Okay, I'm welcome to the Delling Pod with me James Delling Poll and I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest
But before we meet her even though you can see her already. Let's have a word from our sponsor
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Delling pole forward slash
Welcome back to the the Delling pod
honorary dick substitute
Whatever Tony Edwards
I've got various things to tell you but I'm sure you I'm sure you've got loads to talk about Tony
but I was to tell you about my
my morning and
As you know, we're starting this
Early, well, I mean relatively early. It's it's 10 o'clock, which is it's kind of annoying time to start a podcast and I explained to you
That I had to go to a hospital
That's why I was finding about time because because I've broken my finger and
on a horse obviously
And I had an appointment in the hospital this afternoon at
Like one o'clock or something
um and
Last Friday as I was driving back from
From seeing dick in Worcester. I wound down
Okay, well, I've there's nothing wrong with my internet James until I speak to you
But I think I might be some sort of tech demon because this even happened with your new best friend
and
So I move
I was gonna ask you was my story that boring
Well, it's really just appeared for you to start at it. I haven't had one second
Okay, it's telling me that it's uploading this threading trap and I was much better off before because I was really well positioned in the dark
And I'm in horrible day and night, which isn't my best look
Then anyway, sorry. I don't know what happened. It's not top light
No, whatever that is. I know you girls worry about top light
Apparently done the flatterings on it. Well, the whole thing's on flattering days and I'm also holding on it doesn't matter
Let's hear your story. I do I don't care. I can just I'll just see a blur. You just like kind of yeah
So people are not gonna
Be able to focus on you. Um, I was telling you my exciting story before you rudely interrupted by disappearing
so I
was driving back from seeing dick on real dick as opposed to honorary dick and
more substitute dick and
As I was driving back the car missed it up and it's all my cars are really really crappy, right? I buy
Well
There were three in the drive but one's been dead for for like
nine months and I've been wanting to play it's it's a Nissan Micra and
I like it because it's old but has got very low mileage because it used to belong to it belong to my late father-in-law who hardly used it
And I've got this
The tool that's one way to keep the mileage down, Jane
Well, it's on a drive. I've got this theory that
Each with each new year they add on more complicated shit to cast
Design to fail to make them more expensive to maintain unnecessary stuff
So you want an old car with low mileage if you're the older the better
so anyway, that's broken at the moment because the
the
The power steering is gone, but I'm thinking it's probably worth paying seven hundred quid
To get the power steering back just so that I've got this car. That's
You know, but anyway, I was driving by another crap of our crap cars
my daughter's crap car and I wound down the window to
Um
D miss the windows and it wouldn't go up again and it was on that particularly cold
I don't really remember last Friday. It was just unbelievably cold. There was a kind of a
Really bitter wind and there was rain and I checked on my phone. You know, what temperature does it feel like?
it felt like minus six and
so I was in this car freezing my my arse off and
I then had to get it home and
Tape up the windows when you can't because it's raining and it means it doesn't stick and anyway, it was horrible
The point was I needed this car to get to my hospital appointment this afternoon so
To deal with my finger
That I broke I broke my finger
on on a horse
Well, I was hunting
Obviously, I was hunting and I was
We'd we'd been going for about a half an hour and
I
Done a few jumps. I think but I was kind of
in the I was adrenaline in in the moment and
Well, well oiled with from my hip flask
And I suddenly became aware that my finger was really hurting in my glove
And I was thinking why why it really really hurts and I thought oh if I ignore it, it'll go away
And it didn't go away. It just got the pain was sometimes agonizing and I had to adjust my my
Your reins normally go through there and I had to adjust my reins
So they went through there and it sort of hold the brains at a funny angle
The problem was the horse. I was on
was a
an ex racehorse and
He hadn't got a bit. He doesn't like having a bit and I had no brakes
So I was pulling really hard at the at the reins to try and stop them over taking all the other horses
Which obviously he was doing because he was a racehorse every time I tried to tuck him behind another horse to slow him down
He'd just he'd find a way through it was it was it was really quite a scary experience
but it was also exciting and
The pain just got worse and I and I just sort of dosed it with with
With with dams and gin
and they stuck at it for a two more hours, but
After that somebody said to me because like they could see I was in pain and I was riding in a funny
You know, but I was holding the reins in a funny way
They said have you had a good day and I said yes, and she said
Don't you think you should quit work while you're ahead rather than carrying on with a broken finger and somebody else said
I've got some paracetamol if you want and I said you actually break it just holding on to the reins
Is that what you mean? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know how it happened. Maybe I hit the saddle. Maybe the horse is pulling so hard
Maybe I'd caught it on the next drop. I don't know. I didn't come off
I asked this James is because I'm getting horse riding on Saturday
With my children
Not fast I
Would say to you
I don't have any kind of accident because of my piano thing, which is my life chances of I've
Apparently it does happen
But but I think you'd have to happen doing something like being hunting under under extreme conditions
Not trotting around hyper on a racehorse. You're not gonna break your finger. Just holding some reins. No
Heavily on the Chinese zodiac James and apparently this isn't a good year for me
I don't I don't think it's even pot. I didn't think it was even possible. I mean, I'm very surprised that I managed to do it
I don't know what happened. Anyway, can I ask why you looked at your phone though to check the weather how the weather felt that really bothers me
No, I wanted to see what the temperature was
And you can't these days look at your weather app without discovering not only what the the
Temperature is minus the wind speed
But no, but what also is the temperature now now the what the temperature is also with the wind speed and
Yeah, that was all um, so but I agree it's silly. Um, so I
Had a hospital appointment to
To go in this afternoon to go and have it looked at
Well, I could tell you more about this if you're interested
I'm gonna tell you about it anyway cuz about
Yeah, so I
Thought well, I can't get a taxi because the hospital's miles away and that would cost me a lot
I'm gonna have to get a hire car
so I hired a car on on on
Saturday because I couldn't get it Jakes my wife's in the office. So I couldn't have I couldn't have got a lift
I couldn't have got a lift to the higher car base. So I had to hire it for you know three days rather than one
So I spent
124 pounds the cheapest I could I could spend hiring a hiring the smallest car
I could find except they upgraded me because they don't do small cars these days
anyway
This morning I get the post and I hope I think well
There's a letter from the NHS here, but it doesn't matter because I'm going to see the hospital
They're going to see them this afternoon and it said we are sorry
We've had to cancel your appointment this afternoon and it's next week and
So I spent 124 pounds on a hire car
Which I'm not going to use except all I'm gonna do I've run out of milk
I've run out of milk from my tea that I haven't had yet because I'm fasting this morning
And you can't have tea when you're fasting
I'm just having just shit like it's got
It's got no nutrition. No new milk no milk in it. So that doesn't count um and
So it's gonna be 124 pounds for a bottle of milk to put in my tea
Yeah, so that's my day
Turn from the garage. Don't you that's fun
It's weird. I broke my tail last September and it ruined my whole life and I didn't even realize at the time
I just thought it was a broken toe, but actually everything went to shit after that just something that tiny
Fine now. It's it's extraordinary. Isn't it how?
Kind of apparently inconsequential thing like like breaking your finger actually is a real pain
I mean
My life's james that changed the world
Do you think it is it's like it's like the butterfly the butterfly in the rain forest
that the changes that causes a hurricane in in I
Don't know
No, I'm on a completely different life path
Well, how did you have any theories on how you're stubbing your toe? What what why did it go to shit your life?
