WEBVTT 00:32.180 --> 00:36.000 You're paying there when you go and fill up your tank is the israel premium 00:36.580 --> 00:40.060 You're paying the israel premium there. You're paying for this war 00:40.060 --> 00:41.520 Uh directly 01:04.780 --> 01:08.680 Welcome to the last american vagabond. I have robert in lekes joining me to discuss 01:09.300 --> 01:14.280 Pretty much just what's going on with the iran war the legalities from the united states perspective and the world 01:14.280 --> 01:18.240 And one particular document released on the second by the white house 01:18.240 --> 01:20.900 that goes through the history of 01:21.340 --> 01:27.300 Particularly in particular iranian they claim attacks on americans or really just the terrorist attacks of iran on 01:27.780 --> 01:30.980 Americans around the world and i thought it was important to go through this 01:31.680 --> 01:35.420 Like you know detailed oriented and discuss whether this was true 01:35.420 --> 01:41.940 Whether there's nuance to the conversation and of course whether this is being used dishonestly to try to drive support for 01:41.940 --> 01:45.740 In illegal war. So robert, how are you today? It's always a pleasure to have you in the show 01:45.740 --> 01:48.400 It's been a while since we've had you know talked and you've been writing a lot 01:48.400 --> 01:51.340 You know articles for t-lab, but we we haven't done the usual interviews 01:51.340 --> 01:55.280 We have in the past so it's good to have you on because we got to get back to it because as you know 01:55.280 --> 01:57.760 I mean for those listening as well if you haven't watched watch this work 01:57.760 --> 02:02.940 robert has some insight in these conversations that i feel most people just either are afraid to point out or 02:02.940 --> 02:05.280 Just don't have in general. So how are you today brother? 02:07.340 --> 02:11.160 I'm doing great. Thanks for having me back and uh, yeah, it's good to be in conversation 02:11.680 --> 02:13.720 Rather than just the articles 02:14.360 --> 02:16.360 Yeah, yeah, looks like we got a little bit of a 02:16.940 --> 02:22.460 Feed issue there. So just compare that in mind for the time difference simply a little delay on a on the on the video there 02:22.460 --> 02:28.100 Um, so basically the point today in general was you know to get into the the the specifics the specifics of 02:28.100 --> 02:33.600 Whether or not the claims they're making are actually true. But in general, let's just start out with you know 02:34.400 --> 02:39.420 You know, I what points jump out at you right in regard to the iran war in this part of it 02:39.420 --> 02:40.500 I guess you know 02:40.500 --> 02:44.380 Where is there anything that jumps out at you that you think is important to discuss before we get into that? 02:44.380 --> 02:47.280 That that people may want to hear that you've been following, you know 02:47.280 --> 02:53.760 Because there's so many angles to this the illegality of the war the the you know, whether or not the appropriate measures were used 02:53.760 --> 02:57.560 I mean declaration of war war powers act whether or not there was an eminent threat 02:57.560 --> 03:00.740 Whether or not this is justified based on previous actions, you know 03:00.740 --> 03:03.440 So is there anything else that jumps into your mind that you want to start with before we get into that? 03:04.220 --> 03:08.240 Well, I think the international order as we've known it for some time 03:08.680 --> 03:13.180 Or at least the image that was presented to us has completely collapsed 03:14.080 --> 03:14.880 in on itself 03:15.500 --> 03:23.740 Not only because of the genocide in Gaza for two years and the inability of the so-called international community the united nations and 03:23.740 --> 03:25.420 all of the legal 03:26.200 --> 03:26.800 bodies 03:27.580 --> 03:33.140 That are supposed to safeguard the world from genocide and these sorts of horrific war crimes that we saw 03:33.960 --> 03:35.140 were of course 03:35.920 --> 03:41.060 Not capable of stopping what we saw in Gaza, but then as well with the trump administration 03:41.780 --> 03:43.060 advancing its 03:43.390 --> 03:45.500 so-called border peace through 03:46.570 --> 03:49.960 its UN Security Council resolution in 03:49.960 --> 03:52.040 November, I believe of last year 03:52.650 --> 03:53.520 that passed 03:54.050 --> 03:55.540 through the Security Council 03:55.970 --> 03:56.720 and this 03:56.720 --> 03:59.900 so-called board of peace was an attempt to 03:59.900 --> 04:02.160 replace the United Nations altogether 04:02.160 --> 04:08.060 As well as a nation building extra for size in the Gaza Strip 04:08.510 --> 04:08.960 so 04:09.740 --> 04:18.800 That being said and then combining that with the fact that the us-israeli attack on Iran was clearly a violation of the UN Charter 04:18.800 --> 04:21.160 And yet the UN 04:21.720 --> 04:22.760 secretary general 04:23.360 --> 04:26.500 Was not even capable of calling it out for what it was 04:27.040 --> 04:32.300 And I think there's a lot of parallels in terms of the illegality of this attack 04:32.960 --> 04:36.400 when it comes to the illegal invasion of Iraq, but 04:36.400 --> 04:44.920 What we've seen is that the United States didn't even bother trying to go to the UN Security Council for a resolution this time like they did 04:45.700 --> 04:48.840 For the Iraq war they tried to get 04:49.540 --> 04:53.160 Authorization and they did get a resolution passed against Iraq 04:53.800 --> 05:01.440 They didn't try this this time. They didn't even care. They've just swept aside the United Nations and international law. So I think the whole 05:02.500 --> 05:04.340 argument and the framing 05:05.140 --> 05:10.540 International law I think has become irrelevant in many ways. We just look at the battlefield and we've 05:10.540 --> 05:13.320 Now entered the era of the lore of the jungle 05:14.070 --> 05:21.540 So I think that's important to note as we're looking at everything that's going on and the us has made a terrible mistake for itself 05:21.540 --> 05:24.400 This is a war for Israel very very clearly 05:25.160 --> 05:29.620 And there's nothing that the United States gains at all. I mean it 05:30.520 --> 05:31.060 degrades 05:31.960 --> 05:33.540 It's power projection 05:34.020 --> 05:36.220 The power projection of the u.s. Military 05:36.740 --> 05:39.120 It degrades it in terms of its soft power 05:39.120 --> 05:45.800 It degrades it in terms of it not only its gulf relations, but its international relations as a whole 05:46.420 --> 05:51.500 Um, and and ultimately the United States military is sort of getting embarrassed right now 05:51.500 --> 06:00.080 By a country that everybody was saying was a regime that's on its last legs and is about to collapse and its people hate it and 06:00.640 --> 06:01.760 You know, it's so 06:02.560 --> 06:03.800 Incapable of doing anything 06:04.320 --> 06:11.860 Against the great power of the united states and yet it's taking on the us and the israelis and throwing punches in every single direction 06:12.640 --> 06:16.160 And willing to take on anyone else who wants to join in on that coalition 06:16.660 --> 06:21.100 And it's holding its own and as I've as you've often pointed out over the years 06:21.100 --> 06:24.120 That if it were to come to this point that this is what we would be now 06:24.120 --> 06:28.320 Not necessarily over the years that you knew that they would be able to succeed in fighting it off 06:28.320 --> 06:33.240 But that this would be the outcome that it wouldn't be some over and done thing and a lot of other people who are not 06:33.640 --> 06:38.360 Partisan or you know blinded by the expertise of the state department's perspective of iran 06:38.360 --> 06:41.420 Right that they just understand the reality that this is clear 06:41.420 --> 06:45.240 I think you know and I mean I really appreciate your work over the years for that very reason because it 06:45.240 --> 06:49.420 Opens your eyes to a different perspective because what else do we have to look to because it's also not 06:49.420 --> 06:52.640 I don't think why is to trust what the iranian government says about itself, right? 06:52.700 --> 06:56.560 It's about understanding the the middle ground and i'll point out by the way what you said there 06:56.560 --> 07:00.320 Which is a very important for people to hear from that you meant, you know 07:00.320 --> 07:04.060 I believe you're talking about the government and the military which is what you highlighted 07:04.640 --> 07:10.880 Hurting itself, but as most americans may take that as one thing like americans don't benefit from this, right? 07:10.900 --> 07:15.260 This is not america first, but as he's highlighting the u.s. Government doesn't benefit from this 07:15.260 --> 07:19.400 So you can argue a world you can see a world in which the government might take action that it benefits from 07:19.400 --> 07:24.840 At our expense. Oh, I what I really won't be able to hear in that is that they're taking action at its expense 07:24.840 --> 07:27.040 And our expense for a foreign power 07:27.040 --> 07:29.860 I don't I don't know how and I mean I don't even need to say that next part seeing 07:29.860 --> 07:33.640 Is how it seems the main conversation and even the mainstream level is starting to 07:33.640 --> 07:38.240 Grapple with whether is real controls us policy kind of crazy that we're here just on a side note 07:38.240 --> 07:41.020 You know that that's actually being discussed for how long this has been 07:41.480 --> 07:43.600 Broken down with backs, you know any thoughts on that? 07:44.020 --> 07:46.240 No, I completely agree with you 07:47.620 --> 07:50.640 To have these sort of conversations that we're having right now 07:50.640 --> 07:56.000 Uh, you know, we were, you know labeled as uh, you know 07:56.000 --> 08:01.000 conspiracy theorists and crazy people for discussing all of these ideas 08:01.000 --> 08:07.380 But now this is the mainstream discourse because everybody's been exposed to it. Uh, and that's one, um 08:07.380 --> 08:09.260 I wouldn't say amazing thing 08:09.260 --> 08:15.000 Um, trying to search for the word here, but I find amazing and baffled that it happened 08:15.800 --> 08:16.820 Even though the facts 08:17.340 --> 08:24.600 I would say that the fact that this all came from Gaza and the suffering of Gaza this tiny little strip of land 08:25.180 --> 08:29.320 Right with a population just over two million that 08:29.800 --> 08:31.640 It was Gaza that collapsed 08:32.140 --> 08:36.320 This entire deck of cards and exposed the whole system 08:36.800 --> 08:38.860 I think that is 08:39.360 --> 08:40.200 something that 08:40.680 --> 08:44.840 Should be noted in the history books and and and everyone should 08:45.460 --> 08:49.700 Recognize that that the struggle of the people of Gaza their steadfastness 08:49.700 --> 08:52.140 Enduring the genocide that they have 08:52.840 --> 08:56.420 Uh has opened everyone's eyes if it wasn't for Gaza 08:57.140 --> 09:03.660 We wouldn't be here in terms of the way that people are now viewing the world and everyone is now looking at 09:04.160 --> 09:07.840 Uh, the israeli is looking at the u.s. Government for what they are 09:07.840 --> 09:17.020 And and they're calling them out and and this is happening on a scale that we quite frankly could not have predicted and people are saying things 09:17.020 --> 09:21.200 quite frankly that surprised me that shocked me people who are 09:21.760 --> 09:24.180 Let's say accepted in the mainstream 09:25.400 --> 09:32.160 Discourse in in the corporate media now even some people are coming out and saying things even the conversations that 09:32.160 --> 09:34.780 We're having now have dramatically shifted 09:35.190 --> 09:40.360 And that is because of Gaza and the sacrifice of Gaza and the steadfastness of its people 09:40.970 --> 09:45.920 Uh, so I would say that it all originates from that tiny little strip of land 09:46.510 --> 09:49.360 and that population there of just over two million 09:50.370 --> 09:52.040 have changed the the 09:52.640 --> 09:54.480 entire planet's perception 09:55.430 --> 09:59.600 on global politics on the way their governments function 10:00.200 --> 10:04.060 And open people's eyes and I do think it's uh 10:04.720 --> 10:08.320 It's it's a major shift. It's a an insane shift 10:08.960 --> 10:11.460 And and now the fact that there's a lot more people open to 10:12.000 --> 10:14.580 Listening to the conversations like we're having now 10:15.200 --> 10:21.020 Yeah, exactly. Then you know the Palestinian people right the the the suffering and the strife and the you know the decades 10:21.020 --> 10:24.340 You know, I mean if you can go beyond even just the israel 10:24.340 --> 10:29.060 But you know the long-term suffering and the strife of fighting this and having the arguments always be 10:29.060 --> 10:32.120 You know like like even even recently there aren't just you know 10:32.120 --> 10:38.160 Somehow to capitulate as opposed to stand up for what's yours, you know to just get out of the way instead of stand in your land 10:38.160 --> 10:42.480 Well, they're you know while they're bombing you it's like why don't you just flee to egypt because this is our land 10:42.480 --> 10:46.500 You know like and the fact that that's been going on for so much longer than post october 7th 10:46.500 --> 10:50.280 You're right and I hope that that really does end up being not just a a footnote 10:50.280 --> 10:55.060 But the story that the palestinians and what they put themselves through are why we're here 10:55.060 --> 11:00.800 You know and and there's other parts to be pointed to but that is it's a powerful point and and to show the determination 11:00.800 --> 11:02.460 you know the steadfast like the 11:03.420 --> 11:06.660 Choice to fight that in the midst of an insurmountable force 11:06.660 --> 11:09.800 You know, I think that's kind of a good point of where the world is at right now 11:09.800 --> 11:15.280 You know and it's even though it can feel that way and even maybe it's still important to stand up and fight back 11:15.280 --> 11:18.820 And before we move on to the the document. I wanted to point one more thing out 11:18.820 --> 11:22.680 You mentioned about the un I made this point just the other day that I might have been yesterday 11:23.180 --> 11:29.360 It's so obvious this and this actually good point before we frame the kind of long term lie about what iran is and that's not to say 11:29.360 --> 11:30.280 Good guy bad guy 11:30.280 --> 11:37.260 It's just a highlight that they've been misrepresented for what they've been doing and that ultimately iran has consistently gone to the un 11:37.260 --> 11:44.440 In multiple examples including I believe it was february of of of this year saying if they bomb 11:45.080 --> 11:49.080 We will bomb these locations. It's on it. It's a un document. It's it's on the record 11:49.080 --> 11:54.080 I'm sure you've seen it and so the point is one that means that they clearly knew that they would bomb these locations 11:54.080 --> 11:58.160 They're now trying to claim or the rational response even though it's a legal response to their attack 11:58.160 --> 12:02.460 But also that it shows you they weren't planning attack because clearly they're going look if you attack us 12:02.460 --> 12:06.000 We're going to respond which clearly is not what you would do if you're planning a surprise attack 12:06.000 --> 12:09.660 You know, but the point is they went to the un is that what