WEBVTT 00:12.180 --> 00:18.120 What up, vigilantes? It is my pleasure to be here with you guys today and to have someone 00:18.120 --> 00:23.600 before me who I've been wanting to introduce to you guys for a very long time, Mark Wilcox. 00:24.100 --> 00:29.880 He's one of the guys, the team, we're going to learn more about this phenomenon called 00:30.600 --> 00:34.980 21E8. How are you doing, Mark? Good. How are you? 00:35.080 --> 00:40.060 Thank you for, I'm doing good. Thank you for being with us. And you know, 21E8 00:40.060 --> 00:46.060 has been something that has captivated my imagination, my mind. And I'm the first one to admit that 00:46.060 --> 00:51.080 I'm the one, I'm one of those that really saw a lot of wonder in it and I want to learn more 00:51.080 --> 00:53.320 about it. What is 21E8? 00:54.700 --> 00:59.880 Well, we, we've had several kind of like periods that we've gone through. Really like the best 01:00.380 --> 01:08.140 sort of tagline I always go back to is where the magic number company. So what is it and who are we 01:08.140 --> 01:15.220 and what not? Sort of like you can, you can pretty much answer it relatively completely. I've 01:15.220 --> 01:20.980 been saying that since about 2020 when we were really getting started. Yeah, in that, in that 01:21.800 --> 01:28.920 tagline, it leads you to another question is what is a magic number? But also there's sort of like 01:28.920 --> 01:35.080 lots of other magic number companies around now. So I think we can maybe kind of go into that. 01:35.080 --> 01:41.080 And that'll help paint a bigger picture about sort of what we're trying to do and where things are 01:41.080 --> 01:42.380 hitting. And yeah. 01:42.900 --> 01:51.120 There's a lot of very, there's a lot of very interesting origin stories regarding Bitcoin 01:51.120 --> 02:01.560 and regarding the Bitcoin infrastructure. And for example, I've read that Satoshi launched 02:01.560 --> 02:06.980 Bitcoin in a way that mirrored the seven days of God's creation as seen in the book of Genesis. 02:07.640 --> 02:10.680 Do you know about that? Is there something you can speak to that? 02:14.560 --> 02:18.800 I can't say like, I don't, I don't know particularly what you might be referring to where 02:18.800 --> 02:23.460 someone said that, but it was something like, I think around like, when I first met Andrew 02:23.460 --> 02:27.880 DeSantis, when I became friends with Andrew, that was sort of like, like you quickly 02:27.880 --> 02:34.780 start learning and identifying the similarities, right? And it has this very sort of like interesting 02:34.780 --> 02:42.200 kind of layered approach and you find your way back to the root. So 100%. I think there's 02:42.200 --> 02:48.880 some 2017 tweets from me like floating around sort of on the, you know, with that sort of 02:50.680 --> 02:55.000 lens. And I think maybe like Craig Wright sort of picked up on that about six or nine 02:55.000 --> 02:59.000 months later. I can't remember. There was definitely like a very funny video. I don't 02:59.000 --> 03:06.000 know. You probably deleted off YouTube now of Ryan Charles and he later sort of like was 03:06.000 --> 03:10.000 able to escape the cult of Craig Wright. So I think he that's part of why he cleaned 03:10.000 --> 03:15.660 his channel up. But there was a very much like that narrative has definitely been floating 03:15.660 --> 03:17.540 around the Bitcoin for a while. 03:17.940 --> 03:22.800 But it's also something that is very close to not just one school of thought within 03:22.800 --> 03:28.100 Bitcoin, these things up here across all of Bitcoin, even, you know, the small blocker 03:28.100 --> 03:34.940 camp really sees the, the, a lot of intentionality behind Bitcoin. And you guys were able to 03:34.940 --> 03:40.500 notice that there was a hash at the, at the first block of Bitcoin history that read 03:40.500 --> 03:47.900 218. And that had a lot of not right at the start, not right at the start. But it 03:47.900 --> 03:56.020 was very, it was very serendipitous in that Andrew and I were, I was actually visiting Andrew, 03:56.180 --> 04:00.540 I stayed with him for like two weeks in Mississippi in 2018. And I already had the 04:00.540 --> 04:06.340 218 domain and I sort of like he was selling me on this like E8 lattice ideas. And I 04:06.340 --> 04:10.640 thought that was really fun and funny. But there was a company 21 E six that he 04:10.640 --> 04:13.980 was sort of involved with, which was the biggest Bitcoin startup in the world 04:13.980 --> 04:19.500 from about 21 right 21, they rebranded because they couldn't like kind of stomach 04:19.500 --> 04:23.700 the dimensionality of the original name that came out in their slide decks. So 04:23.700 --> 04:30.060 they eventually like went from 21 E six.com to 20 21.co. And they kind of like 04:30.060 --> 04:34.480 really diluted themselves and eventually like sold themselves to to Coinbase 04:34.480 --> 04:38.460 for for basically just about the same money that they that they raised in 04:38.460 --> 04:41.380 the first place. Anyway, I thought it was really funny. I have a like a 04:41.380 --> 04:46.560 habit of like buying shit poster domain names like I have frog dot vision, you 04:46.560 --> 04:51.100 can go to frog dot vision slash frog vision dot PDF, and we'll have the it'll 04:51.100 --> 04:54.700 have like the Bitcoin white paper except we rebranded it to say it's 04:54.700 --> 04:59.020 instead of Satoshi, it's coin easy. And it's all bright green 21 E eight color. 04:59.680 --> 05:04.860 Okay, so I had a habit of doing that. And one of the domains that I had 05:04.860 --> 05:10.700 was 21 E eight.com because it was kind of like 21 E six except instead 05:10.700 --> 05:14.620 of paying loads of money because like they did for the 21.co domain, it was 05:14.620 --> 05:17.880 around at the time. I was like, I'll buy that one for $20. Thank you. And I put 05:17.880 --> 05:24.540 some cool cell reactive diffusion WebGL animation on it and like and put it 05:24.540 --> 05:28.640 on my Twitter profile and like left it for a bit. And then a year later, I 05:28.640 --> 05:32.900 was sort of at Andrew DeSantis's place in Mississippi. He was tweeting 05:32.900 --> 05:39.240 the Bitcoin Genesis block hash and and and we were working on 05:40.280 --> 05:48.020 like mock ups and we'd been time stamping tweets or from from from 05:48.020 --> 05:54.140 Twitter and post tweets, tag the open time stamps proof bot and then 05:54.140 --> 05:58.080 delete it. So there was this like met a game of the information market 05:58.080 --> 06:02.060 sort of like that that there's this there's this hidden hidden 06:02.060 --> 06:06.520 information like strategy game being played, you know, all around the 06:06.520 --> 06:11.360 internet where Bitcoin we have to be able to, you know, be there at each 06:11.360 --> 06:15.860 moment to capture the data, record it and then reconstitute it on the 06:15.860 --> 06:18.700 blockchain. Right. And so we had been doing that for about a year or 06:18.700 --> 06:22.760 something. And yeah, later later on I was like at Andrew DeSantis's 06:22.760 --> 06:27.300 place and and we were working on like making a UI so that we could 06:27.300 --> 06:30.600 reconstruct all these all these tweets that were that were stored 06:30.600 --> 06:34.620 stored on on BTC. And this is like from before the halving. But 06:34.620 --> 06:38.740 then at this point, this is sorry, not halving the hash war, the fork, 06:38.920 --> 06:44.080 but but then later on this is like post for and and and it just 06:44.080 --> 06:47.940 like caught the glimpse of my eye that like the latest block like had 06:47.940 --> 06:51.340 that number and I'm like, and I was closing the tab, it was like, 06:51.360 --> 06:54.580 well, I'm closing the tab and I'm like, wait, and I like reopened 06:54.580 --> 06:59.180 it reopened ago, like command shift T and then reopen the tab 06:59.180 --> 07:01.700 again. And I'm like, oh, that's funny. And so I tweeted, of course, 07:01.700 --> 07:04.880 and Andrew had tweeted right before that he tweeted like hashtag 07:04.880 --> 07:10.140 with the genesis block hash. And and and and we did that like 07:10.140 --> 07:14.080 we thought that was really funny. But it like caught on and he 07:14.080 --> 07:18.700 stayed up all night like shitposting, you know, meme, like 07:19.240 --> 07:23.820 memeing it. And then like two days later, it's like the UK 07:23.820 --> 07:27.820 telegraph newspaper like in futurism.com and everything they all have 07:27.820 --> 07:32.260 these like big articles about mysterious block hash signals the 07:32.260 --> 07:35.940 return of Satoshi Nakamoto, right? So there was this sort of whole 07:35.940 --> 07:40.220 he had lots of like, you know, he had this meme of like, or this 07:40.220 --> 07:43.140 narrative of like Satoshi Nakamoto is a time traveling alien 07:43.140 --> 07:46.040 you know, sent from the future and quantum computers and all this 07:46.040 --> 07:49.840 kind of stuff. And sort of that that that was almost like the 07:49.840 --> 07:54.700 coining of that like it originally it was just this like 07:54.700 --> 07:58.260 sort of funny thing of some ideas that we had floating around 07:58.260 --> 08:02.860 with the E8 lattice and like optimal graphs and and the 08:02.860 --> 08:06.020 Bitcoin network and so and so forth and little like 08:06.020 --> 08:09.060 interesting things that that Andrew was doing on the BTC 08:09.060 --> 08:12.980 chain as well with memory addresses. And then and then yeah 08:12.980 --> 08:15.080 sort of like there was a serendipitous thing which is 08:15.080 --> 08:17.640 like signed from the universe that you're like that you're 08:17.640 --> 08:21.020 on the right track. And then and then you know next 08:21.020 --> 08:23.620 thing you know it's all in the news and everything. 08:23.620 --> 08:28.720 So when I so when I was I was working in the company at the 08:28.720 --> 08:31.020 time but then like sort of a year after that or something 08:31.620 --> 08:35.600 yeah about 12 months after that I was sort of hey hey like I 08:35.600 --> 08:39.080 want to go work on all this you know these are Bitcoin sort 08:39.080 --> 08:42.580 of AI related ideas. I'd had lots of experience with like 08:42.580 --> 08:46.820 what now is this AI and video super computing thing and 08:46.820 --> 08:49.240 I guess I started working on that 10 years ago now. 08:50.120 --> 08:54.560 And that was just like the natural no not on Bitcoin just like 08:54.560 --> 08:57.580 in the in the AI and the Nvidia space but then sort of like 08:57.580 --> 09:01.920 that that that you know crossed over with Bitcoin around this 09:01.920 --> 09:04.520 time. And so when I was like hey I really want to go start 09:04.520 --> 09:07.300 looking at working on some of those ideas it was sort of 09:07.300 --> 09:10.060 like the obvious name to pick for for the company 09:10.060 --> 09:15.300 because there wasn't some you know like there was a very 09:16.180 --> 09:19.840 particular focused concept around this way that you 09:19.840 --> 09:23.560 can encode information in Bitcoin hashes but all of the 09:23.560 --> 09:26.800 other things that you might you know that might be what you 09:26.800 --> 09:29.700 need to do with that like well we had to had to go and set out 09:29.700 --> 09:32.560 and try to try to answer those questions for ourselves so 09:32.560 --> 09:35.520 so I picked that name you know for for the company at 09:35.520 --> 09:37.720 the time said like hey let's try to recruit a bunch of 09:37.720 --> 09:41.760 people and turn this into something and you know it 09:41.760 --> 09:44.520 was a bit of my bad luck that like we basically did that on 09:44.520 --> 09:47.480 the same day that the COVID sort of like you know virus 09:48.820 --> 09:51.580 got spawned out over the Internet and sort of like that 09:51.580 --> 09:54.480 took over but weirdly you know that was just kind of one 09:54.480 --> 09:59.300 Bitcoin halving ago really you know like plus a year at this 09:59.300 --> 10:02.280 point obviously but we're only one cycle. 10:03.400 --> 10:05.560 Bitcoin conference in London as well. 10:06.160 --> 10:09.460 Yeah yeah yeah and there were a bunch of a bunch of us 10:09.460 --> 10:11.920 were all there there was like right before yeah right 10:11.920 --> 10:14.800 before all the all the lockdowns and stuff started yeah. 10:14.820 --> 10:18.160 So what a lot of us theorize at the moment it happened is 10:18.160 --> 10:21.260 is we because at the time we were at Anarcapulco and we 10:21.260 --> 10:24.220 said this whole lockdown is happening to stop the twenty 10:24.220 --> 10:25.040 one eight guys. 10:26.240 --> 10:29.800 That's literally what a lot of us said across the world 10:29.800 --> 10:33.060 in in Anarcapulco Mexico as we're like there's just 10:33.060 --> 10:35.000 too much energy coming from that conference. 10:36.360 --> 10:40.980 Yeah yeah there's definitely the when you when you kind 10:40.980 --> 10:44.180 of go like when you look in history of a sort of like 10:44.180 --> 10:46.420 Einstein and different people like the inventing the same 10:46.420 --> 10:49.100 things at the same time I think there's like the 10:49.100 --> 10:52.280 information environment has like encoded in it you know 10:52.280 --> 10:57.080 potential energies that that they only just become 10:57.080 --> 10:59.940 possible you know like within a certain window and 10:59.940 --> 11:02.580 there's a high chance that like somebody might be 11:02.580 --> 11:03.620 like five minutes behind you. 11:03.660 --> 11:06.300 So it was very sort of interesting seeing all these 11:06.300 --> 11:10.820 sort of like ARG type of techniques like from you know 11:10.820 --> 11:13.720 from the mainstream media that like basically six months 11:13.720 --> 11:17.140 after that like we were going around London like taking 11:17.140 --> 11:19.360 pictures of things and like hashing them and and 11:19.360 --> 11:22.620 tagging them and everything and having these ideas about 11:22.620 --> 11:25.740 how you can use proof of work to like classify and 11:25.740 --> 11:27.820 index and associate information well it was very 11:27.820 --> 11:30.520 interesting to see like six months later mainstream 11:30.520 --> 11:33.700 you know I guess it was like maybe a bit more 11:33.700 --> 11:36.820 like 12 months but that you know like your iPhone 11:36.820 --> 11:40.040 would have the cryptographic contacts tracing thing 11:40.040 --> 11:43.040 that it spits out hashes so that if you go to the 11:43.040 --> 11:46.100 grocery store and you don't necessarily like keep away 11:46.100 --> 11:48.980 from everybody else's Bluetooth antennas like at 11:48.980 --> 11:50.840 the distance that they tell you in the news then 11:50.840 --> 11:53.720 there's a random lottery chance that you're going to 11:53.720 --> 11:56.180 have to stay home for two weeks so it was very 11:56.180 --> 12:00.080 interesting like sort of from from our perspective 12:00.080 --> 12:02.620 going like oh shit like we had perfect timing but 12:02.620 --> 12:06.240 we had no fucking clue like you know what was 12:06.240 --> 12:08.140 coming down the pipeline and we got like stuck in 12:08.140 --> 12:10.920 New Zealand for the first two years of of trying to 12:10.920 --> 12:12.980 do everything and so most of the last cycle was 12:12.980 --> 12:16.260 basically that first half and then the entire 12:16.260 --> 12:18.680 sort of like correction from that where it's sort 12:18.680 --> 12:22.440 of like it went from you know everything being 12:23.180 --> 12:24.880 completely locked down you're not allowed to go 12:24.880 --> 12:27.040 anywhere or go or do anything or associate with 12:27.040 --> 12:29.660 anybody and like don't look the right you know 12:29.660 --> 12:32.900 like careful what way that you look when you walk 12:32.900 --> 12:36.300 across the street or something to just a hundred 12:36.300 --> 12:39.080 percent like full throttle you know with all this 12:39.080 --> 12:42.300 Elon and Etts and Trump and everything like in the 12:42.300 --> 12:44.980 in the second half of it so the whole last cycle 12:44.980 --> 12:48.360 is basically just purely dominated by this 12:48.860 --> 12:52.480 you know like this COVID years or then like the 12:52.480 --> 12:56.260 Elon thing is the correction in from that 12:56.260 --> 12:58.680 and that's where I sort of made this thing about 12:58.680 --> 13:02.360 like well you know we're not the only magic number 13:02.360 --> 13:04.860 company anymore is it now you have this interesting 13:04.860 --> 13:11.120 funny doge thing which which you know there's a 13:11.120 --> 13:13.880 lot of like the playbook that of new tricks and 13:13.880 --> 13:16.060 new things and new ways of thinking that were 13:16.060 --> 13:18.720 invented in the last cycle that Elon is off 13:18.720 --> 13:20.540 you know like putting through the US government 13:20.540 --> 13:23.620 at the moment particularly about like putting 13:23.620 --> 13:26.680 you know assessing transactions and auditing 13:26.680 --> 13:29.880 the treasury and putting classification codes on 13:29.880 --> 13:33.060 things and and and my my suspicion suspicion 13:33.060 --> 13:35.500 is it's going to lead to a lot of assessment 13:35.500 --> 13:39.000 and like things that would lead to like multi-sig 13:39.000 --> 13:41.960 on on government and agency you know 13:41.960 --> 13:44.280 work and so forth and there was a lot of that 13:44.280 --> 13:46.880 that we were quite keen to get into but 13:46.880 --> 13:49.960 but honestly like we spent most of this 13:49.960 --> 13:52.600 you know last cycle on this kind of information 13:52.600 --> 13:54.820 problem like what's the information environment 13:54.820 --> 13:57.140 how do you understand you know how to interpret 13:57.140 --> 14:00.540 what you're seeing and and and and and so forth 14:01.360 --> 14:03.140 because it was really like you know the big 14:03.140 --> 14:07.360 moment was like the was was chat GPT right so 14:07.360 --> 14:08.740 you actually sort of have like these three 14:08.740 --> 14:11.820 there's this sort of like covert event there's 14:12.400 --> 14:14.540 the chat GPT and event which is kind of like 14:14.540 --> 14:16.260 the crossover and in the middle which is 14:16.260 --> 14:19.120 when the within is like hey all the all the 14:19.120 --> 14:22.880 all the all the curtains are coming down 14:22.880 --> 14:24.880 and like now we're now you're seeing you know how 14:24.880 --> 14:26.600 things are running behind the scenes and you get 14:26.600 --> 14:28.800 everybody gets access to technology now 14:28.800 --> 14:31.100 so obviously like when they were running 14:31.600 --> 14:33.760 covert you know there was people like 14:33.760 --> 14:36.820 I generating the you know daily reports 14:36.820 --> 14:38.580 about this and that and that's how they could get 14:38.580 --> 14:40.440 the sort of like coordination coordination 14:40.440 --> 14:42.380 and synchronization and consistency 14:42.380 --> 14:45.040 but then in the end of that is this 14:45.040 --> 14:47.520 sort of like transformation of you know 14:47.520 --> 14:49.020 Jack Dorsey 14:51.340 --> 14:51.880 censorship 14:51.880 --> 14:55.360 Twitter into Elon Musk 14:55.360 --> 14:57.260 X corp Bitcoin 14:57.260 --> 14:59.840 AI Twitter right where they actually 14:59.840 --> 15:01.800 managed to kind of like take the take 15:01.800 --> 15:04.000 both sides of the aisle where you had this 15:04.000 --> 15:05.960 sort of like AI technology that was 15:05.960 --> 15:09.040 you know one side and and and basically 15:09.040 --> 15:11.060 you know he managed he managed to like 15:11.680 --> 15:15.320 convert he managed to monetize crypto 15:16.700 --> 15:18.460 in the process of doing that and that's 15:18.460 --> 15:20.440 part of why he's like the king maker 15:21.800 --> 15:24.240 you know and in the present moment is 15:24.240 --> 15:26.040 because he figured out how to how to 15:26.040 --> 15:28.260 cross over that and he and you know he's 15:28.260 --> 15:29.760 very much like a global 15:31.260 --> 15:33.040 politician in that sense as well and 15:33.040 --> 15:35.120 there's not really many other people you 15:35.120 --> 15:36.640 know you could think of it as like there's 15:36.640 --> 15:37.340 a very 15:40.560 --> 15:42.860 memorable tweet I think from that 15:44.880 --> 15:45.340 the 15:46.660 --> 15:47.900 what's the guy's name 15:48.400 --> 15:50.240 I can't remember his name it was the 15:52.260 --> 15:54.520 maker Dowl found a guy who 15:55.420 --> 15:56.340 went crazy 15:57.140 --> 15:59.180 here's a tweet that's like we in the 15:59.180 --> 16:00.480 we in the cloud 16:02.900 --> 16:05.100 timeline yeah and so the reason that 16:05.100 --> 16:06.740 Elon is the king maker is that he 16:06.740 --> 16:09.520 managed to take Craig right and 16:09.520 --> 16:11.740 claus Schwab and like become become 16:11.740 --> 16:13.860 the you know become the united 16:14.700 --> 16:16.600 united person right 16:16.600 --> 16:21.860 you said it's yeah we we in the 16:21.860 --> 16:24.240 we we in the claus Schwab versus 16:24.240 --> 16:26.180 Craig right timeline so both of them 16:26.180 --> 16:27.800 last in the last cycle but this new 16:27.800 --> 16:29.540 guy of Elon Musk he managed to kind 16:29.540 --> 16:30.740 of like beat them both at their own 16:30.740 --> 16:32.680 game right yeah 16:33.920 --> 16:36.080 so this is I made a tweet that was 16:36.080 --> 16:38.480 like a we had a Adrian Ditman down 16:38.480 --> 16:41.640 here and I made a tweet it was a he 16:41.640 --> 16:42.960 did this Twitter space with 16:43.580 --> 16:46.440 Charlotte fang and Nick Fuentes and I 16:46.440 --> 16:48.320 tweeted like we in the we in the 16:48.320 --> 16:50.040 Charlotte fang versus Nick Fuentes 16:50.040 --> 16:51.980 timeline and then Adrian Ditman is 16:51.980 --> 16:53.860 trying to kind of like you know like 16:53.860 --> 16:55.380 we don't need you Nick Fuentes and 16:55.380 --> 16:56.840 Charlotte fang anymore because you 16:56.840 --> 16:58.740 know I sound like Elon Musk yeah 16:59.380 --> 17:02.580 there you go okay so we we've 17:02.580 --> 17:04.220 talked about many things thus far 17:05.020 --> 17:06.560 and I think in order to bring 17:06.560 --> 17:08.540 things to perspective for the viewer 17:09.480 --> 17:12.200 I think it's a good a good moment 17:12.200 --> 17:14.240 where we need to step back and like 17:15.020 --> 17:16.740 if you could please explain to people 17:16.740 --> 17:18.780 what computational data markets are 17:18.780 --> 17:20.920 and how they are the backbone 17:20.920 --> 17:23.800 marketplace for all of computation 17:23.800 --> 17:26.240 all of the internet all of crypto 17:27.080 --> 17:30.460 and now how you know a lot of that 17:30.460 --> 17:32.820 computations moving into AI 17:33.700 --> 17:36.100 what is the computational data market 17:37.060 --> 17:39.420 so this is like a a concept that 17:39.420 --> 17:42.240 kind of like really was was sort of 17:42.240 --> 17:44.020 like driving my interpretation 17:44.020 --> 17:45.560 understanding of Bitcoin like in 17:45.560 --> 17:48.320 2018 2019 like late 2019 when I was 17:48.320 --> 17:49.520 when I was starting up the project 17:49.520 --> 17:51.080 and that was sort of like the original 17:51.080 --> 17:52.850 speculation that we were sort of 17:53.540 --> 17:55.500 sort of like that our ambition 17:55.500 --> 17:56.740 was to run for that that was like 17:56.740 --> 17:58.700 five years ago it's still really 17:58.700 --> 18:00.340 relevant like the relevance of that 18:00.340 --> 18:02.840 speculation is is really high now 18:02.840 --> 18:05.440 I saw if you actually want it so 18:05.440 --> 18:08.180 so five years ago that was sort of like 18:08.180 --> 18:10.720 when you that was like really really 18:10.720 --> 18:12.320 hard to grasp so we're like wouldn't 18:12.320 --> 18:14.320 even resonate with people but if but we 18:14.320 --> 18:15.940 were trying to kind of like not fork off 18:15.940 --> 18:18.120 but we're trying to create very different 18:18.120 --> 18:20.360 language to then think about what 18:20.360 --> 18:22.100 is really going on here and can we like 18:22.100 --> 18:23.740 remove the speculation and the drama 18:23.740 --> 18:26.140 and everything else and then talk and 18:26.140 --> 18:27.500 then talk about how things are working 18:27.500 --> 18:28.960 and how they could potentially work under 18:28.960 --> 18:30.940 the hood right and on one side 18:30.940 --> 18:32.880 you had these like AI algorithms and 18:32.880 --> 18:35.000 Twitter Bitcoin Twitter and like 18:35.000 --> 18:37.080 you know the feed and the algorithm 18:37.080 --> 18:39.420 and and the attention and 18:39.420 --> 18:41.560 and Bitcoin was huge on there 18:42.160 --> 18:43.760 and you also had these sort of like 18:43.760 --> 18:45.640 historical dramas of like you know the 18:45.640 --> 18:47.220 takeover of Bitcoin talk and the 18:47.220 --> 18:49.640 takeover of of our Bitcoin 18:49.640 --> 18:51.900 and the takeover of you know 18:51.900 --> 18:53.200 and the Wikipedia and things in 18:53.200 --> 18:54.960 there too but that but ultimate 18:54.960 --> 18:57.660 takeover of BTC right and 18:57.660 --> 18:59.700 the changing of how 18:59.700 --> 19:01.620 that how that fits together so 19:01.620 --> 19:03.760 can I say around this time real 19:03.760 --> 19:06.080 quick the company 21 19:06.080 --> 19:07.980 with Andrew the Santis I remember 19:07.980 --> 19:10.060 how that was 19:10.060 --> 19:11.720 one of the center points of 19:11.720 --> 19:13.880 contention in regards to the future 19:13.880 --> 19:15.900 of what Bitcoin was to 19:15.900 --> 19:17.840 evolve into and I remember 19:17.840 --> 19:19.760 that he even had employed 19:19.760 --> 19:21.780 small blockers which maybe 19:21.780 --> 19:23.900 he he regretted at the time because 19:23.900 --> 19:26.080 he had employees at 21 19:26.080 --> 19:28.260 who were constantly challenging 19:28.260 --> 19:30.340 his world view of 19:30.340 --> 19:32.140 having Bitcoin involved 19:32.140 --> 19:34.320 involved in in the pretty much 19:34.320 --> 19:36.240 if I remember correctly the internet of 19:36.240 --> 19:38.220 things Bitcoin powering 19:38.220 --> 19:40.120 the internet of things so 19:40.120 --> 19:42.140 so I just wanted to bring 19:42.140 --> 19:43.780 that back to mind because 19:43.780 --> 19:46.200 that company 21 I remember 19:46.200 --> 19:47.140 it being very 19:47.860 --> 19:50.040 it was almost like a tipping point in 19:50.040 --> 19:52.160 Bitcoin history where Andrew had 19:52.160 --> 19:54.100 a lot of momentum and 19:54.100 --> 19:55.320 then since 19:55.320 --> 19:57.740 Bitcoin was united at that time 19:57.740 --> 19:59.980 I don't think he expected for 19:59.980 --> 20:01.660 his own employees to 20:01.660 --> 20:03.540 well Andrew there was an Andrew's 20:03.540 --> 20:05.540 there was Bellagio Srinivasan's company 20:05.540 --> 20:08.220 Andrew was one of these like 20:08.220 --> 20:09.980 you know characters that I think 20:09.980 --> 20:11.680 that there were several of these characters 20:11.680 --> 20:13.340 Andrew was involved in Bitcoin magazine 20:13.340 --> 20:15.380 and I think that's how he ended up at 21 20:16.200 --> 20:17.880 21 was really exciting that 20:17.880 --> 20:19.800 attracted me a lot the idea was 20:19.800 --> 20:21.600 essentially our running REST API 20:21.600 --> 20:23.720 services over payment channels 20:23.720 --> 20:25.680 and eventually you know 20:25.680 --> 20:27.020 part of that turned into 20:29.280 --> 20:31.760 part of that turned into 20:32.660 --> 20:34.620 the Lightning Network 20:35.880 --> 20:37.200 right with 20:37.200 --> 20:40.220 transacting over payment channels 20:41.260 --> 20:43.440 but also they had to deal with Qualcomm 20:43.440 --> 20:45.500 where they were trying to put a Bitcoin mining chip 20:45.500 --> 20:47.540 into smartphones and 20:47.540 --> 20:49.760 the head of operating systems 20:49.760 --> 20:51.700 and all the low level stuff for 20:52.460 --> 20:52.940 Qualcomm 20:53.600 --> 20:56.060 is the founder of Solana 20:56.600 --> 20:57.860 so I don't know like 20:57.860 --> 20:59.840 whether they were involved in that but it's interesting to see 20:59.840 --> 21:01.260 like well what was happening then 21:01.260 --> 21:03.040 and where did it lead to 21:03.920 --> 21:05.800 their business model was essentially 21:06.300 --> 21:07.960 and then the other thing was that they had 21:07.960 --> 21:09.400 you know Mark Andreessen 21:09.400 --> 21:11.400 it was a Mark Andreessen like Bellagio 21:11.400 --> 21:13.720 he was like a really 21:13.720 --> 21:15.680 you know fast riser working 21:15.680 --> 21:17.980 at Andreessen Horowitz he doesn't work at Andreessen Horowitz 21:17.980 --> 21:19.100 since their exit 21:20.920 --> 21:22.020 but what is 21:22.020 --> 21:24.240 the Mark Andreessen sort of camp now in the space 21:24.240 --> 21:25.700 well it's EAC right 21:26.320 --> 21:26.780 so 21:28.320 --> 21:29.580 what was there 21:29.580 --> 21:32.260 still exists that sort of like the Silicon Valley 21:33.280 --> 21:33.740 view 21:33.740 --> 21:36.100 but there was already at this time there was sort of like 21:36.100 --> 21:37.400 the Silicon Valley Democrat 21:37.770 --> 21:39.760 and then sort of like this kind of 21:40.760 --> 21:42.080 amorphous sort of all 21:44.280 --> 21:46.080 I wouldn't say it was a small block 21:46.080 --> 21:46.980 camp at the time 21:47.860 --> 21:48.880 but there was 21:48.880 --> 21:51.240 the overtime 21:51.240 --> 21:53.820 it ended up there 21:53.820 --> 21:56.000 and so you could sort of imagine that like 21:56.000 --> 21:58.100 the small block camp like you know took out 21:58.100 --> 22:00.540 you know it hit like Mark Andreessen 22:01.060 --> 22:01.880 around that 22:01.880 --> 22:04.220 around that time but part of the reason for it 22:04.220 --> 22:06.200 was like a conflict of capital because they're taking 22:06.200 --> 22:08.000 venture capital which is speculative 22:08.000 --> 22:10.040 capital and then you know trying to 22:10.040 --> 22:12.000 mine bitcoin with it and then they find 22:12.000 --> 22:13.780 that they just lose all their money very quickly 22:13.780 --> 22:15.720 right whereas if they just took that 22:15.720 --> 22:18.100 and did what Mike Haseyla is doing 22:18.100 --> 22:19.620 right if they just took that money 22:19.620 --> 22:21.780 and bought bitcoin with it it would have worked very well for them 22:21.780 --> 22:23.240 and I think that they still have 22:23.240 --> 22:25.580 I think Mark Andreessen still owns a very large 22:25.580 --> 22:27.220 number of coins to 22:27.220 --> 22:29.740 to this day and that's part of why he just kind of like 22:29.740 --> 22:31.920 sits quietly on the internet 22:31.920 --> 22:33.620 and doesn't talk about too much 22:34.280 --> 22:34.920 okay so 22:36.280 --> 22:37.400 before I interrupted 22:37.400 --> 22:39.180 what you were saying you were talking about 22:39.590 --> 22:41.180 that there was a point in time 22:41.180 --> 22:42.120 when 22:42.980 --> 22:44.540 in bitcoin history 22:44.540 --> 22:47.260 where things could have gone in a 22:47.260 --> 22:48.000 direction of 22:48.000 --> 22:49.760 which you saw 22:49.760 --> 22:52.040 you said that there was a 22:52.040 --> 22:54.300 a moment of time where 22:55.180 --> 22:56.940 what you saw in bitcoin was 22:56.940 --> 22:57.880 a take to 22:59.010 --> 22:59.900 incorporate this 23:00.990 --> 23:02.700 computational data market idea 23:02.700 --> 23:04.140 and just 23:04.140 --> 23:07.020 to move it forward as part 23:07.020 --> 23:09.060 of the bitcoin roadmap 23:09.060 --> 23:10.900 per se to market strategy 23:10.900 --> 23:12.820 yeah well there was this 23:12.820 --> 23:15.040 interesting dynamic of what bitcoin was becoming 23:15.040 --> 23:16.880 in 2017 with like 23:16.880 --> 23:18.760 starting to create these information 23:18.760 --> 23:20.500 markets with the time stamping 23:20.500 --> 23:22.220 and with 23:22.980 --> 23:24.980 Twitter events I think that was around the time 23:24.980 --> 23:26.480 that Jack Doisie came back to Twitter 23:27.460 --> 23:28.940 and he was running 23:28.940 --> 23:30.860 the Stripe Payment Company and he was trying to 23:30.860 --> 23:32.740 integrate those two behind the scenes 23:32.740 --> 23:34.720 he eventually made a cash 23:34.720 --> 23:37.080 app at Twitter and the guy 23:37.080 --> 23:38.460 who set up cash app and run 23:38.460 --> 23:40.420 all the bitcoin team there 23:41.240 --> 23:42.680 like they were all 23:42.680 --> 23:44.220 he was buddies with us 23:44.220 --> 23:46.620 with me and Andrew and everything 23:46.620 --> 23:48.540 and I think he's 23:48.540 --> 23:49.740 still floating around 23:49.740 --> 23:52.220 so there was that happening in the time 23:52.820 --> 23:54.940 and there was like a potential 23:54.940 --> 23:56.700 for bitcoin really to kind of 23:56.700 --> 23:58.460 take off a button this is sort of like 23:58.460 --> 24:00.340 before it did its original run to 10k 24:01.660 --> 24:02.820 really take off 24:02.820 --> 24:04.400 and become this 24:04.400 --> 24:07.020 sort of like become a social network 24:07.020 --> 24:08.920 essentially like around this time of 24:08.920 --> 24:09.880 2017 24:10.400 --> 24:12.520 and that kind of was what 24:12.520 --> 24:14.140 really like that amplification 24:14.140 --> 24:16.540 led to the hash 24:16.540 --> 24:18.120 war and the forks 24:18.120 --> 24:20.160 so that actual social media 24:20.160 --> 24:22.480 sort of amplified conflicts where the social 24:22.480 --> 24:24.000 media and the github repos 24:24.000 --> 24:26.620 like that wasn't secured on chain 24:26.620 --> 24:28.380 that wasn't secured by proof of 24:28.380 --> 24:29.580 work and it wasn't 24:29.580 --> 24:30.080 you know 24:30.800 --> 24:31.520 you know 24:32.080 --> 24:33.380 that ended up 24:34.080 --> 24:35.520 creating this event 24:35.870 --> 24:37.840 where bitcoin desynchronized and it turned 24:37.840 --> 24:39.760 into multiple chains 24:39.760 --> 24:41.960 a similar like much 24:41.960 --> 24:43.960 in response to that actually is like 24:43.960 --> 24:45.800 well I came from like the kind of 24:45.800 --> 24:47.540 GPU world 24:47.950 --> 24:49.760 where like yeah but these things called 24:49.760 --> 24:51.860 GPUs exist and you can just like compute 24:51.860 --> 24:53.780 all the bitcoins back together if you like 24:53.780 --> 24:55.260 and so I started 24:55.260 --> 24:57.860 to be the hyper dimensional bitcoin company 24:57.860 --> 24:59.600 which is like yeah we know that there's these 24:59.600 --> 25:01.840 three that there's these three different 25:03.020 --> 25:04.160 coins out there 25:04.160 --> 25:06.020 of like BTC and BCH 25:06.020 --> 25:07.900 and BSV each of them 25:07.900 --> 25:09.840 just they just represent one of the properties 25:09.840 --> 25:11.920 of money so if you get confused into 25:11.920 --> 25:13.900 like thinking that one of them is going to 25:13.900 --> 25:15.920 win against the other you don't know what's going on 25:15.920 --> 25:17.840 but if you know that they all 25:17.840 --> 25:19.960 run on the same standard and you can just buy and sell 25:19.960 --> 25:21.600 any of them an atomic swap and whatnot 25:22.440 --> 25:23.440 then if you just 25:23.440 --> 25:25.240 either like hold precoin 25:25.240 --> 25:27.540 pre fork coins that's the best thing to do 25:27.540 --> 25:29.340 but if you don't do that then just 25:29.340 --> 25:31.300 collect up a bunch of them manage them 25:31.300 --> 25:33.200 proportionally you know to their hash 25:33.200 --> 25:35.300 rate and then great you've just magicked 25:35.300 --> 25:37.380 up a fourth thing which is not 25:37.380 --> 25:38.500 any of these 25:39.600 --> 25:41.580 any of these isolated ones 25:41.580 --> 25:42.880 that are all in competition with each other 25:42.880 --> 25:45.320 those are more like pools so if you 25:45.320 --> 25:47.020 imagine that there's a 25:47.020 --> 25:49.280 hash power distribution well maybe 25:49.280 --> 25:50.980 you want to much more 25:50.980 --> 25:53.460 outweigh it to one thing or the other 25:53.460 --> 25:54.460 you got to look at the pricing 25:55.820 --> 25:57.560 but essentially we're like hey we can 25:57.560 --> 25:58.600 make this fourth thing 25:59.360 --> 26:01.180 we're going to use completely different words 26:01.180 --> 26:03.220 doesn't sound anything like it and we don't even 26:03.220 --> 26:05.300 care