WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:04.400 Manero being under attack unite as a community of digital cash believers and 00:05.320 --> 00:07.480 They can't just be on Twitter all day 00:07.480 --> 00:13.260 We actually have to have to come out of our caves a little bit not everybody now recommending that you know 00:13.260 --> 00:18.280 Though it depends on your threat model, but I do think it's important that we come out of our caves a little bit 00:18.280 --> 00:24.740 real meet each other realize how amazing this community is how it's all all very 00:25.640 --> 00:26.160 ethically 00:27.020 --> 00:33.860 Aligned people that are just looking to use money freely and to remind ourselves that we are the good guys 00:34.640 --> 00:41.480 Manero talk is sponsored by cake wallet a trustless open source wallet that gives you the keys to your crypto 00:42.040 --> 00:46.260 invoice donate and trade your manero with peace of mind peace of cake and 00:47.380 --> 00:52.040 By stealthy X an instant exchange where privacy is a top concern 00:52.040 --> 00:56.620 Go to stealthy X that IO to instantly exchange between manero and 00:57.100 --> 01:01.840 450 plus assets without having to create an account or register and with no limits 01:01.840 --> 01:06.680 Making stealthy X a simple way to purchase manero with crypto anonymously 01:08.480 --> 01:14.200 Manero talk is also made possible from contributions by viewers and listeners like you and 01:14.200 --> 01:21.120 Supporting us is easier than ever by typing in manero talk crypto in your manero calm or cake wallet send address field 01:21.120 --> 01:22.340 to send us a tip 01:24.100 --> 01:26.820 This week on manero talk in 01:27.660 --> 01:35.220 This episode Douglas human host a Twitter spaces session with the community concerning manero its current challenges and the upcoming 01:35.220 --> 01:38.000 Manerotopia 24 conference in Mexico City 01:38.520 --> 01:46.340 Doug emphasizes the importance of digital cash the manerotopia event and the need for the manero community to unite in response to an 01:46.340 --> 01:51.560 Adversarial environment notably referencing maneros delisting from Kraken in Europe 01:52.500 --> 02:00.240 Vlad Castea an early Bitcoin or discusses maneros importance in preserving privacy and draws parallels with other privacy 02:00.240 --> 02:07.320 Technologies while Aaron Day talks about his experiences promoting manero and privacy coins in workshops across the US 02:07.320 --> 02:14.500 We also had Tatiana singer songwriter who was a peace and liberty activists join us in addition to many more guests 02:15.500 --> 02:22.840 Various privacy tech projects and philosophical concerns about privacy regulation and technology are explored throughout the spaces 02:23.920 --> 02:29.220 Manero talk starts now. All right. Yeah, it looks like you guys can hear me. Okay. I'm gonna break start bringing up the speakers 02:30.460 --> 02:35.360 Vlad I think I just added you as a co-host. All right. I think we got some people glad what's going on, man 02:35.360 --> 02:42.840 Hi, it's good to be here. Thanks for jumping on appreciate it get a let's see if we get a couple other people to jump up on stage with us 02:42.840 --> 02:43.960 I just wanted to 02:44.720 --> 02:48.000 You know, basically get people excited about manerotopia 02:49.380 --> 02:53.720 We're just literally a well little little more than a month away 02:54.380 --> 02:56.320 It's gonna come really fast 02:56.880 --> 03:01.420 Sunita and I are working our asses off over here trying to finalize things 03:01.960 --> 03:04.240 While juggling our other manero projects 03:05.000 --> 03:08.980 all very fun stuff slightly stressful not gonna lie but 03:09.660 --> 03:11.100 enjoying the ride 03:12.040 --> 03:15.560 And it's it's all that all that good stuff juxtaposed to 03:16.300 --> 03:21.700 Manero being under attack Manero was recently delisted from Kraken in Europe 03:21.700 --> 03:25.240 So I guess I wanted to focus this space around 03:26.340 --> 03:31.840 Number one talking about the environment maneros currently in this adversarial environment 03:31.840 --> 03:39.780 Kind of tying that into why things like manerotopia conference are so important this idea of 03:39.780 --> 03:43.320 You know freedom of assembly getting people together to 03:44.000 --> 03:50.640 Share ideas and to build out a digital cash economy. I think it's very important that we 03:52.200 --> 03:56.780 You know you unite as a community of digital cash believers and 03:57.600 --> 03:59.780 We can't just be on Twitter all day 03:59.780 --> 04:04.260 We actually have to have to come out of our caves a little bit not everybody now 04:04.260 --> 04:07.020 Recommending that you know though it depends on your threat model 04:07.020 --> 04:13.380 But I do think it's important that we come out of our caves a little bit real up meet each other realize how amazing 04:13.380 --> 04:17.020 This community is how it's all all very 04:17.940 --> 04:18.460 ethically 04:19.360 --> 04:26.060 Align people that are just looking to use money freely and to remind ourselves that we are the good guys 04:26.680 --> 04:33.200 So I wanted to get everybody together today to talk about that and to get people psyched about the manerotopia conference 04:33.200 --> 04:40.960 So hopefully maybe spread the word a little further. I do think manero is also under attack in that way in that regard as well 04:40.960 --> 04:44.660 It's not it's not so easy to get the word out about things 04:45.660 --> 04:53.140 I do think there there's some silencing that's going on where you it's it's it's up to us as a community to 04:54.440 --> 04:59.380 Organically promote and spread the word because nobody's gonna be nobody is going to do a force of anything 04:59.380 --> 05:00.520 They're going to try to 05:01.040 --> 05:05.340 The wart our abilities to spread the word about manero so 05:05.860 --> 05:09.280 trying to cover those those base of concept concepts and 05:10.220 --> 05:13.040 Anybody that would like to speak we could bring you up 05:13.040 --> 05:18.220 I'd like to get as many of the speakers as I can up will be put a we invited a few people today 05:18.220 --> 05:20.280 I invited flat and Vlad invited 05:20.860 --> 05:24.260 He will be actually hosting manerotopia invited Aaron 05:24.260 --> 05:29.840 I've put a couple of other invites out there seeing if you get a couple of speakers from the conference to jump up 05:30.520 --> 05:32.860 But yeah, Vlad I guess I'll start with you 05:34.140 --> 05:40.640 What's going on man? What do you what do you think about kind of the the state of manero this adversarial 05:41.280 --> 05:46.020 Adversarial environment are you are you shocked? So are you enjoying the fight? 05:46.640 --> 05:52.200 What's what's your take on the current climate in manero lands? I? 05:52.260 --> 05:59.180 Don't know man. It's nothing that I did not expect. I 05:59.180 --> 06:06.280 met Phil Zimmerman for the second time and I listened to his story and I'm very much aware of what happened to him and 06:06.940 --> 06:12.300 When she launched PGP into the wilds, he published that on the internet. He open sourced it 06:12.940 --> 06:16.120 People were expressing then by people. I mean feds mostly 06:16.120 --> 06:23.500 But they're expressing concern that it's gonna be used by Russians and the enemies from the Cold War and 06:24.560 --> 06:29.160 I think it's pretty much the same scenario that's being played out right now 06:29.820 --> 06:34.280 Except that there isn't only one guy who is gonna be putting up the fight 06:34.780 --> 06:41.440 There's an entire community and there's nothing wrong with privacy. Think about it. Like it's so absurd to expect 06:41.440 --> 06:43.360 The norm to be 06:43.360 --> 06:51.040 Transparent it's I think Phil Zimmerman uses this metaphor of writing your letters as postcards 06:51.040 --> 06:56.700 Instead of putting everything in an envelope and sealing it so that there is some privacy to your message 06:56.700 --> 07:05.420 You just write it on postcards. So everyone who's gonna pass that message along until the receiver is gonna be able to read what you said 07:05.420 --> 07:08.900 So it's ridiculous. I think in modern terms. It's like 07:08.900 --> 07:16.200 Publishing all of your private emails as tweets to people so that everyone can make fun of your 07:16.740 --> 07:19.940 Potentially judge you for whatever it is that you're expressing 07:21.080 --> 07:22.840 Privacy is just part of 07:23.520 --> 07:27.320 What makes a civilization successful and thriving and 07:28.420 --> 07:30.840 We just have to get used to the fact that we can 07:31.440 --> 07:37.420 Create currency by mining get with our computers by respecting some consensus rules 07:37.420 --> 07:42.800 And then we can send it to anyone else around the world and spend it. However, we please 07:43.480 --> 07:46.340 Of course, there's always the risk of the end point 07:46.340 --> 07:51.140 That's going to be spending it physically in the meat space and that's where governments can intervene 07:51.140 --> 07:54.520 Like there's no way you can stop someone from sending money 07:54.520 --> 08:01.720 But if they want to spend their money on something, I mean people say, you know, people use whenever to buy 08:02.640 --> 08:08.080 Guns or whatever in places where it's illegal. I'm like, you know for that gun to get delivered 08:08.080 --> 08:12.040 You need trucks. You need some logistics in place 08:12.040 --> 08:17.680 So why doesn't the government take care of these instead of trying to look at the means? It's very 08:18.640 --> 08:19.600 shallow it's 08:19.600 --> 08:25.580 Sort of the low-hanging fruit that they're trying to hunt by trying to shut down privacy 08:26.840 --> 08:32.140 But it's a fun fight and it's something that I wish to see in Bitcoin 08:32.140 --> 08:37.620 And I'm gonna keep pushing for that and I'm also working on this magazine about privacy 08:37.620 --> 08:41.680 Which will get launched next month at Monerotopia. Hopefully 08:42.300 --> 08:45.680 It's a it's in a pretty good state. I think I'm 08:45.680 --> 08:51.300 Working actively to get everything done on time about five or six articles are ready 08:51.300 --> 08:55.240 I've received about 24 if I'm not mistaken and 08:56.260 --> 09:04.260 They're on the topics of privacy in general some philosophical considerations about how we can build our own country. There's also 09:05.020 --> 09:12.480 Something about Monerot that was written by don't trace me bro. I think he might be here or he might be listening 09:13.200 --> 09:17.280 There's an article about Zeno. There are a couple of articles about Z cash 09:17.280 --> 09:25.660 There's even something about cash fusion on Bitcoin cash. I think it's very diverse and interesting and I'm very 09:26.320 --> 09:30.740 humbled to be in the middle of this operation and be able to 09:31.820 --> 09:33.180 project and 09:33.880 --> 09:41.080 Basically give these messages the larger audience. That's gonna enjoy and hopefully learn something new from everything 09:41.080 --> 09:44.280 That's happening because honestly, it's a 09:44.280 --> 09:50.160 Nice open-source space where everyone is building and everyone is working towards the same goal 09:50.160 --> 09:52.820 but with different means and different tools and 09:53.580 --> 10:00.420 It's always interesting to discover how others are trying to achieve it. Oh 10:00.420 --> 10:06.000 Man you brought up so many amazing things that I want that I would like to get into or respond to 10:06.000 --> 10:12.120 First off Phil Zimmerman, we had him at the first Monerotopia conference in Miami. Well, he was there 10:12.120 --> 10:18.220 He was there virtually. I don't know if you're aware of that, but it was it was it was epic and we had a great 10:18.220 --> 10:19.560 It was basically a Q&A 10:20.240 --> 10:24.780 So everybody was able to everybody was able to ask him questions and you know a lot of the questions that were asked 10:24.780 --> 10:25.640 We're kind of around 10:26.860 --> 10:32.720 What do you think about Monerot and how it's gonna have to handle essentially what you handle the PGP? 10:33.520 --> 10:40.680 What I was unfortunately surprised to hear from Phil Zimmerman at that time was that he had some concerns 10:40.680 --> 10:44.640 With the untraceability of Monerot not in terms of that 10:44.640 --> 10:51.500 It's you know could be traced in any way just this concept of quote-unquote privacy coins that can't be traced 10:51.500 --> 10:56.460 You would think the creator of PGP and our cypher punk would 10:56.460 --> 11:02.900 Would be perfectly alive of narrow not that he wasn't obviously I think he's he loves the concept of digital cash 11:02.900 --> 11:09.620 But for things, you know this idea that it can be used for quote-unquote nefarious purposes like 11:09.620 --> 11:14.620 Avoiding taxes or money laundering or things like that. He had some concerns 11:14.620 --> 11:21.820 He gave it gave us some status status vibes, which was a little a little disheartening coming from 11:22.660 --> 11:26.960 The you know someone that we all look up to so much and I do very much look up to him 11:26.960 --> 11:33.460 You know even even in spite of his viewpoints there is very genuine person and 11:33.460 --> 11:40.760 He singlies and in it for all the right reasons. I see we got Tatiana that just joined us guys 11:41.340 --> 11:44.740 Just you know a reminder. This is this space is all about 11:44.740 --> 11:50.580 Getting people excited for the Monerotopia conference. So we're having some speakers check in 11:50.580 --> 11:56.500 We have Vlad who is gonna be hosting the Monerotopia conference super excited to have Vlad by the way 11:56.500 --> 12:01.820 I think he's the perfect perfect person to be a Monerotopia host 12:02.440 --> 12:08.200 Monerotopia is all about digital cash and building out a digital cash opt-out community and 12:08.800 --> 12:15.640 being open to different technologies that are in this space and I think Vlad has done a great job of 12:15.640 --> 12:19.320 kind of sticking with those principles and exuding those principles and 12:19.840 --> 12:20.320 and 12:20.320 --> 12:22.660 kind of always approaching things from a 12:23.260 --> 12:30.200 Technological and ideological standpoint and isn't any is it isn't religious about any of this stuff. So 12:31.040 --> 12:37.600 Monerotopia is from what I'm told is kind of like what Bitcoin conferences used to be and that's what we that's the theme we 12:37.600 --> 12:38.540 We try to go with 12:39.320 --> 12:45.600 Vlad you had me thinking a bunch of other stuff. So yeah, the Phil Zimmerman thing and you know what maybe maybe maybe I 12:45.600 --> 12:49.940 Will try to reach out to him. Maybe it would be cool to have him remotely again 12:49.940 --> 12:56.320 He he charges he charges quite a bit the first time and I got him to accept Monerot, which is pretty cool 12:57.820 --> 13:02.480 But we actually became quite friendly. So maybe he'd be maybe he'd be down to do it 13:03.280 --> 13:06.980 For a cheap price so we could you know, get him get him back involved 13:08.180 --> 13:09.020 Let me back 13:10.060 --> 13:12.560 Was that what I? 13:12.560 --> 13:16.140 Sent good luck with that because I happen to know I'm not gonna say it publicly 13:16.140 --> 13:19.640 But I know how much the people in Frankfurt paid and it's not 13:20.240 --> 13:25.880 Cheap but it's worth it. I guess because people get to interact with him and he's a very nice person 13:25.880 --> 13:30.280 He doesn't just go and do his keynote and then go back to his hotel 13:30.280 --> 13:35.280 He actually spends time in the hallways and speaks with everyone as the questions 13:35.960 --> 13:39.480 It's just that I know I don't want to get too much in this 13:40.000 --> 13:41.720 Eleanor Roosevelt sort of 13:41.720 --> 13:43.300 Talking about people 13:44.060 --> 13:51.060 Conversation it's just that she gives me the impression that she already fought the fight and maybe that it took a toll on him and 13:51.560 --> 13:53.480 The fact that he is asking us 13:53.480 --> 14:00.280 Basically, what a fed would ask us is just some sort of practice. He's helping us spar 14:00.280 --> 14:05.840 He's a sparring partner. You know, she is trying to make us think a bit about the problems 14:05.840 --> 14:08.400 so that we're able to come up with 14:08.960 --> 14:10.800 actual good answers when 14:10.800 --> 14:16.000 Or if we actually have to defend this that's actually a great way of looking at it and I 14:16.000 --> 14:19.180 Tend to agree with you. I think that's probably probably what his 14:19.180 --> 14:21.040 Where he's coming from on that 14:21.700 --> 14:27.520 I'm super excited about the magazine that you're putting together and that you're launching it at Monero topia 14:27.520 --> 14:32.380 That's really cool. Are you gonna have physical copies that you'll be handing out or selling or? 14:33.280 --> 14:36.720 That we could put in the swag bags. How's that? How's that up working out? 14:37.620 --> 14:43.800 If you can help me with the logistics and you can print some of them then we can definitely have them in the swag bags 14:43.800 --> 14:49.300 I can get it. Yes, we'll definitely not actually travel with them. It's very difficult. They're heavy and 14:50.080 --> 14:52.580 I looked at you make that part of the part of the swag 14:52.580 --> 14:55.480 You know, we could so we can make the part of our swag budget 14:55.480 --> 14:58.100 so helping you with printing those out and 14:58.100 --> 15:03.420 Giving them out because they sound like they'll be an amazing resource. Is there anyone anyone from? 15:03.800 --> 15:07.860 That you know from the magazine that that's written an article or 15:07.860 --> 15:13.160 Topics that you think we should try to get involved last minute here in Monero topia anything but I know okay 15:13.160 --> 15:21.440 I know I asked you this in DM and I'm putting on the spot now, but I actually quite curious what your thoughts are there. I 15:21.440 --> 15:24.160 Have like 24 articles right now and 15:25.020 --> 15:27.580 I'm still waiting for a couple of them. I'm your talk 15:27.580 --> 15:33.700 He said she was gonna send the piece also and Ellie Ben Sasson was one of the people who brought 15:34.580 --> 15:40.680 Zero knowledge proofs into the mainstream. She was part of the Zcash team and now he's working on 15:40.680 --> 15:43.100 something that's called Stark wear and 15:43.940 --> 15:48.280 She also said she was gonna write something. I do have articles from 15:49.140 --> 15:57.440 The electric coin company. I have something from Zeno. It's very hard for me to pick favorites because I went through all of them 15:58.100 --> 16:00.260 I have to say that they're all pretty well written 16:00.260 --> 16:04.840 To help you because I know that your podcast is sponsored by cake wallet 16:04.840 --> 16:12.620 There's also something about cake wallet and their philosophy of bringing privacy in places where it does not exist by default 16:12.620 --> 16:19.960 And the fact that they support silent payments for Bitcoin and M web for like coin and it's pretty cool 16:19.960 --> 16:21.060 It almost yeah 16:21.060 --> 16:26.600 I guess basically what I'm asking is like so obviously we have Zano involved the Zano team will be there 16:26.600 --> 16:29.080 We have dark five so mirror will be there. We have 16:29.940 --> 16:34.980 You know a bunch of other privacy tech projects about but do you think from the out of your articles? 16:35.060 --> 16:37.840 Do you think there's anybody else we should try to get perhaps as a speaker? 16:38.220 --> 16:44.260 Even if remotely to kind of cover cover a hot topic in the privacy tech sector that we might be missing 16:46.540 --> 16:51.800 All there are a couple of articles I really like but I'm not sure of these people want to reveal themselves 16:52.840 --> 16:56.420 Okay, I received some submissions under pseudonyms 16:56.600 --> 17:02.340 And they're fine with it. They don't even know so I proposed to them as a way of 17:03.160 --> 17:10.040 Compensation I guess that they should put a donation address at the end of the article most of them did not and they're not really interested 17:10.040 --> 17:15.800 No, but it it is interesting to see how they benevolently and 17:16.600 --> 17:22.020 They contributed to this project without any expectations other than just getting published 17:25.100 --> 17:32.060 Yeah, so they want to be heard they don't care about money, which I think is a good way to present a project like Monero 17:32.580 --> 17:37.520 They're they're true sector punks are crypto-anarchists, right? They do it for for the love of the game 17:38.080 --> 17:39.280 The love of disruption 17:40.440 --> 17:47.360 Yeah, no, well, we could definitely have you know anonymous remote speakers as well actually have at least one this year that will be 17:48.640 --> 17:49.600 Anonymous remotely 17:50.120 --> 17:55.840 Let me let me spread it around. Let's let's start to get some other people up here as well Aaron. How's it going, man? 17:59.260 --> 18:02.500 It's going well, can you hear me? Yeah, we hear you we hear you 18:03.820 --> 18:09.660 Thanks, thanks for jumping on just trying to do a little little spaces here to help promote copper 18:09.660 --> 18:11.740 It's only a month away and we're talking about 18:12.260 --> 18:17.920 You know, they kind of clerk current climate that Monero is dealing with which is the one that we've all been obviously 18:17.920 --> 18:20.700 effecting and dealing with the ready for some time 18:20.700 --> 18:28.620 But it seems to be getting warmer and warmer in terms of the heat that's being put on on the Monero project and Monero users 18:29.620 --> 18:33.200 So, yeah, what's what's your take man? How are you viewing things right now? 18:33.800 --> 18:38.300 So my take is I mean I've been traveling for the last four weeks doing 18:38.900 --> 18:43.360 Workshop, so I've been in I did one in New Hampshire. I was in Connecticut 18:43.960 --> 18:47.400 I was in DC not for a workshop and then was just in New Jersey 18:48.180 --> 18:54.520 And when I do these workshops the whole purpose is to explain to people what the threat of CBDCs is and 18:55.280 --> 18:59.620 Then to onboard them to privacy coins as a solution 18:59.620 --> 19:06.260 So when I do these workshops, everybody gets a Zeno wallet and some Zeno and a cake cake wallet and some Monero 19:06.260 --> 19:08.980 And then I show them how I live on crypto 19:09.560 --> 19:11.400 Golden silver which I've been doing since 19:12.180 --> 19:18.020 2019 and the thing is my audience is and this is something that I'd love to talk about 19:19.140 --> 19:23.120 Adminaritopia we really need to cross the chasm here. There are categories 19:24.240 --> 19:31.640 Groups whether it's health freedom people food freedom people second amendment people people that were radicalized by COVID people that were 19:31.640 --> 19:33.760 are now radicalized by 19:34.660 --> 19:40.460 Inflation and starting to ask what the Federal Reserve is who are open to the idea that 19:41.700 --> 19:45.820 We need an alternative that we're not going to vote our way out. We're not going to fix the Federal Reserve 19:45.820 --> 19:48.920 and which is part of my presentation that is that 19:49.540 --> 19:54.240 eight-based money never works it has a zero percent success rate and 19:54.800 --> 19:56.300 There are a couple of things 19:56.860 --> 20:00.040 that are interesting and shocking to 20:00.040 --> 20:03.320 The audience one is the fact that 20:03.320 --> 20:09.600 Bitcoin is not anonymous and that it can be trapped and has been trapped and that people like 20:09.600 --> 20:13.200 Ross Olberg Ian Freeman and Roger veer and others are 20:13.800 --> 20:17.260 kind of on the other side of this and so 20:17.800 --> 20:23.540 Bitcoin is not the answer to CBCC's and then obviously I am now only 20:23.540 --> 20:25.840 promoting privacy coins and 20:26.440 --> 20:31.520 There's an interesting dynamic going on which is that older people 20:32.300 --> 20:34.160 Understand the value of privacy 20:35.300 --> 20:38.980 They understand I mean that you know some of the readings familiar with the fourth amendment 20:38.980 --> 20:43.300 Some of them are aware of you know the idea that privacy is an inherent right 20:44.000 --> 20:47.500 But then you look at these statistics feel like this 20:48.160 --> 20:52.280 Cato poll that shows that 35 I believe of gen z 20:53.080 --> 20:59.220 Are okay with the federal government installing security cameras in the home to monitor for domestic violence 20:59.220 --> 21:00.120 So we have this 21:00.660 --> 21:04.080 problem of younger people that are more facile with tech 21:04.080 --> 21:08.040 Don't value privacy and older people who understand privacy 21:08.040 --> 21:13.780 Are less sophisticated with the tech and so that's kind of the state of where we're at 21:13.780 --> 21:20.740 Unfortunately cake pay or excuse me cake while it is is easy enough. So we really are on boarding people and I'm 21:21.580 --> 21:26.560 I'm grateful for that people are actually really excited about that, but we need to figure out how to market 21:27.140 --> 21:28.220 the fact that 21:29.220 --> 21:31.300 Privacy is for everyone and 21:31.960 --> 21:37.900 And these groups food freedom and all of the groups and merchant categories that were targeted by operation choke point 21:38.440 --> 21:43.700 And all of the people who have already been debanked these people are are right for us 21:43.700 --> 21:46.160 And we should be focusing on aggregating them 21:46.860 --> 21:50.840 and building easy to use point of sale systems and 21:51.540 --> 21:56.300 wallets because there really is demand and it's not the demand that might have been there 21:56.300 --> 21:59.580 Say seven years ago, but we also need to figure out how to sell 22:00.400 --> 22:03.940 Privacy because basically, you know, the government likes to 22:04.820 --> 22:08.580 Portray that if you're using a privacy coin, you must be involved in money wandering 22:09.180 --> 22:15.240 Or terrorism and of course we all know that it's governments and state actors using fiat currency 22:15.820 --> 22:18.440 That are actually engaged in these activities 22:18.440 --> 22:21.340 But I think that there's something to be said about letting people know that 22:21.340 --> 22:27.500 What's the dark market today? What they're doing today will be the dark market tomorrow because that is 22:28.300 --> 22:29.260 Clearly the direction 22:30.100 --> 22:34.300 Technocracy is going it either whether it's banning gas stoves 22:34.300 --> 22:38.280 Banning your ability to buy meat banning your ability to buy raw milk 22:38.280 --> 22:43.680 Things that people take advantage of today that are legal will very soon be illegal 22:43.680 --> 22:48.900 And so people should really get on board and we should try to work together on messaging because there's a 22:48.900 --> 22:52.860 A real wide audience out there that I think will be receptive to it 22:54.500 --> 22:58.860 All amazing points man, uh, totally agree with you there 22:59.460 --> 23:05.820 Very exciting that you've been hitting the streets with this and traveling around and talking to different groups 23:07.160 --> 23:11.780 Um, we'll give give some give us some more details about that like where is that where are you going? 