Well, firstly because I didn't I didn't um, I didn't realize so yeah
I just it was because I'm very very fit James not to you are your well-fits on you
We all know that whoa
No, I don't know. I'm physically as I'm a healthy person
Well, and it means that I don't really need much sleep and stuff and I can drive through stressful situations because I'm fit
physically fit healthy and
When I broke my toe, I couldn't do anything anymore
So I was still driving through what is what has been one of the more
So we delicately say stressful periods of my life, but without anything to offset my
My override and by Christmas, which is which is
Christmas is amazing with small children
But as everybody knows I'm going to a very acrimonious divorce and so it was a delicate balancing act
It's we're all in the same house and I everything sort of them
Well, I just fell apart and then
after and it was literally just this
Because I'd stopped balancing things out
and
Say now I've had to
completely
Give up everything. I basically went back to Bikram, which is this hot room yogi that I'm obsessed with you think is the devil's work
Devils normally I can do ours of it
And I went and I think anybody that has to even take a break for a second is weak and
Pathetic, and I'm very judgmental
Do you hear them? He spit at them in the car. I just I just
Think that they're sad and I went to this class and I didn't know James if I was going to faint vomit or shit myself
Had to lie down I couldn't I couldn't even speak and
Anyway, so since then I've everything's fine. I just got sick and I'm fine
but it's amazing because
Sex everything else that affects how you I think that the whole of life is it is an energy exchange and
When you're when your own energy is corrupted, it's it's disastrous in ways that you couldn't possibly anticipate
Yes, yes
I've definitely been feeling a lot worse in in in many different ways as a result of this kind of minor
Injury, I mean I've been very upset that I can't go hunting although. I suppose if I were really brave
I'd have just said ah sod it strap yourself up and kick on
and
It's definitely affected me
Mentally, which is which is and also I wanted to tell you about
that my
My sort of moment of personal revelation, not that it isn't obvious when I went to this
hospital to
have my finger looked at and I
Realized the degree to which
hospitals are
killing machines
posing as as sort of
lifesavers and and and I
Don't want to get at the people who are actually in the system because
They're they're often hard-working decent people. You know the woman who looked at my finger was
She she she cared and she and she did the best job she could it but I
I went to the hospital once and I walked through the room
It's like a sort of big hallway and on either side of the wall. There are people sitting there
getting their chemo
And they're they'll form with their loved ones who are sort of keeping them company and they're sort of trying to not to be bored
So I think they've got to have quite a long time having this stuff pumped into them
and
I was thinking
This this supposed therapy you're having is is nothing of the kind it was this is this is Rockefeller medicine
Which was designed as the part of sort of systematic slaughter process
To go with all the other methods that they've introduced to kill people are starting obviously with vaccines and and and so on and
We live in a country where supposedly the NHS is
Yeah, it's our NHS it's our national
But
You know it's that devilish anyway, just because it's so full of bureaucracy and
The moment you have that much admin. There is no humanity left in it
I've I'm got I'm partial to looking at these them Christie's catalogs
You know anyone that email for these auction houses not that I could ever afford any of these things
I just like I like Christie's catalogs
although of course the Christie's and Sotheby's are
Demonic, obviously, I mean they're all owned by well, I think probably at this point most things are but what I really
Is the I've been thinking a lot about this
I want to talk to you actually about the Urbora seating at St. Elf. We'll get to that in a second
I was looking at this Christie's catalog
Because what I really really like at these them collections of the discerning collector, which is basically all of the
You know all of the figurines that the children can't wait to cash in that they when their parents die
they're very rich parents and
But I really like these collections because they're so eclectic and because they're
They're defined by nothing other than someone's personal taste obviously we can accept that everything in these collections has value
but they
They're very peculiar
So what are they listed as?
So when they when someone rich dies instead of it being a proper catalog
It's you know, it's basically everything that the bereaved children are trying to cash in at high speed. Yes, okay
The collection of dot-dot-dot
Yes, and those are the things I like to look through because they're the things that people have specifically collected over time
that obviously half of the family hates but has to grudgingly respect because of its price tag and
But they they always have in this recent collection I was looking at they had a picture a painting of the quack doctor
And you see it constantly coming up through art. I'm not talking
I'm talking about all of the obscure artists and most writers
Gerta Dostoevsky
They they all understand that the doctor is is a often a quack playing on your
Hypercondria and your need for reassurance and your fear and your your fear of your own mortality and your own
Fluctuating energy you're really when you're ill you just need to get rid of something toxic
But obviously the most important thing to get rid of is bad thoughts and a doctor can give you loads of those
But when they were outside a system when they just used to wander from house to house
Everybody could see what they were sometimes they were good sometimes they were bad
But now that they're just in a huge machine
They they have no responsibility. They have no
There's no way of them
There's there's no community inside the hospital that anyone outside the hospital could recognize
Which means that there's no responsibility to the patient and there's no repercussions
It's it's not it's completely and not it's monstrous. It's completely anonymous for reasons
I can't be bothered to go into I was in Great Oldman Street Hospital for my completely healthy children
which is ironically stressful and
And my son accidentally pulled down these pride flags
Yeah, the receptionist she raced out to restore our sexual liberation trying to carry all of these
Flags up again and she she couldn't do it
But it was because the the flags went one corner of the children's ward to the other corner and then across again
And I was looking at it thinking how could why are they here in the children's ward?
Is it that a genuine apparent who whose child is actually sick who's under that terrible stress is
Relieved that someone somewhere is sniffing a load of poppers having a wild time at a rave that weekend
I just I can't understand the logic of them being there. I
Can't I don't understand it
but also the whole system now is that you can the child's body has become a battlefield of ideas and
the state and the system itself is
Quite happy to assume illness instead of health and a healthy child
because it generates money and
It's it's a similar thing is once you have this much bureaucracy and once you have this much cash
even ignoring all the actual pharmaceuticals even even if it was once you have that once you have that kind of industry
you have to supply something to it and
What we're supplying to it is that as our children
We've long ago abandoned our elderly to it
We've long ago severed all ties of responsibility to other family members and
Given them all to the machine and now we're putting our children into it because there's nothing else to put into it
It's the only thing now that will keep it standing people imagine that the NHS needs more money to keep going
But it doesn't what it needs is more patience
What it needs is is more human sacrifice and the only
People that we have left to give is out as our children and a similar thing is happening
I think with AI Dominic Frisbee is an excellent example of this because he's so
Intelligent and talented, but also pragmatic
So he uses AI he's just written an article on it about how he's quite happy to use it for certain things
To generate PR for himself. It's doing the things he wouldn't like to write
To if he needs to deal with admin or some sort of I think he even said personal feedback
Now I think that AI is
The devil incarnate. I think it's the if the final move to
relinquish us of
Creativity which is our attachment to God I think but yeah, what people imagine and Dominic is one of them
That it's just a question of how quickly it advances and whether it can do certain things like have a sense of humor
But AI is not to do with how quickly the machine advances. It's to do with how quickly we devolve
So it's not to do the machine can already do at most things
I think but we haven't become stupid enough to
To think that that has total value yet
We are still at a point when we appreciate an original painting in situ
We appreciate stained glass in situ
We appreciate something with its attachment to the ritual itself of its creation and its place and in
Context and AI is is
Severing that entirely is the sort of final endpoint of art in the mechanic age mechanical reproduction, you know
It's and I don't think anybody should use it at all
I don't think that they shouldn't use it because it's going to get better and replace us
I don't think that they should use it because it's making them simple-minded
It's it's making them stupid and it's removing their taste
So there will be no more eclectic collections. They will just be
That woman Marie Kundo and an empty room with a laptop in it like that awful advert
It will it will all be over and it won't be because the machine advanced
It will be because we became really thick and we did it voluntarily for want of attention
Um, that's depressing but true I think all you say I don't I don't use it
Good
Well for that for yeah, I mean, I think I think instinctively I've grasped that what you say is is
True that I
I
Suspect
Not being bitchy
But I suspect that that somebody that we know
Uses AI for his his articles. I don't I
The sort of people who do use a I for their articles. I think already it's a kind of deal breaker
Because you're driving at James
You don't know what I'm driving at no, is it important for me to stay here for the record that I don't think you're an MI5 agent
You would provide your VIP guests with one free slice of pizza at your events not our whole pizza
I think that would be suspicious, but I think that they'd get a
Slice of pizza with that bell ringing if you were an MI5 agent I
think I
Think um
That if I were if wait, I mean I'm not running it out if I am in my five or am I six if you are
That's exciting for me because you'll be
Exciting for you because it means you you've you've you're talking to an MI5 agent, which is which is interesting
But for me, it's exciting because it means I'm really really really good at my job
Guess I don't think many people have suspected. I mean apart from mad mad people on
Substance about this. There's a sort of I think about 10 people think that and and everyone else has been fooled
Which is which I think is a tribute to my
my talents of deception and
It doesn't matter
No
Well, it doesn't matter to me because I'm not sleeping with you
So I wouldn't feel personally let down, but also I am I'm not sure it would really matter
I think everybody's too muddled now. So I've really been thinking about this a lot
I'm sure I've bored you with it before that the best comedian I've ever seen in real life
Had such terrific charisma. It's almost impossible to describe unless you see it
It's it's a it's an energy that's
Incalculable and can't be bottled and years later
I saw them on television doing exactly the same jokes and it was crap
And it was crap because the television itself gives people charisma
Which is how they're able to promote absolute idiots who will say exactly what they're told to say and will
Regurgitate whatever writing they're given and who are entirely dependent on the
System because they don't exist without it. They don't even exist in a room
They only exist through the the medium of the technology
But how does it curious to me charisma?