about the token we're going to look at 26:05.300 --> 26:06.340 there's a really like 26:07.040 --> 26:08.900 we always refer to it this is paper 26:09.340 --> 26:10.280 money is memory 26:11.380 --> 26:13.220 which is that from an infom if you look 26:13.220 --> 26:15.360 at all of these things like well first of all 26:15.360 --> 26:17.460 they're very similar in terms of the same chain 26:17.460 --> 26:19.240 like same networks you can look at the behavior 26:19.240 --> 26:20.240 and how people are interacting 26:20.840 --> 26:22.220 but you can look at that as 26:22.220 --> 26:23.080 you know as a tech 26:23.080 --> 26:26.260 from a technical standpoint as 26:26.260 --> 26:27.680 an information system like as 26:27.680 --> 26:29.800 a social network 26:29.800 --> 26:32.260 or you know a newspaper or 26:32.260 --> 26:33.940 a database or whichever other lens 26:33.940 --> 26:35.840 you want to take and put over it 26:36.420 --> 26:38.320 and that's part of how by the way like 26:38.320 --> 26:40.180 these AI ideas about 26:40.180 --> 26:42.100 well anything can be looked at as anything 26:42.100 --> 26:44.200 well Bitcoin sort of gave you the 26:44.200 --> 26:46.160 way to think about that around 26:46.160 --> 26:47.840 this time of like 2016 26:47.840 --> 26:49.480 2017 2018 26:49.480 --> 26:51.840 so if you're in Bitcoin around that 26:51.840 --> 26:53.940 time and interacting with the AI on Twitter 26:53.940 --> 26:55.660 via the recommendation system 26:55.660 --> 26:57.880 you are already learning these 26:57.880 --> 26:59.880 types of things that are now 26:59.880 --> 27:01.920 in the mainstream in the form of 27:01.920 --> 27:03.760 gen AI way back then 27:03.760 --> 27:05.480 right and so similarly 27:05.480 --> 27:08.080 like we were getting 27:08.700 --> 27:09.960 we were starting to think 27:09.960 --> 27:11.920 about well can we take those concepts 27:11.920 --> 27:13.420 and can we operationalize them 27:13.420 --> 27:15.940 so that we can create synthetic bitcoins 27:15.940 --> 27:17.640 so that you can go well I want to 27:17.640 --> 27:19.100 I want a New Zealand Bitcoin 27:19.100 --> 27:21.480 with all these properties and everything 27:21.480 --> 27:23.560 and it's very much like the ESG system 27:23.560 --> 27:25.780 behind BlackRock they just run a bunch of GPUs 27:25.780 --> 27:27.480 hold a bunch of capital and then go 27:27.480 --> 27:29.640 they make their synthetic derivative which is like 27:29.640 --> 27:31.640 here is like tree coin 27:31.640 --> 27:32.720 you know tree dollar 27:33.220 --> 27:35.360 right or whatever else 27:35.360 --> 27:36.840 that they might want to incentivize 27:37.640 --> 27:39.940 each week and that sort of like 27:39.940 --> 27:42.120 you know in that COVID kind of period 27:42.120 --> 27:44.020 before chat GPT came out 27:44.020 --> 27:46.100 but where the AI was getting rolled out 27:46.100 --> 27:47.180 and it was all becoming like 27:47.800 --> 27:49.680 extremely hyper capitalized 27:49.680 --> 27:52.080 you had a lot of this very strange 27:52.080 --> 27:54.320 identity capitalist 27:55.340 --> 27:56.660 dynamics going on 27:56.660 --> 27:58.540 because there was a certain amount of money 27:58.540 --> 28:00.480 over like you changing the color 28:00.480 --> 28:01.460 you're here for example 28:01.780 --> 28:04.160 and if you actually know 28:04.160 --> 28:06.260 how GPUs are deployed 28:06.260 --> 28:08.080 on Wall Street how a lot of these 28:08.080 --> 28:10.180 like incentives and financials 28:10.180 --> 28:11.720 like to the degree to which 28:11.720 --> 28:13.260 a US dollar 28:13.260 --> 28:14.920 you know you got real 28:15.520 --> 28:17.780 value in exchange and then you've got speculative 28:17.780 --> 28:19.680 liquid derivatives capital 28:19.680 --> 28:21.600 capital if you understand that 28:21.600 --> 28:23.640 well every time you go do one thing 28:23.640 --> 28:25.220 then if other people see that 28:25.220 --> 28:27.040 then it can go viral on the internet 28:27.040 --> 28:29.680 and you know somebody can spend 28:29.680 --> 28:31.580 like it was like the George Floyd thing 28:31.580 --> 28:33.320 with like a fake $20 note 28:33.320 --> 28:35.540 and then it's like the Domino's meme 28:35.540 --> 28:36.960 you know that turns into 28:38.140 --> 28:39.880 whatever right are you following 28:39.880 --> 28:42.040 dude you blew my mind because 28:42.040 --> 28:43.860 you just made me realize that 28:43.860 --> 28:45.640 Bitcoin is not one of these coins 28:45.640 --> 28:47.060 it's all of them 28:47.060 --> 28:49.780 and what you're saying pretty much is that you can take 28:49.780 --> 28:50.200 a 28:51.960 --> 28:53.620 representation of a derivative 28:53.620 --> 28:55.860 of Hovery 1L 28:55.860 --> 28:58.700 a derivative of all three of them 28:58.700 --> 29:00.500 and each one of them 29:00.500 --> 29:02.000 represents different aspects 29:02.000 --> 29:04.280 of Bitcoin that sit in potential 29:04.280 --> 29:06.080 that can be actualized 29:06.080 --> 29:07.360 and 29:08.600 --> 29:10.660 and yeah you're blowing my mind 29:10.660 --> 29:11.580 because I'm 29:11.580 --> 29:14.160 I'm realizing now that 29:15.340 --> 29:17.380 the hash that goes into 29:17.380 --> 29:19.200 each coin is proportional 29:19.200 --> 29:21.240 to the amount of awareness 29:21.240 --> 29:23.380 that people have regarding that 29:23.380 --> 29:24.720 aspect of Bitcoin 29:25.920 --> 29:27.320 yes so I mean 29:27.320 --> 29:30.100 in a neural network like they call it the attention mechanism right 29:30.100 --> 29:31.780 yes I get it 29:31.780 --> 29:33.800 so 100% the same 29:33.800 --> 29:35.880 like dynamic this is sort of 29:35.880 --> 29:38.300 this is like what money is and how money works 29:38.300 --> 29:39.060 so 29:39.060 --> 29:41.560 but when I say kind of Bitcoin now 29:41.560 --> 29:43.260 it's not really because Bitcoin got 29:43.800 --> 29:45.840 broken up into its constituent parts 29:46.400 --> 29:47.940 so you actually have to 29:47.940 --> 29:49.420 have a certain amount of 29:49.420 --> 29:51.380 technical expertise to know 29:51.380 --> 29:53.300 how can I make a derivative 29:53.800 --> 29:56.080 that glues these things back together again 29:56.080 --> 29:57.800 so that when I spend a little bit of BTC 29:57.800 --> 29:58.640 and a little bit of BSH 29:59.300 --> 30:01.140 they go back together again and like 30:02.320 --> 30:04.300 so you guys are working on that 30:05.260 --> 30:06.660 well so this is like 30:06.660 --> 30:08.160 how I really like 30:08.160 --> 30:09.780 viewed things in 2020 30:10.300 --> 30:12.080 and like late 2019 30:12.080 --> 30:14.020 and 2020 is that you could see this 30:14.020 --> 30:15.960 emerging like computational 30:15.960 --> 30:17.540 data market if you use those lens 30:17.540 --> 30:20.260 you could see the big picture of like what Bitcoin 30:20.260 --> 30:21.720 is and what it was becoming 30:21.720 --> 30:24.060 and it's like a really practical way like 30:24.060 --> 30:26.160 non speculative now of like well 30:26.160 --> 30:27.640 if you want to look at XAI 30:28.080 --> 30:29.940 and like Riot platforms 30:29.940 --> 30:31.720 in Texas like and 30:31.720 --> 30:33.880 and lots of other like and Nvidia and everything 30:33.880 --> 30:35.920 in the same market which they were before 30:35.920 --> 30:37.680 because Nvidia was Ethereum mining 30:37.680 --> 30:40.060 right if you want to just look at the market 30:40.060 --> 30:41.700 now so just a really good 30:41.700 --> 30:43.060 term to describe 30:43.570 --> 30:45.460 what is going on and I would just say 30:45.460 --> 30:47.740 sort of say like hey computational data 30:47.740 --> 30:49.640 market is really just like a collective term 30:49.640 --> 30:51.080 for like 30:51.570 --> 30:53.980 proof of work hashes like you manufacture 30:53.980 --> 30:55.540 those and sell them to the Chinese 30:55.540 --> 30:57.660 cool NFT is great 30:57.660 --> 30:59.580 you like you do some rendering on your laptop 30:59.580 --> 31:01.560 and you put it on the blockchain and that's a 31:01.560 --> 31:03.800 computational thing and you sell it to the Chinese 31:03.800 --> 31:04.820 cool right 31:05.560 --> 31:07.620 and it but the scope of 31:08.340 --> 31:09.720 that you know that scope is like 31:09.720 --> 31:11.000 being increasing there's like 31:11.580 --> 31:13.660 in the sort of like 2022 era 31:13.660 --> 31:15.360 there's a lot of like a lot of people talking about 31:15.360 --> 31:17.580 zero knowledge proofs well the zero knowledge 31:17.580 --> 31:19.600 proof is also sort of like a computational 31:19.600 --> 31:20.340 data product 31:21.520 --> 31:23.480 right and there's a huge 31:23.480 --> 31:25.560 amount of things like the weather report is 31:25.560 --> 31:27.720 a computational data product because they run 31:27.720 --> 31:29.480 the government run supercomputer simulations 31:30.120 --> 31:31.700 right and then they like put it 31:31.700 --> 31:33.560 on the news and you consume it as a media product 31:33.560 --> 31:35.720 so so the actual sort of 31:35.720 --> 31:37.500 scope of potential like 31:37.500 --> 31:40.240 applications and I was sort of working on that 31:40.240 --> 31:41.660 you know before before I was 31:41.660 --> 31:43.380 selling us that was like my 31:43.960 --> 31:45.220 what I the 31:45.220 --> 31:47.540 the speculation we were kind of 31:47.540 --> 31:49.580 kind of running with to say 31:49.580 --> 31:51.800 here's where we think this is going to go to 31:51.800 --> 31:53.620 and if we work on this now in 2020 31:53.620 --> 31:55.600 then by the time 2030 31:55.600 --> 31:57.740 like has come along 31:57.740 --> 31:59.060 this will all have just happened 31:59.600 --> 32:01.440 right and we're sort of halfway 32:01.440 --> 32:03.440 through that and it kind of you know 32:03.440 --> 32:05.400 it's it's started to happen 32:05.400 --> 32:07.660 at this point essentially and if you 32:07.660 --> 32:09.620 at least have that if you 32:09.620 --> 32:11.540 have gone through that period and you knew that back 32:11.540 --> 32:13.720 then then that is 32:13.720 --> 32:15.620 like really practical because it can actually 32:15.620 --> 32:17.420 help you separate like filter out 32:17.420 --> 32:19.700 the signal and the noise right now 32:19.700 --> 32:21.800 and like not get scammed 32:21.800 --> 32:24.080 like Sam Altman is like really bad 32:24.080 --> 32:25.400 and like he doesn't know how to 32:25.900 --> 32:27.720 he doesn't have any way of determining 32:28.260 --> 32:29.960 what's real or not when he's confronted 32:29.960 --> 32:31.960 with some like do I spend a huge amount of money on 32:31.960 --> 32:34.040 some AI project right 100% I agree 32:34.040 --> 32:36.000 like like we were a little bit 32:36.000 --> 32:38.180 ahead of it like we were kind of late 32:38.180 --> 32:40.060 or you say like we were 32:40.060 --> 32:42.080 we were started later then open 32:42.080 --> 32:43.980 AI but before but sort of like 32:43.980 --> 32:45.880 while they were kind of lagging behind 32:45.880 --> 32:48.140 essentially like before they made this like transformers pivot 32:48.900 --> 32:50.100 and I met the open AI 32:50.100 --> 32:51.960 guys like back in sort of 2018 32:51.960 --> 32:53.980 or something and they'll know we're all like 32:53.980 --> 32:55.940 white boarding like how much compute can fit 32:55.940 --> 32:56.920 into the entire universe 32:58.240 --> 32:59.980 you know can you can is in 32:59.980 --> 33:01.600 the entire universe that you could potentially 33:01.600 --> 33:02.780 that you could potentially harness 33:04.260 --> 33:06.040 and you know and and I was like 33:06.040 --> 33:07.220 yeah to mine bitcoins right 33:07.840 --> 33:08.280 and 33:09.860 --> 33:10.720 right and 33:11.440 --> 33:13.940 they were already working with it and video at the time 33:13.940 --> 33:14.340 and 33:17.120 --> 33:17.560 but 33:19.200 --> 33:20.080 I have a question 33:20.080 --> 33:20.860 yep 33:21.660 --> 33:24.020 so I was just going to make a comment on this open AI 33:24.020 --> 33:24.560 so 33:27.400 --> 33:28.400 around this 33:28.400 --> 33:29.460 I think it was 33:29.460 --> 33:31.080 in early 2022 33:31.920 --> 33:33.740 when all the stablecoins were 33:33.740 --> 33:35.120 were blowing up 33:36.980 --> 33:38.120 and there was 33:38.120 --> 33:39.960 sort of like there was 33:39.960 --> 33:41.480 around the time that in videos 33:42.700 --> 33:44.080 I think that there was this 33:44.080 --> 33:45.680 like COVID peak in the market 33:45.680 --> 33:47.840 when the market then the interest rates changed 33:47.840 --> 33:49.440 and like Tesla crashed hard 33:49.440 --> 33:50.720 and Nvidia crashed hard 33:50.720 --> 33:53.640 and everything and this was in the lead up to them 33:53.640 --> 33:55.420 turning off all the GPUs on Ethereum 33:56.940 --> 33:57.420 that 33:57.420 --> 33:59.820 essentially like after they turned off all the GPUs 33:59.820 --> 34:02.180 on Ethereum like a chat GPT came out 34:02.180 --> 34:03.660 and so there was this 34:03.660 --> 34:05.340 very clear shift of 34:05.340 --> 34:07.500 the market as it was running 34:07.500 --> 34:08.980 with like FTX and so forth 34:08.980 --> 34:11.440 to like a very new market where 34:11.440 --> 34:13.480 things were happening behind the scenes where like 34:13.480 --> 34:15.620 GPUs going out there and like starting to run the economy 34:15.620 --> 34:17.680 now like became the economy 34:17.680 --> 34:19.640 in late 2022 34:20.560 --> 34:22.000 and I in the first 34:22.000 --> 34:23.860 two years a bit sort of two years a bit 34:23.860 --> 34:25.960 yeah business like we were all on 34:25.960 --> 34:27.240 Nvidia like we were all 34:27.240 --> 34:29.520 so I was sold on the Nvidia vision of like 34:29.520 --> 34:31.860 we got a new GPUs and Bitcoin and everything 34:31.860 --> 34:33.580 and part of the first two years 34:33.580 --> 34:35.460 the business just like sitting at home in New Zealand 34:35.460 --> 34:37.880 as we like well we didn't get 34:37.880 --> 34:39.460 we weren't out there in market 34:39.460 --> 34:41.520 like delivering products 34:41.520 --> 34:42.960 to customers and so forth 34:44.280 --> 34:44.760 and 34:44.760 --> 34:46.980 and so we just missed out 34:46.980 --> 34:48.800 on that like the chatbots came and like 34:48.800 --> 34:49.840 we weren't doing that at all 34:49.840 --> 34:52.460 we had this like computational data market thing 34:52.460 --> 34:54.420 we were still trying to end like nobody cared because like 34:54.420 --> 34:56.700 they don't know like the language models that you know 34:56.700 --> 34:57.440 they come first 34:59.400 --> 34:59.880 and 35:01.400 --> 35:02.940 but in 2020 35:02.940 --> 35:04.900 in late 2020 the Mac 35:04.900 --> 35:06.340 mini came out like the 35:06.760 --> 35:08.720 sorry Apple Silicon came out the first 35:08.720 --> 35:10.180 the first product 35:10.180 --> 35:12.120 was a development kit 35:13.340 --> 35:14.340 of the Mac mini 35:14.340 --> 35:16.200 and the other things that came out in 35:16.200 --> 35:18.240 2020 was iPhone shipped with 35:18.240 --> 35:19.480 the LiDAR sensor in it 35:20.180 --> 35:22.120 which I view that is like 35:22.120 --> 35:24.340 quite interesting at the time because it's like these 35:25.280 --> 35:26.180 points that 35:26.180 --> 35:27.900 that get picked up think of it like a 35:27.900 --> 35:30.180 like a Bitcoin miner LiDAR scanner 35:30.180 --> 35:32.100 kind of does a similar similar thing 35:33.040 --> 35:34.440 and that you can go like 35:34.440 --> 35:36.240 let's scan lots of points around and like collect 35:36.240 --> 35:38.580 back the feedback collect up the feedback 35:38.580 --> 35:39.620 but 35:39.620 --> 35:41.840 in between the two was the 35:41.840 --> 35:44.700 was the new consoles the Xbox Series X 35:44.700 --> 35:45.980 and the PS5 35:46.360 --> 35:48.420 and they shipped with what's called 35:48.420 --> 35:50.580 computational storage so they 35:50.580 --> 35:52.700 shipped with the SSD and the GPU 35:53.440 --> 35:54.480 already starting 35:54.480 --> 35:56.480 to do this like computational 35:57.580 --> 35:58.220 data 35:59.420 --> 36:00.720 pipelines where the 36:00.720 --> 36:02.340 geometry and the levels and the maps 36:02.340 --> 36:04.880 they would regenerate themselves constantly so 36:04.880 --> 36:06.680 think of it like an ASIC 36:06.680 --> 36:08.660 like an Xbox Series X 36:08.660 --> 36:10.540 in 2020 look to me 36:11.240 --> 36:12.800 like a like an ASIC 36:12.800 --> 36:14.740 for what has 36:14.740 --> 36:16.680 become gen AI but actually it 36:16.680 --> 36:18.340 hasn't become that yet because it doesn't have 36:18.340 --> 36:20.180 persistent storage so 36:20.180 --> 36:22.560 you ask an AI something and it forgets about it 36:22.560 --> 36:24.180 you can't like use your 36:24.180 --> 36:26.500 AI and then like work on one project for 36:26.500 --> 36:28.380 like five years it like forgets 36:28.380 --> 36:30.400 it's like your file system like 36:30.400 --> 36:32.580 resets itself every five minutes right they 36:32.580 --> 36:34.460 haven't figured out how to run the memory 36:34.460 --> 36:36.140 management yet so 36:36.140 --> 36:37.560 in 2022 36:39.440 --> 36:40.400 I think 36:40.400 --> 36:42.580 I like in late 2020 I had 36:42.580 --> 36:44.420 one Mac mini and like the guy 36:44.420 --> 36:46.520 who did his internship on the 36:46.520 --> 36:48.600 Mac mini like he had a great time 36:48.600 --> 36:50.580 and and he already had a job 36:50.580 --> 36:52.500 lined up after his internship or whatever he works 36:52.500 --> 36:54.600 a block now and and he had 36:54.600 --> 36:56.720 an awesome time and then like everyone who's 36:56.720 --> 36:58.620 like doing Linux development and I would 36:58.620 --> 37:00.420 be adamant like we have to buy the shittiest 37:00.420 --> 37:02.180 cheapest like $1,000 37:02.180 --> 37:04.120 you know like PC and video 10 37:04.120 --> 37:06.120 50 boxes from 37:06.120 --> 37:08.340 the PC store like they were 37:08.340 --> 37:10.480 miserable and so like by the time 37:11.120 --> 37:12.200 like late 2021 37:12.200 --> 37:14.320 came around and we had like seven or 37:14.320 --> 37:15.480 eight interns or something that summer 37:16.400 --> 37:18.020 I just bought every on a Mac mini 37:18.680 --> 37:20.400 because I was like you know this is 37:20.400 --> 37:22.240 going to be much more much nicer much 37:22.240 --> 37:24.220 more standardized everyone can have a really good 37:24.220 --> 37:26.180 experience they don't feel like they were fucked over because 37:26.180 --> 37:28.400 they got the you know they picked the short straw 37:28.400 --> 37:30.320 of the of the intern computer 37:30.320 --> 37:32.740 and in the end of that 37:34.680 --> 37:36.300 summer one of the interns 37:36.300 --> 37:38.540 came to me his name is Dylan and he 37:38.540 --> 37:40.280 like walks into the office 37:40.280 --> 37:42.760 like one day and he's just like hey Mark 37:43.360 --> 37:44.440 I ported the 37:44.440 --> 37:46.620 minor I optimize the minor to the 37:46.620 --> 37:48.500 char instructions in the 37:48.500 --> 37:49.280 in the Mac mini 37:50.400 --> 37:52.220 and I had this like 37:52.220 --> 37:54.560 $17,000 Super Micro 37:54.560 --> 37:56.360 server like fold within 37:56.360 --> 37:57.420 video GPUs 37:59.280 --> 37:59.720 and 37:59.720 --> 38:01.220 his optimized because 38:01.220 --> 38:03.380 because Nvidia GPU doesn't have 38:03.380 --> 38:05.380 char instructions in it but an arm 38:05.380 --> 38:07.500 chip does but to until 38:07.500 --> 38:09.460 the Mac mini came along an arm chip was like 38:09.460 --> 38:11.740 a crappy mobile like you know Raspberry Pi 38:11.740 --> 38:13.580 type of thing so although it was good 38:13.580 --> 38:15.500 it still wasn't as as much 38:15.500 --> 38:17.320 and in practice for like giving a certain 38:17.320 --> 38:19.440 capacity and you couldn't like you wouldn't do 38:19.440 --> 38:21.500 your work on it if somebody got given like 38:21.500 --> 38:23.440 a Raspberry Pi on Nvidia I had lots of 38:23.440 --> 38:25.360 those Nvidia armboards they're like this big 38:25.360 --> 38:27.360 I don't know where they are I think somebody took them 38:27.360 --> 38:29.500 some point they were like kind of 38:29.500 --> 38:31.020 worthless to me after the Mac mini 38:32.360 --> 38:33.220 I realized 38:33.220 --> 38:35.540 well you know the Mac mini is good enough to be 38:35.540 --> 38:37.480 a computer to the point that 38:37.480 --> 38:39.440 it's better than an Intel an Intel 38:39.440 --> 38:41.620 chip right and so 38:41.620 --> 38:43.580 you could say like the market didn't really 38:43.580 --> 38:45.060 kind of cotton on to like how 38:45.060 --> 38:47.220 and good how good Nvidia was disrupting 38:47.220 --> 38:49.260 the Intel chip until 38:49.260 --> 38:51.380 2022 but actually 38:52.360 --> 38:53.600 Intel got disrupted 38:53.600 --> 38:55.500 not by Nvidia but by 38:55.500 --> 38:57.000 Apple in 2020 38:57.600 --> 38:58.900 right and 38:59.460 --> 39:01.460 yeah and so Dylan like he comes to me 39:01.460 --> 39:03.660 and I had by this time 39:03.660 --> 39:05.600 this was like not the first company that I was 39:05.600 --> 39:07.400 like working with Nvidia 39:07.400 --> 39:09.240 you know development kits and CUDA and 39:09.240 --> 39:11.440 shit and and there's 39:11.440 --> 39:13.560 there's a there's a meme like anybody who works full 39:13.560 --> 39:15.440 time on on on Nvidia 39:15.440 --> 39:17.740 they're used to running on there like a Buntu 39:18.640 --> 39:19.680 laptop pseudo 39:19.680 --> 39:21.460 apt-get purge 39:21.460 --> 39:23.180 Nvidia dash star 39:23.180 --> 39:25.300 which is like delete every single piece of 39:25.300 --> 39:27.100 Nvidia software from my computer because 39:27.100 --> 39:29.280 it's all broken and not working again and I need 39:29.280 --> 39:31.320 to reinstall it from scratch that's like 39:31.320 --> 39:33.120 a regular development workflow that you always 39:33.120 --> 39:35.540 go through and so I had spent all this 39:35.540 --> 39:37.340 money on these like loud expensive you know 39:37.340 --> 39:39.360 super micro servers and everything and people 39:39.360 --> 39:40.720 having a miserable time on 39:41.370 --> 39:43.000 like g-force cards and 39:43.000 --> 39:45.080 and and and what not 39:45.080 --> 39:45.640 and 39:46.820 --> 39:47.320 and 39:48.960 --> 39:51.920 and and and and he came and told me that like hey this 39:51.920 --> 39:52.520 thing works 39:52.520 --> 39:54.320 it's faster than the server 39:54.320 --> 39:55.760 and it's like you know 39:56.820 --> 39:57.760 1099 New Zealand 39:57.760 --> 40:00.000 dollars so I I literally just like 40:00.000 --> 40:01.920 did not buy a single new 40:02.560 --> 40:03.880 actually I did buy a couple 40:03.880 --> 40:05.200 for some like 3d people 40:06.040 --> 40:06.820 on and 40:06.820 --> 40:09.840 you know after that I think after that 40:09.840 --> 40:11.880 but but basically that 40:11.880 --> 40:12.980 was the end of ever 40:12.980 --> 40:15.820 I've ever using any Nvidia hardware for anything 40:15.820 --> 40:17.860 anymore because an apple is like 40:17.860 --> 40:19.120 the mortal enemy of Nvidia 40:19.900 --> 40:21.720 but but it was 40:21.720 --> 40:23.700 faster you know it was 40:23.700 --> 40:25.900 more well suited for what 40:25.900 --> 40:27.960 we were doing and then what's interesting 40:27.960 --> 40:29.540 about the Apple Silicon 40:29.540 --> 40:31.960 was that it's a it's a what's 40:31.960 --> 40:34.260 called an APU which is it's a fusion 40:34.260 --> 40:35.780 of a CPU and a GPU 40:35.780 --> 40:37.660 they share the same memory the CPU 40:37.660 --> 40:39.880 uses the GPU memory the GPU uses 40:39.880 --> 40:41.980 CPU memory so whenever you deal with anything 40:41.980 --> 40:44.200 in an Nvidia system you're burning 40:44.200 --> 40:46.020 electricity and you're creating 40:46.480 --> 40:48.580 all this lag and slowness 40:48.580 --> 40:50.320 and the code is all 40:50.320 --> 40:52.440 high complexity because you're having to move 40:52.440 --> 40:54.280 data from the CPU 40:54.280 --> 40:56.160 to the GPU memory constantly back and forth 40:56.160 --> 40:58.300 right and like this is what I did and 40:58.300 --> 41:00.240 you know like he taught me like this 41:00.240 --> 41:02.260 is yeah this is what the orthodox do we 41:02.260 --> 41:04.100 just like make sure all of the memories are like 41:04.100 --> 41:06.240 all unified memory all the time and 41:06.240 --> 41:08.560 like the more I learned about like computer architecture 41:08.560 --> 41:10.360 the more you go like okay yeah yeah 41:10.360 --> 41:12.280 those guys might know what's going on they know 41:12.280 --> 41:14.100 how the computers work and like 41:14.100 --> 41:16.260 and like as a backup like if the computers 41:16.260 --> 41:18.060 like if they keep on breaking then well 41:18.060 --> 41:20.040 like we can just go there and talk to them and then 41:20.040 --> 41:21.920 like the Bitcoin monastery 41:21.920 --> 41:24.260 is entered and guided the way 41:24.260 --> 41:26.160 nice yeah it's like a Mac mini 41:26.160 --> 41:28.400 is like it's a step on the way to the Bitcoin monastery 41:28.400 --> 41:30.300 basically if you if you like really want 41:30.300 --> 41:32.300 to be extremely a power efficient we don't 41:32.300 --> 41:34.580 need a computer at all that you know 41:34.580 --> 41:36.160 that you know how to do this but the difficulty 41:36.160 --> 41:38.200 you know the difficulty goes up so that's 41:38.200 --> 41:40.180 basically what what what happened what we 41:40.180 --> 41:42.400 could see and it like like I said right 41:42.400 --> 41:43.640 that there was a sort of like 41:44.480 --> 41:46.200 era and like 2017 41:46.200 --> 41:48.180 where Bitcoin gave you the ability to 41:48.180 --> 41:49.880 like see what was going on in the market 41:51.040 --> 41:51.840 without like 41:52.240 --> 41:54.200 relying on the mainstream news to like 41:54.200 --> 41:56.140 tell you what state of the art is like they're 41:56.140 --> 41:58.240 telling you what the state of the art was like four or five 41:58.240 --> 42:00.060 years ago when you're seeing anything there right 42:00.060 --> 42:02.400 because being de-risked at that point it's like de-risked 42:02.400 --> 42:04.220 to the point that like like okay billions 42:04.220 --> 42:06.080 of people can know about this and like no harm is gonna 42:06.080 --> 42:08.220 it's gonna come to it whereas like when 42:08.220 --> 42:10.220 anything that's actually like happening right 42:10.220 --> 42:12.300 at this moment you know is is 42:12.300 --> 42:14.860 is much more tumultuous you don't even just 42:14.860 --> 42:16.240 like people knowing about it and talking 42:16.240 --> 42:19.600 about it right and you can see like when there goes 42:19.600 --> 42:21.580 badly like like with COVID 42:22.940 --> 42:23.700 right because 42:23.700 --> 42:24.680 there's like if there's a big 42:24.680 --> 42:27.080 sort of reaction and then like word gets 42:27.080 --> 42:28.580 out then then all of the 42:28.580 --> 42:30.640 second order effects of like trying to 42:30.640 --> 42:32.020 manage the public 42:32.020 --> 42:34.640 like cause much more harm and damage than 42:34.640 --> 42:36.360 of course than than 42:36.360 --> 42:37.500 than the underlying 42:38.440 --> 42:40.220 thing right but if you don't have a secured information 42:40.220 --> 42:42.480 system then then then you really struggle with that 42:43.400 --> 42:44.240 so there is 42:44.700 --> 42:46.520 so so so I'll just like finish that 42:46.520 --> 42:48.460 point basically that there was a sort of like information 42:48.460 --> 42:50.600 system sort of like era with like 42:50.600 --> 42:52.340 Jack Dorsey you know coming back into 42:52.340 --> 42:54.120 Twitter eventually you know Jack Dorsey 42:54.120 --> 42:56.440 leaving Twitter but in this like 2020 period 42:56.440 --> 42:58.140 it was very much just like computational 42:58.140 --> 43:00.300 data market like concept which is you 43:00.300 --> 43:02.340 could see that hey the Nvidia GPU 43:02.340 --> 43:04.220 is about to become the Bitcoin minor 43:04.220 --> 43:06.540 right the Bitcoin that the 43:06.540 --> 43:08.320 the capital market 43:08.320 --> 43:09.940 like forces behind Bitcoin 43:09.940 --> 43:12.580 for like concentrating capital and energy 43:13.260 --> 43:14.340 that's going to 43:14.340 --> 43:16.180 move to and I was working on these like big 43:16.180 --> 43:18.320 Nvidia like supercomputers at the time like 43:18.320 --> 43:20.240 2017 you could not convince 43:20.240 --> 43:22.420 a single data center or enterprise data 43:22.420 --> 43:24.100 center over to put one 43:24.100 --> 43:26.320 Nvidia GPU anywhere near any enterprise 43:26.320 --> 43:28.440 data right so like thinking about 43:28.440 --> 43:29.700 just the transition that 43:30.120 --> 43:32.060 has made since then 43:32.600 --> 43:34.000 it's quite it's quite 43:34.000 --> 43:35.860 significant so that was sort of like the speculation 43:35.860 --> 43:37.840 around this 2020 period 43:37.840 --> 43:40.100 it's all kind of like a general I tried trying 43:40.100 --> 43:42.040 not to like like tell put too many 43:42.040 --> 43:44.320 new ideas out there and I'm still like cleaning up that project 43:44.320 --> 43:46.260 so it's still a good phrase and you 43:46.260 --> 43:47.860 can see like well now you can learn 43:47.860 --> 43:50.240 actually what's going on and maybe 43:50.240 --> 43:51.440 like a little bit of what's happening 43:51.980 --> 43:53.840 because of in the last 43:53.840 --> 43:56.200 four years in the last halving period 43:57.800 --> 44:00.040 the like the meta game 44:00.780 --> 44:02.620 moved from this like social 44:02.620 --> 44:04.360 media critical infrastructure 44:04.360 --> 44:06.280 to the 44:06.280 --> 44:07.660 computational data markets 44:07.660 --> 44:10.200 alright and so we're now in 44:10.200 --> 44:11.600 in the next halving 44:12.320 --> 44:14.040 where you know I wouldn't say like 44:14.040 --> 44:16.080 I'm not sort of like we're not running on 44:16.080 --> 44:17.700 full steam like speculation 44:18.660 --> 44:19.980 but there was this 44:20.760 --> 44:22.140 yeah so I was 44:22.140 --> 44:24.020 making a point about the Mac Mini basically like 44:24.020 --> 44:25.980 at the start of the at the start 44:25.980 --> 44:27.980 of that halving period it was sort of like this 44:27.980 --> 44:29.280 early 44:29.280 --> 44:29.620 early 44:31.160 --> 44:33.340 contenders of the PS5 44:33.340 --> 44:34.720 and the Xbox Series X 44:34.720 --> 44:37.380 because they were hardware that looked 44:37.380 --> 44:39.200 very close to the ideal 44:39.200 --> 44:40.420 sort of ASIC 44:40.420 --> 44:41.780 if you wanted to 44:41.780 --> 44:45.460 do what at the time 44:45.460 --> 44:46.800 was called computational storage 44:46.800 --> 44:48.420 now it's called Gen AI 44:48.420 --> 44:50.360 if they opened up those platforms 44:50.360 --> 44:52.620 then everybody wouldn't be like running 44:52.620 --> 44:55.980 expensive broken like overpriced 44:55.980 --> 44:58.020 Microsoft Azure and Microsoft Azure would 44:58.020 --> 44:59.760 be out of business because the 44:59.760 --> 45:01.880 Xbox Series X development kit would have like 45:01.880 --> 45:03.860 become the Mac Mini and the 45:03.860 --> 45:05.860 H100 and taken over the whole market 45:05.860 --> 45:07.840 Xbox Series X and the PlayStation 45:07.840 --> 45:09.640 they're locked down platforms 45:09.640 --> 45:12.060 literally everybody forgot those consoles even 45:12.060 --> 45:14.080 existed in the last halving 45:14.080 --> 45:16.020 because they were so caught up in all these other 45:16.020 --> 45:18.000 like you know real-time events 45:18.000 --> 45:20.040 like x.com you know 45:20.040 --> 45:21.780 Twitter scrolling every day with all the events 45:21.780 --> 45:23.980 Xbox entertainment like 45:23.980 --> 45:26.120 really really bad 45:26.120 --> 45:27.640 in comparison it's like 45:27.640 --> 45:29.540 they may have had good at great hardware 45:29.540 --> 45:31.740 but everybody at Microsoft 45:31.740 --> 45:34.120 was off playing the Nvidia AI game 45:34.120 --> 45:34.760 on Azure 45:35.720 --> 45:38.020 and so I recognized like hey 45:38.020 --> 45:40.040 this Mac Mini thing not only is 45:40.040 --> 45:42.120 already just faster at doing all the stuff that I want 45:42.120 --> 45:43.740 but all the other GPU 45:43.740 --> 45:46.220 algorithms that we wanted to run over lots of memory 45:48.680 --> 45:50.060 you didn't have to deal 45:50.060 --> 45:51.880 with this moving data around 45:51.880 --> 45:53.520 and having like two you know 45:53.520 --> 45:55.120 in order to have the data in the host 45:55.120 --> 45:57.100 you had to load the data into your CPU memory 45:57.100 --> 45:58.880 before you can load it into GPU memory 45:58.880 --> 46:00.660 which means you have to have like for every one 46:00.660 --> 46:02.540 gigabyte of GPU memory you need to have 46:02.540 --> 46:05.040 you need to have also another gigabyte of CPU memory 46:05.040 --> 46:06.160 essentially right 46:07.200 --> 46:08.420 because on a PC 46:08.420 --> 46:11.100 you can't read data like the Xbox does 46:11.100 --> 46:12.940 where it reads it straight off the SSD 46:12.940 --> 46:15.120 into the GPU and even to do that on Xbox 46:15.120 --> 46:16.420 it's a special graphics API 46:17.680 --> 46:19.460 so you have to like load it into 46:19.460 --> 46:21.520 system RAM and then copy it into your 46:21.520 --> 46:23.860 GPU. Now the PS5 46:23.860 --> 46:25.540 is an APU and both 46:25.540 --> 46:27.260 of these hardware platforms are from 46:27.260 --> 46:27.900 AMD 46:29.740 --> 46:31.480 on the PS5 46:31.480 --> 46:33.380 it's how they did it 46:33.380 --> 46:35.860 without like being Microsoft and making DirectX 46:36.660 --> 46:37.650 the PS5 46:37.980 --> 46:39.680 operating system is a BSD 46:39.680 --> 46:41.520 operating system so it's actually 46:41.520 --> 46:43.280 quite similar to macOS 46:45.420 --> 46:47.480 it's like one of these AMD 46:47.480 --> 46:48.840 APU chips 46:49.280 --> 46:51.260 that have it's kind of like 46:51.260 --> 46:53.620 how the Intel laptops they come 46:53.620 --> 46:54.880 with a little integrated GPU 46:54.880 --> 46:57.440 but the AMD one is like a real GPU 46:57.440 --> 46:59.320 instead of a crappy broken knockoff 46:59.320 --> 47:01.380 so when Apple when the Mac mini 47:01.380 --> 47:03.440 when Apple Silicon launched 47:03.440 --> 47:05.320 that was Apple 47:05.320 --> 47:07.180 not just shifting off of Intel 47:07.180 --> 47:09.440 but they also had the best 47:09.440 --> 47:11.240 GPUs you know in the industry 47:11.240 --> 47:13.400 full control like 47:13.400 --> 47:15.740 driver stack of their own 47:15.740 --> 47:17.800 right like massive hyper commodity 47:17.800 --> 47:18.320 market 47:19.500 --> 47:21.720 and exactly the form factor 47:21.720 --> 47:23.680 for the rest of the device and it had a neural engine in there 47:23.680 --> 47:24.900 right so already had an AI 47:24.900 --> 47:27.460 ASIC in there alongside the 47:27.460 --> 47:29.720 char instructions and everything we didn't learn later 47:29.720 --> 47:31.500 about the thunderbolt thing 47:31.500 --> 47:33.400 and that was just like you know 47:33.400 --> 47:35.400 a massive cherry on 47:35.400 --> 47:36.960 on on on top and 47:36.960 --> 47:39.620 and sort of that really only came about 47:39.620 --> 47:41.300 maybe like not 47:41.300 --> 47:43.760 not quite like 12 months but maybe like nine months 47:43.760 --> 47:45.640 after that we kind of like realize 47:45.640 --> 47:47.560 that and that had pretty significant 47:47.560 --> 47:49.860 implications and like you know our business plan 47:49.860 --> 47:51.340 we ended up with like a hardware 47:51.340 --> 47:53.740 prototype form factor where it says when 47:53.740 --> 47:55.740 we started on just the pure computational data 47:55.740 --> 47:57.420 data markets view that was like very much 47:57.420 --> 47:59.740 Bitcoin centric looking at the information 47:59.740 --> 48:01.380 and the behaviors and the attention 48:01.380 --> 48:03.360 and the market and then 48:03.360 --> 48:05.680 trying to work out like how you build 48:05.680 --> 48:07.660 something that takes advantage 48:07.660 --> 48:09.740 of that so that you know essentially like 48:09.740 --> 48:11.720 run a Bitcoin miner that that also captures 48:11.720 --> 48:13.300 some of that some of that value right 48:14.120 --> 48:15.080 and yeah 