23:11.980 --> 23:14.720 I mean are you rolling into town and uh, 23:14.720 --> 23:19.640 You know what what groups are you even tapping into when you when you're rolling to these different places? 23:20.160 --> 23:24.700 So I was at chris, uh, chris martinson if you're familiar with him peak prosperity 23:24.700 --> 23:25.980 I was actually at his 23:25.980 --> 23:30.480 His event that he had 300 people at he actually gave me it was the only person to have two 23:31.040 --> 23:35.520 Block so I had two and a half hours to speak to his audience of his audience 23:35.520 --> 23:37.540 These are diehard people that are already 23:38.020 --> 23:42.820 Looking for alternative currencies already looking at buying farmland. I mean this is actually 23:42.820 --> 23:46.780 A great demographic of people but they trend older 23:47.220 --> 23:50.240 And so like I so the weirdest experience that I had 23:50.240 --> 23:55.840 Was trying to onboard somebody that was probably in their late 60s early 70s 23:55.840 --> 23:58.000 That did have a de-googled phone 23:58.000 --> 24:03.020 Which was interesting but struggled with just the basic setup of a wallet 24:03.020 --> 24:07.460 And going through and understanding what seed praises are and and even how to like 24:08.000 --> 24:09.840 paste an address into a 24:10.390 --> 24:12.580 Web form to receive, you know 24:13.300 --> 24:18.020 Zato or mineral kind of on an automatic basis like that was that that was a little bit of a 24:18.490 --> 24:20.220 A loop for me and so 24:20.960 --> 24:22.400 but that actual 24:23.120 --> 24:27.440 Event went well and in fact i'm going to do an extended online course 24:28.020 --> 24:31.100 For all of the thousands of people that are part of the peak 24:31.760 --> 24:33.540 prosperity community so this so 24:34.660 --> 24:37.000 We're going to be expanding from 24:37.520 --> 24:41.840 That workshop so i'm excited about this because this is going to give us the ability to reach 24:42.480 --> 24:47.820 Thousands of people with longer form content and to go through all of the explanations 24:48.720 --> 24:54.440 You know the the Connecticut the Connecticut event was a was a brownstone event the dc event 24:54.440 --> 24:58.460 Which I think you shared my speech there was no workshop there. That was just me basically 24:59.040 --> 25:01.360 Telling people to ditch that you know it was an anti-war 25:02.040 --> 25:04.660 Rage against the war machine event and my whole pitch was 25:05.160 --> 25:10.400 You know don't don't tell me you're against war and then use the dollar on a daily basis 25:11.040 --> 25:14.700 And so my whole pitch was ditch the dollar and I promoted 25:15.720 --> 25:20.460 Zeno and minero as being the solution to that and then last week weekend 25:20.460 --> 25:21.340 I was in New Jersey 25:22.060 --> 25:27.400 And this was one of my workshops so I so sometimes I do a workshop within a larger event 25:28.180 --> 25:32.200 And then other times we actually put together the event ourselves and so we have 25:32.740 --> 25:37.680 20 volunteers all around the country that are helping us find local groups 25:37.680 --> 25:41.120 So like when we're in New Jersey, we had probably a dozen groups 25:41.800 --> 25:45.060 Sponsoring that so we had health freedom groups libertarian groups 25:45.640 --> 25:48.420 And other kind of related groups gun groups 25:49.080 --> 25:51.400 Uh, it's like we had a uh gold and silver 25:51.960 --> 25:58.940 Uh merchants we had just sponsoring and basically all of their members did a discounted coupon to the event 25:58.940 --> 26:00.640 So that's how we're aggregating people 26:01.340 --> 26:02.480 for my events 26:03.080 --> 26:05.240 and uh, and you know, it went 26:05.980 --> 26:07.120 It went incredibly well 26:07.120 --> 26:12.780 I mean some of the feedback that I got was you know, even there was a libertarian guy who's a boomer who who actually 26:13.540 --> 26:21.280 Went to the libertarian party national meeting on sunday and said they should stop focusing on getting candidates elected and start focusing on 26:21.820 --> 26:22.820 pushing people to 26:23.420 --> 26:24.360 do these workshops 26:24.880 --> 26:29.440 Across the country and adopting private sound money. So 26:30.240 --> 26:34.200 And and I think it was the fact that the workshops demystify crypto 26:34.900 --> 26:39.240 And on board people using cake wallet, which actually is something that's easy 26:39.760 --> 26:43.980 For everybody to understand. So that's that's basically how this is going and we're scheduling 26:44.920 --> 26:46.960 I'm only going to do about one of these a month 26:47.480 --> 26:53.720 Just because there's a lot of my own events and so I'm actually going to wait until probably the beginning of the year 26:54.360 --> 26:56.320 To pick back up and start doing these 26:56.320 --> 27:00.580 Uh, because I want to have you know, some of the integrations that I know that are happening with cake wall 27:00.580 --> 27:02.200 I want to be able to basically 27:02.900 --> 27:06.920 Not only sign up individuals to begin using crypto 27:07.620 --> 27:11.880 But also be able to onboard merchants in another breakout session 27:11.880 --> 27:16.780 To be able to receive crypto and my goal would be at the end of the workshop to have people that have been newly 27:16.780 --> 27:17.780 Onboarded to crypto 27:18.500 --> 27:25.020 Buying things from merchants who have been newly onboarded to crypto is a way to really accelerate this because we want to get to 27:25.020 --> 27:28.520 Direct peer-to-peer transactions and the biggest bottleneck right now 27:28.980 --> 27:31.660 Is point-of-sale system hand out hands down 27:32.380 --> 27:37.740 So, uh, yeah, I love I love that that did the um the hackathon at monarotopia 27:38.580 --> 27:39.260 will be 27:39.780 --> 27:41.280 Uh focused on that 27:42.080 --> 27:45.120 Trying to improve basically a point of sales 27:45.900 --> 27:46.500 um 27:47.280 --> 27:53.420 Particularly looking or specifically looking at btc pay server and trying to improve its in a mineral implementation 27:54.320 --> 27:54.820 um 27:55.380 --> 28:00.280 But yeah, I think you're you're dead on man. You get you got a you got a good, uh 28:00.800 --> 28:03.720 I don't know you got a a good eye for these things a good 28:03.720 --> 28:10.220 Understanding of what's going on and your your boots on the ground. I think uh, you're an impressive individual man 28:10.760 --> 28:11.260 um 28:11.260 --> 28:16.820 What what it's like some of the the feedback I mean you kind of said in one way or the other but 28:16.820 --> 28:23.400 What is some of the feedback you're getting like what are people's concerns about when you tell them about manero and zado 28:23.400 --> 28:25.100 These people that are a little bit older 28:25.680 --> 28:29.420 Obviously, you're seeing they kind of fumble around and not really being able to use the tech too well 28:29.420 --> 28:32.060 But what are there? What are the concerns that they're voicing? 28:32.960 --> 28:34.020 Or that has it well, I mean 28:34.020 --> 28:39.100 Well, so part of the issue is that I mean there's a four hour workshop the full one that I do and I tell people 28:39.100 --> 28:43.800 Why I'm doing this and how I got here and you know, I tell people I have friends that are in prison 28:44.320 --> 28:48.520 Uh for doing this and a lot of people's you know responses won't see that's that's scary 28:48.520 --> 28:54.720 Do I want to get involved in this and you know to which my answer is you know, I lead in with what cbdc's are 28:54.720 --> 28:57.400 by the way, we already have a cbdc and I'm trying to 28:58.440 --> 28:58.880 reframe 28:59.500 --> 29:04.000 How we even look at and define cbdc's I mean the dollar today 29:04.600 --> 29:09.520 The government issues in iou to the federal reserve the federal reserve it creates money in an oracle database 29:09.520 --> 29:13.080 And that is a central bank digital currency. Yes, we also have commercial banks 29:13.680 --> 29:15.740 That have their own microsoft and oracle databases 29:15.740 --> 29:17.040 But at the end of the day 29:17.040 --> 29:20.840 We have a central bank digital currency and it's now just a measure of 29:21.300 --> 29:27.700 The level of tyranny and so the way that I frame privacy coins is this and by the way, we already have programmable money 29:28.280 --> 29:32.200 We already have surveillable money. There are i've identified 13 different ways 29:32.740 --> 29:37.980 In the united states that our money is being surveilled and I'll just give you three quickly 29:38.760 --> 29:41.120 One is nsa bulk data collection 29:41.880 --> 29:43.700 Another is irs 29:44.400 --> 29:47.440 collection of information working directly with banks using ai 29:48.080 --> 29:52.400 And the third is this concept of a national security letter where they can go in 29:53.080 --> 29:57.100 Seize your bank account and you can't talk to anybody about it including a lawyer 29:57.940 --> 30:00.560 So this is this is the state of the world 30:00.560 --> 30:02.520 Today with our digital money 30:03.040 --> 30:06.860 It can get worse. We have this project hamilton thing that was 30:06.860 --> 30:09.640 a development between mit and 30:10.300 --> 30:10.780 um 30:10.780 --> 30:15.800 The federal reserve bank of york with some bitcoin core developers involved and and it does get worse 30:16.440 --> 30:19.460 From there and so I've put together this little tyranny index 30:20.140 --> 30:23.360 And part of as you escalate on the tyranny index 30:23.920 --> 30:29.440 The ultimate end goal of this is a global digital currency single global digital currency backed by energy credits 30:29.440 --> 30:33.520 where cash is banned and crypto is banned and 30:33.520 --> 30:37.400 I explained to people in the context of this just as there's a tyranny index 30:38.000 --> 30:40.960 There's a freedom index while we would love to get to 30:41.680 --> 30:45.240 everybody using peer-to-peer privacy coins 30:46.340 --> 30:51.160 Directly without any third party intermediaries. We're not going to get there directly even me 30:51.160 --> 30:54.800 I mean, you know, I live on crypto, but if I'm in new hampshire 30:55.640 --> 31:03.220 Oftentimes I can buy things directly from merchants using crypto, but a lot of times I have to use gift cards or I have to use 31:04.200 --> 31:08.800 Demet cards, which is not a true peer-to-peer solution. It's kind of a continuum 31:09.240 --> 31:12.920 So we're kind of working up on the freedom continuum trying to get the peer-to-peer 31:12.920 --> 31:15.100 And they're working on this tyranny index 31:15.100 --> 31:21.060 Trying to get to the single thing tied to social credit scores and this complete dystopian kind of loss of free will 31:21.160 --> 31:23.040 and so framed in that way 31:23.800 --> 31:24.940 they understand why 31:25.560 --> 31:26.500 privacy is important 31:27.240 --> 31:29.660 and also why governments are 31:30.280 --> 31:34.760 uh, tackling and I do address very head-on because it frustrates me 31:35.420 --> 31:38.340 On this like because I think this whole election 31:39.080 --> 31:42.320 There are a lot of people like oh, yeah trump said a lot of great things on crypto 31:42.920 --> 31:45.860 There's nothing good about the legislation 31:46.380 --> 31:51.900 That has been drafted by the republicans in the house from the perspectives of privacy 31:52.660 --> 31:56.280 Or self-custody all of the bills, especially these loomis bills 31:56.920 --> 32:01.180 They do things like bad algorithmic stable coins. They basically put in criteria 32:02.080 --> 32:05.580 That will make it so that tether and usdc kind of 32:05.580 --> 32:13.060 Go away hand stable coins to the largest banks. It gives more custody and control to banks. It adds more 32:13.620 --> 32:17.720 Reporting and democrats and republicans alike are both 32:18.340 --> 32:21.480 cheerleading on this whole money laundering 32:22.000 --> 32:23.040 and drug trafficking 32:23.940 --> 32:29.440 Angle so lucia lumis the republican from wyoming has stated flat out. She doesn't like privacy coins 32:29.440 --> 32:32.680 She only likes transparent ledgers. So there is no 32:33.540 --> 32:38.080 Solution in front of us whatsoever regardless of who wins 32:38.820 --> 32:43.880 That promotes privacy coins or that promotes any alternatives to cvdc 32:44.480 --> 32:50.640 And republicans and democrats have different ways of going about doing it. The democrats want to give more control 32:51.360 --> 32:54.020 To the central bank, but you still have commercial banks 32:54.640 --> 32:56.640 Whereas the republicans want to get the banks 32:57.220 --> 32:59.400 more control over stable coins, but in the end 32:59.400 --> 33:00.660 and you know 33:01.360 --> 33:06.900 JP Morgan issuing a programmable stable coin is the same as the cvdc from all practical 33:08.360 --> 33:09.240 Intent given 33:09.980 --> 33:13.380 What it means for the user in terms of freedom? So 33:13.960 --> 33:19.720 So I lay all that out in the workshops and so that kind of gives them an understanding now that word becomes challenging 33:20.500 --> 33:21.980 Is we get to the practical 33:22.860 --> 33:28.300 Aspect of this which is I sent people up with these wallets and then the next question is well, where do I buy more? 33:28.820 --> 33:33.460 How do I get more and that's that so there's I actually spend a lot of time 33:34.080 --> 33:38.920 Walking people through it. I don't want to dominate all this, but I'll say there's another part to this which is 33:39.670 --> 33:46.040 Part of why I'm so interested in in zato in addition to manero, which is you have you know 33:47.320 --> 33:49.920 So cvdcs are basically tokenized money 33:50.480 --> 33:54.660 But they are working to tokenize all non-monetary assets 33:55.390 --> 33:57.540 As well. So the same people that are pushing this 33:58.440 --> 34:00.800 centralization agenda want to 34:01.500 --> 34:03.180 tokenize stocks bonds 34:03.180 --> 34:05.140 real estate and everything else 34:05.530 --> 34:12.500 And put it on a common ledger tied to cvdcs and interestingly enough that the guy who's the head of the platform 34:13.090 --> 34:14.900 Development so that is my perg 34:14.900 --> 34:17.700 bitcoin court of early bitcoin core 34:18.310 --> 34:21.840 Developer, but they basically want to be able to have complete centralized control 34:22.570 --> 34:23.500 over all 34:23.500 --> 34:25.380 global assets and so 34:25.890 --> 34:27.800 So zeno allows you to tokenize 34:28.610 --> 34:30.260 assets non-monetary assets 34:30.800 --> 34:32.520 In addition to having 34:33.040 --> 34:39.440 A privacy currency that is a a solution to the great reset of a great taking or whatever it is 34:39.440 --> 34:43.880 Then you want to call it so I frame all of this in these workshops and and 34:44.460 --> 34:50.520 I see this because they're particularly with older people going back to this issue of so boomers have all the money 34:51.100 --> 34:53.540 But they don't have the technical prowess the younger people have 34:54.140 --> 34:57.480 the technical experience but not the understanding or the interest in privacy 34:58.080 --> 35:00.140 but if you understand that 35:00.800 --> 35:02.820 Through this concept called the great taking 35:03.660 --> 35:08.780 They the financial giants have basically changed all the contractual relationships 35:09.480 --> 35:13.620 So that we don't really own our stocks or our bonds or our 401ks 35:14.160 --> 35:18.280 So in the event of a large financial collapse and there's a bankruptcy 35:18.860 --> 35:24.520 We won't actually own those shares. They will go to the secured creditors, which are essentially the four largest banks 35:25.300 --> 35:27.000 in the us and so 35:27.440 --> 35:30.180 Once you explain that there are a lot of people that are like, okay 35:30.940 --> 35:33.560 They're I feel especially if they're over 59 and a half 35:33.560 --> 35:37.400 They want to sell some of their 401k and maybe buy some privacy 35:37.400 --> 35:41.320 Is it breaking up for for other people or is that just me right now? 35:43.560 --> 35:46.740 It's just you I hear i'm okay 35:51.040 --> 35:51.800 Okay, so 35:52.380 --> 35:54.580 So anyway, they say they initiate the process 35:54.580 --> 36:01.460 They want to sell some of their 401k and buy privacy coins and so in essence here's essentially the obstacles and what's going on 36:02.200 --> 36:07.720 You sell part of your 401k. It takes three weeks to get a check from fidelity or black rock or vanguard 36:07.720 --> 36:11.720 whoever it is then you have to deposit that check then you have to 36:12.720 --> 36:17.440 Send that to a you have to set it out with an exchange you go through all of that set up move those funds 36:17.440 --> 36:21.060 So it takes a month from the time somebody says 36:21.720 --> 36:24.960 Yes, I want to sell some of my 401k and get into privacy coins 36:24.960 --> 36:30.700 For that transaction to actually be able to take place and it involves at least three probably four steps 36:31.360 --> 36:34.560 And so and none of that is going easier from perspective 36:34.560 --> 36:38.860 So i'm just i'm saying this just in the sense of there are actually now a lot of people 36:39.460 --> 36:42.100 looking at privacy coins as kind of a 36:43.100 --> 36:45.240 A store of value to start 36:45.720 --> 36:49.820 But with the understanding it's something that you know eventually they'll need to use 36:50.320 --> 36:51.680 As as cash 36:54.360 --> 37:01.040 All right, I actually had a switch to the minaretopia account. I don't know for some reason I hear you start cutting out 37:01.600 --> 37:06.260 Uh, but yeah, you cover kind kind of stuff there all all amazing thing 37:07.160 --> 37:11.360 Um, let me try to get some other people up here. I see tatiana 37:12.360 --> 37:17.780 Uh, hey guys tatiana. What's going on? I'm good. Thanks. How are you good topics in here? 37:17.780 --> 37:20.900 I feel like everybody's uh a little bit more in the weeds than I am 37:21.340 --> 37:25.240 I'm just here to sing a siren song and lure people into privacy 37:25.980 --> 37:31.500 Well, that's that's important too. Um, I guess I guess while we have the upper first question are 37:31.500 --> 37:35.580 Are you attending minaretopia? Is it is it happening? Are we gonna have you down there? 37:36.080 --> 37:39.820 I'm not just attending. I'm gonna rock for you guys. I already found a guitar 37:40.240 --> 37:44.420 I didn't want to travel with a guitar because I've got to come in from Buenos Aires 37:44.980 --> 37:49.020 And um, when you do like a bunch of flights, they charge you each time for the guitar 37:49.020 --> 37:50.160 So I found one locally 37:50.800 --> 37:55.560 Uh from a dear friend of mine. And so yeah, I'm gonna be performing and hopefully learning some stuff 37:56.080 --> 38:00.600 Um excited to see vlad. I haven't seen him since prog I think and and some of the other folks 38:00.600 --> 38:05.680 Um, Aaron, I just saw a couple weeks ago. But um, there's a lot of cool people coming for sure 38:05.680 --> 38:09.900 I'm a big fan of emir toky. I always have been especially since I saw him 38:09.900 --> 38:13.260 You know when I when I saw the opening of the film deep web 38:13.900 --> 38:19.540 And he's like the darkness. It's like the best spookiest opening speech thing in the world. So 38:20.020 --> 38:24.000 Um, always good to hear him speak and um, yeah, I don't know 38:24.000 --> 38:27.600 Like this is a super important thing that we're going to be facing in the future 38:28.220 --> 38:32.720 I love bitcoin, but obviously there's a lot of challenges around that right now in terms of privacy 38:33.400 --> 38:36.780 Um, I didn't know about some of those concerns regarding 38:36.780 --> 38:39.100 Um, uh senator lumens 38:39.100 --> 38:40.040 um 38:40.660 --> 38:42.980 I mean do you guys ever have like a 38:43.500 --> 38:45.180 Kind of an outreach to those? 38:45.380 --> 38:51.560 Uh government kind of like for example, um digital chamber parianse organization, right? They're going and lobbying 38:52.540 --> 38:57.060 Um, you know, I'm not the biggest fan of going to government and asking for permission 38:57.060 --> 38:57.440 but 38:57.980 --> 39:01.440 If they're making rules, I do like to have people from our industry 39:02.380 --> 39:07.780 Representing um the community's perspective. Do you feel like there's been an effort to 39:08.260 --> 39:11.540 Explain the value of privacy to government people? 39:11.740 --> 39:14.540 I mean like it's sort of silly because no, they don't want that's like asking you like 39:14.540 --> 39:19.880 Oh, have you told the slave master that slavery sucks? You know, um, but like how's that been a thing? 39:20.660 --> 39:25.220 Well, as it has a coin center has done some good work in that area 39:26.260 --> 39:26.700 um 39:27.180 --> 39:32.720 You know often when they do it though, they avoid using the m word manero. I don't I don't know why 39:33.500 --> 39:37.640 Um, but point center has done some great work. They put out a great paper 39:37.640 --> 39:40.720 essentially as to why digital cash matters 39:40.720 --> 39:43.740 You know why why people should have the 39:43.740 --> 39:47.540 To essentially transact privately here to peer 39:47.540 --> 39:52.400 So they they have done some good work in that area, but I would say like manero as a community 39:53.200 --> 39:58.240 Uh, isn't made really doing the best job and maybe because I think uh, a lot of 39:58.240 --> 40:05.240 You know a lot of people a lot of people are so cypherpunk or crypto Atticus and point where they don't really see a 40:05.840 --> 40:11.620 You know a point in trying to deal with the powers that be through 40:12.320 --> 40:18.500 The you know established system, but rather all goal being build something that's unstoppable. So I think 40:19.260 --> 40:24.320 That aspect of the manero culture has kind of kept people, you know 40:24.320 --> 40:27.140 prevented or kept people away from 40:27.720 --> 40:29.760 Uh, trying to trying to lobby 40:30.380 --> 40:35.720 I mean, I hear that I don't want to beg for permission either. So I'm not faulting that I was more curious 40:36.230 --> 40:42.200 There's there's value there in that approach. I mean, I read I had mentioned to you that I read for congress here in New York in 2020 40:42.200 --> 40:45.800 So I'm not completely opposed to trying to go down those roads 40:46.460 --> 40:53.040 Although I learned a lot doing it that you know, saw how the sausage got made so to speak again, probably 40:53.040 --> 40:58.540 Uh less enthusiastic about that approach. That's when I first attempted to run 40:59.080 --> 41:04.800 Uh, I think I think it's you know, we could get we could get so much out of just simply 41:05.320 --> 41:07.940 Simply just ignore completely ignoring them 41:08.580 --> 41:12.560 Uh and building out our own economy, right? We have all the tools 41:12.560 --> 41:17.320 We have the ability to come together digitally through all these different platforms 41:17.320 --> 41:24.440 And then we have manero, which works beautifully as untraceable digital cash like all everything is there 41:25.000 --> 41:26.320 we just need to 41:27.100 --> 41:29.860 Ignore the powers that be not comply 41:30.560 --> 41:34.580 And just build out our own economy and start using it among each other obviously 41:34.580 --> 41:38.820 But I do totally agree with you that out, you know, trying to lobby would be nice 41:39.380 --> 41:45.820 Uh before all the reasons uh Aaron is saying it's like what are you even lobbying to right? Yeah, it's coke and Pepsi 41:46.360 --> 41:46.840 um 41:47.380 --> 41:53.980 You know, whether whether we get trump or we get kamala or it's this senator or that congressman or a few outliers 41:53.980 --> 41:58.540 There's like a few super principled people in congress 41:59.420 --> 42:04.340 Uh, that would that would probably be you know, I'll very much align with what we're doing 42:04.340 --> 42:06.520 Yeah, they skip the diddy parties those people 42:09.540 --> 42:13.420 Meaning I'm I'm in I'm saying that they probably have like blackmail on the others 42:14.740 --> 42:19.880 Yeah, yeah, so you know what I'm saying. I mean, it's just like is it even worth attempting to 42:20.500 --> 42:23.160 You know to lobby to these people and get them to I mean 42:23.160 --> 42:29.520 I guess in some ways the best way to do it is to do it in a way where they feel like they're they're gaining some 42:29.520 --> 42:32.720 advantage by dealing with us and kind of using them 42:33.500 --> 42:35.660 Rather than allowing them to use us 42:35.660 --> 42:40.020 Maybe there's some things that can be done in that respect. I mean, that's not my approach 42:40.020 --> 42:45.660 I just think that somebody else doing him is not necessarily a bad thing when I found very off putting this year 42:46.160 --> 42:51.460 Was seeing how many people are so interested in the political process like 42:51.920 --> 42:56.800 Look, although for trump, whatever. I don't believe voting's real. I think it's all a joke. Um, 42:56.820 --> 42:59.820 And you know, I mean it's like a joke to me completely 42:59.820 --> 43:04.700 However, I'll pull my little lever to get ross. I'll brick free and I know it's all bs 43:04.700 --> 43:12.120 But you know, I was at um an anti-war rally. I think it was last weekend or the weekend before and we were in dc 43:12.120 --> 43:12.840 and 43:13.460 --> 43:18.040 It was jordan peterson rustle bran rfk tulsi gabard 43:18.040 --> 43:20.560 Jimmy door all the rock stars of 43:21.180 --> 43:26.000 You know alternative media. I mean they're they're all statists, right? But at the end of the day 43:26.620 --> 43:30.560 They were expecting a hundred thousand people and they had maybe two thousand 43:31.300 --> 43:34.740 On the other hand when you see people and the anti-war rally, I mean 43:34.740 --> 43:38.680 I was very proud to be a part of that. I admire the people who put it together 43:38.680 --> 43:41.460 But in terms of the audience, I mean it was like a hundred people there 43:41.460 --> 43:45.000 I think that people are still totally drinking the kool-aid 43:45.000 --> 43:50.540 And it's very annoying because we have to kind of live in a world with people who are still begging for masters 43:51.120 --> 43:56.660 And I think that that's really kind of you know part of the challenge probably the biggest part of the challenge 43:57.300 --> 44:01.260 Building these other ecosystems while everybody is you know 44:02.880 --> 44:08.420 Up kamala and trumps took us like okay. Well, that's that's you know, we have to do in the meantime 44:08.420 --> 44:09.860 And I think that we are 44:09.860 --> 44:14.880 I don't know. I feel like we're heading for something really kind of disastrous. So I'm all about 44:15.540 --> 44:16.980 setting these kinds of 44:16.980 --> 44:19.480 Kind of communities up in advance 44:20.060 --> 44:24.880 Um, I saw a headline and I didn't get a chance to follow it and maybe somebody here can tell me 44:24.880 --> 44:30.520 I saw that chain analysis has broken the Monero privacy. Is that true or did anybody hear that? 44:31.280 --> 44:34.100 Well, I did I read that so you definitely heard that 44:34.640 --> 44:36.240 Um, we did we did a whole show 44:38.080 --> 44:45.600 What's the TLDR the the TLDR is that Monero has always had 44:46.440 --> 44:53.200 Um, you know attack vectors, right? So Monero prevents mass surveillance 44:53.880 --> 45:00.780 Uh, it's it's no no no, there's no there's no easy way to mass mass surveil Monero transactions 45:00.780 --> 45:02.580 And it does that very effectively 45:03.280 --> 45:09.180 Uh, there are ways to pinpoint attack individuals and if you have enough resources 45:09.740 --> 45:13.120 You could take advantages of some of the weaknesses of Monero 45:13.120 --> 45:20.340 And really use data outside of Monero to try to figure out who's sending what to whom similar to like what you can do with 45:20.340 --> 45:21.120 Cash, right? 