WEBVTT 00:13.840 --> 00:21.680 Welcome to the Delling Pod with me James Dellingpole, and I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest 00:21.680 --> 00:26.540 But before we meet him, let's have a word from our sponsor. I think actually I can guess what the sponsor is on this one 00:27.220 --> 00:29.240 It's probably gonna be monetary metals 00:30.680 --> 00:36.840 You may have noticed that gold has been doing pretty well recently in the last year 00:36.840 --> 00:41.220 I think it's increased in value in sterling terms by around 50% 00:41.220 --> 00:47.380 And if you'd bought gold when I first started recommending it on that on adverts like this 00:47.380 --> 00:54.220 You would have certainly more than doubled your money. Now a lot of you are probably thinking is it too late? 00:54.320 --> 00:58.400 Have I missed the boat? Well, I can't definitively answer that question 00:58.400 --> 01:04.060 Nobody can but if I had to guess I would say gold has got some way to go 01:04.060 --> 01:06.980 Yeah, sure there's going to be corrections, but you really ought to be owning 01:07.600 --> 01:12.400 Physical gold for lots and lots not paper gold. Obviously. You should be owning physical gold 01:12.900 --> 01:16.740 Now there are two ways of owning gold. Either you can actually own it 01:17.400 --> 01:19.560 Keep it in a vault or in your own home 01:20.600 --> 01:24.580 There are risks obviously with keeping it in your own home, you know, what if burb does come whatever? 01:25.360 --> 01:30.100 The problem with keeping it in a vault is that you then get paid a storage fee 01:30.100 --> 01:34.160 but there is another way of owning physical gold and 01:34.160 --> 01:39.400 Actually getting paid interest on it unusually and that is with a company that I've 01:39.820 --> 01:43.520 Recommended before and I use them myself. 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O. N. E. T. A. R. Y. Hyphen metals dot com forward slash 02:55.740 --> 03:03.580 Delling pole forward slash to learn more about how to participate and start earning a return on honest money again 03:03.580 --> 03:05.440 with monetary metals 03:08.060 --> 03:14.480 Welcome back to the Delling pod Keith Weiner. Um, I think it's been about what two years 03:15.220 --> 03:16.180 Since we lost 03:16.180 --> 03:21.140 Yeah, and I mean much has changed 03:22.440 --> 03:27.240 Recently, I'm so glad to have you on on the on back on the podcast because I mean 03:28.340 --> 03:31.180 What about the craziness with silver and gold? 03:32.100 --> 03:38.880 Yeah, gold fifty six hundred dollars silver hundred and twenty. I mean wow, I know I 03:41.020 --> 03:43.440 Mean I know it's I know it's your business 03:44.300 --> 03:44.880 But 03:45.680 --> 03:50.300 Are you in it just because it's a business or are you a sort of gold and silver bug as well? 03:51.400 --> 03:52.540 so I 03:53.340 --> 03:55.200 Got my PhD in 03:55.880 --> 03:57.660 What I would call a monetary science 03:58.280 --> 04:00.440 So studying monetary system 04:01.280 --> 04:01.600 understanding 04:02.940 --> 04:04.840 the failure of 04:06.040 --> 04:08.280 Second what happened? 04:11.600 --> 04:12.120 I 04:12.120 --> 04:15.660 Having tech problems the screen went black and that was it 04:16.960 --> 04:21.700 In you know why it's the it's the Illuminati. They hate us. They want us 04:23.220 --> 04:28.520 For whatever it was I know why Riverside is a better platform because 04:29.120 --> 04:34.280 It records everything locally so you never get any internet skips to break up on the audio 04:34.280 --> 04:40.420 But I have a better quality microphone that doesn't work with Riverside and 04:42.480 --> 04:47.980 It's very temperamental to be able to log into it. So I couldn't get it to work in my normal browser 04:47.980 --> 04:49.800 I'm now in a different browser and 04:50.800 --> 04:52.200 hopefully it's stable, but 04:52.900 --> 04:57.360 Well, I hope so Keith aren't you supposed to be good at tech 04:58.200 --> 05:04.480 Isn't that part of your job description? I joke about this everybody has a special private hell 05:04.480 --> 05:06.460 mine is that 05:06.460 --> 05:08.000 my last company 05:08.560 --> 05:13.280 developed audio technology for you know, telecommunications like this and 05:13.960 --> 05:20.380 We literally solved I invented and patented and we built working code to solve most of 05:20.380 --> 05:25.900 At least on the audio side the problems that still plague us today. So I literally built a better system 05:25.900 --> 05:26.000 um 05:27.420 --> 05:33.380 And that got sold to nortel networks right before they went bankrupt a via bought the pieces out of bankruptcy 05:34.080 --> 05:38.300 Um dropped it on the floor. It's it's, you know, totally done as a platform 05:38.940 --> 05:40.300 And so I have to live with 05:40.920 --> 05:46.060 You know the unsolved problem I literally solved and patented. That's my personal hell 05:47.980 --> 05:52.840 That is quite funny and it's quite funny. See you really are good at tech and yet 05:53.480 --> 05:55.240 You suffer like the rest of us 05:55.900 --> 05:58.300 That was my first career. I was a software developer and 05:59.000 --> 05:59.440 um 06:00.700 --> 06:02.820 So do you want me to just resume where I? 06:03.340 --> 06:09.860 Yeah, yeah, just so you were telling me about how your your phd. Yeah, so I studied monetary science and I studied 06:09.860 --> 06:10.580 um 06:11.100 --> 06:15.200 You know how the system is failing why it's failing. It's because we have irredeemable currency 06:15.200 --> 06:20.080 People say fiat currency. It's true. It's it's you know, treated as money because of law 06:20.620 --> 06:25.600 But it's irredeemable in the sense that you can't go to the bank and say now give me my money back 06:25.900 --> 06:29.040 You give them a 20 dollar bill. What do you want? You want change of 06:29.680 --> 06:32.980 You know, you want, you know, two fives and 10 what what do you want? 06:33.180 --> 06:38.420 But you know back in the in the time of redeemable currency, you get a one ounce gold piece 06:39.020 --> 06:41.200 Back if you put a 20 dollar bill on the teller window 06:41.800 --> 06:42.240 so 06:43.160 --> 06:44.040 systems failing 06:44.620 --> 06:47.500 gold is the solution and so I 06:47.960 --> 06:53.800 I developed the idea for this business based on thinking about the problem that we have 06:54.360 --> 06:57.360 And there's a very famous quote from John Maynard Keynes 06:58.500 --> 07:03.360 And most gold people would be familiar with the first part of it where he says there's no sure way 07:03.840 --> 07:08.980 To overthrow the capitalist order, which means overthrow of civilization by the way 07:09.640 --> 07:10.940 Then to debauch the money 07:11.580 --> 07:15.040 And most people then just say oh, I know what he means. He's talking about inflation 07:15.640 --> 07:17.200 But if you read through the quote 07:17.720 --> 07:19.060 Right, he's talking about 07:19.780 --> 07:24.020 Especially the end of the quote. He says and you know, you can destroy the world 07:24.580 --> 07:27.700 By engaging all of the hidden forces of economics 07:28.440 --> 07:31.220 Now today we would use the term incentive 07:31.220 --> 07:38.180 So you're offering incentives to destroy the world in a way that not one in a million can diagnose what's happening to the world 07:38.960 --> 07:42.100 Now if you think he meant rising consumer prices inflation 07:42.640 --> 07:43.160 then 07:43.740 --> 07:44.700 that means that 07:45.600 --> 07:46.840 You know, he's a moron 07:47.280 --> 07:50.460 I don't think Keynes was a moron. I think I mean he's evil, but I think he was a genius 07:50.940 --> 07:54.180 He was much smarter than his critics of his day or now 07:54.180 --> 07:57.860 And I don't think he thought that people wouldn't notice inflation 07:57.860 --> 08:02.420 And of course, whenever you have a bout of inflation, that's what everybody talks about all day long every day 08:02.920 --> 08:07.240 I remember the late 1970s. It was on the nightly news five days a week 08:07.240 --> 08:12.180 They talked about inflation. They talked about unemployment and they had something called the misery index 08:12.180 --> 08:14.000 That was inflation plus unemployment 08:14.000 --> 08:14.480 unemployment 08:15.120 --> 08:19.300 So what I think and Keynes is very explicit elsewhere in his writing 08:19.840 --> 08:22.020 He talks about pushing the interest rate to zero 08:22.760 --> 08:26.880 Now if you push the interest rate to zero asset prices are inverse interest rates 08:27.440 --> 08:33.760 Which means asset price is going to infinity and the reason why nobody can diagnose what's going on in the world is everybody loves the bull market 08:34.620 --> 08:38.040 So I think Keynes was absolutely brilliant. I mean again evil 08:38.040 --> 08:43.620 I don't want to say I'm anybody mist thinks that I'm you know praising him in any way 08:44.000 --> 08:47.280 I just think that you know, if you look at his plan to destroy the world 08:47.780 --> 08:53.380 He was effective in designing a destructive plan because he understood how you know markets work 08:54.060 --> 08:58.800 So I designed this company in monetary metals and we pay interest on gold and the purpose 08:59.500 --> 09:03.800 Was thinking about that quote of Keynes and saying what if you offered an incentive 09:04.520 --> 09:08.520 Not to destroy the world but to help the world get to a better place 09:09.360 --> 09:13.940 Then how would you do that and then that was like the hot moment was you offer interest on gold 09:14.560 --> 09:16.500 And that's the incentive to bring gold back 09:16.500 --> 09:19.960 You know, we don't say gold standard too much in our 09:20.520 --> 09:24.820 Discussion because that word is where that term is still loaded with emotional baggage 09:24.820 --> 09:28.140 Everybody has a different concept of what I think that means 09:28.680 --> 09:31.380 We want to bring back the use of gold as savings 09:32.300 --> 09:33.260 and as 09:33.260 --> 09:34.900 A vehicle for finance 09:35.540 --> 09:37.180 And so it's got to be able to 09:37.800 --> 09:42.900 One of the criticisms of gold right the Warren Buffett objection to gold. It doesn't earn a yield 09:42.900 --> 09:44.820 It's just the same lump of metal 09:45.460 --> 09:48.220 And you know if gold is money, which I believe it is 09:48.220 --> 09:52.140 Then it should be able to earn a return and that's um 09:52.660 --> 09:57.080 So yes, I'm in it for ideological reasons not just because well as a business 09:58.720 --> 09:59.760 Yeah, I mean 10:00.420 --> 10:03.440 These are sort of good times and bad times for us 10:04.480 --> 10:09.700 Well gold bugs fall into the better word and that I mean probably like you 10:10.380 --> 10:11.120 I've been 10:11.760 --> 10:12.980 telling my friends 10:13.660 --> 10:16.840 For years about like why I'm in gold 10:16.840 --> 10:21.060 I've you've got to be in gold be in silver silver silver silver's, you know 10:21.060 --> 10:27.980 Gold with rocket boosters on it, but but you should have a bit of both. You really should and I'm talking to people who 10:29.240 --> 10:35.540 Oh, I didn't know sort of spent times working at working at the invest the big invest American investment banks 10:36.300 --> 10:40.040 Or professional investors with with years of experience with them 10:40.540 --> 10:42.160 and they were they were sort of 10:42.160 --> 10:47.520 Nice to me, but they were slightly patronizing like like gold was something you had 10:47.520 --> 10:55.140 Maybe five to ten percent of in your in your portfolio just but but and they'd quote that Warren Buffett thing at me 10:55.140 --> 11:01.660 I mean, I have a much much cleverer brother who's who's who's he's like you. I mean, he's a he's a serious entrepreneur and 11:02.220 --> 11:09.000 I mean he indulged me, but he wasn't going. Yeah, James. Yeah, you're right. You're going to be vindicated one day 11:09.000 --> 11:09.640 so 11:10.180 --> 11:14.980 Probably like you I feel good about being vindicated at the same time 11:14.980 --> 11:15.580 I'm thinking 11:16.330 --> 11:22.120 The fact that gold and silver are doing this crazy stuff right now is not a good sign for the general 11:22.900 --> 11:24.380 World economy is it 11:25.060 --> 11:26.140 What does it mean, Keith? 11:27.180 --> 11:29.860 so, um, I let's use an analogy of 11:29.860 --> 11:30.460 Copernicus 11:31.460 --> 11:31.940 and 11:31.940 --> 11:36.760 You know before Copernicus people believed that everything revolves around the earth 11:37.320 --> 11:38.160 including the sun 11:38.760 --> 11:43.080 And you know in a certain sense you look at the sky things move across it makes sense, right? 