48:15.080 --> 48:17.780 and yeah so I think you're going to 48:17.780 --> 48:18.400 ask something before 48:19.180 --> 48:21.180 well yeah in terms of a security 48:21.700 --> 48:23.540 securing the information on these 48:23.540 --> 48:25.660 networks I know for a while there 48:25.660 --> 48:27.460 you guys were working with 48:27.460 --> 48:29.900 using proof of work as a signaling 48:29.900 --> 48:31.940 mechanism is that something you guys 48:31.940 --> 48:33.040 are still working on 48:33.620 --> 48:35.500 that's what we're working on but way to think about 48:35.500 --> 48:36.380 it is like any so 48:37.300 --> 48:39.380 like all computing information 48:39.380 --> 48:41.360 and communication is all signaling okay 48:41.360 --> 48:43.040 yes all the universe 48:43.040 --> 48:45.440 around us is all like encoding and signals 48:46.360 --> 48:46.840 so 48:47.360 --> 48:49.060 so although we tested that sort of like 48:49.060 --> 48:51.300 from the advertising we're like yeah okay 48:51.300 --> 48:53.360 our business model is going to be advertising got it 48:53.360 --> 48:55.320 great like I tested 48:55.320 --> 48:57.580 that like briefly quickly see like 48:57.580 --> 48:58.900 hey that thing that we like 48:58.900 --> 49:01.680 sort of like just did at Andrew DeSantis house in 2018 49:01.680 --> 49:03.380 love once and it was kind of crazy and then 49:03.380 --> 49:04.740 like I'd forgot about it for a year 49:05.540 --> 49:07.320 maybe before we like you raise lots 49:07.320 --> 49:09.380 of money and high lots of people we should sort of like just double 49:09.380 --> 49:11.200 check that that is actually 49:11.200 --> 49:13.280 like a technical like reproducible like 49:13.280 --> 49:15.340 rational thing that if we do that again can do 49:15.340 --> 49:17.420 somebody but react to it the same 49:17.420 --> 49:19.260 way that they did then but like maybe at a 49:19.260 --> 49:21.240 micro scale and it seemed to go 49:21.240 --> 49:23.060 pretty good we had a bunch of people like 49:23.060 --> 49:25.380 go to 28.com copy paste 49:25.380 --> 49:27.240 hashes onto twitch which 49:27.240 --> 49:29.340 existed at this point which like a year 49:29.340 --> 49:31.300 before you know we were doing all this stuff 49:31.300 --> 49:33.440 on Twitter but but then a year afterwards 49:33.440 --> 49:34.820 like the guys at 49:35.380 --> 49:36.700 Urban Arson and so forth 49:36.700 --> 49:38.780 they'd like built and and Urban Arson 49:38.780 --> 49:40.040 he was actually at in Mississippi 49:40.040 --> 49:42.560 for a bit too when we found that hash 49:43.140 --> 49:44.680 you know he went off from that 49:44.680 --> 49:46.820 like six months later that they'd found 49:46.820 --> 49:48.760 Twitch so when I was sort of like you know 49:48.760 --> 49:50.580 coming back to the community and saying like hey 49:50.580 --> 49:52.180 you know we're going to go and explore these ideas 49:52.180 --> 49:54.360 I sort of like hashed a bunch of stuff on my laptop 49:54.360 --> 49:56.420 posted on 2180.com and sort of like 49:56.420 --> 49:58.740 messaged everybody's like hey can you copy paste one of those 49:58.740 --> 50:00.920 things and pull on Bitcoin and we just did it 50:00.920 --> 50:02.640 we did it on Twitch right but so today 50:02.640 --> 50:04.480 you can go back on 50:04.480 --> 50:06.160 the BSV chain 50:06.760 --> 50:08.420 you know you could also anchor things 50:08.420 --> 50:10.400 with open time Samsung to BTC as well 50:11.040 --> 50:12.700 I think like majority of all that 50:12.700 --> 50:14.560 like BSV 50:14.560 --> 50:15.840 like you know I had the infrastructure 50:16.880 --> 50:18.720 but you can go back and so people 50:18.720 --> 50:20.880 can use that as proof of like yeah I was 50:20.880 --> 50:22.760 a 2180 affiliate like years before 50:22.760 --> 50:24.780 there was any anything that looked like a 50:24.780 --> 50:26.780 tick you know on the social network 50:26.780 --> 50:28.720 right that's part of the reason 50:28.720 --> 50:30.140 why we could see what was going 50:30.140 --> 50:32.560 on there when that happened too 50:35.690 --> 50:37.680 so I see that there is 50:37.680 --> 50:39.800 a lot of excitement 50:39.800 --> 50:42.200 building around a 2180 50:42.200 --> 50:43.820 and 50:43.820 --> 50:45.920 your emphasis 50:45.920 --> 50:46.760 of 50:47.670 --> 50:49.680 what we've always 50:49.680 --> 50:52.120 dubbed the Bitcoin index right 50:52.120 --> 50:54.420 and creating an understanding 50:54.420 --> 50:56.340 Bitcoin and 50:56.340 --> 50:57.780 arguably all of crypto 50:57.780 --> 50:59.620 within the lens of 50:59.620 --> 51:01.160 of 51:01.700 --> 51:02.780 being able to 51:03.520 --> 51:03.980 serve 51:05.700 --> 51:08.120 the computational data market 51:08.120 --> 51:09.200 through 51:09.780 --> 51:11.620 what each of these blockchains 51:11.620 --> 51:13.880 offer I want to bring 51:13.880 --> 51:15.160 to mind what 51:15.760 --> 51:18.020 Dean Little has been working on 51:18.020 --> 51:19.160 with Project Zeus 51:19.640 --> 51:21.700 where he has essentially 51:21.700 --> 51:23.460 created an SPV node 51:23.460 --> 51:25.960 of the Bitcoin protocol 51:25.960 --> 51:27.640 on Solana 51:28.560 --> 51:30.220 what are your thoughts on that 51:30.220 --> 51:31.960 because a lot of people are not talking 51:31.960 --> 51:33.680 about that and I think that there's 51:33.680 --> 51:36.120 there's something there that is very special 51:36.120 --> 51:37.880 that people are missing 51:37.880 --> 51:39.960 and I think it has to do 51:39.960 --> 51:40.960 with the fact that 51:43.660 --> 51:45.440 Solana is now giving 51:45.940 --> 51:46.260 Bitcoin 51:48.020 --> 51:49.840 abilities, BTC abilities 51:49.840 --> 51:51.700 that although costly 51:52.340 --> 51:54.220 would not have otherwise 51:55.220 --> 51:56.400 do you have any thoughts 51:56.400 --> 51:57.600 on that project and 51:58.200 --> 52:00.480 do you guys see yourselves working with that 52:00.480 --> 52:02.460 in any ways with Solana 52:03.280 --> 52:04.340 I mean 52:04.340 --> 52:06.340 it's essentially a Bitcoin project right because he's just 52:06.340 --> 52:08.360 making Bitcoin run on another 52:08.360 --> 52:08.820 platform 52:09.920 --> 52:11.200 what's interesting about Solana 52:11.200 --> 52:12.820 and Solana 52:12.820 --> 52:16.200 it's an architecture that comes from 52:16.200 --> 52:17.900 the Spanner database at Google 52:18.660 --> 52:20.500 with an algorithm called TrueTime 52:20.500 --> 52:22.600 so they're using 52:22.600 --> 52:24.480 Shart256 as a 52:24.480 --> 52:25.680 time stamping mechanism 52:25.680 --> 52:28.520 not just for big dumb slow time stamping 52:28.520 --> 52:30.660 of you have a document and you want to prove 52:30.660 --> 52:32.680 that that exists but real time 52:32.680 --> 52:33.300 information 52:34.460 --> 52:36.660 so Dean going and doing that 52:36.660 --> 52:37.340 is really interesting 52:38.380 --> 52:40.640 because you can now start to 52:40.640 --> 52:41.700 have Bitcoin 52:42.600 --> 52:44.380 networks and Bitcoin payment channels 52:44.380 --> 52:46.060 and Bitcoin signatures 52:46.060 --> 52:47.940 which they share the same 52:50.680 --> 52:51.400 hashing algorithm 52:51.400 --> 52:52.640 but they also share the same 52:52.640 --> 52:53.580 key algorithm 52:53.580 --> 52:55.700 so almost like Solana 52:55.700 --> 52:57.240 is one of the closest 52:59.200 --> 53:00.420 technologies out there 53:00.420 --> 53:02.180 that is 53:02.180 --> 53:03.920 very much compatible 53:03.920 --> 53:05.280 with Bitcoin and that's why I think 53:05.280 --> 53:08.140 the simplicity of it is part of the reason why 53:08.140 --> 53:09.580 they're like hey let's make 53:09.580 --> 53:12.100 one that goes really fast and it's really big right 53:12.100 --> 53:13.800 interestingly Solana is like 53:13.800 --> 53:15.240 original pitch 53:15.240 --> 53:17.340 was to make that run on the GPU 53:17.340 --> 53:18.860 and these were like 53:18.860 --> 53:20.640 CUDA programmers from Facebook 53:20.640 --> 53:22.560 and Google and things like that 53:23.560 --> 53:24.940 I'm still pretty sure 53:24.940 --> 53:27.220 that like the only Solana 53:27.220 --> 53:29.300 GPU code that sort of like plausibly 53:29.300 --> 53:31.220 is out there 53:31.220 --> 53:33.360 somewhere is like for keys 53:33.360 --> 53:34.540 or something so 53:34.980 --> 53:37.120 they basically kind of like 53:37.120 --> 53:38.200 never got 53:39.020 --> 53:41.560 that to happen but there was a lot of 53:41.560 --> 53:42.960 like that design 53:42.960 --> 53:43.460 that 53:44.860 --> 53:47.100 like in the first couple of years 53:47.100 --> 53:49.220 of this project when we were doing a lot more 53:49.220 --> 53:50.780 like Bitcoin stuff 53:50.780 --> 53:52.760 and it really kind of became a lot more 53:52.760 --> 53:55.020 like AI focused so like ways 53:55.020 --> 53:56.860 of encoding information as opposed 53:56.860 --> 53:58.520 to ways of like 53:58.520 --> 54:01.060 in private and like 54:01.060 --> 54:02.940 under your own control versus 54:02.940 --> 54:05.180 these sort of like more public data markets 54:06.660 --> 54:08.780 we found really quickly that 54:08.780 --> 54:10.700 we don't have the infrastructure 54:10.700 --> 54:12.680 and the tooling and the scale to like 54:12.680 --> 54:14.820 to make that safe 54:14.820 --> 54:16.860 and that's sort of one of the things 54:16.860 --> 54:19.200 that you would see from the big AI labs as well 54:20.220 --> 54:22.760 they can only kind of like make that safe because 54:22.760 --> 54:24.500 well it also 54:24.500 --> 54:26.860 it doesn't have any memory like you can't go viral 54:26.860 --> 54:27.920 in a language model 54:28.680 --> 54:30.740 but if they made 54:30.740 --> 54:32.480 like a social network where everybody 54:32.480 --> 54:34.160 was generating things together then 54:35.160 --> 54:37.140 that would get way too hard 54:37.140 --> 54:38.980 to handle like way too quickly 54:38.980 --> 54:41.440 and only Elon, Elon is the only guy 54:41.440 --> 54:42.740 who really has that 54:42.740 --> 54:45.260 he's the only guy who's like 54:46.920 --> 54:48.500 not actively like 54:48.500 --> 54:50.860 the number two is Zuck 54:51.800 --> 54:53.260 but Zuck is sort of 54:53.260 --> 54:54.960 on the Jack Dorsey model of like 54:54.960 --> 54:56.740 still censoring lots of the information 54:57.420 --> 54:59.200 and they've kind of like intentionally made 54:59.200 --> 55:00.120 their models crappy 55:00.120 --> 55:02.640 and they just have like sort of like they just run 55:02.640 --> 55:03.700 the open source one 55:05.180 --> 55:06.900 whereas Elon is running 55:06.900 --> 55:08.060 a state-of-the-art model 55:09.500 --> 55:11.320 on Twitter and then it's basically 55:11.320 --> 55:12.620 you know a massive free-for-all 55:13.140 --> 55:14.720 he's not out there you know like 55:15.760 --> 55:17.200 really controlling the platform 55:17.200 --> 55:19.000 like like like Dorsey Twitter 55:19.000 --> 55:19.560 used to 55:21.000 --> 55:22.940 so I want to switch gears a little bit 55:22.940 --> 55:24.020 and kind of go back 55:24.720 --> 55:26.900 in terms of infrastructure and I want to talk about 55:26.900 --> 55:29.340 something that a lot of people in crypto don't know about 55:29.340 --> 55:30.540 which is Erbit 55:31.500 --> 55:33.120 could you explain real quick 55:33.120 --> 55:34.960 what Erbit is, what that project 55:34.960 --> 55:36.500 has been proposing 55:36.500 --> 55:38.240 and where is Erbit? 55:38.400 --> 55:40.180 Is Erbit something that has 55:40.180 --> 55:42.420 still has any legs as an ecosystem? 55:42.920 --> 55:43.720 What's going on with Erbit? 55:44.200 --> 55:46.500 Well like you know how I said there was this sort of like 55:46.500 --> 55:48.120 2016 to 2020 55:48.120 --> 55:50.800 you know halving error thing around social networks 55:50.800 --> 55:53.340 they're sort of just like a legacy project 55:53.340 --> 55:54.960 from that era when like 55:54.960 --> 55:57.140 the people are like well it can be 55:57.140 --> 55:58.440 like iCloud and 55:58.780 --> 56:00.680 Twitter. We could put iCloud 56:00.680 --> 56:02.240 and Twitter together if we like 56:02.240 --> 56:04.300 use that blockchain stuff somehow 56:04.300 --> 56:06.280 and actually they were around for a long time 56:06.280 --> 56:07.640 and they had like a really 56:08.780 --> 56:09.860 great like technical 56:09.860 --> 56:11.980 capacity they're like you know a software 56:12.520 --> 56:14.100 operating systems computing company 56:15.500 --> 56:15.980 but 56:16.640 --> 56:18.440 they're sort of them going and sort of like 56:18.440 --> 56:19.620 becoming an Ethereum NFT 56:20.580 --> 56:22.340 you know like made their whole project 56:22.340 --> 56:24.540 very confusing and it was unfortunate 56:24.540 --> 56:26.100 because they went from 56:26.100 --> 56:28.260 sort of this like really kind of 56:28.260 --> 56:30.120 cultish esoteric like 56:30.120 --> 56:32.280 make the difficulty level up this high 56:32.280 --> 56:34.400 so that we can like work on something really ambitious 56:35.720 --> 56:36.240 and 56:36.240 --> 56:38.040 it eventually just got diluted 56:38.760 --> 56:39.480 you know 56:40.020 --> 56:42.160 that esoteric thing that 56:42.160 --> 56:44.380 was sort of like protecting the value 56:44.380 --> 56:46.220 it just like diluted the value 56:46.220 --> 56:48.120 until it's sort of 56:48.720 --> 56:50.020 you know back 56:50.020 --> 56:52.140 to and even Curtis like 56:54.380 --> 56:56.080 is you know he's like 56:56.080 --> 56:58.020 he's kind of like the only guy working on it now 56:58.020 --> 57:00.020 right and it's similar like 57:00.020 --> 57:01.940 he was caught up in like the similar kind of wave 57:01.940 --> 57:04.060 that well we may have been like trying to do 57:04.060 --> 57:05.880 the computational data markets thing like 57:05.880 --> 57:08.040 and didn't know that that but then AI happened 57:08.040 --> 57:09.640 and we're like oh shit like 57:09.640 --> 57:11.160 we probably should have known about that 57:12.060 --> 57:14.020 then you know like it's just me 57:14.020 --> 57:15.220 sort of like 57:16.440 --> 57:17.400 piecing the 57:17.960 --> 57:20.120 work together from the last having up 57:20.120 --> 57:22.060 back again until we really kind of like 57:22.060 --> 57:23.920 ready to like make any new 57:23.920 --> 57:25.520 speculation on what might happen 57:25.520 --> 57:27.840 but there's still lots of ideas and 57:27.840 --> 57:28.980 and things 57:29.460 --> 57:31.460 that are not in the market that like 57:31.460 --> 57:33.400 you know I still have in our archives 57:33.400 --> 57:35.920 that if that can be put in a form 57:35.920 --> 57:37.680 that like you know that you can have 57:37.680 --> 57:38.760 on your on your desk 57:39.640 --> 57:41.600 that you can kind of like do the same thing 57:41.600 --> 57:42.760 in the mainstream 57:43.340 --> 57:44.740 like I was saying with chat GPT 57:44.740 --> 57:47.580 that if like that technology that you know 57:47.580 --> 57:49.780 Bitcoin people had in like 2020 to 57:49.780 --> 57:51.700 2024 if a little bit of that 57:51.700 --> 57:53.740 can be made accessible you know by 57:53.740 --> 57:55.800 the end of this cycle to 57:55.800 --> 57:57.500 the to the mainstream market then 57:57.500 --> 57:59.820 like then then things are pretty 57:59.820 --> 58:01.660 good so a bit is very similar 58:01.660 --> 58:03.620 you know there was a lot of like I went 58:03.620 --> 58:05.820 to them in like late 2019 so like before 58:05.820 --> 58:07.840 the in San Francisco so like before 58:07.840 --> 58:09.280 the halving and I was like let's host 58:09.280 --> 58:11.100 her bits and payment channels like we can do 58:11.100 --> 58:13.620 businesses and everything and the guy 58:13.620 --> 58:13.920 who 58:15.460 --> 58:17.940 of mine who are you know like 58:19.260 --> 58:19.740 was 58:19.740 --> 58:21.680 an engineer there at Sloan in San 58:21.680 --> 58:23.640 Francisco at the time working on her bit 58:23.640 --> 58:25.140 you know he really like 58:25.580 --> 58:27.520 you know put me in front of the two guys 58:27.520 --> 58:29.520 who are running it and I said like hey all this 58:29.520 --> 58:31.300 like social network like fake operating 58:31.300 --> 58:33.480 system kind of stuff is like kind of lame 58:33.480 --> 58:35.580 but like hey that technology you have is 58:35.580 --> 58:37.460 like we could probably make a lot of money out 58:37.460 --> 58:38.780 of it if we actually like run big 58:38.780 --> 58:41.640 businesses and then sort of 58:41.640 --> 58:43.120 like you know that project was largely 58:43.120 --> 58:45.460 like destabilized by COVID stuff in the same 58:45.460 --> 58:47.180 way as everybody else but 58:48.400 --> 58:49.780 but in 2020 58:50.360 --> 58:52.220 Logan Alan you know he went off 58:52.220 --> 58:53.640 and started the first 58:53.640 --> 58:56.000 urban company and now there 58:56.000 --> 58:57.780 are actually like you know a dozen 58:57.780 --> 59:00.040 or more urban companies 59:00.040 --> 59:01.380 it's still a bear market so 59:01.380 --> 59:03.740 they've been they've been a bubble 59:03.740 --> 59:05.880 of like boom of urban companies and then like 59:05.880 --> 59:07.060 a bunch of them go out of business 59:08.100 --> 59:09.880 right including Sloan doesn't 59:09.880 --> 59:12.120 really do it anymore they like made a whole foundation 59:12.120 --> 59:13.860 in things and it's like Curtis Yavin's 59:13.860 --> 59:14.580 job now again 59:16.400 --> 59:16.880 but 59:19.040 --> 59:20.280 he now has 59:21.920 --> 59:23.160 he's on the sort of like 59:23.160 --> 59:24.960 his second business which is 59:24.960 --> 59:26.640 much more of like an overlap 59:26.640 --> 59:28.680 between the data markets 59:28.680 --> 59:30.300 like computational data markets idea 59:30.730 --> 59:32.100 and what it was doing 59:32.100 --> 59:35.020 and capabilities that like 59:35.020 --> 59:36.760 are still really interesting about their 59:36.760 --> 59:38.560 underlying technology and so that's called 59:38.560 --> 59:40.120 the company is called Zorp 59:40.920 --> 59:43.240 Zorp I wanted to ask you about Zorp next 59:43.240 --> 59:45.060 yes but the project 59:45.060 --> 59:47.200 is knock chain so he's trying 59:47.200 --> 59:48.640 to make a Solana killer 59:48.640 --> 59:51.100 that sort of like uses a bit of proof 59:51.100 --> 59:52.640 of work uses a bit of this kind of like 59:52.640 --> 59:55.060 you know like 59:56.440 --> 59:57.000 ZKP 59:57.000 --> 59:58.940 compute contracts 59:58.940 --> 01:00:00.980 logic stuff and find 01:00:00.980 --> 01:00:03.620 a way to plug them together 01:00:03.620 --> 01:00:05.500 and there's a really like good complement 01:00:05.500 --> 01:00:07.040 between his like zero knowledge 01:00:07.040 --> 01:00:09.020 proof technology and 01:00:09.020 --> 01:00:11.220 my hyperdimensional proof of work 01:00:12.180 --> 01:00:12.740 system 01:00:12.740 --> 01:00:13.460 yeah 01:00:14.240 --> 01:00:16.080 okay so for a lot of people 01:00:16.720 --> 01:00:18.660 let me just break this down more in layman's terms 01:00:18.660 --> 01:00:19.980 for so there's this 01:00:20.460 --> 01:00:21.280 overall idea 01:00:22.280 --> 01:00:23.440 that has 01:00:24.580 --> 01:00:25.940 become a reality 01:00:25.940 --> 01:00:28.100 with the infrastructure that we have 01:00:28.500 --> 01:00:30.700 and this idea is that we don't no longer 01:00:30.700 --> 01:00:32.260 really need these giant 01:00:32.260 --> 01:00:34.380 server farms to be the intermediaries 01:00:34.380 --> 01:00:34.800 between 01:00:35.780 --> 01:00:38.440 between each other when it comes to 01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:40.020 sharing our information 01:00:40.020 --> 01:00:41.400 that the 01:00:42.820 --> 01:00:44.200 computers that are readily 01:00:44.200 --> 01:00:45.880 available to us the public 01:00:47.300 --> 01:00:48.060 have 01:00:48.060 --> 01:00:50.060 within them the constitutive 01:00:50.060 --> 01:00:51.940 makeup that allows 01:00:51.940 --> 01:00:54.120 us to deal with each other person 01:00:54.120 --> 01:00:55.260 to person P2P 01:00:56.180 --> 01:00:56.940 so 01:00:57.920 --> 01:00:59.920 Erbit has been aiming 01:00:59.920 --> 01:01:01.780 for that world view 01:01:01.780 --> 01:01:03.780 and it's aiming for that infrastructure 01:01:03.780 --> 01:01:06.100 so it's kind of like having a decentralized 01:01:06.100 --> 01:01:07.560 P2P nature to 01:01:07.560 --> 01:01:09.240 to computing infrastructure 01:01:10.180 --> 01:01:11.560 and correct me 01:01:11.560 --> 01:01:13.640 from wrong but pretty much 2028 01:01:13.640 --> 01:01:15.320 is also aiming at that correct 01:01:17.780 --> 01:01:19.020 yeah they're related 01:01:19.480 --> 01:01:20.940 but the thing I would make 01:01:20.940 --> 01:01:23.400 a point of is that Ethereum became 01:01:23.400 --> 01:01:24.860 an NFT on Ethereum 01:01:25.400 --> 01:01:26.960 Erbit became an NFT on Ethereum 01:01:27.280 --> 01:01:29.480 so it was a startup I think from 01:01:29.480 --> 01:01:31.640 2010 or something they even like 01:01:31.640 --> 01:01:32.880 applied to Way Combinator 01:01:32.880 --> 01:01:35.080 it was just a computing 01:01:35.080 --> 01:01:37.120 startup in San Francisco 01:01:39.280 --> 01:01:41.060 right like Erbit was 01:01:41.060 --> 01:01:43.080 like the name of their operating system that they 01:01:43.080 --> 01:01:45.100 were building the company was 01:01:45.100 --> 01:01:47.060 called Tlaun and eventually 01:01:47.060 --> 01:01:49.000 they sort of like it was around 01:01:49.000 --> 01:01:50.540 2016 all of the 01:01:51.060 --> 01:01:52.980 you know like Andreessen it was like 01:01:52.980 --> 01:01:54.560 around the time of this 21 stuff 01:01:55.480 --> 01:01:56.980 everybody who was doing 01:01:56.980 --> 01:01:59.380 anything adjacent to decentralized 01:01:59.380 --> 01:02:01.100 computing their VCs 01:02:01.100 --> 01:02:03.100 or you know tap them on the 01:02:03.100 --> 01:02:04.960 shoulder and said you need to go make a coin 01:02:04.960 --> 01:02:06.740 if you want to keep getting funded 01:02:06.740 --> 01:02:09.160 and so that happened to them and it largely 01:02:09.160 --> 01:02:10.480 like diluted 01:02:11.060 --> 01:02:12.020 it took that 01:02:12.900 --> 01:02:14.040 like really 01:02:14.040 --> 01:02:17.020 you really needed to be like a 01:02:17.020 --> 01:02:19.000 Curtis Yavin Nazi sort of 01:02:19.000 --> 01:02:21.060 mentality to 01:02:21.060 --> 01:02:22.920 make sure that nobody 01:02:22.920 --> 01:02:24.980 comes along and just like inserts a little bit of 01:02:24.980 --> 01:02:26.980 JavaScript all right 01:02:26.980 --> 01:02:29.160 so largely they're 01:02:29.160 --> 01:02:30.780 kind of like the remnant 01:02:30.780 --> 01:02:32.660 there's the sort of remnant of like well 01:02:32.660 --> 01:02:34.860 they had a token but then all of 01:02:34.860 --> 01:02:36.600 the all of the speculative value 01:02:36.600 --> 01:02:38.720 has been squeezed out of it and 01:02:38.720 --> 01:02:40.900 there's nothing left so now that there's 01:02:40.900 --> 01:02:42.780 nothing left there rather than 01:02:42.780 --> 01:02:44.780 like having to rationalize 01:02:45.980 --> 01:02:46.700 Erbit with 01:02:46.700 --> 01:02:48.720 JavaScript running on Kubernetes on 01:02:48.720 --> 01:02:50.940 Google Cloud and wasn't this supposed to be a thing 01:02:50.940 --> 01:02:52.800 that ran on an Intel Nook thing under my 01:02:52.800 --> 01:02:54.640 couch you can just be like oh 01:02:54.640 --> 01:02:56.740 just put it on it like their 01:02:56.740 --> 01:02:58.840 business incentive is that they don't have 01:02:58.840 --> 01:03:01.000 any money to like build a big complicated hosting 01:03:01.000 --> 01:03:02.900 thing or like people do those businesses anymore 01:03:02.900 --> 01:03:05.320 so you remove this like 01:03:05.320 --> 01:03:06.980 like derivatives capital 01:03:06.980 --> 01:03:08.880 like stuff of like the 01:03:08.880 --> 01:03:10.800 GPUs behind Wall Street are telling you to 01:03:10.800 --> 01:03:12.820 give them you know they're telling you it's like every 01:03:12.820 --> 01:03:14.860 social network is just buying your data 01:03:14.860 --> 01:03:16.160 from you for zero dollars 01:03:17.060 --> 01:03:18.800 right and then renting it back 01:03:18.800 --> 01:03:20.880 to you right so 01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:22.780 the same thing like happens with all of these 01:03:22.780 --> 01:03:24.860 all these projects the moment that you tokenize 01:03:24.860 --> 01:03:26.840 something what you what 01:03:26.840 --> 01:03:28.760 you thought your project was 01:03:28.760 --> 01:03:30.340 which might have been like to make 01:03:30.340 --> 01:03:32.800 a compute know that it's your personal server and it 01:03:32.800 --> 01:03:34.900 runs all your things that like run on our cloud 01:03:34.900 --> 01:03:36.700 like this but remove the financial 01:03:36.700 --> 01:03:38.720 capital from it and you own it well 01:03:38.720 --> 01:03:40.540 actually now that we converted 01:03:40.540 --> 01:03:42.580 into token representation 01:03:43.340 --> 01:03:44.740 your that physical 01:03:44.740 --> 01:03:46.640 thing has just been bought by the market 01:03:46.640 --> 01:03:48.900 and that's what's happened to Bitcoin so like 01:03:48.900 --> 01:03:50.820 Bitcoin is now like 01:03:50.820 --> 01:03:52.180 and a dollar 01:03:52.760 --> 01:03:54.440 asset it's a dollar derivative 01:03:55.420 --> 01:03:57.060 right like like it's a 01:03:57.060 --> 01:03:58.880 thing that you you know you call 01:03:58.880 --> 01:04:00.120 up your your 01:04:01.700 --> 01:04:02.620 401k guy 01:04:02.620 --> 01:04:04.760 and be like can you buy me some 01:04:04.760 --> 01:04:06.820 micro strategy so that I can 01:04:06.820 --> 01:04:08.820 get at the Bitcoin right and then 01:04:08.820 --> 01:04:10.360 by that time they've like you know 01:04:11.240 --> 01:04:12.400 they've they've like 01:04:12.400 --> 01:04:14.540 added a bunch of zeros to it 01:04:14.540 --> 01:04:16.160 on the wrong end 01:04:16.880 --> 01:04:18.640 so with with projects like 01:04:18.640 --> 01:04:20.960 Urban you can sort of track this life cycle 01:04:20.960 --> 01:04:22.460 which is like okay well 01:04:22.460 --> 01:04:24.400 there was a speculative 01:04:24.400 --> 01:04:25.680 capital injection 01:04:26.300 --> 01:04:28.400 and it like inflates the 01:04:28.400 --> 01:04:30.140 shit out of it through derivatives 01:04:30.140 --> 01:04:32.280 and speculation and you're thinking about and it 01:04:32.280 --> 01:04:34.440 increases the complexity right and we had a lot 01:04:34.440 --> 01:04:36.160 of that even though I was like terrified 01:04:36.160 --> 01:04:37.900 of venture capital we did raise from investors 01:04:38.340 --> 01:04:40.160 and that like you know you 01:04:40.160 --> 01:04:42.520 you people hype it up 01:04:42.520 --> 01:04:44.440 to the nth degree like 10 to 100 01:04:44.440 --> 01:04:46.080 times more than is really suitable 01:04:46.080 --> 01:04:48.480 for what you've got and then you don't 01:04:48.480 --> 01:04:50.120 only have to deal with like 01:04:50.560 --> 01:04:52.320 explaining what you've got what you're doing 01:04:52.320 --> 01:04:54.360 but then you also have to deal with like 01:04:54.360 --> 01:04:56.100 people asking you know 21 01:04:56.100 --> 01:04:58.380 other questions around all of the 01:04:58.380 --> 01:05:00.140 second-order effect implications of it 01:05:00.140 --> 01:05:02.100 and you know we had that from like day one 01:05:02.100 --> 01:05:04.260 so so so I was or 01:05:04.260 --> 01:05:05.980 it was already something we're like 01:05:05.980 --> 01:05:08.340 speak we're like you would you'd kind of 01:05:08.340 --> 01:05:10.120 like get burnt out trying to 01:05:10.680 --> 01:05:12.320 trying to speculate over and see the 01:05:12.320 --> 01:05:14.280 big picture because it would be it would 01:05:14.280 --> 01:05:16.160 you know you would just be it's like 01:05:16.160 --> 01:05:17.900 if you had it had a torch and you're like 01:05:17.900 --> 01:05:19.760 in an abandoned warehouse and then you 01:05:19.760 --> 01:05:21.460 like point it in the corner and there's like 500 01:05:21.460 --> 01:05:23.520 spiders and then like you just get 01:05:23.520 --> 01:05:25.440 overwhelmed instantly by the amount of 01:05:25.440 --> 01:05:27.180 complexity and then like run off 01:05:27.180 --> 01:05:29.520 away from things I don't know 01:05:29.520 --> 01:05:31.340 if there's a good analogy but like it's such 01:05:31.340 --> 01:05:32.860 an instant complexity 01:05:33.480 --> 01:05:35.580 that like you immediately can't 01:05:35.580 --> 01:05:37.200 you're overwhelmed with it and 01:05:37.200 --> 01:05:39.460 you can't and you can't deal with it 01:05:39.460 --> 01:05:41.740 so that speculative capital injection 01:05:42.640 --> 01:05:43.760 the people who are 01:05:43.760 --> 01:05:44.820 the best at this 01:05:45.540 --> 01:05:47.160 not in video actually 01:05:47.160 --> 01:05:49.060 because in video has had 01:05:49.060 --> 01:05:50.920 and continues to have a whole bunch 01:05:50.920 --> 01:05:52.800 of execution risk now from 01:05:52.800 --> 01:05:55.240 the fact that they're priced according to their potential 01:05:55.240 --> 01:05:57.080 right and that 01:05:57.080 --> 01:05:58.860 then can then being able 01:05:58.860 --> 01:06:01.080 to maintain a stable 01:06:01.080 --> 01:06:02.860 like stock price asset 01:06:02.860 --> 01:06:04.800 price based on that speculative 01:06:04.800 --> 01:06:07.000 value is really difficult because 01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:09.060 they could just have one bad run 01:06:09.060 --> 01:06:11.080 at TSMC which they have had 01:06:11.080 --> 01:06:13.020 right and it can mess 01:06:13.020 --> 01:06:14.980 with the whole project so micro 01:06:14.980 --> 01:06:16.220 strategy and comparison 01:06:16.720 --> 01:06:18.860 like they're like cool we don't have any execution 01:06:18.860 --> 01:06:20.360 risk because we don't do anything 01:06:22.780 --> 01:06:24.920 I'm just going to buy bitcoins and hold on to them 01:06:24.920 --> 01:06:26.960 buy my stock because I'll hold on to bitcoins and 01:06:26.960 --> 01:06:28.620 it's like you know your test over like 01:06:28.620 --> 01:06:31.060 well what's the likelihood that he's going to run away 01:06:31.060 --> 01:06:33.020 with the multi-sig and like well at least 01:06:33.020 --> 01:06:35.100 because it's one dude as opposed to all of this 01:06:35.100 --> 01:06:36.720 shit that like Sam Bankman freed it 01:06:36.720 --> 01:06:38.060 that like well 01:06:39.000 --> 01:06:40.620 proportionally you know we trust him more than 01:06:40.620 --> 01:06:42.840 Sam Bankman freed and we trust him more than Jensen Huang 01:06:43.480 --> 01:06:44.680 right and there's all these 01:06:44.680 --> 01:06:46.500 new AI, Solana 01:06:46.500 --> 01:06:48.640 meme coin things like people 01:06:48.640 --> 01:06:50.680 experimentally trying to do that like there's 01:06:50.680 --> 01:06:52.880 a project called AI 16Z 01:06:52.880 --> 01:06:54.800 that basically they were trying to be 01:06:54.800 --> 01:06:56.120 like the next one passed 01:06:56.760 --> 01:06:58.040 they're trying to do the 01:07:00.060 --> 01:07:01.020 massive reflex 01:07:01.020 --> 01:07:02.640 of speculative capital growth 01:07:02.640 --> 01:07:04.340 of AI agents 01:07:04.340 --> 01:07:06.440 and like tokenizing AI agents 01:07:06.440 --> 01:07:07.900 and getting them all to invest in each other 01:07:07.900 --> 01:07:10.080 and do that and they like 01:07:10.080 --> 01:07:11.140 came out of nowhere and that 01:07:11.140 --> 01:07:14.080 they're still around in like an interesting project 01:07:14.080 --> 01:07:15.780 but it's kind of like the urban thing 01:07:15.780 --> 01:07:17.080 but they like speed ran it 01:07:17.900 --> 01:07:19.940 like they did in like 01:07:19.940 --> 01:07:21.560 six weeks or something 01:07:21.560 --> 01:07:23.400 what takes like a DFINITY 01:07:23.720 --> 01:07:25.760 or Solana or a urban 01:07:25.760 --> 01:07:27.980 or anything like like five or six years 01:07:27.980 --> 01:07:29.580 to be able to do 01:07:30.160 --> 01:07:32.240 and part of the reason that they could do that 01:07:32.240 --> 01:07:34.300 was that they were just leveraging the state of the art 01:07:34.300 --> 01:07:36.400 of pump fun 01:07:36.400 --> 01:07:37.660 and dow's fun like 01:07:38.270 --> 01:07:40.580 you know like speculative meme market 01:07:40.580 --> 01:07:42.480 like big blocks on Solana right 01:07:42.480 --> 01:07:43.600 you couldn't have done that without 01:07:44.160 --> 01:07:44.700 something 01:07:46.000 --> 01:07:47.900 like a big blocks and so but 01:07:48.210 --> 01:07:50.320 that game hasn't 01:07:50.320 --> 01:07:52.240 been sort of answered it's sort of like 01:07:52.240 --> 01:07:53.820 they're already playing how do we 01:07:53.820 --> 01:07:55.620 generate lots of dollars really quickly 01:07:56.720 --> 01:07:58.320 nothing has been done at the 01:07:58.320 --> 01:08:00.260 overall market level to like take 01:08:00.260 --> 01:08:01.860 the speculative capital industry 01:08:01.860 --> 01:08:04.040 which all of Bitcoin and all of the forks 01:08:04.040 --> 01:08:06.040 and every other like new startup project 01:08:06.660 --> 01:08:07.860 is all even like 01:08:07.860 --> 01:08:10.120 XAI stuff and language models and all this 01:08:10.120 --> 01:08:11.420 type of thing it's all 01:08:12.120 --> 01:08:13.960 speculative capital that's being printed 01:08:13.960 --> 01:08:15.800 that nobody has any clue 01:08:15.800 --> 01:08:17.960 how Masayoshi San is gonna like make 01:08:17.960 --> 01:08:19.780 back five hundred billion dollars 01:08:19.780 --> 01:08:20.660 from 01:08:21.660 --> 01:08:24.060 you know from like it's not really 01:08:24.060 --> 01:08:25.760 that it's like actually ten but it is 01:08:25.760 --> 01:08:27.780 it is a significant data center site 01:08:27.780 --> 01:08:28.820 that's being built out in Texas 01:08:30.360 --> 01:08:32.040 nobody has any he'll probably be dead 01:08:32.040 --> 01:08:33.560 by the time he needs to pay it back right 01:08:34.620 --> 01:08:35.940 but there's enough 01:08:35.940 --> 01:08:38.080 urgency in the actual sort of like 01:08:38.080 --> 01:08:39.480 systemic risk level of 01:08:39.920 --> 01:08:41.980 the top of the market where 01:08:41.980 --> 01:08:44.240 this capital needs to be going to these things 01:08:44.240 --> 01:08:46.180 right now because if it doesn't go into 01:08:46.180 --> 01:08:48.000 like hard assets that are relatively 01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:50.200 that have this like 01:08:50.200 --> 01:08:51.460 ability to resist 01:08:52.480 --> 01:08:54.100 inflation like it's 01:08:54.100 --> 01:08:55.980 it's hard to clone an NVIDIA 01:08:55.980 --> 01:08:58.180 GPU so therefore if you have a bunch 01:08:58.180 --> 01:09:00.120 of money in the economy and everything else 01:09:00.120 --> 01:09:02.120 is gonna get like wiped out by AI and Bitcoin 01:09:02.120 --> 01:09:04.620 and like the next and this halving too 01:09:05.220 --> 01:09:05.660 then 01:09:06.100 --> 01:09:08.200 it's really unclear like we should put your money 01:09:08.200 --> 01:09:10.140 like well if it's not going into NVIDIA 01:09:10.140 --> 01:09:12.100 GPUs and you don't have that capability then 01:09:12.100 --> 01:09:14.060 like we're already at the sort of like post 01:09:14.060 --> 01:09:16.080 AI stage of just buying gold 01:09:16.080 --> 01:09:18.180 but putting a bunch of money and gold 01:09:18.180 --> 01:09:20.200 doesn't really help anything either it just sort 01:09:20.200 --> 01:09:22.240 of and gold is still treated like 01:09:22.240 --> 01:09:24.120 a dollar asset right 01:09:24.120 --> 01:09:26.060 like the reason for buying gold is 01:09:26.060 --> 01:09:28.080 it's gonna make you a lot of dollars and then you're gonna sell it 01:09:28.080 --> 01:09:29.300 not because 01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:32.120 you are everybody is really like 01:09:32.120 --> 01:09:33.500 there's no like 01:09:33.840 --> 01:09:35.800 there's no people aren't 01:09:35.800 --> 01:09:37.820 going out there and like starting to 01:09:38.500 --> 01:09:39.460 trade in gold 01:09:40.040 --> 01:09:42.220 right like your supermarket isn't 01:09:42.220 --> 01:09:44.360 accepting gold in big markets 01:09:44.360 --> 01:09:46.080 where people are buying a lot of gold like Wall 01:09:46.080 --> 01:09:47.740 Street like in Wall Street they're not 01:09:47.740 --> 01:09:50.140 they're not trading a gold they're not using gold 01:09:50.140 --> 01:09:52.060 as money they're just using it as 01:09:52.060 --> 01:09:53.860 one of these like speculative assets right 01:09:54.640 --> 01:09:55.920 so it's really like 01:09:55.920 --> 01:09:57.980 people say like BTC is digital gold 01:09:57.980 --> 01:09:59.940 but it's actually the other 01:09:59.940 --> 01:10:01.740 way around where gold is 01:10:01.740 --> 01:10:03.140 now physical Bitcoin 01:10:03.800 --> 01:10:05.780 and so I'm really interested in 01:10:05.780 --> 01:10:07.280 in what is this overlap 01:10:07.920 --> 01:10:10.040 what does it mean to have a physical Bitcoin 01:10:10.760 --> 01:10:11.280 and 01:10:11.880 --> 01:10:14.040 can we make one that does that other 01:10:14.040 --> 01:10:16.000 that computational data markets thing that I 01:10:16.000 --> 01:10:17.900 talked about and that was where we landed on 01:10:17.900 --> 01:10:20.200 which is that we were able to massively 01:10:20.200 --> 01:10:21.920 reduce all of our we were able 01:10:21.920 --> 01:10:23.860 to make it such that you could 01:10:23.860 --> 01:10:25.120 not speculatively 01:10:26.320 --> 01:10:27.620 amplify you could not 01:10:27.620 --> 01:10:29.840 turn twenty one eight into a 01:10:29.840 --> 01:10:30.600 Kubernetes thing 01:10:31.420 --> 01:10:33.380 if you came along with a bunch of inch capital 01:10:33.380 --> 01:10:35.620 money there's no way to turn 01:10:35.620 --> 01:10:37.400 it to to we 01:10:37.400 --> 01:10:39.440 because we went off of the solar and video 01:10:39.440 --> 01:10:40.540 model right 01:10:41.880 --> 01:10:43.760 and and so the Mac 01:10:43.760 --> 01:10:44.080 mini 01:10:46.420 --> 01:10:47.880 yeah because it can do 01:10:47.880 --> 01:10:49.600 Bitcoin because I can have a phone call 01:10:49.600 --> 01:10:51.240 and we can generate information on it 01:10:52.160 --> 01:10:52.600 well 01:10:53.060 --> 01:10:54.980 you know it's a it's a physical 01:10:54.980 --> 01:10:56.980 Bitcoin look it's like shaped like that 01:10:56.980 --> 01:10:59.140 right so the new one 01:10:59.140 --> 01:11:00.920 the new one is his shrunk 01:11:00.920 --> 01:11:03.200 so it's had a halving so the new one is 01:11:03.200 --> 01:11:03.980 about this big 01:11:05.340 --> 01:11:07.240 and we had this whole meme of like 01:11:07.240 --> 01:11:09.000 you know the power to you have to turn 01:11:09.000 --> 01:11:11.080 upside down well on the M4 Mac mini 01:11:11.080 --> 01:11:13.020 like the power button is on the bottom 01:11:13.020 --> 01:11:15.380 so it's really funny you know I have 01:11:15.380 --> 01:11:17.120 the old model Apple that like 01:11:17.120 --> 01:11:19.200 you know go get my Mac mini and show it off 01:11:19.200 --> 01:11:22.000 to there's I don't know if you see 01:11:22.000 --> 01:11:23.640 but the like the whole back wall 01:11:23.640 --> 01:11:25.100 here is yeah I see it like 01:11:25.100 --> 01:11:27.420 for the for Mac mini is here 01:11:27.420 --> 01:11:29.780 okay I'm trying to so we're going to try 01:11:29.780 --> 01:11:31.060 to like we're going to try to fill it up 01:11:31.060 --> 01:11:32.720 fill it up to here right so I love it 01:11:33.380 --> 01:11:35.420 and then but that's around like 01:11:35.420 --> 01:11:37.260 you know this idea we had this notion 01:11:37.260 --> 01:11:39.160 of well what is this 01:11:39.160 --> 01:11:41.280 informational computational capacity 01:11:41.280 --> 01:11:42.940 of like when you have an AI processor 01:11:42.940 --> 01:11:44.460 and you know and you have 01:11:45.580 --> 01:11:47.100 proof of work essentially right and 01:11:47.100 --> 01:11:49.140 the Mac mini is like smallest little unit 01:11:49.140 --> 01:11:50.280 of like a little bit of AI 01:11:50.970 --> 01:11:52.260 and a little bit of Shah 01:11:53.540 --> 01:11:55.060 and it's the most computer 01:11:55.060 --> 01:11:56.740 per dollar you know it's an actual computer 01:11:56.740 --> 01:11:58.820 so it's really good commodity it's like 01:11:58.820 --> 01:12:00.420 massively mass produced 01:12:02.440 --> 01:12:02.940 everybody 01:12:02.940 --> 01:12:05.020 you know pretty much everybody has a 01:12:05.020 --> 01:12:06.580 Mac mini like in some cupboard somewhere 01:12:06.890 --> 01:12:08.400 and so they can actually like 01:12:08.870 --> 01:12:10.740 have the experience of like 01:12:10.740 --> 01:12:12.820 being in the network without actually 01:12:12.820 --> 01:12:14.680 likely needing to go out and 01:12:14.680 --> 01:12:15.520 make any purchase 01:12:16.040 --> 01:12:17.560 right so they can immediately 01:12:17.560 --> 01:12:20.720 have this experience but it 01:12:20.720 --> 01:12:22.560 represents if we can shift Bitcoin 01:12:23.280 --> 01:12:24.600 from sort of like 01:12:24.600 --> 01:12:26.380 way under crap like 01:12:26.380 --> 01:12:28.680 under resourced 01:12:28.680 --> 01:12:30.760 Raspberry Pi and then actually they got 01:12:30.760 --> 01:12:32.760 all sold out in the last half and two and then 01:12:32.760 --> 01:12:34.760 like a bit over the top like crazy 01:12:34.760 --> 01:12:36.700 GPU thing that like doesn't actually 01:12:36.700 --> 01:12:38.740 have display port they're taking the display 01:12:38.740 --> 01:12:40.600 ports off them and they don't have Shah 01:12:40.600 --> 01:12:42.600 instructions and everything and you can't put a mouse and keyboard 01:12:42.600 --> 01:12:44.600 in it you have to build it by all this like 01:12:44.600 --> 01:12:46.420 crappy expensive like 01:12:46.420 --> 01:12:48.520 value ads like from super micro 01:12:48.520 --> 01:12:50.260 and stuff to be able to extract the value from 01:12:50.260 --> 01:12:52.580 the GPU and to be able to get the minimum 01:12:52.580 --> 01:12:54.580 well Mac mini is sort of like the 01:12:54.580 --> 01:12:55.860 minimum unit of 01:12:57.000 --> 01:12:58.340 of you know computational 01:12:58.340 --> 01:13:00.580 data right the NVIDIA use a 01:13:00.580 --> 01:13:02.260 term of a data processing unit 01:13:02.260 --> 01:13:04.880 for the network controller that's much closer 01:13:04.880 --> 01:13:06.660 to like how we use it because we're 01:13:06.660 --> 01:13:08.900 not trying to like use it to do big massive simulations 01:13:08.900 --> 01:13:10.640 we're just trying to use it to do 01:13:10.640 --> 01:13:12.520 really good efficient fast indexing 01:13:12.520 --> 01:13:14.580 and association and then like you bring the 01:13:14.580 --> 01:13:15.380 intelligence to 01:13:16.260 --> 01:13:18.580 to the user right so but 01:13:18.580 --> 01:13:20.620 but what I'm fascinated with 01:13:20.620 --> 01:13:22.360 is like what's going to happen 01:13:23.040 --> 01:13:24.720 you know what else might go 01:13:24.720 --> 01:13:26.480 in the starter kit what else might go 01:13:26.480 --> 01:13:27.780 in the basket of goods 01:13:28.680 --> 01:13:30.680 that you know at the moment we 01:13:30.680 --> 01:13:32.460 think that that if everybody 01:13:32.460 --> 01:13:34.680 just does this and we don't need to like 01:13:34.680 --> 01:13:36.580 add anything else into the kit that would 01:13:36.580 --> 01:13:38.840 like increase the price if we sort of 01:13:38.840 --> 01:13:40.760 like if it's if it's clear that it's that 01:13:41.780 --> 01:13:42.940 that that as long 01:13:42.940 --> 01:13:44.500 as you have like one nose then 01:13:44.500 --> 01:13:46.300 then then you can get the 01:13:46.820 --> 01:13:48.760 you know move away then that keeps the 01:13:48.760 --> 01:13:50.780 entry point that keeps the cost of 01:13:50.780 --> 01:13:52.860 entry and I'm not talking about onboarding 01:13:52.860 --> 01:13:54.820 in terms of like buying bitcoins so that 01:13:54.820 --> 01:13:56.700 then you sell it and then use services because 01:13:56.700 --> 01:13:57.860 there are no services right 01:13:59.260 --> 01:14:00.820 but the absolute minimum 01:14:00.820 --> 01:14:02.640 is that you need a computer 01:14:03.780 --> 01:14:04.760 that can sign 01:14:04.760 --> 01:14:06.920 transactions but not just like sign 01:14:06.920 --> 01:14:08.960 a transaction because there's no one that's just like 01:14:08.960 --> 01:14:10.960 you go out in the world and then you interact with someone 01:14:10.960 --> 01:14:12.860 you also need yes you might have 01:14:12.860 --> 01:14:14.780 a Bitcoin wallet which just use 01:14:14.780 --> 01:14:15.900 the computer for it's fine 01:14:17.020 --> 01:14:18.920 it's you can trust Apple's 01:14:18.920 --> 01:14:20.840 you can trust the Apple hardware more than 01:14:20.840 --> 01:14:22.640 you can trust the Bitcoin wallet even though it's 01:14:22.640 --> 01:14:24.920 cure there's been lots of leaks 01:14:25.720 --> 01:14:27.200 so if that was 01:14:27.200 --> 01:14:29.040 the minimum that you want to sell everything 01:14:29.040 --> 01:14:30.840 you know all of your possessions and all you 01:14:30.840 --> 01:14:33.040 do is Bitcoin then you're still probably at least 01:14:33.040 --> 01:14:34.320 going to need like a Mac money and 01:14:34.320 --> 01:14:36.140 a mouse and like mouse and keyboard and something 01:14:36.140 --> 01:14:38.420 probably right but then 01:14:39.400 --> 01:14:40.360 so yeah 01:14:40.360 --> 01:14:42.400 so that's sort of like the project at the moment but 01:14:42.400 --> 01:14:43.820 there's a potential 01:14:44.360 --> 01:14:46.480 that hey like we've had one halving 01:14:47.320 --> 01:14:48.460 well maybe in 01:14:48.460 --> 01:14:49.320 the next halving 01:14:50.280 --> 01:14:52.080 then the Mac money is this big 01:14:53.320 --> 01:14:54.540 right and then maybe 01:14:54.540 --> 01:14:56.520 maybe halving after that 01:14:56.520 --> 01:14:58.360 it's the size which they already make 01:14:58.360 --> 01:15:00.420 Apple computers the size of your watch 01:15:00.420 --> 01:15:01.740 that maybe it's this big 01:15:02.980 --> 01:15:04.140 and at that point 01:15:04.140 --> 01:15:05.720 you know you start to just 01:15:05.720 --> 01:15:07.700 go hey that's a Bitcoin what do we call 01:15:07.700 --> 01:15:09.800 these things we call them bitcoins because 01:15:09.800 --> 01:15:11.820 they're just computers that like have a 5 01:15:11.820 --> 01:15:14.220 on it you know it's like an M4 01:15:14.800 --> 01:15:16.100 that's the other funny thing about 01:15:16.100 --> 01:15:17.520 Apple is like 01:15:17.520 --> 01:15:19.540 monetary money money supply 01:15:19.540 --> 01:15:21.840 like derivatives I called like 01:15:21.840 --> 01:15:23.720 you know like M1 and M2 01:15:23.720 --> 01:15:25.560 and M3 and M4 and so in 2020 01:15:25.560 --> 01:15:27.300 when the when the computational 01:15:27.300 --> 01:15:29.560 data market you know like came as like 01:15:29.560 --> 01:15:31.900 the M1 came out and then the M2 01:15:31.900 --> 01:15:33.580 and M3 and M4 and then we're going to be to 01:15:33.580 --> 01:15:35.780 we've got entire new levels of derivative 01:15:35.780 --> 01:15:37.920 you know computational capital of like 01:15:37.920 --> 01:15:39.900 M8s and M9s and M10s right 01:15:39.900 --> 01:15:42.220 and AI guys they're really struggling with this 01:15:42.220 --> 01:15:43.920 at the moment because they have like 01:15:43.920 --> 01:15:45.580 crazy names for their products like 01:15:46.560 --> 01:15:47.700 GPT401 Pro 3 01:15:47.700 --> 01:15:48.820 Mini 17 01:15:49.920 --> 01:15:50.880 beta right 01:15:52.060 --> 01:15:52.540 and 01:15:54.600 --> 01:15:55.640 it's like you know 01:15:55.640 --> 01:15:56.980 you get to the iPhone whatever 01:15:56.980 --> 01:15:59.120 and the naming scheme 01:15:59.120 --> 01:16:01.200 doesn't work so we sort of 01:16:01.200 --> 01:16:02.620 like just picked really early like 01:16:02.620 --> 01:16:04.760 this is our number we're just going to stick with it 01:16:04.760 --> 01:16:06.720 right and it's like an AI model 01:16:06.720 --> 01:16:09.000 they get software updates right we're still at the 01:16:09.000 --> 01:16:11.380 kind of like GPT going from like GPT1 01:16:11.380 --> 01:16:13.260 to GPT2 to GPT3 01:16:13.260 --> 01:16:14.740 maybe we get coherence by 01:16:14.740 --> 01:16:16.920 by middle of next year 01:16:16.920 --> 01:16:18.960 then like people go ah like they're doing 01:16:18.960 --> 01:16:20.820 the computational data market like that's 01:16:20.820 --> 01:16:23.040 you know but the open AI guys 01:16:23.040 --> 01:16:24.580 had the same kind of struggle 01:16:24.580 --> 01:16:27.080 it was like seven years from when they were founded 01:16:27.080 --> 01:16:28.420 to when they shipped 01:16:29.260 --> 01:16:30.640 GPT and that 01:16:30.640 --> 01:16:32.460 and that product actually sort of like 01:16:32.460 --> 01:16:34.380 crossed over the threshold of being 01:16:34.380 --> 01:16:36.540 something that you know anyone 01:16:36.540 --> 01:16:38.680 on their laptop can interact with it 01:16:38.680 --> 01:16:41.020 and understand what they're dealing with 01:16:41.020 --> 01:16:42.840 whereas it was like you know gobbledygook 01:16:42.840 --> 01:16:43.720 nonsense 01:16:44.370 --> 01:16:46.720 and all of the early periods 01:16:46.720 --> 01:16:48.960 of that and so we had the same sort of 01:16:48.960 --> 01:16:49.260 struggles right 01:16:49.960 --> 01:16:50.500 yep 01:16:51.920 --> 01:16:53.040 okay so 01:16:53.040 --> 01:16:54.140 let me try to 01:16:54.980 --> 01:16:55.620 synthesize 01:16:55.620 --> 01:16:57.940 with the overall pain 01:16:58.200 --> 01:17:00.460 problems and solutions that you're offering 01:17:00.460 --> 01:17:01.220 the market here 01:17:01.220 --> 01:17:03.400 what I see is that you 01:17:03.400 --> 01:17:04.480 underlying 01:17:06.240 --> 01:17:07.400 the most important 01:17:09.400 --> 01:17:10.040 currency 01:17:10.040 --> 01:17:11.260 is information 01:17:12.760 --> 01:17:14.280 even in your 01:17:14.280 --> 01:17:16.280 mindset it seems to be even more important 01:17:16.280 --> 01:17:17.200 than the dollar 01:17:17.200 --> 01:17:18.680 fiat it's really 01:17:19.200 --> 01:17:20.960 information and how to 01:17:20.960 --> 01:17:21.620 accurately 01:17:24.600 --> 01:17:25.360 categorize 01:17:25.360 --> 01:17:27.020 what information is more 01:17:27.020 --> 01:17:27.700 valuable 01:17:29.280 --> 01:17:30.940 over other information 01:17:30.940 --> 01:17:33.100 and it seems to me like you identify 01:17:33.100 --> 01:17:35.320 within the market an overall 01:17:35.320 --> 01:17:37.000 disconnect between 01:17:39.100 --> 01:17:41.380 the currency that we use 01:17:41.380 --> 01:17:43.220 and we speculate with including 01:17:43.220 --> 01:17:45.300 dollars and that you see 01:17:45.300 --> 01:17:46.520 a deeper level 01:17:47.740 --> 01:17:49.540 area of currency 01:17:49.540 --> 01:17:51.280 of exchange which is information 01:17:51.280 --> 01:17:53.080 itself it is data 01:17:53.080 --> 01:17:55.220 itself and I see that you 01:17:55.220 --> 01:17:57.500 have identified a huge problem in the world 01:17:57.500 --> 01:17:59.080 that you've seen okay 01:17:59.080 --> 01:18:00.700 well bitcoin is not just 01:18:01.300 --> 01:18:03.200 a coin 01:18:03.200 --> 01:18:05.540 but it's also bit and it's bit coin 01:18:05.540 --> 01:18:07.040 it is the coin 01:18:07.040 --> 01:18:09.260 of the internet it is the 01:18:09.260 --> 01:18:11.300 technology that allows us to 01:18:12.880 --> 01:18:13.560 properly 01:18:13.560 --> 01:18:15.020 price 01:18:15.560 --> 01:18:16.420 information 01:18:17.420 --> 01:18:19.620 and that the pricing system 01:18:19.620 --> 01:18:21.320 of information is in itself 01:18:21.320 --> 01:18:22.720 a very important 01:18:23.920 --> 01:18:25.780 way of identifying 01:18:25.780 --> 01:18:27.340 it's an important 01:18:27.340 --> 01:18:29.160 message of information itself 01:18:29.160 --> 01:18:31.180 the pricing system is a very important 01:18:33.720 --> 01:18:34.560 message 01:18:35.360 --> 01:18:37.400 to the world as to how things are 01:18:37.400 --> 01:18:37.820 valued 01:18:37.820 --> 01:18:40.960 you see data as 01:18:42.420 --> 01:18:43.580 rightfully so 01:18:43.580 --> 01:18:45.400 as the most 01:18:48.780 --> 01:18:49.180 use 01:18:49.180 --> 01:18:51.840 asset that at the same time 01:18:52.660 --> 01:18:54.360 does not have 01:18:54.360 --> 01:18:56.540 and I can't find a better term for it 01:18:56.540 --> 01:18:58.820 does not have a true free market 01:18:58.820 --> 01:19:00.080 that is 01:19:00.640 --> 01:19:02.440 separate from a couple 01:19:02.960 --> 01:19:05.140 entities manipulating it 01:19:07.100 --> 01:19:08.880 and having an 01:19:08.880 --> 01:19:10.340 advantage over the rest 01:19:10.680 --> 01:19:11.560 in a sense 01:19:11.560 --> 01:19:14.320 what I see you doing is 01:19:14.880 --> 01:19:15.880 freeing the 01:19:15.880 --> 01:19:18.120 working to free the market 01:19:18.880 --> 01:19:20.640 by emphasizing the bit 01:19:20.640 --> 01:19:22.000 aspect of bitcoin 01:19:22.640 --> 01:19:23.940 where you are now 01:19:23.940 --> 01:19:25.980 taking a stance which is 01:19:25.980 --> 01:19:28.640 a free stance away from bitcoin itself 01:19:28.640 --> 01:19:30.380 understanding that bitcoin 01:19:30.380 --> 01:19:32.420 is expressed in three main 01:19:32.420 --> 01:19:34.540 ways BSV, BCH 01:19:34.540 --> 01:19:35.740 and BTC 01:19:35.740 --> 01:19:38.160 and that you are also open to 01:19:38.160 --> 01:19:39.680 other networks like 01:19:39.680 --> 01:19:41.100 knock chain for example 01:19:41.540 --> 01:19:43.460 where we could 01:19:45.540 --> 01:19:47.700 use these blockchains 01:19:47.700 --> 01:19:49.900 as a means of 01:19:51.640 --> 01:19:53.980 having better coordination 01:19:53.980 --> 01:19:55.880 in the market in terms 01:19:55.880 --> 01:19:56.920 of 01:19:57.740 --> 01:19:58.840 spending energy 01:19:59.740 --> 01:20:00.360 and 01:20:01.860 --> 01:20:03.400 having a 01:20:04.300 --> 01:20:05.360 better price 01:20:05.360 --> 01:20:06.820 signals regarding data 01:20:07.340 --> 01:20:09.300 in an open free market environment 01:20:09.300 --> 01:20:10.780 is this pretty much the 01:20:11.400 --> 01:20:12.560 overall picture here 01:20:12.560 --> 01:20:15.100 have I been able to really capture 01:20:15.100 --> 01:20:17.620 what it is that the challenge 01:20:17.620 --> 01:20:18.160 is here 01:20:19.500 --> 01:20:21.420 mostly I just wouldn't say 01:20:21.420 --> 01:20:22.140 that I'm 01:20:22.140 --> 01:20:24.820 doing the free market thing 01:20:25.200 --> 01:20:26.260 that's just what bitcoins 01:20:27.220 --> 01:20:29.360 that's a long 01:20:29.360 --> 01:20:29.880 time ago 01:20:29.880 --> 01:20:31.940 but it's also 01:20:31.940 --> 01:20:33.960 been a speculative asset 01:20:33.960 --> 01:20:35.320 that's based on subsidies 01:20:35.880 --> 01:20:37.820 so what bitcoin is 01:20:37.820 --> 01:20:39.340 or might become has the same 01:20:39.340 --> 01:20:40.860 urban problem of 01:20:40.860 --> 01:20:44.160 it went and consumed 01:20:44.160 --> 01:20:45.380 a bunch of capital and 01:20:45.380 --> 01:20:46.880 hasn't delivered yet 01:20:48.040 --> 01:20:50.160 in that transition 01:20:50.160 --> 01:20:52.020 but it does do this base 01:20:52.020 --> 01:20:53.940 infrastructure of creating 01:20:53.940 --> 01:20:56.100 this amazing open internet 01:20:56.100 --> 01:20:57.320 global free market 01:20:58.120 --> 01:20:59.520 right so in that place 01:20:59.520 --> 01:21:00.920 there's like lots of people who go online 01:21:00.920 --> 01:21:02.840 who are like hey can you give me 01:21:02.840 --> 01:21:04.920 $30 billion to build a really big 01:21:04.920 --> 01:21:05.420 computer 01:21:07.980 --> 01:21:08.980 and then they just like 01:21:08.980 --> 01:21:10.640 they sell to the market 01:21:11.220 --> 01:21:13.120 like hey here's a big thing 01:21:13.120 --> 01:21:14.180 of like can you give me the money 01:21:14.740 --> 01:21:17.060 and then whatever words that they say 01:21:17.060 --> 01:21:18.900 to the internet that gets them to give them the money 01:21:18.900 --> 01:21:20.920 like that's where it goes because a free market 01:21:20.920 --> 01:21:22.780 there's all this free capital floating out there 01:21:23.210 --> 01:21:25.240 free energy and it's going to find somewhere to go 01:21:25.240 --> 01:21:26.960 and like people got to say the right words 01:21:26.960 --> 01:21:29.060 right but notice how 01:21:29.060 --> 01:21:31.160 like in your thing you're saying like well you know 01:21:31.160 --> 01:21:33.280 what's it's not just about the information 01:21:33.280 --> 01:21:35.180 but it's about value and so 01:21:35.180 --> 01:21:37.180 well what is XAI worth or what is 01:21:37.180 --> 01:21:39.720 open AI what is AI in general 01:21:39.720 --> 01:21:41.280 with people don't know it's either 01:21:41.280 --> 01:21:43.020 with infinite dollars or it's worth nothing 01:21:43.020 --> 01:21:45.420 well that's just exactly what they said about bitcoin 01:21:45.420 --> 01:21:47.260 right and it's not with infinite 01:21:47.260 --> 01:21:49.180 dollars and it's also not worth nothing 01:21:49.180 --> 01:21:51.240 right but if you had good 01:21:51.240 --> 01:21:52.820 the information 01:21:52.820 --> 01:21:55.360 about bitcoin that existed in 01:21:55.360 --> 01:21:55.800 2010 01:21:56.880 --> 01:21:59.040 that didn't have price did it but it was really 01:21:59.040 --> 01:22:00.780 valuable now there's 01:22:00.780 --> 01:22:02.280 information that's around today 01:22:02.820 --> 01:22:05.040 that like if you don't just buy 01:22:05.040 --> 01:22:07.160 like the free advertising 01:22:07.160 --> 01:22:09.200 like if you're not on the free tier of the internet 01:22:09.200 --> 01:22:11.100 of like thinking that Sam Altman 01:22:11.100 --> 01:22:12.160 is doing anything interesting 01:22:13.280 --> 01:22:13.800 right 01:22:15.200 --> 01:22:15.720 then 01:22:16.420 --> 01:22:17.680 which most of the 01:22:18.880 --> 01:22:20.940 world economy doesn't run on like 01:22:20.940 --> 01:22:23.040 free internet information 01:22:23.040 --> 01:22:24.720 you know on social networks 01:22:24.720 --> 01:22:26.900 and stuff it runs on like real companies 01:22:26.900 --> 01:22:28.940 that have intellectual property and that have 01:22:28.940 --> 01:22:30.900 nondisclosure agreements and that they 01:22:30.900 --> 01:22:32.960 don't put their top secret files like 01:22:32.960 --> 01:22:34.340 on Amazon they like 01:22:34.340 --> 01:22:37.000 they probably don't even put them on the computer 01:22:37.000 --> 01:22:37.820 right 01:22:38.720 --> 01:22:40.600 so there is this also 01:22:40.600 --> 01:22:42.200 this free market for information 01:22:42.200 --> 01:22:44.360 what there isn't is like 01:22:45.180 --> 01:22:46.380 a price 01:22:47.120 --> 01:22:48.700 there isn't like a consensus 01:22:48.700 --> 01:22:50.140 over that price right 01:22:50.470 --> 01:22:52.200 part of the reason that like bitcoin got 01:22:52.200 --> 01:22:54.720 all these different ways 01:22:54.720 --> 01:22:56.760 is because it was so good 01:22:56.760 --> 01:22:58.700 at that and it just like was a 01:22:58.700 --> 01:23:00.580 massive huge target like hey whoever 01:23:00.580 --> 01:23:02.480 can come to this huge pool of energy 01:23:02.480 --> 01:23:04.000 and capital like 01:23:05.900 --> 01:23:07.340 all you have to do is run off 01:23:07.340 --> 01:23:08.620 run off with a few 01:23:08.620 --> 01:23:10.280 you know like if there's like some 01:23:10.280 --> 01:23:12.940 huge foot knocks of like unguarded 01:23:12.940 --> 01:23:14.740 gold and then like the doors left 01:23:14.740 --> 01:23:16.740 open well you don't have to like steal 01:23:16.740 --> 01:23:18.620 the whole thing but like you know 01:23:18.620 --> 01:23:20.640 after a few couple of years 01:23:20.640 --> 01:23:22.460 of like people coming in and like running off with 01:23:22.460 --> 01:23:25.080 3 bars then a guy he like finds a bulldozer 01:23:25.080 --> 01:23:26.660 he's like well I'm going to come in 01:23:26.660 --> 01:23:28.400 and I'm going to load up all my trucks right 01:23:28.400 --> 01:23:30.460 and can you really blame them for that like 01:23:30.460 --> 01:23:32.360 well maybe we should have like put more 01:23:32.360 --> 01:23:34.460 investment in defending that 01:23:34.460 --> 01:23:35.800 like the but 01:23:35.800 --> 01:23:38.600 and what bitcoin is 01:23:38.600 --> 01:23:40.240 to get started it's just subsidies 01:23:40.240 --> 01:23:42.220 so it is just this hey everybody 01:23:42.700 --> 01:23:44.440 take all your speculative hopes 01:23:44.440 --> 01:23:46.600 and dreams and capital and like lock 01:23:46.600 --> 01:23:48.420 them all up in this thing and then like 01:23:48.420 --> 01:23:50.140 thank you for sending me all your hopes 01:23:50.140 --> 01:23:52.420 and dreams and free capital I'll like 01:23:52.420 --> 01:23:53.960 I'll sell at the top thank you very much 01:23:53.960 --> 01:23:55.860 and you know and like 01:23:56.420 --> 01:23:57.580 whoever not 01:23:58.620 --> 01:24:00.420 Satoshi necessarily but I'm pretty sure 01:24:00.420 --> 01:24:02.260 like anybody who was around in those early days 01:24:02.260 --> 01:24:03.940 like you're never going to have them 01:24:03.940 --> 01:24:06.540 anymore because they don't have 01:24:06.540 --> 01:24:07.840 really have any reason to 01:24:08.320 --> 01:24:10.500 right yep so it's about 01:24:10.500 --> 01:24:11.860 it's about price and information 01:24:11.860 --> 01:24:13.660 and what bitcoin represents 01:24:14.600 --> 01:24:16.040 isn't like what the infrastructure 01:24:16.040 --> 01:24:18.080 was at the time it was 01:24:18.080 --> 01:24:20.080 the information about what was going on 01:24:20.080 --> 01:24:21.700 in the world and what and 01:24:21.700 --> 01:24:24.040 and it carried the cryptographic 01:24:24.040 --> 01:24:25.860 algorithm because of the properties 01:24:25.860 --> 01:24:27.960 of that cryptography 01:24:27.960 --> 01:24:30.020 that carried with it certain 01:24:30.020 --> 01:24:31.900 capacity and so 01:24:31.900 --> 01:24:33.620 all of that today 01:24:33.620 --> 01:24:36.060 essentially you have like a little bit of transaction 01:24:36.060 --> 01:24:37.780 processing but it's not very good 01:24:37.780 --> 01:24:39.780 the nodes network plus 01:24:39.780 --> 01:24:41.880 the base load of the 01:24:42.400 --> 01:24:43.780 cryptography if you know how 01:24:43.780 --> 01:24:45.780 to make use of that cryptography 01:24:46.460 --> 01:24:47.700 it's an enormously 01:24:47.700 --> 01:24:49.660 subsidized you know infrastructure 01:24:50.500 --> 01:24:51.000 capacity 01:24:51.820 --> 01:24:53.820 that that that you can 01:24:53.820 --> 01:24:55.180 use to to build secure 01:24:55.720 --> 01:24:57.820 information systems right but you can also 01:24:57.820 --> 01:24:59.920 hurt yourself with it so it's like 01:24:59.920 --> 01:25:01.480 you know there's a reason that Michael 01:25:01.480 --> 01:25:03.040 Saylor is kind of doing it because 01:25:04.160 --> 01:25:05.660 you know people can see 01:25:05.660 --> 01:25:07.740 they can trust their their broker and 01:25:07.740 --> 01:25:09.800 they're paying a bunch of like important money people 01:25:10.340 --> 01:25:11.440 so that well if 01:25:11.440 --> 01:25:13.700 they lose all their money then so did all of the 01:25:13.700 --> 01:25:15.380 other people that have their retirement savings 01:25:15.380 --> 01:25:17.580 you know like invested in Michael Saylor 01:25:17.580 --> 01:25:19.000 right and then people can 01:25:19.660 --> 01:25:21.340 put trust in a 01:25:21.340 --> 01:25:22.540 in a specific 01:25:23.500 --> 01:25:24.500 person when they do that too 01:25:25.540 --> 01:25:27.440 so there's been many different approaches 01:25:27.440 --> 01:25:29.280 to to market in bitcoin 01:25:29.280 --> 01:25:31.120 and each one can be 01:25:32.300 --> 01:25:33.340 highlighted by 01:25:33.340 --> 01:25:35.220 appealing to a 01:25:35.220 --> 01:25:36.880 an aspect of 01:25:36.880 --> 01:25:38.420 human desire and 01:25:39.180 --> 01:25:40.840 and use case 01:25:42.040 --> 01:25:42.680 utility 01:25:43.220 --> 01:25:45.220 found within the bitcoin 01:25:45.220 --> 01:25:47.280 architecture I'd say that the 01:25:47.280 --> 01:25:49.160 the BTC approach 01:25:49.160 --> 01:25:50.760 to market was appealing to 01:25:50.760 --> 01:25:53.780 and still appeals to the lowest common denominator of 01:25:53.780 --> 01:25:55.280 you actually do nothing 01:25:55.280 --> 01:25:57.300 with this you just hold it 01:25:57.300 --> 01:25:59.440 and it goes up in price because 01:25:59.440 --> 01:26:01.380 you just speculate on it and with 01:26:01.380 --> 01:26:03.220 the idea of it being digital gold 01:26:03.220 --> 01:26:05.600 with its monetary properties 01:26:05.600 --> 01:26:07.360 that justify being digital gold 01:26:07.360 --> 01:26:09.260 it's it's a it's it's an 01:26:09.260 --> 01:26:10.660 asset that you can just hold 01:26:10.960 --> 01:26:11.840 and store value 01:26:12.620 --> 01:26:15.100 you had what it is right it's like it's 01:26:15.100 --> 01:26:17.300 if you were convinced by that at some point you actually 01:26:17.300 --> 01:26:18.720 just start buying physical gold 01:26:19.580 --> 01:26:20.780 yeah correct 01:26:21.960 --> 01:26:23.480 or complement it 01:26:23.480 --> 01:26:25.040 right just see it along with 01:26:25.040 --> 01:26:27.700 with gold here is BTC right 01:26:27.700 --> 01:26:29.280 no because like the 01:26:29.280 --> 01:26:31.480 entirety there's all this extra overhead 01:26:31.480 --> 01:26:33.340 and risks taken from the tokenization 01:26:34.620 --> 01:26:35.900 that if you really 01:26:35.900 --> 01:26:37.160 you know risk averse 01:26:38.300 --> 01:26:39.440 then you'd buy 01:26:39.440 --> 01:26:41.520 you just end up buying the real thing so 01:26:41.520 --> 01:26:43.580 Bitcoin the BTC like digital to 01:26:43.580 --> 01:26:45.020 gold narrative has been an amazing 01:26:45.700 --> 01:26:47.320 advertisement for physical because 01:26:47.320 --> 01:26:49.340 it's taught more people in the world it you know 01:26:49.340 --> 01:26:51.560 it's even to the point that like Ron 01:26:51.560 --> 01:26:53.640 Paul might get to like you know in the Fed now 01:26:54.160 --> 01:26:54.620 yeah 01:26:55.240 --> 01:26:57.900 in the Fed yes yes 01:26:57.900 --> 01:26:59.560 yeah yeah and 01:26:59.560 --> 01:27:01.580 and that was like 2008 like right before the 01:27:01.580 --> 01:27:02.140 creation of Bitcoin 01:27:03.300 --> 01:27:03.780 so 01:27:05.240 --> 01:27:06.900 but the question then 01:27:06.900 --> 01:27:09.020 is if you remove that if you did that 01:27:09.020 --> 01:27:10.920 you're like no I have physical gold thank you 01:27:10.920 --> 01:27:13.240 I'm looking for you know these 01:27:13.240 --> 01:27:15.300 other properties of money like I can't 01:27:15.300 --> 01:27:16.120 spend gold on the internet 01:27:17.160 --> 01:27:17.640 right 01:27:18.800 --> 01:27:21.060 or like I'm looking to you know account 01:27:21.060 --> 01:27:23.360 for a little tiny you know infinitesimal 01:27:23.360 --> 01:27:25.320 or floating point unit things 01:27:25.320 --> 01:27:27.340 but you know 01:27:27.340 --> 01:27:28.640 gold doesn't go that small 01:27:29.860 --> 01:27:30.820 right so 01:27:31.240 --> 01:27:33.360 you know you don't just necessarily like 01:27:33.360 --> 01:27:35.280 only hold gold you have a home and you have 01:27:35.280 --> 01:27:36.860 you know like assets and things right 01:27:36.860 --> 01:27:39.380 and so there is the existence of 01:27:39.380 --> 01:27:41.580 digital technologies and there's this 01:27:41.580 --> 01:27:43.020 like Bitcoin part of it 01:27:43.020 --> 01:27:44.960 can we turn 01:27:44.960 --> 01:27:47.380 that from the speculative subsidy token 01:27:47.380 --> 01:27:49.440 thing that just people treat as an actual 01:27:49.440 --> 01:27:51.380 just way to make dollars right 01:27:51.380 --> 01:27:53.340 and it's kind of out of ideas like 01:27:53.340 --> 01:27:55.340 I said with the urban thing like 01:27:55.340 --> 01:27:56.700 Bitcoin has been like 01:27:57.400 --> 01:27:59.220 all of the ideas are already on 01:27:59.220 --> 01:28:00.600 Bitcoin talk in like 2012 01:28:00.600 --> 01:28:03.360 there is no new information like being 01:28:03.360 --> 01:28:04.540 produced by Bitcoin 01:28:05.340 --> 01:28:07.280 you know like it's all gotten 01:28:07.280 --> 01:28:09.200 trained it's all in AI models you can 01:28:09.200 --> 01:28:11.040 just go to that and and it's all 01:28:11.040 --> 01:28:12.780 it's all there right so 01:28:13.340 --> 01:28:14.920 I say that they've tried to 01:28:15.820 --> 01:28:17.020 create a 01:28:19.300 --> 01:28:21.000 amnesia about these 01:28:21.000 --> 01:28:23.280 these very important and other aspects 01:28:23.280 --> 01:28:23.880 of Bitcoin 01:28:24.820 --> 01:28:27.280 so that it's almost I wouldn't 01:28:27.280 --> 01:28:29.080 look at it as like a conspiracy sort of thing 01:28:29.080 --> 01:28:30.960 of people sitting in a room getting hallowed take out that 01:28:30.960 --> 01:28:33.260 it's really just people on the free market going like 01:28:33.260 --> 01:28:35.100 I'm me and they're my enemy and then there's 01:28:35.100 --> 01:28:36.860 lots of these battles that happen all the time 01:28:36.860 --> 01:28:38.600 the collective like forgetting 01:28:39.740 --> 01:28:41.080 is I view it as a 01:28:41.080 --> 01:28:43.260 technological thing because the GPU doesn't 01:28:43.260 --> 01:28:44.680 have any persistent memory on it 01:28:44.680 --> 01:28:47.140 if a GPU you know like had a 01:28:47.140 --> 01:28:49.040 blockchain file system with an SSD 01:28:49.040 --> 01:28:51.040 in there then 01:28:51.040 --> 01:28:53.180 it wouldn't have that problem they would just remember everything 01:28:53.180 --> 01:28:55.120 but it's a technical challenge 01:28:55.120 --> 01:28:57.040 for them to do for them 01:28:57.040 --> 01:28:59.300 to do that but then there's also the fact that like 01:28:59.300 --> 01:29:00.820 information is valuable 01:29:00.820 --> 01:29:03.100 so you're not going to give it away so somebody has to come 01:29:03.100 --> 01:29:04.780 and like knock on your door and pay you from it 01:29:05.380 --> 01:29:06.740 there is a huge information 01:29:06.740 --> 01:29:08.920 market of people constantly selling information 01:29:08.920 --> 01:29:10.780 for money but there isn't like 01:29:10.780 --> 01:29:13.180 an advertising search index that you can 01:29:13.180 --> 01:29:15.020 go and like look up people for who's going to tell you 01:29:15.020 --> 01:29:17.160 something right because it's a little bit 01:29:17.160 --> 01:29:18.880 in conflict with like how the 01:29:18.880 --> 01:29:20.840 20th century world 01:29:20.840 --> 01:29:22.380 is kind of like still working 01:29:22.380 --> 01:29:24.900 but on Bitcoin time scales 01:29:24.900 --> 01:29:27.040 you just go forward 10 years like all that's 01:29:27.040 --> 01:29:28.800 you know that's already being solved by pump 01:29:28.800 --> 01:29:30.500 fun because they just like the moment 01:29:30.500 --> 01:29:32.880 that I saw this video I think it was during 01:29:32.880 --> 01:29:34.640 the election somebody was speaking 01:29:35.400 --> 01:29:37.140 and literally like faster than 01:29:37.140 --> 01:29:38.940 the transcription shows 01:29:38.940 --> 01:29:40.620 on on the TV feed 01:29:40.620 --> 01:29:42.960 of like the I 01:29:42.960 --> 01:29:44.980 can't remember what the clip was but I think 01:29:44.980 --> 01:29:46.920 it was Trump faster than 01:29:46.920 --> 01:29:48.900 like Trump was speaking the words 01:29:48.900 --> 01:29:50.980 are showing up on the pump fun like new 01:29:50.980 --> 01:29:52.860 feed so and I and then 01:29:52.860 --> 01:29:54.780 and then the TV signal is even delayed 01:29:54.780 --> 01:29:56.780 so like the new word is coming 01:29:56.780 --> 01:29:58.720 on the pump fun like on the internet 01:29:58.720 --> 01:30:00.940 screen before you even see it 01:30:00.940 --> 01:30:02.700 on CNN well right 01:30:02.700 --> 01:30:05.140 and so that market is already and it's 01:30:05.140 --> 01:30:06.860 and it's being like you know tokenized 01:30:06.860 --> 01:30:08.880 into things on Solana there isn't like 01:30:08.880 --> 01:30:10.580 a way to filter the Solana feed but 01:30:10.580 --> 01:30:12.940 like you know there's a lot of like twitch 01:30:12.940 --> 01:30:14.940 ideas that that everybody 01:30:14.940 --> 01:30:16.940 was playing around in 2020 which well 01:30:16.940 --> 01:30:19.100 that's there on that's there on 01:30:19.100 --> 01:30:21.120 Solana right now was like pump fun 01:30:21.120 --> 01:30:23.000 is like crypto 4chan right 01:30:23.000 --> 01:30:24.800 and 4chan is always like 01:30:24.800 --> 01:30:27.060 as well we can store 01:30:27.060 --> 01:30:29.100 data on Solana like you can on a 01:30:29.100 --> 01:30:30.980 BSV though that's like 01:30:30.980 --> 01:30:33.060 when it doesn't really matter because 01:30:33.060 --> 01:30:34.900 when you're looking for things that are like 01:30:34.900 --> 01:30:36.480 really high real time 01:30:36.480 --> 01:30:39.040 mm-hmm it doesn't matter it's stored on the pump 01:30:39.040 --> 01:30:41.020 fun website people don't give a shit about like 01:30:41.020 --> 01:30:42.920 some theoretical like technicality behind 01:30:42.920 --> 01:30:44.980 the scenes they care about well like getting 01:30:44.980 --> 01:30:46.900 information into your into your eyeballs 01:30:46.900 --> 01:30:48.560 as soon as possible like 01:30:49.600 --> 01:30:50.920 Twitter yeah it stores 01:30:50.920 --> 01:30:53.120 stuff kind of like but you can't 01:30:53.120 --> 01:30:55.000 search it very well so it's like sort of a 01:30:55.000 --> 01:30:56.980 little bit a little bit in between right but 01:30:56.980 --> 01:30:59.040 it has all of the audience it 01:30:59.040 --> 01:31:00.460 doesn't matter you could like great just 01:31:00.460 --> 01:31:02.580 on your hard drive but you're still going to 01:31:02.580 --> 01:31:04.700 post it on Twitter and distribute it and same 01:31:04.700 --> 01:31:06.660 thing for pump fun like you might get 01:31:06.660 --> 01:31:08.940 a few little you know people it's like 01:31:08.940 --> 01:31:10.640 the reddit new feed there might be like 01:31:10.640 --> 01:31:12.820 12 people that see your thing on pump fun 01:31:12.820 --> 01:31:14.880 but you have all these capabilities 01:31:14.880 --> 01:31:16.660 and then just go on Twitter we have the 01:31:16.660 --> 01:31:18.520 mass audience and then you and then people 01:31:18.520 --> 01:31:20.360 promote them there so Elon 01:31:20.360 --> 01:31:22.240 the reason that you know he's like 01:31:22.240 --> 01:31:24.500 king of the world at the moment it's because 01:31:24.500 --> 01:31:26.500 he figured out how to monetize that like 01:31:26.500 --> 01:31:28.120 there were all these people you know like 01:31:28.660 --> 01:31:30.740 squeezing Twitter drive for all of its 01:31:30.740 --> 01:31:32.620 all of its value until it 01:31:32.620 --> 01:31:34.600 basically went out of business and he was 01:31:34.600 --> 01:31:36.560 the guy who was going to be the worst hard at it and then 01:31:36.560 --> 01:31:38.440 miraculously he managed to pivot it 01:31:38.440 --> 01:31:40.340 and turned it from losing money into making 01:31:40.340 --> 01:31:42.300 money and the valuation went up back up to 01:31:42.300 --> 01:31:44.700 44 billion again and the advertisers 01:31:44.700 --> 01:31:46.540 came back okay 01:31:46.540 --> 01:31:48.560 see now now we're talking about 01:31:48.560 --> 01:31:50.660 something you and I agree which is 01:31:50.660 --> 01:31:52.720 using Bitcoin for these things 01:31:52.720 --> 01:31:54.500 that most people don't 01:31:55.480 --> 01:31:56.980 don't yeah I get to under 01:31:56.980 --> 01:31:58.880 I see most people are yet to 01:31:58.880 --> 01:32:00.640 I know you said that it's 01:32:00.640 --> 01:32:02.760 still there in the Bitcoin talk forums in 2012 01:32:02.760 --> 01:32:04.780 like that we can have models 01:32:04.780 --> 01:32:06.920 like spit out that information for everyone 01:32:06.920 --> 01:32:08.380 want to learn right now but 01:32:08.820 --> 01:32:09.860 there's still a 01:32:10.740 --> 01:32:12.940 mindset that has forgotten 01:32:12.940 --> 01:32:15.200 about what Bitcoin is truly capable of 01:32:16.560 --> 01:32:18.800 where do you see Bitcoin cash in this because 01:32:18.800 --> 01:32:20.640 Bitcoin cash has this idea that 01:32:20.640 --> 01:32:22.760 Bitcoin was meant to 01:32:22.760 --> 01:32:25.080 have you spent coffee down the street 01:32:25.080 --> 01:32:27.060 whereas for me yes that's 01:32:27.060 --> 01:32:28.840 part of it I can do that but 01:32:28.840 --> 01:32:30.860 that really doesn't work for me. Well now none of the Bitcoins are 01:32:30.860 --> 01:32:32.540 relevant because Bitcoin itself 01:32:32.540 --> 01:32:34.860 has been replaced with this computational data market 01:32:34.860 --> 01:32:37.080 so what people care about is not Bitcoin 01:32:37.080 --> 01:32:39.440 but MicroStrategy what's happening with MicroStrategy price 01:32:39.440 --> 01:32:40.840 what's happening with the Nvidia price 01:32:40.840 --> 01:32:42.780 what's happening with Elon Musk and Trump 01:32:42.780 --> 01:32:45.180 and everything and that level event and Doge 01:32:45.180 --> 01:32:46.900 right and think about 01:32:46.900 --> 01:32:48.660 before well Doge was like an altcoin 01:32:48.660 --> 01:32:50.060 that's less 01:32:50.700 --> 01:32:52.180 that has less speculative value 01:32:52.820 --> 01:32:55.140 that doesn't like it doesn't have Doge.com 01:32:55.140 --> 01:32:56.700 anymore essentially right 01:32:56.700 --> 01:32:58.580 it doesn't carry enough like 01:32:58.580 --> 01:32:59.940 extra speculative 01:33:00.640 --> 01:33:01.400 Mimetic value 01:33:02.260 --> 01:33:03.500 and just being 01:33:04.020 --> 01:33:05.000 like coin fork 01:33:06.080 --> 01:33:07.580 with a funny picture on it 01:33:07.580 --> 01:33:09.460 or it's like in 2014 01:33:09.460 --> 01:33:10.740 like there was like 01:33:14.460 --> 01:33:15.600 not coin easy 01:33:15.600 --> 01:33:17.880 what was it, Kanye coin or something 01:33:17.880 --> 01:33:20.040 there was like a Kanye coin and he like sued them 01:33:20.040 --> 01:33:21.000 and tried to shut it down and everything 01:33:21.000 --> 01:33:23.380 and then like last month he sold his Twitter account 01:33:23.380 --> 01:33:25.520 to like some Solana meme coin 01:33:25.520 --> 01:33:27.500 people Trump has a meme coin and everything right 01:33:27.500 --> 01:33:28.220 so 01:33:29.720 --> 01:33:30.800 so this 01:33:30.800 --> 01:33:32.320 this new market of like 01:33:32.320 --> 01:33:33.720 computation and attention 01:33:33.720 --> 01:33:35.500 and converting it into capital 01:33:36.220 --> 01:33:38.640 in 2020 it was the GameStop thing 01:33:38.640 --> 01:33:40.200 the GameStop thing was really like 01:33:40.200 --> 01:33:41.320 the proper 01:33:41.990 --> 01:33:44.360 kind of like that was like the pump fund of Reddit 01:33:44.360 --> 01:33:45.280 right 01:33:45.280 --> 01:33:47.820 that was like taking all of this like 01:33:48.800 --> 01:33:50.240 and the original 01:33:50.240 --> 01:33:52.800 Trump thing in like 2016 was very much like this as well 01:33:54.140 --> 01:33:55.720 right and like Martin Schrelle 01:33:55.720 --> 01:33:56.780 he was like the 01:33:57.520 --> 01:33:59.100 Beth Jezos Iac 01:33:59.720 --> 01:34:01.200 dude of the time 01:34:01.200 --> 01:34:03.120 and like Hillary Clinton and stuff like that 01:34:03.700 --> 01:34:05.400 and all this like computational capital 01:34:05.400 --> 01:34:07.300 that is what Bitcoin is like Twitter 01:34:07.300 --> 01:34:08.640 Bitcoin Twitter 01:34:08.640 --> 01:34:11.140 is that actual value that 01:34:11.140 --> 01:34:13.400 sort of on a real time 01:34:13.400 --> 01:34:15.400 every day basis that if you come in 01:34:15.400 --> 01:34:17.200 and you're like a DGN 01:34:17.200 --> 01:34:18.680 doing work in the crypto market 01:34:19.540 --> 01:34:21.000 Twitter is Bitcoin 01:34:21.000 --> 01:34:23.020 like for all intents and purposes 01:34:23.020 --> 01:34:24.700 it is the network that is 01:34:24.700 --> 01:34:26.580 connecting everybody 01:34:26.580 --> 01:34:28.500 and it's where people are putting 01:34:28.880 --> 01:34:30.380 you know human capital in 01:34:30.760 --> 01:34:32.820 and they're getting human capital out 01:34:32.820 --> 01:34:35.180 so the reason that Elon is sort of like 01:34:35.180 --> 01:34:36.760 seems to be in this magical new position 01:34:36.760 --> 01:34:39.100 is because he is sort of like 01:34:39.100 --> 01:34:41.460 the first of the new Zuckerbergs 01:34:41.460 --> 01:34:43.120 he's like not like 01:34:43.120 --> 01:34:44.680 Mark Zuckerberg which was sort of 01:34:44.680 --> 01:34:46.580 like set up all these 01:34:47.800 --> 01:34:48.360 feudalism 01:34:48.860 --> 01:34:50.500 sort of things but like now that 01:34:50.500 --> 01:34:52.500 all that system has been done and we're now 01:34:52.500 --> 01:34:54.460 like going into digital economy 01:34:55.080 --> 01:34:56.520 like Dorsey was kind of 01:34:56.520 --> 01:34:58.480 like the last of them right like Dorsey 01:34:58.480 --> 01:35:00.440 Twitter to Elon Musk Twitter Elon Musk 01:35:00.440 --> 01:35:02.580 literally turned from like an electric car 01:35:02.580 --> 01:35:04.500 subsidy farmer to 01:35:04.500 --> 01:35:06.280 this like mega risk 01:35:06.280 --> 01:35:08.240 management you know 01:35:08.240 --> 01:35:10.280 like put out all the fires 01:35:10.280 --> 01:35:12.400 everywhere everywhere all the time and so 01:35:12.400 --> 01:35:14.460 he is like the king Bitcoin miner at the 01:35:14.460 --> 01:35:16.440 moment and the reason that he can do 01:35:16.440 --> 01:35:18.140 that is he doesn't fucking say Bitcoin 01:35:18.140 --> 01:35:20.380 because there are all these other 01:35:20.380 --> 01:35:21.760 like things that need to be done 01:35:21.760 --> 01:35:24.100 that yes that risk may 01:35:24.980 --> 01:35:25.940 may also 01:35:26.980 --> 01:35:27.940 be speculative 01:35:27.940 --> 01:35:29.900 but some of it is not going to be 01:35:29.900 --> 01:35:32.100 and if nobody can do anything 01:35:32.100 --> 01:35:33.460 then then nothing is 01:35:34.080 --> 01:35:36.240 going to get done right so he was able 01:35:36.240 --> 01:35:37.440 to sort of like create 01:35:38.260 --> 01:35:39.960 conserve as much of his own 01:35:39.960 --> 01:35:42.120 human capital that 01:35:42.120 --> 01:35:43.660 he could go put out fires and 01:35:43.660 --> 01:35:45.500 the more he kept on putting out fires 01:35:45.500 --> 01:35:47.120 the more he becomes like 01:35:47.120 --> 01:35:49.220 the emergency 01:35:49.220 --> 01:35:51.460 emergency service on the internet 01:35:51.460 --> 01:35:53.280 you know TV show that 01:35:53.280 --> 01:35:55.820 you're watching run around 01:35:55.820 --> 01:35:57.880 right but that was really like 01:35:57.880 --> 01:35:58.800 a part of my subject 01:35:58.800 --> 01:36:00.260 you're right you're right 01:36:00.260 --> 01:36:02.620 at a 01:36:03.800 --> 01:36:05.500 very hot at what 01:36:05.500 --> 01:36:07.240 Bitcoin should be doing yes you're right 01:36:07.240 --> 01:36:09.540 even if he doesn't realize this is what he's doing but the 01:36:09.540 --> 01:36:11.360 facts that he is 01:36:11.360 --> 01:36:13.380 if he doesn't like solve whatever 01:36:13.380 --> 01:36:15.220 problem like Bitcoin 01:36:15.220 --> 01:36:16.440 is putting right in front of him 01:36:16.440 --> 01:36:18.580 which is this reorganization 01:36:18.580 --> 01:36:21.020 of all of the capital and attention 01:36:21.020 --> 01:36:23.280 through computing energy and everything in the world 01:36:24.160 --> 01:36:25.480 he's just going to be 01:36:25.480 --> 01:36:27.260 like the next guy 01:36:27.260 --> 01:36:28.680 to be taken out 01:36:29.380 --> 01:36:31.100 you know and so whoever 01:36:31.100 --> 01:36:32.300 whoever can 01:36:33.160 --> 01:36:35.340 can fight that off the best 01:36:36.180 --> 01:36:37.440 it's like a difficulty 01:36:37.440 --> 01:36:39.180 adjustment Bitcoin mining is like 01:36:39.180 --> 01:36:41.440 you know if you get behind 01:36:41.440 --> 01:36:43.300 then you're out of the race like you have to 01:36:43.300 --> 01:36:45.520 you have to continuously like keep up 01:36:45.520 --> 01:36:46.720 and build momentum right 01:36:47.200 --> 01:36:48.960 and there was a really high risk 01:36:49.780 --> 01:36:51.380 around you know in like early 01:36:51.380 --> 01:36:53.520 2023 when he was coming into 01:36:53.520 --> 01:36:55.220 Twitter and it could have gone either way 01:36:55.220 --> 01:36:57.580 there's a really high risk that like Tesla could 01:36:57.580 --> 01:36:58.060 have been 01:36:59.500 --> 01:37:00.640 like Lehman Brothers 01:37:02.120 --> 01:37:02.560 right 01:37:02.560 --> 01:37:05.480 that you could have had 01:37:05.480 --> 01:37:07.280 all that collapse and that's why I think 01:37:07.280 --> 01:37:09.280 you saw a lot of the US political thing like 01:37:09.280 --> 01:37:10.620 very sort of 01:37:11.260 --> 01:37:12.980 hurriedly everybody you know like 01:37:12.980 --> 01:37:15.560 somebody tapped Mark Zuckerberg on the shoulder 01:37:15.560 --> 01:37:17.540 and said like you need to put on a gold chain 01:37:18.780 --> 01:37:19.260 yeah 01:37:19.260 --> 01:37:20.580 right and 01:37:20.580 --> 01:37:22.080 I think it's because 01:37:22.780 --> 01:37:24.280 things came that close 01:37:25.500 --> 01:37:26.800 to you know like 01:37:26.800 --> 01:37:29.400 if Elon ended up as like a Sam Bankman freed 01:37:30.000 --> 01:37:31.440 type of thing where his business 01:37:31.440 --> 01:37:32.960 is just like blown up in Boston 01:37:32.960 --> 01:37:35.420 you know one minute and it's 01:37:35.420 --> 01:37:37.260 gone the next and it's funny because 01:37:37.260 --> 01:37:39.380 with the Sam Bankman free thing like they have a lot of money there 01:37:39.380 --> 01:37:41.480 they invest in an enthropic if they didn't 01:37:41.480 --> 01:37:43.400 like succumb to that pressure at the time 01:37:43.400 --> 01:37:45.300 you know they could be you could be doing 01:37:45.300 --> 01:37:47.180 very well he would be like 01:37:47.180 --> 01:37:49.140 you know you'd have a certain Elon and Sam 01:37:49.140 --> 01:37:51.640 Sam Altman you'd have Sam Bankman freed 01:37:51.640 --> 01:37:53.260 and Sam Altman and like enthropic 01:37:53.260 --> 01:37:55.320 open AI like beef going 01:37:55.320 --> 01:37:56.060 on yeah 01:37:58.240 --> 01:37:59.440 Bitcoin is now 01:37:59.440 --> 01:38:01.460 in so what you're 01:38:01.460 --> 01:38:03.340 see I try to 01:38:03.340 --> 01:38:04.800 understand what you 01:38:04.800 --> 01:38:06.280 you guys the whole 01:38:06.700 --> 01:38:07.560 218 movement 01:38:07.560 --> 01:38:09.740 the Bitcoin Monasteries movement 01:38:10.520 --> 01:38:11.280 what you guys 01:38:12.000 --> 01:38:14.120 I constantly try to understand 01:38:14.120 --> 01:38:17.060 what you guys are saying and I think I do a good job 01:38:17.060 --> 01:38:18.200 at understand what you guys are 01:38:18.800 --> 01:38:20.360 explaining in your own words 01:38:20.360 --> 01:38:21.700 using different symbols 01:38:21.700 --> 01:38:24.140 language craft like you guys are creating 01:38:24.800 --> 01:38:26.180 a symbolic language 01:38:26.180 --> 01:38:27.780 and concepts 01:38:28.680 --> 01:38:29.320 that 01:38:30.600 --> 01:38:31.800 shine light to 01:38:33.960 --> 01:38:34.480 aspects 01:38:34.480 --> 01:38:35.940 of the world that 01:38:35.940 --> 01:38:37.820 we're in now which is one 01:38:37.820 --> 01:38:39.600 where Bitcoin 01:38:39.600 --> 01:38:41.360 is the system of government 01:38:41.360 --> 01:38:42.620 of government 01:38:44.200 --> 01:38:45.240 and it 01:38:45.800 --> 01:38:47.980 takes a moment to wrap your mind around that 01:38:49.160 --> 01:38:50.220 people sort of think 01:38:50.220 --> 01:38:52.380 that we're the only ones that doing it but that's just because 01:38:52.380 --> 01:38:53.560 we're sort of positioned 01:38:53.560 --> 01:38:56.320 in the information environment that people know about us 01:38:56.320 --> 01:38:57.740 when people are exposed to us 01:38:57.740 --> 01:39:00.140 they're probably not exposed to the other people 01:39:00.140 --> 01:39:02.080 that also do this but like I said with Elon 01:39:02.080 --> 01:39:03.660 like he's a main character 01:39:03.660 --> 01:39:06.440 he's the biggest guy who's like playing this game 01:39:06.440 --> 01:39:07.580 and he's solving 01:39:07.580 --> 01:39:09.500 the problems like 01:39:09.500 --> 01:39:11.140 of the same kind 01:39:11.140 --> 01:39:13.680 but at such a completely 01:39:13.680 --> 01:39:15.400 different scale in order of magnitude 01:39:15.400 --> 01:39:17.900 and there's like way more 01:39:17.900 --> 01:39:19.620 you know capital tied up in it 01:39:19.620 --> 01:39:19.880 right 01:39:21.100 --> 01:39:24.020 Jensen is sort of like a weird one because he was sort of like 01:39:24.020 --> 01:39:25.300 literally mining Ethereum 01:39:25.940 --> 01:39:27.920 and now he's just kind of like the new 01:39:27.920 --> 01:39:29.920 Vitalik Buterin he's like the sort of like 01:39:29.920 --> 01:39:31.120 number two next to Elon 01:39:31.120 --> 01:39:34.000 and if you realize that he's actually just Vitalik Buterin 01:39:34.760 --> 01:39:35.280 then 01:39:35.280 --> 01:39:38.300 it helps you understand like well okay this is 01:39:38.920 --> 01:39:39.960 everybody who holds 01:39:39.960 --> 01:39:42.140 Nvidia stock now they're just actually holding Ethereum 01:39:43.120 --> 01:39:44.360 Ethereum is kind of irrelevant 01:39:44.360 --> 01:39:45.720 since they turned off all their computers 01:39:46.940 --> 01:39:47.460 but 01:39:47.460 --> 01:39:50.420 there's a couple of other sort of like 01:39:51.280 --> 01:39:52.480 people that we could point to 01:39:52.480 --> 01:39:54.400 there's this guy who's like 01:39:54.400 --> 01:39:55.600 in the small block camp 01:39:55.600 --> 01:39:57.840 who's the head of innovation at Space Force 01:39:57.840 --> 01:39:59.680 called Jason Lowry and he's 01:39:59.680 --> 01:40:01.300 running a big MIT thesis 01:40:01.300 --> 01:40:03.280 on Bitcoin like 01:40:03.280 --> 01:40:04.800 different ways of thinking about Bitcoin 01:40:04.800 --> 01:40:06.960 but he's still he kind of like 01:40:06.960 --> 01:40:09.000 I don't know if this is sort of like 01:40:09.000 --> 01:40:11.500 his own struggle with like 01:40:11.500 --> 01:40:12.380 getting through the next 01:40:12.380 --> 01:40:15.220 next barrier or if it's really because 01:40:15.220 --> 01:40:16.480 like you're in 01:40:16.480 --> 01:40:18.980 you're coming at it from like an institutional 01:40:18.980 --> 01:40:21.240 like military industrial complex view 01:40:21.240 --> 01:40:23.280 but he always is like stuck at the 01:40:23.280 --> 01:40:25.080 think of Bitcoin in an analogy 01:40:25.920 --> 01:40:27.280 and there's this thing 01:40:27.280 --> 01:40:29.220 called the symbol grounding or physical 01:40:29.220 --> 01:40:30.620 symbol grounding problem 01:40:31.180 --> 01:40:33.200 and only like five years into this 01:40:33.200 --> 01:40:35.280 and like do I realize that Nick Land 01:40:35.280 --> 01:40:37.460 in 2016 on YouTube to like 20 people 01:40:37.460 --> 01:40:39.400 he was trying to like say this is 01:40:39.400 --> 01:40:41.400 really a funny clip from this guy 01:40:41.400 --> 01:40:42.780 called his handle is cunt bot 01:40:42.780 --> 01:40:45.160 and he would in 2016 when like Trump 01:40:45.160 --> 01:40:47.040 was getting elected he's like screaming 01:40:47.040 --> 01:40:49.400 Trump is trying to solve the problem of German 01:40:49.400 --> 01:40:51.380 idealism yeah yeah I saw 01:40:51.380 --> 01:40:53.480 that video yes and and I only 01:40:53.480 --> 01:40:55.500 just realized like we spent a lot of last year 01:40:55.500 --> 01:40:57.240 like so we're working on like much more like 01:40:57.240 --> 01:40:59.300 these physics models and things that are coming down the pipeline 01:40:59.300 --> 01:41:01.200 and he just realized that like this book 01:41:01.200 --> 01:41:03.100 that I bought in like 2018 or something 01:41:03.100 --> 01:41:04.520 is like literally the 01:41:05.080 --> 01:41:06.920 it's like the cons the object 01:41:06.920 --> 01:41:09.280 of the concept of the 01:41:10.200 --> 01:41:11.080 of the 01:41:11.080 --> 01:41:13.040 object of a concept 01:41:13.040 --> 01:41:14.100 of an object 01:41:15.240 --> 01:41:17.380 if that makes sense so in it he talks about 01:41:17.380 --> 01:41:19.580 symbol grounding this is critique of judgment 01:41:19.580 --> 01:41:21.220 in it he talks about simple 01:41:21.860 --> 01:41:23.360 yeah yeah manual kids 01:41:23.360 --> 01:41:25.540 yeah so in it this is a third 01:41:25.540 --> 01:41:27.780 this is like the return of the king of a manual 01:41:27.780 --> 01:41:29.860 can't accept that people don't get it when he gets 01:41:29.860 --> 01:41:30.600 the end of the book 01:41:31.940 --> 01:41:33.760 you know they should put all three in 01:41:33.760 --> 01:41:35.960 one thing in it he talks 01:41:35.960 --> 01:41:37.460 about achieving 01:41:37.460 --> 01:41:39.480 like the universal as 01:41:39.480 --> 01:41:42.060 an aesthetic so taking the universal 01:41:42.060 --> 01:41:43.600 from like a 01:41:43.600 --> 01:41:45.160 abstract idea 01:41:45.160 --> 01:41:47.440 and making and physically 01:41:47.440 --> 01:41:49.320 confronting you with it 01:41:49.320 --> 01:41:51.280 because you manage to take 01:41:51.280 --> 01:41:52.900 what was universal 01:41:53.250 --> 01:41:55.380 and embed it in something that is 01:41:55.380 --> 01:41:57.360 real and physical and so 01:41:57.360 --> 01:41:58.380 if you have the ability 01:41:58.380 --> 01:42:01.380 like the ability to do that 01:42:01.380 --> 01:42:02.560 is like proof 01:42:03.560 --> 01:42:05.220 of the consistency 01:42:05.920 --> 01:42:07.480 of how things are working 01:42:07.480 --> 01:42:09.580 and so like we didn't realize that this 01:42:09.580 --> 01:42:11.700 was what we were doing we were just drowning in this complexity 01:42:11.700 --> 01:42:13.680 of like how do we explain all these different things 01:42:13.680 --> 01:42:15.520 because we had too many you know bitcoin just like 01:42:15.520 --> 01:42:16.960 generates 1800 metaphors 01:42:17.920 --> 01:42:19.700 and until we like nailed 01:42:19.700 --> 01:42:21.780 them yeah but like for this 01:42:21.780 --> 01:42:23.660 mix of things that 01:42:23.660 --> 01:42:25.080 we trained on in our 01:42:25.080 --> 01:42:26.500 AI process 01:42:27.440 --> 01:42:29.560 our model that came out of the 01:42:29.560 --> 01:42:31.760 end of it which we really want you to buy 01:42:31.760 --> 01:42:33.620 is this thing and we can talk 01:42:33.620 --> 01:42:35.800 literally about it and it doesn't 01:42:35.800 --> 01:42:37.400 have this like infinite risk 01:42:37.400 --> 01:42:38.460 you know 01:42:39.560 --> 01:42:41.760 exposure that comes out right 01:42:42.600 --> 01:42:43.800 and you know Elon 01:42:43.800 --> 01:42:45.760 he's been able to turn 01:42:45.760 --> 01:42:47.620 AI from like a research 01:42:47.620 --> 01:42:48.240 thing 01:42:49.540 --> 01:42:51.160 with PhDs and algorithms 01:42:51.160 --> 01:42:53.040 and like Google Cloud hidden 01:42:53.040 --> 01:42:55.840 mysterious stuff to like literally turn 01:42:55.840 --> 01:42:57.840 the whole Kuiper Cloud virtual machine 01:42:57.840 --> 01:42:59.900 industry like great we don't need anything 01:42:59.900 --> 01:43:01.740 from Intel anymore we just want 01:43:01.740 --> 01:43:03.760 one really really really big building that uses lots 01:43:03.760 --> 01:43:05.940 of megawatts right and that's 01:43:05.940 --> 01:43:07.740 the same that's why I mean by like this is what 01:43:07.740 --> 01:43:09.660 bitcoin is doing because this 01:43:09.660 --> 01:43:11.340 exact same type of facility 01:43:11.340 --> 01:43:13.940 that is the state of the art in bitcoin miners 01:43:13.940 --> 01:43:15.540 is now what 01:43:15.540 --> 01:43:17.500 the AI is literally the same companies 01:43:17.500 --> 01:43:18.920 that were like to build the big 01:43:18.920 --> 01:43:20.580 Texas Bitcoin mining facilities 01:43:21.220 --> 01:43:21.940 now build 01:43:21.940 --> 01:43:25.180 like building the open AI one at least 01:43:25.180 --> 01:43:26.900 in Texas 01:43:26.900 --> 01:43:29.760 for Sam right so that is 01:43:29.760 --> 01:43:31.400 at least from sort of like the 01:43:31.400 --> 01:43:33.460 end of bitcoin subsidies 01:43:34.360 --> 01:43:35.380 is the market 01:43:35.380 --> 01:43:37.380 that we're in at the moment that I was calling 01:43:37.380 --> 01:43:39.340 like computational data markets to start thinking 01:43:39.340 --> 01:43:41.660 about the real value that's being provided 01:43:41.660 --> 01:43:42.440 by the computers 01:43:44.000 --> 01:43:44.520 but 01:43:45.080 --> 01:43:47.160 where that was sort of like the 2020 01:43:48.040 --> 01:43:49.440 version of it and we're now 01:43:49.440 --> 01:43:51.200 moving into this like next phase 01:43:51.200 --> 01:43:53.680 where I used to sort of like 01:43:53.680 --> 01:43:54.960 the word I 01:43:54.960 --> 01:43:57.360 one of my words for 2028 01:43:57.360 --> 01:43:59.420 in 2020 was information 01:43:59.420 --> 01:44:01.220 creation so 01:44:01.220 --> 01:44:03.460 it's like bit and coin 01:44:03.460 --> 01:44:05.500 so it's like an ability to 01:44:05.500 --> 01:44:07.620 to you can use this thing to create 01:44:07.620 --> 01:44:09.460 information because you can coin bits rather 01:44:09.460 --> 01:44:10.620 with it right 01:44:12.140 --> 01:44:13.620 and the other interesting 01:44:13.620 --> 01:44:15.760 word by the way and coin is a coincidence 01:44:15.760 --> 01:44:17.380 and it comes from the same etymology 01:44:18.420 --> 01:44:19.300 but in 01:44:19.300 --> 01:44:21.640 in my view like bitcoin is sort of like you know 01:44:21.640 --> 01:44:23.660 when you have the four things are like 01:44:23.660 --> 01:44:25.740 the good times are the bad times and the hard times 01:44:25.740 --> 01:44:27.700 and stuff and the weak men 01:44:27.700 --> 01:44:29.840 is that bitcoin has a cycle 01:44:29.840 --> 01:44:30.440 that 01:44:32.660 --> 01:44:33.540 once every 01:44:33.540 --> 01:44:34.460 12 years 01:44:35.340 --> 01:44:36.520 you get all 01:44:36.520 --> 01:44:38.560 three properties of money together 01:44:38.560 --> 01:44:40.600 so you get like a golden era 01:44:40.600 --> 01:44:42.380 and then after that golden 01:44:42.380 --> 01:44:44.800 era you have to go back and like recharge 01:44:44.800 --> 01:44:46.180 for like nine years 01:44:46.180 --> 01:44:47.420 oh sorry sorry 01:44:47.420 --> 01:44:50.720 sorry four out of every 16 years 01:44:50.720 --> 01:44:51.600 so in a halving cycle 01:44:52.240 --> 01:44:54.380 per halving cycle you have 01:44:55.180 --> 01:44:56.180 one is 01:44:56.180 --> 01:44:58.460 my views like was this information creation 01:44:58.460 --> 01:45:00.460 thing and now like 01:45:00.460 --> 01:45:02.680 after we spent four years of figuring out how to do 01:45:02.680 --> 01:45:04.540 that then like Elon Musk and everybody 01:45:04.540 --> 01:45:06.700 they're like we have to go figure 01:45:06.700 --> 01:45:08.720 out how to computationally generate data because 01:45:08.720 --> 01:45:10.680 we're out of it we already collected up 01:45:10.680 --> 01:45:12.820 all of the free data that everybody left on the internet 01:45:12.820 --> 01:45:14.640 does anybody have any more free gold bars 01:45:14.640 --> 01:45:16.420 that I can collect no 01:45:16.420 --> 01:45:18.100 you already collected all of them 01:45:18.560 --> 01:45:20.740 right and we 01:45:20.740 --> 01:45:22.720 after the halving last 01:45:22.720 --> 01:45:23.100 year 01:45:24.540 --> 01:45:26.620 we sort of like although 01:45:26.620 --> 01:45:28.820 although we had the capacity for that 01:45:28.820 --> 01:45:30.760 that was no longer like the central focus 01:45:30.760 --> 01:45:32.260 the central focus is now on 01:45:32.260 --> 01:45:34.760 how do we take that capacity that was developed 01:45:34.760 --> 01:45:36.560 in research and development and this is true as well 01:45:36.560 --> 01:45:38.540 for the AI people you can look at 01:45:38.540 --> 01:45:40.480 what the AI guys are doing and the 01:45:40.480 --> 01:45:42.400 priorities in the AI market 01:45:42.940 --> 01:45:44.120 has moved from 01:45:44.580 --> 01:45:46.540 how do we do the research 01:45:46.540 --> 01:45:48.800 and development to invent the ways of doing things 01:45:48.800 --> 01:45:50.800 that we don't know that we need to be doing it 01:45:50.800 --> 01:45:52.580 they did that in the last cycle 01:45:52.580 --> 01:45:54.760 and that led to chat GPT and transformers 01:45:55.660 --> 01:45:56.700 in this cycle 01:45:56.700 --> 01:45:58.360 it's all about mass production 01:45:58.360 --> 01:46:00.380 it's who can figure out 01:46:00.380 --> 01:46:02.340 how to take that 01:46:02.340 --> 01:46:04.560 and you see like NVIDIA announcing their sort of 01:46:04.560 --> 01:46:05.520 like Mac mini thing 01:46:06.220 --> 01:46:07.540 Apple actually make an AI 01:46:07.540 --> 01:46:09.840 Mac Studio that costs a huge amount of money 01:46:09.840 --> 01:46:11.560 that has 500 gigs of RAM in it now 01:46:11.560 --> 01:46:12.440 so like 01:46:13.580 --> 01:46:15.120 it's much easier when you think about 01:46:15.120 --> 01:46:17.120 yeah there's Bitcoin money is paying for 01:46:17.120 --> 01:46:19.480 can you max out the RAM for what's physically possible 01:46:19.480 --> 01:46:21.460 beyond what's configured on the website that exists 01:46:23.260 --> 01:46:23.740 right 01:46:23.740 --> 01:46:26.600 so we're moving into this mass production 01:46:26.600 --> 01:46:28.820 phase and you can look 01:46:28.820 --> 01:46:30.280 at things in previous 01:46:30.280 --> 01:46:32.680 areas along these cycles too 01:46:32.680 --> 01:46:34.780 in my view but it becomes more 01:46:34.780 --> 01:46:36.980 distinct over time 01:46:36.980 --> 01:46:39.020 as we're moving forward and moving off subsidies 01:46:40.740 --> 01:46:42.060 and then after 01:46:42.440 --> 01:46:44.960 so it's like information creation 01:46:44.960 --> 01:46:46.960 mass production 01:46:46.960 --> 01:46:48.700 and literally AI 01:46:48.700 --> 01:46:50.760 is turning from some mystical thing in the internet 01:46:50.760 --> 01:46:52.640 to like the biggest fucking 01:46:52.640 --> 01:46:54.380 most expensive building that you can imagine 01:46:54.380 --> 01:46:56.220 in the next phase 01:46:56.220 --> 01:46:57.880 it's going to be energy generation 01:46:59.500 --> 01:47:00.360 and so we'll 01:47:00.360 --> 01:47:02.340 figure it out, Elon will figure out how you 01:47:02.340 --> 01:47:04.420 design the AI data center 01:47:04.420 --> 01:47:06.340 and it will be a product size 01:47:06.340 --> 01:47:08.100 reference commodity thing 01:47:08.100 --> 01:47:10.120 that like hey everybody on the planet 01:47:10.120 --> 01:47:12.400 can you go and build your best state of the art 01:47:12.400 --> 01:47:13.540 AI data center please 01:47:14.620 --> 01:47:16.020 and I'm not as a business 01:47:16.020 --> 01:47:16.380 isn't that Bitcoin 01:47:18.120 --> 01:47:20.000 but Bitcoin did it speculatively 01:47:20.000 --> 01:47:21.300 so they built the model 01:47:21.300 --> 01:47:23.720 but it's not something that's actually capable 01:47:23.720 --> 01:47:24.920 of solving somebody's problem 01:47:24.920 --> 01:47:26.560 all it is like at 01:47:26.560 --> 01:47:29.080 the state of the art, the most advanced 01:47:29.080 --> 01:47:31.000 strategy of any of the Bitcoin miners 01:47:31.000 --> 01:47:33.180 was that they just figured out how to 01:47:33.180 --> 01:47:34.960 obviously build the site 01:47:35.580 --> 01:47:37.400 so they have gigawatt sites 01:47:37.400 --> 01:47:39.060 that exist that mind Bitcoin 01:47:39.060 --> 01:47:41.060 that the AI people are not at that level yet 01:47:41.060 --> 01:47:42.580 that's very prized real estate 01:47:42.580 --> 01:47:44.860 but what they figured out how to do is what's called 01:47:46.160 --> 01:47:47.820 become a large flexible load 01:47:47.820 --> 01:47:49.780 so any data center 01:47:49.780 --> 01:47:52.320 including all these AI training things 01:47:52.320 --> 01:47:53.640 and all these other hyperscale stuff 01:47:53.640 --> 01:47:55.400 they all operate on like 01:47:55.400 --> 01:47:59.360 100% like 99.99999% 01:47:59.360 --> 01:48:00.200 uptime and availability 01:48:00.200 --> 01:48:02.160 and the issue is that 01:48:02.160 --> 01:48:03.200 that model 01:48:03.860 --> 01:48:06.140 and all the overheads and redundancy 01:48:06.140 --> 01:48:08.100 and waste and everything that goes into 01:48:08.100 --> 01:48:10.060 like making them but there's an azure data center 01:48:10.060 --> 01:48:12.300 like three minutes drive from me 01:48:12.300 --> 01:48:13.720 up here in New Zealand like 01:48:13.720 --> 01:48:15.840 on the hill and they started building that in 01:48:15.840 --> 01:48:17.890 2020 and part of the thing that led us to 01:48:17.890 --> 01:48:18.610 Mac mini was like 01:48:19.330 --> 01:48:21.250 okay like they're filling that with Intel chip 01:48:21.250 --> 01:48:23.630 so it's already redundant 01:48:23.630 --> 01:48:25.050 they haven't finished building it yet 01:48:25.710 --> 01:48:26.750 and that was part of what 01:48:26.750 --> 01:48:28.810 what drove me to get on the Mac mini 01:48:28.810 --> 01:48:31.270 can you do an A B test in Silverdale in New Zealand 01:48:31.790 --> 01:48:33.610 of like yeah if there's a guy 01:48:33.610 --> 01:48:35.870 with a bunch of Mac minis hooked up 01:48:36.450 --> 01:48:37.950 to a residential 01:48:38.690 --> 01:48:39.650 consumer internet 01:48:39.650 --> 01:48:40.930 and electricity supply 01:48:42.590 --> 01:48:44.290 down by the tradies 01:48:44.290 --> 01:48:45.310 like in the warehouses 01:48:45.310 --> 01:48:46.910 like three minutes drive 01:48:46.910 --> 01:48:48.990 from the nice pristine expensive 01:48:48.990 --> 01:48:51.550 premium overpriced Microsoft data center 01:48:51.550 --> 01:48:53.590 real estate who can actually 01:48:53.590 --> 01:48:54.450 like you know compute 01:48:55.170 --> 01:48:56.550 more value out of it 01:48:57.170 --> 01:48:58.730 so in this so these 01:48:58.730 --> 01:49:01.310 you only have these one reference like 01:49:01.310 --> 01:49:03.310 state of the art type of data centers 01:49:03.310 --> 01:49:05.450 at the moment but I also liken it 01:49:05.450 --> 01:49:07.430 to the America's Cup racing where they like try 01:49:07.430 --> 01:49:08.970 to build the best yacht in the world 01:49:08.970 --> 01:49:10.870 and by the way that's like the oldest 01:49:10.870 --> 01:49:13.190 that's like one of these things like the longest 01:49:13.190 --> 01:49:15.130 chain America's Cup is like 01:49:15.130 --> 01:49:17.390 the oldest sporting competition 01:49:17.390 --> 01:49:18.170 in existence 01:49:18.730 --> 01:49:21.010 goes back to like the World's Fair in London 01:49:21.010 --> 01:49:22.890 and like 1890 or something 01:49:22.890 --> 01:49:25.230 or 1860 one of the you know 18 something 01:49:25.870 --> 01:49:27.190 and New Zealand like 01:49:27.770 --> 01:49:29.450 is very famous for having you know 01:49:29.450 --> 01:49:30.330 like you know 01:49:31.450 --> 01:49:33.110 we made it we made 01:49:33.110 --> 01:49:34.770 our competition so like 01:49:34.770 --> 01:49:36.610 we you know we won it every year 01:49:36.610 --> 01:49:38.950 I didn't used to be to be that way 01:49:39.670 --> 01:49:41.290 and but it's a design competition 01:49:41.290 --> 01:49:43.450 so you get the best sailors in the world and they're trying to 01:49:43.450 --> 01:49:45.270 bet just invent the new they have 01:49:45.270 --> 01:49:47.130 a reference class so they have some rules 01:49:47.130 --> 01:49:48.790 around this is the framing of the competition 01:49:49.290 --> 01:49:51.670 and when I say like yeah we weren't making language models 01:49:51.670 --> 01:49:53.290 that mean where we was like we showed 01:49:53.290 --> 01:49:55.270 up to the it's like everybody was 01:49:55.270 --> 01:49:57.150 like yeah guys like shop and Athens 01:49:58.190 --> 01:49:59.510 at like 12 o'clock 01:49:59.510 --> 01:50:01.090 like on Tuesday you know 01:50:01.090 --> 01:50:03.490 like started next month and then we go to like Athens 01:50:03.490 --> 01:50:05.390 Texas instead of Athens 01:50:05.390 --> 01:50:07.190 in Greece and we like fuck 01:50:07.190 --> 01:50:09.070 we should probably should have known that like they meant 01:50:09.070 --> 01:50:11.130 the one over there right so the shell 01:50:11.130 --> 01:50:13.290 it's the shelling point thing they always talk about the Eiffel tower 01:50:13.290 --> 01:50:13.630 with that 01:50:15.250 --> 01:50:17.210 and that there's so there's these really 01:50:17.210 --> 01:50:19.110 really really expensive you're taking 01:50:19.110 --> 01:50:21.070 like the all the speculative 01:50:21.070 --> 01:50:23.250 capital on the market and they're 01:50:23.250 --> 01:50:25.070 pulling all this risk and like 01:50:25.070 --> 01:50:27.030 a very small number of very 01:50:27.030 --> 01:50:29.150 specific sites in 01:50:29.150 --> 01:50:30.830 Texas and Tennessee obviously 01:50:30.830 --> 01:50:32.910 where XAI have their facility 01:50:32.910 --> 01:50:35.170 and they're growing that and one being 