a terrorist organization does 12:09.660 --> 12:13.820 Went to as you pointed out to the us or israel go to the un before they know 12:13.820 --> 12:19.660 You just it's only so what you can truly ignore, you know, it's just it's it's incredible and that larger point 12:19.660 --> 12:21.520 I'm so glad people are starting to see this 12:22.100 --> 12:26.700 So I have a post that I saw actually I originally saw sacri fosters share this 12:26.700 --> 12:31.920 Here's what he was sharing and he did a little side-by-side breakdown of the comparison and you'll see why that's relevant 12:31.920 --> 12:39.760 The second it's like basically an identical document to what was originally posted in june 19th 2025 by the 12:40.860 --> 12:41.300 foundation 12:41.980 --> 12:48.560 For demands excuse me for defense of democracies which as they highlight both is essentially a cutout of israeli intelligence 12:48.560 --> 12:49.580 You can decide for yourself 12:49.580 --> 12:50.800 I happen to agree with the 12:50.800 --> 12:54.560 Overwhelming influence on most of these think tanks this one in particular 12:54.560 --> 13:00.160 And so what steven here says the most definitive white house statement purporting to justify the us 13:00.160 --> 13:07.420 Israel us war on ron which was from march 2nd 2026 statement entitled the iran's regime decades of terrorism against american citizens 13:07.420 --> 13:09.120 Here's the document from the white house 13:10.000 --> 13:16.340 He says a after a brief editorial opening the article list 44 incidents with a total of 992 us deaths 13:16.340 --> 13:20.240 Which we should address that in general before we get into this about the comparison to like 13:20.240 --> 13:22.500 Like beastings in a year 13:22.500 --> 13:26.340 You know me like the amount we're talking about also the fact that everyone these people now 13:26.820 --> 13:30.540 Casually said thousands of americans seeing and what that's you know 13:30.540 --> 13:34.240 We'll just talk about that before we get going the source of the data wasn't given where did it come from? 13:34.320 --> 13:36.480 He points out that it's this document now 13:36.480 --> 13:39.200 Let's what and it's actually prepared by a former apac member 13:39.200 --> 13:42.000 Which all that may mean nothing to you the point for me 13:42.000 --> 13:47.960 And I think it does matter is whether these things are accurate right so before we get into the document and going down the list 13:47.960 --> 13:49.520 They have it's an interesting point 13:50.000 --> 13:54.440 Right the the the information about what we've been hearing and how often we hear from all of them thousands 13:54.440 --> 13:58.140 Trump even casually said maybe even millions in a press conference just the other day 13:58.140 --> 14:02.460 Thousands of americans so before we get into that can get can you break down for 14:02.460 --> 14:09.320 People listening what that number comes from like the general sentiment of where those thousands were supposedly killed in the bulk they reference in the 14:09.700 --> 14:11.020 You know iraq conversation 14:12.820 --> 14:17.260 Well first of all to address the foundation for defensive democracies 14:17.820 --> 14:22.200 They along with the washington institute for neary's policy 14:22.840 --> 14:30.020 Which are both ultra zionist think tanks and if you look on the quincy institute for responsible statecraft they have 14:30.530 --> 14:33.900 um a project that tracks the transparency 14:34.630 --> 14:38.600 Of the think tanks in washington dc and both of them rank 14:38.930 --> 14:42.200 The lowest of the low because they take dark money 14:42.510 --> 14:49.420 And it's recognized that they are essentially cutouts connected to the apac lobby 14:50.090 --> 14:52.640 And they were the cheerleaders for the iraq war 14:53.030 --> 14:55.000 So again yet again 14:55.490 --> 14:58.920 Going into another regime change war another forever war 14:59.650 --> 15:01.340 You know continuing the 15:02.090 --> 15:03.020 war on terror 15:03.640 --> 15:04.960 As it was called 15:05.660 --> 15:10.160 We're seeing that the white house again is citing these exact same think tanks 15:10.810 --> 15:15.060 As its justification and their data and so to go through them 15:15.060 --> 15:18.740 I mean we could pull them up and and go through each and every single one of them 15:18.740 --> 15:28.020 But in essence what they're arguing is all of iran's allies and and groups that are roughly connected to them and every single death since 15:28.960 --> 15:29.840 1979 15:30.960 --> 15:34.260 Is somehow the responsibility of the iranian government? 15:34.980 --> 15:36.800 Of you know us deaths 15:37.480 --> 15:37.960 um 15:38.440 --> 15:39.640 And just not 15:40.080 --> 15:44.400 You know caring to add any context into anything at all 15:45.020 --> 15:52.620 And blaming them from for everything from you know roadside bombs in iraq to hamas 15:52.620 --> 16:00.400 Um attacks in occupied palestine to hezbollah and a variety of other 16:01.020 --> 16:01.580 attacks 16:02.380 --> 16:05.360 It's it's not really ridiculous and you'll hear by the way 16:05.360 --> 16:06.440 It's 16:07.260 --> 16:10.860 Importantly pointed out just like what 996 they're saying and 16:10.860 --> 16:12.640 point to them for the events of tomorrow 16:13.360 --> 16:17.340 So, you know, you'll hear that talking point that these you know 16:18.000 --> 16:23.540 Israel first pro-trump people are putting thousands of americans and what they've done there is 16:23.540 --> 16:28.960 They're lazy and they've just said well every single roadside bomb and every single u.s 16:28.960 --> 16:32.940 Soldier that was killed in iraq during the iraq war was iran's fault 16:32.940 --> 16:35.720 Which is ridiculous the face of it 16:36.360 --> 16:38.600 And that's that's kind of what I was getting at in that opening 16:38.600 --> 16:43.640 So we'll go through in a second is it not every single one because a lot of them kind of can be grouped together 16:43.640 --> 16:46.020 But the general kind of a long list of what they're claiming 16:46.020 --> 16:49.840 But what what the the bulk as far as I understand and correct me if i'm wrong 16:50.360 --> 16:52.040 As you just highlighted comes from 16:52.580 --> 16:58.780 Like the the illegal invasion of iraq and specifically the the being like thought off by the iran elements 16:58.780 --> 17:05.380 Which are some elements of just like we can get into like the pmu and and what that really is whether proxy 17:05.380 --> 17:11.580 Ally whatever but then specifically iran elements that were there with salamani and fighting off that illegal invasion 17:11.580 --> 17:14.180 And so for anyone to frame 17:14.180 --> 17:18.680 Which I mean is anybody out there listening actually of the mind that that wasn't an illegal invasion 17:18.680 --> 17:20.480 Do we pretend there were weapons of mass destruction? 17:20.640 --> 17:25.100 Like it's obvious we know that was illegal and yet at the same time people could acknowledge that somehow 17:25.100 --> 17:29.980 Still want to make the case that them fighting off that illegal invasion was now a terrorist act 17:29.980 --> 17:34.060 And I think that's what it largely stems to stems back to and then we can get into like the you know 17:34.060 --> 17:35.900 Three killed here from a hamas whatever 17:35.900 --> 17:40.300 But would you agree that that's the bulk of it and then the the roadside bombing point too 17:40.300 --> 17:41.740 Is that like the general sentiment? 17:42.200 --> 17:45.540 It's it like from what I've seen on that list 17:46.060 --> 17:54.120 It's just oh like groups that iran either has a relationship with or some of the cases don't have a relationship 17:54.120 --> 17:55.760 never had a relationship with 17:56.940 --> 18:03.080 Or possibly could have been involved in funding or or open allies with and as part of its 18:03.080 --> 18:05.360 access of resistances is called 18:05.980 --> 18:09.060 everything that was ever done by any of those groups was 18:10.480 --> 18:14.280 Automatically iran's fault and as if it was ordered by iran 18:14.800 --> 18:21.920 Uh, I mean, it's just ridiculous. We can get into the list and we can go through everything and and I can address every single point 18:22.460 --> 18:24.180 They're gonna bring up, you know 18:24.820 --> 18:26.620 so the point the the 18:26.620 --> 18:31.280 What I was just trying to get at is the interesting point that it's something that they continue to cycle through 18:31.280 --> 18:37.180 Even though it's more scattered than what they're really trying to suggest as you're highlighting and then back to the the um 18:38.180 --> 18:42.260 Post about 992 really just what he framed it as and we'll get into the actual list itself 18:42.260 --> 18:46.080 You know, it's important to think about that that it's it may seem a small thing to some people 18:46.080 --> 18:49.240 You know that you can casually just refer to thousands of americans 18:49.240 --> 18:54.960 But one thing it shows you is that they're being fast and loose with the number of people that they claim is sacred to defend 18:54.960 --> 18:56.880 You know that we have to honor their sacrifice 18:56.880 --> 19:02.360 But then you kind of just blithely just you know thousands even though that's not the reality based on the numbers they provide 19:02.360 --> 19:07.580 That's 992 so you don't even reach a thousand and then and that's not to diminish the fact that they were killed 19:07.580 --> 19:10.420 And we can get into the reality of what they thought they were fighting for 19:10.420 --> 19:16.420 But then you can compare it to just about anything like very benign things that take place in the country or over the 19:16.420 --> 19:19.300 Let's take the same time frame from 79 forward 19:19.880 --> 19:24.820 And the amount of things that you know like like I've jokingly said beastings wildly outnumber what they're pointing to 19:24.820 --> 19:29.960 So it just it's it's it's meant to make you feel like we're under attack and these people are targeting you 19:29.960 --> 19:35.200 But by any sure any metric it in fact shows the opposite. I just think that's really important to think about 19:35.200 --> 19:36.960 So let's go through their list 19:37.860 --> 19:41.560 For nearly a half century the islamic republic of iran the world's okay 19:41.560 --> 19:43.120 Let's just start with that because I just 19:43.120 --> 19:49.880 It's amazing to me that with even what they show you they can still make this argument the world's leading state sponsor of terrorism 19:49.880 --> 19:53.340 So do you find that to be an accurate framing and if not why? 19:54.000 --> 19:56.420 I mean it's it's ridiculous like 19:56.420 --> 19:56.940 They're 19:57.640 --> 20:02.600 the leading state sponsor of terrorism. I mean did they 20:03.240 --> 20:03.720 fund 20:04.420 --> 20:09.480 al-Qaeda and all of the splinter groups across the region and in 20:10.840 --> 20:17.660 Africa and across the world, you know, like a dash isis. Did they find that these are the most well known 20:17.660 --> 20:21.740 Right. Well, just in case people don't know the answers. No unequivocally. So that's what he was getting at 20:21.740 --> 20:26.200 They are not and we'll get into that part in a second as well the ideological overlap the 20:26.200 --> 20:27.400 You know the isis point 20:27.400 --> 20:32.260 I think is the most insulting even as we can see isis attack around when israel starts criticizing them 20:32.260 --> 20:36.100 But then somehow and they're the group we're told is the leading group the big terrorism 20:36.100 --> 20:41.000 But then they fight each other, but they're still the state leading sponsor. It just it's it's it doesn't make any sense 20:41.000 --> 20:45.460 You know, I recently saw rubio and others try to kind of or eggs out as well 20:45.460 --> 20:49.240 Try to kind of broaden this out to well, they're a state sponsor of terrorism 20:49.240 --> 20:54.820 Why well the leading because they take the money they make from their oil resources that by the way the u.s 20:54.820 --> 21:01.000 Has been sanctioning to then build tunnels and weapons and like what do you think about that claim that first of all that 21:01.000 --> 21:04.060 They are using the resources that are being suppressed by the u.s 21:04.060 --> 21:09.220 Government to build what other countries seem to use but the why that would make them the state sponsored terrorism 21:09.220 --> 21:12.100 Like just I don't know it just seems like it's on its face ridiculous 21:12.100 --> 21:16.860 But i'm trying to engage with it like it makes like it's a real argument. So we're not just dismissing it 21:16.860 --> 21:17.680 But you know, what do you think 21:18.630 --> 21:23.080 Well, who does iran back iran backs? Hasbollah 21:23.610 --> 21:31.400 In lebanon it backs the palace all of the palestinian resistance groups whether they're islamic groups marxist groups 21:31.830 --> 21:36.280 nationalist groups they back them all they all they provide them all with 21:36.960 --> 21:44.900 Funding logistical support, etc. And they also back on sarullah in yemen and they back 21:45.580 --> 21:49.120 the hashid ashabi or the pmu 21:49.720 --> 21:50.780 In iraq 21:51.200 --> 21:56.580 These are all legitimate allies that have their own grievances within their own borders or either 21:56.580 --> 22:02.440 In yemen's case in sanah. They have a government that this is the government of yemen 22:03.180 --> 22:04.640 two-thirds of the military 22:05.360 --> 22:12.880 Are were decided with them immediately when they took over in 2015. So that that's a government there 22:12.880 --> 22:19.960 It's not internationally recognized, but the so-called internationally recognized government in yemen is a bunch of saudi 22:20.400 --> 22:27.820 Stooges that literally put together a new government in exile out of the ritz carlton hotel in 22:27.820 --> 22:33.680 In in saudi arabia and have no legitimacy whatsoever. They're a bunch of gangsters 22:33.680 --> 22:40.700 They've allied themselves historically with forces fought on the side of al qaeda and daesh isis inside of 22:41.180 --> 22:44.780 Yemen, so let's let's look at that. Oh, well iran 22:45.520 --> 22:55.360 Has backed hezbollah. Well, hezbollah is an organic resistance movement which grew out of lebanon after the israeli invasion in 22:55.360 --> 22:58.120 1982 when israel killed around 22:58.120 --> 23:04.700 20,000 lebanese and palestinians and then when the palestinian resistance by the way were pushed out 23:04.700 --> 23:11.040 They agreed to leave lebanon israel then used its fascist militia allies which were proxies 23:11.040 --> 23:17.280 And they're these were hardened killers to massacre thousands and thousands of palestinian refugees 23:17.280 --> 23:21.020 In refugee camps when they didn't have anyone to protect them 23:21.480 --> 23:27.480 And they also killed the shia in south lebanon as well and israel then occupied south lebanon 23:27.480 --> 23:31.280 And by the way that when we're talking about the shia in south lebanon 23:31.280 --> 23:39.400 Prior to this during the era in the 70s and and before the israeli invasion the shia were not actually 23:40.100 --> 23:43.360 Always hostile to the israelis per se 23:43.360 --> 23:46.580 This is the poorest population inside of lebanon 23:46.580 --> 23:50.140 And it's also a population that they for a long time 23:50.140 --> 23:56.720 And this is goes into the history of lebanon now that population a lot of them historically didn't really like that 