11:43.540 --> 11:44.520 If you don't know any better 11:45.160 --> 11:47.960 Now the problem is if you look at the motion of certain planets 11:47.960 --> 11:55.420 They have this retrograde motion where the the planet moves forward and then back a little bit and then forward and back a little bit 11:55.420 --> 11:58.780 Now let alone you can't explain why it's moving backwards 11:59.480 --> 12:04.440 Even describing that backwards motion and trying to write equations for it becomes really complicated 12:05.280 --> 12:05.780 and 12:05.780 --> 12:10.580 Of course, you know as official trick doctrine everything's you know the earth is the center 12:10.580 --> 12:13.600 You couldn't really just say look this makes no sense 12:14.320 --> 12:20.480 And you know if you did you know you risked as Galileo did you know being tortured and you know killed and all that stuff in those days 12:21.200 --> 12:21.480 but 12:22.220 --> 12:23.960 The point being that when you 12:25.340 --> 12:29.940 Try to work a theory that isn't really right things become much more complicated 12:30.540 --> 12:31.240 and when you 12:31.240 --> 12:37.540 When you change your theory and realize you know how reality actually is then you know physics becomes much simpler 12:38.340 --> 12:41.000 And um, so people today look at 12:41.000 --> 12:47.480 You know everything's measured in dollars. I mean the other currencies pounds sterling euro or dollar derivatives 12:48.200 --> 12:49.280 It's a dollar world 12:50.140 --> 12:53.120 We're good or for ill for ill, but it is what it is 12:53.720 --> 12:54.120 um 12:54.720 --> 13:01.720 And they think okay wages are rising consumer prices are rising gold is rising everything's rising at different rates 13:02.430 --> 13:03.460 and as an artifact 13:04.040 --> 13:06.980 You know imagine you're standing on the deck of a sinking ship 13:07.540 --> 13:13.840 And you're in stormy seas going up and down with the waves and you're saying why is the lighthouse going up and down and mostly up? 13:14.520 --> 13:18.000 Like you just got the wrong vantage point and it's not seeing it accurately 13:18.600 --> 13:23.460 So what it means to me is very simple, but this is a profound paradigm shift 13:24.020 --> 13:29.140 Which is the dollar and the entire fiat complex with it is going down 13:29.780 --> 13:33.280 Now when people hear the dollar is going down they turn to the dollar index 13:33.920 --> 13:36.620 You know and you're measuring the dollar essentially in euros 13:37.560 --> 13:43.280 Okay, so the euro is going up a little bit in dollar terms, but that's like climbing one or two decks on the titanic 13:43.920 --> 13:49.460 uh, the whole thing is sinking and okay, you know the euro is moving up a little bit relative to the baseline 13:50.080 --> 13:54.260 Uh, you know, does it matter? But if you measure things in gold 13:54.800 --> 13:57.720 It's the only way to really measure economic values 13:58.320 --> 13:59.360 You realize wait a minute 13:59.360 --> 14:04.560 It was a couple of short years ago that the dollar was 16 milligrams of gold 14:05.180 --> 14:07.140 Today it's six milligrams of gold 14:07.840 --> 14:13.960 And you realize the whole thing is just losing value. It's just being degraded debased debauched 14:13.960 --> 14:14.860 You know, etc 14:15.480 --> 14:19.180 And that means every productive enterprise is bleeding out capital 14:19.840 --> 14:25.760 Obviously savers are bleeding out capital and savers can be investors if I see the right pitch everything is losing 14:26.320 --> 14:28.600 Economic value is just draining out everywhere 14:29.360 --> 14:30.360 That's really bad 14:30.960 --> 14:36.480 And then at the margin you see unemployment. You see, you know credit and capital pulling back from marginal markets 14:37.060 --> 14:38.400 You know all over the world 14:39.040 --> 14:42.280 This is this is the stuff where people become impoverished 14:42.820 --> 14:49.080 You know in much larger numbers and impoverished people become angry and desperate and then horrible things, you know can happen 14:49.800 --> 14:53.200 I wouldn't say as a direct, you know cause 14:53.840 --> 14:55.700 Poor people aren't necessarily violent 14:56.260 --> 14:59.740 But if a large number of people or especially if the poverty is sudden 15:00.340 --> 15:03.480 And they don't feel that it was because of their own laziness or 15:04.020 --> 15:09.020 Stupidity they feel that the economy is just leaving them out or leaving them behind 15:09.760 --> 15:11.020 um, you get 15:11.580 --> 15:15.180 You know radical political movements revolutions 15:15.860 --> 15:16.900 violence in the streets 15:17.640 --> 15:19.220 You know all that stuff 15:21.080 --> 15:23.020 Um, I was gonna ask you 15:24.040 --> 15:24.560 Where 15:25.860 --> 15:30.800 Where do you study this stuff because I I didn't I thought academe was so kind of 15:31.360 --> 15:33.220 sold to the mainstream narrative 15:33.920 --> 15:38.440 The did you where did you find a professor to to work with on this? Um 15:39.300 --> 15:41.880 I found a very unique professor 15:42.620 --> 15:47.160 Uh, his name was was because he's passed away a few years ago and tal fecatec Hungarian 15:47.740 --> 15:53.820 Who escaped Hungary in 1956 along with a lot of other Hungarians one step ahead of the russian tanks 15:54.440 --> 15:59.720 Made his way to canada became a professor in the canadian university system for you know, it was his career 16:00.500 --> 16:04.380 Um, but he was always and he was a mathematician. He taught mathematics 16:04.940 --> 16:09.980 But he was always interested in economics, you know kind of self-taught, but he had some interesting mentors 16:10.920 --> 16:11.400 um 16:12.060 --> 16:12.740 one of whom 16:13.220 --> 16:18.040 Is uh, it was an individual named colonel harwood who founded something called the american 16:18.620 --> 16:22.300 Institute for economic research a i er and great barrington 16:22.880 --> 16:23.400 massachusetts 16:24.020 --> 16:29.580 Now they became very famous a few years ago for the great barrington declaration against college. Oh, yeah. Yeah 16:30.260 --> 16:33.540 It's the same. It's the same great barrington. It's the same a i er 16:34.480 --> 16:37.940 so, um, I gave a keynote at a i er 16:37.940 --> 16:42.860 This is years ago probably 2015 or 2018 or something many years ago now 16:43.480 --> 16:48.920 Uh, you know talking about, you know, some of my theories and it was pretty well received and um 16:48.920 --> 16:49.700 afterwards 16:50.340 --> 16:55.700 A bunch of us were sitting so a i er is in this old mansion that was built in the 16:55.700 --> 16:59.580 You know 1920s very opulent very posh 16:59.580 --> 17:06.580 A little bit shabby, you know nowadays, but uh sort of picture the building and it was a house for a very wealthy guy 17:07.140 --> 17:09.880 Now there's an institute there, but anyway, they still have kind of the salon 17:10.320 --> 17:14.820 so a bunch of us were just talking after dinner in the salon and um 17:15.460 --> 17:19.100 You know so colonel harwood passed away. I think in the 1980s a long time ago 17:19.900 --> 17:20.740 um his 17:21.480 --> 17:23.880 son who at that time was then elderly 17:24.460 --> 17:25.300 said to me 17:26.080 --> 17:32.260 Your ideas sound like the ideas of my father. I haven't heard anybody talk like this in, you know, many decades 17:33.000 --> 17:37.800 And someone said, oh, yeah great minds, you know, think alike and you know, this kind of ha ha, you know laugh it off 17:38.340 --> 17:39.820 But I was thinking about it. It's like 17:40.260 --> 17:41.640 I'm not sure if that's true 17:42.180 --> 17:45.400 And then someone else said and I hadn't realized this at all 17:45.400 --> 17:51.560 Fecke's hang when he was much younger was mentored by harwood and spent many 17:51.560 --> 17:55.700 You know hours days weeks months on and off visiting with harwood 17:55.700 --> 17:59.940 He was editing his journals and his papers and all kinds of things and there's no question 18:00.580 --> 18:02.260 Picked up a lot of ideas in harwood 18:02.920 --> 18:08.220 Now feckett's hang would say and did say in his classroom that his ideas could come from carl menger 18:08.220 --> 18:11.960 Who was the you know, essentially recognized founder of the austrian school? 18:12.740 --> 18:13.480 and I think 18:14.020 --> 18:17.620 And I can't and I haven't really researched this to put together the last piece 18:18.180 --> 18:19.700 But I think what happened was 18:20.320 --> 18:20.800 harwood 18:21.360 --> 18:27.180 Must have spoke german or you know read in read german fluently and read menger, which was not she 18:27.180 --> 18:31.120 Menger wasn't translated into english until long after that 18:31.680 --> 18:33.620 But read menger in the original german 18:34.220 --> 18:38.700 And developed his ideas mentored feckett's hang feckett's hang then 18:39.460 --> 18:42.000 I became a student not really intentionally 18:42.000 --> 18:47.960 I mean I dropped out of college in computer science because I wanted to go builds. I'm an entrepreneur not an academic 18:48.540 --> 18:54.540 I wanted to go build a company. I got excited by you know, michael dell and bill gates and all these people that dropped out and do stuff 18:55.100 --> 18:56.020 And that's what I did 18:56.560 --> 19:02.720 Built that company sold it in 2008 and then I never thought I'd go back to school for anything let alone a soft 19:03.220 --> 19:04.460 science like economics 19:05.460 --> 19:09.200 but it was it was fascinating it was compelling and 19:09.200 --> 19:10.820 So I just started to write essays 19:11.540 --> 19:11.980 to 19:12.960 --> 19:14.920 You know, you don't know something 19:15.540 --> 19:18.920 As well until you try to write about it and teach it and then you really 19:18.920 --> 19:24.480 So I just was writing essays and of course I shared essays with this guy who'd become my professor 19:25.040 --> 19:28.420 And then at some point he said, you know, you really have something here. You should 19:28.420 --> 19:30.140 You know apply for your phd 19:30.540 --> 19:36.480 I was like, okay, you know that sounds interesting. It's not accredited. I want I want to I always put that asterisk up front 19:36.480 --> 19:39.040 I could never get a job but this is not a real credential 19:39.580 --> 19:43.760 But feckett was a real university man. My other dissertation examiner 19:43.760 --> 19:46.540 Is another austrian school economist that would be 19:47.020 --> 19:53.360 Somewhat well known in austrian schools Juan Ramon Raleo as a professor of economics at Juan Carlos University in Madrid 19:53.360 --> 19:56.140 So he was my other dissertation examiner 19:56.740 --> 19:57.240 and 19:57.240 --> 20:03.820 You know, I wrote about kind of the end of the world and how it works with old backwardation and all these things 20:04.500 --> 20:05.940 and just became 20:06.500 --> 20:08.180 endlessly fascinated with us 20:08.760 --> 20:09.260 and 20:10.100 --> 20:12.320 Did you say backwardation? Yes 20:13.180 --> 20:15.120 That's that's a word I've been seeing 20:15.940 --> 20:18.420 Quite a bit recently. I don't know what it means 20:18.420 --> 20:21.920 I think I get credit for introducing that word into the gold community 20:22.480 --> 20:22.780 around 20:24.400 --> 20:26.340 2010 or 2011 or 2012 20:27.120 --> 20:33.620 So very simply it's when the price of gold in the spot market is higher than the price of gold in the futures market 20:34.200 --> 20:38.780 Normally a futures contract should be higher because there's an interest rate and across the storage 20:39.440 --> 20:43.680 So nobody will sell you a futures contract unless you cover the you know the interest 20:43.680 --> 20:44.660 however 20:45.680 --> 20:50.080 Backwardation can occur and backwardation any normal commodity means scarcity 20:50.740 --> 20:53.580 So imagine but here's a picture of this 20:53.580 --> 20:55.400 You know, think of the wheat market 20:56.000 --> 20:59.380 I don't know how it is, you know, the uk is probably similar to here 20:59.380 --> 21:01.420 The wheat harvest comes in 21:01.420 --> 21:03.780 somewhere, you know july to august 21:04.600 --> 21:05.100 so 21:06.200 --> 21:07.540 Imagine july 1 21:08.160 --> 21:11.840 You drive a grain empty grain truck to one of those grain towns 21:12.530 --> 21:16.660 You know with the silos and everything and say how much to fill this your truck up 21:17.200 --> 21:18.600 with a load of wheat 21:19.260 --> 21:22.760 Well, they'd be laughing at you because you're like a week before the harvest starts to come in 21:22.760 --> 21:26.860 Nobody has any grain. I mean they probably pop the top off those silos 21:26.860 --> 21:28.400 You can probably see, you know light in there 21:28.400 --> 21:31.940 They're hosing it all down and cleaning it up getting ready for the new delivery 21:32.540 --> 21:36.000 And you say no, I'm serious and you take out a lot of you know, $20 bills 21:36.560 --> 21:38.160 Well, somebody's gonna make a phone call 21:38.760 --> 21:43.920 And turn some truck around that was halfway to a bakery or to a brewery somewhere bring it back 21:44.340 --> 21:47.960 And say okay, $17 a bushel will fill your truck 21:48.980 --> 21:54.760 And so if you do that, you're gonna pull the the weed out from some other contract that was, you know, paying less 21:54.760 --> 21:59.400 Whereas if you're willing to wait until september delivery a month and a half away 22:00.660 --> 22:04.180 Then instead of $17 a bushel it might be $7 a bushel 22:04.180 --> 22:09.060 So the fact that the price is higher in the spot market versus the futures market 22:09.600 --> 22:11.160 Is because of there's a scarcity 22:11.860 --> 22:16.860 Now in weed it makes sense, right? There is going to be a scarcity the day before the harvest starts to arrive 22:17.400 --> 22:18.140 Yeah gold 22:18.140 --> 22:25.300 We've been accumulating gold without any particular limit for at least 6500 years 22:27.600 --> 22:30.820 There's no such thing as a glut in gold and there's no such thing as a scarcity 22:30.820 --> 22:33.440 However, gold can be scarce to the market 22:34.120 --> 22:40.220 And so we do have intermittent backwarditions in gold much more recently. We've had backwardition in silver 22:40.960 --> 22:43.580 It got pretty to a pretty severe level in october 22:44.280 --> 22:48.900 It recurred at the end of the year and into january. It's not backwardated at the moment 22:51.220 --> 22:52.180 But that's 22:52.860 --> 22:53.500 You know 22:54.060 --> 22:57.420 part of part of the rising prices story for the metals 22:58.080 --> 23:03.480 Is that you know, they