Well, just by virtue of being on it
people that is the charisma so
The man that had charisma in real life when he was on television
He was indistinguishable from the other people you couldn't tell that he was the one that had charisma
All you could see was that all of these people went out did their thing the lights flashed the audience cheered I
Could tell the difference because I'd seen them all live
One of these men was a genius and what and the rest words but on the television. They were all the same
They were all democratized in that way what distinguished them was that they were on the screen
It wasn't what they were saying. It wasn't what they were doing
It it wasn't to do with anything at all. It was just bells and whistles and
Flashing at the bless you and and looking at the audience and and that's not real either by the way. That's all fake
but
So in the last decade or so
Every bit there used to be this huge world on the periphery, which is where I wanted to be I wanted to be on the edge
I wanted to be in the basement with depressed people telling jokes to fools and
Em
But that whole outside everything the burlesque
The the freak that even the circus is now a run on QR codes and and tokens and cards
Everything has been brought into the center and I used to think that the center had been pushed to the periphery
but I don't think that now I think that everything is in a muddle and
it's supposed to be in a muddle and
the people like us that
Imagine we can see where the world's going and we don't like its direction
We are always predicting what will happen to the future this digital prison this digital ID
But I actually think that this is the interesting moment for the powers that be this is the interesting moment where you're catching
The residuum of freedom because at this point we're still free
To an extent or as much as we were to make our own creative choices to
Meet who we wish to meet to define our own tastes to collect our own stuff
The only reason we're following we I never had to do lockdown. I didn't take any injection
The reason that we imagine we're being coerced or push this way or that is because we're really too lazy to say no
But this is the moment that it's interesting once everybody is captured
That's just when the people in power
They won't have anyone left to be interested in apart from each other and they'll kill themselves
Just like it was after the French Revolution when they all chopped each other's heads off
because
This is this is the moment in other words
before we're all dead in our souls
That there is anything for anybody to do there is there is still a moment now for us to be corraled into this
This circle which means that there's a huge possibility for all of the interesting people to step outside it and
That's another thing that's been bothering me because it's a bit like gentrification
You always hear that you know rich people move to a certain shabby area and then suddenly everyone wants to live there like
Hackney, but it's not really true
It's that certain interesting people move to certain spots, and they're the ones that you hear about
You don't hear about all the people that that move somewhere and it failed you just hear about these teeny tiny spots that were basically
defined by a few people with good taste and
inconspicuously moving there and
I think that because
charisma is being removed from the public and
People don't like it in their real life anymore because they're not paying attention to it
they are paying attention to
their telephones or to their
To their idea of what might be popular and this relentless obsession with the with the face and
Modifying it from a very young age
So people can't even really see what they're supposed to look like anymore
They don't know what they don't know what they're supposed to look like, but I think what's actually happening is that
It there's going to be a space on the outside for someone with charisma and
That will be when we have
Cult worship and it won't be the sort of worship of someone like Elon Musk
Who's just a fantasy of someone that has loads of money can spend all of their time shit-posting on Twitter. It will be
Someone with genuine charisma will be scooped up and you'll have you'll start having cults of the personality again
And I'm I
Don't think anyone should join those. I think it's gonna be a really awesome
I was gonna ask you where you stood on
Cults of the personality because I was gonna say well, Tonya. Should I be starting one? Should I be?
I think they're very dangerous and I think that we've never been ready for one and
And I don't think it's going to be an obvious one
So it's quite clear at the moment that these different characters are being
Tested, I don't know if you saw the Air and Benjamin skit where he talks about Zulander
Basically trialing the idea of Biden and Trump is an excellent an excellent ten minutes
They're very insightful ten minutes, but the thing about all of these characters
Like Trump
Yeah, I'll find it he said that they screen test these things where there's screen testing movies
What they're actually doing is screen testing
The kind of characters that people would find appealing in political life
And they get all of the feedback and then they modify them and then they present them to the public
But the the things about characters like Elon Musk and Trump to anybody with any
residual sense of discernment is that they're obviously characters and there's there's nothing there to
Grieve them
They can't be wounded because they're not real
But I think that the when the cult of the personality arises again
It will be from a from a person that is not
Given to us from the mainstream it will look like they're coming from the outside and they probably will in as much as
That will be how the most authentic cult can be formed and
All of these other ideas, you know these silly figures like Tommy Robinson or you know, whatever
They are
They're just different ways of testing how much sincerity you need
To catch the public's imagination, but I think that though the ones to worry about are going to be
the people that genuinely have
Charisma and it's hard to imagine that there are any of those left
but there will be a few and
It's important not to worship them because it's going to be a terrible shock. I think to people that have become completely
Ineared to charisma and are completely conformist and think that charisma is fame or recognition
Those people aren't going to be prepared for charisma. They're going to you
fall to their knees before it
Because it's an overwhelming force
So your your charismatic man or woman is going to come from
So-called a way a man is going to come from awake circles
Um, I'm not sure I don't know. It's not for me to prophecy. I I just think this
I can hear horses in the background. Yeah, I was just thinking at myself
Normally if you hear a horse around here, it's police
When I lived in Camden you'd hear them all clippity cloppity down there down the high street past all of the painted houses
Because for me, it's that when I hear clippy cloppy. It means it's the hunt going by and I was rushed out to see them
And see who's out that day
Do you still hunt? Is it that?
What kind of hunting is it? Is it that um scent hunting or is it Fox hunting or you're not allowed to tell me online in case you
Yeah, yeah exactly, but I mean it's like it's quite exciting and you jump over things and and and
Have good adventures
Yeah, I've been thinking
The man downstairs is calling me home. Okay
Hello, yeah
Okay
All right
Global warming is a massive calm. There was no evidence whatsoever
That man-made climate change is a problem that is going to kill us that we need to amend our lifestyle
In order to deal with it. It's a non-existent problem
But how do you explain this stuff to your normie friends? Well?
I've just brought out the revised edition to my 2012 classic book
Watermelons which captures the story of how
some really nasty people
Decided to invent the global warming scare in order to fleece you to take away your freedoms to take away your land
It's a shocking story. I wrote it as I say in there while 2011 actually
if the first edition came out and
It's a snapshot of a particular era the era when the people behind the China climate change scan
Got caught red-handed
Tinkering with the data
Torturing till it screamed in a scandal that I helped christen
Climategate so I give you the background to to the skull jugglery that went on in in these seats of learning where these supposed
Experts were reforming us. We've got to act now. I
Rumbled there's their scan. I then asked the question. Okay, if it is a scan
Who's doing this and and why it's a good story?
I I've kept the the original book pretty much as is but I've written two
New chapters one at the beginning and one at the end
Explaining how it's even worse than we thought. I think it's a good. I think it still stands up
I think it's it's a good read. I obviously I'm biased, but I'd recommend it
You can buy it from James Delling poll dot co.uk
Forward slash shop. You're probably fine. I just go to my website and look for it James Delling poll dot co.uk
And I hope it helps keep you informed and gives you the material you need to
Bring around all those people who are still persuaded that
It's a disaster. We must amend our ways and appease the gods appease mother God. No, we don't it's a scam
Here I am
Hello, I had to deal. I had to deal with a tradesman and I just I had to answer questions
and and and
Listen to what he said. It's otherwise what would happen is the wife would get back and say how did blah blah blah blah blah go?
And I said, oh, yeah, so he came and blah blah blah and did he do the so-and-so and did it and what about this and I go
So I have to pretend like
Things to
Just toss them
Yeah, admin is really boring, but it needs to be done. Um, oh, I've been reading Alan Watts, actually
Yes
We'd be having a mad lover for
Well, it's quite interesting actually I spent
my children are in Ireland for the weekend and
with their father and
I really don't like it
But actually I've had an amazing time
I've been playing music and reading for about 12 to 14 hours a day, but um, I've been designing these
Well adapting
simple children's games to see how you could teach them about music and I think I'm gonna have these prototypes made in
March, I've had a really good time making stuff. That's not the point. The point is I was reading Alan Watts and
I was reading John Garnier who wrote The Worship of the Dead at the same time
So John Garnier is a Christian who this book is on sin
And Alan Watts is on Zen and
Beat or square Zen they have very different perspectives. Yeah, I really like Alan Watts, but obviously
You either believe in God or you don't do
Well, that's it. He obviously doesn't believe in God
He believes in the the universe, but he doesn't believe in the hierarchy and I'm I'm fascinated in this at the moment because
for
One person they'd say there is no suffering and to the other person they'd say suffering brings you closer to God
But I have to be honest James and I was reading the book on sin
I was filled with existential dread and every time I turned to Alan Watts
I felt much calmer and I I don't think either of them are necessarily wrong
um
And then I started reading Dostoevsky and and he's just funny
Well, surely
If you're if you're a Christian, I mean, it's all very well saying. Oh, he believes in the universe. Well, what what what universe?