45:22.020 --> 45:23.720 Um, there's things you could do on the outside 45:24.420 --> 45:29.080 Uh, so yeah TLDR is chain analysis has 45:29.620 --> 45:31.760 uh taken advantage of 45:32.480 --> 45:37.340 Moneros the weaknesses in Monero's ring signatures, which have always been well known 45:38.140 --> 45:40.920 It's openly spoke about in the Monero community 45:41.420 --> 45:45.540 Which is why Monero actually is upgrading to full chain membership proofs 45:45.540 --> 45:48.480 That'll be a big topic of the Monero conference. We have Luke Parker 45:49.160 --> 45:52.500 Who is the genius developer behind that we'll be 45:53.280 --> 45:55.060 Presenting a Monero topi on that 45:55.740 --> 46:01.000 But yeah ring signatures, which is only once which is one small aspect of Monero 46:01.920 --> 46:05.040 does have you know, there there is a way to 46:06.000 --> 46:13.440 Probabilistically using data outside of Monero to kind of make guesses as to who out the true sender 46:13.440 --> 46:15.180 of Monero may be 46:15.800 --> 46:20.360 And chain analysis was is attempting to use those flaws to its advantage 46:21.060 --> 46:29.020 But ultimately there really is not much of anything they can do and the the weaknesses that they claim to be using are very much 46:29.580 --> 46:31.680 Known in the Monero community have been known 46:32.300 --> 46:38.220 And uh, we'll actually completely disappear soon. And I don't know how those guys sleep at night 46:38.220 --> 46:41.920 I really don't have anistic way to trace Monero 46:43.400 --> 46:49.280 Well, that's a that's a good education for me too because I was I saw that and I was like, I don't look at this because that didn't sound right 46:49.280 --> 46:56.860 Yeah, a lot a lot of fun a lot of fun. And uh, you know chain analysis company is trying to make money selling selling their selling their tools 46:57.800 --> 47:02.020 Um, but actually if you listen to the presentation that that leaked 47:02.620 --> 47:09.280 It's a major endorsement from Monero actually given by the person who's giving the presentation from chain analysis 47:09.280 --> 47:16.680 And he's just talking about how amazing Monero functions as a technology paired to bitcoin in terms of its untraceability 47:17.680 --> 47:22.340 Um, and it's you know, it is the best known tool for digital cash purposes 47:22.340 --> 47:26.580 Yet here are some things we may be able to do given enough resources 47:26.580 --> 47:31.700 If we want to do a pinpoint attack on trying to uh, trace people's transactions 47:31.700 --> 47:34.520 That's that's the the long and short of it 47:35.080 --> 47:41.940 Um, I do want to say uh, you know Tatiana, I'm very excited that you'll be coming down to Monero topi 47:41.940 --> 47:46.180 I think it's like a a strong indication that we you know 47:46.180 --> 47:53.380 The Monero conference itself is is doing something right and that the Monero project itself is doing something right because it's attracting 47:53.960 --> 48:00.780 Uh principal people libertarians like yourself that have been in this game a very long time for all the right reasons 48:00.780 --> 48:01.900 I say that because I 48:01.900 --> 48:06.180 You know followed you throughout the years. I know you're not just some slide by the night 48:07.460 --> 48:12.560 You know, I don't know basically basically basically some scammer, right? There's a there's a lot of 48:13.600 --> 48:16.660 Well, I do have a shit coin according to some people 48:16.660 --> 48:21.080 So I could be an original shit coin or with Tatiana coin, but I don't think of it that way 48:21.080 --> 48:27.120 I'm just joking. I think that was the og meme coin honestly. Yeah. Yeah the first art is coin 48:27.120 --> 48:33.720 So that was built on counterparty. So it's kind of uh, interesting to see all the people meaning now and stuff like that, but 48:34.240 --> 48:40.420 Either way or two like that the the liberty grifters, right? There's a lot of liberty grifters out there these days people that 48:41.120 --> 48:45.060 Take an advantage of the fact that there is kind of this mass awakening 48:45.540 --> 48:47.320 And they're they're all of a sudden 48:47.980 --> 48:54.340 People out there that are acting like they're they're all pro liberty this that I think you you name some of the names 48:54.340 --> 48:56.640 that were speakers at the event that you're at 48:57.120 --> 49:00.440 And you are definitely not one of them. So it's super excited 49:00.440 --> 49:05.380 I think it's it's great signal to see that you're interested in manero and the manero topea powers 49:05.380 --> 49:08.300 Well, I I found manero for a while not like a lot 49:08.300 --> 49:12.880 But in general that was one of the coins that I have always respected and I remember 49:12.880 --> 49:15.660 I don't even remember who it was that I met from the team 49:15.660 --> 49:18.120 But when I was in dc 49:18.120 --> 49:19.940 I think for the libertarian national convention 49:19.940 --> 49:23.340 There was somebody from manero there and I was like, oh, I gotta hang out with those guys 49:23.900 --> 49:28.680 And uh, you know, it's super important. I mean, I'm getting ready for the apocalypse. So 49:29.380 --> 49:35.180 You know, I need as many alternative currencies as possible and I haven't read the roger veer book 49:35.180 --> 49:37.600 I don't have an opinion on bitcoin cash particularly 49:38.560 --> 49:44.020 But you know, I I do want like I didn't get into bitcoin so I could be tracked and give my money to the government 49:44.020 --> 49:47.040 That's for sure and that was kind of what was promised. So 49:47.040 --> 49:50.700 A lot of people in general like to rag on projects other than bitcoin 49:51.080 --> 49:56.480 I think that's pretty pointless like why, you know, we need experimentation and sometimes people make mistakes 49:56.480 --> 50:00.540 So people have to learn some personal responsibility when they're making their investments 50:00.540 --> 50:07.340 But they don't want to this is why everybody likes meme coins because they just want to ape in and be wild and just gamble like crazy people 50:07.340 --> 50:12.540 So that's that's human nature. So between that and then all the trumpies and the kamala mama 50:12.540 --> 50:16.320 Mama lovers, I mean, I don't know we've got a long way to go 50:16.320 --> 50:20.980 But I do think that there's a change and I think that, you know, even a platform like x 50:21.640 --> 50:26.580 Is pretty censored. I don't know if you guys feel similarly, but like I'm not really buying this whole 50:27.060 --> 50:28.640 elan is the grand lord of 50:29.180 --> 50:29.620 of 50:30.360 --> 50:31.040 you know 50:32.460 --> 50:38.980 No censorship. I I just hear lots of people still being censored. So, you know, we need we need new options for sure 50:38.980 --> 50:45.060 And um, especially on the money side. So I'm really happy to be there and um, I'll be playing some songs for you guys 50:45.620 --> 50:49.460 Uh from my albums and yeah, I've got a lot of different like freedom stuff 50:49.460 --> 50:53.180 So I know that the manero people like freedom and that's that's where the real crossover is 50:53.180 --> 50:58.220 I'm not as strong on my privacy game, but you know, I could learn and that's where I'm going to be doing 51:00.320 --> 51:01.240 Fantastic fantastic 51:01.780 --> 51:06.460 Well, why is it? Why do you think, uh, you know, some of these quote-unquote freedom fighters 51:07.620 --> 51:08.080 are 51:08.540 --> 51:14.160 You know avoiding things like manero talking about manero. I mean it's for obvious reasons that they 51:15.060 --> 51:19.280 Dude, everybody is like a baby. They all want likes. That's all they care about 51:19.280 --> 51:22.800 It's like kind of sad to me and I I have a theory about this 51:22.800 --> 51:26.720 I think it's because we have so many people from divorced and unstable homes 51:26.720 --> 51:32.800 And so they need to validate themselves by like likes on twitter or on facebook or whatever stupid thing it is 51:32.800 --> 51:37.680 So they just go where it's popular and it's sickening. It's it's actually very hard 51:38.380 --> 51:43.500 Like I've been in you know, I was doing a tour with ron paul like in 2012 51:43.500 --> 51:45.880 So I've seen a lot of different things change 51:46.540 --> 51:46.960 and 51:47.580 --> 51:49.180 It's very frustrating seeing 51:49.900 --> 51:52.520 Kind of attention-seeking behavior get a reward 51:53.180 --> 51:57.740 And then also what I noticed was um right after ron paul lost 51:58.280 --> 52:03.640 All of the famous podcasters became replaced by these kind of republican-y kind of podcasters 52:04.300 --> 52:07.800 And I don't know where they all came from but they all had a ton of views 52:08.620 --> 52:14.360 So I feel like our even our mainstream like there's like an expression. I think david eyck uses it 52:14.360 --> 52:16.000 mainstream alternative media 52:16.600 --> 52:20.500 I think that it's um, it's pretty contrived. I mean, I really like tucker carlson 52:20.500 --> 52:24.540 I really like his his stuff, but I do feel like it's a bit of a controlled hangout 52:25.460 --> 52:29.880 And we are dealing with extraordinarily evil forces. So what do I know? 52:30.080 --> 52:33.800 Right? Maybe they know something that I don't know and that's making them a little bit more obedient 52:34.360 --> 52:37.560 Um, but you know at the end of the day people want their likes 52:37.560 --> 52:43.460 They want their $22 for a week of like shitposting and you know, that's literally all people care about 52:44.200 --> 52:48.420 And you know, it's it's an unfortunate kind of thing because it's very discouraging 52:49.040 --> 52:52.240 Um, when I first joined uh, the liberty movement 52:52.240 --> 52:56.260 I had some really good friends just walk away and I couldn't understand then 52:56.260 --> 53:01.440 Why they would do that and it's the egos and the attention-seeking nonsense and also 53:01.440 --> 53:06.440 The inability for people to adhere to their principles that I think is a really big turnoff 53:06.440 --> 53:10.540 You know, I mean, how much time can you put into activism if some of the people 53:10.960 --> 53:14.620 Don't even live up to the principles that they espouse, right? So 53:14.620 --> 53:17.720 You know, it's easy to get a little bit burnt out 53:18.420 --> 53:18.820 and 53:19.560 --> 53:22.660 That's another reason why I was like, oh, I well manero people 53:23.060 --> 53:25.880 First of all, like I said, I am a narrow right and I like privacy 53:25.880 --> 53:31.200 But you know, they're thinking about the right things whereas they think the bitcoin audience has become 53:31.820 --> 53:37.960 Very keen on acceptance. You know, everybody was so happy to give Trump a cassatious coin. Like why? 53:38.220 --> 53:39.740 Why does he need a cassatious coin? 53:40.360 --> 53:43.940 Like the dude's got a ton of money give that to somebody who actually needs it like I'm 53:43.940 --> 53:48.040 And they're like, oh my god, he bought a burger. Like who cares? 53:48.440 --> 53:51.660 I don't care and apparently 45 minutes for the transaction to settle 53:52.240 --> 53:53.260 So like 53:54.220 --> 53:55.280 I'm not that impressed 53:55.280 --> 53:56.240 custodial lightning 53:56.740 --> 54:01.320 Yeah, and look, I mean, I think that there's some things to admire about trump that fight fight fight thing 54:01.440 --> 54:03.220 I mean, that was super rock star level stuff 54:03.220 --> 54:08.600 But at the end of the day, these people are all controlled as far as I can tell in some way or another 54:08.600 --> 54:11.880 And he had a lot of opportunities to let out 54:11.880 --> 54:12.540 Um 54:13.180 --> 54:16.140 Snowden or to pardon snowden to pardon assange 54:16.140 --> 54:20.860 And instead as assange had to just sit there and miss the first few years of his children's lives 54:21.320 --> 54:24.720 And trump, you know, did the whole pro-vax nonsense 54:25.460 --> 54:27.880 Um, and I just don't see that much contrition 54:28.440 --> 54:35.080 And I think that, you know, whatever the I'm just not that impressed with the whole political process. Sure 54:35.080 --> 54:37.680 I'm voting for trump. He's better than the other guy 54:37.680 --> 54:39.960 But I don't even think voting is really a thing like 54:40.520 --> 54:43.740 People shouldn't be voting who's going to be the master of their neighbor in the first place 54:43.740 --> 54:50.120 I mean, I have to live in reality and uh, an arca, you know, an archetypa is not here yet. Um, 54:50.560 --> 54:56.000 So, you know and also incidentally like even even in those groups like I was involved in 54:56.480 --> 54:59.720 um, a project called gold sculpt in 55:00.200 --> 55:02.420 2014, uh, which was jeff brooks project 55:02.960 --> 55:06.800 And there was another guy ken johnson and what I saw there was 55:07.360 --> 55:12.720 A bunch of scammers. I tried to like raise the alarm everybody was like, oh, you're being a bitch 55:12.720 --> 55:15.960 Excuse my language, but like that's what they thought they thought I was just being annoying 55:15.960 --> 55:19.620 And they just wanted to help him and it's just human nature 55:19.620 --> 55:25.640 People like have to get smacked in the face in order to wake up and even then I don't think it really has any kind of effect 55:26.520 --> 55:30.480 So, you know, we just have to focus on finding the people that are 55:30.480 --> 55:36.480 In alignment with our values and truly are right and not just kind of like making money and grifting because you know 55:36.480 --> 55:40.020 There are those people that are just grifting and uh, 55:40.560 --> 55:44.560 And yeah, I mean that's that's just very challenging and um, and it's human nature 55:45.120 --> 55:48.380 And so that's I like I I actually canceled my event next week 55:48.380 --> 55:53.020 I was doing an event called the counterparty here in Miami, but obviously we're getting blown up with a stupid storm 55:53.020 --> 55:54.000 Oh, yeah 55:54.000 --> 55:59.080 Yeah, so we moved into january 25th and 26, but one of the yeah, so now 55:59.080 --> 56:03.480 Yeah, exactly that was my thought but you know the point is is that 56:04.020 --> 56:10.600 Like part of our programming that we wanted to do was add in a spiritual element because I think that you know 56:10.600 --> 56:15.560 If we're only thinking about the fight gotta fight fight fight like that's not healthy 56:15.560 --> 56:22.380 It's not good for us and we're not going to be good husbands and wives and parents and all the other roles that we have 56:22.380 --> 56:25.800 Like our role is not only to fight the state 24 7 56:25.800 --> 56:30.280 I mean, maybe that's okay for some people, but I don't think that that's a really sustainable model 56:31.280 --> 56:35.820 so like things like homeschooling and um, you know permaculture 56:36.360 --> 56:41.220 And nutrition and wellness like I think that those are all components of freedom that 56:41.220 --> 56:48.060 People should give a little bit of balanced attention to because it's just not sustainable the way that it is right now 56:48.560 --> 56:53.900 Um, and I think that some people learn that lesson, you know, and and there's an awakening on that front 56:53.900 --> 56:56.340 but I do think it's important for people to kind of like 56:56.800 --> 57:02.860 You know get right with god or whatever they think is the the higher power and make sure that they're in alignment because I think that 57:02.860 --> 57:06.040 you know, there's a lot of disappointment in trying to fight the man 57:06.600 --> 57:10.900 And uh, sometimes it's just like new new boss same as the old boss 57:11.540 --> 57:15.640 I do think that we're at a turning point in history where things could go, you know 57:15.640 --> 57:18.920 Age of Aquarius style and that could be really awesome 57:19.480 --> 57:20.840 But I'm just waiting 57:21.460 --> 57:26.780 To see what happens and I'm trying to do my best to build up community around me and 57:26.780 --> 57:32.220 And help others kind of wake up as best I can but you know, people want to keep hitting snooze 57:32.220 --> 57:36.260 That's on them. I mean look all these people they didn't go to the anti-war rally 57:36.260 --> 57:40.600 Well, guess what losers you're all going to get drafted. So let me know how that goes for you 57:40.600 --> 57:43.500 You know what I mean? Like uh, you guys don't want to show up. That's fine 57:43.500 --> 57:49.480 I'm just gonna like, you know get prepared for things going south. Hopefully they don't but I mean, I don't see how they could 57:49.480 --> 57:55.280 Turn out any other way considering how far down we've gone. Um, these dangerous paths that we're on, right? 57:56.280 --> 57:59.840 So everybody's got to kind of be responsible for themselves and and hopefully 58:00.520 --> 58:04.880 You know think a little bit ahead instead of just I mean look, it's exciting 58:04.880 --> 58:09.300 It's great to doom scroll and find out about all the bad things that are going to happen 58:09.300 --> 58:12.600 But is that really healthy? I don't know. I don't think it is personally 58:13.660 --> 58:14.460 I love it 58:15.140 --> 58:20.820 Where do you uh, where do you get this this this drive from and you have you have you always been like this? I know 58:21.560 --> 58:23.820 Yeah, I'm animal style. My mom is from Poland 58:24.740 --> 58:28.560 No, my mom is from Poland. So I grew up learning that communism sucks 58:28.980 --> 58:33.000 You know, I learned that real quick and I knew because when I would go to Poland 58:33.000 --> 58:36.920 There was the remnants of communism and I couldn't get a freaking toy. They didn't have any Barbies 58:36.920 --> 58:40.520 They didn't have anything you had to go on like a like a line and hold a little ticket 58:40.520 --> 58:44.320 And then they would give you like a imitation Barbie and you know, even as a kid 58:44.320 --> 58:49.880 I was like, all right. Well the land and the people are nice, but you know, it wasn't like America where you've had everything 58:50.580 --> 58:50.980 So 58:51.840 --> 58:55.260 Interestingly enough now Poland has a really booming economy and we're in the toilet 58:55.860 --> 59:01.320 Um, I have a friend who's like Poland is now the place to be my my daughter comes there every summer 59:01.800 --> 59:02.560 Oh, really? 59:03.000 --> 59:07.960 Try to make her bring her down to the conference. I think you guys would hit it off. She's only 10 years old 59:08.540 --> 59:11.840 That's awesome. Well, you got to start them young and like, you know 59:11.840 --> 59:16.120 My mom she would play for me a lot of the 60s and 70s singer-songwriters growing up 59:16.120 --> 59:21.080 And you know, like cat Stevens doing peace train had a huge impact on me 59:21.080 --> 59:25.020 You know, like I saw that music could be used to convey an idea 59:25.020 --> 59:29.780 And reading dystopian novels woke me up to all the different things that could go wrong 59:29.780 --> 59:34.500 And so this is like why I made tatiana coin. It was because 59:35.060 --> 59:39.920 I know how important those voices are and how they can like if I didn't hear a peace train 59:39.920 --> 59:43.360 I might be a totally different person right now just run one single song 59:43.940 --> 59:47.160 And then, you know, all these other books that woke all these other people up 59:47.160 --> 59:49.660 I mean the arts are a great way to get a message across 59:49.660 --> 59:54.580 The first song that I made about bitcoin was not a song. It was a jingle because I said, okay 59:54.580 --> 59:56.880 We got to sell this thing, right? So 59:57.500 --> 01:00:04.340 I think that the arts are a great way to wake people up that maybe are not necessarily technically inclined or 01:00:04.500 --> 01:00:05.240 politically inclined 01:00:05.720 --> 01:00:09.820 Um people around the world are definitely waking up generally to this stuff, right? 01:00:10.200 --> 01:00:16.540 But it's a it's a little bit of a slow slog. So, you know having artists be able to express themselves 01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:21.440 Um is really important to make sure that we can uh 01:00:21.440 --> 01:00:26.340 I don't know like we just we just need different ways to wake people up and meet them where they're at 01:00:26.980 --> 01:00:29.200 And I'll be really happy when these elections are over 01:00:29.200 --> 01:00:34.340 Because then maybe we could actually talk about some real stuff because every year all the most important 01:00:34.500 --> 01:00:35.100 election 01:00:35.100 --> 01:00:38.600 I mean, I'll give it that like I think it is that this time sure 01:00:38.600 --> 01:00:43.760 But like at the end of the day, are we gonna stop the war in uh, like the middle east? I don't think so 01:00:43.760 --> 01:00:46.720 We're just gonna amp that up. I don't see that going down 01:00:46.720 --> 01:00:51.820 I really hope that they end the one at least in russia and in ukraine, but I don't see that happening 01:00:51.820 --> 01:00:54.280 I mean look these guys are all getting paid off 01:00:54.280 --> 01:00:58.980 So anybody with the illusion that trump is their daddy is like retarded. Excuse my language 01:00:58.980 --> 01:01:01.220 But like that's basically the deal right like come on 01:01:01.220 --> 01:01:05.940 You know, he's better than than kamala and maybe there'll be some hope there 01:01:05.940 --> 01:01:07.460 I don't mean to be like miss blackpill 01:01:08.020 --> 01:01:13.180 But I mean, I've been doing this for a long time. Like ara was saying, uh, they seem to be 01:01:13.180 --> 01:01:18.560 Are pristine pristine for the head with the totalitarian, you know technocratic totalitarian 01:01:20.160 --> 01:01:25.620 You know progress whether it's a kamala win or trump when we're gonna get it one way or the other 01:01:26.180 --> 01:01:30.280 Yeah, and the problem with trump is that everybody's gonna go back to sleep. They're gonna say oh 01:01:30.820 --> 01:01:34.120 Trumps and fire usher in these things, right? Absolutely 01:01:34.800 --> 01:01:40.780 And so it happens what it happens when you have the the the groups that should be most opposed to these ideas 01:01:40.780 --> 01:01:43.800 Is what when they usher in these ideas and get them passed 01:01:44.340 --> 01:01:45.960 Right before everybody's eyes 01:01:46.490 --> 01:01:48.480 That's what I'm seeing is a concern because 01:01:49.100 --> 01:01:52.260 Well, the the thing is exactly actually it's a very good example 01:01:52.260 --> 01:01:55.740 But I think that that's just one of the many examples that we're gonna see coming up 01:01:55.740 --> 01:01:59.500 And that's what I think is frightening because people will say oh, it's okay 01:01:59.500 --> 01:02:03.420 If you know, we're we're taking away this freedom because daddy trump said it's okay 01:02:03.420 --> 01:02:07.620 And it's like no guys. It's not okay. Get where your principal's at 01:02:07.620 --> 01:02:09.140 So that's again 01:02:09.140 --> 01:02:14.040 This goes back to like how you're gonna win when if you're ain't right within sorry to butcher the lauren hill 01:02:14.040 --> 01:02:17.180 Cool, but I mean that's pretty much it right people are 01:02:17.660 --> 01:02:24.400 You know all over the place and uh, each person's got to find their personal journey to like a purpose and to 01:02:24.400 --> 01:02:28.620 Really tell if what they're doing has some kind of effect or if they're actually 01:02:28.620 --> 01:02:31.480 You know the road to hell is paved with good intentions, right? 01:02:31.620 --> 01:02:36.260 And that that is a that is a factor that people need to consider when they think that they're doing the right thing 01:02:41.100 --> 01:02:43.740 Do you love coffee and minera as much as we do 01:02:43.740 --> 01:02:49.260 Consider making gratuitous.org your daily cup pay with minera for premium fresh beans 01:02:49.260 --> 01:02:55.040 And if you like what you taste send a digital cash tip directly to the farmers that made it possible 01:02:56.660 --> 01:03:00.220 Proceeds help us grow this channel gratuitous and minero 01:03:06.050 --> 01:03:10.830 All right, dropping dropping a lot of based points of views there 01:03:14.210 --> 01:03:16.810 Thanks, there's there's more where that came from 01:03:17.390 --> 01:03:21.810 Listen to my songs like go to tatiana morose or like who is this wild woman? 01:03:22.170 --> 01:03:27.770 They could find out they could go to Spotify. I'll get I'll get one tenth of a penny each time they play my song 01:03:27.770 --> 01:03:29.210 So i'm gonna retire on that 01:03:29.790 --> 01:03:34.130 Um, you gotta you gotta sell your your music on xmr bizarre.com 01:03:34.650 --> 01:03:38.970 I think that that's true. Maybe I'll I think somebody there can teach me how to do that, right? 