become scarcer because people just are reluctant to bring their metal to market 23:03.480 --> 23:04.400 They'd rather hold it 23:04.920 --> 23:06.180 You know close to the vest 23:06.700 --> 23:08.320 When that happens and the price goes up 23:08.320 --> 23:11.820 hopefully the price higher price draws more metal into the market and 23:12.380 --> 23:16.660 You know the world doesn't just come to an end. But at the end of the day 23:17.380 --> 23:20.640 Um if gold withdraws its bid on the dollar 23:21.260 --> 23:24.180 The dollar is finished. Now let me explain what I mean by that 23:24.880 --> 23:26.120 In times of crisis 23:26.880 --> 23:32.440 It's always the bid that is withdrawn never the offer, right? So a live market has two prices bid an offer 23:32.440 --> 23:36.340 You want to sell your house? You list it at some price. That's the offered price 23:36.340 --> 23:40.400 That doesn't mean anybody's paying that. That's just that's the price you'd like to get 23:41.180 --> 23:47.720 Bid price is what the the buyers say. Okay, you know, if you if you'd you know, a hundred thousand pounds lower 23:47.720 --> 23:48.800 You know, I'd be buying it 23:48.800 --> 23:53.620 That's the bid and then it doesn't move because you don't want to come down and they don't want to come up until somebody 23:54.740 --> 23:56.560 You know compromises or whatever 23:57.900 --> 23:59.980 If there was a real crisis 24:00.640 --> 24:01.040 suppose 24:01.460 --> 24:05.980 The us geological survey came out and said there's going to be an earthquake in la 24:06.540 --> 24:10.700 15 on the Richter scale nothing taller than a dollhouse would be left standing 24:11.700 --> 24:14.520 There would be no lack of offers to sell real estate 24:15.220 --> 24:20.220 Some of them would be just under where it had been previously. Some of them would be bargaining and try to come down 24:20.220 --> 24:21.740 But what you would see is no bid 24:22.340 --> 24:29.720 No bid from Santiago Chile to british columbia and uh in canada and probably as far east as the mississippi river 24:29.720 --> 24:31.720 There'd be no bid as the entire world 24:32.860 --> 24:38.800 Holds their breath waiting for the earthquake to hit when it hits then the bid comes back in and perhaps a lot lower 24:38.800 --> 24:39.280 Who knows? 24:39.780 --> 24:42.180 No, but it's always a bid that withdraws 24:42.180 --> 24:47.180 Now when you see thoughtful speakers and I've seen this a couple of times they say goals is different 24:47.180 --> 24:49.740 It's the offer that's withdrawn in gold 24:50.760 --> 24:54.400 This is like, you know, the planets have retrograde motion 24:55.140 --> 24:59.340 There's a weird anomaly that's complex to explain why is gold different 24:59.340 --> 25:02.260 It's offer this is withdrawn and then you just wait a minute 25:02.260 --> 25:04.820 That's because you're looking at it from the dollar 25:04.820 --> 25:11.660 You're inside the dollar bubble and when you get yourself out of that and you look at things objectively. No the bid is being withdrawn 25:11.660 --> 25:15.460 It's just not the dollar bid on gold. It's the gold bid on the dollar 25:16.100 --> 25:19.520 And when the gold bid on the dollars was drawn the dollar has no value 25:20.340 --> 25:24.880 And you won't be able to buy any commodity from oil and that gas wheat soy 25:25.340 --> 25:28.800 All all those prices will be infinity in dollar terms 25:29.340 --> 25:33.620 And people will call hyperinflation. They will assume it was a matter of printing too much 25:33.620 --> 25:35.180 In a quantity of dollars 25:35.980 --> 25:36.860 That ain't it 25:37.500 --> 25:40.480 But that will be how people will probably perceive it 25:41.140 --> 25:41.700 um 25:42.200 --> 25:46.740 Is that is that possible? I mean because people people need stuff 25:47.540 --> 25:48.980 and I mean 25:48.980 --> 25:52.920 Well, they've been using dollars since forever 25:53.660 --> 25:57.860 What what what else could they use? I mean not everyone's got gold to buy stuff. So 25:57.860 --> 26:02.780 Yeah, I was gonna say the thing with these kinds of things is when you look at individual incentives 26:03.560 --> 26:06.480 right the whole the whole premise of the Austrian school 26:07.140 --> 26:09.360 is methodological individualism 26:09.980 --> 26:11.520 And you can't say well 26:11.520 --> 26:15.060 People need a currency because they need to buy stuff. Yeah, that's all true 26:15.060 --> 26:17.440 But what is making an individual act? 26:17.720 --> 26:20.900 And in this case, what is making the gold owner act? 26:21.380 --> 26:24.820 If the gold owner is losing trust in the counterparty 26:24.820 --> 26:28.580 i.e the government and the government central bank and the commercial banks 26:29.140 --> 26:34.200 Then he says yeah, sure. I'm going to spend my dollars on food and whatever but my gold bar 26:34.900 --> 26:40.100 I'm holding it and I won't put it into the market for this, you know arbitrage care trade 26:40.740 --> 26:41.260 um 26:42.020 --> 26:47.360 And so what you see in backwardation is a risk-free profit on offer 26:48.020 --> 26:52.340 So the market is saying, you know, give me your gold bar and I'll pay you 26:53.020 --> 26:57.800 Hypothetical and we don't have backwardation and gold today. I really want to emphasize. This is not the current condition 26:57.800 --> 27:01.720 Suppose you had it where the spot price is six thousand dollars 27:02.260 --> 27:06.880 So you could sell this for six thousand dollars, but again, this is a gold bar not a samsung phone 27:07.360 --> 27:10.320 You could sell this for six thousand dollars and simultaneously 27:10.980 --> 27:14.380 Buy a contract to have it delivered in april 27:15.240 --> 27:16.760 for 5600 dollars 27:17.660 --> 27:22.060 So you have to cash in your account you bought the you know, you bought the futures contract 27:22.340 --> 27:26.360 There's no risk and there's no margin call because you have to 100 of the cash you need to take delivery 27:26.900 --> 27:31.980 But you're just waiting for april and you pocket 400 you get the same amount of gold back and you pocket 400 27:31.980 --> 27:36.280 I mean, what a good deal, right? But the market doesn't offer free deals 27:36.740 --> 27:41.380 There's only one reason why the market's offering that deal and that is people are not trusting the counterparty 27:41.380 --> 27:44.100 To put their gold into the market like that 27:44.880 --> 27:49.880 They're saying no, thank you even in this example to four hundred dollars of free money 27:50.560 --> 27:52.080 When that happens en masse 27:52.600 --> 27:53.960 So it's the gold owner saying 27:54.800 --> 27:56.080 You're not getting this 27:56.080 --> 28:00.840 I don't trust you if I exchange this or a piece of paper at the end of the day 28:00.840 --> 28:03.280 I'm going to be stuck with the paper the gold's going to be gone 28:03.780 --> 28:04.860 So I won't do it 28:04.860 --> 28:08.560 And if everybody with gold, you know does this 28:09.160 --> 28:13.240 Then you end up with backwardation and by a series of arbitrages 28:13.240 --> 28:16.740 I wrote a paper called when gold backwardation becomes permanent 28:16.740 --> 28:21.020 Everybody should read that paper try to write for a lay audience 28:22.980 --> 28:28.200 By a series of arbitrages the prices of all commodities will be driven to infinity 28:29.100 --> 28:32.280 Now, you know, why is this because 28:32.960 --> 28:35.360 People with dollars still desire gold 28:35.360 --> 28:39.280 It's just the people with gold no longer desire to trade for dollars 28:39.900 --> 28:42.200 So you have an ace massive asymmetry 28:42.800 --> 28:46.800 So if you have dollars and you're desperate to get gold and you can't get gold directly 28:47.320 --> 28:50.100 What might you do you might buy some crude oil 28:50.700 --> 28:51.540 And say oh 28:52.060 --> 28:54.460 There's a gold bid on crude oil just not on dollars 28:54.460 --> 28:56.460 I'll buy the crude oil and sell it for gold 28:57.080 --> 28:59.700 And that's going to drive the price of crude oil up in dollars 29:00.180 --> 29:01.820 And down in gold terms 29:02.300 --> 29:06.540 And that that trade will continue until the price of crude and dollars 29:07.160 --> 29:09.320 You know skyrocket so high so fast 29:09.320 --> 29:12.420 That people say okay the dollar is done stick a fork in it 29:13.160 --> 29:16.600 And um, you know, that'll be that'll be called hyperinflation 29:17.480 --> 29:20.140 And then what happens how does it resolve itself? 29:20.640 --> 29:24.700 Well, the problem is nobody has any money that you wake up. You don't have any money 29:24.700 --> 29:28.360 Your employer doesn't have any money the grocery store doesn't have any money 29:28.360 --> 29:31.860 And so civilization seizes up 29:32.420 --> 29:35.900 This is this is a really really I mean I encourage people to read the paper 29:35.900 --> 29:41.880 It's a really bleak scenario when you can't produce or distribute energy and food 29:42.500 --> 29:43.760 You know at large scale 29:44.520 --> 29:47.840 When that when that happens cities become death zone 29:47.840 --> 29:51.360 I mean, you know, you think about uh, even 18th century technology 29:51.360 --> 29:54.960 You couldn't sustain the population of london and new york city or whatever 29:55.500 --> 29:59.480 Right and there's not nearly enough food producers as far too many graphic designers 29:59.480 --> 30:01.700 You know and all that that don't 30:01.700 --> 30:02.800 You know produce food 30:02.800 --> 30:05.700 So there's a whole reset of society 30:06.400 --> 30:07.260 And um 30:07.840 --> 30:10.540 I think the statistic I've read north america 30:10.540 --> 30:15.460 In with 18th century technology would support a population of maybe 30 million people 30:16.480 --> 30:17.320 That's it 30:17.320 --> 30:23.580 This is a horrible scenario, right? I mean we're not there yet and I think we've got years to go 30:24.280 --> 30:31.160 But you know you talk about gold of 5600 dollars. Yeah, this isn't good. This is like a road in trust and 30:31.160 --> 30:34.900 obviously civil liberties all around the world and 30:35.880 --> 30:39.080 You know people are becoming more angry more desperate more warlike 30:39.780 --> 30:40.260 um 30:40.260 --> 30:42.460 And poorer much poorer 30:43.080 --> 30:45.020 And if you own assets you feel richer 30:45.560 --> 30:48.320 The most people don't know you know gold own assets 30:48.920 --> 30:51.580 They have their wage and you know the wage is 30:51.580 --> 30:55.420 Diminishing and they're angry and but the problem is they're angry at the wrong party 30:55.420 --> 30:58.680 They're mad at their boss and I think their boss is being a cheapskate 30:59.780 --> 31:01.760 That's not really the root cause 31:03.180 --> 31:06.480 Well, no, I mean doesn't this go back 31:07.040 --> 31:10.000 What at least as far as 1913? 31:10.580 --> 31:12.920 Yeah, and the creation of the federal reserve 31:13.660 --> 31:17.240 Where the the dollar had a sort of self-destruction method 31:18.120 --> 31:22.760 Built into it. Didn't it the sort of the is it called the can can tion effect 31:23.480 --> 31:28.660 Um, whereby the the people who sort of print the money get most of the value and uh 31:29.640 --> 31:30.820 Yeah, I don't 31:31.440 --> 31:34.060 I can sort of see can tion effect 31:35.160 --> 31:38.160 You know let's say in in medieval europe 31:38.680 --> 31:43.700 And if let's say there was some gold rush with somebody found something massively rich gold right in gold mine 31:43.700 --> 31:46.520 Some town in spain and gold was gushing forth there 31:46.520 --> 31:50.780 And so merchants then would come to that town and be paid more than they should 31:50.780 --> 31:55.400 For goods, you know, and then they would slowly distribute almost like a 31:55.400 --> 31:58.920 Wave like you drop a pebble in the pond and the wave ripples out 31:58.920 --> 32:01.160 The gold would ripple out across europe 32:01.160 --> 32:06.520 But coming from the extreme western part of europe in spain, you know, it'd be rippling east and north and south 32:06.520 --> 32:08.920 You know from there sort of almost see that 32:09.480 --> 32:12.200 But today when they change the interest rate 32:13.040 --> 32:15.260 Everybody has simultaneous access 32:16.080 --> 32:18.680 to to credit at the new cheaper rates 32:19.900 --> 32:20.700 And um 32:21.840 --> 32:25.160 So the government benefits things they benefit. I mean this is all 32:25.660 --> 32:28.600 You know, it's like saying cocaine is a benefit because you don't have to sleep 32:29.460 --> 32:33.440 Um, or sugar high is a benefit. It's not really a benefit, but it's a pseudo 32:33.440 --> 32:35.840 It seems like a benefit at the time anyway 32:36.460 --> 32:38.960 The government has the benefit of being able to borrow 32:39.680 --> 32:43.920 You know and spend above what it would be able to do if it was just living on tax revenues 32:44.580 --> 32:50.800 And so the politicians get reelected. This is wildly popular people love free goodies, right and um 32:51.480 --> 32:57.320 That meanwhile, yes the destruction of of the whole damn thing and that's the purpose of a central bank. I mean 32:58.280 --> 33:03.020 People say well the the 1970 was 1975 humphrey hawkins law 33:03.020 --> 33:05.620 United states the fed has a dual mandate 33:06.120 --> 33:10.920 Most central banks many central banks have a single mandate, which is keep inflation under control 33:10.920 --> 33:14.260 The fed is a dual mandate keep inflation under control and 33:14.780 --> 33:16.560 Keep unemployment under control 33:17.200 --> 33:19.600 Now it can't it can't accomplish the one 33:20.260 --> 33:23.080 Goal let alone two but leaving that aside 33:23.980 --> 33:25.880 Um, the real purpose 33:26.440 --> 33:31.140 This is the window dressing. This is the pre-tax that they they promise the people 33:31.140 --> 33:32.580 You know, don't realize any better 33:32.580 --> 33:39.000 The real purpose is to enable the government to borrow and thereby spend more than they could taxes are unpopular 33:39.000 --> 33:40.200 You can only get so much 33:40.640 --> 33:45.540 And so you can only spend so much, but if you want to buy more folks by spending more you have a central bank 33:46.640 --> 33:48.840 That's the real purpose and the rest is all 33:48.840 --> 33:50.680 You know as I say window dressing 33:52.160 --> 33:52.600 well 33:53.820 --> 33:56.580 I I I've forgotten in our conversations 33:57.140 --> 33:58.700 what level of 33:59.420 --> 34:00.720 conspiracy theorist you are 34:01.240 --> 34:03.020 I mean, I'm not I would be 34:04.040 --> 34:05.880 Sorry, I'm not I'm not really 34:06.460 --> 34:08.660 You're not okay, so I would be 34:09.660 --> 34:10.960 10 at least 34:11.620 --> 34:17.320 Well on a scale of 10, I'd probably be like 11. I said, did you ever see um, uh spinal tap? 34:18.000 --> 34:23.380 Yeah, the knob was up to 11, right? So I definitely got to 11. Um, but 34:24.100 --> 34:27.560 I mean so so there's no point in asking you like 34:28.280 --> 34:35.660 Who who benefits from the system? Who is it? Is it just the the systemic nature of of sort of corruption and and stuff? 