23:56.720 --> 24:01.280 The pilo was inside of lebanon they viewed it as a state within a state 24:01.780 --> 24:06.120 And and they had some grievances against them. And so they weren't actually 24:06.680 --> 24:08.400 They definitely weren't combative 24:09.060 --> 24:13.880 Towards the israelis at that point, but then the israelis occupied them the israelis murdered them 24:13.880 --> 24:17.000 The israelis brutalized them they destroyed their homes 24:17.000 --> 24:21.620 They took their their fathers and their sons as political prisoners and they tortured them 24:21.620 --> 24:29.620 And so then you had hezbollah which formed out of the occupation of south lebanon and out of the invasion 24:29.620 --> 24:34.020 and the mass murder of tens of thousands of people and yes, uh 24:34.620 --> 24:41.420 Iran did back them the irgc did back them and they have an affinity towards them because they're of the same religious group 24:41.420 --> 24:48.420 But hezbollah are an organic resistance movement inside of lebanon. They're the biggest political party inside of lebanon 24:48.420 --> 24:53.580 They have social movements and a political wing and also a military wing 24:53.580 --> 24:59.840 And they're the only people capable of defending the country quite frankly. The lebanese army is is a glorified security force 25:00.600 --> 25:04.500 This all being said that's who iran backs and that's why they back them 25:04.500 --> 25:08.440 Because even for iran strategically when it's backing all of these allies 25:08.440 --> 25:15.060 And that's just looking at hezbollah alone when it's backing these allies to fight against occupation and to expel 25:15.060 --> 25:18.520 And and it's arming them and and it's providing them with support 25:18.520 --> 25:23.980 It's doing that for a variety of reasons. You can say it's ideological. You can say it's a moral reason 25:23.980 --> 25:25.080 You can make those arguments 25:25.080 --> 25:30.100 But even if you're just looking at it from an iranian defense point of view 25:30.100 --> 25:36.600 Since nine uh since 1979 the iranian government has been under sanctions 25:36.600 --> 25:39.840 It has been constantly threatened by the united states 25:39.840 --> 25:44.560 And so it needs to develop these allies as a protective shield for itself in the region 25:44.560 --> 25:46.020 That's just the reality 25:46.020 --> 25:51.720 They have military bases surrounding them and they have threats coming from every single direction 25:51.720 --> 25:56.240 They've been placed under sanctions for their entire existence of this government 25:56.240 --> 26:01.420 And then not even two years into the new government after the people of iran 26:01.420 --> 26:03.760 Overfrewed their dictator at the shah 26:03.760 --> 26:07.360 It was a us installed puppet installed by the cia 26:07.360 --> 26:12.500 Not even two years into that government. They couldn't even settle down 26:12.500 --> 26:18.120 Then the united states backs saddam hassein to launch a war of aggression and invasion 26:18.120 --> 26:24.360 Which lasted for around eight years and killed around 500,000 iranians 26:24.360 --> 26:25.500 that this is 26:26.120 --> 26:30.540 The none nobody gets told this nobody knows this nobody knows about the 26:30.540 --> 26:37.720 Overfrew of the first democrat practically elected leader in 1953 by the mi6 and the cia 26:38.180 --> 26:41.400 Who by the way, it's important to note when we talk about a coup 26:42.300 --> 26:48.420 The way that they did it is they funded and fueled through the cia and mi6 26:48.780 --> 26:53.060 They fueled protests against hamed mozaduk 26:54.120 --> 26:59.720 They fueled these like we saw in uh earlier this year with these riots 26:59.720 --> 27:05.280 And these attacks again that they were doing the same thing now as they did back in 1953 27:06.160 --> 27:06.680 because 27:07.220 --> 27:11.860 The country had a democratically elected leader and he wanted to nationalize the oil 27:11.860 --> 27:13.980 He wanted to take that the oil for himself 27:14.620 --> 27:16.440 And he didn't want to align himself 27:16.440 --> 27:20.460 So they installed this shah the people overflowed the shah and then immediately 27:20.460 --> 27:26.020 Under sanctioned invasion of their country hundreds of thousands of people dead and at the very end 27:26.020 --> 27:32.100 Of the iran iraq war after we've seen this was the last year of the iran iraq war 27:32.920 --> 27:34.420 The united states 27:35.200 --> 27:35.800 navy 27:36.420 --> 27:43.060 Shoot down a civilian airliner and kill over 270 iranian civilians in 27:43.780 --> 27:48.920 In the gulf upon moz right and so they never apologized for that either, right? 27:49.300 --> 27:55.320 And ragan famously says i'll never apologize for the american for for america. I think he said the way he framed it 27:55.820 --> 27:59.620 Yeah, and this is this is the the problem is when you're like, whoa 27:59.620 --> 28:04.820 Iran backs this group and it backs hamas and it backs islamic shahad and it backs the pflp 28:04.820 --> 28:11.840 And the the other groups in palestine. Yeah, they're fighting within the borders of occupied palestine to liberate their country 28:11.840 --> 28:16.720 Hesbullah is fighting to liberate lebanese territory and to protect lebanon 28:16.720 --> 28:22.200 The pmu when it started backing the pmu and helped found them it did it 28:22.900 --> 28:25.720 In response to an isis invasion 28:26.180 --> 28:32.660 Which had taken over large swaths of iraq people don't know this because they have this weird fantasy 28:33.420 --> 28:40.720 depiction of what happened with the defeat of isis in iraq the united states did not defeat isis in iraq the iraqis defeated 28:41.280 --> 28:47.580 Uh the isis occupation. It was a brutal bloody battle and and no one should have any 28:47.580 --> 28:51.600 Uh illusions about it. There were many many bloody 28:52.200 --> 28:58.520 Events which took place and i'm not saying that there weren't bad things that happened during this time 28:58.520 --> 29:03.400 That would be incorrect to say there were horrible things that happened in iraq 29:03.400 --> 29:08.380 During this time, but those the pmu were formed and by the way, they had 29:08.920 --> 29:12.920 christian groups involved sunni groups involved obviously the majority were 29:13.640 --> 29:14.060 shia 29:14.960 --> 29:19.420 But not all of them were uh, you know technically on the iranian payroll and stuff 29:19.420 --> 29:21.020 They were fighting to defend their country 29:21.020 --> 29:27.440 So iran threw its weight behind them and they were the ground force whereas the us came in with the air force later 29:28.140 --> 29:30.540 Um, and obviously did some special forces operation 29:30.540 --> 29:32.440 It's had some ground operations 29:32.440 --> 29:39.020 But the majority of the ground fight against isis was done by the pmu and again just from a defensive point of view for the 29:39.020 --> 29:42.900 Iranians they're looking at this and going well if isis takes over iraq 29:42.900 --> 29:48.440 We're in big trouble and they don't want that so again it makes sense from a defensive 29:49.420 --> 29:51.240 point of view for the iranians to do this 29:51.730 --> 29:59.120 And again, it's it's a force which in iraq protects the country from being taken over by these hostile forces 29:59.890 --> 30:05.520 In yemen, we just went through what happened in yemen again another us backed 30:06.460 --> 30:09.840 dictator in the country and the people in yemen 30:10.620 --> 30:11.920 Underwent an uprising 30:12.790 --> 30:14.520 And they overthrew the government 30:15.060 --> 30:20.380 The regime there the ansarullah, they came in later popularly known in the western power 30:20.380 --> 30:23.960 Me here as the hoothies the hoothie rebels to delegitimize them 30:24.460 --> 30:28.240 But they came in and it they took over sanat 30:28.820 --> 30:30.080 and there was a revolution 30:30.920 --> 30:31.720 before this 30:32.520 --> 30:37.280 And there were massive protests on the streets and people including many 30:37.700 --> 30:42.220 The majority of the armed forces sited with ansarullah when they took over 30:42.720 --> 30:49.320 And again, it was about sovereignty. I'm not here to advocate and say hey everything about ansarullah is perfect 30:49.320 --> 30:54.160 And the people of yemen should choose them as their government. No, that's not for me to decide 30:54.160 --> 30:57.780 That's the people of yemen and all of these other countries. It's up to them 30:58.400 --> 31:05.800 It's their countries they should decide however to simply say well iran backs all these terrorist 31:06.500 --> 31:09.880 groups and regimes and the pmu are part of their 31:09.880 --> 31:13.080 A part of the iraqi security apparatus 31:13.750 --> 31:17.280 Like it's just all of this is just so incredibly ridiculous 31:17.800 --> 31:22.880 And and if you look at each case by case on a case by case basis and you look into it 31:22.880 --> 31:26.860 Every single time you can make sense of it. You don't need to agree with it 31:26.860 --> 31:31.480 But you can make sense of it, but do all the backs has the law on it like 31:32.000 --> 31:36.180 Like I mean, it's just stupid like it's it's it's ridiculous quite frankly 31:36.180 --> 31:40.980 It is and it comes down to the point that it's like you like from the origin point pmu 31:40.980 --> 31:44.140 For example, which again, I made this point like up until not that long ago 31:44.140 --> 31:49.480 The u.s. Government was funding iraq which was then funding the pmu or arming and then acting like that's an 31:49.480 --> 31:52.560 It just doesn't this your point. It's a logical when you look at the actual information 31:52.560 --> 31:54.160 That's not being surface level put out 31:54.160 --> 31:58.720 But the point is from the from and that's not the origin point but from ultimately the point from, you know 31:59.140 --> 32:01.020 Just when they start calling them terrorist forward 32:01.020 --> 32:05.900 You can highlight that the only real argument is that they are back by like aran proxy 32:05.900 --> 32:11.360 Which is why they're terrorists and then any kind of action they're used like when the pmu responds against the u.s 32:11.360 --> 32:14.120 Government for illegal actions in iraq they call it a terrorist act 32:14.120 --> 32:18.700 My point is that there's a lot of things they point to that you can there's no like it like you said with 32:18.700 --> 32:19.880 Hezbollah defending 32:20.700 --> 32:23.680 Domestically, they're not lashing out and trying to overtake countries 32:23.680 --> 32:26.620 They're responding to attacks to on southern lebanon, for example 32:26.620 --> 32:29.840 Which we're seeing with with israel or any number of these points we could make 32:29.840 --> 32:32.840 You know, I think it's so obvious to see the one-sided arguments there 32:32.840 --> 32:35.940 But as you rightly pointed out, this is not about good guy bad guy 32:35.940 --> 32:38.900 We're trying to show the facts the truth and if you 32:38.900 --> 32:43.760 Can understand that they're misrepresenting these groups and maybe you still think they're doing bad things 32:43.760 --> 32:47.280 In fact, I think any power structure could eventually or maybe doing exactly the same thing 32:47.280 --> 32:51.960 But that they are misrepresenting it and what does that mean if they are this evil terrorist organization 32:51.960 --> 32:54.480 Why would they have to lie about what they're doing, you know 32:54.480 --> 32:57.900 And so I want to get into the point about the proxy thing before we go further on the list 32:57.900 --> 33:00.680 And I know we actually do have limited time today. So I want to make sure we get into it 33:00.680 --> 33:03.940 But this is I just I always enjoyed talking with you about this stuff, Robert 33:03.940 --> 33:06.320 And and so real quickly last point on this 33:06.320 --> 33:10.300 It's I think this is kind of cut to the to the cuts of the quick and what we're getting at 33:11.120 --> 33:14.200 Proxies so what you highlighted there you your quick point there 33:14.200 --> 33:17.660 I forget what the group name was but you said israel was basically using their proxy 33:17.660 --> 33:23.440 In that in that discussion, but then we had then you highlighted the allies of hezbollah 33:23.440 --> 33:27.660 You know any number of the group we're talking about that are allied and even gain support and weapons 33:27.660 --> 33:31.900 And and funding from their allies just like the u.s. Government does to other countries in the world 33:31.900 --> 33:33.260 We don't call them proxies, right? 33:33.520 --> 33:35.000 So what's the difference in your mind? 33:35.140 --> 33:40.760 Why would hezbollah not be considered a proxy of iran and then any number of groups we can point to that we could 33:40.760 --> 33:45.620 You know the elements the israel and us are using would be called proxies. What's what's your mind the difference? 33:45.880 --> 33:47.420 Go ahead. Why does someone that 33:49.140 --> 33:49.940 immigrates from 33:50.440 --> 33:53.760 Let's say, Nigeria to the united states called an immigrant 33:54.480 --> 33:56.320 But someone that would 33:56.880 --> 34:00.060 immigrate from the united states to nigeria called an expat 34:00.760 --> 34:04.260 It's like again. This is just it's propagandistic framing 34:05.300 --> 34:10.680 And and it's it's honestly it's uh american exceptionalism to an extent 34:11.500 --> 34:12.560 and and this is 34:13.360 --> 34:18.140 When you want to frame the world in terms of goodies and baddies, which is trumps 34:19.240 --> 34:21.620 Uh trumps rhetoric 34:22.180 --> 34:24.580 In essence, this is 34:24.580 --> 34:29.560 The way that he presents the world in goodies and baddies, right in the most basic 34:30.740 --> 34:38.300 Way of presenting international politics and this is what you do, you know, the the bad guys they're regimes 34:38.300 --> 34:45.320 They're not countries. They're not governments. They're regimes iran can't be viewed as a government that you know 34:46.000 --> 34:46.600 For instance 34:47.760 --> 34:54.720 Lately there was an interview. I forget how long ago with uh professor. Muhammad morandi. He was on 34:55.320 --> 35:00.160 Uh pierce morgan and pierce morgan asked him. Can you condemn your regime? 