01:03:39.270 --> 01:03:41.710 Yeah, oh, yeah, super easy. Yeah, very easy 01:03:42.330 --> 01:03:45.970 Perfect. Very easy to do very easy to do. Actually, I do want to uh, Aaron 01:03:46.810 --> 01:03:50.710 Let let let let's jump back to the topic really quickly though with the you know 01:03:50.710 --> 01:03:57.230 Kamala versus trump you were making some good points there and tatiana was kind of bringing them up again from her from her perspective 01:03:58.010 --> 01:04:05.590 What do you practically see as the outcome of a trump win versus a kamala win in terms of how 01:04:05.590 --> 01:04:09.070 Things may look differently from the minero perspective 01:04:10.770 --> 01:04:15.850 So so this is an app before that I want to add that, you know, I wasted 15 years on this 01:04:16.310 --> 01:04:19.350 political thing and and actually I ran for president 01:04:19.890 --> 01:04:25.450 As a republican this time just to raise the cbdc issue. I wasn't trying to win or have any expectations 01:04:25.930 --> 01:04:30.450 So I talked to Cynthia Lewis. I talked to the vac. I gave him my book. He actually read it 01:04:30.450 --> 01:04:33.470 I've talked to him about it several times. I gave it to Ted Cruz all of this 01:04:33.950 --> 01:04:38.070 There's no hope politically zero. There is no lobbying 01:04:38.590 --> 01:04:41.770 That is going to work and I'll put it as simply as possible 01:04:41.770 --> 01:04:47.070 The power of congress is the power of the purse. They have no interest 01:04:47.610 --> 01:04:49.290 whatsoever in competition 01:04:49.290 --> 01:04:58.150 So it's antithetical and it's illogical to think that we can work with exam in any kind of constructive way 01:04:58.730 --> 01:04:59.090 to 01:04:59.770 --> 01:05:02.470 coexist alongside it and I'll just say 01:05:03.130 --> 01:05:07.330 Every fiat currency in human history has failed and the state even screws up 01:05:07.850 --> 01:05:09.850 Met precious metals by debasing them 01:05:09.850 --> 01:05:10.210 so 01:05:10.950 --> 01:05:15.430 You know, I I won't go on but if my stepmother was involved in politics 01:05:15.430 --> 01:05:20.050 She was the co-chair of the rnc. She was trumps ambassador to Costa Rica. I've seen politics 01:05:20.630 --> 01:05:27.730 Up close at the highest level abandon all hope you who enter politics now as it relates to minero 01:05:28.990 --> 01:05:29.550 again 01:05:30.310 --> 01:05:32.650 Look at the language of the lumus 01:05:33.410 --> 01:05:36.350 Gillibrand bill and I'm convinced that if you put the blockchain 01:05:36.350 --> 01:05:40.310 Usa patriot freedom act and the bill text said 01:05:40.310 --> 01:05:45.330 We're going to round up everybody who has self-custody crypto and shoot them in from a firing squad 01:05:45.330 --> 01:05:48.930 74 percent of the people would probably cheer because they wouldn't read the bill 01:05:49.510 --> 01:05:52.550 No one's read this lumus. Gillibrand bill 01:05:53.150 --> 01:05:56.390 And if you look at the bill itself again 01:05:56.990 --> 01:06:00.670 It adds algorithmic stable coins. It gives more control to the banks 01:06:00.670 --> 01:06:02.930 He has multiple quotes that I've shared 01:06:03.570 --> 01:06:06.470 As means she is completely anti privacy coins 01:06:06.470 --> 01:06:13.290 So trump says to in the first 100 days and this is the big anytime somebody says common-sense rules of the road 01:06:13.830 --> 01:06:14.110 Run 01:06:14.110 --> 01:06:18.950 So trump has said in his first hundred days. He's going to lay out a regulatory framework 01:06:18.950 --> 01:06:24.470 Well, I mean the basis of it is going to be lumus because she's the farthest along furthermore 01:06:25.230 --> 01:06:29.510 The democrats once harris decided to get in and realize she might need 01:06:30.010 --> 01:06:35.870 Some of these bit coiner votes and now all of a sudden mark cuban is involved in everything else and even chuck schumer came in 01:06:36.690 --> 01:06:40.710 And said well, we might pass something before the election, which by the way 01:06:40.710 --> 01:06:44.550 We should all be worried about whatever that is and we need to understand 01:06:45.190 --> 01:06:50.830 That the starting point is jillibrand lumus and it only gets worse from there 01:06:51.390 --> 01:06:55.290 So, um, there's nothing that's being proposed that 01:06:55.970 --> 01:07:03.350 Is pro-privacy in any circumstance and there is language in the lumus jillibrand bill 01:07:03.350 --> 01:07:03.730 I believe 01:07:04.330 --> 01:07:07.390 Or for and some of the other bills that it's about 01:07:08.030 --> 01:07:14.770 KYC AML and money laundering and terrorism and this is just the catch-all that they always throw in 01:07:15.510 --> 01:07:20.230 And and it always works. I mean, unfortunately the thing that worries me the most about all of this is 01:07:20.830 --> 01:07:22.850 You know, I mean at any point in time and we've had 01:07:23.470 --> 01:07:25.710 The social security database go down 01:07:25.710 --> 01:07:28.990 I mean, there are there's literally trillions of dollars of lost 01:07:28.990 --> 01:07:30.350 uh economic 01:07:31.150 --> 01:07:35.950 activity every year because centralized databases are hacked and basically every 01:07:36.730 --> 01:07:40.330 Every market of the economy runs on centralized data means so 01:07:40.330 --> 01:07:44.690 Uh, so it's and we just saw the water supply was hacked yesterday 01:07:45.310 --> 01:07:47.070 Covering, I believe 14 million people 01:07:47.070 --> 01:07:49.770 So that's an easy pretext to 01:07:49.770 --> 01:07:55.610 Try to clamp down on this stuff to try to implement a centralized tokenized system for all assets 01:07:56.230 --> 01:07:59.730 And to remove, you know privacy coins. So the answer to this is 01:08:00.250 --> 01:08:06.450 We have to move as quickly as possible to get easy to use tools as possible and get people using them 01:08:06.450 --> 01:08:11.850 And but I want to stress this because my background is in serial entrepreneur, but even 01:08:12.630 --> 01:08:16.050 In looking at whether it's tech companies or even ideas 01:08:16.610 --> 01:08:20.870 Um, I was at G. Edward Griffin's red pill expo and chatted with him a bit 01:08:20.870 --> 01:08:27.550 Even the united states itself it wasn't you know, we didn't defeat the british with 50 plus one at the ballot box 01:08:27.550 --> 01:08:28.770 It was half of a percent 01:08:28.770 --> 01:08:36.130 It then influenced one percent that influenced three percent and it was really only 15 percent total that won the american revolution 01:08:36.130 --> 01:08:41.270 So we don't need to focus on mainstream yet. We just need to cobble together 01:08:41.830 --> 01:08:46.210 All of the people in these disparate categories from health freedom to food freedom 01:08:46.210 --> 01:08:50.890 To permaculture to all of these different areas and build easy to use 01:08:50.890 --> 01:08:55.170 Point of sale systems and wallets and if it becomes easy enough to use 01:08:55.830 --> 01:08:59.550 Others will adopt it because it is a superior alternative 01:09:00.170 --> 01:09:06.490 To what they're putting out with cbdcs, but right now unfortunately when I first used bitcoin in 2012 01:09:07.430 --> 01:09:10.610 It was better faster cheaper money, but since then 01:09:11.270 --> 01:09:12.190 zell venmo 01:09:12.710 --> 01:09:14.010 apple pay google pay 01:09:14.010 --> 01:09:19.890 And all of the others have actually leapfrogged and it's a better easier to use experience. We have to focus on making 01:09:20.830 --> 01:09:21.790 privacy coins 01:09:22.310 --> 01:09:27.890 Simple for merchants and simple for the end user and if we do that well enough then when that emergency hits 01:09:28.450 --> 01:09:32.810 And you know using the typical problem reaction solution that when people are in this fearful state 01:09:33.390 --> 01:09:34.970 We can offer them something better 01:09:35.510 --> 01:09:37.590 Instead of them having to take the 01:09:38.310 --> 01:09:40.010 charity approach by default 01:09:42.070 --> 01:09:46.790 I love that man all great points and I you keep stressing the fact that 01:09:46.790 --> 01:09:49.170 We got to bridge these communities 01:09:49.170 --> 01:09:54.730 There's already there are already people that are very much aligned with using digital cash and minaret 01:09:54.730 --> 01:10:00.450 They just don't really know it yet these you know these communities that already exist out there that are freedom 01:10:01.060 --> 01:10:02.830 communities that are perhaps into 01:10:02.830 --> 01:10:10.350 Other specific topics, but not realizing that they they would they would like to utilize a tool like minaret 01:10:10.870 --> 01:10:15.550 And that perhaps enough people already exist out there for us to kind of opt out 01:10:19.890 --> 01:10:23.510 I have a question for erin. Oh go ahead. Sorry go ahead 01:10:23.510 --> 01:10:25.150 Well, I was just going to say one quick thing 01:10:25.150 --> 01:10:29.490 I see I see rafael. I'm here as well and I actually just did an AMA with syro today 01:10:29.910 --> 01:10:33.870 I also think that there's some value in well, look let's look at it like this 01:10:33.870 --> 01:10:38.290 The cbdc's and they've developed can do 1.8 million transactions per second 01:10:38.290 --> 01:10:42.770 If we need to onboard a bunch of people minaret alone is not going to be enough 01:10:42.770 --> 01:10:47.470 We need multiple we're going to need multiple cryptocurrencies. I think it would be great to see if we could 01:10:47.950 --> 01:10:49.350 break through some of the 01:10:49.950 --> 01:10:54.530 You know the dynamics between crypto privacy crypto projects 01:10:55.170 --> 01:11:01.490 And you know and get minaret and zeno and fire and pirate chain and zcash and everybody to kind of 01:11:01.490 --> 01:11:07.170 You know be willing to kind of play play well together understanding that we're facing an existential threat 01:11:07.830 --> 01:11:09.790 Well, they'll all they'll all be in minaretopia 01:11:09.790 --> 01:11:14.630 Although zcash won't be there if you get zcash involved by all means they're more than welcome 01:11:14.630 --> 01:11:17.390 I don't know. Vlad if you if you have a way of getting zcash involved 01:11:18.290 --> 01:11:18.930 Please do 01:11:19.850 --> 01:11:24.230 We had somebody from zcash who wasn't really directly part of 01:11:24.930 --> 01:11:27.870 The the project give a presentation last year 01:11:27.870 --> 01:11:31.550 He was a part of the project but not when he gave his presentation and it was it was good 01:11:31.550 --> 01:11:34.570 It was good, but it would be nice to have some of the 01:11:35.090 --> 01:11:37.490 Uh, you know zcash team 01:11:38.070 --> 01:11:39.010 common present 01:11:39.890 --> 01:11:46.150 Um, I had a question as a follow-up to erin if that's all right. Um, erin you mentioned that 01:11:46.630 --> 01:11:50.010 Vivek read your book. That's kind of cool. Uh, well very cool. Actually 01:11:50.670 --> 01:11:53.110 He does seem like one of the less annoying ones 01:11:53.690 --> 01:11:58.690 Why do you maintain that it is just a total loss trying to pursue it from the government? 01:11:58.950 --> 01:12:00.590 Was he just like sorry, but I just love 01:12:01.090 --> 01:12:06.170 Spying on people like what was the outcome not necessarily violate his confidence or 01:12:06.750 --> 01:12:11.650 In what he told you but i'm just curious like why you were why you jumped from the point that oh, you read it 01:12:11.650 --> 01:12:14.550 And now you're just like no way. Jose. Nothing's gonna happen 01:12:14.550 --> 01:12:21.150 Is it that he just wants attention or what is it that makes you say like well this is a this is a deal breaker 01:12:21.150 --> 01:12:24.330 All right, so here's a little bit of the background of this so 01:12:24.330 --> 01:12:31.370 So I was running for president. This was the context and I'd run for office in new hampshire and gotten 17 000 votes in the statewide 01:12:32.150 --> 01:12:33.470 race and so 01:12:33.470 --> 01:12:36.770 I could have been somewhat annoying in in new hampshire 01:12:37.370 --> 01:12:40.870 And when vivek exited the iowa caucas 01:12:41.490 --> 01:12:45.270 Trump was actually facing a contested primer. So haley was still 01:12:45.270 --> 01:12:50.430 In it. So vivek told trump to go come out against cvc's and when you watch that 01:12:50.430 --> 01:12:57.050 Press conference. It's very clear. Trump doesn't know even to this day what cvc's are however the 01:12:58.090 --> 01:13:02.390 Vivek did read my book and I know this because we talked about some of the specifics of it 01:13:02.390 --> 01:13:06.070 He liked the first half of my book where I lay out the threat of cvc's 01:13:06.070 --> 01:13:08.230 He didn't like the last half of my book which was 01:13:08.890 --> 01:13:12.010 Basically i'm promoting ditching the dollar and moving into 01:13:12.710 --> 01:13:16.990 Alternative assets like he believes that which by the way it is completely ridiculous 01:13:17.500 --> 01:13:20.550 Like there's no way for us to go back on the gold standard 01:13:21.060 --> 01:13:23.470 There is no I've analyzed his policies 01:13:23.950 --> 01:13:28.670 And I mean it's kind of like that scene from goodwill hunting when 01:13:29.910 --> 01:13:34.290 When matt daemon's character is talking to that guy at the bar. He basically says well, yeah 01:13:34.290 --> 01:13:40.910 First you read this book then you read this book. There's no way that even technically we don't have a form of government 01:13:41.430 --> 01:13:44.830 Where you can go in and do what vivek is talking about 01:13:44.830 --> 01:13:51.130 I I think it's basically setting everybody up for a massive disappointment eon is not going to go in and cut the budget by 80% 01:13:51.130 --> 01:13:52.710 It's not even actually possible 01:13:53.750 --> 01:13:55.350 But to be clear 01:13:56.490 --> 01:14:00.090 Vivek believes in state-based modern and he believes 01:14:00.770 --> 01:14:02.890 in uh, that somehow we can 01:14:03.390 --> 01:14:05.010 Move to a gold standard and 01:14:05.630 --> 01:14:06.010 um 01:14:06.790 --> 01:14:12.470 So so there's that aspect of it and then you can actually look at what trump has proposed first of all 01:14:13.190 --> 01:14:15.990 Let's just say this idea of using a strategic 01:14:16.550 --> 01:14:17.490 Bitcoin reserve 01:14:18.230 --> 01:14:20.030 Based on civil asset forfeiture 01:14:20.630 --> 01:14:21.770 That's a bit of a problem 01:14:21.770 --> 01:14:27.250 Right to our friends people like ross people like eon freeman and some of these other things 01:14:27.250 --> 01:14:31.850 So now every time you get pulled over in a traffic light make sure the cop doesn't take your wallet 01:14:31.850 --> 01:14:35.090 And confiscate all of your crypto to put it in the strategic reserve 01:14:35.690 --> 01:14:39.730 If you look at what's being proposed what trump has said 01:14:39.730 --> 01:14:42.590 What linus has said there's nothing 01:14:43.190 --> 01:14:50.210 That indicates any movement towards anything other that has more reporting requirements and is anti privacy 01:14:50.210 --> 01:14:51.870 So read all of the bills 01:14:52.430 --> 01:14:55.390 And read the words that that that trump has said so 01:14:55.910 --> 01:14:57.330 And I know vivek is not 01:14:58.290 --> 01:15:00.310 Vivek does not believe in 01:15:00.890 --> 01:15:03.650 the idea of crypto as being 01:15:04.410 --> 01:15:05.610 A currency 01:15:06.170 --> 01:15:07.870 That can be used as an alternative 01:15:07.870 --> 01:15:12.090 So he's been co-opted as has trump by this 01:15:12.670 --> 01:15:13.730 digital gold narrative 01:15:14.390 --> 01:15:18.010 Right, so okay, and what is lumas proposed and by the way, I want to say this 01:15:18.010 --> 01:15:20.370 Yeah, good if anti policy came in and said 01:15:20.370 --> 01:15:22.750 They had a press conference that said hey everybody 01:15:22.750 --> 01:15:28.850 We're going to use taxpayer dollars to buy a trillion dollars worth of my portfolio and hold it for 20 years 01:15:29.430 --> 01:15:34.510 While she holds 500 000 dollars of that portfolio. That's exactly what lumas did with bitcoin 01:15:34.510 --> 01:15:38.150 So I I would argue that this strategic reserve is kind of a peak 01:15:38.790 --> 01:15:40.270 iron rand zillion 01:15:40.890 --> 01:15:42.130 plot at this point 01:15:43.350 --> 01:15:45.230 So that's that's why I say that 01:15:46.110 --> 01:15:46.510 um 01:15:46.510 --> 01:15:51.470 Yeah, I'm just see everybody cheering for it because yeah, I was I was adding that up too 01:15:51.470 --> 01:15:56.870 I'm like so you're just gonna keep all the money that you see is from everybody and that's your like I can't even understand why 01:15:57.350 --> 01:16:00.050 All these bitcoiners are so excited about that 01:16:00.050 --> 01:16:03.870 That's why it makes me kind of sick to be around them in a lot of ways because it's like 01:16:04.510 --> 01:16:09.690 They care about is the fiat number go up, baby. Yeah, and it's it's really sad 01:16:09.690 --> 01:16:16.290 I mean they've been co-opted to the point where yeah like like aron is basically explaining that big bitcoin is the thing 01:16:16.870 --> 01:16:18.730 That is even co-opting 01:16:19.310 --> 01:16:26.390 These quote-unquote freedom fighters and the politicians that should be aligned with digital cash and the idea 01:16:26.910 --> 01:16:28.650 Transacting people transacting freely 01:16:29.150 --> 01:16:34.450 Even people like rfk jr. I mean I remember being very excited hearing him kind of talk about 01:16:35.180 --> 01:16:38.310 the importance of cash as a tool for people to be able to 01:16:38.830 --> 01:16:41.770 Uh, you know communicate value peter peer without censorship 01:16:42.360 --> 01:16:48.090 And then I see that he's kind of I don't know drinking the bitcoin kool-aid when he gave that speech 01:16:48.090 --> 01:16:51.390 He kind of sounded quite religious and I'm just wondering 01:16:51.390 --> 01:16:56.530 Did we lose rfk jr. Two or does he still believe I'll give you a break with that guy 01:16:56.530 --> 01:16:59.950 He likes his he's a gun grabber fm. Sorry not interested 01:17:00.510 --> 01:17:05.530 Ignoring that though. I mean I've heard him make some you know inspiring points about the poor everybody 01:17:05.530 --> 01:17:07.490 That's inspiring points when they're running 01:17:07.490 --> 01:17:13.490 I can make lots of inspiring points and then when it comes down to it like who actually keeps their word once they get in there 01:17:13.490 --> 01:17:15.150 Nobody it's a bunch of players 01:17:15.150 --> 01:17:20.530 You know a believer in cash for the principles of you know why why we all think it would make sense 01:17:20.530 --> 01:17:23.050 I'm just yeah, so I I know tatiata 01:17:23.530 --> 01:17:24.430 Sorry i'm a hater 01:17:24.430 --> 01:17:28.430 No, I think you you you sniffed him out from from the get go 01:17:28.430 --> 01:17:31.630 But uh, aren't I mean what what do you think man? Do you think? 01:17:32.990 --> 01:17:40.850 rfk jr. Is is just like the rest of them or could he potentially believe in using these things as actual an actual tool for 01:17:40.850 --> 01:17:46.090 Transacting peer-to-peer without censorship. I mean I've argued with a lot of people about this 01:17:46.090 --> 01:17:49.310 And so when you follow the track the track record on this 01:17:49.930 --> 01:17:53.390 Clearly if you look at who's influencing. I mean it's his running mate's 01:17:53.970 --> 01:17:58.350 Uh boyfriend who is runs a lightning network company 01:17:58.350 --> 01:18:04.010 The where he's gotten his information is very similar to where trump has got trump has gotten his information from the winkle-eyed twins 01:18:04.010 --> 01:18:07.050 Who donated a bunch of money to his campaign? 01:18:07.530 --> 01:18:09.650 But here's my issue with rfk 01:18:10.190 --> 01:18:16.630 At my issue with rfk is this he still thinks government can solve problems on a very fundamental basis even when you read his 01:18:16.630 --> 01:18:20.110 Fauci book he he waxes poetic about fdr 01:18:20.110 --> 01:18:24.350 You can't I like and so even this make america healthy again 01:18:24.350 --> 01:18:30.090 Like this whole concept as well if you just had the right people in government you could fix it and it's the corporations that are bad 01:18:30.770 --> 01:18:32.150 That's naive and absurd 01:18:32.770 --> 01:18:38.750 And and by the way, he was gonna be lost me he lost me at reparations when he was ready to start having our reparations 01:18:38.750 --> 01:18:42.030 I was you know, that's kind of big government that's worse right there 01:18:42.030 --> 01:18:45.570 Well, but but but on top of that to show you how naive he is first of all 01:18:45.570 --> 01:18:49.350 Well, he shocked that he didn't get a shot in the democrat primary 01:18:49.350 --> 01:18:53.090 Was he not there in 2016 when birdie got shoved out? 01:18:53.290 --> 01:18:59.850 Then he was shocked that he wasn't getting double digits as an independent this like does he is he that discount? 01:19:00.010 --> 01:19:06.910 We're not the 1960s anymore. He is completely disconnected from how the political process works. So no matter how 01:19:06.910 --> 01:19:09.770 Uh optimistic he may sound 01:19:10.330 --> 01:19:15.550 Government can't fix any of the problems that he claims it can solve at a very basic level 01:19:15.550 --> 01:19:21.870 so uh, but he's been completely co-opted and how he can sit there and talk about cronyism 01:19:22.730 --> 01:19:23.090 while 01:19:23.970 --> 01:19:32.490 He admitted that he put a huge percentage of his net worth in bitcoin and he proposed an even bigger bitcoin 01:19:33.210 --> 01:19:33.630 Uh 01:19:34.430 --> 01:19:37.950 Strategic reserve than Cynthia Loomis like this is truly 01:19:38.530 --> 01:19:42.870 peak cronyism on both sides if anybody else if democrats were doing this 01:19:43.470 --> 01:19:48.810 Under any other circumstance pro liberty people would be calling this cronyism 01:19:48.810 --> 01:19:52.470 But since it's their coin now all of a sudden it's strategic 01:19:53.330 --> 01:19:54.710 Which which is absurd 01:19:55.550 --> 01:20:02.070 Very very good points. I just want to remind everybody we're doing this space to also just help provoke the minaretopia conference 01:20:02.070 --> 01:20:03.070 That's why I have some of the 01:20:03.550 --> 01:20:09.950 Speakers that will be at the conference and entertainers tatiata will be down there playing her music. Vlad will be hosting 01:20:10.530 --> 01:20:11.790 Aaron will be a speaker 01:20:12.530 --> 01:20:15.570 There might be some other speakers in the audience. Sorry if I didn't bring you up 01:20:15.570 --> 01:20:17.010 You could you could jump up if you'd like 01:20:17.730 --> 01:20:22.490 I'm hoping I'm hoping we could get some new eyes on minaretopia through having the space 01:20:23.070 --> 01:20:28.870 Uh, some people have you know followings beyond just minaret. That's why I invited these people in particular 01:20:28.870 --> 01:20:31.950 So it's just not the normal minaret crowd 01:20:31.950 --> 01:20:37.190 So I'm hoping we could uh attract some of some of the followers beyond minaret. So guys, please 01:20:37.930 --> 01:20:44.510 Like and retweet and spread this space. Let's see if we get some new eyes on minaret and minaretopia 01:20:45.110 --> 01:20:50.370 Uh, the goal with minaretopia conference is to obviously discuss minaret 01:20:50.370 --> 01:20:52.370 And really first and foremost 01:20:52.890 --> 01:20:54.930 Build out a digital cash economy 01:20:54.930 --> 01:21:00.910 So we have all all sorts of projects down there presenting on privacy tech 01:21:00.910 --> 01:21:06.410 We have the minaret devs who go into detail presenting on upcoming minaret tech 01:21:06.410 --> 01:21:08.170 and then we have talk from 01:21:08.630 --> 01:21:12.770 You know people like Aaron and and liberty fighters that are talking about the you know 01:21:12.770 --> 01:21:16.090 kind of the importance of digital cash in the first place 01:21:16.770 --> 01:21:22.230 And uh, essentially why why all this matters. So, um, please please do 01:21:22.370 --> 01:21:26.150 consider joining us down at the conference in mexico city 01:21:26.150 --> 01:21:28.270 It's a month away in november 01:21:28.270 --> 01:21:36.390 We keep tickets super cheap to get as many people involved as we can if you want to participate in any way you could email me minaretopia 01:21:36.390 --> 01:21:38.570 at protonmail.com 01:21:39.210 --> 01:21:41.910 And uh should also mention a big part of the conference is 01:21:42.430 --> 01:21:46.670 That we hope people come down there and spend and use their minaret if we use it 01:21:46.670 --> 01:21:53.770 We win is the tag line of the conference and I think it's it's actually just a great line in general for minaret 01:21:53.770 --> 01:21:55.390 If we use it we win 01:21:55.390 --> 01:22:00.850 I do honestly think it's as simple as that and that's what the minaretopia conference is all about 01:22:00.850 --> 01:22:04.670 We have vendors you can basically live off the minaret for the four days you're there 01:22:04.670 --> 01:22:11.470 And the hope is that once you leave minaretopia, you continue to attempt to live off of it using tools like xmr bizarre 01:22:12.230 --> 01:22:14.510 And so that's what this stuff is all about guys 01:22:14.510 --> 01:22:19.550 Please like and share let's get some people up here that have had hands raised or like to talk 01:22:20.110 --> 01:22:23.150 Uh, I see ruben with your hand raised go ahead man 01:22:23.790 --> 01:22:25.350 You got a good hey team 01:22:25.890 --> 01:22:31.950 uh quick disclaimer, uh all school crypto bitcoin since about 2009 minarro since 01:22:31.950 --> 01:22:36.190 I remember floating around 2012 2013 ish 01:22:36.790 --> 01:22:37.270 um 01:22:37.270 --> 01:22:41.970 Shout out to the minaret community for giving the middle finger to the markets after getting kicked out of the big 01:22:41.970 --> 01:22:44.050 The that massive exchange 01:22:44.730 --> 01:22:48.690 Uh, which is what I can predicted by the way like if there's anybody in the world 01:22:48.690 --> 01:22:55.150 Who was salivating at the idea of getting kicked off at exchange and be the minaret kids picking tinfoil hat motherfuckers 01:22:55.150 --> 01:23:00.810 Anyways point is uh, the reason I came up is I there's a new piece of technology that's come out in the last 01:23:02.390 --> 01:23:05.850 Four or five months, uh known as graph rag 01:23:06.410 --> 01:23:12.290 Um grasp being um graph data architecture. This is gonna get a little technical, but I won't be long 01:23:12.810 --> 01:23:18.650 Um and rag being retrieval or went to generation, right? So it's it's a it's a useful way for the fancy ai 01:23:19.330 --> 01:23:20.250 to look into 01:23:20.830 --> 01:23:22.210 not just buckets of data 01:23:22.850 --> 01:23:25.870 but to look across multiple buckets 01:23:26.490 --> 01:23:27.010 and then 01:23:27.610 --> 01:23:30.410 Reshaped that information in a way where it can draw things 01:23:30.910 --> 01:23:37.990 From a broad array of complexity and distill that information in a way that we haven't been able to do thus far with traditional 01:23:38.730 --> 01:23:41.570 um retrieval mechanisms or rag mechanisms 01:23:42.110 --> 01:23:44.970 The reason why I bring it up here is it occurs to me 01:23:44.970 --> 01:23:52.270 And I haven't found a lot of other people to who knows enough about both the crypto side of things and the llm side of things 01:23:52.950 --> 01:23:55.810 To actually sort of sanity check this so it could be a squirrel 01:23:56.410 --> 01:24:00.210 um, but it occurs that if one were to 01:24:00.410 --> 01:24:01.270 uh 01:24:03.250 --> 01:24:05.110 Jiggle a blockchain 01:24:06.010 --> 01:24:10.410 Uh in terms like that the actual data architecture and treat it like if 01:24:11.170 --> 01:24:11.530 well 01:24:13.590 --> 01:24:15.590 For an lm to 01:24:16.630 --> 01:24:17.850 respond to queries to 01:24:18.810 --> 01:24:22.550 There's a non-zero likelihood that it could unpack mixers 01:24:23.370 --> 01:24:26.490 And the biggest mixer I know is minero 01:24:27.190 --> 01:24:30.910 I don't know what the implications of that is. I don't know how much of a tinfoil hat I'm wearing 01:24:30.910 --> 01:24:33.910 But I bring it up because I think it's concerning 01:24:34.810 --> 01:24:37.010 And if anybody in the room 01:24:37.610 --> 01:24:42.330 Is that's very deep sort of protocol level. Yeah, that that that's a luke parker question 01:24:42.330 --> 01:24:45.470 Especially with the implementation of full chain membership proof 01:24:46.590 --> 01:24:51.090 um, I mean minero uses three basic technologies, right it's um 01:24:51.890 --> 01:24:57.890 Uses stealth addresses for hiding who the receiver is he uses ring signatures for obfuscating the sender 01:24:57.890 --> 01:25:01.870 And it uses confidential transactions for obfuscating the amounts 01:25:03.010 --> 01:25:05.410 You know stealth addresses and confidential 01:25:06.430 --> 01:25:09.090 Transactions are are true encryption. So 01:25:09.650 --> 01:25:15.770 Um, you know, I don't I don't think using the tools that you're talking about would have make any headway there 01:25:16.370 --> 01:25:16.750 um 01:25:16.750 --> 01:25:21.230 But potentially there could be you know, like we were talking about the weaknesses with ring signatures 01:25:21.230 --> 01:25:24.330 Uh could be a problem with something like what you're talking about 01:25:24.830 --> 01:25:28.610 Um, but I would I would assume that full chain membership proofs would 01:25:29.310 --> 01:25:31.350 Essentially eliminate concern there 01:25:31.980 --> 01:25:35.010 I do, uh, it sounds like what you're talking about is 01:25:35.570 --> 01:25:40.470 A way for chain, you know chain analysis on steroids. Uh, basically using ai to 01:25:41.070 --> 01:25:41.450 essentially 01:25:42.350 --> 01:25:45.950 Uh perfectly track and trace things if they have the data but 01:25:46.370 --> 01:25:51.550 Uh, narrow the difference is quite a black hole and with full chain membership proofs 01:25:52.250 --> 01:25:58.090 Um, even being quantum resistant for looking potentially in some ways according to luke 01:25:58.090 --> 01:26:05.550 I do think we we might might be slightly ahead of ahead of the enemies with what you're talking about 01:26:05.550 --> 01:26:10.850 But I could be wrong and it would be a great question topic to bring up at minarotopia 01:26:11.410 --> 01:26:14.170 Uh to luke and maybe even when we have the minaro panel 01:26:17.390 --> 01:26:23.250 Do you know to thank you for the time and attention if anybody wants uh to nerd out on the side 01:26:23.250 --> 01:26:29.150 They're listening to this conversation. Yeah, and I would I would encourage you to uh, if you're not attending in person 01:26:30.010 --> 01:26:32.490 Um, obviously would be great if you did and you can ask that question 01:26:32.490 --> 01:26:36.310 But even if not I would encourage you to try to participate virtually with the conference 01:26:37.150 --> 01:26:41.710 And uh ask that question during q&a for either luke or for when we have the minaro panel 01:26:41.710 --> 01:26:42.790 I think it would be great 01:26:42.790 --> 01:26:47.250 And you're always welcome to you know, join anything that i'm doing the minarotopia shows or anything 01:26:47.750 --> 01:26:50.870 And if uh, I ever have it be on that you think is you know 01:26:51.430 --> 01:26:54.530 Could answer that question to jump in and ask it if I don't 01:26:55.450 --> 01:26:58.350 You know what I do have a question for you specifically dolus 01:26:58.870 --> 01:27:02.430 I don't I don't see a lot of community builders the minaro like I do 01:27:03.450 --> 01:27:06.430 In many I I personally identify as chain agnostic 01:27:07.290 --> 01:27:11.850 Um, I like a lot of the theses, but I'm not a I'm not a big bag holder any particular 01:27:11.850 --> 01:27:16.690 Um, and as a side effect of that, you know, I might check on the minaro kids 01:27:17.210 --> 01:27:21.350 I say I use the term affectionately, maybe like twice or three times per year, right? 