01:50:35.170 --> 01:50:37.370 built by Metta and in Louisiana 01:50:37.370 --> 01:50:39.350 right and so for now 01:50:39.350 --> 01:50:41.550 the the Texas the expanded 01:50:41.550 --> 01:50:43.110 Texas triangle essentially 01:50:43.110 --> 01:50:45.550 that is the entirety of 01:50:45.550 --> 01:50:47.410 of the market and look for a 01:50:47.410 --> 01:50:49.430 time that like Bitcoin mining 01:50:49.430 --> 01:50:51.230 might move to Japan and that the Japanese 01:50:51.230 --> 01:50:53.330 might do that but the Japanese just took 01:50:53.330 --> 01:50:55.330 all their speculative money and they just put it back into 01:50:55.330 --> 01:50:57.430 into Texas again and they did that 01:50:57.430 --> 01:50:59.030 with the Bitcoin miners that 01:50:59.030 --> 01:51:01.590 they're in Texas you know from 01:51:01.590 --> 01:51:03.750 from the last couple of cycles 01:51:03.750 --> 01:51:04.850 yeah 01:51:04.850 --> 01:51:06.270 it is well right 01:51:06.850 --> 01:51:09.090 so anyway the end conclusion is that 01:51:09.770 --> 01:51:11.110 the market at the moment 01:51:11.110 --> 01:51:12.790 is speculative but it's like 01:51:12.790 --> 01:51:14.830 applied speculative it's like hey 01:51:14.830 --> 01:51:16.770 we're going to have a huge massive take 01:51:16.770 --> 01:51:18.450 all the extra dollars 01:51:18.450 --> 01:51:21.190 that you know the United States 01:51:21.190 --> 01:51:22.770 is going to get destroyed by global 01:51:22.770 --> 01:51:24.910 global capital if people on the 01:51:24.910 --> 01:51:26.570 internet you know how to out compete us 01:51:26.570 --> 01:51:28.830 great we're going to print every dollar in 01:51:28.830 --> 01:51:30.990 existence now we printed 01:51:30.990 --> 01:51:33.110 all the dollars so there's no extra 01:51:33.110 --> 01:51:34.910 the dollar is hard money again 01:51:34.910 --> 01:51:37.130 right only if you know 01:51:37.130 --> 01:51:39.310 how to get on to 01:51:39.310 --> 01:51:41.010 like the state of the art 01:51:41.010 --> 01:51:43.150 America's Cup sale boat manufacturing 01:51:43.150 --> 01:51:44.870 team if you know how to build the better 01:51:44.870 --> 01:51:46.330 thing that's going to win us the race 01:51:46.990 --> 01:51:49.010 then you get permission to come in and like 01:51:49.010 --> 01:51:50.670 spend these extremely 01:51:50.670 --> 01:51:51.650 you know 01:51:53.290 --> 01:51:55.290 because they are values now right so 01:51:55.290 --> 01:51:56.850 they do know what what 01:51:56.850 --> 01:51:58.210 AI is worth because 01:51:58.810 --> 01:52:00.950 at least like to the point 01:52:00.950 --> 01:52:02.890 that it's worth defending the dollar 01:52:02.890 --> 01:52:04.930 hedge money and all this and reshoring 01:52:04.930 --> 01:52:06.870 the American industry and everything it's worth 01:52:06.870 --> 01:52:08.370 printing every single dollar that 01:52:08.790 --> 01:52:10.410 is possible on it right 01:52:12.150 --> 01:52:12.710 and 01:52:12.710 --> 01:52:15.090 because otherwise that capital is just going to get 01:52:15.090 --> 01:52:17.010 printed somewhere else and there's a 01:52:17.010 --> 01:52:17.790 there's a really famous 01:52:17.790 --> 01:52:20.570 like I think BIS or Bank of England 01:52:20.570 --> 01:52:22.890 Bank of England report from like the 01:52:22.890 --> 01:52:24.690 financial crisis where they talk about our 01:52:24.690 --> 01:52:26.930 when private banks lend money 01:52:26.930 --> 01:52:28.210 that they are creating 01:52:28.210 --> 01:52:29.390 they are creating 01:52:30.270 --> 01:52:32.190 money right like so the modern fiat 01:52:32.190 --> 01:52:34.250 economy is a huge free market 01:52:34.250 --> 01:52:36.290 the the the meme of like the Federal 01:52:36.290 --> 01:52:38.330 Reserve is the big evil thing 01:52:38.330 --> 01:52:40.030 and like the central bank of New Zealand and 01:52:40.030 --> 01:52:42.070 interest rates or whatever like they don't 01:52:42.070 --> 01:52:43.770 they don't they don't print money like the 01:52:43.770 --> 01:52:45.790 the Bank of England had to bail out 01:52:45.790 --> 01:52:48.110 all of the pension funds in 2022 01:52:48.110 --> 01:52:50.190 like a week after 10 01:52:50.190 --> 01:52:51.910 days or something after the Ethereum 01:52:51.910 --> 01:52:54.290 GPUs turned off because every pension 01:52:54.290 --> 01:52:56.110 fund in England was like 01:52:56.110 --> 01:52:58.270 using GPUs to yield farm 01:52:58.270 --> 01:53:00.150 with government bonds 01:53:00.150 --> 01:53:01.570 like stablecoins and the 01:53:02.150 --> 01:53:04.330 Liz trust like 01:53:04.330 --> 01:53:06.150 you know came out and like did the budget 01:53:06.150 --> 01:53:08.310 and they're like fuck we didn't think she 01:53:08.310 --> 01:53:09.670 would go this far and it like 01:53:09.670 --> 01:53:11.950 made it took made a more bankrupt 01:53:11.950 --> 01:53:14.130 and I had like a meeting set up behind the Bank of England 01:53:14.130 --> 01:53:16.210 that got cancelled like that very day and 01:53:16.210 --> 01:53:18.550 and uh yeah they had to bail out 01:53:18.550 --> 01:53:20.330 it was like 65 billion pounds 01:53:20.330 --> 01:53:22.290 or something which seems like small money now 01:53:22.290 --> 01:53:24.330 right so so they do 01:53:24.330 --> 01:53:26.470 at the moment like there is this understanding 01:53:26.470 --> 01:53:27.970 at the at the center of the market 01:53:28.930 --> 01:53:30.630 that like we have to 01:53:30.630 --> 01:53:32.230 we have to say the 01:53:32.230 --> 01:53:34.330 number and like Sam Altman you know he's a bit 01:53:34.330 --> 01:53:36.490 volatile so he'll go to the Saudis and say 7 trillion 01:53:36.490 --> 01:53:37.890 and it's like Sam 01:53:42.870 --> 01:53:44.430 okay it's got to be more than 01:53:44.430 --> 01:53:46.950 5 billion but like 7 trillion is a bit much 01:53:46.950 --> 01:53:48.590 and like building 49 fads 01:53:48.590 --> 01:53:50.450 TSMC fads like come back 01:53:50.450 --> 01:53:52.010 with something a bit more and so they like 01:53:52.010 --> 01:53:53.410 must see Yoshi's son he's like 01:53:55.030 --> 01:53:55.470 500 01:53:56.010 --> 01:53:57.910 billion I can't do a Japanese accent but 01:53:57.910 --> 01:53:59.590 you know he's like Mr. Trump 01:54:00.150 --> 01:54:01.930 I can't I can't do it but he 01:54:01.930 --> 01:54:04.070 you know he's like I found I found 500 01:54:04.070 --> 01:54:06.130 you told me to go back and find 200 01:54:06.130 --> 01:54:07.750 he was like hey buddy 01:54:08.830 --> 01:54:10.050 he turned that 100 01:54:10.050 --> 01:54:11.970 into 200 for me by next week please 01:54:11.970 --> 01:54:13.210 and he like comes back and he's like 01:54:14.230 --> 01:54:14.670 500 01:54:15.510 --> 01:54:16.910 right and he has like Sam 01:54:16.910 --> 01:54:19.790 Sam Altman and 01:54:19.790 --> 01:54:21.930 Larry Ellison and Larry Ellison by the way 01:54:21.930 --> 01:54:23.710 he's like very famous because he put lots 01:54:23.710 --> 01:54:24.690 money in the America's Cup 01:54:25.610 --> 01:54:27.210 so he's used to these kind of 01:54:27.690 --> 01:54:29.170 competitions as well and there's ever Sam 01:54:29.170 --> 01:54:31.770 and then and I always find it's funny it's like Sam 01:54:31.770 --> 01:54:33.550 Samma like the handle of 01:54:33.550 --> 01:54:35.810 Sam Altman it's sort of like the same 01:54:35.810 --> 01:54:37.470 name as a Masa 01:54:38.170 --> 01:54:39.290 you know it's like 01:54:39.790 --> 01:54:41.230 Master Yoshi son it's like the 01:54:42.450 --> 01:54:43.770 Ponzi schemes like 01:54:43.770 --> 01:54:45.310 they're caught up in exactly the same game 01:54:45.310 --> 01:54:46.890 so when it's you ever 01:54:46.890 --> 01:54:48.810 remember the meme of like Calvin 01:54:48.810 --> 01:54:49.570 air like 01:54:50.590 --> 01:54:52.170 shaking hands with Calvin air 01:54:52.750 --> 01:54:54.790 so basically it's the same thing that's happening 01:54:54.790 --> 01:54:56.290 it's like Elon 01:54:56.770 --> 01:54:58.630 and Jensen 01:54:58.630 --> 01:55:00.830 they're literally both in the Nvidia business except 01:55:00.830 --> 01:55:02.870 one is just like chief customer and one is 01:55:02.870 --> 01:55:04.890 chief you know he said it 01:55:04.890 --> 01:55:06.670 yesterday he's like chief revenue destroyer 01:55:06.670 --> 01:55:08.230 like there's just the 01:55:08.730 --> 01:55:10.890 buyer and the seller there's the supply and the demand 01:55:10.890 --> 01:55:12.550 and it's like supply and demand 01:55:12.550 --> 01:55:14.890 you know doing this in the market and they're like 01:55:14.890 --> 01:55:16.930 great like we've so we just solved the market 01:55:16.930 --> 01:55:18.950 by getting these two people in the room that are 01:55:18.950 --> 01:55:20.930 like the top and they just you know check 01:55:20.930 --> 01:55:22.670 check their hands together and 01:55:22.670 --> 01:55:25.090 very similar thing with like and then let's 01:55:25.090 --> 01:55:26.830 take all of the competitors to these people 01:55:26.830 --> 01:55:28.950 and then like put them together right and then 01:55:28.950 --> 01:55:30.290 like shake hands and like well 01:55:30.990 --> 01:55:33.030 whatever my bigger is the biggest number 01:55:33.030 --> 01:55:34.490 that you can come up with in your spreadsheet 01:55:34.490 --> 01:55:36.950 master for like in in degrees of like 01:55:37.990 --> 01:55:38.870 derivatives amplification 01:55:38.870 --> 01:55:40.910 on like how many floating point operations 01:55:40.910 --> 01:55:41.950 that you can do in Texas 01:55:43.230 --> 01:55:43.670 then 01:55:44.650 --> 01:55:46.170 then like just tell us that 01:55:46.170 --> 01:55:47.990 number and over over 01:55:47.990 --> 01:55:49.950 you know we want it to last till the end of the Trump 01:55:49.950 --> 01:55:52.230 admin tell us like the biggest 01:55:52.230 --> 01:55:54.030 number that that you see on your 01:55:54.030 --> 01:55:56.230 spreadsheet from from now 01:55:56.230 --> 01:55:57.650 amplified to 01:55:58.270 --> 01:55:59.750 based on everything you know 01:55:59.750 --> 01:56:02.090 till 2028 which is next 01:56:02.090 --> 01:56:03.010 halving by the way 01:56:03.790 --> 01:56:05.890 and then we'll just go put and and literally 01:56:05.890 --> 01:56:08.090 like his spreadsheet I think it's just sitting 01:56:08.090 --> 01:56:09.970 there updating you know like 01:56:09.970 --> 01:56:11.970 one it says a hundred and then he 01:56:11.970 --> 01:56:13.570 goes away for a week and he comes back and 01:56:13.570 --> 01:56:15.970 and Trump has the same spreadsheet probably 01:56:15.970 --> 01:56:17.890 the same models and then the one 01:56:17.890 --> 01:56:18.870 says 200 he's like 01:56:19.550 --> 01:56:21.130 you better not be saying 100 01:56:22.050 --> 01:56:23.350 and then he's like 01:56:24.710 --> 01:56:25.950 and then he comes back and then 01:56:25.950 --> 01:56:27.610 the spreadsheet is updated and it's like 01:56:27.610 --> 01:56:29.270 you need to go and say 500 01:56:30.010 --> 01:56:31.710 right and that's what I was meaning about 01:56:31.710 --> 01:56:33.750 COVID we're like there's these numbers that 01:56:33.750 --> 01:56:35.450 grow and these reflexive like 01:56:35.970 --> 01:56:36.210 perception 01:56:37.130 --> 01:56:38.570 off of things right 01:56:40.690 --> 01:56:42.050 is entirely likely 01:56:43.070 --> 01:56:44.350 that well behind 01:56:44.350 --> 01:56:46.250 the scenes a lot of people are really just like 01:56:46.250 --> 01:56:48.310 looking at this as a stable coin sort of flat line 01:56:48.310 --> 01:56:50.250 thing like well we only have so 01:56:50.250 --> 01:56:52.270 many we we have certain fabs we 01:56:52.270 --> 01:56:54.270 have certain amount of capacity we have certain amount 01:56:54.270 --> 01:56:56.210 of chips that come down the line so really 01:56:56.210 --> 01:56:58.210 nothing is really changing there like yes you 01:56:58.210 --> 01:57:00.350 may have some like shrinking miniaturization 01:57:00.350 --> 01:57:01.870 that happens on a predictable basis 01:57:03.150 --> 01:57:04.030 but the 01:57:04.950 --> 01:57:06.490 if that resource 01:57:06.490 --> 01:57:08.370 like isn't well managed 01:57:09.790 --> 01:57:10.270 then 01:57:10.270 --> 01:57:12.290 it could just get you know torn up 01:57:12.290 --> 01:57:13.810 five different ways and then like 01:57:13.810 --> 01:57:15.630 somebody bombs Taiwan and 01:57:15.630 --> 01:57:18.230 and nobody can get any chips anymore and so there is 01:57:18.230 --> 01:57:20.070 all these like speculative like risk 01:57:20.070 --> 01:57:21.850 scenarios that 01:57:21.850 --> 01:57:23.750 could be much worse than 01:57:23.750 --> 01:57:26.030 whatever big number that people are coming 01:57:26.030 --> 01:57:27.910 coming up with in the market at the moment so that's 01:57:27.910 --> 01:57:30.070 that's sort of what's interesting about where 01:57:30.070 --> 01:57:31.270 we are in 2025 01:57:31.790 --> 01:57:33.170 versus in 2020 because in 01:57:33.170 --> 01:57:35.330 2020 this felt like 01:57:36.470 --> 01:57:37.710 we need to go right now 01:57:37.710 --> 01:57:39.230 and like try to figure out how we put a price on 01:57:39.230 --> 01:57:41.230 information because it's going to blow up right 01:57:42.330 --> 01:57:43.210 and like 01:57:43.790 --> 01:57:45.390 you know two months after 01:57:45.390 --> 01:57:46.950 that it was like all 01:57:46.950 --> 01:57:49.410 world travel is shut down nobody go anywhere 01:57:49.410 --> 01:57:51.250 or do anything we'll say you know say 01:57:51.250 --> 01:57:52.630 anything to anybody and cover your face 01:57:53.890 --> 01:57:54.770 right because 01:57:54.770 --> 01:57:57.490 in my view there was that much risk 01:57:57.490 --> 01:57:58.070 in the 01:57:58.070 --> 01:58:00.570 in the economy at the time 01:58:00.570 --> 01:58:02.110 and I really felt that and like you know that 01:58:02.110 --> 01:58:03.230 pushed me to 01:58:03.230 --> 01:58:04.730 you know 01:58:05.590 --> 01:58:07.470 get into this 01:58:07.870 --> 01:58:10.190 but what you can see now is that there is a 01:58:10.190 --> 01:58:11.410 price on 01:58:12.070 --> 01:58:13.930 information at least 01:58:13.930 --> 01:58:16.090 at the Wall Street level 01:58:16.090 --> 01:58:18.010 and that well nobody 01:58:18.010 --> 01:58:20.310 is doing a trillion dollars for Sam Altman 01:58:20.310 --> 01:58:22.070 yet they're actually like quite happy to 01:58:22.070 --> 01:58:23.830 have figured out the number 01:58:23.830 --> 01:58:26.010 that we can lock in 01:58:26.010 --> 01:58:28.450 for the next four years 01:58:28.450 --> 01:58:30.290 roughly and then hey Sam 01:58:30.290 --> 01:58:31.910 you better like figure out how to 01:58:31.910 --> 01:58:34.350 pay us back our hundreds of billions of dollars 01:58:34.350 --> 01:58:35.690 you know by 01:58:35.690 --> 01:58:37.350 2029 or 01:58:37.970 --> 01:58:39.790 you know you're going to look a little bit like that 01:58:39.790 --> 01:58:41.310 Sam Bankman freed guy over there 01:58:42.510 --> 01:58:43.770 yeah okay so 01:58:43.770 --> 01:58:46.270 the question is like can that be brought 01:58:46.270 --> 01:58:47.630 down to 01:58:47.630 --> 01:58:48.630 the consumer 01:58:49.910 --> 01:58:52.130 and Bitcoin in a way it was 01:58:52.130 --> 01:58:52.970 that in 01:58:52.970 --> 01:58:54.870 in early 2020's 01:58:54.870 --> 01:58:56.810 but it was that speculative 01:58:56.810 --> 01:58:58.610 so it was the sort of like 01:58:58.610 --> 01:59:00.750 market printing its own money 01:59:00.750 --> 01:59:02.750 to incentivize like 01:59:02.750 --> 01:59:04.610 this transition and there's 01:59:04.610 --> 01:59:06.890 all this like legacy infrastructure 01:59:06.890 --> 01:59:08.850 that it like really wants like the 01:59:08.850 --> 01:59:11.150 US government like or you know 01:59:11.150 --> 01:59:12.930 whatever institutions and things 01:59:12.930 --> 01:59:14.990 that exist in the market to provide them a buffer 01:59:14.990 --> 01:59:17.010 to like move from 01:59:17.950 --> 01:59:19.090 this world in which 01:59:19.090 --> 01:59:21.050 they're vulnerable to GPUs 01:59:21.050 --> 01:59:22.370 just coming in and like you know 01:59:22.890 --> 01:59:24.030 devouring all of their 01:59:25.010 --> 01:59:26.470 infrastructure right like 01:59:27.190 --> 01:59:29.130 like I went to a thing in town 01:59:29.130 --> 01:59:30.910 the other day and there's 01:59:30.910 --> 01:59:33.170 some guy who's like 01:59:33.910 --> 01:59:35.270 tapping me on the shoulder 01:59:35.270 --> 01:59:36.810 being like hey you look like a potential 01:59:36.810 --> 01:59:38.410 like startup founder and he's like 01:59:38.410 --> 01:59:39.890 just got a job at the 01:59:40.790 --> 01:59:42.550 venture capital firm in town 01:59:42.550 --> 01:59:44.550 he's been doing it for three months or something 01:59:44.550 --> 01:59:46.850 and I just sort of and I like ask him 01:59:46.850 --> 01:59:48.950 you know so just you just graduate 01:59:48.950 --> 01:59:50.890 what did you study and he said he was 01:59:50.890 --> 01:59:52.810 training to be a doctor so great 01:59:52.810 --> 01:59:54.710 like some 01:59:55.150 --> 01:59:56.750 you know like the 01:59:56.750 --> 01:59:58.630 society has like invested 01:59:58.630 --> 02:00:00.250 in and like 02:00:00.250 --> 02:00:02.930 some guy to get all the way like deep into 02:00:02.930 --> 02:00:04.990 medical school and then right at the 02:00:04.990 --> 02:00:06.790 front line where he's about to start his career 02:00:06.790 --> 02:00:08.370 where he's actually gonna like help a person 02:00:08.830 --> 02:00:10.890 you know he's like actually I'll just go like 02:00:10.890 --> 02:00:12.970 LARP as a venture capitalist and I was like 02:00:12.970 --> 02:00:14.690 well are you on Twitter you know like 02:00:14.690 --> 02:00:16.930 and he doesn't even use Twitter so 02:00:16.930 --> 02:00:19.170 he doesn't even know how to like do the job of a venture capitalist 02:00:19.170 --> 02:00:20.610 so he's not even doing that 02:00:20.610 --> 02:00:22.290 and it's the easiest job in the world because 02:00:22.290 --> 02:00:24.650 at the moment the entire venture capital like 02:00:24.650 --> 02:00:26.850 industry is just Nvidia all you have to 02:00:26.850 --> 02:00:28.630 do is like buy Nvidia stock and then like 02:00:28.630 --> 02:00:30.970 great you've like done your job like go around 02:00:30.970 --> 02:00:32.870 and like find the Nvidia project 02:00:32.870 --> 02:00:33.590 that you want to 02:00:35.990 --> 02:00:37.790 play around with right 02:00:37.790 --> 02:00:39.150 but New Zealand is like 02:00:39.150 --> 02:00:40.370 especially like the 02:00:41.210 --> 02:00:43.030 like that sort of part of the economy is 02:00:43.030 --> 02:00:44.470 very lagged 02:00:44.470 --> 02:00:46.390 where they don't understand 02:00:46.390 --> 02:00:48.050 like what's happening in 02:00:48.050 --> 02:00:50.110 the world economy at the moment 02:00:50.110 --> 02:00:52.470 and so like that guy will probably you know 02:00:52.470 --> 02:00:53.850 and like buy 02:00:54.690 --> 02:00:55.170 2030 02:00:56.230 --> 02:00:58.550 there won't be any venture capital business anymore 02:00:58.550 --> 02:01:00.350 and he'll be like and 02:01:00.350 --> 02:01:02.610 probably in my view it takes you like 10 years 02:01:02.610 --> 02:01:04.190 to do this because it like really took 02:01:04.190 --> 02:01:06.230 I kind of like from 02:01:06.230 --> 02:01:08.630 when I grew up finished university and started getting involved 02:01:08.630 --> 02:01:10.450 in like startups and GPUs and everything 02:01:10.450 --> 02:01:12.310 and Bitcoin 02:01:12.310 --> 02:01:14.670 like by the end by the time 02:01:15.650 --> 02:01:16.610 that sort of 02:01:16.610 --> 02:01:18.210 like speculative thing 02:01:18.210 --> 02:01:20.210 and everything is gone it's like 02:01:20.210 --> 02:01:21.390 10 years have passed 02:01:21.870 --> 02:01:23.610 so I think there's going to be a lot of that 02:01:24.350 --> 02:01:26.150 you know they're just you know you can 02:01:26.150 --> 02:01:28.270 imagine some of these people some of these like 02:01:28.270 --> 02:01:30.270 zoomer kids that they never even like 02:01:30.270 --> 02:01:31.070 went to university 02:01:32.710 --> 02:01:34.290 because like the whole university 02:01:34.290 --> 02:01:35.390 or like into high school 02:01:36.110 --> 02:01:38.070 was all in COVID lockdowns and stuff 02:01:39.570 --> 02:01:40.010 that 02:01:40.010 --> 02:01:42.070 that there's going to be a big you know by 02:01:42.070 --> 02:01:43.990 we're only really like I said 02:01:43.990 --> 02:01:45.950 it's only really like one halving past 02:01:45.950 --> 02:01:48.030 but you can also sort of look at it as like 02:01:48.030 --> 02:01:49.990 we're only we're halfway through the 2020s 02:01:49.990 --> 02:01:52.010 now so in the 02:01:52.010 --> 02:01:53.790 same way well it felt like a long 02:01:53.790 --> 02:01:56.030 infinite long like never ended time when we're going 02:01:56.030 --> 02:01:58.070 through it but when you think about it like 02:01:58.070 --> 02:01:59.570 well you know March 02:01:59.570 --> 02:02:01.750 20th March like 2025 02:02:02.430 --> 02:02:03.950 isn't very like far long 02:02:03.950 --> 02:02:05.330 since yeah 02:02:05.970 --> 02:02:08.170 20th March I think it was like 19th March 02:02:08.170 --> 02:02:09.470 or something 2020 02:02:10.150 --> 02:02:12.410 right it's like five years to the day pretty much 02:02:12.410 --> 02:02:13.150 and 02:02:15.670 --> 02:02:16.070 by 02:02:16.990 --> 02:02:17.390 2030 02:02:18.390 --> 02:02:20.250 that and I've also sort of 02:02:20.250 --> 02:02:22.110 said this to people like in respect to Trump because 02:02:22.110 --> 02:02:24.230 you had a Trump admin and then now you have one 02:02:24.230 --> 02:02:26.170 again and that like there's 02:02:26.170 --> 02:02:28.270 a lot of confusion destabilization sort of 02:02:28.270 --> 02:02:29.830 like trying to wake up you know 02:02:29.830 --> 02:02:32.070 from a coma sort of experience in the 02:02:32.070 --> 02:02:34.190 market like you've got amnesia it will 02:02:34.190 --> 02:02:34.650 take 02:02:35.650 --> 02:02:37.090 most people in America 02:02:37.090 --> 02:02:39.010 like until 2030 02:02:39.010 --> 02:02:40.890 to realize like 02:02:40.890 --> 02:02:42.510 what actually happened 02:02:42.510 --> 02:02:44.410 you know with the with the real 02:02:44.410 --> 02:02:46.690 inauguration of Trump to actually be 02:02:46.690 --> 02:02:48.790 able to be far away 02:02:48.790 --> 02:02:50.850 from that point in the same way that people 02:02:50.850 --> 02:02:52.750 are like now they're kind of far away 02:02:52.750 --> 02:02:54.630 enough away from 2020 that 02:02:54.630 --> 02:02:56.750 that people start to go what the 02:02:56.750 --> 02:02:58.730 hell was going on in 2020 and what happened 02:02:58.730 --> 02:02:59.730 to me you know 02:03:00.930 --> 02:03:02.490 and and that you can 02:03:02.490 --> 02:03:04.290 have that conversation relatively normally 02:03:04.790 --> 02:03:06.670 and from the left perspective 02:03:06.670 --> 02:03:08.570 mostly they're just like please 02:03:08.570 --> 02:03:10.410 don't talk to me about that and then 02:03:10.410 --> 02:03:12.610 vote you know and then and then we're 02:03:12.610 --> 02:03:14.170 kind of in a in a big recession 02:03:14.170 --> 02:03:16.390 where they just don't want to talk about it at all 02:03:16.390 --> 02:03:18.590 but my view is that by 2030 02:03:19.030 --> 02:03:20.250 people will be 02:03:21.610 --> 02:03:22.710 ready to talk about 02:03:22.710 --> 02:03:24.610 it wanting to talk about it and the 02:03:24.610 --> 02:03:26.470 issue is that if a lot of these like 02:03:26.470 --> 02:03:28.510 remaining risks like the AI 02:03:28.510 --> 02:03:30.610 stuff doesn't actually work yeah like the 02:03:30.610 --> 02:03:32.710 same AI technology that like you're 02:03:32.710 --> 02:03:34.470 using on your laptop and like consuming 02:03:34.470 --> 02:03:36.610 every day is exactly the same technology that 02:03:36.610 --> 02:03:38.670 was like fueling everything in 2020 02:03:38.670 --> 02:03:40.690 every single decision you know 02:03:40.690 --> 02:03:42.530 all of the information that you're being 02:03:42.530 --> 02:03:44.450 exposed to the entire recommendation 02:03:44.450 --> 02:03:46.610 elements all these GPUs that are doing the same 02:03:46.610 --> 02:03:48.630 kind of processing and 02:03:48.630 --> 02:03:50.590 the same sort of like speculative amplified 02:03:50.590 --> 02:03:52.610 like viral incentives 02:03:52.610 --> 02:03:53.690 and modeling 02:03:56.090 --> 02:03:56.650 if 02:03:56.650 --> 02:03:57.730 that 02:03:58.970 --> 02:03:59.830 if that 02:04:00.490 --> 02:04:01.730 hasn't been patched up 02:04:01.730 --> 02:04:03.070 i.e. if 02:04:03.730 --> 02:04:05.790 people don't know how to use Bitcoin to manage 02:04:05.790 --> 02:04:07.850 the manage the risk of 02:04:07.850 --> 02:04:08.350 the AI 02:04:09.430 --> 02:04:11.690 in terms of the what it does in the information 02:04:11.690 --> 02:04:13.890 environment you will literally be back to like 02:04:13.890 --> 02:04:15.230 2020 part two again 02:04:16.170 --> 02:04:17.790 that's I think that 02:04:17.790 --> 02:04:19.370 it's like not not 02:04:19.370 --> 02:04:21.330 unrealistic at all 02:04:21.330 --> 02:04:22.990 but it's our job 02:04:23.630 --> 02:04:25.630 if we actually have the technical 02:04:25.630 --> 02:04:27.710 exposure and 02:04:27.710 --> 02:04:29.910 we have gone through like the last 02:04:29.910 --> 02:04:31.630 four years being able to 02:04:31.630 --> 02:04:33.410 observe what's happening and like we still have 02:04:33.410 --> 02:04:35.670 sanity it's our job 02:04:35.670 --> 02:04:37.690 still to like well we may 02:04:37.690 --> 02:04:39.670 be in a deep recession and there's no like 02:04:39.670 --> 02:04:41.690 speculative money around to kind of like proper people 02:04:41.690 --> 02:04:43.710 for the like yeah you may have to spend those 02:04:43.710 --> 02:04:45.370 Bitcoin things that you like 02:04:45.370 --> 02:04:47.390 collected up for a rainy day and the rainy 02:04:47.390 --> 02:04:49.730 days it's here now maybe you need to 02:04:49.730 --> 02:04:51.570 you know like dig it dig in 02:04:51.570 --> 02:04:53.610 to you know do a deep search in 02:04:53.610 --> 02:04:55.650 your pocket for some of 02:04:55.650 --> 02:04:57.430 those Toshis and 02:04:58.190 --> 02:04:59.610 right and figure 02:04:59.610 --> 02:05:01.330 out something that that you can 02:05:01.330 --> 02:05:03.630 that you can put them to work towards 02:05:04.430 --> 02:05:05.870 that is going to 02:05:05.870 --> 02:05:07.110 generate a real value 02:05:07.110 --> 02:05:08.970 right that's going to remove a 02:05:08.970 --> 02:05:11.710 real risk and so it's our job to do that 02:05:11.710 --> 02:05:13.450 pricing that's a naturally 02:05:13.450 --> 02:05:15.590 like how pricing like works in the economy 02:05:15.590 --> 02:05:17.650 but to this day 02:05:17.650 --> 02:05:19.330 people still price Bitcoin 02:05:19.330 --> 02:05:21.630 dollars and if you 02:05:21.630 --> 02:05:23.190 are still pricing 02:05:23.190 --> 02:05:25.430 dollars and not dollars in Bitcoin 02:05:25.430 --> 02:05:27.570 then you may think that you 02:05:27.570 --> 02:05:29.370 spend all your day you're like on the Bitcoin 02:05:29.370 --> 02:05:31.510 industry but you're really more in the Michael 02:05:31.510 --> 02:05:33.410 Saylor business of 02:05:33.410 --> 02:05:35.150 conserving American 02:05:35.150 --> 02:05:37.590 dollar capital and if and you're 02:05:37.590 --> 02:05:39.410 for any of that business like Maya suggest just 02:05:39.410 --> 02:05:40.670 go do the AI thing because 02:05:41.450 --> 02:05:43.150 there's already a big sort of national 02:05:43.150 --> 02:05:45.630 Manhattan project thing of 02:05:45.630 --> 02:05:47.310 hey if you know how to 02:05:47.950 --> 02:05:48.470 write 02:05:49.030 --> 02:05:50.450 Cuda or metal code 02:05:50.450 --> 02:05:52.470 then yeah there are still jobs for you to 02:05:52.470 --> 02:05:54.410 to go out there and do that the 02:05:54.410 --> 02:05:56.630 issue is that most people in crypto 02:05:56.630 --> 02:05:58.570 they haven't they don't actually 02:05:58.570 --> 02:06:00.990 have expertise they have sort of like 02:06:01.810 --> 02:06:02.650 they're faking 02:06:02.650 --> 02:06:04.770 signaling their human capital of like 02:06:04.770 --> 02:06:06.530 convincing themselves that because 02:06:06.530 --> 02:06:08.570 they asked the chatbot something that they learned 02:06:08.570 --> 02:06:10.370 it in five minutes and the 02:06:10.370 --> 02:06:12.550 issue is that although yes they may have just 02:06:12.550 --> 02:06:14.510 gotten at school they don't have 02:06:14.510 --> 02:06:15.810 the long-term knowledge 02:06:16.970 --> 02:06:18.370 of having worked on that 02:06:18.370 --> 02:06:19.850 in the past and like the other 02:06:19.850 --> 02:06:22.210 errors you know like like lower difficulty 02:06:23.410 --> 02:06:23.850 so 02:06:23.850 --> 02:06:26.070 so they're only really you know 02:06:26.070 --> 02:06:27.930 able to they need to be working at the 02:06:27.930 --> 02:06:29.410 front lines right 02:06:30.310 --> 02:06:32.150 and most of the hard work at the 02:06:32.150 --> 02:06:33.850 moment isn't on the front like the AI kind 02:06:33.850 --> 02:06:36.170 of like solves most of those front line problems because you just like 02:06:36.170 --> 02:06:37.990 AI can do your spreadsheet for you now 02:06:39.010 --> 02:06:40.350 it's these like big 02:06:40.350 --> 02:06:41.990 deep strategy for like 02:06:41.990 --> 02:06:44.010 small numbers like 02:06:44.010 --> 02:06:46.130 the like like Intel Intel has 02:06:46.130 --> 02:06:48.170 a bigger their board you know they fired 02:06:48.170 --> 02:06:50.010 the CEO the founder of the VMware 02:06:50.630 --> 02:06:52.390 and so now they're sort of in a 02:06:52.390 --> 02:06:54.970 crisis right at the very moment 02:06:54.970 --> 02:06:56.170 that Intel has actually 02:06:56.170 --> 02:06:57.670 solved their 02:06:57.670 --> 02:07:00.190 so they had like a very very very technical 02:07:00.190 --> 02:07:02.730 CEO that right at the very moment 02:07:02.730 --> 02:07:04.270 that Intel is actually fundamentally 02:07:04.270 --> 02:07:06.350 solved its competitiveness 02:07:06.350 --> 02:07:08.010 issues which is it looks like 02:07:08.010 --> 02:07:10.490 the 18 a fab process of Intel 02:07:10.490 --> 02:07:12.330 is going to be the best in the industry 02:07:12.330 --> 02:07:14.230 and like even Nvidia is currently 02:07:14.230 --> 02:07:16.410 looking at using the Intel fab process 02:07:16.410 --> 02:07:18.510 basically like the CEO gets 02:07:18.510 --> 02:07:20.350 like thank you very much for like 02:07:20.350 --> 02:07:22.430 creating all that value please go 02:07:22.430 --> 02:07:24.410 away and and you know because 02:07:24.410 --> 02:07:26.150 because they exist in this like manipulated 02:07:26.150 --> 02:07:28.310 market where if that 02:07:28.310 --> 02:07:30.650 isn't planned as like 02:07:30.650 --> 02:07:32.110 well at some point in the next 02:07:32.110 --> 02:07:34.090 before the next halving cycle 02:07:34.090 --> 02:07:35.250 we're just going to like 02:07:36.490 --> 02:07:38.530 take all of that in video capital 02:07:38.530 --> 02:07:39.330 and like 02:07:40.130 --> 02:07:40.570 make 02:07:41.290 --> 02:07:43.350 in the same way that like it used to be 02:07:43.350 --> 02:07:45.290 the Intel price and the Nvidia 02:07:45.290 --> 02:07:46.890 price and then now it's like 02:07:47.490 --> 02:07:49.290 we had a flipping and like 02:07:49.290 --> 02:07:50.830 Nvidia is a new Intel and it's like 02:07:51.130 --> 02:07:53.050 yeah Nvidia is not the Intel we're just like 02:07:53.050 --> 02:07:55.170 you know let's just go like punish 02:07:55.170 --> 02:07:57.550 Intel for a bit put all the money over there 02:07:57.550 --> 02:07:59.430 being like you guys are doing a great job 02:07:59.430 --> 02:08:00.750 and tell GPUs to everybody 02:08:01.250 --> 02:08:02.970 and then like when they're all out of the 02:08:02.970 --> 02:08:04.810 GPU thing and be like Jensen your 02:08:04.810 --> 02:08:05.870 drivers still don't work 02:08:06.650 --> 02:08:08.170 then they'll go put them over there 02:08:08.170 --> 02:08:09.730 right and that's why I like Apple because 02:08:09.730 --> 02:08:11.930 Apple is sort of like they like 02:08:11.930 --> 02:08:13.870 this is like the game of the Protestants 02:08:15.250 --> 02:08:16.470 you know you got all the 02:08:16.870 --> 02:08:18.350 denominations whereas Apple is kind of like 02:08:18.350 --> 02:08:20.090 safe there's like a very famous 02:08:21.690 --> 02:08:22.750 there's a very famous 02:08:22.750 --> 02:08:24.310 like write up I can't remember 02:08:24.310 --> 02:08:26.010 I'd have to find the link but it basically 02:08:26.010 --> 02:08:28.190 explains like well the PC 02:08:28.190 --> 02:08:28.590 the 02:08:31.310 --> 02:08:32.470 Apple is Catholic 02:08:33.550 --> 02:08:33.930 and 02:08:34.690 --> 02:08:35.910 and Microsoft is 02:08:35.910 --> 02:08:36.590 Windows 02:08:38.030 --> 02:08:39.230 you know Mac OS 02:08:39.230 --> 02:08:41.490 is Catholic and 02:08:41.490 --> 02:08:43.830 Microsoft Windows is Protestant and so 02:08:43.830 --> 02:08:45.870 when you have the PC and you can glue 02:08:45.870 --> 02:08:47.550 together all your parts in all the different ways 02:08:47.550 --> 02:08:49.630 and change all your backgrounds and make it all how you want 02:08:49.630 --> 02:08:51.910 then this 02:08:51.910 --> 02:08:53.090 is from the 90s or something 02:08:54.030 --> 02:08:55.770 so in comparison like 02:08:55.770 --> 02:08:57.870 if you're looking for like a stable investment 02:08:57.870 --> 02:08:59.850 of just a computer and you don't need all the bells 02:08:59.850 --> 02:09:01.870 and whistles then like between 02:09:01.870 --> 02:09:03.530 the drama of like Intel 02:09:03.530 --> 02:09:05.090 and Nvidia 02:09:05.870 --> 02:09:06.650 then it's 02:09:06.650 --> 02:09:09.990 you know is it American 1960s 02:09:09.990 --> 02:09:11.790 like American Gordon Moore 02:09:11.790 --> 02:09:13.850 you know is that going to be the 02:09:13.850 --> 02:09:16.130 American dynamism or is it going to be 02:09:16.130 --> 02:09:16.910 this like Elon 02:09:18.050 --> 02:09:18.690 Taiwan 02:09:19.510 --> 02:09:21.870 thing right and so look for 02:09:21.870 --> 02:09:23.770 that transition like rumor is 02:09:23.770 --> 02:09:26.050 that the fab process is looking really really good 02:09:26.930 --> 02:09:27.810 I also 02:09:27.810 --> 02:09:29.870 a viewer is like Intel has 02:09:29.870 --> 02:09:32.170 real business that you still run real computers 02:09:32.170 --> 02:09:33.510 and operating systems on and 02:09:33.510 --> 02:09:34.770 Nvidia is a long long 02:09:35.590 --> 02:09:37.050 way away from 02:09:37.050 --> 02:09:39.670 doing anything anywhere close to that like so 02:09:39.670 --> 02:09:41.030 there's any any 02:09:41.030 --> 02:09:43.230 Nvidia computer you have to use 02:09:43.230 --> 02:09:45.170 through an Intel or an AMD 02:09:45.170 --> 02:09:46.150 or a 02:09:46.150 --> 02:09:48.210 or an Apple device 02:09:49.050 --> 02:09:50.870 they do try to buy 02:09:50.870 --> 02:09:53.170 to get into the into the CPU game 02:09:53.810 --> 02:09:56.010 but they don't really have they've made lots of like 02:09:56.010 --> 02:09:57.630 CPU integrated 02:09:57.630 --> 02:09:59.690 GPU you know products in a long time 02:09:59.690 --> 02:10:01.610 but it was mostly just a way to 02:10:01.610 --> 02:10:02.370 try to 02:10:03.570 --> 02:10:05.490 yeah like some more GPUs 02:10:05.490 --> 02:10:07.930 essentially so that they have a lot of like 02:10:07.930 --> 02:10:09.650 huge technical debt essentially 02:10:09.650 --> 02:10:11.690 from their fundamental business that they're in 02:10:11.690 --> 02:10:13.530 that really restricts them 02:10:13.530 --> 02:10:15.270 from becoming a CPU company 02:10:15.270 --> 02:10:17.670 and if they became a CPU company then they 02:10:17.670 --> 02:10:19.670 somebody would just come along in five minutes and do that better 02:10:19.670 --> 02:10:21.490 like there's a company start up 02:10:21.490 --> 02:10:23.870 and run by 02:10:23.870 --> 02:10:25.350 he used to be 02:10:25.350 --> 02:10:26.870 Intel's like he 02:10:26.870 --> 02:10:28.790 is basically the 02:10:28.790 --> 02:10:30.870 the US's most famous CPU designer 02:10:30.870 --> 02:10:31.830 Jim Keller 02:10:31.830 --> 02:10:34.630 designed Tesla's chip designer AMD 02:10:34.630 --> 02:10:36.890 Athlon and 64 bit 02:10:36.890 --> 02:10:37.230 and 02:10:39.230 --> 02:10:40.870 he was the