35:00.800 --> 35:01.540 and it's like 35:01.540 --> 35:06.300 You want someone to just get on there and just condemn a random fact about their government 35:06.300 --> 35:11.640 It's like it's a country people have problems with the policies of their government 35:11.640 --> 35:18.480 The reality is here that as much as i'm opposed to the american government 35:18.480 --> 35:26.000 The canadian government the british government whatever right and i have so many criticisms of them if suddenly 35:26.320 --> 35:32.300 A foreign power was invading and bombing my damn neighborhood and killing children 35:32.880 --> 35:36.320 Right and then talking about all of these stupid excuses 35:36.700 --> 35:39.980 Right as to why it's doing that and pushing propaganda 35:40.700 --> 35:47.600 I'm gonna stand there and go no if they were backing terrorist groups to run through the streets and to burn down 35:47.600 --> 35:50.060 businesses and attack churches 35:50.760 --> 35:54.440 And and just run amok would i be in support of that? 35:54.840 --> 36:00.740 Absolutely not that's not something i would back and this is as somebody who is a you know a dissident 36:00.740 --> 36:08.100 I don't like the policies of these governments. I have so many criticisms like you do but again, would you back your country being 36:08.760 --> 36:18.040 You know plagued with these crazy religious fundamentalists that are given all this money by i don't know russian intelligence or chinese intelligence or whatever 36:18.040 --> 36:24.360 It would be like you wouldn't it's just obvious, but we have to present our enemies 36:24.360 --> 36:30.740 There are chosen enemies as being not human their governments are are uniquely 36:30.740 --> 36:39.460 Evil their systems are evil their religions are evil their culture is evil everything about them is different to us 36:39.460 --> 36:43.700 And they're not they're just not and a lot of people see through this nonsense. They do 36:43.700 --> 36:44.800 unfortunately 36:45.470 --> 36:47.380 Most people don't have the knowledge 36:47.380 --> 36:49.520 specifically about west asia 36:49.930 --> 36:54.300 To be able to elaborate so when they're asked to condemn hezbollah and hamas 36:54.300 --> 36:58.980 And uh on sarah law in yemen as terrorists. They just call them terrorists. Oh, yeah 36:58.980 --> 37:04.100 Yeah, the terrorists or they just called you condemn the iranian regime. Oh, yeah, I hate the iranian regime 37:04.100 --> 37:09.840 It's like can you tell me anything about it? Do you know anything about the way that the government functions? 37:10.220 --> 37:13.780 Do you know about the different political camps? Do you know about the history? 37:14.080 --> 37:18.280 Do you have any idea about you don't but people are pressured into 37:19.200 --> 37:19.680 accepting 37:20.240 --> 37:20.720 the 37:20.720 --> 37:23.340 The framing of the conversation 37:23.340 --> 37:28.140 And that's what they do is they they want to create a certain framing in a box 37:28.140 --> 37:33.720 And if you're outside of that, you're crazy. You're a conspiracy theorist. You're an anti-semite. You're whatever it is 37:33.720 --> 37:34.360 and 37:35.020 --> 37:41.020 This box is just propagandistic nonsense. It's and in and of itself it is inherently racist 37:41.720 --> 37:43.280 crap orientalist crap 37:43.280 --> 37:49.680 Which is there and i'm not using those words a lot of people throw these words racist and orientalist around a lot 37:49.680 --> 37:56.880 Right, like anti-semitism is thrown around a lot. I use them with purpose here because these 37:57.700 --> 38:01.360 This framing specifically is there and that box is there 38:01.360 --> 38:08.140 In order to trick you and dup you into hating people that you would never hate if you met them 38:08.140 --> 38:10.840 And you would never hate their culture if you went over there 38:10.840 --> 38:15.260 And you would probably think it's beautiful if you went and visited iran if you went to 38:15.780 --> 38:20.380 Palestine and and and you were to walk the streets and see the hospitality of the people 38:20.380 --> 38:24.380 And the beauty of the land and what they thought you wouldn't hate the palestinians 38:24.380 --> 38:27.600 You wouldn't hate the iranians. You wouldn't hate the iraqis or anyone else 38:27.600 --> 38:31.800 You wouldn't but you're supposed to view them as this unique evil 38:31.800 --> 38:38.180 And I suppose this is a bit of a rant here, but again, it's just forward manufacturing consent. That's all it is 38:38.780 --> 38:42.220 And you the pierce morgan example, you know and like you're saying and if you don't 38:43.100 --> 38:47.080 Give them that concession right where yes, yes, they're bad. Don't explain why they're not what you think 38:47.080 --> 38:51.640 Well, maybe we maybe not everyone agrees that they're as evil as you're saying and the point is you're not allowed inside that 38:51.640 --> 38:55.640 Inner conversation, you don't get that upper echelon, you know pierce morgan 38:55.640 --> 38:59.280 You know that that's the whole point and and maybe some of them do have that opinion 38:59.280 --> 39:00.880 You know, yes, hamas is terrorist organization 39:00.880 --> 39:05.240 But this is why this is not true about this but it's not accurate and you're right to frame it that way 39:05.240 --> 39:08.260 Because that's just not the truth about the nuance reality of the groups 39:08.260 --> 39:12.380 But you could like you said we we could both point out things that we argue are crimes 39:12.380 --> 39:16.200 Even rightly point out things that happen on october 7th, which should be criticized 39:16.200 --> 39:20.280 But it's not the same thing and I think it's important to see how that kind of you know 39:20.280 --> 39:25.100 Same thing with politicians, you know where you have to kind of give them that to be able to get inside the circle 39:25.100 --> 39:26.700 And so you compromise yourself, you know 39:26.700 --> 39:29.940 Now to the back to the proxy point and one more thing before we get into the list 39:29.940 --> 39:33.240 You know, I think it's really important to see that you highlighted from the iranian perspective 39:33.240 --> 39:36.640 You know like it's a really important point there and we're glad you outlined that 39:36.640 --> 39:40.060 That so from iran, you know, yes, they're protesting. There are real protests 39:40.060 --> 39:46.180 There have been plenty of times that they end up co-opting and it's very clear as the unions even pointed out once it turned into these 39:46.180 --> 39:48.300 Armed mass people that they told you they were arming 39:48.300 --> 39:53.680 But the point is that iranians do want that, you know, as you often point out and do have influence on government action 39:53.680 --> 39:55.240 That has changed because of it 39:55.240 --> 39:58.460 But then when you have actually people come in and start bombing hospitals and schools 39:58.460 --> 40:01.280 They even if it's in the interest of what they claim they want 40:01.280 --> 40:04.600 That's not what they the way they want it or how they want this to go 40:04.600 --> 40:08.260 And so they speak up and criticize it the analogy I make is if republicans are trying to 40:08.260 --> 40:12.640 Let's say they're the insurgent force trying to take over the democrat led government and all of a sudden 40:12.640 --> 40:18.360 Their republican leader starts bombing their republican locations to get that done. Why would they be like? Yeah 40:18.360 --> 40:23.900 You know, it doesn't make sense and that's what it's only in the world from the dehumanized outside perspective 40:23.900 --> 40:28.640 Where that even and that's not what's real on the ground and you can easily prove this, you know 40:28.640 --> 40:32.500 And to back to the proxy point what I was simply saying and I 40:32.940 --> 40:34.640 What you were saying I think is really important 40:34.640 --> 40:38.100 Is that it comes down to whether they're controlled or not? 40:38.320 --> 40:42.060 And I think that's what a proxy means if they're literally like an extension of the government 40:42.060 --> 40:46.700 So the u.s. Government literally manufactures a group of fake people or a fake 40:48.180 --> 40:52.080 Organization that are you know packed with cia for example, that's a proxy 40:52.080 --> 40:53.660 It's not really the organization 40:53.660 --> 40:56.820 Whereas you have organizations that are simply allies of other groups now 40:56.820 --> 40:59.940 It's for everybody out there to decide whether you think that line is crossed or not 40:59.940 --> 41:04.440 But the important thing is to realize that a lot of these groups are in my mind not proxies 41:04.440 --> 41:08.040 But simply allies versus something else and that's really important where we're going to get into next 41:08.800 --> 41:09.860 So on this 41:11.280 --> 41:13.440 One thing is first I think as you already mentioned 41:13.440 --> 41:19.620 Let's not forget and I you'll be surprised. I think at least I'd like to hope how well informed my audience is about operation 41:19.620 --> 41:24.300 Ajax and 53 forward and now what the 79 revolution really was and as you highlighted 41:24.300 --> 41:27.240 We're talking about an illegal revel an illegal coup d'etat 41:27.920 --> 41:31.380 Very well documented at this point mazadek was as you pointed out 41:31.380 --> 41:33.720 I mean, I often point this out when I talk about it 41:33.720 --> 41:36.940 I can't speak to what his mind was but the the discussion of him 41:37.340 --> 41:43.020 Argued that he was very pro-democracy had pictures of himself nefs the liberty bell was all about trying to emulate these different cultures 41:43.020 --> 41:48.000 But I understand he just didn't want to bow to the interests of the foreign powers at the expense of iranians 41:48.000 --> 41:53.320 So they got rid of him and put someone in place that was willing to bow to the elitist oligarch kind of upper 41:53.320 --> 41:54.400 echelon, you know 41:54.400 --> 41:57.180 And so I think whether people agree with that framing or not 41:57.180 --> 42:02.520 It's an illegal coup d'etat that I think went against to what the iranian people want and even grok will tell you that 42:03.180 --> 42:08.140 Dramatically bad for the vast majority of iranians other than that upper circle. So then we come to 1979 42:08.640 --> 42:11.880 So you have the revolution now as you often pointed out 42:11.880 --> 42:16.280 That's doesn't mean it all went in the direction of what even all the iranian people wanted or whether it was more 42:16.280 --> 42:20.900 Kind of an overreaction in a religious sense to what americans brought in right 42:20.900 --> 42:26.800 But ultimately regardless it was the will of the people to push this away and ultimately then went in the direction of more 42:27.180 --> 42:32.100 You know, like you've talked about the hijab point and how a lot of people saw it more of a response to what the west was doing 42:32.100 --> 42:32.800 all that aside 42:33.760 --> 42:36.420 79 forward in the midst of this aftermath 42:37.020 --> 42:41.300 Iranian students and this is from the white house post back to the regime back by the regime 42:41.300 --> 42:46.900 And you can speak to whether you think that's even the case seize the u.s. Embassy in tehran taking 66 american hostages in a 42:46.900 --> 42:48.800 444 day standoff 42:48.800 --> 42:52.360 This is one of the most frequently cited points to why 42:52.360 --> 42:57.320 Iran's a terrorist organization apparently or why they're killing americans or just frothing at the mouth to get it done 42:57.320 --> 43:00.060 So what's your understanding of that basic situation? 43:00.580 --> 43:04.720 Well, the people like this is a the revolution was fresh at this point 43:04.720 --> 43:11.040 And so it was students that did this and there's a fact by the regime and it's like the the government ended up 43:11.040 --> 43:13.580 taking control of the situation and of course 43:14.540 --> 43:16.620 endorsed their actions eventually but 43:16.620 --> 43:21.360 um, this was an organic reaction because the people 43:22.080 --> 43:28.300 Wanted the Shah to be returned back to Iran. They wanted him to be punished for all of his crimes 43:28.870 --> 43:32.060 And he was a bloody and brutal dictator 43:32.530 --> 43:39.130 And this is something that everyone misses. They they shared these stupid black and white photos of oh, look 43:39.130 --> 43:41.210 There were women in bikinis and everything 43:41.210 --> 43:45.530 Besides, do you do you really know what the majority of iranians were living like? 43:45.830 --> 43:51.270 Do you know what it was like that they had literally americans as like settlers in their own gated communities there 43:51.270 --> 43:53.650 Inside of the country next to slums 43:54.170 --> 43:56.090 The population were poor 43:56.690 --> 44:03.210 The population and all women and women's rights. Yeah. Did you know what happened when the islamic revolution came along? 44:03.210 --> 44:04.530 Yeah, women became 44:05.650 --> 44:13.190 Overwhelmingly educated. They finally could have access to an education and higher education and they excelled in every field 44:13.190 --> 44:16.530 you can imagine and by every single metric 44:17.170 --> 44:17.570 they 44:18.370 --> 44:22.790 life or the conditions of life, uh, the quality and the indicators 44:23.490 --> 44:29.690 Of life improved for them. Now you can argue about certain islamic rulings how they're 44:29.690 --> 44:33.130 Implemented many iranians have problems with this 44:33.210 --> 44:36.170 And they have had problems with this and back in 2022 44:36.770 --> 44:39.570 After the messa amini protests, which of course 44:40.330 --> 44:43.570 Foreign forces hijacked them and you had the women life freedom 44:44.010 --> 44:49.650 You know a banner put up which of course was promoted by Saudi Arabia women life freedom 44:49.650 --> 44:54.430 Women's rights and feminism brought to you by the kingdom of Saudi Arabia 44:54.430 --> 44:58.810 Which just gave the women the right to drive cars, but regardless 44:59.350 --> 45:03.550 Um when it comes to the system there there has been many changes since 2022 45:04.330 --> 45:08.370 And and that reflects the fact that the government does respond to people 45:08.370 --> 45:15.010 It does now that takes a lot of struggle and the iranian people have struggled for those changes 45:15.010 --> 45:18.930 And they've bled for those changes and it's their right to do that 45:18.930 --> 45:23.310 And the and it's their country and they should have that right to say hey 45:23.310 --> 45:26.990 We want this or we don't want this because again, it is their country 45:26.990 --> 45:31.730 Not ours. We have no business telling them what they should do 45:31.730 --> 45:32.870 but back then 45:33.550 --> 45:35.990 With the uh the hostage crisis 45:36.510 --> 45:43.570 They went into that embassy and that's how we found out about 1953 because the students went in they took over that embassy 45:43.570 --> 45:46.070 They were shredding all those documents. They brought them 45:46.070 --> 45:50.510 Uh, right, they took these shredded documents put them together and they found out wow 45:51.190 --> 45:56.110 They found out so many different things because it was the head of the cia operations 45:56.570 --> 45:58.970 um for the region uh, so 46:00.030 --> 46:05.130 So they found out a lot and if you you look at the way that the iranian government dealt with that situation 46:05.130 --> 46:09.850 They released all of the black hostages and they released all of the women hostages 46:10.430 --> 46:12.370 um on humanitarian grounds 46:12.910 --> 46:19.030 Uh because they said the african americans have struggled and been oppressed and women of course like it's humanitarian 46:19.030 --> 46:24.190 We're not gonna go and we're not gonna keep women right and they kept the rest of them and and the us ordered 46:24.770 --> 46:26.470 a a botched 46:26.850 --> 46:28.270 Special forces raid 46:28.950 --> 46:32.970 Which was a catastrophe inside of the country to retrieve them and again 46:32.970 --> 46:37.310 It's like the countries placed under sanctions the united states is harboring the shah 46:37.310 --> 46:45.750 Eventually, where did the shah died the shah died in exile in egypt and then like these cultists these weirdos 46:46.290 --> 46:52.710 Uh that you know a lot of them live in in the west who are iranian and iranian diaspora people 46:52.710 --> 46:58.630 They go over to the the shrine of uh the shah and and you know, I don't know 46:59.530 --> 47:04.630 Say prayers for him or whatever. I guess not prayers because they hate muslims so much and they hate islam 47:04.630 --> 47:07.150 And they deny the reality of their country 47:07.150 --> 47:13.550 Um and their history as well, but the funny thing is the shah was actually a practicing muslim 47:14.150 --> 47:16.230 Right, right. They hate is not so much 47:16.230 --> 47:20.410 It's ridiculously inconsistent and you know, but i'm even to the point of them 47:20.410 --> 47:26.050 Why does it even make sense that these people would go and pray and I guess praise the shah at his altar 47:26.050 --> 47:27.330 It wasn't I mean 47:27.330 --> 47:32.470 Unless you were in this upper elitist inner circle, which would then mean you weren't representative of the iranian people 47:32.470 --> 47:34.450 Then you know, you wouldn't feel that way 47:34.450 --> 47:39.110 So as I my mind is either people who do very much represent that that illegitimate position 47:39.110 --> 47:42.910 Or just doing it because they're being influenced today like marina. Uh, what is it? 47:43.090 --> 47:48.010 Um arena job and you know, all these u.s. State department funded people claiming it was iranian activism 47:48.010 --> 47:52.690 And you could look that up as well. It's documented on their own websites that they get funding from the u.s. Department of State 47:52.690 --> 47:56.330 They don't want to even admit that the revolution was popular 47:56.330 --> 48:02.270 They don't want to admit that and the reality was it was millions and millions of people 48:02.270 --> 48:05.090 It was a process that took years 48:05.090 --> 48:11.670 You know people suffered greatly people were disappeared by the internal security 48:12.330 --> 48:12.730 forces 48:13.420 --> 48:14.810 And tortured to death 48:15.350 --> 48:17.390 Um start the nest. What was it called again? 