01:27:22.030 --> 01:27:23.970 Same with another, you know, a few dozen chains 01:27:24.410 --> 01:27:27.390 Um, one thing I noticed in particular about minaro community 01:27:28.430 --> 01:27:31.170 Uh, is that you don't see a lot of community builders 01:27:32.350 --> 01:27:34.990 Comparatively and I'm wondering how your experience is 01:27:35.470 --> 01:27:40.970 Um, whether there's any sort of peculiarities in building community, uh, you know structured around 01:27:41.850 --> 01:27:48.410 A technology which is fundamentally, um, sort of strives for true anonymity and uh, data privacy 01:27:48.410 --> 01:27:54.270 Yeah, you know, it's not easy being uh, the guy who's out there trying to 01:27:55.030 --> 01:27:58.470 Um, I don't want to see it be the face of minaro because I definitely don't want to be 01:27:58.470 --> 01:28:04.650 Be considered the face of minaro, but a guy who's out there being the public facing portion of minaro 01:28:05.250 --> 01:28:10.370 Um, I think there are not a lot of community builders for you know, the reasons you're talking about right 01:28:10.370 --> 01:28:15.430 So minaro is very crypto anarchist cypher punk aligned people like maintaining their anonymity 01:28:15.430 --> 01:28:19.010 It's why they're into minaro for the first place and in their privacy 01:28:19.010 --> 01:28:26.590 So it just doesn't really jive to you know build community publicly with when you have those values 01:28:27.410 --> 01:28:31.370 I I'm of the argument that you know, we need to you know 01:28:31.790 --> 01:28:38.470 There needs to be some people like me that go out and try to spread minaro beyond those that already know it 01:28:38.470 --> 01:28:43.510 Because that's the only way we're going to grow. That's why I ran for congress in 2020. I don't know 01:28:43.510 --> 01:28:48.970 I guess I just fit that particular niche honestly. It doesn't come naturally to me either 01:28:48.970 --> 01:28:54.990 Believe it or not. I'm quite the introvert. I'm quite the actually kind of natural minaro minded type of person 01:28:55.590 --> 01:28:58.510 Uh, I want to just be left alone. I want my privacy 01:28:58.510 --> 01:29:04.070 My dream is that one day I could walk away from all this and kind of ride off into the sunset 01:29:04.630 --> 01:29:09.230 And you know, it not have to not have to be out there talking about it 01:29:09.230 --> 01:29:15.390 But actually living the life that I'm preaching that we I hope we all can live with the tool like minaro, but 01:29:16.210 --> 01:29:20.730 Uh, I also see it as a blessing that I'm here at the right place at the right time 01:29:20.730 --> 01:29:24.350 And I'm able to use the skills that I have to help grow this community 01:29:24.950 --> 01:29:32.370 I'm not a developer. I'm not a programmer. I'm not a crypto, you know, a cryptologist, but a cryptographer 01:29:33.070 --> 01:29:39.850 But I think understands the tech quite well and uh, and and personally 01:29:40.410 --> 01:29:47.570 Very excited about its potential and in principled in a way where I completely aligned with what it stands for so 01:29:48.130 --> 01:29:54.650 The little the part that I can do is is what I am doing and uh, but I don't I don't think there's too many of me out there 01:29:54.650 --> 01:29:59.450 There's most of them are way too smart to be doing what I'm doing and to be out here 01:30:00.050 --> 01:30:02.150 publicly trying to promote minaro 01:30:03.030 --> 01:30:07.930 Aaron I think falls into that falls into that category not saying he he's not intelligent 01:30:07.930 --> 01:30:13.930 He certainly he certainly, uh, you know beats me in that area as well, but he seems to also be of this type 01:30:14.570 --> 01:30:18.590 Um that is out there on the front lines looking to talk about it 01:30:18.590 --> 01:30:21.330 There there needs to be people like us doing these things 01:30:21.850 --> 01:30:26.450 Otherwise we'll all be in our little our little tiny community here and never grow beyond it 01:30:27.310 --> 01:30:29.690 So do you guys think that there's a way as 01:30:30.270 --> 01:30:33.410 Um these people kind of on the front line to protect ourselves 01:30:33.410 --> 01:30:37.490 I mean, I don't know how you guys feel about like the tornado cash guy, but that to me is really scary 01:30:37.490 --> 01:30:41.670 Well, right what happened to him and I think that there's going to be more heads on the spike 01:30:41.670 --> 01:30:45.750 My mom always said oh the first people that you're rid of is the dissidents and the artists and the 01:30:46.450 --> 01:30:51.270 Intelligenceia right and so we're all at the forefront. Is there a way to kind of protect ourselves from this? 01:30:51.270 --> 01:30:55.590 I think I think one of the ways and I'll I'll sorry. I'll let you jump in room 01:30:55.590 --> 01:30:58.270 But I'll just come I think one of the ways to protect ourselves 01:30:58.270 --> 01:31:04.510 Obviously, it's important to have a large subset of the community ring remain and not us right 01:31:04.510 --> 01:31:10.070 Especially the devs the large section of the devs right so they can't even be approached the for you know 01:31:10.070 --> 01:31:15.910 They basically don't even exist. There is nobody no door to knock on right? I think that's extremely important 01:31:15.910 --> 01:31:19.150 But I think the users those of us that are just users 01:31:19.710 --> 01:31:21.950 Depending on what your attack vector is 01:31:21.950 --> 01:31:26.950 I mean if you're doing things that you shouldn't be doing with it then sure, you know stay out of the line left 01:31:26.950 --> 01:31:34.070 But if you're somebody like myself who is uh, not doing it, you know, I who doesn't have anything to hide, right? 01:31:34.490 --> 01:31:41.470 Um, you know be out there use it and use it proudly and to talk about how it aligns with the values of america 01:31:41.470 --> 01:31:44.790 And if enough of us start to talk about it openly 01:31:44.790 --> 01:31:50.910 We change the framing of it to the point where if a government were to attack somebody like me 01:31:51.430 --> 01:31:54.790 Hopefully there would be uproar not just among the you know 01:31:54.790 --> 01:32:00.270 The thousands of us that are already believers, but among general society you're saying wait a minute 01:32:00.270 --> 01:32:03.990 Don't human just seems like a guy who believes in free speech 01:32:04.450 --> 01:32:06.710 A guy who believes that we should have the freedom to 01:32:07.270 --> 01:32:12.790 Transact a guy who's just using some open source tool. I don't really see what's wrong with that 01:32:12.790 --> 01:32:18.810 That's kind of like, you know putting somebody in jail for I don't know being behind craigslist or something, right? 01:32:19.090 --> 01:32:23.390 so I do think there's that it's a potential approach is by 01:32:23.990 --> 01:32:24.730 Uh, you know 01:32:24.730 --> 01:32:30.670 Changing the framing and getting enough of us publicly talking about it in in the true positive way 01:32:30.670 --> 01:32:35.970 It should be discussed so that it doesn't have this pejorative. Um, you know 01:32:36.710 --> 01:32:40.590 Well, I have to push back on that just a little because here's the thing 01:32:40.590 --> 01:32:44.870 Where I was in DC and I interviewed some guy and he was one of the january six people 01:32:44.870 --> 01:32:49.670 He didn't do anything. He literally didn't do anything and you've got a ton of different people 01:32:49.670 --> 01:32:52.550 I mean he had scurvy. They let him out after 34 months 01:32:52.550 --> 01:32:57.330 I don't remember what he did like went in there and like he like was talking to the cops and like he didn't 01:32:57.330 --> 01:33:00.870 You know, obviously insurrect. I mean the whole thing is preposterous to begin with 01:33:00.870 --> 01:33:06.250 But he spent 34 months in prison. He got beaten up by the guards. He was treated differently 01:33:06.250 --> 01:33:08.070 He got scurvy for price sake 01:33:08.730 --> 01:33:09.130 and 01:33:09.710 --> 01:33:14.630 I mean more people way more people care about january six people than they care about us 01:33:15.130 --> 01:33:22.910 So i'm not so sure that that's enough of a protection. I mean everybody knew that what was happening to asanj was a horror 01:33:23.530 --> 01:33:28.530 And it was a disgrace and it took 10 years for him, essentially 01:33:28.530 --> 01:33:33.350 To be let out and he's still seeking a pardon because basically by letting him out 01:33:33.350 --> 01:33:37.590 They were uh, he was admitting his guilt and and so now that 01:33:37.590 --> 01:33:38.430 Um 01:33:39.010 --> 01:33:41.870 precedent has been set that they're able to do that 01:33:41.870 --> 01:33:47.270 So i'm just not so hopeful about the people like the masses of people being like, no, don't do that 01:33:47.270 --> 01:33:51.870 That's not fair has any impact on the overlords at all. Yeah, I don't disagree with you 01:33:51.870 --> 01:33:55.330 I don't disagree with you. Um, that's you know, that's what justified 01:33:55.330 --> 01:33:59.770 That's what I used to justify my existence as I could say to bring some 01:33:59.770 --> 01:34:03.410 Rational, I mean, maybe maybe what i'm doing is just purely irrational 01:34:03.410 --> 01:34:05.650 Well, I mean somebody's got to have balls 01:34:05.650 --> 01:34:12.110 So i'm glad that you're doing it like people can't be wooses and only be driven by you know fear at the end of the day 01:34:12.110 --> 01:34:12.970 We're all gonna die 01:34:12.970 --> 01:34:16.430 So if we have to die for something it might as well be something worthwhile 01:34:16.430 --> 01:34:20.630 But prefer not to die would prefer not to end up like ross olbrich 01:34:20.630 --> 01:34:23.010 You know or or any of these other poor 01:34:23.010 --> 01:34:25.670 My daughter my daughter would be quite upset 01:34:25.670 --> 01:34:29.490 Besides if I had to forward to get thrown in jail because of the narrow but 01:34:30.350 --> 01:34:36.110 Yeah, I don't know some of us some of us just have to you know one life to live Tatiana one one life 01:34:36.110 --> 01:34:39.110 I hear you. I mean, I'm not like I remember many years ago 01:34:39.110 --> 01:34:43.190 I went to jordan page another musician like liberty musician and I said jordan 01:34:43.690 --> 01:34:47.770 What's gonna happen? I don't want to go to the fema camps. He's like, oh honey, don't worry 01:34:47.770 --> 01:34:51.350 We won't go to the fema camps. I'm like, what do you mean? I'm like, I was all happy 01:34:51.350 --> 01:34:53.850 He's like, yeah, they're gonna kill us and I'm like, oh 01:34:54.470 --> 01:35:01.230 Oh, so like I think that that's kind of what we're looking at. Everybody thinks we live in this modern society and things are so cozy 01:35:01.230 --> 01:35:06.450 But I mean it looks like uh, you know, like the soviet union or something here in the united states right now 01:35:06.450 --> 01:35:12.750 So I don't know again me with the black pills, but I'm just concerned. I would prefer not to suffer 01:35:12.750 --> 01:35:15.950 I would prefer for us to all have like nice and happy lives 01:35:15.950 --> 01:35:19.210 But I don't know what that tipping point is gonna be but without the risk 01:35:19.210 --> 01:35:26.390 Of people like the people in this group and you know the some of the liberty people like we won't have any kind of 01:35:26.390 --> 01:35:29.310 Choice right there has to be a tipping point where enough people 01:35:29.770 --> 01:35:33.190 Care and you you start with smaller numbers and it grows from there 01:35:33.190 --> 01:35:37.490 But I was really horrified hearing that guy's story about what happened to him 01:35:37.490 --> 01:35:42.450 And uh, yeah, it was just really scary, you know, and it's it's happening to tons of different people 01:35:43.250 --> 01:35:46.850 It is it is it is it is very scary and yeah, basically 01:35:46.850 --> 01:35:50.990 You know, it's it's a choice that people have to make right if they you know 01:35:50.990 --> 01:35:53.090 If if if if if they're 01:35:53.090 --> 01:35:58.890 If they feel the passion enough to where they're willing to fight the fight and they're okay dealing with the consequences 01:35:58.890 --> 01:36:00.370 Then they should go for it 01:36:00.370 --> 01:36:04.150 But um, if they don't they feel like they would regret if something happened to them 01:36:04.150 --> 01:36:08.050 They shouldn't do it. I have myself. Um, you know, I'm looking to fight the fight 01:36:08.670 --> 01:36:09.130 Ruben 01:36:09.130 --> 01:36:13.570 Can I just add something there real quick? I of course I would 01:36:13.890 --> 01:36:19.610 I would just say this so the default is that we're all going to be we're going to lose our rights 01:36:19.610 --> 01:36:20.690 We've been losing our rights 01:36:20.690 --> 01:36:24.430 I mean after covet and then all the surveillance infrastructure put in there 01:36:24.430 --> 01:36:30.250 And then what's going on with our financial transactions already being surveilled of what's going on with cvdc's the way that I look at this 01:36:30.250 --> 01:36:34.850 And I guess the way I rationalize what I'm doing is the default position is slavery 01:36:34.850 --> 01:36:38.450 The default position is not that we're never going back to before 01:36:39.130 --> 01:36:43.870 Code that's not even available to us. There is no reforming of the existing political system 01:36:43.870 --> 01:36:45.110 So I look at it this way 01:36:45.110 --> 01:36:48.190 The risky thing is not doing what we're doing 01:36:48.190 --> 01:36:51.130 Because if we don't do what we're doing right now 01:36:51.130 --> 01:36:58.630 There isn't any alternative as they push cvdc's and they push all this other tyranny. So we we're providing the only possibility 01:36:59.230 --> 01:37:00.170 There is 01:37:00.170 --> 01:37:06.150 Of having a shot to not get into this complete digital tyranny. But with that said I was deeply 01:37:06.150 --> 01:37:08.410 impacted in doing all of this by 01:37:09.130 --> 01:37:15.370 Sitting in on Ian freeman's sensing hearing where he got eight months for selling bitcoin without a license and I'd actually 01:37:16.050 --> 01:37:19.430 Uh messaged roger veer and I asked him if he'd help 01:37:19.950 --> 01:37:25.010 Promote and reshare my tweet so we could get turnout and then seven and a half months later 01:37:25.010 --> 01:37:28.610 He's arrested in spain. I'm going to be launching something before 01:37:29.890 --> 01:37:34.090 Mineratopia at kind of a free roger campaign as well in a petition because 01:37:34.750 --> 01:37:37.210 What's going on with him is horrendous? 01:37:37.210 --> 01:37:43.230 Nobody knows anything about it and it literally impacts all of us because if they're able to 01:37:44.250 --> 01:37:51.210 Fully prosecute roger based on what they're doing it will affect every single person that holds cryptocurrency and every single person that holds bitcoin 01:37:52.730 --> 01:37:56.630 Do you think you could actually give us like an update as to what's going on with roger? 01:37:56.770 --> 01:38:01.330 Somebody asked me about him yesterday or a couple days ago and I honestly had no answer 01:38:01.330 --> 01:38:03.410 I was like, I don't even know what's going on with that case 01:38:03.410 --> 01:38:07.450 I don't know if other people are in the same boat, but uh other than their arrest 01:38:07.450 --> 01:38:08.790 I haven't really heard very much 01:38:08.790 --> 01:38:11.410 Which are you enlightening us a little bit if everybody's interested 01:38:11.410 --> 01:38:15.990 Hey, hey tatiana before we go on that. Do you want to hear an alternative take on your earlier? 01:38:16.010 --> 01:38:19.890 Sure, definitely, but I yeah, let's come back to roger thing, but I'd love to hear it. Absolutely 01:38:22.570 --> 01:38:23.370 Sweet um 01:38:23.370 --> 01:38:29.830 In my personal opinion the reason that all cryptos of all kinds have gotten as large as they have 01:38:30.750 --> 01:38:31.150 um 01:38:31.670 --> 01:38:33.790 Is not because they sought the 01:38:34.590 --> 01:38:39.590 assistance or alignment of any particular government organization or even any organization 01:38:40.150 --> 01:38:45.930 Uh in the world so far, right the reason that they've thrived despite material and 01:38:48.190 --> 01:38:49.630 Adversarial efforts 01:38:50.290 --> 01:38:54.110 Is because uh in order for laws or terms or preferences 01:38:54.670 --> 01:38:57.950 To mean something they need to be enforceable and so far 01:38:58.580 --> 01:39:02.310 All laws or preferences that any government has seen fit to declare 01:39:02.910 --> 01:39:05.290 Um have proven unenforceable, right? 01:39:06.090 --> 01:39:11.030 Um, and you know, like it's not a coincidence that pirate bay is still crushing it after 20 years 01:39:11.710 --> 01:39:12.330 um 01:39:13.000 --> 01:39:15.790 You know with every major government that's trying to push them 01:39:15.790 --> 01:39:16.610 um 01:39:16.940 --> 01:39:23.890 The the best way to to protect yourself and to protect the broader initiative 01:39:24.590 --> 01:39:28.790 Um from a technological aspect from a security aspect from a 01:39:29.370 --> 01:39:33.110 Um a political aspect from a cultural aspect is to use it 01:39:34.130 --> 01:39:37.290 Just just use it. That's the best thing you can do 01:39:37.930 --> 01:39:40.970 If we use it, we're wet man. If we use it, we wet, right? 01:39:42.470 --> 01:39:46.610 Yeah, I mean it's like gondi y'all know the story about gondi with the salt how 01:39:46.610 --> 01:39:50.270 Britain was like you can't make salt because we sell it to you 01:39:50.270 --> 01:39:53.370 And then gondi had this big old, you know 01:39:53.370 --> 01:39:57.450 Train and they walked out and he made some salt and suddenly it was making salt. What are you gonna do? 01:39:57.590 --> 01:39:59.630 Stop everyone jaywalking just use it 01:40:01.270 --> 01:40:02.990 I mean, I think that would be great 01:40:02.990 --> 01:40:06.350 I just want everybody to wake up because everybody so far like 01:40:06.930 --> 01:40:10.050 I like the point about it doesn't need to be so many people 01:40:10.050 --> 01:40:15.010 But i'm just saying like god if you look at how many people are at that stupid trump rally 01:40:15.010 --> 01:40:18.670 It's like jesus christ showed up himself. I mean it's really kind of embarrassing 01:40:19.170 --> 01:40:24.870 And so that's why i'm kind of disheartened with where the populace is at like they're waking up but not fully 01:40:25.570 --> 01:40:31.430 And uh, and I just worry that a lot of these kind of new lords and saviors are not really on our side 01:40:31.430 --> 01:40:36.890 And they're just kind of like controlling the narrative saying we'll just make government better like look at uh 01:40:36.890 --> 01:40:41.690 Look at this whole like make america healthy again. I'm like, I don't know sounds kind of communist to me 01:40:42.210 --> 01:40:46.910 Like I don't know. I mean people are like, oh, well, then they'll ban the red seven and the blue 14 01:40:46.910 --> 01:40:48.410 I guess that could work 01:40:48.410 --> 01:40:51.590 But I don't know that that does seem to be a little bit sketchy too 01:40:51.590 --> 01:40:56.430 But I hear you I think that there's a lot of power and just simple disobedience 01:40:56.430 --> 01:40:58.730 And it's like yeah come and take it suckers 01:40:59.770 --> 01:41:08.170 So, you know, we we definitely are building a bunch of people out in in this uh group here and through other kind of groups 01:41:08.170 --> 01:41:13.170 That are also passionate about these same subjects. I get discouraged with censorship 01:41:13.710 --> 01:41:16.790 Which I still find is prevalent on a lot of different platforms 01:41:17.490 --> 01:41:19.590 I guess x is better than in other places 01:41:19.590 --> 01:41:22.310 But then I feel like seeing some censorship 01:41:22.310 --> 01:41:25.250 It kind of makes people think that they're in a free place 01:41:25.250 --> 01:41:29.210 But they're not because it's just less censored than other places. So they become complacent 01:41:30.130 --> 01:41:33.970 But I think that there's a lot of good solutions that you guys are talking about and uh, 01:41:34.430 --> 01:41:36.470 You know, there's some hope there but overall 01:41:37.090 --> 01:41:37.950 I'm just grumpy 01:41:38.670 --> 01:41:43.570 I'm just like I'm tired of people just being like looking for like a solution with government 01:41:43.570 --> 01:41:46.150 And it's just sickening and annoying and I'm just over it 01:41:46.150 --> 01:41:50.010 Yeah, like let them have let them have any opinion that they could possibly want 01:41:50.010 --> 01:41:55.610 Show me one time where any initiative by any government official in any country 01:41:56.310 --> 01:41:58.670 Um has materially impacted 01:41:59.770 --> 01:42:00.970 I mean 01:42:01.730 --> 01:42:04.870 Any like meaningful aspect of crypto 01:42:05.370 --> 01:42:07.530 You know what actually I have a caveat to that 01:42:08.650 --> 01:42:13.110 Isolating certain cryptocurrencies as assets versus, uh, you know 01:42:13.750 --> 01:42:18.170 Means of exchange or like there's been like a couple of things but like nothing's really moved the needle 01:42:18.850 --> 01:42:21.570 Uh, I just don't understand why 01:42:22.230 --> 01:42:26.290 Well, people are inclined to obey. That's the other problem, right? Like you don't like 01:42:26.930 --> 01:42:33.470 Like one of the annoying things that I found is that like the judges and courts and pops all both 01:42:35.370 --> 01:42:36.830 Oh and Stolf, I'm gonna 01:42:38.250 --> 01:42:43.990 Good luck with that loser because that's the whole thing like you tell the cops. Oh, somebody stole my car. Here's their picture 01:42:43.990 --> 01:42:45.250 They don't do anything 01:42:45.250 --> 01:42:47.870 So I think that we're kind of under this illusion 01:42:48.330 --> 01:42:53.390 In general, like the people are under this spell like they watch tv and they think that they know what's going on 01:42:53.390 --> 01:42:55.890 They watch their, you know, law and order. Oh, yeah 01:42:55.890 --> 01:43:00.450 I mean and then they think that oh, well now I'm going to tell the police if something's wrong and they're going to do something 01:43:00.450 --> 01:43:05.110 About it. So I think there's there's definitely an awakening and as the system falls apart 01:43:05.110 --> 01:43:08.970 Like even seeing what's happening in north carolina and how useless fema is 01:43:08.970 --> 01:43:13.890 I think that's really good for people in terms of like the larger group of people learning that. Oh, wow 01:43:13.890 --> 01:43:18.470 Maybe we can't depend on these people. So, um, you know, I think as things fall apart 01:43:18.470 --> 01:43:21.430 We might have some some more people coming over to our team 01:43:22.350 --> 01:43:26.090 So like no one's is going to change in my opinion. I think 01:43:26.630 --> 01:43:29.450 Everyone that is smart is already here 01:43:30.250 --> 01:43:33.370 And yeah, there may be some stragglers that are need to arrive 01:43:34.170 --> 01:43:34.990 but overall 01:43:35.970 --> 01:43:38.410 The the only choice we have left 01:43:39.230 --> 01:43:42.090 Is to sigh up people the masses 01:43:42.770 --> 01:43:45.970 The npcs the people you just um describe tatiana 01:43:46.530 --> 01:43:48.210 You got to sigh up them into 01:43:48.890 --> 01:43:50.170 using good technology 01:43:51.250 --> 01:43:54.410 That's that's really that has been my conclusion and 01:43:55.070 --> 01:43:58.270 And the way to do that is by embracing 01:43:58.980 --> 01:44:03.050 The stupidity that everyone else is embracing within crypto 01:44:04.080 --> 01:44:06.210 so you can't 01:44:06.210 --> 01:44:06.590 um 01:44:07.940 --> 01:44:09.910 Express or talk or market 01:44:10.800 --> 01:44:11.990 crypto that you love 01:44:12.960 --> 01:44:18.630 In a way that targets the people that are already here because you're not going to expand your your reach 01:44:19.180 --> 01:44:21.550 You're you're just going to keep talking to the same 01:44:22.240 --> 01:44:25.510 People but if you embrace the stupidity of the masses 01:44:25.510 --> 01:44:30.230 You'll be able to sigh up people because now you're dealing with a world that is 01:44:30.870 --> 01:44:31.930 that is um 01:44:33.010 --> 01:44:35.430 You're in a in a in a war of sigh ups 01:44:36.030 --> 01:44:38.270 So you have to counter sigh up 01:44:38.950 --> 01:44:42.230 By and it's really simple. It's just by having fun 01:44:42.930 --> 01:44:45.770 Just think of like the craze with meme coins 01:44:46.550 --> 01:44:47.510 so if you start 01:44:48.350 --> 01:44:53.490 For example, if the monero community starts embracing meme coins and treats 01:44:54.170 --> 01:44:59.270 Monero as a meme coin and does an excellent job at it 01:45:00.070 --> 01:45:01.190 Then the 01:45:01.910 --> 01:45:03.350 network can expand 01:45:04.230 --> 01:45:12.550 Easily double in size in my opinion, but you have to be great. He's making like a pump dot fun for monero that I don't know about 01:45:13.350 --> 01:45:16.170 But you'll have to have a sigh up for your consideration 01:45:16.910 --> 01:45:21.970 Uh mean coins maybe but what if what if we just had things 01:45:22.610 --> 01:45:27.110 And then refuse to sell them for anything but monero. I like that 01:45:27.110 --> 01:45:29.150 I love that 01:45:29.730 --> 01:45:33.750 Dude, that is awesome. Maybe I'm gonna talk about that. Maybe with the team 01:45:35.030 --> 01:45:39.830 Just force people to buy with monero. That's not bad. Um, that's not a bad idea 01:45:39.830 --> 01:45:45.270 Um, the thing is is that it depends. Look, this is the the real issue here guys is the following 01:45:45.890 --> 01:45:50.730 Is that there is a different understanding between what digital cash is for? 01:45:51.450 --> 01:45:55.590 and the monero community the privacy coin community in general 01:45:56.490 --> 01:45:57.210 is still 01:45:58.010 --> 01:46:03.650 Caught on within the idea that a digital currency is to be used in real life 01:46:04.670 --> 01:46:07.050 In with real world assets 01:46:07.890 --> 01:46:10.430 And what we are learning right now is is that 01:46:11.310 --> 01:46:12.750 people are so desperate 01:46:13.450 --> 01:46:15.790 for you know as you know people are 01:46:16.590 --> 01:46:20.130 As time goes on and and people are more desperate economically 01:46:20.130 --> 01:46:25.530 They're going to be seeking outlets to the real world economy to make profit. They're seeking 01:46:26.190 --> 01:46:28.250 asymmetrical bets in the market 01:46:28.810 --> 01:46:36.210 And we have the emergence of these of the imagination economy that people are calling like tatiana said pump dot fun 01:46:37.110 --> 01:46:41.490 I know that sounds retarded to a lot of you because it is 01:46:42.070 --> 01:46:43.110 but in order to 01:46:45.790 --> 01:46:49.890 Where human creativity is going you have to be willing to go there 01:46:50.510 --> 01:46:54.030 Lord of the Rings was just an idea in Tolkien's mind 01:46:54.670 --> 01:46:56.110 Now there is a tourist 01:46:56.910 --> 01:46:59.330 um attraction where you can go and visit 01:47:00.010 --> 01:47:06.950 uh, we're Frodo journeyed in where the film was was was was taken in new zealand to mount doom, right? 