head of 02:10:40.870 --> 02:10:43.270 the head chip architects like under 02:10:43.270 --> 02:10:44.450 Intel 02:10:44.450 --> 02:10:46.650 2020 at Intel and 02:10:47.350 --> 02:10:49.250 he has a chip company called 02:10:49.250 --> 02:10:51.150 TenseTorrent which is sort of like 02:10:51.150 --> 02:10:52.910 they're Nvidia they're 02:10:53.570 --> 02:10:54.750 well funded like 02:10:54.750 --> 02:10:56.770 200 million or something like sort of 02:10:56.770 --> 02:10:59.110 chip upstart that's competing 02:10:59.110 --> 02:11:01.290 with Nvidia where it's 02:11:01.290 --> 02:11:02.770 they're making a CPU 02:11:03.670 --> 02:11:05.190 they're using a different kind of RAM 02:11:05.190 --> 02:11:06.570 so they don't compete 02:11:06.570 --> 02:11:08.070 on the same level with 02:11:08.750 --> 02:11:10.810 the amount of like they're not competing over 02:11:10.810 --> 02:11:12.810 the same commodity of the high bandwidth memory 02:11:12.810 --> 02:11:13.690 that they put on a 02:11:14.810 --> 02:11:16.870 on any kind of AI accelerator 02:11:18.030 --> 02:11:18.550 and 02:11:20.050 --> 02:11:20.970 yeah so 02:11:20.970 --> 02:11:22.330 so I'm quite interested 02:11:22.820 --> 02:11:25.050 in seeing if they show up in here 02:11:25.610 --> 02:11:27.070 potentially they may just sort of 02:11:27.070 --> 02:11:28.430 get folded back into Intel or something 02:11:28.920 --> 02:11:30.430 possibly well knows I think 02:11:30.920 --> 02:11:33.210 Intel had a patent for a while 02:11:33.210 --> 02:11:34.350 on an ASIC 02:11:34.900 --> 02:11:36.890 on a Bitcoin ASIC and I think that they 02:11:36.890 --> 02:11:38.870 sold it to block so I think that's like the 02:11:38.870 --> 02:11:40.290 block square have some 02:11:40.900 --> 02:11:43.190 block you know they have some mining operations 02:11:43.190 --> 02:11:44.230 still some 02:11:44.840 --> 02:11:45.790 involve somewhere and 02:11:45.790 --> 02:11:47.250 they have their patent 02:11:48.530 --> 02:11:50.230 okay here let me ask you 02:11:50.230 --> 02:11:51.790 I know you I know you're 02:11:51.790 --> 02:11:53.090 it's probably been a while and 02:11:53.090 --> 02:11:55.370 how much longer do you have with us 02:11:56.510 --> 02:11:57.290 let's say like 02:11:57.290 --> 02:11:59.190 five to minutes awesome 02:11:59.190 --> 02:12:01.390 so what's the 21 02:12:01.390 --> 02:12:03.310 to market strategy 02:12:04.510 --> 02:12:05.950 well main thing is that 02:12:05.950 --> 02:12:08.010 like all of that speculative sort of like 02:12:08.450 --> 02:12:10.050 thing like we did in the last 02:12:10.050 --> 02:12:11.750 having cycle we had go to market 02:12:11.750 --> 02:12:13.590 strategies and then like from the very beginning 02:12:13.590 --> 02:12:15.990 you know we're locked down can go anywhere for two years 02:12:15.990 --> 02:12:18.290 so we were always just sort of 02:12:18.290 --> 02:12:20.090 I had in what I 02:12:20.090 --> 02:12:22.190 did it originally and think this is actually 02:12:22.190 --> 02:12:23.830 like before the 2020 halving essentially 02:12:23.830 --> 02:12:26.090 because it was like in January 2020 02:12:26.090 --> 02:12:28.070 you know we did these tests 02:12:28.070 --> 02:12:30.370 to see if you can use proof of work 02:12:30.370 --> 02:12:32.290 as like essentially a alternate 02:12:32.290 --> 02:12:34.130 algorithm for 02:12:34.130 --> 02:12:35.530 yes distributing content 02:12:35.530 --> 02:12:37.950 right for recommender systems and that was 02:12:37.950 --> 02:12:40.010 before we set out about building that technology 02:12:41.070 --> 02:12:42.030 but we 02:12:42.030 --> 02:12:43.750 knew that like hey you can just go on Bitcoin 02:12:43.750 --> 02:12:45.910 and do this like this so from 02:12:45.910 --> 02:12:47.010 that core thing 02:12:47.650 --> 02:12:49.930 from that point that we could work 02:12:49.930 --> 02:12:51.710 with the idea was that well 02:12:51.710 --> 02:12:53.170 we can work towards building 02:12:53.690 --> 02:12:55.870 specific products like that make 02:12:55.870 --> 02:12:57.810 that work or what you 02:12:57.810 --> 02:12:59.050 would use Google or Twitter to do 02:13:00.350 --> 02:13:01.770 in 2022 that 02:13:01.770 --> 02:13:02.530 market got disrupted 02:13:03.970 --> 02:13:05.290 right so any 02:13:05.290 --> 02:13:07.810 even sort of like the plan 02:13:07.810 --> 02:13:09.010 that I had at that time 02:13:09.750 --> 02:13:10.590 that was 02:13:10.590 --> 02:13:11.470 that 02:13:12.310 --> 02:13:14.630 you know the market 02:13:14.630 --> 02:13:15.130 appeared 02:13:16.300 --> 02:13:18.310 and we weren't playing the same game 02:13:18.310 --> 02:13:18.950 right 02:13:20.250 --> 02:13:22.030 it's like you're on a 02:13:22.790 --> 02:13:24.350 you're on some like 02:13:25.590 --> 02:13:26.510 the entire 02:13:26.510 --> 02:13:27.890 wrong generation console or something 02:13:28.590 --> 02:13:30.690 like you're on a completely different server 02:13:30.690 --> 02:13:31.470 so 02:13:33.710 --> 02:13:36.170 a lot of that just had to be 02:13:36.170 --> 02:13:37.950 basically accelerated to its 02:13:37.950 --> 02:13:39.870 eventual conclusion and I had 02:13:39.870 --> 02:13:41.470 team and everything you know working 02:13:41.470 --> 02:13:42.790 and it's 02:13:43.630 --> 02:13:44.390 now just 02:13:45.570 --> 02:13:47.650 me for a while still 02:13:47.650 --> 02:13:49.690 but we have adjacent we have 02:13:49.690 --> 02:13:51.730 sort of like you know we started on this from 02:13:51.730 --> 02:13:54.110 Twitter and there wasn't 02:13:54.110 --> 02:13:55.350 just this sort of like 02:13:56.110 --> 02:13:57.730 and you could even you know you can try to 02:13:57.730 --> 02:13:58.530 back to the COVID 02:13:59.730 --> 02:14:01.710 events too but it wasn't just 02:14:01.710 --> 02:14:03.770 this sort of like chat GPT moment it was also 02:14:03.770 --> 02:14:05.250 this like Elon moment with Twitter 02:14:06.130 --> 02:14:06.730 right 02:14:07.090 --> 02:14:09.170 and so really like from 02:14:09.170 --> 02:14:11.370 the perspective of being 02:14:11.370 --> 02:14:13.130 a signal that you 02:14:13.130 --> 02:14:15.170 can come and do this alternative algorithm 02:14:15.170 --> 02:14:17.270 and distributed like this is 02:14:17.270 --> 02:14:19.130 that right and like the 02:14:19.130 --> 02:14:20.990 number of people who are aware of that 02:14:20.990 --> 02:14:22.790 and then and then that's something that anybody 02:14:22.790 --> 02:14:25.010 can come on and by 02:14:26.230 --> 02:14:26.830 associating 02:14:26.830 --> 02:14:28.790 with information 02:14:28.790 --> 02:14:31.150 and the way that we put it out there 02:14:31.150 --> 02:14:33.530 yours you acquire that capacity 02:14:33.530 --> 02:14:35.630 right so I don't make 02:14:35.630 --> 02:14:37.290 any money off of it at the moment like we 02:14:37.290 --> 02:14:39.250 lose lots of money like supporting 02:14:39.250 --> 02:14:41.430 that platform like on X 02:14:41.430 --> 02:14:43.390 but instead of 02:14:43.390 --> 02:14:45.750 like paying affiliate verified 02:14:45.750 --> 02:14:47.530 organizations bill is a much 02:14:47.530 --> 02:14:49.590 lower way to provide that 02:14:49.590 --> 02:14:51.050 like network 02:14:52.170 --> 02:14:53.490 then if we tried 02:14:53.490 --> 02:14:55.570 to host our own website and we'd have to hire lots 02:14:55.570 --> 02:14:57.630 of people and everything right and so you can 02:14:57.630 --> 02:14:59.590 look at actually urban as sort 02:14:59.590 --> 02:15:00.690 of in a similar kind of camp 02:15:01.710 --> 02:15:03.030 that they really got 02:15:03.030 --> 02:15:04.630 sort of like that Milady thing 02:15:04.630 --> 02:15:06.830 like they were really just this NFT in this like 02:15:06.830 --> 02:15:08.410 you know gated community 02:15:09.210 --> 02:15:10.830 so the Milady people really 02:15:10.830 --> 02:15:12.130 did that like much more efficiently 02:15:12.650 --> 02:15:14.570 they may still have sort of like kind of crypto 02:15:14.570 --> 02:15:16.330 products and everything and they have a 02:15:16.330 --> 02:15:18.790 coin now as well which doesn't 02:15:18.790 --> 02:15:20.790 seem like it is really like helps them 02:15:20.790 --> 02:15:22.850 help them build any momentum like more 02:15:22.850 --> 02:15:24.830 than they had in the past but they basically 02:15:24.830 --> 02:15:26.690 just have a bunch of people on Twitter and they also 02:15:26.690 --> 02:15:28.590 it kind of took them like 18 02:15:28.590 --> 02:15:30.710 more it took them quite a long 02:15:30.710 --> 02:15:32.830 time to have an official 02:15:32.830 --> 02:15:34.710 kind of company Twitter account that handed 02:15:34.710 --> 02:15:36.310 out badges and they and 02:15:36.310 --> 02:15:38.690 it's sort of like they make 02:15:38.690 --> 02:15:40.550 money from people doing that with the theory 02:15:40.550 --> 02:15:42.750 men of teas so they sort of like 02:15:42.750 --> 02:15:43.930 provide that service 02:15:44.850 --> 02:15:46.770 similar to but but they 02:15:46.770 --> 02:15:48.710 do it sort of we're doing it and like the Dorsi 02:15:48.710 --> 02:15:50.710 era like a theory men of tea 02:15:50.710 --> 02:15:52.690 makes sense like they're sort of in this in this 02:15:52.690 --> 02:15:54.710 urban camp so we come at it from the Bitcoin 02:15:54.710 --> 02:15:56.310 side and 02:15:56.310 --> 02:15:58.370 not like digital identity and 02:15:58.370 --> 02:16:00.430 NFTs but rather the rather 02:16:00.430 --> 02:16:01.530 the just proof of work 02:16:02.490 --> 02:16:04.430 and so for now you know like 02:16:04.430 --> 02:16:06.210 we have this go to market where 02:16:06.210 --> 02:16:08.430 where we do sit exactly in the 02:16:08.430 --> 02:16:10.290 sweet point sweet 02:16:10.290 --> 02:16:12.470 spot between you know the 02:16:12.470 --> 02:16:13.930 AI market as it is 02:16:13.930 --> 02:16:16.450 the moment which is still sort of like 02:16:16.450 --> 02:16:17.690 design competition 02:16:18.310 --> 02:16:20.350 right it's not the same thing as like 02:16:20.350 --> 02:16:22.270 the hyper speculative markets that 02:16:22.270 --> 02:16:24.510 existed in the last having but it's 02:16:24.510 --> 02:16:26.330 also not what the market 02:16:26.330 --> 02:16:27.830 what we think the market is going to become 02:16:28.430 --> 02:16:30.370 which is these types of not AI 02:16:30.370 --> 02:16:31.610 like node hardware 02:16:32.330 --> 02:16:34.110 that people are doing at the moment but 02:16:34.110 --> 02:16:36.590 Nvidia doing it is still just 02:16:36.590 --> 02:16:38.490 because they're kind of like trying to convince their 02:16:38.490 --> 02:16:39.990 investors that 02:16:40.350 --> 02:16:42.250 that they warrant a premium above 02:16:42.250 --> 02:16:44.310 Apple and their pre and their 02:16:44.310 --> 02:16:46.430 multiples are about this they're 02:16:46.430 --> 02:16:48.030 down to about exactly the same now 02:16:48.030 --> 02:16:50.390 Apple just announced like two weeks ago a 02:16:50.390 --> 02:16:52.450 512 gig Mac mini so you 02:16:52.450 --> 02:16:54.490 can run these biggest models pretty much 02:16:54.490 --> 02:16:56.430 on just like two $10,000 02:16:56.430 --> 02:16:58.370 Mac studios right 02:16:58.370 --> 02:17:00.210 and $20,000 Mac 02:17:00.210 --> 02:17:02.530 studios well it's about how much I paid for that crappy 02:17:02.530 --> 02:17:04.590 super micro server that doesn't do shit for me 02:17:04.590 --> 02:17:06.450 in 2020 so if I was 02:17:06.450 --> 02:17:08.510 starting you know if I was trying to do what 02:17:08.510 --> 02:17:10.350 I was doing 2020 today and getting into competition 02:17:10.350 --> 02:17:12.630 data markets I would just buy the Mac studios 02:17:12.630 --> 02:17:14.330 right but that's because 02:17:14.330 --> 02:17:16.590 the state of the art and public 02:17:16.590 --> 02:17:17.970 of that technology 02:17:17.970 --> 02:17:19.770 is that you need 02:17:19.770 --> 02:17:21.690 you need to be able to run the biggest 02:17:21.690 --> 02:17:23.650 model to keep up 02:17:23.650 --> 02:17:25.570 so it's entry you know that 02:17:25.570 --> 02:17:26.530 that's the entry point 02:17:27.990 --> 02:17:29.430 I you know you and I 02:17:29.430 --> 02:17:31.610 anyone who's in Bitcoin knows that you can 02:17:31.610 --> 02:17:33.530 basically just you know have a crappy little 02:17:33.530 --> 02:17:34.250 Raspberry Pi 02:17:35.790 --> 02:17:37.210 and probably an iPhone 02:17:37.210 --> 02:17:39.150 right and 02:17:39.150 --> 02:17:41.530 and essentially do the same sort of inferencing 02:17:41.530 --> 02:17:43.670 because you can just sort of process the 02:17:43.670 --> 02:17:44.770 information you know 02:17:44.770 --> 02:17:47.190 on the ASIC up here 02:17:47.190 --> 02:17:49.570 yourself and you don't have to pay Jensen Wang 02:17:49.570 --> 02:17:51.230 for that right but for people 02:17:51.230 --> 02:17:52.630 that maybe like they don't have Bitcoin 02:17:53.010 --> 02:17:54.650 then when they go and do this AI thing 02:17:54.650 --> 02:17:56.390 it gives them the feeling 02:17:56.390 --> 02:17:59.010 it gives them this inferencing capacity 02:17:59.010 --> 02:18:00.210 predictive power 02:18:00.210 --> 02:18:02.450 or projection power that 02:18:03.150 --> 02:18:04.450 that Bitcoin gives you 02:18:05.390 --> 02:18:06.350 proportional to 02:18:06.970 --> 02:18:09.230 how much you got and how long you've been holding it 02:18:09.230 --> 02:18:10.970 and how much information you've been able to 02:18:10.970 --> 02:18:12.930 take in that process right 02:18:13.450 --> 02:18:15.170 so you buy the Mac mini 02:18:15.170 --> 02:18:16.750 and there's 02:18:16.750 --> 02:18:19.070 218 software within the Mac mini 02:18:19.070 --> 02:18:21.070 well but this is the point is that like 02:18:21.070 --> 02:18:23.070 we had this like speculative thing 02:18:23.070 --> 02:18:24.890 for not how do we go to market 02:18:24.890 --> 02:18:27.070 as a business so much as like we actually kind of 02:18:27.070 --> 02:18:29.010 did that because we just knew that we can any time 02:18:29.010 --> 02:18:31.130 that we want we could go on to Twitch and like post things 02:18:31.130 --> 02:18:31.890 and people pay us money 02:18:33.390 --> 02:18:35.070 right the thing with the 02:18:35.070 --> 02:18:37.270 speculation was like can you 02:18:37.270 --> 02:18:38.390 take that and 02:18:38.390 --> 02:18:40.910 and run a actual you know 02:18:40.910 --> 02:18:42.730 Twitter style social network with it 02:18:42.730 --> 02:18:44.730 and really like that business that project 02:18:44.730 --> 02:18:46.390 never got off the ground because like 02:18:46.390 --> 02:18:48.410 the whole COVID era meant that you couldn't 02:18:48.410 --> 02:18:50.490 go anywhere say anything do anything or you know 02:18:50.490 --> 02:18:52.610 even look look weird ways at people 02:18:52.610 --> 02:18:54.730 right so 02:18:54.730 --> 02:18:56.890 so we spent a long time 02:18:56.890 --> 02:18:58.490 trying to grapple with 02:18:59.110 --> 02:19:00.750 okay if you can't do the 02:19:00.750 --> 02:19:02.610 speculative thing and you were all kind of like trapped 02:19:02.610 --> 02:19:04.670 in the thing how do we solve that and what 02:19:04.670 --> 02:19:06.690 came out of it was 02:19:07.290 --> 02:19:08.730 was this notion 02:19:09.530 --> 02:19:10.890 of the physical 02:19:10.890 --> 02:19:12.870 bitcoin and how 02:19:12.870 --> 02:19:14.750 what we could best 02:19:14.750 --> 02:19:16.730 identify as the thing 02:19:16.730 --> 02:19:18.790 not necessarily for that that was 02:19:18.790 --> 02:19:20.930 currently a speculative asset that what people were treating 02:19:20.930 --> 02:19:22.970 as physical bitcoins because you could say in the last 02:19:22.970 --> 02:19:24.590 cycle that that was this h100 02:19:24.590 --> 02:19:26.910 but h100 there's Jensen how 02:19:26.910 --> 02:19:28.630 I'm saying like don't buy h100 02:19:28.630 --> 02:19:30.330 please you know yesterday 02:19:31.470 --> 02:19:32.770 there but but 02:19:32.770 --> 02:19:34.930 at the same time he's announcing this like here's 02:19:34.930 --> 02:19:36.690 a here's our new DGX server 02:19:36.690 --> 02:19:38.830 and it's like the size of a M2 Mac mini 02:19:38.830 --> 02:19:40.630 right but the M4 02:19:40.630 --> 02:19:42.430 Mac mini has come out and it's like 02:19:42.430 --> 02:19:44.250 you know 599 US dollars 02:19:45.430 --> 02:19:46.770 so there is 02:19:46.770 --> 02:19:48.350 and if 02:19:48.350 --> 02:19:50.910 if I had sort of like kept 02:19:50.910 --> 02:19:52.330 on was able to 02:19:52.890 --> 02:19:54.730 take you know what we were doing 02:19:54.730 --> 02:19:56.590 sort of in the 2022 and 2023 02:19:56.590 --> 02:19:58.870 time and then like carry that through into 02:19:58.870 --> 02:20:00.850 this halving and still had to we would have still 02:20:00.850 --> 02:20:02.970 had to pivot off of how 02:20:02.970 --> 02:20:04.730 do we go to market with search technology 02:20:04.730 --> 02:20:07.070 because the search technology was out there and done 02:20:07.070 --> 02:20:08.610 and Google was disrupted 02:20:08.610 --> 02:20:10.370 so there wasn't any like 02:20:11.050 --> 02:20:12.970 you know it's going to try to convince people to build 02:20:12.970 --> 02:20:14.930 a different data center they're already building their 02:20:14.930 --> 02:20:17.010 Nvidia data centers right but we had 02:20:17.010 --> 02:20:19.010 enough insight for like yeah but 02:20:19.010 --> 02:20:20.650 those Nvidia data centers aren't really 02:20:20.650 --> 02:20:22.910 that good they're really expensive 02:20:22.910 --> 02:20:24.150 they have all these other problems 02:20:25.210 --> 02:20:26.170 if you're 02:20:26.170 --> 02:20:28.730 and when you work on Bitcoin you're 02:20:28.730 --> 02:20:31.110 a lot more directly at the heart of the problem 02:20:31.110 --> 02:20:33.250 where those guys are dealing with like all kinds 02:20:33.250 --> 02:20:34.930 of other just random crap that 02:20:34.930 --> 02:20:36.450 doesn't matter like 02:20:38.810 --> 02:20:40.650 safety training and stuff like that 02:20:40.650 --> 02:20:43.110 they don't need to worry but it's like 02:20:43.110 --> 02:20:44.830 like just compare XAI 02:20:44.830 --> 02:20:46.930 data center to building 02:20:46.930 --> 02:20:48.890 a Bitcoin mine like building a Bitcoin mine 02:20:48.890 --> 02:20:50.270 like it doesn't even need internet 02:20:51.030 --> 02:20:52.950 you're basically just building like 02:20:52.950 --> 02:20:54.890 warehouses and doing the electrical work 02:20:54.890 --> 02:20:56.910 but that base work 02:20:56.910 --> 02:20:58.890 if you focus on that and do it a bit 02:20:58.890 --> 02:21:00.970 on scale much better than when you're 02:21:00.970 --> 02:21:02.790 trying to do an AI training center 02:21:02.790 --> 02:21:04.670 right and they just retrofit 02:21:04.670 --> 02:21:06.850 they retrofitted an Electrolux factory 02:21:06.850 --> 02:21:08.470 for that so they didn't actually build 02:21:08.470 --> 02:21:10.510 in the AI industry 02:21:10.510 --> 02:21:12.550 they're not building that like building part of 02:21:12.550 --> 02:21:13.530 part of the data center 02:21:14.810 --> 02:21:15.330 so 02:21:16.350 --> 02:21:16.870 like 02:21:17.870 --> 02:21:20.610 we don't really have any capacities very similar to the 02:21:20.610 --> 02:21:22.450 urban situation of like 02:21:23.250 --> 02:21:24.390 speculatively go out 02:21:24.390 --> 02:21:25.990 and plan some big thing and whatnot 02:21:25.990 --> 02:21:27.350 what we knew 02:21:27.910 --> 02:21:29.630 and what we could see with 02:21:29.630 --> 02:21:31.750 Nvidia's business model and the risks 02:21:31.750 --> 02:21:33.770 of their inventory and the risks of 02:21:33.770 --> 02:21:35.690 their manufacturing and then we could 02:21:35.690 --> 02:21:37.210 also see with MicroStrategy 02:21:37.210 --> 02:21:39.850 and like well what is it at the Bitcoin 02:21:39.850 --> 02:21:41.450 side and then what is 02:21:41.450 --> 02:21:44.070 what are his strengths and weaknesses because they're very much the opposite 02:21:44.830 --> 02:21:46.390 where does this 02:21:46.390 --> 02:21:46.970 weird 02:21:47.630 --> 02:21:49.210 physical Bitcoin like thing 02:21:49.210 --> 02:21:51.490 where do we fit in there 02:21:51.490 --> 02:21:52.990 and the conclusion 02:21:53.610 --> 02:21:55.870 of it was this concept 02:21:55.870 --> 02:21:57.710 of like Apple Silicon 02:21:57.710 --> 02:22:00.290 being something that you can treat like a stable coin 02:22:00.290 --> 02:22:02.130 because it's the most commodity 02:22:02.130 --> 02:22:03.950 right it is the most memetic 02:22:03.950 --> 02:22:05.950 and it's the most stable like an Apple 02:22:05.950 --> 02:22:07.750 computer depreciates less than 02:22:07.750 --> 02:22:09.870 any other like IT asset 02:22:09.870 --> 02:22:11.910 at all now if you approach it from a 02:22:11.910 --> 02:22:13.750 dollar lens rather than a Bitcoin lens 02:22:13.750 --> 02:22:15.950 then you're still going to look at that's a bad investment 02:22:15.950 --> 02:22:17.490 because it doesn't make me any dollars 02:22:17.490 --> 02:22:19.870 but that's because dollars don't know how to use 02:22:19.870 --> 02:22:21.730 computers and bitcoins know how to use computers 02:22:21.730 --> 02:22:23.990 right so like if you're 02:22:23.990 --> 02:22:25.050 in the business of like 02:22:25.590 --> 02:22:27.130 holding on to a huge inventory 02:22:27.130 --> 02:22:28.910 of some computers and which 02:22:28.910 --> 02:22:31.190 not really doing that I do have a bunch of computers 02:22:31.190 --> 02:22:32.890 that I was like left with from the previous 02:22:32.890 --> 02:22:34.950 from like the previous cycle 02:22:36.070 --> 02:22:37.190 but what we're doing 02:22:37.190 --> 02:22:39.190 at the moment is more like well there is 02:22:39.190 --> 02:22:39.870 this collective 02:22:41.030 --> 02:22:42.830 computing capacity that 02:22:42.830 --> 02:22:44.970 is a Bitcoin property but 02:22:44.970 --> 02:22:47.090 at the moment it's like hamstrung on these crappy 02:22:47.090 --> 02:22:48.690 little raspberry pies and it's not useful 02:22:48.690 --> 02:22:50.590 useful on everything right 02:22:51.310 --> 02:22:53.170 like you got it's like five years 02:22:53.170 --> 02:22:54.910 and they're still talking about Terra node and apparently 02:22:54.910 --> 02:22:56.890 use GPUs now you know I could 02:22:56.890 --> 02:22:58.650 have told them in 2020 like 02:22:59.150 --> 02:23:00.810 don't use Java like 02:23:00.810 --> 02:23:02.990 it's a dead end it's not going to work 02:23:02.990 --> 02:23:05.190 like you need to use GPUs I could have told them that 02:23:05.190 --> 02:23:07.070 in 2020 and that was like how I viewed the mark 02:23:07.070 --> 02:23:09.070 in 2020 we need to put GPUs in the Bitcoin node 02:23:09.070 --> 02:23:11.250 right couple of years after 02:23:11.250 --> 02:23:13.290 that project and not really making you know 02:23:13.290 --> 02:23:14.710 getting to go to market on it 02:23:15.230 --> 02:23:17.250 we realize that and it's not actually 02:23:17.250 --> 02:23:19.170 that great an idea anyway because these things 02:23:19.170 --> 02:23:21.090 called Apple Silicon now that didn't exist in 02:23:21.090 --> 02:23:23.050 like you know March 02:23:23.050 --> 02:23:25.170 20 or April 2020 or whatever 02:23:25.170 --> 02:23:26.970 when the Bitcoin mining having happened 02:23:26.970 --> 02:23:29.570 during the lockdown that didn't exist then 02:23:29.570 --> 02:23:31.130 so we couldn't act out like 02:23:31.130 --> 02:23:32.970 that wasn't a reality that we could 02:23:32.970 --> 02:23:34.810 just like plan and act on right 02:23:34.810 --> 02:23:35.750 similarly 02:23:37.650 --> 02:23:39.410 if I had 02:23:41.030 --> 02:23:43.050 although we did have this idea of 02:23:43.050 --> 02:23:44.670 like well we would really love to run 02:23:44.670 --> 02:23:46.810 become Google Google AdWords 02:23:46.810 --> 02:23:49.210 and like Bitcoin mining put together 02:23:49.210 --> 02:23:51.110 and like be the ad engine the principal 02:23:51.110 --> 02:23:53.150 the dollars like we knew 02:23:53.150 --> 02:23:55.330 how to do that technically but if I was 02:23:55.330 --> 02:23:57.210 like well Elon Musk 02:23:57.210 --> 02:23:59.310 is going to buy Twitter and he's going 02:23:59.310 --> 02:24:01.210 to pivot the whole business from like 02:24:01.730 --> 02:24:03.410 advertising and journalism and media 02:24:03.410 --> 02:24:05.250 and censorship and everything and put it all 02:24:05.250 --> 02:24:06.990 on to magical numbers 02:24:06.990 --> 02:24:08.770 and doge things and tick marks 02:24:09.930 --> 02:24:11.190 then that would have been pretty 02:24:12.030 --> 02:24:13.150 implausible so I 02:24:13.150 --> 02:24:14.970 couldn't have taken that seriously and like 02:24:14.970 --> 02:24:16.850 plan some go to market based on that 02:24:16.850 --> 02:24:18.730 but by that 02:24:18.730 --> 02:24:20.210 by the time that happened 02:24:20.850 --> 02:24:22.830 Bitcoin had much 02:24:22.830 --> 02:24:24.710 more quickly had it's like 02:24:24.710 --> 02:24:27.030 had been subject to this 02:24:27.030 --> 02:24:28.850 like macro wave of like what 02:24:28.850 --> 02:24:30.950 became chat GPT so before that actually 02:24:30.950 --> 02:24:32.830 happened but the Bank of England thing 02:24:32.830 --> 02:24:34.850 like the FTX thing like Ethereum 02:24:34.850 --> 02:24:36.970 turning off the GPT even the stablecoins 02:24:36.970 --> 02:24:38.890 that macro like 02:24:39.530 --> 02:24:40.430 wave front 02:24:40.430 --> 02:24:42.850 like that hit the whole Bitcoin industry 02:24:42.850 --> 02:24:44.570 in late 2022 02:24:45.430 --> 02:24:47.270 and so I also couldn't have 02:24:47.270 --> 02:24:48.950 if you ask me in 2020 02:24:48.950 --> 02:24:51.050 like are the biggest Bitcoin minors 02:24:51.050 --> 02:24:53.010 in the world with a several hundred megawatts 02:24:53.010 --> 02:24:54.830 they're just going to lose faith in BTC 02:24:54.830 --> 02:24:56.410 and so we did end up 02:24:56.410 --> 02:24:58.130 in this position in the market 02:24:58.130 --> 02:25:00.490 that is extremely valuable 02:25:00.490 --> 02:25:02.370 and literally the only other guy 02:25:02.370 --> 02:25:04.390 the only sort of other two people 02:25:04.390 --> 02:25:06.630 in this position is 02:25:06.630 --> 02:25:08.390 Elon and then Zuck 02:25:08.390 --> 02:25:10.770 just because he just runs a social network and has data centers 02:25:10.770 --> 02:25:12.730 anyway so he can copy trade them and keep up 02:25:12.730 --> 02:25:14.750 right he doesn't really have 02:25:14.750 --> 02:25:16.450 the intuition or like know how it works 02:25:16.450 --> 02:25:18.230 but X 02:25:18.230 --> 02:25:20.650 he did it he like plugs the revenue 02:25:20.650 --> 02:25:22.770 gap in X and then 02:25:22.770 --> 02:25:24.490 did the AI business second 02:25:24.490 --> 02:25:26.730 right whereas something like like Sam 02:25:26.730 --> 02:25:28.890 Altman he's sort of going on the timeline 02:25:28.890 --> 02:25:30.950 sort of like last week and like 02:25:30.950 --> 02:25:31.970 how do I 02:25:33.010 --> 02:25:34.070 how do I 02:25:37.130 --> 02:25:38.650 like he's talking about 02:25:38.650 --> 02:25:40.910 getting into the social they're thinking 02:25:40.910 --> 02:25:43.290 like do we need a social product and the answer is actually yes 02:25:43.290 --> 02:25:44.790 you need a social product but 02:25:44.790 --> 02:25:47.130 if you're doing that now and not in 2023 02:25:47.670 --> 02:25:48.890 then forget about it 02:25:48.890 --> 02:25:49.730 because you don't know 02:25:50.890 --> 02:25:53.230 like in the same time that threads came out 02:25:53.230 --> 02:25:54.730 so if open AI 02:25:54.730 --> 02:25:56.690 came out with like a Twitter competitor 02:25:56.690 --> 02:25:58.910 when threads launched then 02:25:58.910 --> 02:26:00.350 they would have had this AI business 02:26:00.730 --> 02:26:02.650 and they could have like integrated 02:26:02.650 --> 02:26:04.950 that and they could have had a chat 02:26:04.950 --> 02:26:07.070 GPT like data feed 02:26:07.070 --> 02:26:08.550 you know and then brought over 02:26:09.130 --> 02:26:10.870 over people from Twitter when they were 02:26:10.870 --> 02:26:12.110 leaving to Blue Sky and they were 02:26:12.110 --> 02:26:14.890 leaving to threads that didn't happen 02:26:14.890 --> 02:26:16.750 you know Elon managed 02:26:16.750 --> 02:26:18.670 to keep the users in 02:26:18.670 --> 02:26:19.870 Twitter for a large part 02:26:19.870 --> 02:26:22.010 and then he went and took 02:26:22.550 --> 02:26:23.510 that like 02:26:24.610 --> 02:26:25.090 fading 02:26:26.610 --> 02:26:28.130 social media advertising 02:26:28.130 --> 02:26:30.650 business like capital there was losing a lot of money 02:26:31.190 --> 02:26:32.470 right and he like 02:26:32.470 --> 02:26:34.650 massively downsized and such and such 02:26:34.650 --> 02:26:36.610 but the important thing was then he set up 02:26:36.610 --> 02:26:38.590 he set up an AI business and a lot 02:26:38.590 --> 02:26:40.890 of the founding team of XAI they came from Tesla 02:26:40.890 --> 02:26:42.130 so there was like 02:26:42.130 --> 02:26:43.590 a similar 02:26:43.590 --> 02:26:45.430 collapse in value while 02:26:45.430 --> 02:26:47.150 Twitter was going down 02:26:47.150 --> 02:26:50.370 that Tesla could have very easily 02:26:50.370 --> 02:26:51.510 gone out of business and because 02:26:52.190 --> 02:26:54.390 Tesla AI essentially XAI 02:26:54.390 --> 02:26:55.590 is now an independent company 02:26:57.650 --> 02:26:58.690 that reduces 02:26:58.690 --> 02:27:00.650 the need to continue to compete 02:27:00.650 --> 02:27:02.470 on this like AI front 02:27:03.070 --> 02:27:04.770 which is what they were doing 02:27:04.770 --> 02:27:06.530 you know in 2021-2022 02:27:06.530 --> 02:27:08.590 time frame they were making competitors to 02:27:08.590 --> 02:27:10.430 Nvidia GPUs and building $500 million 02:27:10.430 --> 02:27:12.810 you know supercomputers right and so they're not doing that 02:27:12.810 --> 02:27:14.750 anymore they're just focused on 02:27:14.750 --> 02:27:16.910 on the car and so the market like keeps 02:27:16.910 --> 02:27:18.930 that around it still once you know 02:27:18.930 --> 02:27:20.730 and they and he has real factories 02:27:20.730 --> 02:27:22.730 which in my view like that factory 02:27:22.730 --> 02:27:24.150 business is going to be really important 02:27:24.150 --> 02:27:26.510 from 2028 to 2032 02:27:26.510 --> 02:27:28.690 we're still in this like build the data 02:27:28.690 --> 02:27:30.530 centers like come up with the new reference 02:27:30.530 --> 02:27:32.710 architecture for data centers like without 02:27:32.710 --> 02:27:34.610 any intel in it 02:27:34.610 --> 02:27:36.330 right and 02:27:36.330 --> 02:27:38.690 it's Bitcoin style like micro 02:27:38.690 --> 02:27:39.950 strategy style 02:27:40.600 --> 02:27:42.850 dollar markets that are paying 02:27:42.850 --> 02:27:43.570 for all of that 02:27:44.490 --> 02:27:46.690 right and they have a benchmark to compare 02:27:46.690 --> 02:27:48.690 compare themselves against with 02:27:48.690 --> 02:27:49.770 with the mining facilities 02:27:50.650 --> 02:27:52.050 but by 02:27:52.420 --> 02:27:54.910 by the 2028 to 2032 02:27:54.910 --> 02:27:55.530 halving 02:27:56.520 --> 02:27:58.590 it's going to be really important to 02:27:58.590 --> 02:28:00.430 build to build 02:28:00.430 --> 02:28:02.530 and it's like you and you all have a site 02:28:02.530 --> 02:28:04.370 like this in Ohio that they've 02:28:05.010 --> 02:28:06.530 opened I think that's a it's 02:28:06.530 --> 02:28:08.350 a billion dollar you know like that 02:28:08.350 --> 02:28:10.270 he's building like autonomous 02:28:10.270 --> 02:28:12.470 drones and things whether his products like 02:28:12.470 --> 02:28:14.010 actually get ever get used for anything 02:28:14.010 --> 02:28:15.990 is another question but like 02:28:15.990 --> 02:28:18.230 you kind of it's kind of like the perfect company 02:28:18.230 --> 02:28:20.330 that like you can't tell if it's a video game like 02:28:20.330 --> 02:28:22.350 NFT thing where they're just like really 02:28:22.350 --> 02:28:23.930 big fanboys in military history 02:28:23.930 --> 02:28:26.370 and technology and that they don't actually like 02:28:26.370 --> 02:28:28.410 ever intend for any of their products to ever be used 02:28:28.410 --> 02:28:30.110 to anywhere and he's a cartoon character 02:28:31.610 --> 02:28:32.490 right so 02:28:32.490 --> 02:28:34.630 so some extent and so like 02:28:34.630 --> 02:28:36.490 Jason Lowry he's a little bit like that 02:28:37.210 --> 02:28:38.250 sort of like from 02:28:38.250 --> 02:28:40.470 that perspective if you if you like study 02:28:40.470 --> 02:28:42.230 if you kind of expose our information 02:28:42.230 --> 02:28:44.690 and you go listen to Jason Lowry 02:28:44.690 --> 02:28:46.410 you literally say realize 02:28:46.410 --> 02:28:47.990 he's talking about exactly the same thing 02:28:47.990 --> 02:28:51.170 except he's really saying like hey we need to use proof of work to secure like 02:28:51.170 --> 02:28:51.930 you know 02:28:51.930 --> 02:28:54.310 all the government agencies because 02:28:54.310 --> 02:28:56.250 they all run on like Oracle databases and 02:28:56.870 --> 02:28:58.390 and things and anybody can 02:28:58.390 --> 02:28:59.730 can can wander in there 02:29:00.410 --> 02:29:02.450 right and so there's a little bit a little bit of that 02:29:02.450 --> 02:29:04.030 going on going on with Doge 02:29:04.030 --> 02:29:05.930 what's going to be important once you get 02:29:05.930 --> 02:29:08.390 get to that next phase and you can think 02:29:08.390 --> 02:29:10.570 of that as like when Jensen like shows up 02:29:10.570 --> 02:29:11.730 with some robot and like 02:29:12.250 --> 02:29:13.970 Elon does is like Tesla Optimus thing 02:29:14.870 --> 02:29:16.170 well that technology 02:29:16.170 --> 02:29:18.170 doesn't really work yet but by 02:29:18.170 --> 02:29:19.470 2028 it will 02:29:20.390 --> 02:29:22.550 and what currently it won't just be like 02:29:22.550 --> 02:29:24.210 scaling out the data centers but every 02:29:24.210 --> 02:29:26.270 significant energy consumer 02:29:26.270 --> 02:29:28.210 every warehouse that has 02:29:28.210 --> 02:29:29.570 like a CNC machine in it 02:29:30.210 --> 02:29:32.110 that could have been mining Bitcoin right 02:29:33.190 --> 02:29:33.750 it 02:29:34.790 --> 02:29:36.250 it will be 02:29:36.250 --> 02:29:37.610 it will have like 02:29:37.610 --> 02:29:39.170 the AI Bitcoin 02:29:39.750 --> 02:29:41.630 CNC machine that 02:29:42.090 --> 02:29:44.190 that that knows how to keep working 02:29:44.190 --> 02:29:45.950 it knows how to just infinitely 02:29:45.950 --> 02:29:48.210 you know it's not like 02:29:48.210 --> 02:29:50.290 an ASIC that you figure out oh we found 02:29:50.290 --> 02:29:52.130 one person to send us an API query 02:29:52.130 --> 02:29:53.690 for some hash hash caches 02:29:53.690 --> 02:29:56.090 you know it's 1997 and then you 02:29:56.090 --> 02:29:57.950 spin it up for 12 seconds and then you turn it off 02:29:59.290 --> 02:30:00.290 right that's like 02:30:00.290 --> 02:30:01.990 the entire industrial 02:30:02.850 --> 02:30:03.250 economy 02:30:04.070 --> 02:30:05.870 is like well we got an order for some widgets 02:30:05.870 --> 02:30:08.090 and then like you turn the CNC machine 02:30:08.090 --> 02:30:09.890 on and like machine parts 02:30:09.890 --> 02:30:11.910 and then you like deliver it to guys like 02:30:11.910 --> 02:30:14.130 three minutes down the road right in the 02:30:14.130 --> 02:30:15.990 truck and 02:30:15.990 --> 02:30:18.190 the best people could come up with 02:30:18.190 --> 02:30:20.470 was 3D printers and there's like 02:30:20.470 --> 02:30:22.790 like one of the 02:30:23.470 --> 02:30:24.630 guys like he went to 02:30:24.630 --> 02:30:26.950 work at the New Zealand economy is very like 02:30:27.550 --> 02:30:28.390 globalized like 02:30:28.390 --> 02:30:30.730 you know first world so after 02:30:30.730 --> 02:30:32.150 working at the magical numbers company 02:30:33.870 --> 02:30:34.350 actually 02:30:34.350 --> 02:30:36.470 like a couple of people like one of them went to work at the 02:30:37.010 --> 02:30:38.450 superconducting space propulsion 02:30:38.450 --> 02:30:39.590 company and one of them worked 02:30:39.590 --> 02:30:42.430 at the titanium 3D printing company 02:30:42.430 --> 02:30:44.510 where they like 3D print 02:30:44.510 --> 02:30:46.170 parts that would otherwise 02:30:46.170 --> 02:30:47.910 you know previously have been machined 02:30:47.910 --> 02:30:49.770 but because New Zealand is such a