48:18.270 --> 48:18.970 I'm the 48:19.870 --> 48:22.030 Savak, I think yes. All right. There it is. Yeah 48:22.990 --> 48:24.730 um and and other 48:24.730 --> 48:28.190 As well like of course, there were other ways of 48:28.890 --> 48:33.390 Taking them and and seizing them and killing them and executing them and they followed them 48:33.390 --> 48:35.050 in some cases 48:35.750 --> 48:38.730 Overseas to to murder them. There is people 48:39.430 --> 48:39.950 uh 48:39.950 --> 48:46.190 Uh, there are significant in the history of the iranian revolution and the lead up to it 48:46.830 --> 48:49.750 Uh, like ali shariati, um who 48:50.430 --> 48:51.710 We won't get into right now 48:51.710 --> 48:56.330 But uh, there's a lot of speculation that he was assassinated in the united kingdom 48:56.330 --> 48:59.670 Um, some people say that he died due to health complications 48:59.670 --> 49:04.270 But he was tortured uh by the uh shah's forces 49:04.830 --> 49:09.090 Uh and and later fled but uh, what we should know 49:09.090 --> 49:15.970 Is that there were millions and millions of people and this was a very long drawn out process inside of iran 49:15.970 --> 49:20.590 Which involved all elements of the society who went on general strikes 49:20.590 --> 49:24.170 Who did everything in their power to collapse? 49:24.610 --> 49:28.190 The shah's pro-us pro-israeli regime 49:28.970 --> 49:29.710 and so 49:30.270 --> 49:34.830 When that happened there were forces like for instance the communist forces 49:35.510 --> 49:37.470 and islamic marxist forces 49:37.470 --> 49:43.610 Uh, and you know, many of them were not happy about the direction that the revolution went in 49:43.610 --> 49:49.670 Uh, and there were different groups that splintered off and then you have like these terrorist cults like the mek 49:49.670 --> 49:53.630 Which splintered off and even sided with sedan casane during the iran war 49:53.630 --> 49:58.730 Which currently the iran government broadly supports and is in fact one of the groups that many of the current u.s 49:58.730 --> 50:02.670 Administration wants to be in power when this might change just that's important to think about 50:02.670 --> 50:07.530 And they were designated as terrorist organization until taken off by was it clinton i think but i forget 50:07.530 --> 50:16.490 And i mean this is a deeply unpopular organization like look, there are these psychopaths who are very vocal in the iranian diaspora 50:16.990 --> 50:22.250 Who they're mentally ill. They're just mentally ill people. They they they are not coherent 50:22.250 --> 50:28.490 They have no grasp of the history at all and they are subscribed to cultist ideology 50:29.150 --> 50:30.730 Where they basically worship 50:31.330 --> 50:34.690 Uh, whether it's the mek or or the shah 50:35.250 --> 50:43.750 Uh worship of uh, reza pahlavi now who's just an israeli stooge. I mean this this is i honestly believe this if 50:43.750 --> 50:46.450 Reza pahlavi if his father was around 50:47.050 --> 50:52.970 The shah was around and and he saw the way he was behaving. He would execute his own son 50:53.770 --> 50:59.650 And at that i i'm i honestly think that's what he would do. He'd probably execute him 51:00.310 --> 51:06.170 It's just the reality that that's honestly knowing i know about the history. That's probably what he would do 51:07.830 --> 51:08.870 But this 51:09.390 --> 51:11.710 But just to to finish on this point 51:12.490 --> 51:18.610 These people do not represent the bulk of the iranian public and if you speak to a lot of iranians 51:18.610 --> 51:21.370 And i know many many many iranians inside and outside 51:21.910 --> 51:25.850 You have people who are more on the side of opposing very critical 51:25.850 --> 51:27.590 But sort of see themselves in the middle 51:27.590 --> 51:32.410 Well, they don't like the way the system is they have so many criticisms of it, right? 51:32.750 --> 51:34.310 And they can tell you, you know 51:34.310 --> 51:39.510 They can be talking to you all night about how much they hate this that and the other inside of their country 51:40.210 --> 51:47.250 And that probably is like a very big portion of the iranian population. They're like that very 51:48.690 --> 51:55.070 Just like an united exactly exactly like the united like every other country you can imagine 51:55.650 --> 51:55.930 um 51:55.930 --> 52:01.130 And most countries are like this and then there is a loyal base of supporters 52:01.130 --> 52:04.770 We're talking about a population that is over 92 million people 52:04.770 --> 52:10.550 There is probably around 20 to 30 million. It's estimated who are like loyal, right? 52:10.690 --> 52:14.750 And this is a large part because that government is a religious government 52:14.750 --> 52:17.450 And so it has a religious leadership 52:18.250 --> 52:20.370 And so for them, this is like a 52:21.030 --> 52:27.390 Something that is spiritual, you know, it's like catholics with the pope and the way that they owe allegiance to the pope 52:27.390 --> 52:30.290 It's the same thing what Trump's trying to create in this country 52:30.290 --> 52:34.610 And I think it's an extension of like basically the idea and I think that this again 52:34.610 --> 52:36.370 It comes down to what people's want for their country 52:36.370 --> 52:40.190 And I think that always has to be acknowledged and it's up for them to decide same with americans 52:40.190 --> 52:41.850 Same with same with israelis 52:41.850 --> 52:45.810 But it's worth noting that in any one of them including with iran, which is some of the criticisms 52:45.810 --> 52:48.290 It can be used to manipulate the population 52:48.290 --> 52:50.810 And I think that's what zionism is doing to his population 52:50.810 --> 52:56.330 I think that's what trump is trying to create and the reason I'm saying that is because I I see it as a dishonest use 52:56.330 --> 52:57.790 Now the same 52:57.790 --> 52:59.830 I'm sure people have the same criticism 52:59.830 --> 53:03.390 But what matters to me is whether people who not just iranians 53:03.390 --> 53:07.450 But rather people who practice the same religion believe what they're doing is in line with that religion 53:07.450 --> 53:09.830 I don't believe that's an even remotely close 53:09.830 --> 53:15.410 I mean, how can we look at a genocide or any act of war or bombing a school full of children and pretend like that in lines with 53:15.410 --> 53:19.290 What they're remotely practice now say again same criticism if we apply to iran 53:19.290 --> 53:23.270 But again, if you come down to like the nuclear war argument, they lie about these things 53:23.270 --> 53:27.270 They are if you look at the evidence it does back up. There's a fought one. They have not done it 53:27.270 --> 53:28.210 You know it's again 53:28.210 --> 53:31.110 It's I want everyone to look into these things for themselves and come to their own conclusions 53:31.110 --> 53:34.270 But I think that's a good way to look at the difference of how it's applied 53:34.890 --> 53:37.730 And how it's I mean even the point about zionism again 53:37.730 --> 53:41.450 It doesn't have to get into this part of it, but it is a misrepresentation of it 53:41.450 --> 53:46.090 It's a bastardization of it versus another framing of you know, we're thinking about that 53:46.090 --> 53:48.130 And I think it's like a weaponization of it if you get what I'm saying 53:48.790 --> 53:50.470 Yeah, no, I 53:51.070 --> 53:53.930 the conversation when we're talking about iran 53:54.790 --> 54:01.330 and you know, my expertise obviously I'm an analyst and I cover west asia my expertise is in like 54:02.030 --> 54:08.630 The levant sham, right? That's where my specific expertise is, but I know a decent amount about iran iranian history 54:09.290 --> 54:09.590 um 54:09.590 --> 54:12.650 And and somebody actually knows about iran 54:13.290 --> 54:20.110 Right, and I'm not saying I know them the most and I'm an expert, you know, and I can be compared to other voices 54:20.710 --> 54:22.350 On iran. I'm not saying that 54:22.350 --> 54:24.690 There are many people that are more educated 54:24.690 --> 54:31.370 However, when I'm just looking at the conversations that are had in the west and amongst some of these 54:32.350 --> 54:35.450 psychopaths, uh, you know who call themselves iranians 54:36.220 --> 54:40.750 Who you know parade around the uh old iranian monarchist flag? 54:40.970 --> 54:44.110 Not knowing that you know the symbology on it is 54:44.840 --> 54:48.750 Goes back to ali and it's actually religious, but regardless 54:49.360 --> 54:56.990 When I look at these conversations and the 30 000 killed protesters in the 40 000 and then it's 80 then it's 120 54:56.990 --> 55:04.310 You know, like why not say two billion protesters were killed in 15 minutes? Why not? It's just as lunatic 55:04.310 --> 55:12.310 It's just as crazy all of this talk about the regime and it's so evil and it's proxies and uh and all the nonsense 55:12.310 --> 55:20.370 It's about we're living in a different reality that they live in their own parallel universe where there's a there's an imaginary iran 55:20.890 --> 55:24.530 In a real iran, which is a country with problems 55:24.530 --> 55:31.670 Yes, it has its own system of government and it has its own people who should be the ones to decide their fate 55:31.670 --> 55:36.690 And here we are in the west talking about how bad they are and if you don't agree with that 55:36.690 --> 55:42.790 Look, I don't agree with I I personally I didn't like Saddam Hussein. I don't like I still 55:44.190 --> 55:48.990 There's nothing that you can really defend about that. I don't think he's a defendable character 55:48.990 --> 55:52.330 I think he did horrible things in iraq, but 55:52.830 --> 55:59.010 Was it right for the united states to go in and invade iraq and and which led to the deaths of a million people 55:59.530 --> 56:04.490 Or to impose sanctions on iraq which starved to death and and led to the deaths 56:05.090 --> 56:08.610 Or because of the lack of medicine all of that of hundreds of thousands of children 56:08.610 --> 56:11.830 No, and it doesn't matter what I think about Saddam Hussein 56:11.830 --> 56:15.890 I'm not iraqi and even if I am iraqi and i'm on the outside 56:15.890 --> 56:21.590 Who am I to go and on television and advocate for the bombing of a country? I no longer live 56:22.070 --> 56:23.370 It's so ridiculous 56:23.970 --> 56:28.250 I agree and the and the better way to you know to say is did it actually benefit the country? 56:28.250 --> 56:32.070 Did it achieve what they were trying to accomplish and or the real question? 56:32.170 --> 56:34.630 Were they even trying to and I that's a different conversation 56:34.630 --> 56:36.830 But I think we could know the history shows you today 56:36.830 --> 56:39.950 They were not but either way the hypothetical point is 56:40.530 --> 56:44.510 Asa Saddam Hussein wasn't a good guy and clearly that's why the u.s. Government worked with him 56:44.510 --> 56:46.550 But the point is that they took him out 56:47.210 --> 56:52.170 And destroyed the country for the purposes of what they claim they're trying to accomplish apply the same logic to iran 56:52.170 --> 56:54.270 Is it even if you think they're the worst group? 56:54.270 --> 57:00.070 Is it going to benefit the country to let this group who clearly is going to sell it out as best they can for their own benefit 57:00.070 --> 57:04.070 At the expense of everybody is it going to benefit the people and we know that's not the case 57:04.070 --> 57:06.270 But I I know we do I don't how much time you have left 57:06.270 --> 57:09.990 Let's let's come back to the list since we can let's kind of finish with the the break the overview 57:10.410 --> 57:11.750 How much time do you have left right now? 57:12.690 --> 57:15.450 We can keep going for a little bit and I should be good for 57:16.010 --> 57:19.130 Uh a little bit. I don't know about 15 minutes or so 57:19.130 --> 57:19.390 There you go 57:23.090 --> 57:27.150 So this and uh this I really to show you really quickly just because you had talked about this 57:27.150 --> 57:29.210 And I guarantee there are people out there that are 57:29.630 --> 57:34.770 Just probably just dismissed what you were saying about this event and just I'm not the grok saying it makes it true 57:34.770 --> 57:37.290 I always point it out. In fact, I'll go over in my next show 57:37.290 --> 57:42.350 I'm going to go over a very interesting point about how grok is clearly being programmed to be subjective to be 57:42.350 --> 57:46.790 To infer and assume and I get why that might be the case with like a conversational point 57:46.790 --> 57:50.570 But it is not in the interest of facts and information and it's used manipulatively a different point 57:50.570 --> 57:51.690 We'll get back to that in the next show 57:51.690 --> 57:56.810 But that's all said that it's a tool and it's often it's often wrong or 57:57.630 --> 58:01.970 Deliberately misinforming but it's still a tool and it's important to reach the certain people who may think that this 58:01.970 --> 58:06.350 May be more aligned with their personal partisan perspective and I think that's why you know 58:06.350 --> 58:11.250 It's worth thinking of it that way now in regard to the um, uh hostage situation 58:11.250 --> 58:17.910 Exactly what you highlighted deep anti-american sentiment had built over decades due to us support for the Shah's authoritarian regime 58:17.910 --> 58:25.210 Including the ci abat coup many Iranians viewed the u.s is responsible for the repression and corruption and ultimately their their values 58:25.210 --> 58:29.950 They pushed on them the immediate trigger was the carter administration's decision to allow him to be exiled to get treatment in 58:29.950 --> 58:35.030 New York as you highlighted rumors of the potential coup to reinstall him after that that's interesting too 58:35.030 --> 58:37.810 I didn't know that like they thought it might be put back in after that 58:37.810 --> 58:40.270 Which spoke to why they were acting the way they were 58:40.270 --> 58:42.890 79 November 4th the group of students 58:42.890 --> 58:48.290 Uh and ended up uh taking 66 american hostages as you said they did in fact let go 58:48.290 --> 58:54.630 Women african-americans and the main point for me is the students demanded the Shah be extradited for trial 58:54.630 --> 58:58.390 I mean just think about the claim these are monster terrorists who want to kill americans for no reason 58:58.390 --> 59:02.390 But they didn't kill any americans and let some of them go and then they wanted trial and process 59:02.390 --> 59:06.010 and officials wanted the u.s apology for the 59:06.670 --> 59:10.510 And for what happened and the release of frozen assets too 59:10.510 --> 59:13.430 You could even overlap that with the obama point and how often this is the case 59:13.430 --> 59:19.410 But the end result diplomatic negotiations were stalled economic sanctions were imposed including freezing their money 59:19.410 --> 59:22.170 Which you know if they took more vicious action 59:22.170 --> 59:25.090 Military rescue attempt as you said went wrong 59:25.670 --> 59:29.350 Negotiations ended up where ultimately they were given concessions give some money back 59:29.350 --> 59:31.870 But it hurt u.s relations with the wrong going forward 59:31.870 --> 59:37.110 52 hostages released in fact not a single person was killed and I think that's so incredible to me 59:37.110 --> 59:41.670 That we can frame that as something like how here's a better question. How was that even included? 