01:47:08.130 --> 01:47:13.770 A tourist attraction came out of someone's imagination and what we have to realize is is that 01:47:14.230 --> 01:47:19.250 our creative potential as human beings is to be expressed 01:47:20.410 --> 01:47:23.810 On chain or in the on the internet 01:47:25.210 --> 01:47:34.230 Digital assets allow us to create these economies that then later on will manifest themselves in physical space 01:47:35.430 --> 01:47:39.490 We've learned over and over again that it does not work the other way 01:47:40.050 --> 01:47:43.270 Using real world assets to have a counter 01:47:43.270 --> 01:47:44.270 existence 01:47:45.330 --> 01:47:47.230 in in digital space 01:47:47.790 --> 01:47:52.710 The origin the origination of of ingenuity does it doesn't come from 01:47:53.470 --> 01:47:55.650 The physical boomer space anymore 01:47:56.430 --> 01:48:01.150 And and I think that the if you guys really want to grow and expand 01:48:02.350 --> 01:48:05.410 um, you there you have to understand that there is a 01:48:05.970 --> 01:48:09.250 Meta counter culture now that has happened in crypto 01:48:09.250 --> 01:48:14.510 So you us right here speaking we're talking from a generation of first users 01:48:15.050 --> 01:48:19.370 Where we still have this anonymous ambiance about what happened, right? 01:48:19.770 --> 01:48:22.590 there is the reality of fiat which is like 01:48:23.290 --> 01:48:25.850 This this is negative but serious 01:48:26.510 --> 01:48:33.190 It has a seriousness to it and we we have a counter culture to that which is the cypher punk counter culture 01:48:33.750 --> 01:48:35.750 That is best manifested in monero 01:48:39.410 --> 01:48:44.390 Where's that there's a new level of seeing that I want to that I really want you guys to consider 01:48:44.390 --> 01:48:46.750 Which is to make fun of the whole thing 01:48:47.870 --> 01:48:50.670 That is what the the kids now are doing 01:48:50.670 --> 01:48:53.310 They saw what happened with us 01:48:53.970 --> 01:48:57.610 They saw that there was a dollar. They saw that there was a big coin 01:48:57.610 --> 01:49:01.790 They saw that there was monero and they saw that the dollar could be opposed 01:49:02.750 --> 01:49:08.230 But they understood that what they didn't like and what they that the young generation doesn't like is 01:49:08.230 --> 01:49:13.670 The seriousness by which we talk about this by which we engage this 01:49:15.390 --> 01:49:18.830 So they're taking this to the next level conceptually 01:49:19.610 --> 01:49:20.410 which is 01:49:21.250 --> 01:49:28.930 Money could be just a token of fun. It doesn't have to have this allure of seriousness every anymore 01:49:30.270 --> 01:49:30.790 So 01:49:31.490 --> 01:49:34.790 We have to break out of that shell and and and really 01:49:35.330 --> 01:49:35.650 and 01:49:36.210 --> 01:49:37.570 join with the fun 01:49:38.150 --> 01:49:40.750 And I and that's kind of like what I really want 01:49:41.410 --> 01:49:45.290 People to to really explore, you know, at least we open to it 01:49:45.870 --> 01:49:50.450 Because if if we're still talking within this dichotomy that involves 01:49:51.230 --> 01:49:51.750 seriousness 01:49:52.530 --> 01:49:56.830 And we're never going to break out of that shell. We're never going to inspire anyone else 01:49:56.830 --> 01:50:01.390 Especially the young generation the young generation of of crypto 01:50:02.290 --> 01:50:06.490 Entrepreneurs and adopters don't care for this vibe anymore 01:50:07.230 --> 01:50:10.050 Those that care for this vibe are us that are here 01:50:10.050 --> 01:50:13.130 That understand the gravitas of what we're talking about 01:50:13.530 --> 01:50:18.070 But in order to reach a wider audience and to onboard people to awesome tech 01:50:18.550 --> 01:50:24.890 You don't need to have that conversation anymore. You can put that conversation on the mental nursery home 01:50:25.470 --> 01:50:28.010 Okay, that was like a conversation to be had 10 years ago 01:50:28.010 --> 01:50:29.890 We know it exists 01:50:29.890 --> 01:50:33.650 But what I'm I'm imploring you guys and everyone listening is like guys 01:50:33.650 --> 01:50:36.290 We don't have to be so serious about this anymore 01:50:36.290 --> 01:50:39.050 Like the smarter way to approach this 01:50:39.510 --> 01:50:42.830 Is by making fun and having fun 01:50:43.990 --> 01:50:51.970 Like really embrace mean coins and start seeing Monero as just another mean coin and have fun with it 01:50:53.070 --> 01:50:55.190 I mean, I guess I guess I 01:50:55.190 --> 01:50:59.450 Disagree with this. Okay. So rat Rafael will be at the conference 01:50:59.450 --> 01:51:03.750 We had a actually a good conversation about this a couple weeks ago. People want to listen to you tell 01:51:04.950 --> 01:51:06.110 It's an interesting take 01:51:06.890 --> 01:51:13.690 But ultimately, you know, I think you know the young kids. They also might be cool with dystopia 01:51:14.350 --> 01:51:21.250 And technocracy. So they got to be woken up. They can't they can't be just we can't we can't we can't be dragged down 01:51:21.250 --> 01:51:24.070 There road just because everybody else is getting, you know 01:51:24.070 --> 01:51:30.890 Going down this dopamine rush tech technocratic dystopia doesn't mean we should all you know go along with it too 01:51:31.340 --> 01:51:35.610 I think we got to be the adults in the room and teach people why privacy matters 01:51:36.100 --> 01:51:41.890 Why technocracy is so real and remind people why this stuff is so utterly important 01:51:41.890 --> 01:51:43.750 I mean, we could have fun while we're doing it 01:51:43.750 --> 01:51:50.150 But I don't think there's anything more fun than teaching people about the need to preserve our liberty and the digital age and 01:51:50.710 --> 01:51:55.570 The real use case is just using this stuff. I mean meme coins also. Yeah, it's great 01:51:55.570 --> 01:51:57.530 It's great. You know if there's ways that 01:51:57.530 --> 01:52:00.590 Monero can be more memafied for sure 01:52:01.270 --> 01:52:06.170 But uh, I don't think we should let the you know, let the masses distract us 01:52:06.710 --> 01:52:07.790 from the mission 01:52:09.590 --> 01:52:12.590 Well, and I would just add to that that you know 01:52:12.590 --> 01:52:14.530 The young people don't have any money 01:52:15.150 --> 01:52:16.790 And they don't value privacy 01:52:16.790 --> 01:52:22.710 So boomers are actually because I've traveled the 24 states and most of these workshops that I do 01:52:22.710 --> 01:52:24.990 Are boomers and nothing tells you about 01:52:24.990 --> 01:52:30.310 Where we stand and actually trying to onboard 100 or 200 boomers at one time 01:52:30.310 --> 01:52:34.270 We need to have so we haven't tapped out all the market at all 01:52:34.270 --> 01:52:38.570 We haven't even begun to tap out the market because kovat happened 01:52:38.570 --> 01:52:41.690 And then the dollars lost 25 of its value 01:52:41.690 --> 01:52:43.630 Purchasing power in the last four years 01:52:43.630 --> 01:52:47.930 So boomers now understand and especially boomers who are small business owners 01:52:48.510 --> 01:52:52.550 They're looking for alternative payment systems. We have nothing to offer 01:52:53.230 --> 01:52:55.310 As far as a point of sale system is concerned 01:52:55.310 --> 01:53:01.790 So what we need to focus on is actually having easy to use tools and going to the people that actually have money 01:53:01.790 --> 01:53:08.310 And understand privacy. That is a wide open market. There are tens of millions of those people in the united states 01:53:08.310 --> 01:53:10.950 I meet them all of the time. These are these are what my 01:53:11.490 --> 01:53:15.670 Workshops revolve around but on the mean coinage job would say this. Here's the problem that I have with this 01:53:15.670 --> 01:53:17.970 We're doing mean coins, which are zero 01:53:17.970 --> 01:53:22.470 Stumb propositions. They're all Ponzi's. They're all rug pulls. There's no economics 01:53:22.470 --> 01:53:25.310 I mean, I think we have a whole generation of people that don't understand 01:53:26.070 --> 01:53:30.030 Voluntary exchange where both parties actually benefit and I don't blame them 01:53:30.030 --> 01:53:34.050 They've been indoctrinated and they've had to deal with the consequences of the federal reserve 01:53:34.050 --> 01:53:37.670 But while they've been promoting mean coins 01:53:38.490 --> 01:53:43.630 Regulated liability network and cbdc's are going on real world assets are being tokenized 01:53:43.630 --> 01:53:47.010 And they're being tokenized in a way that is completely 01:53:47.650 --> 01:53:49.930 dystopian that have all of the programmability 01:53:50.410 --> 01:53:54.710 And censorship that we all don't like about cbdc's 01:53:54.710 --> 01:53:59.910 They're doing this with all of the other asset classes and they're investing hundreds of millions of dollars 01:54:00.470 --> 01:54:04.450 To build this and and all people are doing on our side are are flipping 01:54:04.450 --> 01:54:08.210 It's a lot of mean coins and so we're going to end up in a situation where 01:54:08.870 --> 01:54:10.450 Again, everybody's going to get crushed 01:54:10.910 --> 01:54:15.010 And regulated out of business and all of the assets are going to be on this common global framework 01:54:16.750 --> 01:54:22.250 Well, if the vibe was fun, you would have tons of thousands of people listening to this post right now 01:54:22.250 --> 01:54:23.330 You wouldn't have to host 01:54:24.050 --> 01:54:29.650 A conference in physical space. You we would be a lot more efficient and a lot more viral 01:54:29.650 --> 01:54:33.010 So make fun, man. I mean make it make it fun to our area 01:54:33.570 --> 01:54:41.870 Definitely, I thought I'm filling this little bit. The amount of water is just it's just changing the mindset of like how you approach and how you 01:54:42.870 --> 01:54:45.590 Embrace the market, you know, it's it's uh 01:54:46.250 --> 01:54:52.350 No one is saying I'm not saying to do away with what really matters or not teach what really matters 01:54:52.990 --> 01:54:55.930 But rather understand what Tatiana was saying 01:54:56.550 --> 01:54:59.790 That most people have been conditioned to be stupid 01:55:00.570 --> 01:55:04.190 So meet them where they're at meet them at that stupidity at that level 01:55:05.270 --> 01:55:08.810 I I guess I would say go with the typical adoption curve where 01:55:09.570 --> 01:55:14.710 Innovators represent the first two and a half percent. Then you have early adopters that are 13 and a half percent 01:55:14.710 --> 01:55:22.970 Then you have early majority, which is 34 percent late majority, which is 34 percent and then ligers all ideas follow an adoption curve 01:55:22.970 --> 01:55:25.870 Let's focus on galvanizing the two and a half percent 01:55:25.870 --> 01:55:32.250 Rather than try to sigh up the mass market because that's not how any any technology or idea progresses anyway 01:55:32.970 --> 01:55:35.830 What should we do? Well narrow hasn't really grained much 01:55:36.570 --> 01:55:42.430 Since it last hit all the time I so what always been done has not been working 01:55:42.430 --> 01:55:46.170 Beyond what has it's like repeating the same thing over and over again, right? 01:55:46.450 --> 01:55:49.070 Repeating the same arguments repeating the same two market strategies 01:55:49.760 --> 01:55:51.310 So you sooner or later 01:55:52.050 --> 01:55:53.910 You know and I commend you for doing what you're doing 01:55:53.910 --> 01:55:58.670 But sooner or later you got to figure out, you know ask yourself. Well, okay, how about we try another strategy, right? 01:55:58.890 --> 01:56:00.030 That's all I'm proposing here 01:56:01.450 --> 01:56:09.110 Well, I disagree to the extent that I think that the strategy employed by Monero promoters is if anything ahead of its time 01:56:09.110 --> 01:56:15.390 Because up to this point there wasn't much demand for the kind of privacy that Monero provides 01:56:15.950 --> 01:56:22.610 And for a long time it's been fine to just be on this public ledger because nobody taught that blockchain analysis will catch up 01:56:22.610 --> 01:56:26.130 Well, it did catch up and I think at this point in history 01:56:26.910 --> 01:56:27.170 there 01:56:27.730 --> 01:56:32.410 I I don't think that there was ever a moment when demand for privacy was this high 01:56:32.410 --> 01:56:36.970 From the situation in brazil to what's happening in the middle east 01:56:37.590 --> 01:56:41.770 I think it's only a matter of time until demand catches on and 01:56:42.490 --> 01:56:47.270 I'm pretty sure that there is some suppression coming from nation states or 01:56:47.930 --> 01:56:50.750 Private actors that don't want Monero to succeed 01:56:50.750 --> 01:56:54.770 So I'm pretty sure that they are shorting it on certain markets 01:56:55.430 --> 01:57:00.930 And they're making sure that the price doesn't hit all time high specifically because they're afraid of it 01:57:05.920 --> 01:57:09.800 Yeah, all of that is true. Everything you guys are saying is is very true 01:57:10.480 --> 01:57:12.140 But you guys are very much 01:57:12.720 --> 01:57:14.300 Have you guys seen the bell curve me? 01:57:14.780 --> 01:57:18.580 We have the jedi the guy frustrated in the middle and then there's like the retard 01:57:19.340 --> 01:57:25.320 You know the grok on the left side of the curve. Well, the vast majority of people on the left side of the curve 01:57:27.120 --> 01:57:28.300 That's just the truth 01:57:30.040 --> 01:57:34.580 So by all means try to get more people that are already on the right side of the curve 01:57:34.580 --> 01:57:36.380 Then understand what's going on 01:57:36.900 --> 01:57:38.380 But if you want to go viral 01:57:39.640 --> 01:57:41.420 Just remember sequoia capital 01:57:42.280 --> 01:57:47.820 Went after, you know, they're famous for what they put out, you know that they go after things, you know tech 01:57:47.820 --> 01:57:49.480 They reinvest in tech that promotes 01:57:50.160 --> 01:57:56.800 Bites is right seven capital sins, right for a purpose for a reason, right because that is what the masses 01:57:57.400 --> 01:58:03.220 Are attracted to the conditioned psi off masses are attracted to I'm not saying to go degen 01:58:03.220 --> 01:58:07.340 I'm not saying to to throw away your morals or not teach 01:58:07.960 --> 01:58:09.280 No, it's it's a lure 01:58:09.960 --> 01:58:11.080 How do you 01:58:11.820 --> 01:58:12.680 Get this 01:58:13.140 --> 01:58:17.800 How do you get this as an introduction to people that have never heard of this before? 01:58:18.480 --> 01:58:20.460 And in order to do that, you have to 01:58:21.080 --> 01:58:23.140 Be okay to embrace your inner retard 01:58:23.600 --> 01:58:29.280 And the problem with the monero community is that it's so smart that just me talking about this will trigger some like 01:58:29.280 --> 01:58:33.700 No, no, no, no, we have to be pure. We have to be very concrete. We have to talk about what matters, but 01:58:34.480 --> 01:58:37.360 I'm just letting you know that a lure of seriousness 01:58:37.960 --> 01:58:39.200 Drives people away 01:58:39.840 --> 01:58:44.220 Especially the conditioned the masses most people in the monero community would just say 01:58:45.000 --> 01:58:46.820 um, you know if you if you have 01:58:47.640 --> 01:58:50.360 Something some idea that you think would 01:58:51.120 --> 01:58:56.520 Uh, I'll help monero grow in adoption and just you know start running with that idea 01:58:56.520 --> 01:58:58.520 And if if it does in fact do that 01:58:59.120 --> 01:59:05.180 Um, I don't think there'd be more people behind you than uh, and you would it's you know than otherwise, right? 01:59:05.180 --> 01:59:11.380 So it's like what what is the idea right so like anybody could say let's make let's make monero more fun and attractive like so like 01:59:11.380 --> 01:59:14.380 Obviously, yeah, like let's grow monero adoption, but how 01:59:14.980 --> 01:59:20.920 What is the how there's also the monero tan meme with the anime girls who are wearing monero costumes 01:59:21.740 --> 01:59:27.220 And it's fun to a degree. I think it does appeal to the fortune sort of audience 01:59:27.220 --> 01:59:30.140 But it's also a need to it and a need 01:59:34.080 --> 01:59:34.680 You 01:59:34.680 --> 01:59:37.960 Rafael do you have do you have specific thoughts on what what the what this 01:59:38.480 --> 01:59:43.980 How this can be implemented, you know, how how do you envision making it more meme side? 01:59:47.560 --> 01:59:55.600 I mean i'll just off the cuff imagine an nft series that had um, monero 01:59:56.480 --> 02:00:00.180 So randomly thrown into various different nfts 02:00:00.820 --> 02:00:02.740 Say something like that could be fun 02:00:03.500 --> 02:00:06.120 And then you could start trading wrapped monero 02:00:06.680 --> 02:00:12.000 On these blockchains one thing you guys I know in the monero community. I haven't heard anyone talk about this 02:00:12.640 --> 02:00:12.940 but 02:00:13.580 --> 02:00:20.240 Trading see the where the where the whole space is moving is that the space is moving away from centralized exchanges 02:00:20.780 --> 02:00:23.240 We're turning blockchains into exchanges 02:00:24.280 --> 02:00:24.960 so 02:00:27.040 --> 02:00:30.360 The bitcoin itself could be seen as an exchange 02:00:31.300 --> 02:00:33.100 with a greater market cap than 02:00:33.880 --> 02:00:39.360 Anything binance would ever have because there's more people that control their private keys than there is 02:00:39.880 --> 02:00:42.440 Of bitcoin held in custody in binance 02:00:43.200 --> 02:00:51.020 So if you treat bitcoin or solana as exchanges then why aren't you guys why aren't there people? 02:00:52.720 --> 02:01:01.900 You you know trading wrapped monero on those exchanges and maybe having fun by having like games with through 02:01:04.900 --> 02:01:06.220 Monero pegged 02:01:07.640 --> 02:01:08.960 nfts for example 02:01:09.870 --> 02:01:12.840 so as you know all of this it comes down to just 02:01:13.880 --> 02:01:16.700 thinking outside the box and realize that 02:01:18.620 --> 02:01:19.820 It's it's in 02:01:21.020 --> 02:01:25.560 It's by gamifying these these uh this experience that you go viral 02:01:26.600 --> 02:01:30.300 It's not by buying or coffee with monero 02:01:30.960 --> 02:01:34.220 That's that that doesn't go viral. I'm sorry that doesn't go by 02:01:35.180 --> 02:01:35.340 that 02:01:38.420 --> 02:01:40.700 That's not something that goes viral anymore 02:01:41.500 --> 02:01:48.220 But if goes viral to what end I mean who cares I mean the reality is we're facing an actual crisis where 02:01:48.720 --> 02:01:51.220 Currency itself is becoming more centralized 02:01:51.820 --> 02:01:54.960 More tracked and the government is trying to shut down on everything else 02:01:54.960 --> 02:01:59.420 If you have something that goes viral and people are doing nfts. How does that stop? 02:02:00.020 --> 02:02:07.120 The fundamental issue and the fact that our currency is turning into a dystopian nightmare just because something goes viral doesn't mean that 02:02:07.120 --> 02:02:11.960 You're going to go from oh, this is an nft now. I'm going to start using it as peer-to-peer digital cash 02:02:17.700 --> 02:02:19.560 Well, you can keep doing what you're then doing 02:02:19.560 --> 02:02:21.920 Or you guys can try to approach it 02:02:21.920 --> 02:02:23.180 We can try both 02:02:24.000 --> 02:02:27.000 I mean people can probably give you a whole suggestion 02:02:27.000 --> 02:02:32.380 This is just a conversation that i'm throwing out there since you know, you guys that we're talking 02:02:32.380 --> 02:02:33.960 Tatiana brought the notion that 02:02:34.520 --> 02:02:38.460 People won't change then she's these people being conditioned like that 02:02:38.460 --> 02:02:40.960 She really wants people to wake up, right? 02:02:41.320 --> 02:02:45.720 Because if everyone woke up and understood the reality as you so well articulate erin 02:02:45.720 --> 02:02:49.960 Then we wouldn't have to have this conversation. But the truth is is that we have a bunch of 02:02:51.400 --> 02:02:53.060 Zombie zombified addicted 02:02:54.240 --> 02:02:54.760 masses 02:02:56.560 --> 02:03:02.240 So I guess like addiction you have to make dopamine addiction your friend is what i'm telling you 02:03:06.380 --> 02:03:09.380 Monero with some sort of dopamine addiction 02:03:10.300 --> 02:03:13.780 Whoever unlocks that whoever tries different things of that 02:03:14.520 --> 02:03:17.060 That's a way to make this whole network more viral 02:03:18.600 --> 02:03:24.120 I think it's great that they're here on this app because of your own dopamine addiction 02:03:25.040 --> 02:03:26.620 Everyone is being styop 02:03:28.420 --> 02:03:33.120 And if you don't counter styop if you don't use these technologies if you don't use 02:03:34.620 --> 02:03:39.120 Degeneracy and this dopamine addiction to lead people to more wholesome networks 02:03:39.120 --> 02:03:42.500 Then you're gonna you're gonna have the same zombified people 02:03:43.780 --> 02:03:47.140 Move towards more of a dystopia of using 02:03:47.780 --> 02:03:51.580 Centralized networks with high surveillance. So it's our choice 02:03:52.080 --> 02:03:52.660 do we 02:03:53.540 --> 02:03:59.500 Do we remain rigid and just talk about digital cash and that you should just spend monero whenever you buy coffee 02:04:00.260 --> 02:04:02.760 Or do you embrace the world as is? 02:04:03.060 --> 02:04:08.520 Factor the stupidity of the masses into your equation of how to promote this 02:04:08.980 --> 02:04:11.680 Or you don't and I think it's wise 02:04:12.440 --> 02:04:13.700 The factor in 02:04:14.320 --> 02:04:15.920 The dopamine addiction of the men 02:04:16.760 --> 02:04:21.620 Yeah, I don't think buddy would disagree with you if you have some invention some way of 02:04:23.320 --> 02:04:29.900 Implementing dopamine a dopamine inducing apps that utilizes monero. I mean build it 02:04:29.900 --> 02:04:34.800 Build it. I don't think yeah. I don't think anybody disagrees there or would want it would not want to build that 02:04:34.800 --> 02:04:37.620 I mean in terms of like, you know 02:04:38.260 --> 02:04:43.260 Focusing by coffee with monero. I mean it's it's much larger than that, right? 