So he doesn't believe in the hierarchy
So, okay. Well, what does he believe?
A charismatic question doesn't believe in the hierarchy either. I was talking to this about um, allister about this
I don't believe in their uh charismatic christianity
But by I've just got to a point
I said this to you before that I went back in time and started reading people from 150 years ago and their arguments about our purpose for being here
And why and even John Garnier
So my favorite um christian writer is philip sharrard
um, but then
And I love his christianity and eros, but then I read Joseph de Maistre and his
Considering asked once you read divorce and I just think well they are there are two people with ostensibly similar ideas that couldn't be further removed from each other
so
uh philip sharrard certainly believes in the purpose of a monk or the purpose of asceticism
And John Garnier would say that the cruelest people
Alive would be the ascetic or the catholic priest that hasn't
um
Doesn't have the familiarity of day to day love and is therefore hardened of heart
So it's all very well saying hey, you can't believe in zen man and believe in god
well, you could put
three christians in the same room and if they were
Informed enough of their own tradition
They they couldn't possibly be compatible
And I think that that's fine. I think that these differences are
vital
If we're going to have any kind of character left at all and we're not just a big
Swamp of shit that can be
Harvested
Harvested by
Evil people. I think all of our energy is being harvested and the way to keep it for ourselves and share it amongst ourselves
Is to be different to each other
And I really am interested in this energy feeding. I think that we um, we feed off our children
Hopefully we give to them and it's part of a flow
but I think that
If if god is the divine flow, some people have access to it probably because they're pure
And other people have access to the people that have access to it
But all children are pure so all children have access to the divine flow and I think consciously or unconsciously
We feed on our children's energy
When we don't have any of our own
And I'm not sure that the um
Energy we think we're getting from other things is necessarily good and I think that Alan Watts
Absolutely had access to good energy and that that
That has something to say for itself
Um irrespective of my philosophy or philosophy
So what do you think the
The deal with god is because I don't know the cat in
Why do you want to come in here? I don't know. Um, well my thought is is in here
Sunbathing
Yeah, because he's out of hibernations
I can't put him back into the garden to sit because it's not quite warm enough
But he's just sunbathing in the sitting room looking rather cross
But I won't put him outside
This cat's looking entitled
um, yeah
We were talking about um
Dick
becoming an orthobro and
How is he freeing him up for more time to paint because he doesn't have to think anymore
It's just foreign enough
and just what looks enough
I mean
Orthodox is just incredibly attractive, especially when you've seen it in in rusher and you've heard the singing and stuff and and you
The lives of the saints and and all that the soma and and the the noetic prayer and I love it
but
Even though it's really hard
in in that you have to have
every other days of
some kind of fasting day and and and you have to stand up and and long long services and long long rituals and formally
um
But it's kind of laid out for you, isn't it? It's that you know what the rules are and that's very
Comforting
but also
For freeing I suppose. Yeah
But you said something about yeah, but you James
And I tell you haven't really got that consolation. We're we're we're spending our whole time wrestling
Yes, well because I
Well, there's there's two things really firstly
I got I got finally made it to the point
So I said I said to you that I've been reading from these people hundreds of years ago
So that I could think about why I'm here and what I'm here for but without the context of
The the background noise of of my current
You know the current period all important things are as current today as they were
200 or 300 or 400 or a thousand years ago
Everything good in man is the same and all of our important questions are the same questions
But you can forget that
By the distractions of contemporary life
But it's finally happened that I've got to a point where people aren't just disagreeing. They
I haven't read it. I don't know if you're familiar with an imitation of christ. It's a book by a famous
catholic
Um
It's apparently a hugely important book
Inimitated by thomas the campus
So
So I was reading an orthodox priest
and
He describes this book as a clear example of um
um
devil possession
And
The very things that are the people consider the most holy of holies
Um, this orthodox priest who I also admire hugely
considers demonic
um
and
There's a problem right there. You've nailed it. Tony. This is this is exactly what I
wrestle with every day that I see people from different areas of the
You can't use the word denominations because catholics don't consider themselves a denomination or some such nonsense
but
you think
You're all good people and and and you're all a lot of you are well read and clever and yet
you're
You can't agree on stuff. You can't agree on on really basic stuff. You're absolutely right. It is a problem
And there's no authority you can go to
But I don't think that that's a problem
I think that the problem is
actually defined by this orthodox priest who
He's now this is interesting
I mean god, um, this is too. This is too. Um complicated to go into here
Suffice it to say from this from the perspective of this particular orthodox priest. He sees
the
um, the attack if you like as
hinduism
Invading western philosophy
about a hundred years ago
so he sees
that the
And some of my favorite christian writers are really, um
Have reached a point where they see the parallels in hinduism and christianity and they've written really interesting stuff on it
Which is why this surprised me and intrigued me
so
he says that um, this idea that you worship the evil one as well as the good
And that all of these different religious denominations are together the mohammedan and the um christian
and the hindu
And the seek are all praying together in one great space to to worship one thing and putting all of their
Domination or differences aside or even their actual
The whole belief systems aside to pray together
He says that this is
The the ground for the antichrist
Now irrespective what you feel about the antichrist. I I don't think it is correct for
everybody
um
To be
Worshiping together and I know that that might be
um
I think it I think you're summoning a different thing
When you throw very disparate people into the same room
Praying for different things at the same time
Under the illusion that by praying for nothing specific
That that's therefore okay
I think if you're praying you need to have a very clear idea of who you are praying to and why
And I don't think you should strip yourself down
Of your own idea of goodness and god in order to commune in that way with lots of people at once
Unless you're at a britney spears concert, which I also think is awful. So that kind of um
uh
Indiscriminate worship I think is very dangerous
Well totally
But that's I mean we've been seeing that ecumenicism
Which which which the orthodox seem to be particularly um
Worried about they think it's a that and I I quite I respect their
Their extreme reluctance to engage in ecumenical activity. We're all yeah
We're all brothers under the skin. We all believe
It's what I also think that I I think I've mentioned this to you before is that when you start learning music like I have
Which I can't stop hanging on about because I'm so obsessed
I'm going to see my friend clay and his recital this afternoon. He's playing um for coffee ever
I mean, these people are so clever. Anyway, um
But if you start learning music, for example, you're saved by the fact that you're no good
So this is why there was a huge fashion for deejaying and electronic music because people that suddenly like music
It could imagine that they were good at it when they weren't at all
But if you actually like real music, you're there's no possibility of you becoming um proud because
at every turn you're
Faced with failure and the only way even as you improve you just really learn to listen more and then you realize how dreadful you are
Whereas when you turn to god as I did or you did or allister did or so many people did in recent years
there is no
system of steps
That stops you tripping over yourself and your haste to be more holy than your neighbor
and
because we have been
um trained to think that experiences big experiences
Are more significant than small ones
there's a great temptation
to
imagine that
You're chosen in some way and I believe that
Everybody the grace is available if you ask for a grace
And I believe that everybody is special and everybody is sacred and I think that everybody does have access to
religious experiences and insight
But that to find the insight you probably need to shut up about the experiences until you understand them
And when you understand them you definitely need to be quiet about them because you would realize at that point
That they're not to share or brag about
But because there isn't a system of of steps
for the for the newbie if you like
um
It's quite easy for them to become dogmatic or
Or cushioned by
The idea that they found the place now and they don't have to think anymore
And it's interesting
Alistair did this actually he shared um
An ai clip which i'm trying to write about I haven't managed to make it funny yet because it's so serious
But he shared this thing about how god saves his his people because he I think he believes in the rapture
I have a different idea of the rapture. Anyway, he shares this this um
The teaching of lots, you know that lot is god saves his people
So lot is is taken out of Sodom and Gomorrah by these angels, but with the with this um
With the bible quotes
He shared the clip and the clip is of these two
Angels hustling lot out of Sodom and Gomorrah like a couple of bodyguards hustling a celeb out of a nightclub
And it's all animated these beleaguered angels with their grubby feathers and hilariously
Lot actually turns back. He turns back
in this clip
Where all the fireballs are going off in the background
and
I try to explain to Alistair that this firstly is just a threat, isn't it?