34:35.660 --> 34:43.240 Or is it I mean do you believe that there is a kind of a narrow elite which arranged this system to screw us all over? 34:43.860 --> 34:44.480 You know 34:44.480 --> 34:46.840 I have a couple of things to say to that 34:46.840 --> 34:50.520 I mean in general, I'm a believer that people pursue incentives 34:51.140 --> 34:56.620 And you end up with structures that are complex and and ordered and you say, okay 34:56.620 --> 34:59.360 Well, how could that be ordered if there wasn't somebody masterminding it? 34:59.780 --> 35:01.520 Uh, but it's something that emerges 35:02.080 --> 35:03.800 from you know the incentive structure 35:04.610 --> 35:05.560 but um 35:06.600 --> 35:08.900 I I uh 35:09.450 --> 35:14.420 I was saying about elites. There's another piece of your question. I was going to answer. Um 35:18.860 --> 35:25.260 Global warming is a massive con. There is no evidence whatsoever 35:25.960 --> 35:33.520 That man-made climate change is a problem that is going to kill us that we need to amend our lifestyle and the knowledge 35:33.520 --> 35:35.600 to deal with it. It's a non-existent problem 35:35.600 --> 35:41.060 But how do you explain this stuff to your normie friends? 35:41.360 --> 35:47.180 Well, I've just brought out the revised edition of my 2012 classic book 35:47.760 --> 35:51.640 Watermelons, which captures the story of how 35:52.120 --> 35:58.600 Some really nasty people decided to invent the global warming scare in order to 35:58.600 --> 36:02.880 Fleece you to take away your freedoms to take away your land 36:03.780 --> 36:08.500 It's a shocking story. I wrote it as I say in the well 2011 actually 36:08.500 --> 36:14.500 The first edition came out and it's a snapshot of a particular era 36:14.800 --> 36:16.180 the era when 36:16.620 --> 36:21.740 The people behind the chime climate change scan got caught red-handed 36:22.360 --> 36:23.460 Tinkering with the data 36:23.460 --> 36:27.840 Torturing till it screamed in a scandal that I helped christen 36:28.580 --> 36:35.600 Climategate, so I give you the background to to the skull jugglery that went on in in these seats of learning where 36:35.600 --> 36:39.020 These supposed experts were informing us. We've got to act now 36:39.600 --> 36:44.820 I rumbled their their scan. I then asked the question. Okay, if it is a scan 36:45.540 --> 36:48.120 Who's doing this and and why? 36:48.760 --> 36:49.580 It's a good story 36:50.120 --> 36:56.020 I I've kept the the original book pretty much as is but I've written two new 36:56.020 --> 36:59.040 chapters one at the beginning and one at the end 36:59.040 --> 37:03.080 Explaining how it's even worse than we thought 37:03.690 --> 37:06.920 I think it's a I think it still stands up. I think it's it's a good read 37:06.920 --> 37:10.340 I obviously I'm biased, but I'd recommend it. You can buy it from 37:10.920 --> 37:12.780 James deling poll dot co.uk 37:13.500 --> 37:14.580 forward slash shop 37:14.580 --> 37:19.680 You're probably fine like just go go to my website and look for it James deling poll dot co.uk 37:20.440 --> 37:26.080 And I hope it helps keep you informed and gives you the material you need to 37:26.080 --> 37:31.860 Bring around all those people who are still persuaded that oh, it's a disaster 37:31.860 --> 37:37.260 We must amend our ways and appease the gods appease mother god every day. It's a scam 37:41.120 --> 37:41.600 I 37:41.600 --> 37:42.240 But um 37:43.540 --> 37:45.460 I I uh 37:46.000 --> 37:49.780 I was saying about elites. It was another piece of your question. I was gonna answer 37:50.620 --> 37:51.100 um 37:56.670 --> 38:00.090 Anyway, I lost my train of thought on on the other don't worry. I'm doing that all the time 38:00.090 --> 38:07.010 We can we can we can come back to it. Um, but um, I mean 38:07.750 --> 38:08.230 how 38:10.650 --> 38:17.070 How does this this this play out and what is is is there is there a it's there a happy way we can um 38:17.630 --> 38:18.370 I mean 38:19.030 --> 38:21.350 Oh, for example, where do you think? 38:22.470 --> 38:26.370 Gold and silver are gonna go. I mean, I know this is everyone's wondering that but 38:27.090 --> 38:29.870 Well, to me, it's really how low does the dollar go? 38:30.410 --> 38:36.410 I mean it fell from so in 1913 the dollar is 1500 milligrams of gold 1.5 grams 38:37.210 --> 38:39.150 It's now 6 milligrams 38:40.790 --> 38:48.010 You know, that's a huge loss, but of course they keep falling and eventually to be zero the question is how long get there 38:48.650 --> 38:49.150 um 38:50.030 --> 38:51.230 You know people 38:52.550 --> 38:54.410 The thing about any 38:54.970 --> 38:55.610 society 38:56.410 --> 38:59.970 Is that there's a stable or there's a pseudo stable social order 39:00.630 --> 39:01.270 because 39:02.070 --> 39:02.710 everybody 39:03.370 --> 39:05.630 slots into that social order in a certain place 39:06.410 --> 39:07.090 and everybody 39:07.950 --> 39:13.130 Also likes it. They may grumble to some degree, but they ultimately they want that system 39:13.130 --> 39:15.750 Maybe they think they should be higher up in the pecking order 39:15.750 --> 39:18.030 But everybody's invested in it 39:18.030 --> 39:23.930 Whether it's the person getting the free goodie whether it's a bureaucrat has a job giving out that free goodie 39:23.930 --> 39:27.210 Whether it's a politician who gets reelected by promising that free goodie 39:28.010 --> 39:32.390 Uh, whether it's the do-gooder productive citizen who feels 39:32.910 --> 39:35.430 You know kind of assuages some unearned guilt 39:35.990 --> 39:42.850 Well, I feel you know, I feel bad that I made so much money, but you know, at least the government is doing good to the poor 39:43.630 --> 39:46.710 You know, like everybody has their reason of why they 39:47.210 --> 39:48.630 Uh support this 39:49.170 --> 39:51.090 But if you if you said to anybody 39:51.810 --> 39:54.990 Let's repeal all the welfare programs and replace them with nothing 39:56.290 --> 39:58.550 Um, everybody would call you a fascist 39:59.250 --> 40:00.090 It's kind of ironic 40:00.810 --> 40:05.110 Fascist as a you know, very comprehensive the government controls everything in the economy 40:05.110 --> 40:08.530 And you're saying the government should have a reduced role and they call you a fascist 40:08.530 --> 40:12.550 Because I think fascist means anybody I don't like or anybody's view. I don't like 40:13.010 --> 40:14.250 yeah, um 40:14.250 --> 40:14.850 but 40:15.570 --> 40:18.690 You know be wildly unpopular and I mean among people that are 40:19.230 --> 40:24.830 Entrepreneurs making money in business. I mean professionals doctors lawyers architects engineers accountants 40:24.830 --> 40:28.850 You know people working for wages the production people would not go along 40:28.850 --> 40:30.590 If you said let's end so it's not 40:31.250 --> 40:33.610 You know the payers versus the the mooters 40:34.130 --> 40:37.830 And it's not like okay. You have some shadowy. We all this was going to say 40:38.370 --> 40:39.110 I've met 40:39.650 --> 40:41.310 any number of central bankers 40:42.010 --> 40:44.130 In my in my travels around the world 40:44.690 --> 40:49.290 Not not I haven't met the top people. I haven't met the Yellen's and the Powell's 40:49.290 --> 40:51.550 And the mark Carney. Have you met the really fat one? 40:52.670 --> 40:57.030 Uh me or gustin castings or whatever you called the guy from the bis 40:57.910 --> 41:00.730 I've I've met people one to two levels down 41:01.430 --> 41:01.750 right 41:02.790 --> 41:03.330 but 41:03.990 --> 41:06.410 Even talking with them and I've met a lot of politicians 41:07.090 --> 41:07.630 including 41:08.270 --> 41:14.390 Uh, you know MPs including, you know congressmen and senators in the us and and around the world as well 41:15.010 --> 41:15.550 and 41:16.260 --> 41:17.290 in my experience 41:18.130 --> 41:20.570 These aren't masterminds 41:20.570 --> 41:24.490 That are you know plotting and scheming what they are as operators 41:25.370 --> 41:27.250 They're the people that have figured out 41:27.750 --> 41:29.290 how to play the system 41:30.130 --> 41:32.830 So they don't really understand how the systems put together 41:32.830 --> 41:36.450 They don't think any more than if you have a leech 41:36.450 --> 41:41.250 Brighting into your skin and sucking your blood and then there's a thousand of his brothers 41:41.790 --> 41:45.450 Trying to do the same thing. Well, each isn't really thinking we're going to suck him dry 41:45.450 --> 41:47.290 And he's going to be dead and then where are we going to be? 41:47.650 --> 41:49.930 They don't they don't obviously these just don't think 41:50.410 --> 41:52.570 These are people that have figured out how to operate 41:53.130 --> 41:57.590 You know, the politicians have figured out how to blah blah blah to get elected 41:57.590 --> 42:03.330 How to look at suit and all that but the the central bankers are bureaucrats and 42:03.850 --> 42:06.850 You know, they've figured out how to how to have a career. So in the u.s 42:06.850 --> 42:08.450 There's kind of this revolving 42:08.890 --> 42:12.470 You know door and so and you know, it's almost like a board game 42:12.470 --> 42:18.550 I remember there's a board game called careers or something back when I was a kid in the 1970s and um 42:19.130 --> 42:21.530 You know for the for the people in the central bank 42:22.090 --> 42:24.150 You know, they go to academia to get prestige 42:24.830 --> 42:28.650 And maybe you know a Nobel Prize or something in economics 42:29.250 --> 42:33.430 They go into government to get power and they go to a big investment bank to get rich 42:33.890 --> 42:39.850 And and the key is to rotate around just the right timing and just the right amount of time in each of these to end up with 42:39.850 --> 42:41.570 the Nobel Prize and 42:42.170 --> 42:42.430 the 42:43.490 --> 42:46.130 Uh, the top spot, you know, chairman of the fed 42:46.630 --> 42:48.150 Uh, professor emeritus 42:48.150 --> 42:51.990 Uh, you know and and have a couple hundred million dollars 42:52.610 --> 42:58.710 And um, you know, not all of them achieve that but that's kind of the so so they learn how to operate that system 42:59.260 --> 43:05.630 How to write the things that um, you get some popular. I'll use the example of paul vocer 43:06.310 --> 43:12.450 Most people don't realize paul vocer's doctoral dissertation was about gold and real bills 43:13.570 --> 43:14.650 and um 43:15.350 --> 43:19.550 Somebody I know, you know, ask was asking about it and he's like, oh that that's a situation 43:19.550 --> 43:21.730 I haven't thought about that and you know 40 50 years 43:22.250 --> 43:27.530 And it was pretty clear that it was like, yeah at that time that you have to write the things to get 43:28.090 --> 43:31.070 You know to get the dissertation committed to say yes 43:31.070 --> 43:36.830 Stamp you and then you go on your career. He didn't really care about it. He didn't really believe in it necessarily 43:37.530 --> 43:42.270 And so, you know, I think like a lot of these people are somewhat cynical, but they're not 43:42.910 --> 43:48.170 They're not intellectual powerhouses. They're not masterminds of anything the politicians that I've seen 43:48.830 --> 43:52.730 and I did a lot of uh, you know the period I'd say 20 43:53.470 --> 43:56.930 uh, 2012 2011 to 2018 or 2019 43:57.530 --> 44:03.870 I did a lot of work at the state government level some at the federal and some internationally like in the uk and 44:03.870 --> 44:06.570 And other places, you know meeting with legislators 44:07.570 --> 44:09.470 testifying on behalf of various gold 44:10.090 --> 44:11.770 You know bills laws, whatever 44:12.750 --> 44:16.470 Um, and I got a chance to see a lot of these legislators in action 44:17.130 --> 44:24.490 And again, I saw some people that were cunning. I saw people that you know how to manipulate how to use words as 44:25.230 --> 44:25.930 You know levers 44:28.250 --> 44:34.270 Yeah, but I I didn't I haven't met if there's any masterminds there. I haven't met any of them 44:34.930 --> 44:39.650 Um, and I I think they're I think there aren't I mean iron man uses this analogy of 44:40.070 --> 44:45.730 You know, you see evil in the world and you think there's an evil giant behind all of it and you finally get to the 44:46.170 --> 44:50.930 You know, uh, you finally get to the point. We're going to discover the evil and you pull away the curtain or whatever 44:50.930 --> 44:53.190 And what you see is a nest of cockroaches 44:53.770 --> 44:58.650 There's not like one giant. There's just like a thousand little mindless insects 44:59.170 --> 45:00.550 feeding on the spoils 45:01.190 --> 45:06.610 That you know, the table is tipped over the food and the beers and the carpet and they're just eating away 45:06.610 --> 45:12.690 They weren't even capable of tipping the table over let alone have producing all that wealth in the first place 45:12.690 --> 45:13.910 They're just feeding on it 45:14.790 --> 45:16.390 Have you ever been 45:17.110 --> 45:18.150 bitten by a leech 45:18.730 --> 45:19.610 I have not 45:20.350 --> 45:23.810 Well, it's quite interesting. Um, I went 45:24.490 --> 45:28.310 On holiday with my wife once to um, uh, Malaysia 45:29.170 --> 45:33.550 And we went on this forest walk which included a kind of 45:34.570 --> 45:38.370 A bit where you go and refresh yourself in the cooling mountain stream 45:39.110 --> 45:40.770 or something and 45:41.570 --> 45:46.670 When we got back to our bedroom, we changed out of our sweaty jungle gear 45:47.370 --> 45:48.010 and 45:48.550 --> 45:49.710 my wife's 45:49.710 --> 45:51.210 sock was absolutely 45:52.590 --> 45:57.470 drenched with with blood it was just like sticky with blood and 45:58.130 --> 46:01.030 You don't feel anything because they because they inject this 46:01.030 --> 46:01.810 um 46:01.810 --> 46:03.630 anaesthetic, right? 