02:04:43.340 --> 02:04:46.820 It's people living off the monero, right? So we started with coffee 02:04:47.340 --> 02:04:52.880 And now we have xmr bizarre where it's it's not maybe quote-unquote going viral 02:04:52.880 --> 02:04:57.780 In terms of what we're normally used to being what's viral these days, but it is 02:04:58.340 --> 02:05:02.360 Growing in a very healthy way more listings and more users every day 02:05:03.060 --> 02:05:06.060 And every new listing and every new user 02:05:06.780 --> 02:05:11.820 Um is somebody that's opting out of the system. So they're not only 02:05:12.380 --> 02:05:16.520 Growing monero, but they're killing the current system by leaving it 02:05:16.920 --> 02:05:20.420 And so that's that's the real that's the real goal 02:05:20.420 --> 02:05:25.760 If there's ways to memify that if there's apps to build that get people to do that in 02:05:26.460 --> 02:05:34.420 Faster by all means or if there's any any way to just create a fun viral app that you know ties into what monero does best 02:05:34.420 --> 02:05:35.200 Which is cheap 02:05:36.280 --> 02:05:37.240 private transactions 02:05:38.140 --> 02:05:43.940 Yeah, and I don't think anybody would be opposed to that and it's an open source tool that anybody can build with to build upon 02:05:44.800 --> 02:05:50.580 Um, yeah, people are listening to what rafael has to say is down and is an enthused by it and has ideas 02:05:51.300 --> 02:05:52.140 Go build 02:05:52.140 --> 02:05:54.100 Well, let me give you then 02:05:54.100 --> 02:05:56.320 The framework on how to cook 02:05:56.900 --> 02:05:57.900 first and foremost 02:05:58.540 --> 02:06:05.140 You cook things that are on chain. So you marry another blockchain that is more capable like btc or solana 02:06:05.980 --> 02:06:09.640 Um to do whatever you want it on chain open source 02:06:10.300 --> 02:06:11.800 And let it be interoperable 02:06:12.420 --> 02:06:17.400 So people can wrap monero into these blockchains and use these blockchains as exchanges 02:06:18.300 --> 02:06:21.840 What isn't that you cook you cook things that are simple to cook 02:06:22.920 --> 02:06:28.660 That are new things I have not been seen before as new as possible and you seek liquidity 02:06:28.660 --> 02:06:31.880 You seek an asymmetric bet not just for the creators 02:06:32.740 --> 02:06:37.360 The first users are folders, but also for the users on day one 02:06:39.880 --> 02:06:47.680 The funding and the co-creative ethos that we are seeing happening with on chain endeavors is is is um 02:06:47.680 --> 02:06:50.500 It's just a breeding ground for these ideas 02:06:51.820 --> 02:06:57.620 So I would be very wise if anyone is interested in this to go learn from the solana community go learn from the 02:06:58.220 --> 02:07:01.300 Bitcoin on chain community really go embrace that 02:07:01.820 --> 02:07:03.080 you'll learn a lot of things 02:07:03.840 --> 02:07:04.760 and um 02:07:06.700 --> 02:07:09.740 So you want to cook things on chain open source interoperable 02:07:10.200 --> 02:07:14.680 You want to be you want you want these what you cook needs to be simple new and liquid 02:07:16.140 --> 02:07:16.600 and 02:07:19.760 --> 02:07:25.720 Yeah, you just want you want this to be an whatever you build has to be 02:07:27.460 --> 02:07:33.140 An experience where everyone has a potential to win so it's not you know if you create a game 02:07:33.140 --> 02:07:38.620 It's not it shouldn't be a 50 50 odds of winning everyone should be winning from day one 02:07:39.240 --> 02:07:42.860 And you're inviting everyone to co-create this together on chain 02:07:49.560 --> 02:07:50.320 All right 02:07:50.320 --> 02:07:53.780 If any if there's any devs out there that are that are hearing this 02:07:54.380 --> 02:07:57.580 Build build away. I don't yeah, I don't think anybody would disagree with 02:07:57.580 --> 02:08:00.160 you roughly all on on the need for 02:08:00.740 --> 02:08:01.260 perhaps 02:08:02.140 --> 02:08:09.320 Somebody to find the killer app the Monero based killer app is it is the Monero based killer app just using it for 02:08:09.900 --> 02:08:13.700 Digital cash purposes for buying and selling things. I don't know maybe not 02:08:14.360 --> 02:08:20.460 But I think that's that's its primary use case as a as of today and it's something to tap into 02:08:20.460 --> 02:08:25.840 But yeah, there's if there's other things that are that are more sexy more dopamine inducing 02:08:26.940 --> 02:08:28.480 But love to see them get built 02:08:30.120 --> 02:08:36.780 Anybody else want to jump up and ask questions? I see some people got booted as speakers. So I'll bring them back up 02:08:37.600 --> 02:08:39.180 Um, if there's 02:08:39.740 --> 02:08:41.460 Anybody else that wants to come up 02:08:41.980 --> 02:08:44.120 Now's the time raise your hand and we'll bring you up 02:08:45.020 --> 02:08:49.840 Hey guys, I actually just wanted to to say goodbye because I have to go right now 02:08:49.840 --> 02:08:52.840 but um, this was a great conversation old friends and 02:08:53.320 --> 02:08:57.340 uh, make some new ones and uh, I encourage everybody to come and join us 02:08:57.340 --> 02:09:00.320 I think it's going to be rocking and uh, I'll try and have some 02:09:00.320 --> 02:09:04.820 I actually have a new cover song that I'll I'll be playing that I think you guys will be familiar with 02:09:04.820 --> 02:09:09.500 That will be on on brand. So we'll stay in you know, we'll stay in touch online 02:09:09.500 --> 02:09:11.960 And then I'll get to see you guys all in mexico city 02:09:12.500 --> 02:09:17.220 So thank you very much for inviting me on the spaces and down to mexico and i'm looking forward to 02:09:17.780 --> 02:09:21.260 Uh, getting my stuff onto that marketplace you've got too. So that'll be fun 02:09:22.500 --> 02:09:25.720 Thank you. That's yada. Thank you for stopping by today giving us your time 02:09:25.720 --> 02:09:29.120 It's super excited to chill with you down in mexico in aerotopia 02:09:30.280 --> 02:09:30.760 Um 02:09:31.580 --> 02:09:37.420 Thanks, everyone. Yes, very excited to see you soon. Thank you so much. Tatiana. Thank you. Yep 02:09:38.920 --> 02:09:42.160 Um, yeah, anybody else want to jump up? Um 02:09:44.180 --> 02:09:49.920 Please do now is the time now is the time we have just to you know, just to give everybody an idea here 02:09:49.920 --> 02:09:53.640 So we have just a few of the speakers from the aerotopia here 02:09:53.640 --> 02:09:57.020 But there are many many more that will be at monarotopia. We have 02:09:57.020 --> 02:10:01.200 Francisco Cabanas, Luke Parker, Justin Bierman, Jeff Rowe 02:10:01.200 --> 02:10:06.420 Those are all monaro devs that will be there speaking and we'll be doing panels as well 02:10:06.420 --> 02:10:10.760 We have a mere toky will be representing dark thigh and just you know 02:10:10.760 --> 02:10:14.380 A true cypher punk has been in the game from very early days one of the first 02:10:15.020 --> 02:10:21.540 You know, monaro, uh bitcoin devs actually we have rocktonium who's a monaro, uh lab researcher 02:10:21.540 --> 02:10:25.240 We have pavel looptech. We have who's a 02:10:27.080 --> 02:10:28.040 Libertarian and 02:10:29.980 --> 02:10:35.560 Cypher punk crypto anarchists old school. We have Rachel rose from dark thigh. We have Ralph von 02:10:36.180 --> 02:10:41.740 Wegberg. He's he's a pretty cool dude. He's been doing studying how monaro is used on a dark markets 02:10:41.740 --> 02:10:44.140 He's done some great presentation on that in the past 02:10:44.740 --> 02:10:47.580 Uh, so he'll be giving us some amazing insights. We have Liam Egan 02:10:47.580 --> 02:10:51.740 Who's a researcher and cryptographer at alpin labs? 02:10:52.600 --> 02:10:59.420 We have val crypto soul from zano and actually the the whole zano team will be there. We have lola elites 02:11:00.140 --> 02:11:04.560 Independent journalists. She's done a great job at writing about the 02:11:05.240 --> 02:11:10.420 Recent court cases like tornado cash and samurai wallet. They're very base takes 02:11:11.280 --> 02:11:16.840 She will be presenting. We have michael hazard and tor eaklin from the 02:11:17.700 --> 02:11:19.280 firm tor eaklin law 02:11:20.140 --> 02:11:25.300 Super awesome guys. They'll be there talking from a legal standpoint. We have sterlin luhann 02:11:25.880 --> 02:11:30.860 Uh, which probably a lot of you have come across now recently. He's doing a great job 02:11:30.860 --> 02:11:36.960 It's spreading kind of the the crypto anarchists and just the anarchist vibe and generally have derrick bros and john bush 02:11:37.880 --> 02:11:39.760 Founders of the freedom cell network 02:11:40.480 --> 02:11:45.700 Uh, and among among many other things that they're doing as as freedom fighters our day, of course 02:11:45.700 --> 02:11:48.320 Who's here with us today set for privacy? 02:11:49.520 --> 02:11:55.840 Uh, john murphy from wild narrow ruben yap from fero rafael. Who's here? Obviously jeff burrick 02:11:55.840 --> 02:11:59.000 Hopefully we'll be joining him. We have con grayho 02:11:59.000 --> 02:12:05.400 He's the communication speakers from basic swap basic swap is a dex that's uh growing in popularity 02:12:05.400 --> 02:12:09.900 It's based on atomic swaps people are using it to obtain venero anonymously 02:12:10.480 --> 02:12:19.540 We have wood sir. Who's the lead developer of the veno? Veno is uh, kind of is basically it's venero based 02:12:20.440 --> 02:12:21.000 exchange 02:12:23.180 --> 02:12:29.820 Decentralized, you know, everybody running their own soft software their own instance of veno. It's unstoppable something that can't be shut down 02:12:30.540 --> 02:12:37.440 Uh, it's not it's not uh atomic swap base, but um, it is it is unstoppable and it's in its own right 02:12:37.440 --> 02:12:40.780 and it's it's being used and growing for purposes of 02:12:41.700 --> 02:12:48.620 Trading venero into other cryptos peer-to-peer. So it puts buyers and sellers together peer-to-peer kind of kind of like 02:12:49.280 --> 02:12:54.220 Local venero, but in a decentralized way where there's no centralized company running it 02:12:54.220 --> 02:13:01.160 Uh, so that's very exciting. We have andres and a swale of bitcoin who will be running the spanish component of the conference 02:13:01.160 --> 02:13:05.720 So we'll have a bunch of talks in spanish as well for locals and all of this guys 02:13:05.720 --> 02:13:09.640 I got to mention is uh sponsored our main stage sponsor 02:13:10.360 --> 02:13:13.980 Is cake wallet, uh, definitely have to mention that but for them 02:13:13.980 --> 02:13:18.000 We wouldn't be able to take these risks and put on these amazing conferences 02:13:18.000 --> 02:13:20.960 We have a bunch of other amazing sponsors on board 02:13:20.960 --> 02:13:24.880 But kind of call a cake while because they are the main space main stage sponsor 02:13:25.560 --> 02:13:32.600 And bit main actually is uh our other main stage sponsor. They haven't they haven't paid their their bill yet 02:13:32.600 --> 02:13:37.840 But they uh, they said they're in they said they're the main stage sponsors. So super excited to have them 02:13:38.320 --> 02:13:42.580 Uh, especially given that venero is built to be acic resistant 02:13:42.580 --> 02:13:49.740 So very curious and interesting that they're uh and interested as to as to why they're they want to be a part of 02:13:49.740 --> 02:13:52.860 Monero topia, but uh, we welcome them and are excited to hear from them 02:13:53.440 --> 02:13:58.960 And hopefully we'll I'll have them on a monero talk or monero topia to get there get their point 02:13:58.960 --> 02:14:00.500 But just wanted to get all that info out there 02:14:00.500 --> 02:14:02.560 That's why we're here today trying to spread the conference 02:14:03.480 --> 02:14:10.320 Uh, I see some people that requested. I'll let you guys do some chatting and uh, we'll close it down in a little bit 02:14:10.320 --> 02:14:12.460 But let's let's keep it going out things are pretty hot 02:14:12.460 --> 02:14:14.900 We've got a bunch of people in the room guys like and share 02:14:15.340 --> 02:14:20.560 We're gonna let let people come up ask some questions to vlad and our new still here 02:14:21.060 --> 02:14:23.720 And rafael and whoever else wants to jump up 02:14:24.220 --> 02:14:26.140 Go ahead guys whoever wants to 02:14:27.080 --> 02:14:27.920 jump in 02:14:28.620 --> 02:14:33.000 Maybe, uh, I see john as a speaker I brought up john 02:14:35.600 --> 02:14:37.300 I see the laser eyes 02:14:37.300 --> 02:14:40.640 So I don't know we might we might be getting a bitcoin take here, which is fine 02:14:41.920 --> 02:14:43.860 Bitcoiners are welcome john. What's going on man? 02:14:48.120 --> 02:14:50.760 Oh looks like you got booted i'll try again 02:14:52.500 --> 02:14:53.560 John are you there? 02:14:57.320 --> 02:14:59.260 John with the laser eyes and the lightning 02:15:00.640 --> 02:15:01.160 Oh 02:15:01.160 --> 02:15:07.300 What's up guys are you listening to me? I'm having some problems with vpn here. No worries. No worries 02:15:09.520 --> 02:15:10.560 Yeah, uh 02:15:10.560 --> 02:15:12.500 Twitter is banned from Brazil 02:15:12.500 --> 02:15:16.500 In fact, the day he started today. I think you're not be 02:15:16.500 --> 02:15:18.900 Not need vpn again 02:15:20.500 --> 02:15:21.540 So, uh 02:15:21.540 --> 02:15:23.480 I just came up to say 02:15:23.480 --> 02:15:26.420 Because the other guy was talking about 02:15:28.840 --> 02:15:34.240 Dopamine and uh, I think a cool way to have a dopamine on another 02:15:34.880 --> 02:15:41.580 For monero is integration with noster because noster is I don't know because vlad's there 02:15:42.500 --> 02:15:43.560 mostly is 02:15:44.240 --> 02:15:45.400 used for 02:15:45.940 --> 02:15:50.920 with lightning tips, but there is there are instances of 02:15:50.920 --> 02:15:51.380 Uh 02:15:53.120 --> 02:15:56.180 There are an app called 02:15:57.600 --> 02:16:00.280 Garnet that has uh 02:16:00.280 --> 02:16:04.000 monero tips and a linked uh 02:16:04.520 --> 02:16:10.320 Website called mostard. That's a noster clients with modern integration too 02:16:10.900 --> 02:16:12.560 So I think building 02:16:13.420 --> 02:16:19.300 centralized noster applications clients with monero is a great way to have a dopamine and 02:16:19.300 --> 02:16:21.580 We don't need to use 02:16:22.840 --> 02:16:24.080 X so much 02:16:24.820 --> 02:16:26.500 So that's just it 02:16:27.980 --> 02:16:34.460 All right, very cool. Great idea is crypt of vigilati ever response to that. I don't know. I mean noster is obviously, uh 02:16:35.680 --> 02:16:43.800 Very very ideal in terms of uh, you know, decentralized privacy perspective, but does it does it 02:16:44.520 --> 02:16:48.360 Does it tickle the fancy in terms of being easy to use? 02:16:48.860 --> 02:16:51.700 For these dopamine-seaning kids that just want 02:16:52.260 --> 02:16:52.960 you know 02:16:53.960 --> 02:16:57.680 I gotta correct you there because it's not very good for privacy 02:16:58.220 --> 02:17:02.980 In the sense that anyone can see who sent you tips and who sent you dms 02:17:02.980 --> 02:17:08.220 But they cannot see the content of the dms. So in some regards, it's worse than twitter 02:17:08.840 --> 02:17:14.040 It's just good for censorship resistance. And that's what it was built for. Good point. Good point 02:17:14.040 --> 02:17:19.480 But also, I guess the point I'm trying to make though is is so is it does it also get the usability aspect? 02:17:20.220 --> 02:17:20.660 correct 02:17:22.160 --> 02:17:28.640 There are a couple of apps that you can install on pretty much every OS and it I think it's gotten better 02:17:28.640 --> 02:17:30.660 It's more reliable than it was before 02:17:32.080 --> 02:17:34.880 It just so the reason why I don't like it 02:17:34.880 --> 02:17:38.120 I mean, I like it for what it is, but I don't use it as much 02:17:38.120 --> 02:17:43.860 For the simple reason that the people I hate or the people with whom I argue on twitter 02:17:44.040 --> 02:17:50.560 Are not there. So it's just a friendly safe space where people get around and they have fun and giggles 02:17:51.120 --> 02:17:55.680 And they post memes and it's just an echo chamber. And I would like the people like 02:17:56.340 --> 02:17:59.080 the president of dcb or 02:17:59.660 --> 02:18:05.600 The politicians or web right troll on twitter. I would like to see them on noster, but we're not there yet 02:18:06.180 --> 02:18:06.740 Right 02:18:06.740 --> 02:18:10.040 The tabs are there. We can't control them 02:18:11.400 --> 02:18:15.860 But another thing is at the Scott's app called amethyst 02:18:16.740 --> 02:18:20.220 It's integrating a lot of privacy features. For example, these dms 02:18:21.860 --> 02:18:28.360 They do not are not seeing if you're using amethyst or another app called 0x chat 02:18:28.800 --> 02:18:32.520 Or there is a nip that doesn't make it visible 02:18:33.480 --> 02:18:37.260 Amethyst also integrated tor inside the app. So 02:18:38.020 --> 02:18:40.280 It does not leak rfe 02:18:41.160 --> 02:18:42.920 It's just a question of 02:18:42.920 --> 02:18:44.200 Bringing more 02:18:44.760 --> 02:18:49.260 developer of privacy should make it noster better for privacy too 02:18:55.480 --> 02:18:59.200 Right. Very cool. Very cool. Yeah, I don't know if rafael has any response to that 02:19:01.240 --> 02:19:03.500 Ruben I see your request to speak to headman 02:19:04.900 --> 02:19:05.800 Yeah, so 02:19:08.120 --> 02:19:14.760 I like manero. I like I I've always loved manero. I think I might like manero more than any other want actually 02:19:15.320 --> 02:19:17.240 Which is weird for agnostic to say 02:19:17.820 --> 02:19:24.760 But there's something just so pure and hardcore and middle finger about it. Like it really I you know what it is 02:19:24.760 --> 02:19:29.280 It's the cypher punk. It's the cypher punk that vibes with the 02:19:29.880 --> 02:19:31.060 We'll do it live 02:19:32.820 --> 02:19:33.380 So 02:19:33.380 --> 02:19:36.500 And so there's that part but like 02:19:37.280 --> 02:19:40.500 Then I bring it up because like it when thinking about 02:19:41.220 --> 02:19:42.440 products goods and services 02:19:43.180 --> 02:19:48.180 Or sort of economic pods or incentive pads and so on and so forth 02:19:49.000 --> 02:19:50.640 That one might 02:19:51.460 --> 02:19:59.260 You know historically use in a traditional software perspective from a different software perspective or like social media technology or you know at the crypto 02:20:00.320 --> 02:20:02.540 You know projects and center out on different chains 02:20:03.840 --> 02:20:06.020 Fundamentally structured for different purposes, right 02:20:07.060 --> 02:20:09.260 Without mentioning any names 02:20:11.740 --> 02:20:14.140 It's there's a lot of like mechanical stuff 02:20:14.760 --> 02:20:21.260 Where the kinds of features and functionality that you that you might seek on other platforms may not necessarily vibe 02:20:21.740 --> 02:20:25.940 With the underlying principles of what manero was structured around right so 02:20:26.800 --> 02:20:30.460 You know basically any any additional information that you're adding to a transaction 02:20:31.260 --> 02:20:34.600 To an extent that it can be sort of verifiable on chain 02:20:35.270 --> 02:20:36.520 um, and 02:20:37.340 --> 02:20:41.560 It could reduce the relative security of any particular transaction might be perfect 02:20:41.560 --> 02:20:46.280 It has unique characteristics. So, you know, even if it's something as simple as 02:20:46.280 --> 02:20:51.740 You know, if I if I put my name in the the tx transaction, then you'll know it's me 02:20:51.740 --> 02:20:56.520 It's in it, but you know at the same time it will stop being an honest, right? 02:20:57.280 --> 02:21:01.160 Um still it makes me wonder whether or not some of the 02:21:02.100 --> 02:21:06.880 Some of the properties around the the mixing element in terms of like, um ring signatures 02:21:08.840 --> 02:21:12.620 Could it be possible to leverage the ring signature mechanism 02:21:13.480 --> 02:21:16.740 to create a kind of, um 02:21:17.500 --> 02:21:18.540 noise generator 02:21:19.500 --> 02:21:22.880 for multiple parties who seek to 02:21:23.400 --> 02:21:26.420 interact with various pieces of software on the internet 02:21:26.940 --> 02:21:31.940 But who don't want those pieces of software to know specifically who's accessing them 02:21:32.420 --> 02:21:33.940 and so they create a ring 02:21:33.940 --> 02:21:35.100 a ring 02:21:36.660 --> 02:21:41.200 mechanism so that the it's kind of like a weird sort of shared VPN almost 02:21:42.000 --> 02:21:42.300 where 02:21:43.660 --> 02:21:46.760 The piece of software so it's a lot around here 02:21:48.200 --> 02:21:53.220 The software in question, whether it's, you know, a social media site or something else 02:21:54.040 --> 02:22:02.100 Can't exactly interpret who which part of this particular ring is interacting with it at any particular time 02:22:03.020 --> 02:22:09.040 Because much of the same way that it uses ring signatures to sort of distribute 02:22:11.360 --> 02:22:12.080 The 02:22:14.240 --> 02:22:15.980 The nature of the transaction 02:22:17.040 --> 02:22:22.700 Almost like an onion router sort of spreads spreads the the attack surface across multiple nodes 02:22:23.220 --> 02:22:24.740 I wonder whether something could be done 02:22:25.300 --> 02:22:30.260 To allow for individuals to interact with systems that very much seek your personal information 02:22:30.900 --> 02:22:33.420 But in this case couldn't get access to it 02:22:33.420 --> 02:22:40.080 Um, because you're using kind of the same account, but not really does that make any sense? 02:22:41.840 --> 02:22:46.160 Yeah, I think I'm following you but uh, yeah once again, man, you need to come down 02:22:46.160 --> 02:22:52.340 I'm gonna ask ask the devs which are much much more much more intelligent than I am 02:22:52.340 --> 02:22:56.820 And I will say also remember we are getting full chain membership proofs. So 02:22:57.720 --> 02:23:00.980 Um, I don't I don't think while it's an interesting idea 02:23:00.980 --> 02:23:07.020 I think hopefully we won't have to really think about ways to make ring signatures work better soon because it's 02:23:07.600 --> 02:23:11.200 The you know with full chain membership proofs. They basically get deprecated 02:23:12.100 --> 02:23:14.460 But interesting concepts that you're bringing up for sure 02:23:18.220 --> 02:23:19.540 Yeah, I certainly think they're like 02:23:20.300 --> 02:23:23.260 You know anytime somebody asks something around 02:23:23.920 --> 02:23:27.200 A particular currency like well, why haven't you done this? Why haven't you done that? 02:23:28.160 --> 02:23:31.340 Um, I try to do two things one is I try to listen 02:23:32.300 --> 02:23:33.260 First to heart 02:23:33.940 --> 02:23:35.500 As much as I don't want to 02:23:36.080 --> 02:23:38.580 Because I'm old and and crotchety 02:23:39.100 --> 02:23:40.800 And I know better, but I actually 02:23:40.800 --> 02:23:44.380 You're sorry, um, uh, well, I like to feel that like I know better 02:23:44.380 --> 02:23:52.560 Um, uh, but I also look I try to ask the same questions of more popular currencies like the dollar, right like 02:23:53.760 --> 02:23:56.800 What did they try to do with the dollar was going viral? 02:23:57.360 --> 02:24:01.900 Um, you know, if we go back to currencies earlier than that, right? Um, there's a there's this old book 02:24:02.700 --> 02:24:05.320 Uh called debt the first 5000 years 02:24:05.900 --> 02:24:11.500 It's written by an economist and it's bad. It's a it's a boring book. I don't recommend it read 02:24:11.500 --> 02:24:14.100 I I got passed that got like two-thirds 02:24:14.760 --> 02:24:21.640 Into debt the first 5000 years this this very boring book. Um, but it talks about how 02:24:22.640 --> 02:24:23.320 Um 02:24:23.320 --> 02:24:25.300 Many moons ago 02:24:26.280 --> 02:24:28.820 Some of the earliest coinage stories 02:24:29.740 --> 02:24:32.140 Um detailed a scenario where a king 02:24:32.940 --> 02:24:38.940 Um had a big old army and he turned up and uh, he said hey everybody. I'm the new 02:24:39.540 --> 02:24:41.100 Dude in town with the big old army 02:24:42.360 --> 02:24:44.120 And we're gonna protect all of you 02:24:45.280 --> 02:24:46.620 Mostly from us 02:24:47.740 --> 02:24:51.960 But I tell you what, um, I I kind of need to you know, feel all these 02:24:52.480 --> 02:24:58.100 These soldiers. So I tell you what um part of the deal with my uh, you know protection 02:24:59.020 --> 02:25:03.080 Is uh, is that you're gonna have to you're gonna have to pay these things. We're gonna call in taxes 02:25:03.600 --> 02:25:05.480 And the only way you can pay taxes 02:25:06.140 --> 02:25:10.080 Is with these tiny little pieces of metal with my face on them 02:25:11.000 --> 02:25:14.420 And uh, if you don't know how to get them, I mean, I guess that's on you 02:25:14.420 --> 02:25:17.440 But I will tell you that I'm giving one of them 02:25:17.960 --> 02:25:20.980 To every soldier and my army every month 02:25:21.700 --> 02:25:23.220 So if you want to get one 02:25:24.100 --> 02:25:29.200 Um, I guess you should probably feed clothes and you know look after them, right? 02:25:30.260 --> 02:25:32.340 And this was sort of the the means 02:25:32.900 --> 02:25:38.980 Uh by which to you know pressure the local population and becoming a fiefdom and ultimately a nation presumably 02:25:39.800 --> 02:25:43.620 Um, I don't know if that's the vibe that we want to take with Manero per se 02:25:45.120 --> 02:25:50.700 But it does say something about, um, I I think 02:25:52.380 --> 02:25:52.900 View 02:25:54.120 --> 02:25:57.760 We can try to sort of woo people into Manero 02:25:58.680 --> 02:26:01.440 Um, and that's possibly one one way to do it 02:26:02.240 --> 02:26:07.480 You know, we've been working on a new dance move recently. We can give I'll I'll bring it along to the conference 02:26:07.480 --> 02:26:09.900 Make catch on right 02:26:10.960 --> 02:26:11.520 um 02:26:12.200 --> 02:26:14.980 But um, but it also occurs that like 02:26:15.520 --> 02:26:17.820 Were the Manero community to come up with 02:26:18.560 --> 02:26:20.400 If not products goods and services 02:26:21.340 --> 02:26:23.780 Right or oil or rice or something 02:26:24.440 --> 02:26:28.520 That is real world assets, which um, I believe daylight was talking about earlier 02:26:29.280 --> 02:26:35.420 Um, which was my personal approach, right? I think I think hard economics is the appropriate path for this particular thing 02:26:36.120 --> 02:26:36.580 Um 02:26:37.420 --> 02:26:42.060 Um, then perhaps by other means right and I'm I'm thinking in particular 02:26:42.640 --> 02:26:45.180 What are the features and functions that? 02:26:46.620 --> 02:26:51.460 You know people appear to want but no traditional organization 02:26:52.320 --> 02:26:55.420 Um has been doing a good job or every time they 02:26:56.140 --> 02:26:58.700 Do a good job, you know, they sell out to 02:26:59.360 --> 02:27:03.000 The businesses and then they sell out the businesses to their shareholders 02:27:03.600 --> 02:27:07.540 And across is uh, what corey doctoro would call in-suitification 02:27:08.220 --> 02:27:10.320 uh, I'm talking in particular of 02:27:10.320 --> 02:27:12.060 companies like facebook and 02:27:12.700 --> 02:27:16.660 More recently x and so on where they provide this wonderful service up front 02:27:17.200 --> 02:27:19.320 And then over time it dilutes 02:27:19.320 --> 02:27:24.620 Uh, the way it dilutes is they stop showing you the things that you came there for and instead 02:27:24.620 --> 02:27:27.960 So you add and then at some point 02:27:27.960 --> 02:27:32.840 Um, they have enough ads that they start, you know making the ads more expensive 02:27:33.560 --> 02:27:38.680 And service of their shareholders and so on and so forth like it's there's there's a conflict of incentives here 02:27:39.500 --> 02:27:45.060 um, that uh seems to reliably correlate to the degree of concentration of power 02:27:45.640 --> 02:27:48.340 and in particular the um 02:27:49.080 --> 02:27:52.540 The failure to delineate the first party discovery experience 02:27:52.980 --> 02:27:56.720 From a third party curation experience, right? 