59:42.310 --> 59:43.990 in this list of 59:44.670 --> 59:49.910 Americans being killed or I guess just terrorism against americans is how they're framing it, but it's mostly about 59:49.910 --> 59:54.710 Good good, but it's just look. It's just ridiculous. It's the big propaganda 59:55.310 --> 01:00:01.390 Uh story, you know and and it's often used and and look at the the rest of these on the list 01:00:01.390 --> 01:00:04.590 I mean look run back to his full law. It's like, right 01:00:05.090 --> 01:00:05.610 Which we covered 01:00:06.310 --> 01:00:13.070 Yeah, like as we looked at like has below and like and even some of these cases like the idea that 01:00:13.590 --> 01:00:17.190 Uh, this was a run. It's just so ridiculous like 01:00:17.870 --> 01:00:25.450 Uh, but I won't suppose get into the his full law attack on a u.s military personnel. But again, we're looking at 01:00:27.010 --> 01:00:27.390 Sorry 01:00:27.950 --> 01:00:28.450 It's okay 01:00:28.450 --> 01:00:34.130 Like I said, there's a little delay but before we move past it the the so we addressed the point that hezbo like so first of all 01:00:34.130 --> 01:00:38.530 As you already addressed these are not just iran. That's how they're trying to frame it that anything hezbo 01:00:38.530 --> 01:00:41.910 Is involved with is therefore iran did it? That's not the reality of this 01:00:41.910 --> 01:00:45.230 So that alone is ridiculous to just blotch include anything they did 01:00:45.230 --> 01:00:48.550 But then to the point I want your opinion and we won't go through every one of them 01:00:48.550 --> 01:00:50.090 But let's just say 1983 01:00:50.550 --> 01:00:54.510 Right, so it says that hezbollah killed 241 americans 01:00:54.510 --> 01:00:58.410 And it was a truck bombing at the a compound in beirut 01:00:58.410 --> 01:01:01.390 Now I don't you may I don't know if you're familiar with the exact event 01:01:01.390 --> 01:01:05.790 But in your mind is that something hezbollah might have done and I would argue 01:01:06.430 --> 01:01:09.250 What's going on? Go ahead. Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt 01:01:10.450 --> 01:01:13.430 Of their involvement. I mean this is in the early 01:01:14.430 --> 01:01:20.190 Stages of hezbollah as well like hezbollah. I think officially announced itself in 1985 01:01:21.010 --> 01:01:23.510 But this is the sort of early phases 01:01:24.190 --> 01:01:25.330 of the organization 01:01:26.890 --> 01:01:33.110 And so when we're looking at these events we're looking like at the end of the day the united states 01:01:33.770 --> 01:01:37.310 Was a belligerent occupying force to these people 01:01:37.310 --> 01:01:38.370 Exactly this 01:01:39.170 --> 01:01:40.670 We just watched and 01:01:41.630 --> 01:01:45.970 Exactly and 20,000 people had just been slaughtered 01:01:45.970 --> 01:01:50.250 Inside of Lebanon and the capital was besieged 01:01:51.050 --> 01:01:56.750 And that's the key context to this it didn't come out of nowhere like oh, hey these crazy people hezbollah 01:01:56.750 --> 01:01:59.890 They just popped up out of nowhere drove a truck into it 01:02:00.330 --> 01:02:04.250 You know and killed all of these and again their military personnel 01:02:04.870 --> 01:02:11.290 In a foreign country like when do you see them going over and killing and targeting american civilians? 01:02:12.050 --> 01:02:16.230 But where are where are the hezbollah? Where do they target american civilians? 01:02:16.870 --> 01:02:24.990 Where do you have any evidence evidence of it of them going into a foreign country in a western country and killing people there? 01:02:25.610 --> 01:02:28.730 There's a lot of these weird things that they say and they cite 01:02:29.310 --> 01:02:33.010 Right we're gonna get away to frame it for somebody who's an american right so hypothetically 01:02:33.010 --> 01:02:37.230 We're talking about is mexico seizes control of texas and then while that's happening 01:02:38.810 --> 01:02:42.550 Republicans decide to try to stop them and they bomb it. They bomb 01:02:43.130 --> 01:02:47.210 Military personnel who is occupying illegally texas is to inter republican out there 01:02:47.210 --> 01:02:50.250 Would you see that as a terrorist act as the republican you probably would not 01:02:50.250 --> 01:02:52.330 You know, I always love this point that somebody else 01:02:52.330 --> 01:02:56.530 I think it was david made this in the past and you know what they'd probably yell something about god when they did it 01:02:57.030 --> 01:03:00.350 Compare that to the idea of what they call terrorism and religious tear 01:03:00.350 --> 01:03:01.530 You know religious extremism 01:03:01.530 --> 01:03:04.470 It's just it's important to think of it like that and so but regardless 01:03:04.470 --> 01:03:07.590 Yes, the the story is that they killed american servicemen 01:03:07.590 --> 01:03:10.610 But does it make a difference to you out there if these were american servicemen? 01:03:10.710 --> 01:03:13.990 Which we know we're illegally occupying b-route and these was a force that was fighting back 01:03:13.990 --> 01:03:17.670 You know, it's the same point from them. They're illegally occupied and at this point 01:03:17.670 --> 01:03:18.710 I don't believe that was the case 01:03:18.710 --> 01:03:21.450 Well, I don't when was the geneva convention for the fort steven convention 01:03:21.450 --> 01:03:25.690 I forget the year but the point was today the legally occupied 01:03:25.690 --> 01:03:31.010 Illegally occupied territories have the right to arm resistance. So alone that would address that point, you know 01:03:31.890 --> 01:03:35.510 And so if you go down the list here like look, there's hezbollah 01:03:36.250 --> 01:03:40.710 Which we we've got into but if you look at down the list here, you've got hamas 01:03:40.710 --> 01:03:46.490 There's a hamas suicide bomber in 1995 there. I believe that you're looking at it's like, okay 01:03:46.490 --> 01:03:50.170 Like do you really like anyone that has any knowledge? 01:03:51.250 --> 01:03:52.630 to try and 01:03:53.190 --> 01:03:58.630 Claim that iran is behind hamas suicide bombings 01:03:59.210 --> 01:04:00.030 Is insane 01:04:00.690 --> 01:04:03.810 It's just stupid especially today with how much information 01:04:06.590 --> 01:04:14.150 And again, there's like there's cases. I think we looked at one earlier and it's like, oh, you know, they killed like an american 01:04:14.150 --> 01:04:21.410 Yeah, here's the one what uh iran back terrorists killed an american israeli jewel citizen and wounded another american in the west bank 01:04:21.410 --> 01:04:24.950 And if you look at what that attack is there israeli settlers 01:04:25.710 --> 01:04:26.530 They're settlers 01:04:27.870 --> 01:04:31.630 Literally illegal settlers. Yeah, they might have american passports 01:04:31.630 --> 01:04:39.490 But you know what israeli settlers many of them with his uh with uh with american passports have killed 01:04:40.050 --> 01:04:43.730 american palestinians in the west bank and the u.s 01:04:43.730 --> 01:04:47.350 Doesn't care and it does nothing and it never talks about it 01:04:47.350 --> 01:04:54.210 Just brushes it under the rug like it's nothing and these are these people themselves talking about terrorists and religious fundamental 01:04:54.630 --> 01:04:55.750 these people are 01:04:56.470 --> 01:04:58.050 religious fundamentalists 01:04:59.410 --> 01:05:02.450 Ideologues they they some of the worst that we can today 01:05:04.310 --> 01:05:09.090 Somebody that's been attacked by them personally. I have been attacked by them 01:05:09.750 --> 01:05:15.230 like I I know for a fact that these are fundamentalist extremists so 01:05:15.950 --> 01:05:23.010 Like the idea oh, well, there's an amer there's someone who's an american citizen who again, it's like context here 01:05:23.010 --> 01:05:28.770 Was this american citizen serving in the military and in a foreign country committing an occupation? 01:05:29.470 --> 01:05:38.430 Or invading a foreign like or was this person an illegal settler who probably lived in a heavily armed gated facility 01:05:38.430 --> 01:05:44.950 Guarded by an army that's illegally there against international law and stealing someone else's land 01:05:44.950 --> 01:05:49.090 And then was kidnapped or killed by the people that they're robbing like I mean 01:05:50.190 --> 01:05:56.370 It's just it's so dumb and from the foundation for defensive democracies. It's it's to be expected 01:05:56.370 --> 01:06:01.370 It's just that right that's the whole point is that this is being this was something posted 01:06:02.010 --> 01:06:07.830 In 2025 by a group clearly influenced by israeli intelligence that now the u.s. Government the white house 01:06:07.830 --> 01:06:11.470 Just parents like literally puts out the exact same list to justify this 01:06:11.470 --> 01:06:17.310 So clearly this is this is reactive, you know and the point before as I highlighted the article you put up that this 01:06:17.310 --> 01:06:23.070 Right now the religious extremism coming out of the Zionist elements and some of the settlers are the worst I've ever seen 01:06:23.070 --> 01:06:26.650 Are are you know one of the worst examples of that in the world today? 01:06:27.090 --> 01:06:30.450 And that's that's really important to understand and that that's even alongside the groups 01:06:30.450 --> 01:06:34.870 Which by the way we should understand are very much being funded armed and and 01:06:35.290 --> 01:06:36.590 basically, you know in many ways 01:06:37.250 --> 01:06:38.530 Conducted or are operated 01:06:39.350 --> 01:06:45.090 Uh isis and al-qaeda and I actually just went over this again recently in a show about the idea that isis and al-qaeda were 01:06:45.090 --> 01:06:49.350 Very much created by the united states. It's an open secret. We should all know that you and I've talked about this before 01:06:50.090 --> 01:06:51.850 um, but to go back to the list 01:06:52.730 --> 01:06:56.630 One of the things that was in here interesting is you know, because right we know of the palestinian islamic jihad 01:06:56.630 --> 01:07:00.610 It that represent that exists in hamas, but this is the islamic jihad 01:07:00.610 --> 01:07:04.370 So on that one we haven't talked about and I know we have a limited time just briefly like so 01:07:04.370 --> 01:07:09.770 This is 1995 islamic jihad terrorists killed eight people including one american citizen in gaza 01:07:09.770 --> 01:07:14.550 So was that at the time the palestinian islamic jihad or was that something that changed and do you think that represents iran? 01:07:15.650 --> 01:07:22.070 It doesn't represent iran, but look palestinian islamic jihad again. They like to frame all of these groups as being 01:07:23.170 --> 01:07:28.090 You know creations and islamic jihad in it's specific. They try and claim that it's a creation 01:07:28.770 --> 01:07:35.450 Of iran and that's just not correct. It was formed really in the like late 1970s 01:07:36.170 --> 01:07:42.610 It started committing armed operations before hamas by the way because there was sort of a competition between them and hamas 01:07:43.890 --> 01:07:48.830 That had arisen in the gaza strip where they emerged and islamic jihad 01:07:49.530 --> 01:07:51.690 uh emerged as sort of the 01:07:52.510 --> 01:07:56.150 group that had a lot more support amongst the 01:07:56.950 --> 01:08:00.410 poorer population in the gaza strip whereas hamas 01:08:00.890 --> 01:08:02.990 Uh, obviously it expanded later 01:08:03.410 --> 01:08:09.350 And especially for its charitable work and it became a much bigger organization because of its social programs 01:08:09.890 --> 01:08:13.390 um, and the islamic civil society sector that it set up 01:08:13.910 --> 01:08:14.330 but 01:08:14.790 --> 01:08:16.190 with islamic jihad 01:08:16.190 --> 01:08:23.190 What they did is they sort of were the pioneers of islamic 01:08:23.750 --> 01:08:26.790 styled resistance because before that in the gaza strip it was all 01:08:26.790 --> 01:08:31.930 Uh, nationalists, but really mainly the strongest power forces. There were 01:08:31.930 --> 01:08:33.970 communist groups in the gaza strip 01:08:33.970 --> 01:08:36.150 And so when they failed 01:08:36.920 --> 01:08:41.430 People were looking for a sort of new ideology or doctrine. And so many of those people 01:08:41.940 --> 01:08:45.650 that were formerly part of fattah or even 01:08:46.510 --> 01:08:52.070 Or even the pflp and other groups ended up joining islamic jihad 01:08:52.070 --> 01:08:54.250 And what they would do is literally they were 01:08:54.250 --> 01:08:55.890 This they were poor 01:08:55.890 --> 01:09:00.490 They would get their hands on a grenade and just throw it into an israeli military camp or just 01:09:01.030 --> 01:09:05.550 Open fire and very very rarely did they ever even kill any israeli soldiers 01:09:06.110 --> 01:09:08.910 And there was a big clash before the first intifada 01:09:09.550 --> 01:09:13.530 That they pulled off and all of the islamic jihad fighters were killed 01:09:14.230 --> 01:09:19.730 Um, which was sort of just right before the intifada, which was a non-violent uprising 01:09:19.730 --> 01:09:21.730 Which was when hamas emerge 01:09:22.290 --> 01:09:26.130 Because hamas before was like the social islamic organization 01:09:26.830 --> 01:09:27.770 Called the mujama 01:09:28.950 --> 01:09:35.850 But islamic jihad used to sort of fight back and forth with the mujama people because the mujama at that time 01:09:35.850 --> 01:09:37.190 Which later became hamas 01:09:37.190 --> 01:09:40.110 Were against armed resistance altogether 01:09:40.110 --> 01:09:44.090 They believed that you have to first unite the muslim umma 01:09:44.090 --> 01:09:49.250 So the muslim body and then afterwards when everyone's perfect muslim zen you can fight 01:09:49.830 --> 01:09:54.890 Um, I still argue there's opening right there for influence the funding we've talked about 01:09:54.890 --> 01:09:56.630 But I know it's not the same as complete control 01:09:56.630 --> 01:09:59.930 But I do feel like there was an influence there from that element that that 01:10:00.450 --> 01:10:06.430 Ultimately did drive them in a direction to become more that of the thing that could be used to justify certain responses 01:10:06.430 --> 01:10:10.490 We don't have to get into all that we've talked about it many times and I think your opinion is the best 01:10:10.490 --> 01:10:13.670 I've heard on it, you know, that's more nuanced, but I find that interesting. Yeah 01:10:13.670 --> 01:10:17.590 Hamas islamic jihad is separate. So they're a separate group 01:10:19.970 --> 01:10:21.290 Um, yeah 01:10:21.290 --> 01:10:27.150 Yeah, hamas. So the mujama, which was active in the 70s in the 80s 01:10:27.150 --> 01:10:33.130 So they were officially given approval by the israeli occupying authorities 01:10:33.690 --> 01:10:36.510 Um, and they even got some funding given to them 01:10:36.510 --> 01:10:42.150 And again, the reason why they got given this funding and the approval to operate was because at the start 01:10:42.150 --> 01:10:46.870 They did a lot of look they did a lot of good work. They founded things like the islamic 01:10:46.870 --> 01:10:55.210 University in the gaza strip, uh, the islamic the islamic civil sector civil societies sector is 01:10:55.790 --> 01:10:59.890 Uh, was better than anything else that uh was on offer 01:10:59.890 --> 01:11:04.030 It really developed and they did a lot for the people a lot of charity and stuff like this 01:11:04.030 --> 01:11:04.510 but 01:11:05.110 --> 01:11:09.390 This organization was against violence against the israelis 01:11:09.930 --> 01:11:16.610 Some of their activists would go into the streets and attack people for not being conservative enough for drinking alcohol 01:11:17.330 --> 01:11:19.050 For not dressing a certain way 01:11:19.590 --> 01:11:23.550 Stuff like this and the israelis quite frankly didn't mind that they would like that 01:11:23.550 --> 01:11:26.050 They like people that are like that, right? 