46:04.470 --> 46:09.210 Um, but when they burst, it's really it's really pretty messy. I was just thinking about 46:10.130 --> 46:13.610 Augustine castans if you were to be burst like a leech 46:14.140 --> 46:17.630 It would be there'd be a lot of a lot of gore 46:18.410 --> 46:26.390 But no, I like your analogy about about the leeches and and and and and cockroaches. Do you think 46:27.110 --> 46:32.210 I read a piece today, um on substack really quite interesting about 46:33.030 --> 46:33.550 um 46:34.530 --> 46:36.390 It was about how 46:37.290 --> 46:37.970 some 46:39.030 --> 46:39.710 bankers 46:40.550 --> 46:42.950 Including the guy in charge of the polish 46:43.830 --> 46:44.170 bank 46:45.010 --> 46:52.470 Have worked out that gold is their only way out of this mess and that poland has been massively buying up gold 46:52.470 --> 46:56.770 And apparently the magic figure. Have you heard this one is 46:57.550 --> 47:04.430 4% of you need four 4% of of um the ratio 4% of ggp in gold 47:05.430 --> 47:06.030 um 47:06.570 --> 47:11.590 I think france and germany have got about 4% the equivalent of 4% of their ggp in gold 47:12.090 --> 47:20.590 The uk is currently 1% because gordon brown should be so good for gordon brown. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um 47:21.350 --> 47:28.770 Do you I mean is this plausible that there could be a kind of we could be going back to a gold based system or 47:28.770 --> 47:31.290 I don't think you know 47:31.770 --> 47:36.550 You know twitter or whatever. I always say, you know, yeah, we have to go to gold, but ain't nobody want that 47:37.150 --> 47:40.930 If it's all people go to the same universities, whether it's oxbridge 47:41.510 --> 47:42.390 Harvard mit 47:44.010 --> 47:44.930 They're all evil 47:47.010 --> 47:47.890 well, they're 47:48.810 --> 47:51.250 Some of them definitely are a lot of them are just 47:52.390 --> 47:55.110 Confused they learned what they learn. They think what they think 47:55.770 --> 47:57.450 You know, but they all come from the same 47:58.330 --> 48:02.890 Uh, you know university system and they learn the same ideas which is kanesianism 48:04.230 --> 48:05.030 and um 48:05.630 --> 48:06.730 You know, I 48:07.590 --> 48:10.130 I can tell you this and without naming any names 48:10.810 --> 48:12.010 I've met with 48:12.610 --> 48:13.010 legislators 48:14.230 --> 48:15.630 who have introduced 48:16.730 --> 48:21.030 Let's introduce a bill that passed and became law, you know, something related to gold 48:21.910 --> 48:22.350 and 48:22.990 --> 48:24.090 You know when I read 48:24.970 --> 48:30.390 What, you know, the libertarian press and the gold press, right about the modus and fire 48:30.390 --> 48:34.210 You know nullify the fed and fire shot across the feds bound all these things 48:34.690 --> 48:36.190 And I was in the meeting 48:36.730 --> 48:40.170 With the person who was candidly it was one-on-one in his office 48:40.770 --> 48:42.970 You know candidly telling me what his motives were 48:43.630 --> 48:46.710 And I'm like I was there everything they're saying 48:47.490 --> 48:48.690 It isn't true 48:49.190 --> 48:50.590 he was thinking about 48:51.090 --> 48:57.310 real estate utilization and and driving jobs and you know something like that and not all about the gold standard not about the fed 48:58.150 --> 48:58.590 um 48:59.250 --> 49:00.030 and so 49:00.790 --> 49:01.230 I 49:01.970 --> 49:02.910 I would bet 49:03.790 --> 49:06.550 You know, and I don't know the the the polish central bank 49:07.130 --> 49:12.170 Guys though, you know, it could be it could be an exception. I've been a few central bankers who are definitely gold people 49:13.030 --> 49:15.010 um, but the ones I have met 49:15.510 --> 49:15.990 they 49:16.950 --> 49:21.230 Can't really express. I mean their their colleagues know they're into gold but which is fine 49:21.730 --> 49:25.310 But they can't really express the gold thesis and any kind of policy 49:25.950 --> 49:28.310 Uh, even conversation because it's just not 49:29.290 --> 49:32.790 You know, it's just not acceptable. It's outside the overton window 49:33.650 --> 49:34.130 um 49:34.650 --> 49:38.770 So the the polls been on massive got a massive gold buying spree there. You know that 49:39.370 --> 49:42.130 Yeah, I mean there's a lot of central banks. Obviously that have bought some gold 49:43.330 --> 49:45.510 But I think I think their reasons 49:46.890 --> 49:48.010 Some of it is 49:48.010 --> 49:52.310 Okay, what if we end up locked out of the u.s. Dollar system and the swift system? 49:52.590 --> 49:54.330 It'll give us something we can spend 49:55.050 --> 49:58.510 Part of it is I just think good old-fashioned price going up 49:58.970 --> 50:02.370 Right. So we have liabilities may have assets if assets go up 50:02.370 --> 50:07.190 We have you know free capital on the balance sheet which allows us to get more liabilities 50:08.090 --> 50:08.510 um 50:09.130 --> 50:12.690 So I have a funny feeling that I mean without knowing that particular guy 50:12.970 --> 50:16.050 In the cases where I have had conversations 50:16.810 --> 50:17.730 There isn't I mean 50:18.810 --> 50:20.630 Here's the kind of ironic contrast 50:21.290 --> 50:23.570 I think in many parts of the world 50:24.290 --> 50:28.070 There is a desperate flailing about looking for an alternative to the dollar 50:29.210 --> 50:32.490 Um, but within the fiat currency system, there is no alternative 50:32.490 --> 50:37.330 There's no other currency that remotely remotely comes close to the dollar. So they're stuck with it 50:37.890 --> 50:41.390 And you know, it's a love hate relationship and the more the u.s 50:41.390 --> 50:45.530 Does things that aggravates the rest of the world the more people look for alternatives 50:46.350 --> 50:46.870 um 50:47.570 --> 50:47.830 but 50:48.430 --> 50:50.470 So they really want to see gold come back 50:51.090 --> 50:52.370 as as money 50:53.130 --> 50:54.010 I don't think so 50:54.010 --> 50:58.510 So they think that maybe they'll use gold for settlement between governments 50:59.250 --> 51:00.630 You know for international trade 51:01.290 --> 51:02.730 I think some of them are thinking that 51:03.870 --> 51:08.350 But the good the good news in all this right everything I've said so far is they're pretty bleak 51:08.350 --> 51:13.630 Yeah, we've got any good news in any of this conversation so far. The good news is that 51:14.890 --> 51:19.490 When gold starts to be used in settlement, that's the first step 51:20.090 --> 51:21.970 And to quote gandalf from lord of the rings 51:22.470 --> 51:25.430 Things have now been set in motion that cannot be undone 51:26.030 --> 51:29.330 That will lead to the next thing or the next thing the next thing 51:30.050 --> 51:31.890 Not because that there's a mastermind 51:32.650 --> 51:34.270 scripting it but because 51:34.970 --> 51:38.010 Things have an inexorable path water flows downhill 51:38.630 --> 51:41.450 And so you'll end up with more and more use of gold 51:41.990 --> 51:43.430 in a variety of ways 51:44.150 --> 51:45.270 and um 51:45.870 --> 51:50.130 Obviously we monetary metals want to be there with solutions to facilitate all this 51:50.890 --> 51:51.970 And yeah 51:52.590 --> 51:56.550 I was going to ask you this because I think when we first spoke 51:57.090 --> 51:59.410 It was pretty near the beginning of monetary metals 51:59.950 --> 52:00.350 um 52:00.970 --> 52:03.690 I mean has it has it worked for you has your idea worked? 52:04.570 --> 52:05.690 Yeah, that's the 52:06.430 --> 52:12.030 Everyone's in a while. I'm almost kind of amazed like holy cow. You know it worked because the idea was right 52:12.030 --> 52:17.330 So there's an economic idea that interest interest rate is a regulator of flow in a gold standard 52:17.750 --> 52:20.850 The lower the interest rate the more the gold tends to leave the market 52:20.850 --> 52:23.590 Higher the interest rates and more the gold is pulled into the market 52:24.870 --> 52:30.890 Okay, economic idea and um, but the business thesis was if we are for interest on gold 52:31.330 --> 52:32.990 People will bring their gold into positive 52:34.270 --> 52:39.370 And um, that's one of those entrepreneurial ideas that you have to test. I mean, there's no 52:39.990 --> 52:42.170 Market research you could do. There's no poll 52:42.710 --> 52:46.970 You know you gardeners and have any data on the demand for gold yield because there isn't you know 52:46.970 --> 52:49.230 At that time wasn't any you have to go do it 52:49.970 --> 52:55.510 And uh, we did it and absolutely it's been an exponential growth curve since 2016 52:56.180 --> 52:57.650 And it continues on the same 52:58.180 --> 53:00.210 On the same curve, you know to this day 53:00.910 --> 53:03.470 Well, I'm I'm happy for you. I I mean I 53:03.470 --> 53:08.310 I thought when I first met you, you know, eccentric eccentric guy 53:08.870 --> 53:12.510 You told me the great story about how you sold your first business 53:13.010 --> 53:14.570 By the skin of your teeth 53:14.570 --> 53:20.810 Okay, I mean this could be a completely different story, couldn't it if you hadn't been able to sell it before the the old buyer 53:22.110 --> 53:23.270 Went bust or whatever 53:25.250 --> 53:27.090 I would have had to hold it another 53:27.670 --> 53:33.790 You know three or four years that you know the market for early stage companies to sell reopened in 53:34.410 --> 53:37.410 I don't know 2012 2013 and you know 53:38.070 --> 53:40.070 But yeah, I would have been it would have been a tough slog 53:40.550 --> 53:45.030 But without without prying too much. I mean, have you made loads of money from your you your new venture? 53:45.030 --> 53:48.910 Was it going going really well? Yeah, this is going really good. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's good 53:48.910 --> 53:53.170 I'm happy for you. I like I like I like a bit of you know a bit of good news and success 53:53.710 --> 53:54.110 um 53:54.890 --> 53:55.290 and 53:55.930 --> 53:57.790 It's funny because I've I've been 53:58.650 --> 54:00.210 Advertising you on my 54:00.950 --> 54:03.050 podcast mainly. I mean, I'll be honest 54:03.550 --> 54:08.050 I mean, I I I do like the product, but it's mainly because I'm just I'm just so damn lazy 54:08.050 --> 54:09.670 I haven't I haven't been 54:10.590 --> 54:13.770 I can't be bothered to go to the effort of of of 54:13.770 --> 54:18.150 Going looking around for for new people to put adverts on and there's a slot where I have an advert 54:18.150 --> 54:23.430 And I just well, you've probably noticed I hadn't changed the advert for ages. So I just thought yeah 54:23.970 --> 54:30.350 Anyway, somebody somebody said to me the other day. Why are you advertising this company monetary metals because isn't this 54:30.930 --> 54:36.070 Oh, I can't remember they were concerned about it being paper gold or something or you know not not not 54:38.050 --> 54:39.810 Just dangerous to invest in 54:40.450 --> 54:41.310 and I said 54:41.890 --> 54:46.890 Well, as far as I understand that the business model and I've talked to Keith a couple of times about this at least 54:47.390 --> 54:50.570 It does make sense. But just just briefly 54:51.770 --> 54:55.170 Remind people how it is that you are able to pay 54:55.790 --> 54:59.630 interest on gold and when they when they when they invest or 54:59.630 --> 55:01.370 in in monetary metals 55:02.550 --> 55:09.190 That the the gold that or the silver that they're investing in I mean it's there, isn't it? 55:09.210 --> 55:11.110 It's it's not it's not like paper gold 55:11.110 --> 55:12.710 It's we're a conventional 55:13.370 --> 55:15.890 Part of it is a conventional gold storage program 55:16.490 --> 55:20.170 Not too dissimilar from any of the others that have been around for you know, 25 years 55:20.730 --> 55:25.950 You know you open a