It's just inviting people to change the fear of the temporal to the fear of the eternal
But really morality itself true morality comes beyond fear of rewards and punishments. I do believe that
I think that when you
Everything I've ever done that's good in my life has been because of love and every mistake
I've ever made in my life has been because of fear, but anything genuine. I have done is when I have been
Independent of feeling frightened and I've accepted
The consequences of my actions and I think that you can change anything bad into something good
If you are honest about it, and I think you can make anything beautiful ugly by feeling bad about it
And I think that this whole idea that you should just be scared of something
And that's how you should
comport yourself is wrong, but the the actual clip is so naff
and
I the the point is that if God created everything from
Nothing and we are supposed to be creative then we supposed to be able to create something from nothing
and in that moment of creation understand and connect with God
then
feeding everything into grok whatever stupid machine it is
and having your ideas vomited back to you and imagining that that's some kind of creative
Accomplishment is the end of you is is literally the end of your humanity
But also I was wondering why this is so shit this clip was so shit
And I think it's because that was supposed to make it look more holy
The fact that it was so bad
Was supposed to separate it from all of the good really current stuff that is secular
or
Maybe satan made it
To make it
Sorry, but he did make it, but I'm saying why is the actual clip rubbish and I think it's to make
I think it's to make the
to make
To still separate this religious AI from white
From
secular AI
Yeah, so secular person they look at the religious AI and they think god
That's so crap religious people are so naive and backwards
But the religious person looks at that rubbish a bit like someone looking at an icon and not understanding it and just thinking that it's kitsch
And they they think it makes it authentic
They think that there's something to be taught there that it's real because it's naff
But there's nothing there
There's there's nothing in it
um
I don't think that there's any answer apart from to turn it all off
I saw someone I really admire
um say that if you didn't read the epstein files, it was because you were weak
and cowardly
and
On the same day. I saw me
There wasn't you darling. Um, I would be more directive. It was you
I say, why did he say that rubbish james? Um
You are my five stooge, but I help it
It's my it's a job
I get
I get to kill people
Yeah, um
No, anyway, so I don't I also saw my friend for lunch and he said that years ago
His friend in france had said that the the sakeness was doing this terrible stuff
And I said, I don't want to hear it pool
I don't I don't want to hear it. Don't tell me but he couldn't help it
And he kept giving me details. He said always said that they did this
I'm not going to say any of it. He said that they did this and he said that they I said, I don't want to hear it
I'm not listening. Don't tell me but he couldn't he had to unload himself
and
I think that
A bit like um gaza
They didn't destroy gaza in a second because by doing it really slowly for months and months and months
They've been able to
Persuade millions of people to wish death on other people
They've persuaded millions of people to justify murder in their minds. They've filled people with rage and
Every kind of terrible emotion
um, and similarly, why do you need?
Millions of people to be thinking about despicable things being done to children
It is so
unholy and I think it
Makes you ill
So it's not that I don't think that these people will all destroy themselves
And it's not that I don't think you should protect those around you
But this idea that you're somehow benefiting yourself or mankind by dwelling on horrors
I saw it years ago in a green room. These guys. They actually watched horror movies
And they were all talking about it and then one of them said he didn't understand why he was watching stuff
That was as horrific as the stuff that he was watching
He was genuinely confused for a moment that he was watching stuff that was so utterly corrupting
He didn't know why he was doing it or what he was doing
And I I know I bang the same drum all the time, but I think that if anything
It's more dangerous for people who used to be thinking oh, who's going out with who?
You know, who's is Jennifer Aniston in love with Brad Pitt? Or is he sleeping with Angelina Jolie?
I think it's more unhealthy to think who's fiddling with who or who's sucking who's you know, whatever
I'd eating I just think it's so
Bad for you that if you are I know that you're on a mission to reveal these things, but that means you personally
Are going to have to be so much better armed physically and psychologically and spiritually than anybody else
Um, I don't know how you do it. I think you'll have to
You haven't we must have to spend 12 hours crying
Because I've been I've been wondering about this
I've been looking
um
at the
The epstein revelations that are being I don't hear them
No, no, no world. I'll give you the lightly edited version. I mean
What I mean is that all edited. It's all edited. You're you've also had the edited version
So nobody the all of the people that think that they've um
Not had all of the detail yet that there's still more to come and everybody's obsessed with it
Even if I my everybody's read it
I saw an old man at the cafe with his dog
How I sometimes see with my children he wanted to talk to me about it
My mother wants to talk to me about it
Everyone's built up their own story about whether this means we control
Hey, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna traumatize you. I'm just gonna talk about
generalities here
so
If there is a lesson
That the the normie public let's call them that the norm is
ought to be
learning
from the epstein
data leak whatever
is that
all your
All the all the the authorities that you've trusted to
You you've sort of contracted out your life to these people that politicians to to make make laws and and
judges to
administered justice and
Actors to entertain you and businessmen to
to I suppose
Bring the fruits of the capitalist system to your to your home and and so on all these people
Don't just have feet of clay. They are absolutely rotten to the core. They're polluting with magnets
They are absolutely
Disgusting they do things that you could never imagine were possible outside horror movies and possibly not even in a horror
Move would you expect such things?
and and it's all come out
and
they they are
Arrogant and trustworthy. They do terrible things to to the the most vulnerable people i.e. children
et cetera et cetera
now
You would think
at this point
That people with this new information. They would be going well
We better do something about this. It's going to have to be
We're going to have to completely rethink the way the world is run because the guys who are running to the moment
I now realize they exist. It's not a conspiracy theory. This is actually real. This is this is real. I could see the evidence now. It's clear
um
We've got to do something about it. We cannot play their games anymore. We need to we need to live
Godly lives. We need to we need to restore
The message of the bible I suppose
I mean they might not they might all become Christian
But they might at least understand that the world is completely fallen and something needs to be done
but
None of this has happened at all
Of course it can't possibly happen James because at all the point the point of the
Revelations just like the point of the revelations about the covid vaccines or taking certain of the medications off the market
Or putting some back in the purpose of these things is to make it look as if the system itself is self-correcting
And the worst things are the further away people wish to delegate
I I know I bang on
always about the same things, but
the way to fix things is to pick up the rubbish in your own streets and
though the more corrupt the world looks and the more horrific these people are
The more desperate people are to delegate all of their own personal responsibility to agencies that are even further afield
and it's a bit like this this um
I know I've I've got the same obsessions when I managed to write coherently about them
Then I'll be able to let them go
But this idea of non-violence that I believe is the the central teaching of christian theology people cannot accept
that I don't believe in violence and they always
Bring up children. You wouldn't be violent to protect your children
This is an absurd argument
Because I'm not suggesting when I say that violence is wrong that I wouldn't behave badly in a situation
But I think it's it's fascinating that people can't even accept in principle
That they should be not they should not be violent and I
The the fact that we always reach to the children and think only oh, well, I'd have to be violent to protect a child
Well, firstly, it wouldn't work. It wouldn't work if I actually had to be violent to protect my child
it how in what conditions could it be that I
I say I saved them in that way
I might be able to save my child by blocking them from a car that was approaching or jumping in front of them
if someone shot them with a gun or clinging onto them if someone tried to scoop them away
But I violence in the way that people imagine it and fantasize in their heads
Isn't a way that you could protect your child necessarily
And I think that the greater the violence in society the more cowardly people become
They they because really what they're saying is that their entire moral picture
Is only in existence because it's backed by force
And I think that's why
We've become so utterly weak
We actually don't have any force in in this country really you're not even allowed to fox hunt openly
We're unless you have a license to go and cull some deer at the correct number or kill some badgers that there isn't really any way to
to unleash your
your um
Is it forget letting go of your violent tendencies?
There's not even any way to really hone them in that way
You know you used to have two people that would fight and
And they would represent their entire nation
I have I've I can't remember where it was. You know this idea that you have two
Yes
But the
The whole our whole system now everything that we believe in every war that's fought
Everything is
We know our own capacity for for violence
And we're we're living under the threat constantly of war of the third world war the cold war or the horror of the second world war
and
people
cannot even
Finish the sentence in their own head that they should reject violence without thinking but then I'll be killed
Because really what they're thinking is the state is the only person that can protect me from all of these evil things
That I'm so scared of
But the state is the monster
The state is
And I I think until people can
People cannot see the state as the monster unless they can relinquish their attachment to the fact that they need that's that monster's force to protect them
They don't need that monster's force
Does that mean you're
You're you're a kind of Tolstoyan
Christian. Yes, you know this. Yeah
Yeah, so
He really doesn't believe in any anything about god there Tolstoy. Well, do you not find that a problem?