02:27:57.600 --> 02:28:01.660 um, I don't know about you but the last time I I searched google for 02:28:02.420 --> 02:28:04.100 um, I think it was t-shirt 02:28:04.640 --> 02:28:08.200 I had to scroll for 27 screens on my phone 02:28:08.820 --> 02:28:14.140 Before I got something that wasn't an ad and I believe it was the wikipedia page for t-shirt technology 02:28:15.300 --> 02:28:20.600 Um, and I don't I don't remember that was the the google that I grew up with. Um, why do I bring that up? 02:28:20.600 --> 02:28:21.280 uh 02:28:22.640 --> 02:28:24.040 Because I wonder whether 02:28:25.020 --> 02:28:29.420 There are other features and functions which do not require 02:28:30.360 --> 02:28:35.480 um, personally identifiable information to be input into a system 02:28:36.440 --> 02:28:38.980 But that would be materially valuable 02:28:39.740 --> 02:28:44.480 To an individual particularly an individual who wanted to say uh anonymous or private 02:28:45.300 --> 02:28:47.500 uh presumably um 02:28:48.440 --> 02:28:53.080 That if the only way to get this thing was to get manara to pay for it 02:28:53.820 --> 02:28:54.220 uh 02:28:56.100 --> 02:28:56.820 Right like 02:28:57.680 --> 02:28:59.080 I mean, it does feel a little 02:29:00.200 --> 02:29:04.720 Corporationaly does feel like a little part of the part of the beauty of manara to be is that it's so simple 02:29:05.240 --> 02:29:10.520 You know, I think I think complexity kills and try to over complicate stuff and 02:29:11.080 --> 02:29:12.320 all of a sudden you're 02:29:12.820 --> 02:29:15.660 you know, we're in a uniform or something but um 02:29:16.460 --> 02:29:19.460 It I feel as though there are a number of 02:29:20.220 --> 02:29:21.260 technical challenges 02:29:22.000 --> 02:29:26.680 uh, and not not not just technical challenges like economic challenges and cultural challenges 02:29:27.340 --> 02:29:29.060 uh in in recent years 02:29:29.680 --> 02:29:34.040 That anybody could say but step up to the plate to um, but 02:29:34.620 --> 02:29:39.160 You know to the extent that there was an organization that was able to solve them structurally by protocol 02:29:39.760 --> 02:29:43.960 As opposed to on the application layer with a powerful proprietary platform 02:29:44.680 --> 02:29:49.540 Um, then I I imagined that that protocol would um 02:29:50.180 --> 02:29:56.300 Be well received by perhaps it perhaps even virally received. You know sam 02:30:02.180 --> 02:30:04.820 I do I do some some good thoughts there 02:30:05.480 --> 02:30:10.660 Ruben, let me ask you man. You said you you've been in batik. You said you were in bitcoin since 2009 02:30:11.220 --> 02:30:13.600 That's that's pretty pretty one. That's the case 02:30:14.220 --> 02:30:16.860 Um, what so what's kind of your overall thing? 02:30:16.860 --> 02:30:23.060 You said like manero is one of your favorite about your favorite because of the the cypher punk vibes 02:30:23.800 --> 02:30:29.640 Um, but overall kind of what's your crypto to like your your manero take right you've been here from the beginning 02:30:31.240 --> 02:30:36.200 Um, manero, we're seeing it getting delisted from exchanges. I imagine you expected that to happen 02:30:36.740 --> 02:30:42.620 But give us give us your waiting waiting for it. Absolutely. I predicted that give us your wisdom man 02:30:42.620 --> 02:30:44.680 Give us your wisdom. You've been around for a long time 02:30:44.680 --> 02:30:50.120 You have perspective that none of us here have I mean maybe some get close, but 2009 02:30:50.860 --> 02:30:54.680 Is this is pretty fucking early man. So give give us your perspective 02:30:55.660 --> 02:31:00.860 Your full full full global view if I was an astronomer, so I would have hodled 02:31:01.800 --> 02:31:06.640 Uh, but I have been around for a while. I'd say what um, I've seen a lot of cycles 02:31:06.640 --> 02:31:11.060 I saw the the first cycle which was you know number go up. I saw mount gox 02:31:11.980 --> 02:31:17.400 Um, I was you know mount gox was handling 40 of all crypto transactions 02:31:17.980 --> 02:31:20.200 Uh, which at the time was just one change with bitcoin 02:31:20.820 --> 02:31:28.100 Uh, I was I was around for the mount gox collapse. I was I was cheering that because that's when I was really kind of get really 02:31:28.100 --> 02:31:31.260 You know falling in love with bitcoin at the time and cheering on cheap 02:31:31.800 --> 02:31:38.240 Potentially cheap bitcoin. Uh, uh history repeats, doesn't it? Um, well, I mean it rhymes 02:31:39.160 --> 02:31:39.640 um 02:31:40.500 --> 02:31:43.080 Yeah, and and so I think I think sovereign 02:31:43.900 --> 02:31:44.820 sovereign ownership 02:31:45.360 --> 02:31:47.380 Um, is a is a is a theme here 02:31:47.900 --> 02:31:49.920 um, and it's really 02:31:50.600 --> 02:31:52.820 The power of digital technology 02:31:52.820 --> 02:31:56.400 The the power of electrons as opposed to the power of molecules 02:31:57.240 --> 02:31:59.120 Um, is that you can do 02:32:00.380 --> 02:32:07.520 A lot through automation that you can't very very quickly that you that would take a a lot of humans and a lot of labor 02:32:07.520 --> 02:32:09.040 to be able to achieve otherwise 02:32:09.960 --> 02:32:13.400 And it's it's given rise to business models that 02:32:13.400 --> 02:32:16.080 um in particular have a theme of 02:32:16.900 --> 02:32:18.740 Instead of doing one really hard thing 02:32:19.440 --> 02:32:23.380 They make it easier for other people to do things and they just they just take a little bit of the pie 02:32:23.380 --> 02:32:27.480 Do a lot of things and they just have a very small part of the thing, right? 02:32:28.740 --> 02:32:29.620 and and 02:32:30.220 --> 02:32:33.820 Overall in the macro it tends to lead to rent seeking type behavior 02:32:35.320 --> 02:32:36.200 um and 02:32:36.920 --> 02:32:40.820 You know, we have a lot to be thankful for in terms of communication technologies 02:32:41.400 --> 02:32:43.740 And applications like voice over IP 02:32:44.440 --> 02:32:50.440 Or derivatives they were out of like like x which allows us to speak to all sorts of interesting people on the other side of the world at any given moment 02:32:51.040 --> 02:32:54.060 Um, but the strings that come along with that 02:32:54.780 --> 02:32:55.300 um 02:32:55.300 --> 02:32:58.700 To the extent that they are held by specific 02:32:59.320 --> 02:33:01.320 persons with specific stakeholders 02:33:01.920 --> 02:33:04.160 whose uh interests may not align 02:33:04.820 --> 02:33:08.800 With all stakeholders as much as they do shareholders, right? 02:33:09.620 --> 02:33:09.920 um 02:33:10.420 --> 02:33:14.460 That that can create tensions and conflict which I truly believe 02:33:14.460 --> 02:33:15.320 um 02:33:16.120 --> 02:33:19.340 Sovereignty is the only rule solved for right? 02:33:20.260 --> 02:33:24.280 um a good example of that that of something that's happening right now is in the world of 02:33:24.280 --> 02:33:25.760 LLMs and AI 02:33:26.480 --> 02:33:29.000 Where the only ones who have enough compute 02:33:29.640 --> 02:33:33.020 Um enough money and to pay for the energy bills 02:33:33.680 --> 02:33:36.400 Are a very small subset of companies 02:33:37.020 --> 02:33:41.280 And so did we have this really powerful technology coming down the pipeline that 02:33:41.940 --> 02:33:43.380 It really isn't 02:33:43.380 --> 02:33:48.780 I mean beyond llama like there isn't there isn't a lot of strong open source alternatives for 02:33:49.500 --> 02:33:55.580 Um, which creates a degree of asymmetry in this ecosystem. You have some rates natural sort of disparity 02:33:56.400 --> 02:33:58.420 Um in the broader ecosystem, right? 02:33:59.340 --> 02:34:02.320 And so I don't know how long it's going to take before we have 02:34:03.100 --> 02:34:04.800 sovereign LLMs or sovereign AI 02:34:05.460 --> 02:34:09.140 I certainly would like it to be able to do a google search without the ads 02:34:09.660 --> 02:34:11.640 Right the the final head blocker 02:34:12.220 --> 02:34:12.740 um 02:34:12.740 --> 02:34:17.080 But the theme here I guess is to wrap it all up together and tie it together 02:34:17.760 --> 02:34:19.800 Um is sovereignty, right? 02:34:20.460 --> 02:34:20.780 um 02:34:20.780 --> 02:34:25.060 What a lot of people don't understand about sovereignty certainly in the early days is that 02:34:25.600 --> 02:34:26.120 with 02:34:26.940 --> 02:34:31.960 Sovereign power comes out for the responsibility, right? Um, it's you know 02:34:33.220 --> 02:34:35.660 Yes, yes, it's not your keys. It's not your wallet 02:34:35.660 --> 02:34:38.680 But also, you know, actually your keys and you lose your key 02:34:38.680 --> 02:34:44.000 There's no customer service fam like there's like that's that's you know comes with the 02:34:44.540 --> 02:34:48.380 Comes the territory. So, um, I think that we're 02:34:49.420 --> 02:34:51.520 You know to the extent that 02:34:52.540 --> 02:34:55.660 There's that old phrase which is the future is already here 02:34:56.800 --> 02:34:59.360 But it's just not even I'm not even redistributed 02:34:59.360 --> 02:35:05.520 I think that's true of old technologies, but I think in particular with um data sovereignty 02:35:06.250 --> 02:35:09.540 when um monetary subsidy sovereignty 02:35:10.070 --> 02:35:10.440 um 02:35:11.470 --> 02:35:15.100 Private interact private private transactions so on and so forth. Um 02:35:15.950 --> 02:35:16.620 They're not 02:35:17.360 --> 02:35:21.400 Sexy, but I don't really think they need to be 02:35:21.910 --> 02:35:27.980 To matter there's a lot that matters that isn't sexy, right taxes aren't sexy 02:35:28.680 --> 02:35:30.040 Rent isn't sexy 02:35:31.160 --> 02:35:32.680 Bricks and and 02:35:33.420 --> 02:35:37.160 Oil isn't sexy, but you can be damn sure that people, you know 02:35:38.040 --> 02:35:39.500 Seek them, right? 02:35:40.220 --> 02:35:42.140 And so I think you know 02:35:42.940 --> 02:35:46.080 I'm I don't say this to suggest that we shouldn't 02:35:46.080 --> 02:35:48.420 Try any particular novel approach 02:35:49.000 --> 02:35:51.400 Um, I certainly think we should and in fact the more the better 02:35:51.400 --> 02:35:52.420 um 02:35:53.940 --> 02:35:55.220 To the extent 02:35:55.820 --> 02:35:56.640 That we do 02:35:57.200 --> 02:35:59.420 Uh, I I hope that it doesn't dilute 02:35:59.820 --> 02:36:02.540 The core ethos, um, and I have confidence 02:36:03.280 --> 02:36:05.460 in the manara community who have been 02:36:06.380 --> 02:36:10.620 10 foil hat levels of solid like prepper levels of solid 02:36:11.600 --> 02:36:13.760 For the last what two decades now 02:36:14.320 --> 02:36:15.180 uh, just about 02:36:15.700 --> 02:36:16.160 uh 02:36:16.680 --> 02:36:22.460 That you know if anybody's gonna sort of you know stick the grind whether it's this generation of the next man 02:36:22.460 --> 02:36:26.340 Honestly, like I I I am surprised to see 02:36:26.880 --> 02:36:32.300 The wallet count the aggregate wallet count across all chains to be in the hundreds of millions. I would have thought 02:36:33.060 --> 02:36:34.100 maybe millions 02:36:34.840 --> 02:36:36.920 But within it within the first 10 years 02:36:37.680 --> 02:36:40.740 Um, but it's it's you know tour does magnitude above that 02:36:41.340 --> 02:36:45.500 So, you know if it doesn't get to eight billion, you know by next quarter 02:36:46.340 --> 02:36:49.420 That is eight pillar end humans on you know 02:36:49.960 --> 02:36:50.840 on a 02:36:50.840 --> 02:36:57.920 One or multiple chains. That's fine. Um, good things take time, but uh, I would say, uh 02:36:58.860 --> 02:37:00.520 I would encourage folks to zoom out 02:37:01.180 --> 02:37:01.700 um 02:37:02.600 --> 02:37:03.640 and um 02:37:04.300 --> 02:37:07.960 You know focus on what matters and if you really want to get excited 02:37:08.560 --> 02:37:11.240 If you sell things raise the prices 10% 02:37:11.840 --> 02:37:15.200 And then give people a 10% discount if they buy them in there 02:37:15.200 --> 02:37:16.160 I 02:37:17.820 --> 02:37:24.360 Love it, man. I love it. Thank you Ruben. Uh, thanks for popping in any chance. We see you down at minaretopia 02:37:25.680 --> 02:37:26.980 Yes, non-zero 02:37:28.060 --> 02:37:29.060 All right 02:37:29.760 --> 02:37:30.580 Fantastic fantastic 02:37:31.320 --> 02:37:37.280 I think well if you haven't gotten your ticket already make sure you use code blad24 for a discount. Yes 02:37:37.280 --> 02:37:39.520 Yes, please use blad 24 02:37:40.280 --> 02:37:43.800 That that also that will help help blad pay his bills 02:37:43.800 --> 02:37:48.780 As well. So, please please do consider using blad 24 as your promo code 02:37:49.260 --> 02:37:54.380 When you purchase your minaretopia ticket whether in person or virtue buying it at minaret 02:37:54.380 --> 02:37:58.680 A virtual conference ticket as well much rather people tend to person 02:37:58.680 --> 02:38:02.480 But we did add that as well for people that want to participate virtually. I'm sorry Ruben go ahead 02:38:03.100 --> 02:38:07.440 This is a buying at a minaret right like you guys except solana kidding. I'm kidding 02:38:07.440 --> 02:38:08.240 Uh 02:38:10.160 --> 02:38:12.640 Minero obviously preferred we accept minaret 02:38:12.640 --> 02:38:15.680 We do accept there are ways to pay with other cryptos and then it gets 02:38:15.680 --> 02:38:21.520 Instantly swapped into minaret and sent that along to us. We accept minaret only minaret only 02:38:22.220 --> 02:38:24.920 Which currency are you least proud to accept? 02:38:26.220 --> 02:38:31.680 Uh, whatever the instant exchanger is excited. I don't even know man. I'm sure there's some major shit coins out there 02:38:31.680 --> 02:38:33.340 Some major shit coins 02:38:33.340 --> 02:38:38.680 But you could pay natively with minaret using the minaret gateway that we have built into 02:38:39.740 --> 02:38:43.200 Our e-commerce website minaretopia.com and then we use 02:38:43.740 --> 02:38:49.020 Uh, I believe now payments is our the instant exchanger that we're using where you could use any other crypto 02:38:49.020 --> 02:38:53.720 You possibly couldn't thank us to buy your ticket and just get swapped into minaret 02:38:54.500 --> 02:38:58.580 Um blad any anything else you want to you want to say as we close out? 02:39:00.500 --> 02:39:07.920 No, not really I've been planning so while you're talking I did some planning on a calendar as in which article 02:39:07.920 --> 02:39:13.640 I want to work on for which day and I estimate that by friday the first of 02:39:13.640 --> 02:39:18.060 November I will be done working on this and maybe I'll have 02:39:18.060 --> 02:39:23.100 A demo or something to show to people to get them excited about the project 02:39:23.100 --> 02:39:28.560 And I'll also send you a file that you can print so that it can be ready on time for you 02:39:29.700 --> 02:39:30.220 Minerotopia 02:39:30.220 --> 02:39:36.860 Yeah, I was also looking at the peter todd meme coin because I bought like 10 dollars of it during this 02:39:38.800 --> 02:39:42.800 Conversation and I'm getting wrecked right now because people estimated that 02:39:42.800 --> 02:39:49.340 Or predicted that peter todd was gonna be named satoshi during the documentary and people started trading 02:39:50.120 --> 02:39:55.340 And then it's just funny. I put 10 dollars on it and I seem to have one see the one name 02:39:55.340 --> 02:39:59.300 You know peter todd was that minarotopia last year? I don't know if you're aware of that 02:40:01.400 --> 02:40:06.840 Wasn't that two years ago if I'm not mistaken because after he came to minarotopia she 02:40:07.720 --> 02:40:09.580 proposed the tail emission proposal 02:40:10.100 --> 02:40:10.760 on bitcoin 02:40:11.600 --> 02:40:15.060 Yeah, it was uh, it was last year that he was there, but it was in the spring 02:40:15.060 --> 02:40:18.020 So it was like a year and a half ago that he was at minarotopia. Yeah 02:40:19.620 --> 02:40:24.300 Uh, but was he the one named as satoshi in that documentary? Are you serious? 02:40:24.540 --> 02:40:29.380 That's that's the reveal that it was peter todd. Is that what they're saying? That's that's kind of that's kind of 02:40:29.380 --> 02:40:32.880 Yeah, there's a clip that got leaked according to which 02:40:33.420 --> 02:40:39.720 He was asked point blank if he made up that whole story with the fed who told him to do rbf 02:40:40.600 --> 02:40:41.560 and this 02:40:42.120 --> 02:40:47.460 Plain that he satoshi is based on a reply that he posted back in 2010 02:40:48.060 --> 02:40:51.600 And he replied to satoshi something about rbf 02:40:52.220 --> 02:40:56.660 And he didn't get involved until a couple of years later with his real name account 02:40:56.660 --> 02:41:02.020 So it's almost as if he disappeared for a couple of years that you didn't talk from the forums and then came back 02:41:02.760 --> 02:41:03.320 and 02:41:03.960 --> 02:41:10.680 I guess speaking to how finny and adam back about solving the double spending problem when you're 14 02:41:10.680 --> 02:41:12.980 can add up to this credibility, but 02:41:13.640 --> 02:41:17.340 I don't know. I've met peter. He doesn't strike me as that kind of guy 02:41:18.440 --> 02:41:26.040 He was he definitely likes minaro, man. He's actually the first person I heard talking about minaro in like 02:41:27.660 --> 02:41:33.920 2014 I heard him on a podcast minaro was like less than a dollar at the time and he was talking about how it 02:41:33.920 --> 02:41:36.840 You know, basically solved bitcoins fundability problems 02:41:37.510 --> 02:41:40.240 And he got me very excited about minaro very early 02:41:40.240 --> 02:41:47.100 So much respect to peter todd and who knows man. Maybe he could be satoshi. He was definitely there from the super super early days 02:41:47.720 --> 02:41:50.900 Uh, you know, he was among amongst satoshi at the time 02:41:51.540 --> 02:41:57.580 Um, and he's you know, obviously, you know, he he kind of he's the ultimate skeptic 02:41:57.580 --> 02:42:04.480 Which I also actually really liked that about him. He's always skeptical like super pessimistic and skeptical about everything 02:42:05.200 --> 02:42:08.300 um, so yeah, you know, he kind of 02:42:09.120 --> 02:42:14.920 Throws throw shade on minaro, but he also there's a lot of things he says that are very minaro related 02:42:14.920 --> 02:42:18.100 Like you said the talent he's looking, you know, he's proposed to 02:42:18.640 --> 02:42:25.120 Uh add a tail admission to bitcoin. Obviously minaro has a tail admission. He's obviously very concerned about 02:42:25.120 --> 02:42:27.920 you know, the privacy of bitcoin and minaro has 02:42:28.940 --> 02:42:32.460 Allegedly solved uh, bitcoins privacy problems 02:42:32.460 --> 02:42:33.440 um 02:42:33.900 --> 02:42:39.180 But yeah, he's he's I don't know. I think he's I think he's a cool dude. A lot of people give him a lot of 02:42:39.700 --> 02:42:40.960 A lot of I don't know 02:42:40.960 --> 02:42:43.680 They think he's like a fed or something. I don't know what they think 02:42:43.680 --> 02:42:47.080 I hear a lot of conspiracies with with peter todd 02:42:47.080 --> 02:42:50.540 I doubt I don't think he's satoshi if I had a guess 02:42:50.540 --> 02:42:54.940 But he was definitely there from the fucking early days. So who knows who knows I don't know ruben 02:42:54.940 --> 02:42:59.020 What's your take man? You're 2009. You're probably am I am I the only one? 02:42:59.540 --> 02:43:02.920 Am I the only one here who is curious? 02:43:03.440 --> 02:43:10.180 Why the alleged satoshi doesn't just use their keys to make a transaction of literally any kind? 02:43:11.360 --> 02:43:16.120 Yeah, I mean that's always right the easiest way to prove who satoshi is but I guess I guess 02:43:16.120 --> 02:43:20.260 Peter doesn't want like like he doesn't okay 02:43:21.880 --> 02:43:28.480 Who knows man, but would you discount peter todd as potentially being satoshi? I wouldn't I would just got anybody 02:43:28.480 --> 02:43:33.400 Who says that they are for a start and if somebody else claimed that they were 02:43:36.840 --> 02:43:40.800 Yes, yes the answer is yes, I would I would dispute anybody 02:43:40.800 --> 02:43:45.080 Look the only way that I will say this person might be satoshi 02:43:45.080 --> 02:43:50.240 Is if they use the private keys and even then even then I'm inclined to think that somebody found a hack 02:43:50.800 --> 02:43:52.160 That seems more likely 02:43:53.400 --> 02:43:56.380 Silence silence for a decade and then suddenly 02:43:57.020 --> 02:43:57.720 Come on man 02:43:59.580 --> 02:44:03.740 I don't know man if you're satoshi and you're you're smart enough to pull 02:44:03.740 --> 02:44:08.640 I don't know. I think people I think I think the the real satoshi would have the ability to 02:44:09.480 --> 02:44:12.560 To to not spend not spend the doc 02:44:12.560 --> 02:44:21.740 Why would you ruin? Why would you ruin like the best the best legacy play like like like 02:44:22.460 --> 02:44:24.780 Ah show me a founder of a thing 02:44:25.440 --> 02:44:31.180 That will have quite the legacy as the anonymous founder of new money 02:44:33.660 --> 02:44:35.420 Yeah, no, it's somebody it's one of the greatest 02:44:35.420 --> 02:44:36.960 It's the it's the ultimate play 02:44:39.280 --> 02:44:40.160 Yeah, yeah 02:44:41.920 --> 02:44:48.480 Um, but shit. I don't know. I don't know. I just I do know I do know that peter was the first one to talk about 02:44:48.480 --> 02:44:52.720 Manera one of the first people to kind of talk about manara publicly and that's how I heard about it 02:44:53.420 --> 02:44:55.580 Uh, I mean if we find satoshi, I'll be disappointed 02:44:56.340 --> 02:44:56.780 Yeah 02:44:57.460 --> 02:45:01.820 Yeah, I would read this so I mean because you know, it's he's a mythical character at this point, obviously 02:45:03.300 --> 02:45:07.600 Um, all right guys, I think this is this is a good place to close it out 02:45:08.240 --> 02:45:12.100 Uh, thank you everybody for joining us. Super excited about manaritopia 02:45:12.100 --> 02:45:17.080 Thanks for helping me promote it today. Please. Please spread the word manaritopia dot com 02:45:17.080 --> 02:45:24.740 We got a we got a decent decent crowd coming down amazing amazing amount of projects and speakers participating and sponsors 02:45:25.540 --> 02:45:29.300 And now I just want to kind of give it a final push. Let's make it 02:45:29.860 --> 02:45:32.900 Bigger and better than ever. It's four days instead of three 02:45:33.420 --> 02:45:37.800 Like I said, we have the marketplace built into the conference. So bring your manara 02:45:38.400 --> 02:45:42.600 For spending for living off of you could you know, live off of it down there for the four days 02:45:42.600 --> 02:45:45.660 We're there you can buy your christmas gifts to bring back home 02:45:47.080 --> 02:45:54.120 The theme is if we use it, we win guys. Uh, that's what manaritopia is all about. That's what we're promoting 02:45:54.120 --> 02:46:01.820 Um, rafael man rafael will be down there and he could he could pitch his uh, let's let's make the 02:46:01.820 --> 02:46:08.360 The dopamine manero app. Uh, we're all for it, you know, uh, but yeah, I'm focusing on 02:46:09.140 --> 02:46:10.020 opting out 02:46:10.680 --> 02:46:16.240 Uh, using manero as a digital cash tool. That's what I'm most passionate about that. That's that's what I'll try 02:46:16.240 --> 02:46:20.900 I'm trying to memify. Yeah, maybe it's not that sexy, but I really don't give a fuck 02:46:21.640 --> 02:46:24.080 I'm here to disrupt and break up over here 02:46:25.480 --> 02:46:26.160 What's that? 02:46:26.620 --> 02:46:28.380 So I'm sort of bricked up over here 02:46:29.240 --> 02:46:32.080 It certainly gives me a dopamine rush, man 02:46:32.080 --> 02:46:36.400 Anytime I use manero and I know nobody can fucking see what I'm doing with my money 02:46:36.400 --> 02:46:39.180 Anytime I see a new listing on xmr bizarre 02:46:39.820 --> 02:46:45.980 It seriously gives me, you know, the greatest feeling in the world. Uh much much better feeling than any 02:46:46.240 --> 02:46:50.360 than any, uh time I've scrolled on instagram or 02:46:51.240 --> 02:46:55.480 Played or played around with any other tech and I'm being serious about that 02:46:56.000 --> 02:47:00.040 Dopamine coming from knowing how freaking disruptive it is 02:47:00.420 --> 02:47:06.720 And can I just say something that you can economic observation for manero given us where it's at in this current year 02:47:07.680 --> 02:47:12.260 Um by delisting by delisting manero from the largest exchange 02:47:12.840 --> 02:47:14.200 Not only have they 02:47:14.740 --> 02:47:20.300 Reduced its relative harm on a market right or reduce the relative on ramps and off ramps 02:47:20.840 --> 02:47:23.320 For exposure to predict the people who are 02:47:23.880 --> 02:47:26.860 From these crazy crypto scam they've insulated it 02:47:27.600 --> 02:47:34.020 They've insulated manero so that it is more of a cryptocurrency. They've protected it. Yes 02:47:34.720 --> 02:47:38.960 And so the market value on manero is is actually in my personal opinion 02:47:39.700 --> 02:47:40.300 um 02:47:40.300 --> 02:47:44.540 More of a real market than it is this diluted 02:47:46.220 --> 02:47:52.260 Mishmash of every other person who's diversifying into an asset class because they can't diversify into this asset class 02:47:52.260 --> 02:47:55.480 Without actually taking skin of the game and doing so 02:47:56.080 --> 02:47:58.340 Because the on ramp off ramp friction 02:47:59.000 --> 02:48:05.200 Um, which is to say if I were trading everything else I would be looking to manero for signal 02:48:08.060 --> 02:48:13.860 Does that make any sense it makes sense to me, man, and anybody who's smart enough to hear what rubin saying he's been 02:48:13.860 --> 02:48:17.860 There's been coins in 2009. So maybe maybe he's uh, 02:48:18.080 --> 02:48:21.300 Maybe he knows the thing or two, but yeah, no, it don't totally make sense 02:48:21.300 --> 02:48:24.220 I mean, they're forcing people to use 02:48:24.900 --> 02:48:30.060 Manero in the most idealistic way possible and to get into it in the most idealistic way where 02:48:30.060 --> 02:48:34.600 They're anonymously purchasing it with other cryptos or with cash 02:48:35.200 --> 02:48:41.720 Uh, it's like thank you. Thank you for steering everybody in the right direction. And thank you for forcing us 02:48:42.300 --> 02:48:47.400 To do what we eventually want to achieve which is to opt out and live peer to peer 02:48:47.400 --> 02:48:52.160 And they're just forcing us to do it sooner. They're forcing us to to build the tools we need 02:48:52.880 --> 02:48:55.460 Shout out to ginslet. Yeah. Thank you, sir 02:48:56.760 --> 02:49:02.420 Um, all right guys, I'm gonna kill it right here. We'll we'll be doing a manero 02:49:02.420 --> 02:49:06.520 Topia this week saturday at 11 a.m. Anybody wants to join us then 02:49:07.220 --> 02:49:13.240 Please please get the word out on manerotopia.com. Buy your tickets today use vlad 24, right? 02:49:13.340 --> 02:49:15.600 I think that's that's the promo code vlad 24 02:49:16.150 --> 02:49:24.500 To buy your tickets. Oh and yeah email me at manerotopia at protomail.com if you want to participate in any way 02:49:25.110 --> 02:49:29.220 We collaborate with anybody as long as you you know, you're you're into it for the right reasons 02:49:29.220 --> 02:49:30.340 We'll get you involved 02:49:31.060 --> 02:49:37.300 Uh, no matter who you are manerotopia at proton mail.com. Thank you guys. Ciao 02:49:40.220 --> 02:49:44.220 Hi maneroland, thank you for joining us on this week's episode 02:49:44.220 --> 02:49:46.480 We release new episodes every week 02:49:46.480 --> 02:49:53.500 You can find and subscribe to our show on youtube odyssey itunes spotify or wherever you listen to podcast 02:49:54.260 --> 02:49:58.460 Go to manerotalk.live for a full list of places where you can watch and listen 02:49:59.020 --> 02:50:02.620 If you want to interact with us guests or other podcast listeners 02:50:02.620 --> 02:50:07.200 You can follow us on twitter mastodon or any of our social media platforms 02:50:08.700 --> 02:50:15.860 Manerotalk is also made possible from contributions by viewers and listeners like you and supporting us as easier than ever 02:50:15.860 --> 02:50:22.180 By typing in manerotalk.crypto in your manerot.com or cake wall at send address field to send us a tip 02:50:22.780 --> 02:50:27.260 Once again, thanks so much for listening and we look forward to being back next week