account, you know, you wire us some funds buy gold gold sitting in your account 55:26.570 --> 55:28.390 You know if you want to liquidate it tomorrow 55:28.390 --> 55:33.090 I mean there's no point to it, but you could liquidate it tomorrow. We send you the funds back or you can redeem it in metal 55:33.090 --> 55:38.570 I think a lot of them don't do that or they make it expensive or difficult, but we'll redeem you in metals 55:38.570 --> 55:42.330 Okay, I want bars, you know sent to my address and we'll do that 55:42.970 --> 55:46.890 But the real point of it. I mean, we're not really a bullion dealer 55:47.670 --> 55:49.850 Not efficient setup to do that 55:50.590 --> 55:50.990 um 55:51.510 --> 55:56.430 The real point of the whole thing is we unlike any other gold storage program 55:56.430 --> 56:01.790 We will present to you a series of opportunities to put your metal out to work 56:02.770 --> 56:06.670 And um, and so doing you know get an interest rate or get a yield on it 56:06.670 --> 56:14.170 And so leasing at its heart is very simple. You walk into a jewelry store, you know here in in dubai, let's say 56:14.170 --> 56:15.130 I'm in dubai at the moment 56:15.850 --> 56:18.510 And um, you know jewelry is not like in the west 56:19.070 --> 56:22.890 Where it's about fine art and it's very fine and very delicate and 56:23.790 --> 56:29.270 You know four grams of gold is selling for seventeen thousand dollars at some, you know designer 56:30.070 --> 56:31.470 Um, you know jeweler 56:31.950 --> 56:33.310 It's sold by weight here 56:33.850 --> 56:36.870 The store will often have a screen displaying the current gold price 56:36.870 --> 56:40.950 And then they'll charge what they call a making charge, you know, essentially a markup or a premium 56:41.530 --> 56:46.110 Which would be, you know, two percent or five percent or something like that and they're buying it by weight 56:46.670 --> 56:50.470 And so I always laugh when I talk to you know, the analyst types 56:50.470 --> 56:55.070 That talk about where there's investment demand versus jewelry demand in this part of the world 56:55.590 --> 56:57.590 Investment jewelry is investment demand 56:57.590 --> 57:02.170 It's a whole they're putting money around their neck on a necklace. That's that simple 57:02.750 --> 57:07.510 So jewelry store here and this is high purity stuff 21 to 22 carat generally 57:08.130 --> 57:08.730 um 57:09.430 --> 57:10.430 depending on the culture 57:11.830 --> 57:12.430 and 57:13.450 --> 57:16.170 That jewelry store will have 57:16.790 --> 57:19.210 50 or more kilos of gold in it 57:20.470 --> 57:23.750 There's nothing like if you walk into a jewelry store on the high street in london 57:24.470 --> 57:27.970 There'd be nowhere near that much gold. It's fine. It's delicate. It's hollow 57:27.970 --> 57:30.270 The weight of the gold just isn't that much 57:30.790 --> 57:36.330 But here 50 kilos now today's prices 50 kilos is 57:38.250 --> 57:41.370 What is that? I don't know eight nine million dollars 57:42.770 --> 57:48.990 Right, I mean gold prices got up so much that so that's we find you know, and then, you know, any of these bigger companies 57:48.990 --> 57:51.290 They have hundreds of showrooms 57:51.770 --> 57:52.250 globally 57:53.010 --> 57:59.450 You know has to be financed somehow. I mean nobody has that you know change in the pocket or you know between the 57:59.450 --> 58:02.450 Cushions and the sofa that has to be financed 58:03.010 --> 58:08.350 And conventional finances you go to the bank and you borrow and you pledge the gold is collateral and you borrow 58:08.890 --> 58:11.830 You know, eight nine million dollars. The problem is what the gold price drops 58:12.370 --> 58:16.510 You still owe eight or nine million dollars, but now you have a seven million dollar asset 58:16.510 --> 58:18.430 You're bankrupt. You're insolvent 58:18.950 --> 58:21.310 So what they do is they borrow 10 or 12 million 58:21.310 --> 58:27.550 They buy eight or nine million worth of of gold and they put the rest in a margin account to hedge 58:28.110 --> 58:29.650 Which means shorting gold futures 58:30.370 --> 58:32.030 Now if the gold price rises 58:32.030 --> 58:34.590 You get a margin call. It's just a mess 58:35.250 --> 58:40.370 And you've given how much the gold price has risen. These guys are sick and tired of all the margin calls 58:41.450 --> 58:43.890 So what we do is we lease the metal 58:44.490 --> 58:48.370 We will you know, so we have the investors metal sitting in the vault 58:48.370 --> 58:54.210 We present the deal to the investors and say, okay, you know, here's this jeweler and so we've done 58:55.050 --> 59:01.250 We're about to do a a couple of showrooms for an Indian jewelry brand called Kalyan in the uk 59:02.110 --> 59:04.810 One's in Leicester and the other one. I'm not sure where it is 59:05.690 --> 59:06.570 And um 59:06.570 --> 59:11.550 We say, okay, you know, here's the deal and here's uh, you know, the interest rate here's the company whatever 59:11.550 --> 59:14.450 The investors say yes, then we have 59:15.070 --> 59:17.590 You know, we have let's say let's say that we're doing one showroom 59:17.590 --> 59:23.050 We have 50 kgs of gold in the vault. They have 50 kgs. Actually, there's a haircut 59:23.050 --> 59:27.590 They have to have 55 or 60 kgs of metal in the store. Okay, we're gonna swap 59:27.590 --> 59:33.530 So now the investors own the inventory in the store and the jeweler owns the metal in the vault 59:34.030 --> 59:37.310 Then we will liquidate the metal in the vault. They want the cash, obviously 59:37.310 --> 59:44.050 Wire than the cash and the investors own earrings and the necklaces and the rings and and all that in the store 59:44.690 --> 59:46.630 Every day the jeweler sells a little bit 59:46.630 --> 59:49.110 But that's why there's one of the reasons why there's a haircut 59:49.110 --> 59:55.150 So the inventory level never goes below the 50 kgs every day. They sell a little bit every day 59:55.150 --> 01:00:01.470 They buy more inventory from their suppliers. There's always at all times you walk in that store. It's always very well stocked 01:00:02.110 --> 01:00:05.370 um, and so they're paying for the privilege of 01:00:06.150 --> 01:00:08.010 Of having the capital to stock their store 01:00:08.750 --> 01:00:13.470 That's how the investors get paid. I mean, we make a we make a spread we make a fee on it 01:00:13.470 --> 01:00:16.870 investors are getting paid the jeweler's happy to pay because 01:00:17.450 --> 01:00:20.090 That's how they fill the showroom with inventory 01:00:20.970 --> 01:00:21.490 and 01:00:22.170 --> 01:00:22.750 has I mean 01:00:23.370 --> 01:00:25.370 As I understand it particularly with silver 01:00:26.010 --> 01:00:28.390 the sort of weird situation that these 01:00:28.990 --> 01:00:31.190 extraordinary price rises have created 01:00:32.370 --> 01:00:37.190 A certain amount of chaos in the silver buying and selling markets. Is that right? 01:00:37.990 --> 01:00:40.830 There's some really perverse things that have happened in silver 01:00:41.770 --> 01:00:42.690 and um 01:00:43.330 --> 01:00:47.430 You know and in the precious metals markets the primary suppliers of 01:00:47.430 --> 01:00:51.850 The products that everybody wants are the refiners. I mean the mines produce it 01:00:51.850 --> 01:00:57.910 But nobody wants to buy the mine the mine raw material. Uh, it's called doray. It's not pure 01:00:58.390 --> 01:01:03.070 I mean it might be 90 purity and it has all kinds of kind of lead in it could have mercury whatever 01:01:03.810 --> 01:01:07.730 Um, so it goes through refiner to be refined into bullion grade metal 01:01:09.630 --> 01:01:11.290 The silver refiners 01:01:11.750 --> 01:01:14.210 The cost of hedging let's say last october 01:01:14.790 --> 01:01:17.530 It was two dollars and a 15 cents an ounce to hedge 01:01:18.910 --> 01:01:21.210 Refining margins are nowhere near two dollars the silver 01:01:21.890 --> 01:01:26.070 Maybe today at today's silver prices. Maybe they are but at that time silver was a lot cheaper 01:01:26.070 --> 01:01:28.370 They don't make anywhere near them. So it was unhingible 01:01:28.850 --> 01:01:34.390 So the refiners and these are so there's a there's a scarcity of silver which causes backwardition 01:01:34.390 --> 01:01:37.410 Which causes the hedging cost to go, you know through the roof 01:01:38.550 --> 01:01:39.430 so, um 01:01:39.950 --> 01:01:43.110 The primary producers are saying we don't want to buy any more feedstock 01:01:43.570 --> 01:01:45.850 Because we can't afford you can't hedge it 01:01:46.430 --> 01:01:50.090 So that slows down or halts the delivery of metal to the market 01:01:50.090 --> 01:01:52.470 That would be the thing that would alleviate the shortage 01:01:52.470 --> 01:01:55.550 And they can't because of the perverse 01:01:55.550 --> 01:01:57.390 incentives of this 01:01:57.390 --> 01:01:59.870 Keynesian system going off the rails essentially 01:02:00.660 --> 01:02:07.050 Uh, the backwardation prevents them from operating. It you know puts a spanner in in the gears 01:02:08.010 --> 01:02:08.630 um 01:02:09.650 --> 01:02:12.430 So the silver refiners 01:02:13.650 --> 01:02:21.630 Uh, they're they're the cause of the blockage right now of the lack of no that was october and you know that subsided and 01:02:22.290 --> 01:02:24.070 But yeah, I mean generally in silver 01:02:24.670 --> 01:02:27.030 It's hard to to hedge. It's hard to 01:02:27.610 --> 01:02:31.670 You know in the london market they call it leasing. That's a different product from what we do but 01:02:31.670 --> 01:02:33.730 It's hard to lease. It's 01:02:33.730 --> 01:02:39.950 Volatile is how i'm the price is volatile, but you know hedging costs and and the lease will be what do you mean by hedging? 01:02:40.850 --> 01:02:42.190 so if you 01:02:42.950 --> 01:02:47.110 Let's say you're a refiner and you know, you have a load of 01:02:47.650 --> 01:02:48.170 um 01:02:48.910 --> 01:02:50.710 you know 50 tons of 01:02:50.710 --> 01:02:57.610 Some combination of scrap silver people's old silverware and tea services and candelabra and whatever 01:02:58.210 --> 01:03:01.710 And you know your job is to melt that down and turn it into 01:03:02.330 --> 01:03:07.770 You know three nines or four nines silver, you know sterling is 925 right 92 and a half percent pure 01:03:08.270 --> 01:03:10.690 That was the standard for centuries for 01:03:11.250 --> 01:03:13.790 You know dinnerware and tableware and all that 01:03:14.470 --> 01:03:16.570 Um, so you say you need to melt that down 01:03:17.130 --> 01:03:22.010 You can't go and buy today the silver price is what 120 dollars and you buy 01:03:22.590 --> 01:03:25.370 You know 50 tons of silver at 120 dollars 01:03:26.490 --> 01:03:31.990 You can't you can't take that risk. What if the price drops to 100 dollars to do that in a new york minute? 01:03:33.190 --> 01:03:36.450 You you'd be a bankrupt and you'd lose so much money to be dead 01:03:36.930 --> 01:03:40.630 So you have to hedge it you have to go into the futures market or some market 01:03:41.270 --> 01:03:41.670 and 01:03:42.190 --> 01:03:45.590 Short silver so that if the silver price goes down 01:03:45.590 --> 01:03:49.030 Your short is adding just as much cash as the metal is losing 01:03:49.740 --> 01:03:51.770 So that you you're not neutral to the price 01:03:53.250 --> 01:03:54.430 Otherwise it's too risky 01:03:55.430 --> 01:03:55.930 um 01:03:56.430 --> 01:04:02.110 And that's how everybody who deals in metal the larger ones. I mean there could be really small coin dealers that don't hedge 01:04:02.760 --> 01:04:06.850 But anybody who's whose larger scale, especially if they're using finance 01:04:07.450 --> 01:04:09.790 They have to hedge they have to be neutral to the price 01:04:09.790 --> 01:04:13.150 Or otherwise they're taking a risk of bankruptcy if the price drops 01:04:13.870 --> 01:04:15.490 And the more the price rises 01:04:15.950 --> 01:04:21.410 You get that parabola which certainly has occurred in silver arguably even in gold to a lesser degree 01:04:22.070 --> 01:04:28.050 You know when that happens there's a risk of you know, you wake up and silver is minus 27 dollars 01:04:28.710 --> 01:04:31.010 I'm not saying that's gonna happen, but it could 01:04:31.610 --> 01:04:36.670 And so would you bet your entire business? I mean your family's been in the silver refinery business for generations 01:04:36.850 --> 01:04:40.210 Do you want to be the idiot who lost it all in one price move? 01:04:40.730 --> 01:04:43.650 Over a weekend a monday morning you wake up the bankruptcy 01:04:44.890 --> 01:04:47.010 Nobody wants to be in that in that position 01:04:48.810 --> 01:04:50.410 That's really interesting 01:04:51.050 --> 01:04:56.790 So that explains why people have still despite this insanely rising market 01:04:57.510 --> 01:05:00.490 People have still got these short positions in silver 01:05:01.050 --> 01:05:01.970 as a hedge 01:05:02.530 --> 01:05:05.630 Well, just say anybody who has a physical metal 01:05:06.530 --> 01:05:08.790 Inventory or work in progress or anything like that 01:05:09.230 --> 01:05:10.730 You know has got a hedge 01:05:11.250 --> 01:05:12.430 And so yeah, they are 01:05:12.930 --> 01:05:17.250 One of the groups that use the futures market say, you know future futures market users. Absolutely 01:05:18.530 --> 01:05:22.910 And what does it mean when there's a silver squeeze? Are we are we having a silver squeeze now? 01:05:24.290 --> 01:05:24.730 um 01:05:26.010 --> 01:05:27.490 I'm not sure I would say that 01:05:28.490 --> 01:05:28.930 um 01:05:29.570 --> 01:05:34.950 You know squeeze the same thing that happened in the stock if a lot of people are short not to have I mean the hedgers 01:05:36.170 --> 01:05:41.650 Wouldn't really be squeezed in the same way, but people can also use futures to speculate either long or short 01:05:42.250 --> 01:05:44.810 And because futures give you 20 to 1 leverage 01:05:45.270 --> 01:05:46.790 So if you want to make a price bet 01:05:46.790 --> 01:05:50.090 Doesn't take that much capital to make a very big bet if you want to 01:05:50.930 --> 01:05:53.350 So, you know when a lot of people 01:05:53.770 --> 01:05:58.510 Especially if something's falling, you know when something is rising everybody wants to bet on the long side 01:05:58.510 --> 01:05:59.770 Because they want to bet it's going to go out further 01:06:01.310 --> 01:06:04.390 When something's falling, they want to bet it's going to go down. So they short it 01:06:04.870 --> 01:06:09.390 If you'll get it goes down and down when the more it goes down more people are shorting it at some point 01:06:09.390 --> 01:06:13.970 It doesn't take that much buying and the short sellers are heads of stop loss orders 01:06:15.110 --> 01:06:20.350 And then so that causes the price to rise and the next guy hits his stop loss and that causes the price to rise 01:06:20.350 --> 01:06:22.730 And so you can destroy all the short positions 01:06:22.730 --> 01:06:26.550 The only way to close the short position is to buy buy to close 01:06:27.350 --> 01:06:30.370 So all that short has pushed it down from here to here 01:06:30.370 --> 01:06:35.030 And then the squeeze will push it from here right back here or maybe you know, maybe beyond 01:06:36.330 --> 01:06:36.730 So 01:06:37.430 --> 01:06:39.430 You know playing with leverage is a dangerous 01:06:40.330 --> 01:06:43.890 You know if you just own metal and you're stacking there's no danger to it, right? 