Um, well, I'm not talking about whether or not he believes in god
I'm talking about him rejecting violence and he's he's correct
But but just just very briefly
I find it a problem that he doesn't he doesn't seem to believe in god. Um
I think that he does believe in god, but there are there are problems with um
There are problems with our understanding of god and they come to dualism, I think and they come to force so
You're supposed to come to god if you just solve my gold problems are you not you're not you're not you're not you're just making
This is this is going to solve my problems
You're supposed to come to god of your own free will
That's all so
Because people panic about this all the time people people not god. I'm confident that god's relaxed about it
People um that believe in god want to hurry everyone else's journey along
They they're impatient. They want everybody to
To be saved tomorrow
And they are aware on some subliminal level that we are all connected and we are all one and if
In the same way that if everybody is doing something terrible it affects you it affects your children
It affects your mood it affects everything
um, so people are in a hurry
to force people
um
To believe in god
They're god
But i'm not i don't believe that you can force people and i don't and i don't believe there is any morad
In in doing so what i i i say i okay, so i might get that vibe from
say
evangelical christians i suppose it's it's the clues in the name
but
I mean i like i like the idea of people
all
Coming to god and discovering you know and and and experiencing the kind of things that that we do
But i'm not i'm not sort of going out there saying yeah
Come on come on god now more
Do you do you think of my own characteristic then in that case
Do you you think there's this faction out there that?
No, I just I just think this it's not um
I don't think that you have a god problem james. I just think that
Yeah, you have to suffer now
For knowing i do have a good problem because because every day i'm i'm i'm wrestling with my conscience and and wrestling with all these complicated thoughts which would
I I think it'd be much easier if if i had someone that could solve it for me if i could sort of contract what my
My religious you do have something that will solve it for you god
Yeah, me
god
Yes, I just have to help
Yes, I well, I do get that I
I'm I'm very suspicious of people who say that one shouldn't be doing this
They they seem to think that that that this is sort of borderline
Gnostic that that one shouldn't have a sort of conversation with ones
Well with god
Yeah, why are you joking why I don't understand? Well, I don't know. I think there are I think there were certain
strands in christianity which would which would have it that you should
But there are strands in christianity that you think that think you should be ashamed of love or that you shouldn't
You know be in touch with your body or your
Well, this is the problem. This is my problem with war
Every time I I'm sorry. I I've got a vent
like
I
really can't get around this thing
that
I'm on my third reading of the and I've grown up as well
I'm on my third reading of the new testament because you can get through quicker than the old testament
So the cycle is different
and
I read the gospels and I think great
Great jesus and and and you get all these stories and every time you read the gospels you get new stuff because there's lots of stuff that
is quite complicated and and you
It's interesting and and it's always
Sad at the end when he gets going he goes to get his preach in Jerusalem
And you know he's going to die and then it gets better because he rises and and all that
And then you get to the end of john
And you think oh no, I've got to read
Romans
I've got to read no actually you got axe axe is axe is quite fun
but then you get to the epistles and
You get some really really good stuff
Like Ephesians 6, you know put on the whole armor of god or whatever and the principalities and powers and
But the stuff you've got to wade through
and you're told
that
by a lot of questions that
All scripture is equal. It's all it's all inspired so so so whether it's a kind of weird bit of Leviticus or whether it's
a really annoying bit of Paul
It's as good as the Sermon and the Mount
And you're thinking
I don't buy this. I really do
It's not possible and I'm not supposed to see it in my humble opinion
There are too many stumbling blocks and paradoxes for you to be able to accept that
Yeah, because you're not supposed to
If you wish to think you're not supposed to but carry on so yes
well, so
I don't enjoy reading paul and I kind of think why he's he's well
I really don't like the way he's
He's so such a kind of killjoy
and you kind of think well
Yeah, I get it paul that you you believe in celibacy and stuff but
But what about
So I I think that you have amazing ascetics
and
But I believe that the body is
Um sacramental and I believe that
Union is is sacred and I think that you can let war from
genuinely loving somebody
then from anything else
in life
and I
Change what I believe to be true
And I consider
To be a lesson from god by the way. I I I don't um, come on. Yeah, I'm
I'm talking with you
But whenever I get whenever I have a go at paul I get rebuked for it by by by certain
Christians on my telegram group, you know, and I think it well
How do you know who made this rule that paul is
Is the equal of jesus
The equal of the prophets. Okay. He did some really interesting stuff. He was great at getting out of prison
He did some really cool stuff. He was martyred. I I respect that
But it doesn't mean that I have to kind of
Even though when I when I did
venerate the relics
in the reliquary
A bit of paul was in there and that's when I got transported
In the in the in the russian cathedral when I had my my tear a gift from god
When I was transported, that was that was but I don't know whether it was paul
paul's bones or somebody else's because there was also a bit of kind of stones from golgoth
And there were some russian saints and stuff in the same relic. It was a kind of super
Reliquary with with all sorts of yes
I think you learn things that you need to know at different points in your life
And that sometimes the things you fear most
you have to
um
They will come to you so that you work through them and and you realize that you didn't have to fear those things either I
I I so I
Weird thing happened that you've made me think of for this paul thing and this is um
A secular version of the same thing. So my favorites my favorite story that I've read
I don't normally refiction
As we all know, but I I'm obsessed with the story father sergius followed by toll story
And I was going to send it to my friend's father
who
In the same vein as we were talking about stories told me
a story that was
a comedy story
I don't know how to do this without spoiling both stories. What do I do james? I'm stuck
I don't I I
I do not want to spoiler just as you don't want to hear the epstein details
I do not want to spoiler on father sergius given. It's your favorite story
so well, but
So there was a right
Basically, if I had sent father sergius to this
man after he told me this funny story that was completely unrelated but had a similar
Climax but for a totally different purpose
He would never be able to read my serious story without
thinking of his funny story and laughing and I would never be able to listen to his funny story without thinking of my serious story and crying
And I have been changed forever by the order in which I've heard those two stories and so has he
And sometimes it's just the way it happens in life
You have your stories in one order and somebody else has the same stories in a different order
And it is therefore impossible for you to ever reconcile your worldviews because you don't you haven't
Had the same experience and that's okay
That's okay
And it's not possible
It's just not true
that um
And I told story definitely back to your pool pool thing told story definitely is conflicted by sex
He killed people told story when he was a soldier and in his confessions
Which is the most extraordinary book and I highly recommend it to everybody
He realizes
um
That everything that he was praised and rewarded for is actually despicable and grotesque
But he never manages to reconcile himself to some elements of the christian teaching to which he turned so dramatically
He never reconciled himself to sex
That's why I know of his stories that they just have to kill each other or kill themselves
And he he never reconciled himself to actual faith
In anything non materialistic
And he never fully relinquished science
um, which is just a different manifestation of ego in in uh
In flashier clothing
um
So I don't think it matters if you can't reconcile yourself to certain things yet james are not perfect
You're just a guy on a journey, aren't you?
Yes, I am and it's get actually you're very good
corrective to my dogmatism tanya because
Uh, I had made this distinction between good alan watt and bad alan watts because alan watts is part of the new age deception blah blah blah
but
I think you're right. You you've you've you've
Solved this problem where I have
Well, I think a lot of christians have which is okay
So we think we've we've chosen the way and and it's the only way because it's god and you know
All the other gods are kind of fake
But at the same time
We all know people in the world
Who are not christians
Who are very very good people better than people than us and we also know people who are not christians who are possessed of
great
beneficial wisdom
so
It complicates matters doesn't it you can't you can't just go yeah
But basically we're right and they're all wrong and they're going to burn in hell or unless they repent and
The new age is evil
This is like the rapture. So this absurd
Animated ai image of lot escaping from sodom and gamora if you really
I've been thinking a lot about this story because if you want to call sodom and gamora the city of bells and whistles
What does his wife really do she's just
Too attached to what happens next that's why she turns back and she's basically just transfixed isn't she the pillar assault is just someone
transfixed by by the internet just doom scrolling
and
People imagine certainly I I know people that think that the rapture is some sort of um, there's an incredible guys dead now
He was a wonderful
fascinating preacher
Canadian french guy anyway
He absolutely believed in the rapture the idea that you would be scooped off the planet as if you're going to be
You know some spaceships can come down and whisk you all away, but I can't really see what that is apart from suicide
um, if you can turn away from everything that you love and care for and immediately be
To disappear to paradise. I don't really
Understand it and I so I've been thinking about it a lot and I think that the rapture metaphorically anyway, um
Is that when you realize that everything is
Ugly and not true that your tort is beautiful and I do think it's worse now
I do think that there used to be much more beauty and that now it's being hidden
um
In every way with everything that we're doing to our bodies and with all of the buildings that we're putting up
besides and in front of churches and by the
horror of um
art
But I think that the rapture is just recognizing
Or being saved by the angels are being saved by God
It's just recognizing that all the truth and goodness and beauty that was ever there is still there
It's just not in the places that you're looking for it
It's all there
It's all there for you. It's just not
Where you're being told to direct your attention
And the moment that you understand that and you turn away and I don't mean half turn away
So that you're half looking at it and half wishing that you
um
Had that success or had that following or had that face or had those tits half wishing that you knew what was going on there
I mean when you completely turn away from it genuinely turn away from it
And you understand that you're here for your own purpose to to grow and to love
and to
Try and improve your understanding generously
When you genuinely turn away from from the bells and whistles then you
Then that is the rapture, isn't it?