01:11:26.550 --> 01:11:28.390 whereas if you look at islamic jihad 01:11:29.130 --> 01:11:34.530 Islamic jihad from the start was fighting and so from the start they wanted to hunt them down and kill them 01:11:34.530 --> 01:11:37.070 They didn't give them any authorization or anything like that 01:11:37.650 --> 01:11:40.350 But then in the mid 1980s 01:11:40.350 --> 01:11:42.450 Uh, the mujama set up 01:11:43.090 --> 01:11:49.510 Something which was called an masjid, which was the security apparatus, which they then formed 01:11:49.950 --> 01:11:54.570 For this organization and so they suddenly started arming themselves 01:11:55.370 --> 01:12:00.050 And so when that happened and this is where people like yahya sinwar 01:12:00.850 --> 01:12:04.350 and uh, the founder of the mujama and then hamas 01:12:04.350 --> 01:12:08.570 Uh, ahmed yasin started getting in trouble with the israeli authorities 01:12:08.570 --> 01:12:15.250 They started arresting them and torturing them and going after their people and from that point on 01:12:15.930 --> 01:12:19.790 That's when they started to form real serious armed cells 01:12:20.470 --> 01:12:25.170 Up until the point of the intifada in 1987 01:12:25.950 --> 01:12:31.390 Uh, they really they they took this seriously and they formed, uh, the gossam 01:12:31.390 --> 01:12:34.910 El gossam brigades in, uh 01:12:35.430 --> 01:12:35.830 later 01:12:36.730 --> 01:12:43.190 officially, uh, but uh, they had this sort of security apparatus and those fighters by 1988 01:12:43.190 --> 01:12:47.550 And really they didn't get going until the 1990s like 01:12:47.550 --> 01:12:55.070 To be honest like in terms of a serious military organization at that point israel was hunting them down and murdering them and 01:12:55.070 --> 01:13:01.390 Uh, there's a there's a lot to go into there. The reason why I talked about aslamic jihad and hamas though 01:13:01.950 --> 01:13:02.590 was because 01:13:03.450 --> 01:13:11.430 To show you that they're not simply organizations that and and and the and another point here to this is 01:13:11.430 --> 01:13:14.230 They didn't start getting funding 01:13:15.130 --> 01:13:15.730 from 01:13:16.590 --> 01:13:21.830 Iran until the 1990s until the early 1990s. That's when iran started backing them 01:13:21.830 --> 01:13:26.250 So the whole idea and concept that these groups were like, you know 01:13:26.250 --> 01:13:29.970 Iranian proxies that iran created in the gaza strip 01:13:29.970 --> 01:13:33.410 No, like the reason why i'm telling you all of this stuff and going into this whole 01:13:34.670 --> 01:13:43.890 Um, you know rabbit hole here and elaborating on this and rambling a little bit is just to demonstrate that these groups were functioning in a society 01:13:44.450 --> 01:13:51.770 Completely separate to iran and they had their own disputes and everything way before iran came in and provided them funding 01:13:52.330 --> 01:13:58.150 Um, and the reason they got this backing from iran was because their leaders were all exiled by the israelis 01:13:58.150 --> 01:14:04.190 They were in prison and then exiled to lebanon and that's where they started getting those connections with iran 01:14:04.190 --> 01:14:04.870 so 01:14:06.070 --> 01:14:11.390 That's an important thing to know like again, and it goes against the notion of proxies and all of this 01:14:11.390 --> 01:14:13.130 No, these are organic movements 01:14:13.130 --> 01:14:18.970 These are organic movements. You can love them. You can hate them. You can have lots of criticisms of them 01:14:18.970 --> 01:14:24.610 You can have barely any it doesn't matter, but they're not proxies. They're just not and it's 01:14:24.610 --> 01:14:26.010 Correct the point today 01:14:26.010 --> 01:14:29.090 Right, there's a lot of different things to get into but the real and you know 01:14:29.090 --> 01:14:31.710 Like you just said it doesn't mean that we have to think they're the best story 01:14:31.710 --> 01:14:36.390 You can still think they're terrorist organizations, but it's just not what they're claiming and the allegations 01:14:36.390 --> 01:14:39.890 They're trying to lay at their feet in many cases are whole cloth lies 01:14:39.890 --> 01:14:44.630 So what last couple minutes? Let's just finish down the list and ultimately anything jumps out to you that you 01:14:44.630 --> 01:14:46.970 Want to make sure you discuss let me know but you know it just continues 01:14:46.970 --> 01:14:49.530 I mean 90 percent of these if not more are 01:14:49.530 --> 01:14:54.690 Iran backed something Iran backed Hezbollah run back to Moss, which we just went over how these are not the real 01:14:54.690 --> 01:14:55.190 well, I guess 01:14:55.690 --> 01:15:00.210 You could the point I make is that when they say Iran backed and very clearly. I mean even 01:15:01.110 --> 01:15:04.770 Yeah, I mean they're they're literally talking about the proxies like that's the way they're framing it 01:15:04.770 --> 01:15:09.470 But Iran backed is not necessarily incorrect, but it is when you know the way they're trying to make the case 01:15:09.470 --> 01:15:10.690 That's what I'm just trying to make clear 01:15:10.690 --> 01:15:12.430 But ultimately they're not proxies 01:15:12.430 --> 01:15:17.810 But the overall that these were attacks carried out by Hezbollah or Hamas or jihad and that's not aran 01:15:17.810 --> 01:15:21.250 Doing that but the old the point is can see it jumps out to me 01:15:24.470 --> 01:15:26.290 Sorry, sorry to interrupt 01:15:26.290 --> 01:15:34.770 But if you go down there it says in 2001 2002 that there was an attack carried out by the al-Aqsa martyrs brigades. Okay now 01:15:36.190 --> 01:15:43.810 The al-Aqsa martyrs brigades were uh, essentially created by Yasser Arafat. Arafat was not backed by 01:15:44.690 --> 01:15:47.670 Iran Iran was not the one backing these groups 01:15:48.310 --> 01:15:53.070 At that time. I mean it's so like again an al-Aqsa martyrs brigades, by the way 01:15:53.910 --> 01:15:58.510 Were from the secular fatih group. They're not an islamic group, right? 01:15:58.570 --> 01:16:01.050 They might have been muslims, but they're they're not an islamic group 01:16:01.050 --> 01:16:07.250 That's not their ideology like Hamas and jihad and some of the others like there's many different ones which emerged afterwards 01:16:07.250 --> 01:16:11.670 Which now exists today, but al-Aqsa martyrs brigade were affiliated with 01:16:11.670 --> 01:16:16.690 um, specifically as well during the days of yasser arafat 01:16:16.690 --> 01:16:17.590 um 01:16:18.150 --> 01:16:20.170 to fight against the israelis, so 01:16:21.570 --> 01:16:24.310 Again, it's it's it's 01:16:24.310 --> 01:16:26.450 Stupid it's just dumb 01:16:26.930 --> 01:16:30.350 But I wanted to note that because I saw it there and I was like, okay 01:16:30.350 --> 01:16:33.390 Like let's pinpoint on this because this is a secular group 01:16:33.390 --> 01:16:39.670 Which again, this is just nonsense like iran is not responsible for a group that was fighting on behalf of arafat, you know 01:16:40.390 --> 01:16:44.170 I was just laughing about this to the day that it's you know, that's why I was saying like in the beginning 01:16:44.170 --> 01:16:49.630 You know, it's some of these things are so self-evident like just so like objectively not the game that it's like 01:16:49.630 --> 01:16:52.370 It's I find it hard to engage with them like we take it seriously 01:16:52.370 --> 01:16:52.710 You know 01:16:52.710 --> 01:16:56.010 But we it's important to do it for those that may we don't want to look like we're being 01:16:56.010 --> 01:16:59.570 You know derisive or that we're just dismissing things we are that we're going to the evidence 01:16:59.570 --> 01:17:00.150 That's the point 01:17:00.150 --> 01:17:05.150 But you know these things it's it is absurd to make these allegations and I was saying this about a lot of things 01:17:05.150 --> 01:17:08.850 In fact, one of them was the idea that you can without question 01:17:08.850 --> 01:17:13.830 Show how isis and al-qaeda were not just by a byproduct allowed to be created 01:17:13.830 --> 01:17:17.310 But were created and actually stoked and actions were taken by the u.s 01:17:17.310 --> 01:17:22.370 Government and and israel in many cases to literally for you know, these are not questionable 01:17:22.370 --> 01:17:25.690 So it's frustrating that we have to keep acting like it's a nuance to pin 01:17:25.690 --> 01:17:28.630 You know, like you said, you know, well, they're all this but let's talk about the facts 01:17:28.630 --> 01:17:31.390 It's like, you know, don't throw them the fake bones address the facts 01:17:31.390 --> 01:17:35.950 That's all that matters and one of them likes that's why i'm saying this al-qaeda suicide bombs, you know 01:17:36.670 --> 01:17:42.590 It's it's ridiculous that we even take seriously that by the way these groups isis in particular that has 01:17:42.590 --> 01:17:46.370 Like I just pointed out over 2025 suddenly attacks 01:17:47.310 --> 01:17:51.050 Iran and then takes credit for it yet. They're still the state sponsor of terrorism 01:17:51.050 --> 01:17:53.510 And it's happens to be right when israel's criticizing them 01:17:53.510 --> 01:17:57.490 Yeah, you know, it's just it's embarrassing that we can't take it and take see what that is 01:17:57.490 --> 01:17:59.810 But whether or not you think it's tied to something else 01:18:00.270 --> 01:18:01.270 Iran is not 01:18:01.870 --> 01:18:06.410 Connected to al-qaeda and isis not a yaw logic. Like these are these are sunni ultimate groups 01:18:06.410 --> 01:18:08.250 Like these are not it doesn't make any sense 01:18:08.250 --> 01:18:15.070 But it works for people who don't understand even what that is or why the shiite sunni conversation is very important for israel's religious war 01:18:15.070 --> 01:18:17.770 Or what they're really trying to do, but it's just, you know, same kind of point 01:18:17.770 --> 01:18:20.350 It all doesn't make much sense, but almas backed 01:18:20.790 --> 01:18:25.290 Iran backed popular resistance committees. I'm not i'm not you know any reference to that 01:18:25.290 --> 01:18:26.950 um, then the main 01:18:27.650 --> 01:18:35.310 Okay, right. And so the main point so same point then january 2007 a dozen men affiliated with the irgc 01:18:35.810 --> 01:18:37.750 Cuds force kills five u.s soldiers 01:18:37.750 --> 01:18:41.970 Now this is where we start to get into what I think is interesting where we're talking about in many cases 01:18:41.970 --> 01:18:47.010 You know action like iraq overlaps syria overlaps. We're talking about situations where you're you know, p.m 01:18:47.010 --> 01:18:50.250 You responding to illegal actions from these occupying forces 01:18:50.250 --> 01:18:56.250 And so whether you're talking about a tangential group or that whether it's around or not that they're just responding to illegal occupation 01:18:56.250 --> 01:18:59.790 There's really no way to see these as anything other than misrepresentations 01:19:00.390 --> 01:19:00.870 um 01:19:00.870 --> 01:19:07.250 This one's different former fbi agent happens to disappear in iran likely dying in his ron print. Do you know anything about that one? 01:19:09.210 --> 01:19:09.690 Likely 01:19:10.250 --> 01:19:12.990 Yeah, that I personally don't actually 01:19:12.990 --> 01:19:15.390 Didn't heard of that before to be honest with you 01:19:15.390 --> 01:19:16.270 um 01:19:16.870 --> 01:19:22.070 I don't know why I missed that like I should know about that, but I don't know why I don't know about this 01:19:22.070 --> 01:19:27.870 Like I I hadn't something that's not something was on my radar. They're really according to state department officials 01:19:27.870 --> 01:19:32.230 Which right there should be a red flag was never publicly seen or heard from again. Well, okay 01:19:32.230 --> 01:19:34.650 So by that very point then we don't know what happened 01:19:35.650 --> 01:19:40.370 Exactly. So why is he on your list? Right? Well, I think it's one of these so 01:19:43.170 --> 01:19:48.590 Right, but so ron back to moth ron back to moth ron back and this is this is kateeb haspola, right? 01:19:48.590 --> 01:19:50.970 So it's the same. It's what that rack groups, right? 01:19:51.830 --> 01:19:57.530 Yeah, so now we're getting into the groups which were formed after like kata kata ispola is 01:19:57.530 --> 01:19:59.470 Uh part of the p.m. You 01:20:00.110 --> 01:20:04.230 Um, right, right and again like now look at these attacks here 01:20:04.230 --> 01:20:10.570 It's like oh, well, there was a hundred and one a hundred and nine troops that suffered traumatic brain injuries because 01:20:10.570 --> 01:20:15.730 You assassinated it runs top general and then they retaliated. Is it like 01:20:16.350 --> 01:20:20.890 Literally no legal response and and and again like we were dealing with today 01:20:20.890 --> 01:20:23.810 Well, actually salamani was a little different since they bombed him in iraq 01:20:23.810 --> 01:20:26.710 But today, you know is the u.s. Is bombing in iran 01:20:26.710 --> 01:20:30.770 So iran would have every legal right to have responded bomb the united states 01:20:30.770 --> 01:20:33.670 And I don't want that to happen, but they're not doing that that's restrained 01:20:33.670 --> 01:20:37.350 And so in this case, you know, it's the same kind of idea. They were bombed. They were attacked illegally 01:20:37.350 --> 01:20:39.710 In fact, the most disgusting part of that as you know 01:20:39.710 --> 01:20:41.990 Was they invited him under the guise of diplomacy? 