01:06:44.030 --> 01:06:48.710 So even if you bought silver at 120 bucks and then hypothetically drops to 60 01:06:49.590 --> 01:06:52.970 Okay, you may not be happy about it, but it's not going to take food off the table 01:06:52.970 --> 01:06:56.930 It's not going to threaten, you know your your solvency, right? 01:06:57.770 --> 01:06:59.330 If you do that with leverage 01:07:00.350 --> 01:07:01.510 I mean you can be ruined 01:07:03.050 --> 01:07:06.770 Yeah, so it's dangerous stuff and we generally say, you know 01:07:07.290 --> 01:07:11.750 Don't play with leverage unless you really know what you're doing unless you're really going to be on it monitoring it 01:07:12.190 --> 01:07:14.230 Being awake at night looking at your position 01:07:14.730 --> 01:07:17.730 Because some you know your your nighttime is staying somewhere else 01:07:18.330 --> 01:07:22.030 And somebody's trading and the price could move and then even you're in deep trouble 01:07:24.050 --> 01:07:24.530 Yes 01:07:25.070 --> 01:07:26.330 Yes, I mean 01:07:27.130 --> 01:07:29.630 I'm presuming there's going to be a correction at some point 01:07:30.730 --> 01:07:33.230 You would think you know, there would have to be 01:07:34.230 --> 01:07:34.710 um 01:07:34.710 --> 01:07:38.390 Now what I can tell you is that if I look at the gold basis chart 01:07:38.990 --> 01:07:43.750 The gold basis has been pretty steady as the price has been rising a lot 01:07:44.370 --> 01:07:49.810 Which means that the demand for metals has been there all you know, it's not just people buying futures 01:07:50.610 --> 01:07:52.110 It's it's people buying metal 01:07:53.410 --> 01:07:54.310 and silver 01:07:55.130 --> 01:07:58.270 You know the basis was holding steady until the last 01:07:59.210 --> 01:08:00.490 I don't know maybe $15 01:08:02.010 --> 01:08:06.270 $20 at that point the basis began rising. So now it's people piling into futures 01:08:06.770 --> 01:08:11.370 Which pushes the price up further and then that's the setup for 01:08:12.190 --> 01:08:13.210 You know the correction 01:08:13.210 --> 01:08:17.850 So you look at a price even if the fundamentals are strong, which I think they are 01:08:18.570 --> 01:08:19.050 um 01:08:19.590 --> 01:08:25.330 In the macro, you know background drop and the geopolitical backdrop, you know, it is what it is 01:08:25.870 --> 01:08:32.050 You know, all the people that were buying this story or buying this narrative at 40 bucks, obviously absolutely right 01:08:32.690 --> 01:08:37.210 And then the narrative and the story remain is it still right to buy at $120? 01:08:38.490 --> 01:08:43.310 Arguably maybe yeah, but you know, there's a much greater risk of a big correction 01:08:44.090 --> 01:08:46.590 You know given the the parable run that we've had 01:08:47.990 --> 01:08:48.590 Yes 01:08:49.410 --> 01:08:50.550 but I was 01:08:51.310 --> 01:08:53.770 I was like hunting with this guy 01:08:54.430 --> 01:08:56.990 This week an old an old English 01:08:57.770 --> 01:08:58.370 squire 01:08:59.050 --> 01:09:02.730 And I was just chatting as you do about stuff and I was talking about 01:09:03.590 --> 01:09:04.190 silver 01:09:05.250 --> 01:09:10.970 And he was completely unaware of anything that had been happening in the silver markets 01:09:11.710 --> 01:09:16.410 And I was thinking that that that guy is probably more representative of the world than 01:09:16.590 --> 01:09:18.850 I mean, this is a guy from from who 01:09:19.390 --> 01:09:21.790 Probably had money in his and his family and stuff 01:09:22.550 --> 01:09:25.090 But I'm sure that guy's more representative of the world than 01:09:25.930 --> 01:09:26.890 Me nutcase 01:09:26.890 --> 01:09:29.130 chatting about silver Western world 01:09:29.770 --> 01:09:30.970 You need to go to India 01:09:31.630 --> 01:09:36.450 There's a population of 1.4 billion people and all of them are screaming mad for gold 01:09:37.090 --> 01:09:38.050 I mean, yeah 01:09:38.590 --> 01:09:40.230 You have that untouchable guy 01:09:40.230 --> 01:09:45.970 Who's cleaning the poop out of the streets and he's being paid a minimum wage of two dollars a day, right? 01:09:46.630 --> 01:09:53.790 And he will have some tiny little fleck of gold that he saved up to buy and be super proud of it and want more 01:09:54.470 --> 01:09:55.890 Right you go to Turkey 01:09:56.470 --> 01:09:58.610 So the Turkish banking system offers 01:09:59.150 --> 01:10:03.410 Gold denominator bank accounts like it's a real bank account with an i-band you could pay 01:10:03.410 --> 01:10:06.010 You know send in receive gold the way you would 01:10:06.010 --> 01:10:07.230 You know cash 01:10:07.850 --> 01:10:14.190 There's a population of 85 million people in turkey. There's 120 million gold bank accounts 01:10:14.910 --> 01:10:15.430 in turkey 01:10:16.310 --> 01:10:19.690 And people don't really trust the banking system all that much there 01:10:19.690 --> 01:10:22.010 That's not the preferred way of owning gold 01:10:22.670 --> 01:10:28.610 And yet there's more than one gold bank account for capita. It's kind of like guns in the us 01:10:29.330 --> 01:10:33.490 Um, oh can we open an account in turkey like that? 01:10:34.250 --> 01:10:35.590 Uh, I don't know 01:10:36.230 --> 01:10:38.490 It's an open account about the turkey 01:10:39.730 --> 01:10:42.710 So without that explains why you're in in jubai 01:10:43.630 --> 01:10:48.610 Yeah, I mean we're kind of at the crossroads of the arab world which loves gold 01:10:49.070 --> 01:10:54.630 Maybe arguably slightly less than the turks who love gold. Maybe arguably slightly less than the indians 01:10:55.150 --> 01:11:00.110 And those three worlds are here the fourth world that loves gold would be asian, you know, the chinese 01:11:00.630 --> 01:11:02.730 Yeah, it's gonna say the chinese big on it as well 01:11:03.350 --> 01:11:07.990 And you know, and they're chinese people here in this market, but not not that many. It's really 01:11:08.630 --> 01:11:09.330 you know, so 01:11:10.550 --> 01:11:12.430 So that I mean in a way 01:11:13.810 --> 01:11:15.690 We have a completely distorted 01:11:16.210 --> 01:11:17.950 View in the west about 01:11:18.530 --> 01:11:22.250 Gold and silver we don't we have no no feeling for it 01:11:23.390 --> 01:11:24.950 You know it was destroyed by 01:11:25.550 --> 01:11:30.070 You know making it illegal in the u.s. That was never illegal in the uk, but 01:11:30.870 --> 01:11:32.890 You know three or four generations of 01:11:32.890 --> 01:11:38.090 Kids going to school being taught that money was because the paper printed with government 01:11:38.690 --> 01:11:41.110 You know pictures and government slogans on it 01:11:42.970 --> 01:11:45.290 You know have eventually done their 01:11:46.250 --> 01:11:47.290 done their magic 01:11:48.530 --> 01:11:50.330 To indoctrinate and program 01:11:50.910 --> 01:11:55.090 You know people's brains and then it's financial regulation, you know if you're a financial advisor 01:11:55.690 --> 01:11:57.670 There's a reasonable and prudent standard 01:11:58.390 --> 01:12:03.530 Right and if you put something in somebody's portfolio or too much of it and the price moves against them 01:12:03.530 --> 01:12:06.930 You know, you could be censured by the regulator lose your license, etc 01:12:07.630 --> 01:12:11.290 You know, if you have too much gold in somebody's portfolio, that's not reasonable and prudent 01:12:11.930 --> 01:12:15.950 According to the state like so it's that right. Are there still are there still 01:12:16.630 --> 01:12:17.630 Regulations on that? 01:12:17.870 --> 01:12:24.730 Well, that's the standard. I mean in the u.s. At least the standard being, you know, you're responsible for reasonable and prudent investment decisions 01:12:25.430 --> 01:12:28.310 Now I don't think the regulation names gold specifically 01:12:29.310 --> 01:12:33.990 But they you know the financial world regards gold as a valuable commodity 01:12:34.790 --> 01:12:38.150 So if you if you're a financial advisor and you say, okay 01:12:38.150 --> 01:12:43.210 I want 50% gold in your portfolio or whatever some big number like that and the gold price drops 01:12:43.830 --> 01:12:44.490 30% 01:12:45.350 --> 01:12:46.210 I think 01:12:46.790 --> 01:12:49.950 You're on your back foot at best in the defense of posture 01:12:50.430 --> 01:12:57.110 Arguing this was reasonable and prudent and they're going to say those are risky commodity and the proof is it just lost 30% 01:12:57.930 --> 01:13:00.570 You know, you just hurt you just hurt your client by 30. Yeah 01:13:01.890 --> 01:13:03.370 everybody, you know out of 01:13:04.490 --> 01:13:08.590 I hate the term abundance of caution, but you know fear is a regulator chilling effect 01:13:08.590 --> 01:13:13.410 Whatever term you want to use. Yeah financial advisors will shy away from it 01:13:13.410 --> 01:13:16.330 You know kids are learning, you know, if you go to google images 01:13:16.910 --> 01:13:19.490 Or being images you type in money 01:13:19.490 --> 01:13:21.230 You want pictures of money? 01:13:21.750 --> 01:13:26.810 You'll get page after page after page after page of pieces of paper with green ink on them 01:13:27.550 --> 01:13:29.130 You won't see gold coins 01:13:30.230 --> 01:13:34.050 This is there has been so much brainwashing 01:13:34.630 --> 01:13:38.850 I mean, I I I speak from personal experience here if I had my way 01:13:39.430 --> 01:13:41.250 I would have put everything 01:13:42.250 --> 01:13:46.970 Into gold and silver because it was like or or or silver miners and gold miners 01:13:47.750 --> 01:13:48.030 but 01:13:48.750 --> 01:13:49.230 when I 01:13:49.970 --> 01:13:50.770 proposed this 01:13:51.610 --> 01:13:53.450 To my to my wife 01:13:54.110 --> 01:13:57.450 She was she started quoting back at me all this stuff 01:13:57.450 --> 01:14:01.530 She'd read in the financial sections of newspapers and all the friends saying where 01:14:01.530 --> 01:14:04.090 You've got to have a balanced portfolio 01:14:04.790 --> 01:14:07.830 and and you've got to allow for different 01:14:07.830 --> 01:14:09.990 and I said but 01:14:10.710 --> 01:14:15.250 gold and silver are really going to go stratospheric what why 01:14:16.430 --> 01:14:19.730 What's the point of investing in things that aren't going to go stratospheric? 01:14:20.270 --> 01:14:25.190 And she was like, yeah, but what if I said, but it's not even a what it's a one-way bet. Do you not understand? 