That is the separation from those people that you might love dearly
And that are hugely important to you, but that you
Will leave behind to experience the truth and I don't mean materially leave behind
Because obviously you still love who you love and you're there when you need to be but I mean
Uh spiritually relinquish the things that you had thought were important before
In their entirety is the beginning. I don't think that's the end. I think it's just the first
The first step
That's all
Yeah, so the rapture is metaphorical
They're gonna love you all the all the rapture files. They're gonna say what does she not realize this
Let's say it's not let's say it's not metaphorical
Let's say it's absolutely real and it's coming
If it's absolutely real and it's coming it still wouldn't harm anybody to turn away right now from the nonsense
And prepare themselves for this this um
This escape. I'm just saying you can start it today. You don't even need to wait
Can I um
Tell you about something like I can't think of us. I could tell the story
I I probably could tell it to somebody else, but um
Tell us it kind of vaguely relates to alan watt
um
Have you ever seen a film?
Called the apartment
No, sorry
It's a clay. Okay, so it was made in 1960 and it's a it's a classic. It's it's considered a comedy classic
It was made by billy. Well billy wilder
He made it a year after some like it hot
So he was hot and he made this film and and it's
It's one of those films that gets quoted at you. Oh what you haven't seen the apartment or do you remember that scene in the apartment?
When dot dot dot dot anyway
I watched it for the first time the other day
Uh and as with all films as with as with almost all cultural products actually
um
Once you once the scales are falling from your eyes you realize the degree to which we are
manipulated
By our culture and that it and it's not it's not always an honest expression of of of of things
It's often often a method used to control us, but particularly the the the entertainment industry and particularly hollywood
um
so alan watt says
that
he's talking about
How how you behave when you're when you when you see through the veil as it were when you when you when you when you're aware
um
See i'm i'm skirting around the word awake because i i do hate the word awake
um
And he says
you'll look at a film
and
You work you'll no longer be distracted by the plot and all the things that they want you to look at
You'll you'll look at look at what what what message is being given to you
so the premise in the apartment
is that um
This character called baxter played by
by um jack lemmon
Lives in this very nice rented brownstone apartment very conveniently located
Uh in new york, it's a really nice apartment. You're wondering how he can afford it and he's he's he's a grunt
On the on the floor of this insurance company
They're like like like like battery chickens that they're at their desk and there are thousands of them and and and
They all want to get on they all want to be to go up the corporate ladder not to be a grunt
They want to get their own little cubicle
Um to promote it on the on the next floor. Uh, they want to be
Get the keys to the executive dining room
and
The jack lemon character
um
Gets on or
pleases his bosses
By giving them the keys to his apartment
So that they can knock off their secretaries or that they can have affairs in his in his apartment
So he's got this complicated rolled it exist in where he's sort of sort of oh, it's it's Tuesday
Yeah, sorry
Sounds like the green room of the club. I know right. Oh, okay
But anyway, carry on. Oh, I was thinking
um
What was this film
telling
The you you think about america in the in the 90 in 1960 would have been a fairly innocent place
James, I'm so sorry if I don't plug in my computer
It's gonna go flat then we'll lose this whole thing and you'll be frightfully cross with me
So don't hold that thought but if I I need to get the plug otherwise, I can
Yeah, yeah do that
I'm so bad it's up
Oh
It's balancing on the surface thing
Just go and do your do your thing. I I will just go and get a get a thing while you're there
Yeah, I'm here. I'm ready. Hey, don't go off now
Yes, no, this is a prop for what I'm about to tell you
Okay, okay
I'm gonna sit here staring at myself without you
Oh no, you've gone
I'm here. I just don't want to look at yourself while you're not there
embarrassing
I couldn't find the thing
But doesn't matter. I can I can use it. I can describe it through the medium of spoken word
um
This is this relates to my point about the apartment, which I'll come back to in a moment
In the latest edition of the spectator, which which we get because I still write for it
Don't have to justify yourself to me james
Yeah, but I but I you know what it's still it's the mainstream media and I do feel
I do feel tainted by me and I I say why I feel tainted
In the books section and it was on it was on the uh, it was on the
The masthead as well. It was whatever it's called the bit above the masthead the where where they're talking about the exciting articles in the magazine
And it was billed
Roan Williams
on Leonard Cohen
and
um in the book section they were reviewing some kind of
dreary
Fest shrift or something about
various essays on Leonard Cohen's
work and stuff. It was obviously a
shitty book
But the literary editor had clearly thought what are we he probably heard that roan williams the former archbishop of canterbury was a
Leonard Cohen fan and thought wouldn't it be ticklesome to have a former archbishop of of of canterbury
Writing about something as modish as popular music and and and and slightly edgy as as as lennard lennard cunt
and
I was reading this this
dreary review where there was no
critical
Grasp of the book no no no real take on it and the book itself was obviously bad
but
More than that
he missed
the fundamental problem with lennard cohen
which is that lennard cohen
was a
A spy. He was a member of the illuminati. He was he was he was working for morsel. He's working as intelligence agency
his his entire life as a poet and later as a singer was a cover for him to infiltrate the
The culture and and and corrupt it. He was a an obituary of of um one of of
Of this the sort of the Rothschild circles
He was he was a he had he he he he sexually abused children. He was a really
James I don't want to hear it because I I I am I I can I play lots of his music
Yeah, but you but but I I don't think you should
Okay
I don't believe anything about children
Thing is tanya that that cohen came from a I think he talked about his his heritage is
From the family of clam tours and stuff and rabbis and and things like that
But on cohen's level they're all into into the deeper cult
So so whenever you're listening to it to a lennard cohen song
You're actually listening to a kind of a kind of dark magic spell
And it is being worked on your brain. This is this is I suppose is where
It was he was on your
We're all lovely people that I could play and and sing
Yeah, he's and I stopped
Yes, and then I stopped play I stopped singing any of his lyrics about years ago
um because I was worried
that's when I started playing classical music on the piano instead of um
You know, I just thought it's it's safer, isn't it to play bark
Then possibly accidentally um say any spells
You don't understand
Anyway back to your review james. You've just really sad is is is sort of lady gaga with intellectual
pretensions. I mean they're both satanist. It's just that one that one has this sort of
sort of
Middle-class it's chin-striking intellectual credibility whereas whereas the other one doesn't uh, or maybe people like appreciate
be fair
Lady gaga is awful
I saw lennard kerlin concert and um
He was fantastic. Oh, yeah, and you'd have appreciated the rhinus and stuff
My friend the guy who gave me my job as a rock columnist tim rostron lovely man
and
I think tim had interviewed lennard koan and was a big fan and and and I had a girlfriend who was
Sam Smith is disgusting and Sharon is vile to listen to lady gaga is awful to listen to these people are
Britney Spears is awful to listen to
You hear about um in guantanamo bay people that having to listen to Britney Spears's torture and how people in the west laughed about it
Without realizing that they were being told they were they were being told you are being tortured listening to this
Shit and you don't even know and you're laughing and not realizing that you're laughing at yourself
But back to your review. So you read this review by raren williams and the spectator that you write for but that's fine
I don't believe it
What this whole
Oh, I know why
Oh
Yeah, I suppose the sound's gonna be rubbish because I tell you why
I forgot to set up my
Well, there's no point doing it now
For some reason it was because we had guests or something in the in this room
Um, I had to unplug my computer and take it down. Oh, I know why
ah
My annoying son
My stupid
Said oh
If you want to watch a thing to review
You're gonna have to do it on your computer not mine. So bring your computer downstairs
And I hate doing this because it means unsetting up my outfit, you know
Yeah, unsetting up my
It will still be fine
People that want to listen to us will struggle through
Is yours is yours on a microphone is yours on your internal microphone? No
Yeah
But okay
I'm everyone. I'm sorry for the sound. It's my annoying son's fault. Anyway
The point I was story the story
I was going to get to
Is this you
You and I
We're both calmed into thinking that Leonard Cohen is a great thing because he's moody and he's great breakup music
And famous blue raincoats and bird on the wire and he's grouchy and he's just but he's kind of
He's rye and he's a me either
He's sardonic and these are all great qualities and we love sardonic and rye and witty and slightly witty and and
We love the fact that alleluia is actually we don't alleluia is the most overrated song
But we think there's something kind of slightly magical about and it's dark magic
Um paper thin hotel is it's one of my favorite songs. Yeah
Which one?