01:20:41.990 --> 01:20:46.910 And as I understand it the only reason he wanted him to come to iraq to kill him was because they still were arguing 01:20:46.910 --> 01:20:49.690 They could use the 2002 a umf and it was 01:20:50.270 --> 01:20:54.010 Destabilizing iraq by being there and so they murdered him. That's that was that's the logic 01:20:54.010 --> 01:20:56.290 I believe they were trying to operate under but they murdered him 01:20:56.290 --> 01:21:01.110 And so they responded and bombed the us base in iraq and they claimed that was it, you know 01:21:01.110 --> 01:21:02.310 terrorism I guess 01:21:02.310 --> 01:21:07.010 to 2020 same indicated rani regime was considering a plot to assassinate selva 01:21:07.010 --> 01:21:09.390 Okay, the u.s. Intelligence says 01:21:10.290 --> 01:21:16.010 Iran rocket killed american citizen in iraqi Kurdistan, you know, and again, we're not talking about rani and rockets right there 01:21:16.010 --> 01:21:16.990 We're talking about the pmu 01:21:17.790 --> 01:21:24.190 I mean any number of examples or irgc orchestrated the killing of american citizen and bagdad, you know these some of these i'm not um 01:21:25.470 --> 01:21:31.110 I don't the exact instances, but rani officer charged with orchestrating murder of us citizen iraq, you know 01:21:31.110 --> 01:21:33.950 My argument was if you go through this information, you'll likely 01:21:34.930 --> 01:21:39.230 Find out that you know, this is coming from something the us is claiming but is iran capable 01:21:39.230 --> 01:21:43.710 Of killing something through me. Yes, and also this is any legal occupation of iraq, you know 01:21:43.710 --> 01:21:47.410 All of these abuses have already been discussed, you know rather justifications 01:21:48.310 --> 01:21:49.010 I'm trying to 01:21:49.010 --> 01:21:51.950 Jump in if you if you have any thoughts 01:21:52.450 --> 01:21:59.410 No, and all of this is like if you compare it to the amount of iranians that have been killed in the region in their 01:21:59.410 --> 01:22:03.210 own region and over their own airspace by the israelis 01:22:03.210 --> 01:22:04.630 It doesn't compare 01:22:05.190 --> 01:22:06.950 by the american sorry 01:22:06.950 --> 01:22:12.750 Uh, the u.s. Military has caused way more death and destruction to the iranian people 01:22:13.270 --> 01:22:21.130 Um, and so it's just ridiculous and there have been assassinations carried out by the united states and the israelis inside of iran for decades 01:22:21.130 --> 01:22:23.670 No, it's it's so 01:22:24.330 --> 01:22:26.990 Ridiculous these arguments and then look at it like 01:22:27.570 --> 01:22:32.150 It's good that we've gone for this list because they're just clutching at straws 01:22:32.150 --> 01:22:36.870 You know, it's like the fact that they put al qaeda on there 01:22:36.870 --> 01:22:37.870 and 01:22:37.870 --> 01:22:45.610 They put all at the iran's response not even killing americans injuring right because they didn't admit any deaths 01:22:45.610 --> 01:22:50.950 Right, so injuring americans with a retaliatory strike on a u.s. Base 01:22:51.540 --> 01:22:56.110 Uh, you know, they're clutching at straws and they can't produce this thousands number 01:22:56.700 --> 01:22:58.910 Even when they're clutching at straws 01:22:58.910 --> 01:23:01.930 Um, which I think just demonstrates how ridiculous 01:23:02.590 --> 01:23:09.430 This argument is that they put out and like we're like we were talking about earlier. They live in this parallel universe 01:23:09.910 --> 01:23:14.450 You know, the iran that they're talking about is not the real iran that exists 01:23:15.370 --> 01:23:20.250 You know, that's the most of their propaganda in the world are really just most propaganda from any country 01:23:20.250 --> 01:23:24.810 But just to wrap up in general, you know, now we're in the realm of what we've been dealing with 01:23:24.810 --> 01:23:28.330 You know, where we were talking about where this has been the posture has been obvious 01:23:28.330 --> 01:23:32.130 Trump can't stop telling you how he needs to remove iran his last administration now 01:23:32.130 --> 01:23:36.610 And so they clearly recognize that they're under threat just like they knew this was going to come 01:23:36.610 --> 01:23:38.670 And that's why they warned if you do it, we're going to respond this way 01:23:38.670 --> 01:23:41.130 You know and and we didn't get into it because that's the point today 01:23:41.130 --> 01:23:44.890 But the evidence is undeniably clear based on their own statements that there was no eminent threat 01:23:44.890 --> 01:23:49.310 And so they this is all illegal regardless, but they're now citing these responses 01:23:49.310 --> 01:23:52.850 You know june 2025 iran-backed militias attacked at least three bases 01:23:52.850 --> 01:23:59.690 You know, this is stuff that's responding to what they're doing in the area 12. They wore forward even the most recent examples 01:23:59.690 --> 01:24:04.090 Which they could tack on in regard to anything that's happening. You know, it's obviously about 01:24:04.630 --> 01:24:05.030 their 01:24:06.290 --> 01:24:11.690 Justifiable responses to what the us and israel are doing in the world. I mean, this is this is not about taking sides 01:24:11.690 --> 01:24:14.870 It's about the legality. It's the reality of international law 01:24:14.870 --> 01:24:17.970 It's the reality of what the us and israel have always been doing in my experience 01:24:17.970 --> 01:24:20.550 And if you want to criticize like we have today in some ways 01:24:20.550 --> 01:24:24.190 What iran does in their country or what they do in their foreign policy then go at it 01:24:24.190 --> 01:24:28.190 That's not the same point is recognizing the us is lying about what they're doing 01:24:28.190 --> 01:24:29.610 And I just think that has to matter 01:24:29.610 --> 01:24:33.910 And I thought that list needed to be broken down because right now they're using this argument to 01:24:33.910 --> 01:24:40.270 I mean really I think create another forever never-ending ongoing kind of middle east discussion, you know 01:24:40.270 --> 01:24:41.690 And i'm very worried about that 01:24:41.690 --> 01:24:45.970 Then you know any final thoughts and i'll just kind of rattle off some some points here on the uh 01:24:45.970 --> 01:24:50.730 On the screen for people to see, you know with what we're dealing with right now and the road to the ground forces and 01:24:50.730 --> 01:24:52.610 Anyway, go ahead any any last thoughts 01:24:53.530 --> 01:24:58.790 No, I just say that obviously this work does not serve us interests. I think the israelis 01:24:58.790 --> 01:25:01.950 Ultimately, they're willing to drag down the us economy 01:25:02.730 --> 01:25:06.290 They're willing to destroy the us if it's going to come to that 01:25:07.090 --> 01:25:14.370 And and and the presidency of of donald trump at that and also I think their aim is to degrade 01:25:14.990 --> 01:25:16.850 the persian gold states 01:25:17.390 --> 01:25:23.710 To degrade the iranian economy by going after civilian targets by going after its infrastructure 01:25:24.110 --> 01:25:26.890 And then hoping that they survive at the end of this 01:25:27.870 --> 01:25:29.770 so that then uh 01:25:30.550 --> 01:25:35.890 In essence what they've done is it created the uh the conditions 01:25:36.570 --> 01:25:43.870 Where in the future the iranian government might be weaker and there might be more chance for a regime change effort using 01:25:44.370 --> 01:25:47.810 Their own proxies on the ground to do it 01:25:48.510 --> 01:25:50.050 Like we saw a similar 01:25:50.870 --> 01:25:54.630 Scenario in syria. I don't believe this will work personally 01:25:55.250 --> 01:26:02.170 I think all of this death and destruction is ultimately going to result in a loss for the united states military 01:26:02.650 --> 01:26:09.950 And a loss for the israelis, but that's what they're trying to do and they're very desperate and they have been since october 7 01:26:10.640 --> 01:26:14.990 They believe that if they can't crush iran 01:26:15.560 --> 01:26:19.270 And they can't achieve their greater israel project 01:26:19.840 --> 01:26:25.070 Then they won't exist in the long term and I believe that that assessment is actually correct 01:26:25.070 --> 01:26:31.730 Because in terms of what they deem as existing as as israel and greater israel 01:26:32.480 --> 01:26:33.890 That can't exist 01:26:34.380 --> 01:26:36.590 In the long term it just won't 01:26:36.590 --> 01:26:38.670 Now they could have they had an opportunity 01:26:39.410 --> 01:26:42.830 To be able to exist and to have their place secured in the region 01:26:43.550 --> 01:26:45.370 But they chose not to do 01:26:46.030 --> 01:26:48.910 The so-called two-state solution, which I thought was 01:26:48.910 --> 01:26:54.950 A terrible solution for the palestinian people. It's not fair at all to them. However 01:26:56.090 --> 01:26:59.410 The palestinian leadership at the time would have taken it 01:27:00.110 --> 01:27:03.910 It's very clear and then they could have been integrated into the whole region 01:27:03.910 --> 01:27:08.230 Everyone would have accepted them everyone signed on to that the arab peace initiative 01:27:08.230 --> 01:27:10.370 You can look up the arab peace initiative 01:27:10.370 --> 01:27:16.470 They had the chance and they didn't want it. So now americans are gonna die 01:27:16.470 --> 01:27:20.430 You're gonna pay a lot more to fill up your tank 01:27:21.050 --> 01:27:27.570 And there's gonna be inflation and and your what you're paying there when you go and fill up your tank is the israel premium 01:27:28.310 --> 01:27:31.610 You're paying the israel premium there. You're paying for this war 01:27:33.210 --> 01:27:34.450 directly and so 01:27:35.810 --> 01:27:40.290 That's that's where things stand right now. It's it's sad, but unfortunately, you know 01:27:40.290 --> 01:27:44.250 There's not even people on the street in opposition to this that could change because 01:27:44.810 --> 01:27:50.110 It's going to personally affect them going forward. So it could change but 01:27:51.770 --> 01:27:54.410 Again, like this is a terrible decision 01:27:54.410 --> 01:28:02.850 On the part of the u.s leadership and it just demonstrates that this trump administration is completely captured by the israel lobby 01:28:03.610 --> 01:28:08.590 Completely captured has no mind of its own. It just serves israel's interests 01:28:09.270 --> 01:28:13.570 Yeah, and I you know, and I think the world and especially the u.s 01:28:13.850 --> 01:28:19.390 Population is is great is coming to terms with that and that doesn't mean it's you know, it's not something that 01:28:19.930 --> 01:28:24.930 Is you know, it's something that we can overcome like anything else as much as it may seem insurmountable 01:28:24.930 --> 01:28:30.710 And I'll also add to finish that this is something that's now being jumped on as a last-ditch effort in my opinion to justify 01:28:30.710 --> 01:28:37.350 Why trump somehow is always, you know, like the the very point of being controlled by israel is now being floated as why he's not responsible 01:28:37.350 --> 01:28:43.830 But at the same time that it turns out that he is only doing this at his own expense to fight for us from within the broken system 01:28:43.830 --> 01:28:47.270 Glenn beck is genuinely arguing that he's he always knew this would happen 01:28:47.270 --> 01:28:53.730 He knew israel controlled the democrats, right? So he worked his way in in order to to to control what he could 01:28:54.350 --> 01:28:55.530 I'm just go. It's 01:28:55.970 --> 01:28:56.690 evidence-free 01:28:58.150 --> 01:29:01.950 Grapp blinds a self-serving assumption to just give yourself like right now 01:29:01.950 --> 01:29:05.450 There's so many people that are starting to see that they were not what they said they were 01:29:05.450 --> 01:29:09.190 And then you get a glen deck that gives them something that goes. Oh, they can go. Oh, thank god 01:29:09.190 --> 01:29:14.070 I knew I was right to score ignore everything else. It turns out. I really was right trump was really sacrificing for us 01:29:14.070 --> 01:29:16.830 Just be smarter than that guys. It's quite obvious 01:29:16.830 --> 01:29:22.250 This is not what this this is not what you were promised and every everything they're doing other than this is showing that as well 01:29:22.250 --> 01:29:25.290 I'm just glad it's happening. So thank you again, robert for for joining us 01:29:25.290 --> 01:29:30.070 We can do this more often and I'll leave you with a clip from patrick clauson that I think is always important 01:29:30.070 --> 01:29:34.430 So as always everybody out there question everything come to your own conclusions. Stay vigilant 01:29:35.430 --> 01:29:38.670 I frankly think that crisis initiation is really tough 01:29:39.750 --> 01:29:42.250 And it's very hard for me to see how the united states 01:29:44.650 --> 01:29:46.610 President can get us to war with iran 01:29:48.770 --> 01:29:52.730 Which leads me to conclude that if in fact compromise is not coming 01:29:53.530 --> 01:29:58.930 That the traditional way of america gets to war is what would be best for you as interests 01:30:00.090 --> 01:30:04.090 Some people might think that mr. Roosevelt wanted to get us into world war two as david mentioned 01:30:04.090 --> 01:30:05.790 You may recall. We had to wait for pearl harbor 01:30:06.390 --> 01:30:11.990 Some people might think mr. Wilson wanted to get us into world war one. You may recall. He had to wait for the lucetani episode 01:30:12.470 --> 01:30:16.430 Some people might think that mr. Johnson wanted to send troops to vietnam. You may recall 01:30:16.430 --> 01:30:18.370 We had to wait for the gulf of tonkin episode 01:30:19.270 --> 01:30:23.290 We didn't go to war with spain until the uss until the main exploded 01:30:23.810 --> 01:30:29.810 And may I point out that mr. Lincoln did not feel he could call out the federal army until fort sumter was attacked 01:30:29.810 --> 01:30:35.970 Which is why he ordered the commander at fort sumter to do exactly that thing which the south carolinians had said would cause 01:30:36.410 --> 01:30:36.850 Attack 01:30:38.070 --> 01:30:43.410 So if in fact the iranians aren't going to compromise it would be best if somebody else started the war 01:30:47.690 --> 01:30:49.990 But I would just like to suggest that 01:30:50.590 --> 01:30:53.310 One can combine other means of pressure with sanctions 01:30:53.970 --> 01:30:55.630 I mentioned that explosion 01:30:56.250 --> 01:30:59.470 On august 17th, we could step up the pressure 01:31:01.050 --> 01:31:05.730 I mean look people iranian submarines periodically go down someday one of them might not come up 01:31:05.730 --> 01:31:07.090 Who would know why? 01:31:08.650 --> 01:31:11.110 We can do a variety of things if we wish to 01:31:11.110 --> 01:31:15.350 Increase the pressure. I'm not advocating that but I'm just suggesting that 01:31:16.290 --> 01:31:22.610 This is not a either or proposition of you know, it's just sanctions has to has to succeed or other things 01:31:23.350 --> 01:31:24.710 We are in the game 01:31:25.450 --> 01:31:27.990 Of using covert means against the iranians 01:31:30.050 --> 01:31:32.150 We we could get nastier at that