01:14:26.350 --> 01:14:26.750 but 01:14:27.330 --> 01:14:30.770 But I mean again, this is how most people have been trained to think 01:14:31.730 --> 01:14:35.830 well, you know, there was there was a genius to Cain's evil 01:14:36.390 --> 01:14:38.770 and and fdr's evil in 1933 01:14:39.730 --> 01:14:46.350 That by divorcing gold from what then became to be understood as money, which is a wrong understanding or whatever 01:14:46.830 --> 01:14:52.790 Then, you know, gold has price volatility. So if you're conservative, you know, you have expenses you have to cover 01:14:53.310 --> 01:14:55.030 owning gold in the short term could 01:14:55.490 --> 01:14:57.390 You know if you go down and you can get hurt 01:14:58.210 --> 01:14:58.650 and 01:14:59.910 --> 01:15:03.530 You know, and and they're and they're longest periods. I mean 01:15:03.530 --> 01:15:06.390 God help anybody that was buying gold in 1980 01:15:07.130 --> 01:15:09.410 You know thinking we're gonna have imminent hyperinflation 01:15:09.410 --> 01:15:14.270 They would have had to hold it as it went down from what 800 or $50 to $200 01:15:14.270 --> 01:15:19.330 by 2000 and and gordon brown and all that and then the gold bull market 01:15:19.330 --> 01:15:21.410 But you know, like somebody could 01:15:22.110 --> 01:15:26.970 You know get old and pass away and now their kids have the gold before the price recovered now 01:15:26.970 --> 01:15:30.890 Was it 2000 or 2001 to 2008 the price was rising 01:15:31.550 --> 01:15:33.450 in 2008 there was 30 drop 01:15:34.290 --> 01:15:37.490 Yeah, no gold dropped a lot less than anything else 01:15:38.130 --> 01:15:41.890 And it was the first to make new all-time highs by january of 2009 01:15:42.590 --> 01:15:46.430 It had recovered the high that it had in in you know, spring of 2008 01:15:47.010 --> 01:15:51.670 Right. It was it was past $1000 again in july in january 2009 01:15:52.270 --> 01:15:54.790 um, but that you know, and then 01:15:55.330 --> 01:15:58.570 So so the price of gold went bananas from january 09 01:15:59.330 --> 01:16:01.390 to august of 2011 01:16:02.070 --> 01:16:06.950 Then it made its peak of just short of $2000 as everyone knows and then 01:16:07.470 --> 01:16:09.950 what eight-year period seven-year period of 01:16:11.110 --> 01:16:12.650 downward, you know price action 01:16:13.250 --> 01:16:18.150 So during that time, you know, if you think in dollar terms your value was eroding away 01:16:19.270 --> 01:16:22.690 After that, you know, if you bought it in early 2019, let's say 01:16:23.110 --> 01:16:24.830 Yeah, it's been an explosive upside 01:16:25.890 --> 01:16:29.090 And so it goes through these goes through both sides of the cycle 01:16:29.970 --> 01:16:33.590 And um, you know that creates risk, especially if you need your money in the meantime 01:16:34.590 --> 01:16:38.270 So have you personally got lots of money in 01:16:38.270 --> 01:16:41.910 I mean, I'm sorry lots of money lots of silver physical silver 01:16:42.990 --> 01:16:48.070 I'm sir. I don't have a huge amount of silver. I tend to be more skewed towards gold, but I do have some silver 01:16:48.730 --> 01:16:49.210 Yeah 01:16:49.710 --> 01:16:55.290 So, I mean you must be feeling a bit flusher at the moment then you were six months ago 01:16:55.290 --> 01:16:57.410 the so-called wealth effect 01:16:58.070 --> 01:16:59.470 um, now my 01:17:00.230 --> 01:17:04.590 I'm a vast disproportion of my net worth is in monetary metals equity 01:17:05.350 --> 01:17:08.670 So that's really interesting since our revenues are gold 01:17:09.550 --> 01:17:12.030 um, you know for every ounce of revenue we make 01:17:12.590 --> 01:17:17.810 That's now worth $5,600 versus say $2,600 a couple years ago 01:17:18.370 --> 01:17:22.930 So monetary metals share price has gearing to the gold price 01:17:22.930 --> 01:17:24.950 Uh, and so 01:17:25.390 --> 01:17:29.630 Yeah, I feel pretty good about my net worth from the monetary metal side 01:17:29.630 --> 01:17:35.410 So not only are we growing revenue in gold ounces, but the each the value of each of those ounces is 01:17:35.970 --> 01:17:37.570 massively higher in dollar terms 01:17:38.490 --> 01:17:40.550 So that you know, that's a pretty good 01:17:41.390 --> 01:17:45.650 Uh, you know place to be but are you are you living in jubile now? 01:17:46.110 --> 01:17:48.810 I am yeah, right for what I mean. So 01:17:49.510 --> 01:17:50.910 Better tax arrangement 01:17:51.710 --> 01:17:53.150 You know, if you're an american 01:17:54.070 --> 01:17:56.510 You don't benefit from that. So if you're british 01:17:56.510 --> 01:18:02.790 Once you leave the you know the borders of the uk you make income somewhere else. You don't get tax 01:18:03.390 --> 01:18:07.630 Yeah, as an american citizen no matter where I live. I have to pay tax to the uos government 01:18:08.330 --> 01:18:12.310 That sucks, you know, you can shelter. I think 130 thousand dollars 01:18:12.930 --> 01:18:14.290 According to the tax code 01:18:14.910 --> 01:18:15.510 That's it 01:18:16.270 --> 01:18:18.970 I mean, are you happy in jubile? Is it does it suit you? 01:18:19.650 --> 01:18:21.490 It provides a cool place 01:18:21.950 --> 01:18:22.250 um 01:18:22.890 --> 01:18:26.930 You know the u.s. Like everywhere else, you know in the west 01:18:26.930 --> 01:18:31.950 You know the cultures, you know become divisive, you know a bit nasty 01:18:32.570 --> 01:18:37.370 You know where I used to live in in in arizona was pretty good 01:18:37.370 --> 01:18:43.590 We didn't have all the idiots in the streets blocking traffic and you know doing vandalism and all these things 01:18:44.190 --> 01:18:44.790 um 01:18:46.190 --> 01:18:47.390 but um 01:18:47.830 --> 01:18:51.070 You know back up pretty nasty and the other thing is in in the west 01:18:51.630 --> 01:18:54.290 You know, you know, a lot of people will look at you as scants 01:18:54.930 --> 01:18:57.330 Uh, you know if you're successful, there's this envy 01:18:57.870 --> 01:18:59.230 You know thing going on 01:18:59.710 --> 01:19:04.170 And in jubile, you don't have either of those things. There's no social unrest here people are happy 01:19:05.190 --> 01:19:08.910 And people are here to make money. So if you're making money, that's okay great 01:19:08.910 --> 01:19:14.770 And there's people that are fantastically wealthy driving around gold plated Rolls Royces and all these things 01:19:15.490 --> 01:19:18.550 And you know, there isn't at least not visibly 01:19:19.570 --> 01:19:22.310 You envy everyone's like iranya, you know, this is cool 01:19:23.090 --> 01:19:27.490 So, you know, the culture is pleasant here. It was absolutely a first world city 01:19:28.210 --> 01:19:30.390 Uh, you know the lifestyle is fantastic here 01:19:31.090 --> 01:19:33.310 Weather is bloody hot in the summer. I will say that 01:19:33.870 --> 01:19:40.490 And and summer means like may through october is you know, it's yeah, yeah, yeah 01:19:41.250 --> 01:19:42.450 Yeah, I 01:19:43.390 --> 01:19:44.910 I'm not a big fan of air con 01:19:45.890 --> 01:19:52.470 And also, I think the lack of lack of sort of organic vegetables might might be a bit of a deal breaker for me 01:19:53.110 --> 01:19:54.810 You can get any food you want 01:19:55.310 --> 01:20:00.850 Here I mean, it's it's obviously important, but you want an organic veg, you know, you certainly can 01:20:00.850 --> 01:20:01.870 Oh, okay 01:20:02.790 --> 01:20:03.230 but 01:20:03.950 --> 01:20:05.870 pork not too available here, but 01:20:06.530 --> 01:20:10.370 That's about it. Alcohol is plum to full and everywhere. I mean, it's 01:20:10.890 --> 01:20:16.110 It's it's become a very metropolitan cosmopolitan, you know, city 01:20:17.530 --> 01:20:17.930 Um 01:20:21.010 --> 01:20:22.430 Oh, I suddenly thought, you know what? 01:20:22.650 --> 01:20:25.550 My friend Michelle is in Dubai at the moment and I and she was asking me 01:20:25.550 --> 01:20:30.110 Did I know anybody in Dubai and I and I didn't think I did but no, I know I know that you're there 01:20:30.110 --> 01:20:31.510 But I think she's I think she's going um 01:20:32.230 --> 01:20:35.530 She'll probably be back flying home by the time we this this thing 01:20:36.910 --> 01:20:38.110 finishes, um, okay 01:20:38.950 --> 01:20:40.990 Um, what's the other thing I wanted to ask you? 01:20:42.510 --> 01:20:43.310 Dubai and 01:20:47.150 --> 01:20:50.870 Oh, I don't know. I think we've sort of we've sort of 01:20:51.990 --> 01:20:53.870 Oh, it's something about silver gold 01:20:57.510 --> 01:21:02.050 Oh, there probably are questions I should have asked you Keith, but you know, whatever can always 01:21:03.750 --> 01:21:04.150 There's always 01:21:05.270 --> 01:21:11.410 I'm anyway, I'm I'm really glad that that it's that it's that it's um, it's worked out 01:21:12.030 --> 01:21:14.430 and so I shouldn't I shouldn't be 01:21:16.610 --> 01:21:20.570 Not not advertising you because it sounds like you're a good you're a good thing 01:21:21.510 --> 01:21:25.950 I mean, it's been a good thing and and we advertise on your show because it's working 01:21:26.630 --> 01:21:28.350 Yeah, it's pulling it's pulling costumers 01:21:28.930 --> 01:21:32.610 Well, yeah, well, you know, you haven't actually paid many money for advertising anymore 01:21:32.610 --> 01:21:36.190 I just I just get my my my cut from the um from the 01:21:36.770 --> 01:21:41.690 That's the thing. I'm so bad at business that I don't even like 01:21:42.290 --> 01:21:44.590 I I can't I can't 01:21:44.590 --> 01:21:49.250 I'm I'm much interested in making in making the product and talking to interesting people and just like 01:21:51.150 --> 01:21:53.550 Anyway, it's good. It's been good 01:21:54.290 --> 01:21:54.830 um 01:21:55.410 --> 01:21:57.470 So, uh, well if I'm in Dubai 01:21:58.370 --> 01:21:59.870 I'll I'll come and say hi 01:22:00.310 --> 01:22:06.890 Because, you know, we didn't we never had that thing when you were in london. Did we but when you wait the trains broke or something or 01:22:06.890 --> 01:22:12.850 It didn't work. That's right. You were like stuck halfway between. I was stuck at north hampton or something and yeah 01:22:13.710 --> 01:22:18.230 I remember that and it was like you even he sent me the text message like you were stranded on train in the middle 01:22:18.230 --> 01:22:20.810 It wasn't even a station like between that's right 01:22:21.730 --> 01:22:26.090 And it was really annoying estimated three and a half hours. I was like, oh, that's not gonna work 01:22:26.090 --> 01:22:28.010 No, let's we'll head back home 01:22:28.530 --> 01:22:31.230 So we we we still haven't actually met are we? 01:22:32.210 --> 01:22:35.550 No, I'll let you know the next time i'm in london and then we'll try to get together 01:22:36.010 --> 01:22:40.130 Yeah, yeah, okay. That's good. Um, well, thank you. Um, so 01:22:41.570 --> 01:22:46.770 Where well, I suppose I'll put down the the the the thing where they can find 01:22:47.670 --> 01:22:48.510 monetary metals 01:22:49.090 --> 01:22:53.370 So you don't think it'd be because I I I I hear also hear people saying 01:22:53.370 --> 01:22:57.590 Like I've missed the boat haven't I is why why why should I get? 01:22:58.970 --> 01:23:00.330 silver or gold now 01:23:00.330 --> 01:23:06.350 You know if you if you want to make a trade there's definitely some risk at this at this price point 01:23:06.910 --> 01:23:09.830 What I say to people is if you don't own any gold 01:23:10.490 --> 01:23:11.750 You should go out and buy some 01:23:12.910 --> 01:23:16.070 Um, and it's not a function of price. It's a matter of having some gold 01:23:17.290 --> 01:23:20.810 Um, not as a speculation not of something you would ever sell for currency 01:23:21.360 --> 01:23:24.630 But because it protects you against all kinds of 01:23:25.990 --> 01:23:28.710 Unknown, you know black swans and unforeseeable things 01:23:29.250 --> 01:23:31.030 That I you know, I think are coming 01:23:32.210 --> 01:23:38.630 Um for a trade, you know on our website. We publish daily, you know updates of the basis 01:23:39.530 --> 01:23:43.310 And and you know some analysis related to that so people can see 01:23:43.950 --> 01:23:48.450 Where you know supply and demand is currently running and I give you some idea for it's not a timing indicator 01:23:48.450 --> 01:23:50.190 Everybody gives me some indication of the 01:23:50.610 --> 01:23:55.630 Tension in the market is the tension pulling the price up and reversion is going to tend to want to snap back down 01:23:55.630 --> 01:24:01.450 Is is is the tension pulling down? It's going to want to step up. We give you that you know sort of picture 01:24:02.790 --> 01:24:07.250 There's there's going to be a war soon. What what what effect would war how I mean 01:24:07.250 --> 01:24:12.930 Trump's definitely going to be probably has invaded Iraq. I mean, sorry Iran attacked Iran by the time 01:24:13.530 --> 01:24:13.930 um 01:24:14.570 --> 01:24:19.050 This podcast goes out. What what effect is war going to have on the golden silver price? 01:24:20.670 --> 01:24:24.490 I mean generally high, you know when trust is in decline 01:24:25.630 --> 01:24:28.670 You know people want to dump and the currency is a 01:24:29.330 --> 01:24:30.650 uh unsecured credit 01:24:31.810 --> 01:24:34.730 So as you lose trust or lose confidence 01:24:35.390 --> 01:24:38.550 You think you know, I'm going to trade some of those currency units for something real 01:24:39.470 --> 01:24:41.490 So, you know the gold price goes up 01:24:42.070 --> 01:24:43.370 We'll see. Um 01:24:44.070 --> 01:24:46.530 I don't really know what's going to happen geopolitically. I don't 01:24:47.370 --> 01:24:47.890 I don't pretend 01:24:48.770 --> 01:24:50.570 Excuse me. I don't pretend to have any 01:24:51.250 --> 01:24:54.890 Particularly knowledge about what's going to happen. I mean, I see what he says like everybody else, but 01:24:55.790 --> 01:24:57.610 um, we'll have to see on that but war 01:24:58.470 --> 01:25:01.170 Tends to uh support a higher gold price 01:25:02.590 --> 01:25:06.270 No, okay, so I'm keeping you up. It's probably what time is it there? 01:25:07.110 --> 01:25:08.890 It's 10 p.m. Oh 01:25:08.890 --> 01:25:14.950 I hate I hate doing podcasts late at night. So I'm I'm sorry to have um, no, no worries. I'll catch you up 01:25:14.950 --> 01:25:20.130 um, well, that's great keith um, and um, everyone else 01:25:20.870 --> 01:25:24.890 I hope you've um enjoyed my relationship with um 01:25:24.890 --> 01:25:30.170 Military metals over the year and some of you bought some I kind of think those of you did did the right thing 01:25:30.170 --> 01:25:32.670 I've uh, you know, what do I know? I mean, I'm just a kind of 01:25:33.390 --> 01:25:35.430 crazy gold bug conspiracy theorist 01:25:35.430 --> 01:25:36.290 um 01:25:36.830 --> 01:25:39.390 Thank you again again keith. Um, and 01:25:40.030 --> 01:25:45.490 Everyone, please support me. Please consider becoming a paid subscriber and um, yeah 01:25:46.110 --> 01:25:48.330 Like my stuff. Thank you