Chelsea hotel hotel
Paper thin hotel. It's about the Chelsea hotel. All right
Yeah
um
And you condescend to thinking that that kind of
Oh, of course. Chelsea hotel was actually where giving your head on an unmade bed and all this stuff
All this kind of slightly sordid stuff that we were encouraged to think is cool
Yeah, yeah, that's not the song
Anyway, back to your review
I know it's not the song we're talking about but I'm saying that the same venue
It's still the same Chelsea hotel and I've stayed there and it's actually not it's nothing to write home about
It's loveless
loveless
Cheers it is it's it's so
Going back to the um
The apartment
Everyone talks about the it's it's it's meant to be part of your critical vocabulary
It's one of those things you're meant to have seen if you haven't seen the apartment. Yeah, you really should see the apartment
It's billy wilder billy wilder is great
um
Jack lemon oh and it's got shelly mcclean with her haircut in one of her earliest roles and she's brilliant
All this stuff is kind of true, but it also misses the point
The point of that film is it's showing it's telling you about
The rat race it's telling you if you want to get on in the rat race
Schmuck this is the deal
you have to you have to
Betray your moral principles
You have to
Pimp out your apartment
To your bosses because you're not going to get it on talent. You're not going to get it on hard work
You're going to get it on on satisfying their base desires and by the way
Everyone's having affairs. It's just like like four four office bosses in this insurance company
They're all having affairs and it's just it's how the world is and so on and so on and so
You are being in the guise of comedy
You are being
Fed a cult magic brainwashing
and
The things that we celebrate
As as classic movies and this is a classic billy wilder nice 60
They've been doing this since forever
And we've been enabling it by saying oh, isn't it a great movie? Oh, that's script by whatever is called
We allow our most talented writers and artists to give all of their
creativity to a language that is corrupting
people's memory
so
When you listen to any kind of conversation from the outside
As someone with none of these cultural markers in their vocabulary
You realize that people cannot distinguish between
Having lunch with friends and watching Richard Osmond. Sorry, mommy. Sorry. My mother's just obsessed with Richard Osmond
She loves them more than me. Um, he sees them more often, but
They they can't distinguish between these cultural markers and their real life
um
But everything that is
Of value you will be rewarded for
outside of this system
And you'll love who you love and you'll live morally or or and by by morally I mean
You'll either live in love or you'll live in fear and you'll either turn bad things into beautiful things
Or you'll turn beautiful things into ugly things and you'll do it
From your soul, you won't do it because you're
Belied into it and it's better the devil, you know, it just won't happen like that
the
The whole television thing is um, just escapism
really
But i'm a complete daydreamer in the filicalia
It says that daydreaming is it is a sin james and I spend a solid
Life dreaming. Yeah
are you
Are you not recommending the filicalia?
Oh, I always think it's I love the filicalia. Um, and I don't expect
to be in
Harmony with um an ascetic because I'm not
Vain enough to imagine I've spent 20 years
Dwelling in a cave contemplating my navel I've
But um, sorry, that's that's I have spent 20 years contemplating my navel but in the comfort of my
homes
Um, I don't know. I obviously think it's amazing, but I I'm a daydreamer and
Um, apparently that's a bad thing
You may think you're a dreamer, but you're not the only one is what you're saying
Hmm
I'm crossing your mouth with each other
No, I know, but I'm just I'm sad about this daydreaming thing
I really like I really am dreaming
Well, you tell me I think maybe you have to materialize it
So I think it's all right today dream, but you have to physically put something real
In the actual world if you want to change things so
You just need to plant a seed
instead of
A pick in order to picture your garden grow
You also need to put some physical actual seeds in so that you can shift the astral plane. Maybe I don't know
No
I think no
The the whole this whole you know this whole christian dualist idea that you were talking about where you
Who was it? I think it was actually Alan Watts that said this about how the the fantasy of the saints basically escaping their corporate real
body
um
Is also the the technological fantasy of escaping your body into this
um
Make you know into the
Virtual reality. Well, yes
It's the same fantasy. It's the same side. And by the way, philip sherrod the great christian orthodox thinker
He also says this he also says that the problems
That we have created in nature and from our desire to
Um control and by proxy destroy everything
We have to understand
The roots of this in our christian tradition very interesting, but we can't
Because we've been talking for two hours and I've got to go to my friend's societal should I should I read philip sherrod?
Yes, you should read absolutely christianity and um eros
And you should read the sacred and life and art and you should read them today and they're life changing
In fact, I just read them both again
I I do you know what I would get when they turn up
I'm gonna get such a bollocking from the wife because all I do is read christian books and she finds it really annoying
Well, she don't find these too annoying. They're fascinating
They're they're really fascinating titles. She's not going to read them
Well, don't um
but
I mean, I sorry then jake christ
Rip you're saying you have to hide what you read from your wife. No, I don't I don't I just don't like the grief
You know because she said why can't you read something? It's not christian
Well, this is very interesting
And I think that you would benefit from it hugely and it will probably be very different to the other things that you've read
and
Things I'm afraid because everything in our culture
Is either a reaction to christianity or it is of it
And they are the same thing. So
I'm really going to look them up now
You know
I because I haven't eaten
I'm only talking to you because we've got this big show in march and I want everybody's the last one we do
To tell you to tell everyone tell everyone what you're promoting what you're doing. Yes. I'm here to promote. I'm here to
Do your spiel you do your hard sell
now
Alice and I are doing a show in london at top secret comedy on the 7th of march
And it's our last one in london until christmas. We are doing some more around the country
We're going to go back to glasgo
We're in altered on friday. We're doing are you doing bath? We are going to bath. Please come to bath
Um, that's for the comedy festival. We're doing south hampton again
We're going to lots of places, but this one in london. It's in our big room
and it's on saturday the 7th of march at 5 p.m
and
It's it will be really fun and we're not going to be in london again till christmas
So I would love it if that was super busy. Please
Go everyone go
Listen to me now. Listen to me harry. Yes. Go to
go to
Go to tarnia's and alistar's show
At 5 p.m
On the on what day on the way
Saturday the 7th of march saturday the 7th
Of march in London. I think last day of the hunting season
Um in many many packs. Maybe the last day ever
um, yeah
Thank you tarnia
That was good
Um, interesting. Are you going to do now?
Yeah, I've got no I've got no milk in the house, but I cannot be bothered to go and get some milk
Immediately, I'm going to force myself to have again unfortunately. I've been banned from caffeine
I'm going to have a decaffeinated which would be really shit
Deca I'm going to make up for it. I'm going to try and have a cigarette with it because I'm about to because
it's
You know lent is
Yeah, what are you giving up? I'm giving up my morning cigarette
Well, I stopped smoking and I stopped everything and so nothing
Yeah, everything. Um, well, what do you mean forever? I've stopped smoking forever. I'm never smoking again and I've um
Why would you do that really to your body because it wasn't suiting emf
Sorry
How are you going to protect yourself from emf?
Tobacco protects you from emn
Yeah, well, I'm not it's not protect. It's not good for me anymore
Yeah, I'm not um, I'm not doing it ever again and I'm giving up complaining for lent
We we might be in danger of becoming very very boring if we become too saintly
That's what I'm saying. Well, I'm already struggling with it. I'm gonna have to have a minute
Hmm
I don't know
I've I've been talking to god about this this issue. Um about
I worry about
If I become too nice
Not, you know, not catty and stuff
In my articles. I may
destroy my artistic raison d'etre
anyway, tanya, um
Lovely talking to you. Thank you for your
By the way, let's get back to that shit wisdom. Um and everyone
Keep watching my stuff and supporting me if you can I think you can go to my website now
You can think you can even actually james deling poll dot
Really?
I don't think you can do it. Yeah, sorry. You can go. Um
You can support me
Go into your recitals. You bounded me by my love to love
Bye. Thank you
Don't turn your thing off. I won't turn it off. I won't turn it off