small economy 02:30:49.770 --> 02:30:52.010 but they need some like very bespoke widget thing 02:30:52.010 --> 02:30:53.730 and they go 3D printed out of my 02:30:53.730 --> 02:30:55.410 titanium right 02:30:57.110 --> 02:30:57.990 rather than 02:30:57.990 --> 02:30:59.810 like you know so they can iterate 02:30:59.810 --> 02:31:01.930 that much more quickly and then 02:31:01.930 --> 02:31:03.890 well you know one of the ideas 02:31:03.890 --> 02:31:05.870 that we have is like well what else should 02:31:05.870 --> 02:31:07.490 you know like if we need to add value 02:31:07.490 --> 02:31:09.630 if we need to make the price floor of the starter kit 02:31:09.630 --> 02:31:10.510 go up 02:31:11.430 --> 02:31:13.690 well maybe we'll just put the price up on the website 02:31:13.690 --> 02:31:16.110 proportional to a titanium 3D 02:31:16.110 --> 02:31:18.050 printed case with your bit coin thing around it 02:31:18.050 --> 02:31:18.650 that we put on it 02:31:18.650 --> 02:31:21.630 so there's an open problem 02:31:21.630 --> 02:31:24.190 of not just 02:31:24.190 --> 02:31:26.050 like trying to keep it as 02:31:26.050 --> 02:31:28.130 as commodity and pure as possible 02:31:28.130 --> 02:31:30.150 so physically aside from 02:31:30.150 --> 02:31:32.070 putting the best bits that we can 02:31:32.070 --> 02:31:33.730 figure out by the time that everybody 02:31:33.730 --> 02:31:34.670 demands that we 02:31:37.570 --> 02:31:39.250 they take them off our hands 02:31:39.250 --> 02:31:41.390 and there's not that demand for it at the moment 02:31:41.390 --> 02:31:43.270 people are still buying in 02:31:44.770 --> 02:31:45.410 there's that 02:31:45.410 --> 02:31:46.630 but there's 02:31:47.090 --> 02:31:48.950 so that's sort of like the 02:31:48.950 --> 02:31:51.310 stable lens of it 02:31:51.310 --> 02:31:53.230 that you're really sort of like looking at as 02:31:53.230 --> 02:31:55.430 its base how you view a Mac Mini today 02:31:55.430 --> 02:31:56.830 and how you value a Mac Mini today 02:31:56.830 --> 02:31:59.070 right now people don't know 02:31:59.070 --> 02:32:01.490 how to value like a 218 02:32:01.490 --> 02:32:03.430 starter kit because it's completely undefined 02:32:03.430 --> 02:32:05.250 it does give you 02:32:05.250 --> 02:32:07.330 the feeling of like well I own 02:32:07.330 --> 02:32:09.250 a 218 starter kit in New Zealand which 02:32:09.250 --> 02:32:10.950 is a Mac Mini so it 02:32:10.950 --> 02:32:12.730 constrains my search of what could 02:32:12.730 --> 02:32:14.890 a 218 starter kit be to things 02:32:14.890 --> 02:32:16.490 that Mac Minis could potentially be 02:32:16.490 --> 02:32:18.930 and you know a computer is still 02:32:18.930 --> 02:32:20.890 relatively universal in 02:32:20.890 --> 02:32:22.830 the range and scope of the things that it can do 02:32:22.830 --> 02:32:24.630 but if you understand that like well 02:32:24.630 --> 02:32:26.130 you know hundreds of people are 02:32:26.130 --> 02:32:28.870 ordering these things then not just like 02:32:28.870 --> 02:32:30.630 are you exposed to certain like 02:32:30.630 --> 02:32:32.910 information from us like 02:32:32.910 --> 02:32:34.830 on Twitter but we also 02:32:34.830 --> 02:32:36.770 have like a direct relationship with you 02:32:36.770 --> 02:32:38.850 which is also via the trust of the 02:32:38.850 --> 02:32:40.830 Apple brand right in the same way that 02:32:40.830 --> 02:32:42.610 well you can interact with our people 02:32:42.610 --> 02:32:44.730 on our social network without 02:32:44.730 --> 02:32:46.450 us needing to run a social network 02:32:46.450 --> 02:32:47.870 with database and everything 02:32:48.530 --> 02:32:50.110 an algorithm like Elon 02:32:50.110 --> 02:32:52.110 just does that and we pay him for it 02:32:53.530 --> 02:32:54.630 but there is 02:32:54.630 --> 02:32:56.990 the case where 02:32:56.990 --> 02:32:58.610 like imagine that we can't get 02:32:58.610 --> 02:33:01.010 Mac Minis or like people really need them right now 02:33:01.010 --> 02:33:01.950 or like how do we 02:33:01.950 --> 02:33:04.970 that people start to have a non-zero 02:33:04.970 --> 02:33:06.650 price for like 02:33:06.650 --> 02:33:07.850 what they would value 02:33:08.420 --> 02:33:09.190 and node 02:33:10.420 --> 02:33:11.810 in our network 02:33:11.810 --> 02:33:14.430 but that we may still need to 02:33:14.430 --> 02:33:16.350 we may still be working on 02:33:18.230 --> 02:33:20.490 building that up to the point that 02:33:20.490 --> 02:33:22.210 is what we really want it so there's 02:33:22.210 --> 02:33:23.830 a buffer that needs to be made 02:33:24.600 --> 02:33:26.510 potentially we might have 02:33:26.510 --> 02:33:28.370 to go okay we're going to put a 02:33:28.370 --> 02:33:29.850 gold bar in the box 02:33:30.630 --> 02:33:32.070 right if the 02:33:32.650 --> 02:33:34.330 base price 02:33:35.810 --> 02:33:36.650 of that 02:33:36.650 --> 02:33:38.570 kit gets so speculative 02:33:38.570 --> 02:33:40.510 right so imagine like somebody 02:33:40.510 --> 02:33:42.450 comes and puts a $10 million order in 02:33:42.450 --> 02:33:43.810 and I can't go buy $10 million 02:33:44.130 --> 02:33:46.210 Apple things or that's confusing or what not 02:33:46.210 --> 02:33:48.410 then maybe we go 02:33:48.410 --> 02:33:50.090 then we have the Michael Saylor 02:33:50.090 --> 02:33:52.210 problem of like where do we go 02:33:52.210 --> 02:33:53.710 store our $10 million while we're waiting 02:33:53.710 --> 02:33:55.630 for our Apple order to come through right 02:33:56.250 --> 02:33:58.170 and if we can do 02:33:58.170 --> 02:33:59.930 that while containing it 02:33:59.930 --> 02:34:02.230 in the commodity then that same 02:34:02.230 --> 02:34:04.170 idea that we started with in 02:34:04.170 --> 02:34:06.330 2020 about how do you get a non-zero 02:34:06.330 --> 02:34:07.090 price for data 02:34:08.170 --> 02:34:10.230 well a computer you know if it 02:34:10.230 --> 02:34:12.110 can store any data in it 02:34:12.110 --> 02:34:14.110 so if you have a bunch of computers 02:34:14.110 --> 02:34:16.290 and they're not you know somebody isn't 02:34:16.290 --> 02:34:18.070 saying hey I'll buy that computer with 02:34:18.070 --> 02:34:20.190 something on it off of you like imagine 02:34:20.190 --> 02:34:22.150 it's got Satoshi's private key well 02:34:22.150 --> 02:34:24.130 then it's not the price of the computer is it 02:34:24.130 --> 02:34:25.610 it's the value of the private key 02:34:26.030 --> 02:34:28.130 right and the private key can sign 02:34:28.130 --> 02:34:30.310 a message so if you had a computer 02:34:30.310 --> 02:34:32.090 that was signing a message to say it's a 02:34:32.090 --> 02:34:33.970 such and such Bitcoin wallet then you're probably 02:34:33.970 --> 02:34:36.130 gonna like try to get access to that 02:34:36.130 --> 02:34:38.250 thing you know ideally legally right 02:34:39.250 --> 02:34:40.550 and the same 02:34:40.550 --> 02:34:42.390 psychology existed this like physical 02:34:42.390 --> 02:34:44.370 Bitcoin okay so 02:34:44.370 --> 02:34:46.810 I have one last question because I know 02:34:46.810 --> 02:34:48.430 you got to get going you ready 02:34:48.430 --> 02:34:50.150 and it follows right where you were saying 02:34:50.150 --> 02:34:52.210 I'm sorry I'm sorry for cutting off 02:34:52.210 --> 02:34:53.850 were you about to say something 02:34:53.850 --> 02:34:56.290 I was just gonna say that the same thing 02:34:56.290 --> 02:34:57.850 exists for this physical Bitcoin level 02:34:57.850 --> 02:35:00.010 so if it's so not 02:35:00.010 --> 02:35:02.110 just like a tweet a tweets 02:35:02.110 --> 02:35:03.190 worth of information 02:35:03.810 --> 02:35:06.010 right that maybe is worth like two dollars or something 02:35:06.010 --> 02:35:07.870 and then you have the problem of like dealing with 02:35:07.870 --> 02:35:09.790 the mass production of tweets 02:35:09.790 --> 02:35:11.690 problem the mass production 02:35:11.690 --> 02:35:13.830 of a computer that 02:35:13.830 --> 02:35:15.810 helps you do what those twenty one eight people on 02:35:15.810 --> 02:35:17.690 three on Twitter do right 02:35:18.390 --> 02:35:20.190 that is much more stable 02:35:20.190 --> 02:35:22.250 and grounded it's bounded so it doesn't 02:35:22.250 --> 02:35:24.310 have the same computational complexity that 02:35:24.310 --> 02:35:26.030 like drowned me 02:35:26.030 --> 02:35:28.110 before it helps 02:35:28.110 --> 02:35:30.050 to give you a way 02:35:30.050 --> 02:35:31.970 to buy into something 02:35:31.970 --> 02:35:34.170 speculative without the box 02:35:34.170 --> 02:35:36.230 you know without the can of worms all being open 02:35:36.230 --> 02:35:38.150 and you and you dealing with with looking 02:35:38.150 --> 02:35:40.070 directly at that before 02:35:40.070 --> 02:35:41.670 before it's done right 02:35:41.670 --> 02:35:44.130 now if that hype got 02:35:44.130 --> 02:35:46.170 really really big which I don't 02:35:46.170 --> 02:35:47.730 think is I don't expect at all 02:35:47.730 --> 02:35:49.390 but logically in the 02:35:49.390 --> 02:35:52.050 in the exercise this is 02:35:52.050 --> 02:35:53.650 like part of what to think about 02:35:53.650 --> 02:35:55.610 is like well there might come 02:35:55.610 --> 02:35:57.270 a situation where 02:35:57.270 --> 02:35:59.170 the market really wants 02:35:59.170 --> 02:36:01.610 a the buy-in 02:36:01.610 --> 02:36:03.170 price for a Mac Mini 02:36:03.170 --> 02:36:05.490 for and for a twenty one eight node 02:36:05.490 --> 02:36:07.690 to be a hundred thousand dollars 02:36:08.310 --> 02:36:08.910 right 02:36:09.610 --> 02:36:11.710 in which case we would need to 02:36:11.710 --> 02:36:13.490 configure a 02:36:13.490 --> 02:36:15.510 suit of like 02:36:15.510 --> 02:36:17.470 there would be some shift in the understanding 02:36:17.470 --> 02:36:19.450 of what it is that 02:36:19.450 --> 02:36:21.650 that would proportionally 02:36:21.650 --> 02:36:23.850 want that the capital 02:36:23.850 --> 02:36:25.530 that it would still do the same thing 02:36:25.530 --> 02:36:26.950 but that the physical 02:36:28.010 --> 02:36:28.490 physical 02:36:29.650 --> 02:36:31.570 products that's representative of that 02:36:31.570 --> 02:36:32.450 of that price 02:36:33.130 --> 02:36:35.310 would be proportionate 02:36:35.310 --> 02:36:36.830 so you have a lot of risk 02:36:36.830 --> 02:36:39.250 like if and all these 02:36:39.250 --> 02:36:41.710 AI tokens they have this sort of like 02:36:41.710 --> 02:36:43.630 net asset value sort of 02:36:43.630 --> 02:36:45.590 like speculative things so they'll hold some 02:36:45.590 --> 02:36:47.490 Salanas and then the thing will be like 02:36:47.490 --> 02:36:49.490 worth twenty million dollars but they'll only have 02:36:49.490 --> 02:36:50.670 five hundred thousand of Salanas 02:36:50.670 --> 02:36:53.350 so they have this issue of 02:36:53.350 --> 02:36:55.530 if that was happening to us and we don't have a token 02:36:55.530 --> 02:36:57.470 so it doesn't I just sell it 02:36:57.470 --> 02:36:59.430 at the raw asset value and it's an 02:36:59.430 --> 02:37:00.970 asset it's not a financial 02:37:00.970 --> 02:37:03.750 asset that's traded and speculative and has all this 02:37:03.750 --> 02:37:05.410 it's a product that 02:37:05.410 --> 02:37:07.350 that you're buying because it's going to come with our 02:37:07.350 --> 02:37:08.390 software on right 02:37:09.730 --> 02:37:11.450 but without us going out 02:37:11.450 --> 02:37:12.730 there and like 02:37:14.590 --> 02:37:15.550 advertising potential 02:37:15.550 --> 02:37:17.490 and actually that would reduce the 02:37:18.090 --> 02:37:19.930 reduce the value of it 02:37:19.930 --> 02:37:21.670 because if it's a computer can do anything 02:37:21.670 --> 02:37:23.710 and so it's really about the marketing exercise 02:37:23.710 --> 02:37:25.610 and could you potentially just ship it 02:37:25.610 --> 02:37:27.650 at its 1099 New Zealand 02:37:27.650 --> 02:37:29.430 price it's 02:37:29.430 --> 02:37:31.070 it's really an exercise about 02:37:31.070 --> 02:37:33.730 hey we just want to have the experience of buying a Mac mini 02:37:33.730 --> 02:37:35.170 from you right and then 02:37:35.170 --> 02:37:37.250 but then the extra cost is this delay 02:37:37.250 --> 02:37:39.090 for when that actually gets shipped 02:37:39.090 --> 02:37:41.650 now if I just people just bought Mac minis from me 02:37:41.650 --> 02:37:43.450 and then I shipped them from New Zealand and then 02:37:43.450 --> 02:37:45.620 it lost me money like for all the overheads 02:37:45.620 --> 02:37:47.280 that wouldn't be a very good business 02:37:47.280 --> 02:37:49.720 so we're in the business of this very sort of unique thing 02:37:49.720 --> 02:37:51.500 where only if you want to do that twenty one eight 02:37:51.500 --> 02:37:53.060 thing otherwise you know 02:37:53.060 --> 02:37:55.520 go buy Apple by one from 02:37:55.520 --> 02:37:57.520 the Apple store because that will also 02:37:57.520 --> 02:37:59.580 give you the physical products and you can do 02:37:59.580 --> 02:38:01.440 this exercise with everybody else too 02:38:01.440 --> 02:38:03.080 right so there is a 02:38:03.080 --> 02:38:04.080 so there is a 02:38:05.680 --> 02:38:07.620 chance in the same way that a micro strategy 02:38:07.620 --> 02:38:09.600 share is like 02:38:09.600 --> 02:38:11.360 $250,000 compared to a Bitcoin 02:38:12.320 --> 02:38:13.560 right what is 02:38:13.560 --> 02:38:14.460 that premium 02:38:16.220 --> 02:38:17.220 that they 02:38:17.220 --> 02:38:19.580 and obviously there is a premium there part of 02:38:19.580 --> 02:38:21.480 it is like the management so it's like 02:38:21.480 --> 02:38:23.520 the key wallet thing that I was 02:38:23.520 --> 02:38:25.460 talking about with him before I actually think his 02:38:25.460 --> 02:38:26.640 coins are managed by Coinbase 02:38:27.520 --> 02:38:29.680 but it's the accessibility 02:38:29.680 --> 02:38:31.760 of that from your pension fund 02:38:31.760 --> 02:38:33.420 in the US because you can't buy Bitcoins 02:38:33.420 --> 02:38:35.680 from your pension fund so there is a suitable 02:38:35.680 --> 02:38:37.420 premium there in an actual service 02:38:37.420 --> 02:38:39.400 they're delivering and if he 02:38:39.400 --> 02:38:41.620 and he's every day that he gets on 02:38:41.620 --> 02:38:43.640 he's like trying to explain it right similar 02:38:43.640 --> 02:38:45.400 to this similar to this conversation 02:38:46.660 --> 02:38:47.680 is that he has a 02:38:47.680 --> 02:38:49.680 product that he's selling where there is 02:38:49.680 --> 02:38:51.740 some premium and some work and some added 02:38:51.740 --> 02:38:53.900 value that he's putting into it but he 02:38:53.900 --> 02:38:55.580 doesn't know what 02:38:55.580 --> 02:38:57.160 that value should be priced at 02:38:57.840 --> 02:38:59.600 right so he's just 02:38:59.600 --> 02:39:01.500 acting on this like short-term thing 02:39:01.500 --> 02:39:03.880 which is like yeah but the Bitcoins are underpriced 02:39:03.880 --> 02:39:05.700 right which is the subsidy thing 02:39:05.700 --> 02:39:07.380 of in general but at some point 02:39:07.380 --> 02:39:09.720 the price then that that prediction 02:39:09.720 --> 02:39:11.880 becomes true and now you have a dilemma 02:39:11.880 --> 02:39:13.060 which is you have to sell your Bitcoins 02:39:13.580 --> 02:39:15.560 and then you're just buying back in which he does 02:39:15.560 --> 02:39:17.400 like right so his cost of 02:39:17.400 --> 02:39:19.260 his average cost of Bitcoins go there 02:39:19.260 --> 02:39:21.620 Bitcoin miners are doing this now too 02:39:21.620 --> 02:39:23.640 they've stopped building new capacity 02:39:23.640 --> 02:39:25.900 and they're just buying Bitcoins from the market 02:39:25.900 --> 02:39:27.360 so there are no new 02:39:27.920 --> 02:39:29.840 large-scale facilities that are being 02:39:29.840 --> 02:39:31.900 developed and that's why I think 02:39:31.900 --> 02:39:33.940 that this Japanese money is coming 02:39:35.520 --> 02:39:37.040 but we have a little 02:39:37.040 --> 02:39:39.120 micro version of that and that we 02:39:39.860 --> 02:39:40.260 don't 02:39:40.260 --> 02:39:43.080 like it's not paid 02:39:43.080 --> 02:39:45.060 for by it's not a subsidy 02:39:45.060 --> 02:39:46.820 right so there's no speculative 02:39:46.820 --> 02:39:49.020 value like hey we can make X amount of dollars 02:39:49.020 --> 02:39:50.300 if we go and get a bunch of energy 02:39:50.300 --> 02:39:53.180 and borrow a bunch of money and then 02:39:53.180 --> 02:39:55.060 like go buy ASICs and go buy Bitcoins 02:39:55.060 --> 02:39:57.140 for a couple of years right there isn't 02:39:57.140 --> 02:39:59.040 any of that what I'm 02:39:59.660 --> 02:40:01.140 the role I'm also doing is like 02:40:01.140 --> 02:40:02.700 I'm also being a merchant 02:40:03.640 --> 02:40:05.120 so like great there 02:40:05.120 --> 02:40:06.980 is now something that you can buy 02:40:06.980 --> 02:40:09.120 you can buy a physical Bitcoin and you could buy 02:40:09.120 --> 02:40:11.220 physical Bitcoins remember and like way 02:40:11.220 --> 02:40:13.200 back when and that you could buy a coin 02:40:13.200 --> 02:40:15.120 thing yeah but you can trust them 02:40:15.120 --> 02:40:16.660 you can trust them so 02:40:16.660 --> 02:40:19.000 there is this like once you move 02:40:19.000 --> 02:40:21.140 to this post subsidy model where 02:40:21.140 --> 02:40:22.820 the information is much more valuable 02:40:22.820 --> 02:40:25.060 and starts to be and if you know how to 02:40:25.060 --> 02:40:26.860 get at that with the blockchain 02:40:28.060 --> 02:40:29.540 then it's the capabilities 02:40:29.540 --> 02:40:31.320 of the system no different 02:40:31.320 --> 02:40:33.220 to how Jensen 02:40:33.220 --> 02:40:34.740 or how you know 02:40:35.460 --> 02:40:37.000 Larry Ellison or Elon 02:40:37.000 --> 02:40:39.640 or Zuck are doing the calculations 02:40:39.640 --> 02:40:41.280 on like well how big 02:40:41.280 --> 02:40:43.320 of a model can I train on 02:40:43.320 --> 02:40:44.640 these particular chips 02:40:45.090 --> 02:40:47.380 and the exact same conversation 02:40:47.380 --> 02:40:49.200 is happening with 02:40:49.200 --> 02:40:50.640 Nvidia chips that 02:40:51.220 --> 02:40:53.500 systems that are no bigger 02:40:53.500 --> 02:40:55.640 than a Mac mini 02:40:55.640 --> 02:40:57.480 but actually it's a Mac mini 02:40:57.480 --> 02:40:58.820 so actually it's quite sizable 02:40:58.820 --> 02:41:00.720 but there's also actual 02:41:04.320 --> 02:41:04.800 people 02:41:04.800 --> 02:41:06.120 building Mac mini clusters 02:41:06.120 --> 02:41:07.680 you know a couple of years 02:41:07.680 --> 02:41:09.600 after we started doing it 02:41:09.600 --> 02:41:10.820 and then like you know it went quaint 02:41:10.820 --> 02:41:12.020 didn't tell anybody about it 02:41:13.260 --> 02:41:14.620 because it was like 02:41:15.160 --> 02:41:17.020 valuable information at the time 02:41:17.760 --> 02:41:18.840 now we're in a market 02:41:18.840 --> 02:41:20.980 which is like hey if we can coax 02:41:20.980 --> 02:41:22.640 and convince everybody to adopt 02:41:22.640 --> 02:41:24.300 this business model and move to this 02:41:24.300 --> 02:41:27.060 node type 02:41:28.360 --> 02:41:29.680 then a lot of that 02:41:29.680 --> 02:41:31.640 speculative value and risk that's like 02:41:31.640 --> 02:41:32.840 overpriced in Nvidia 02:41:33.680 --> 02:41:35.340 you see these huge queues 02:41:35.340 --> 02:41:37.180 of people going to the Nvidia GTC conference 02:41:37.180 --> 02:41:39.040 well in 2028 02:41:39.040 --> 02:41:40.500 they will be going to 02:41:40.500 --> 02:41:42.880 the like bit main 02:41:43.370 --> 02:41:44.520 Nvidia hybrid 02:41:44.520 --> 02:41:47.660 of the GPU AI ASIC 02:41:47.660 --> 02:41:48.600 thing right 02:41:48.600 --> 02:41:51.520 which in my view is not going to look 02:41:51.520 --> 02:41:52.900 very different to 02:41:53.390 --> 02:41:55.160 a Mac mini right because 02:41:55.160 --> 02:41:57.780 it has these existing performance properties 02:41:57.780 --> 02:41:58.120 of 02:41:59.440 --> 02:42:01.880 what people are trying to get at when they do it in the data center 02:42:01.880 --> 02:42:03.920 so that's this thing 02:42:03.920 --> 02:42:05.040 there might be 02:42:05.040 --> 02:42:06.900 a case where 02:42:07.540 --> 02:42:08.560 the speculators 02:42:11.800 --> 02:42:13.200 get too much of 02:42:13.200 --> 02:42:15.960 side information gain from us and they 02:42:16.660 --> 02:42:17.680 hear about the 02:42:17.680 --> 02:42:19.500 2028 thing again and they want to go 02:42:19.500 --> 02:42:20.600 and turn it into something 02:42:21.660 --> 02:42:23.540 in order for that not to turn into 02:42:23.540 --> 02:42:25.240 like sort of like 02:42:25.240 --> 02:42:27.740 the speculative vehicle that I had before 02:42:27.740 --> 02:42:29.400 where we hire people and we go out 02:42:29.400 --> 02:42:30.900 and sort of like rationally try to 02:42:30.900 --> 02:42:32.720 do that like we're a Silicon Valley company 02:42:33.220 --> 02:42:35.340 right and I pivoted off that business 02:42:35.340 --> 02:42:37.100 model entirely onto the nodes business 02:42:38.000 --> 02:42:39.920 if that started coming back again 02:42:39.920 --> 02:42:41.180 I like 02:42:41.180 --> 02:42:43.440 first of all hey we did that business 02:42:43.440 --> 02:42:44.880 and nobody wanted it and we didn't get 02:42:44.880 --> 02:42:47.120 we didn't get funded we ran out of money and so like 02:42:47.120 --> 02:42:48.880 we went off so I'm doing this now instead 02:42:48.880 --> 02:42:51.240 right there is a potential that 02:42:51.240 --> 02:42:52.960 if that got too big then 02:42:52.960 --> 02:42:55.060 I would need a way to not just have 02:42:55.060 --> 02:42:57.000 like the base thing like think of it 02:42:57.000 --> 02:42:58.900 like the micro strategy the Bitcoin part 02:42:58.900 --> 02:43:00.840 of the micro strategy but if you had all the 02:43:00.840 --> 02:43:03.060 speculative risky capital and like some 02:43:03.060 --> 02:43:04.140 potential premium 02:43:04.580 --> 02:43:06.780 which is that if I needed to sell if I could 02:43:06.780 --> 02:43:09.020 only deal with as just me like 02:43:09.020 --> 02:43:10.360 nodes in the hundreds 02:43:11.020 --> 02:43:12.680 if suddenly everyone wants like 02:43:12.680 --> 02:43:14.500 250,000 if I have 02:43:14.500 --> 02:43:16.980 if there's like 250,000 people 02:43:16.980 --> 02:43:18.740 that want to come and get it I don't have the capacity 02:43:18.740 --> 02:43:21.200 to subsidize 02:43:21.200 --> 02:43:23.260 it to to that extent right because I sell 02:43:23.260 --> 02:43:24.200 all these kits at cost 02:43:25.240 --> 02:43:27.200 they people pay for it in the time 02:43:27.200 --> 02:43:29.120 that they're willing to wait to you know 02:43:29.120 --> 02:43:31.140 but you can a couple of you know 02:43:31.140 --> 02:43:33.020 not too angry people but some people that 02:43:33.020 --> 02:43:35.080 basically regretted their decision after 12 02:43:35.080 --> 02:43:37.060 minutes you know they're like hey I did that 02:43:37.060 --> 02:43:38.620 thing but can you just give me a refund 02:43:39.620 --> 02:43:40.920 and we just process that 02:43:40.920 --> 02:43:42.680 and so there's an exercise 02:43:42.680 --> 02:43:45.080 and being in the club of like holding on to 02:43:45.080 --> 02:43:46.540 this all this potential energy 02:43:47.180 --> 02:43:49.060 work on it collectively at some 02:43:49.060 --> 02:43:51.540 point ideally it's just that 02:43:51.540 --> 02:43:53.280 people demand the thing and it's ready 02:43:53.280 --> 02:43:55.180 and we can and at that moment 02:43:55.180 --> 02:43:56.740 it's like when the Bitcoin miners 02:43:56.740 --> 02:43:59.340 turn off because there's a storm 02:43:59.340 --> 02:44:01.100 going there's a blizzard going through Texas 02:44:01.100 --> 02:44:03.200 and it's more profitable to sell 02:44:03.200 --> 02:44:04.700 electricity to the people in Texas 02:44:04.700 --> 02:44:07.060 than it is to buy all the electricity 02:44:07.060 --> 02:44:08.500 and sell it to Bitcoin 02:44:08.960 --> 02:44:09.260 right 02:44:12.000 --> 02:44:14.400 if there is a speculative 02:44:15.240 --> 02:44:17.500 thing on on this exercise 02:44:17.500 --> 02:44:19.660 then we might have a risk of 02:44:19.660 --> 02:44:21.420 like needing to upgrade the computer 02:44:21.420 --> 02:44:23.420 for example and in my 02:44:23.420 --> 02:44:25.280 view every if that happened 02:44:25.280 --> 02:44:27.300 it would dilute the core value proposition 02:44:27.300 --> 02:44:29.680 because the Mac money is already the best 02:44:29.680 --> 02:44:30.720 like 02:44:31.340 --> 02:44:33.520 performance per dollar per watt 02:44:33.520 --> 02:44:35.700 out of out of any 02:44:35.700 --> 02:44:37.100 products in the industry 02:44:37.100 --> 02:44:39.780 and I did that calculation like on the M1s 02:44:39.780 --> 02:44:40.580 and M2s 02:44:40.580 --> 02:44:43.420 and now we have the M4 out 02:44:43.420 --> 02:44:45.300 so I don't think that I think the 02:44:45.300 --> 02:44:47.160 Nvidia has a chance that they could make something 02:44:47.160 --> 02:44:49.140 they could catch up and make something competitive 02:44:49.900 --> 02:44:51.180 by the next halving 02:44:51.760 --> 02:44:53.380 and like by when the next 02:44:53.380 --> 02:44:55.320 halving comes along I'll reassess it completely 02:44:55.320 --> 02:44:57.240 like hopefully there'll be a startup that makes 02:44:57.240 --> 02:44:59.060 this stuff like open 02:44:59.060 --> 02:45:01.480 and runs Linux and everything and not macOS 02:45:01.480 --> 02:45:03.180 and a bunch of like proprietary drivers 02:45:04.580 --> 02:45:05.100 but 02:45:06.220 --> 02:45:07.460 but I'm making 02:45:07.460 --> 02:45:09.440 that commitment we'll do that and we'll support that 02:45:09.440 --> 02:45:10.800 for gen one of the system 02:45:11.400 --> 02:45:13.440 and then when the second gen comes along 02:45:13.440 --> 02:45:15.480 think of it like going from PS1 to PS2 02:45:16.100 --> 02:45:17.520 then we'll look at well 02:45:17.520 --> 02:45:18.940 is there something that is more 02:45:18.940 --> 02:45:20.840 Mac mini than the Mac mini 02:45:21.420 --> 02:45:22.820 right in terms of like 02:45:22.820 --> 02:45:24.120 in a 02:45:26.040 --> 02:45:27.340 suitable number of properties 02:45:27.340 --> 02:45:29.200 that it's better like it's shrunk even more 02:45:30.900 --> 02:45:31.420 then 02:45:31.420 --> 02:45:33.540 yeah if that's something that Microsoft 02:45:33.540 --> 02:45:35.280 and Qualcomm or Intel 02:45:35.280 --> 02:45:37.500 or somebody do you know I'll just do 02:45:37.500 --> 02:45:39.460 that analysis and that will just 02:45:39.460 --> 02:45:41.500 have taken all the mimetic power 02:45:41.500 --> 02:45:43.520 probably if it does it but the other thing about 02:45:43.520 --> 02:45:45.620 Apple is that you know they're a long 02:45:45.620 --> 02:45:46.040 term 02:45:47.320 --> 02:45:49.480 they're older than Bitcoin right like they've been 02:45:50.040 --> 02:45:51.580 your macOS is older than Bitcoin 02:45:52.300 --> 02:45:53.640 so there's a certain amount 02:45:53.640 --> 02:45:55.540 of like risk that you have to take into account 02:45:55.540 --> 02:45:57.520 for like well just because something 02:45:57.520 --> 02:45:59.720 might be shiny and new and competitive on some 02:45:59.720 --> 02:46:01.640 specs today doesn't mean 02:46:01.640 --> 02:46:03.700 that like it's not going to collapse 02:46:03.700 --> 02:46:05.540 and value after five minutes or that your 02:46:05.540 --> 02:46:07.600 grandma is going to you know know how to use 02:46:07.600 --> 02:46:08.980 it to to sell her emails 02:46:08.980 --> 02:46:10.580 it's essentially emails 02:46:10.580 --> 02:46:13.160 so like that's 02:46:13.160 --> 02:46:14.680 the view that I take into it's like 02:46:14.680 --> 02:46:17.020 the most you know the best 02:46:17.020 --> 02:46:18.420 the most computer per dollar 02:46:19.480 --> 02:46:21.440 and as part of that 02:46:21.440 --> 02:46:23.100 use case you know 02:46:23.100 --> 02:46:24.840 that set of use cases is essentially 02:46:24.840 --> 02:46:27.180 is it also the best thing to 02:46:27.180 --> 02:46:28.940 to use to work on Bitcoin 02:46:28.940 --> 02:46:31.320 and my view today like yep if like 02:46:31.320 --> 02:46:32.760 if you have bitcoins 02:46:32.760 --> 02:46:35.300 and you spend your bitcoins 02:46:35.300 --> 02:46:36.400 on buying an Apple Mac mini 02:46:36.400 --> 02:46:38.460 you will probably do fine 02:46:38.460 --> 02:46:40.320 if you somebody 02:46:40.320 --> 02:46:42.380 who is going to you know spend 02:46:42.380 --> 02:46:44.420 your bitcoins like buying a really expensive 02:46:44.420 --> 02:46:46.460 top of the line 500 gig 02:46:46.460 --> 02:46:48.580 Apple computer and we will also 02:46:48.580 --> 02:46:50.420 show those on the timeline so that 02:46:50.420 --> 02:46:52.440 people can figure out you know the 02:46:52.440 --> 02:46:53.520 investments that they want to make 02:46:55.840 --> 02:46:56.400 versus 02:46:56.400 --> 02:46:58.420 just you know saving 02:46:58.420 --> 02:47:00.380 your money and 02:47:00.380 --> 02:47:02.040 and then getting it at this level 02:47:02.040 --> 02:47:02.980 then 02:47:02.980 --> 02:47:03.340 um 02:47:04.720 --> 02:47:06.820 yep there's a guy in the moment 02:47:06.820 --> 02:47:07.960 who's um 02:47:07.960 --> 02:47:09.240 in Brazil 02:47:09.900 --> 02:47:11.940 he may have seen some of these tweets the other day 02:47:11.940 --> 02:47:14.440 who um he's uh apparently 02:47:14.980 --> 02:47:15.820 he's um 02:47:15.820 --> 02:47:18.760 I think he's already he's just taken delivery 02:47:18.760 --> 02:47:21.040 of 256 M4 Mac minis 02:47:21.040 --> 02:47:21.960 um 02:47:21.960 --> 02:47:24.220 and um he uh 02:47:24.220 --> 02:47:26.440 but the rumor is that he's trying to build a cluster 02:47:26.440 --> 02:47:27.640 of 1024 02:47:28.700 --> 02:47:30.300 so I'm following along on that 02:47:30.300 --> 02:47:32.100 you know closely um 02:47:32.100 --> 02:47:33.980 there's some 21a8 sort of adjacent 02:47:33.980 --> 02:47:35.840 aware people behind the scenes 02:47:35.840 --> 02:47:37.500 who I think have prodded him to do that 02:47:37.960 --> 02:47:39.880 um but he did the calculation himself 02:47:39.880 --> 02:47:41.720 for his own project which is um 02:47:41.720 --> 02:47:43.800 also sort of like AI and crypto adjacent 02:47:43.800 --> 02:47:45.400 kind of like a knock chain thing 02:47:45.400 --> 02:47:47.460 like the knock chain guys they also sort of 02:47:47.460 --> 02:47:48.900 if you ever go ask the knock chain guys 02:47:48.900 --> 02:47:50.600 what hardware should I be using the knock chain 02:47:50.600 --> 02:47:51.940 they will just tell you a Mac mini 02:47:51.940 --> 02:47:53.340 because it is the 02:47:53.340 --> 02:47:56.220 it is this kind of like standard answer 02:47:56.220 --> 02:47:58.380 um for the for these types 02:47:58.380 --> 02:47:59.860 types of tasks and otherwise like 02:47:59.860 --> 02:48:02.360 when it's general purpose you don't really know what it's going to be 02:48:02.360 --> 02:48:04.180 used for right so although 02:48:04.180 --> 02:48:06.240 there are specific recommendations you can make 02:48:06.240 --> 02:48:08.340 the language models language models like 02:48:08.340 --> 02:48:09.640 very limited like 02:48:10.220 --> 02:48:12.300 it's only one type of thing that you can use 02:48:12.300 --> 02:48:14.620 to run a GPU and like for example 02:48:14.620 --> 02:48:16.180 uh 100,000 02:48:16.180 --> 02:48:18.320 server with like no display 02:48:18.320 --> 02:48:20.340 ports it's not going to be very good 02:48:20.340 --> 02:48:22.140 if you want to like then close down 02:48:22.140 --> 02:48:24.240 the AI program and then run halo on it 02:48:24.240 --> 02:48:26.300 you know like play a game on it because suddenly 02:48:26.300 --> 02:48:28.300 you know it's in some data center 02:48:28.300 --> 02:48:29.540 somewhere and you don't have 02:48:29.540 --> 02:48:32.260 you don't have Xbox controllers 02:48:32.260 --> 02:48:34.300 and you don't have screens that can be plugged into it 02:48:34.300 --> 02:48:36.600 and whatnot right and if you try to move that to your house 02:48:36.600 --> 02:48:38.440 it's going to use like 100 kilowatts 02:48:39.440 --> 02:48:40.920 all right so let me ask you a question 02:48:40.920 --> 02:48:42.680 just the kind of bring things down 02:48:42.680 --> 02:48:44.580 for the audience so essentially 02:48:45.200 --> 02:48:45.640 um 02:48:46.640 --> 02:48:48.140 21E8 is a bitcoin 02:48:48.140 --> 02:48:50.440 node it's a bitcoin meta node 02:48:50.440 --> 02:48:52.380 that applies to bitcoin 02:48:53.340 --> 02:48:54.440 is that correct 02:48:54.440 --> 02:48:55.900 and it's also what it might be 02:48:55.900 --> 02:48:58.440 but in a practical sense 02:48:59.140 --> 02:49:00.380 there's lots of different answers 02:49:00.380 --> 02:49:02.420 for like what like different forms it can take 02:49:02.420 --> 02:49:04.040 the issue is that that speculation 02:49:04.040 --> 02:49:06.280 that was like what we solved 02:49:06.280 --> 02:49:08.660 by the with this physical bitcoin concept 02:49:09.520 --> 02:49:10.360 right now 02:49:10.360 --> 02:49:12.700 if you think about these AI technologies in general 02:49:12.700 --> 02:49:14.440 it's not just about like 02:49:14.440 --> 02:49:16.340 what is an AI model and a chatbot 02:49:16.340 --> 02:49:17.940 like chatbots are not that exciting 02:49:17.940 --> 02:49:19.800 so if I told you it's a chatbot 02:49:19.800 --> 02:49:21.640 which there's a demo of me on YouTube 02:49:21.640 --> 02:49:23.760 from like 2020 showing like 02:49:23.760 --> 02:49:25.580 here's our search tool right 02:49:25.580 --> 02:49:27.320 we didn't ship that because like 02:49:27.320 --> 02:49:29.160 the technology whether it's 02:49:29.160 --> 02:49:31.180 you know what we're doing or whether it's like 02:49:31.180 --> 02:49:32.900 all these other gen AI companies do 02:49:32.900 --> 02:49:35.320 they know that like it has this unbounded potential 02:49:35.320 --> 02:49:37.660 to be anything and everything in lots of different ways 02:49:37.660 --> 02:49:39.820 right and I'm not 02:49:39.820 --> 02:49:41.240 in that like I'm not 02:49:41.620 --> 02:49:43.400 in that business anymore of 02:49:43.400 --> 02:49:45.720 of build some big complicated like 02:49:45.720 --> 02:49:47.280 software platform where you could do that 02:49:47.280 --> 02:49:48.980 like that's expensive and you need some 02:49:48.980 --> 02:49:51.060 money to play that game so I'm not playing 02:49:51.060 --> 02:49:53.100 the game now what I am playing is like 02:49:53.100 --> 02:49:55.260 I think that the that that game 02:49:55.260 --> 02:49:56.400 is going to move to 02:49:57.560 --> 02:49:58.620 a you know 02:49:59.220 --> 02:50:01.180 something that looks a lot more like a Mac mini 02:50:01.180 --> 02:50:02.780 as as a platform 02:50:02.780 --> 02:50:05.100 and I think that and there are some 02:50:05.100 --> 02:50:06.240 sort of 02:50:07.040 --> 02:50:09.200 things that that we kind of 02:50:09.200 --> 02:50:11.240 invented or were the first ones to 02:50:11.240 --> 02:50:13.280 to play with like what part of this 02:50:13.280 --> 02:50:15.300 is things to do with the Mac mini but part of it is also 02:50:15.300 --> 02:50:17.520 like the affiliate badges and if you go 02:50:17.520 --> 02:50:19.500 on Twitter now you will see several different 02:50:19.500 --> 02:50:21.400 companies that are in the 02:50:21.400 --> 02:50:23.400 Mac mini AI business and they 02:50:23.400 --> 02:50:25.940 use affiliate badges and several of them 02:50:25.940 --> 02:50:27.440 are going hey maybe I can do some 02:50:27.440 --> 02:50:29.240 Solana pump fund agent things 02:50:29.240 --> 02:50:31.140 for my revenue model 02:50:31.140 --> 02:50:33.440 right and that 02:50:33.440 --> 02:50:35.740 right now they won't call that the computational 02:50:35.740 --> 02:50:36.900 data market because 02:50:36.900 --> 02:50:39.600 the speculative capital and the money 02:50:39.600 --> 02:50:41.200 is paying people to say AI 02:50:41.200 --> 02:50:43.160 agents right now 02:50:43.160 --> 02:50:45.080 if they said twenty one eight and computational 02:50:45.080 --> 02:50:47.360 data markets then they would find very quickly 02:50:47.360 --> 02:50:49.100 that they suddenly know 02:50:49.100 --> 02:50:51.300 more about what's going on and they make better decisions 02:50:51.300 --> 02:50:52.920 and and and and they 02:50:52.920 --> 02:50:54.940 you know that they build their products along that way 02:50:54.940 --> 02:50:56.840 and so there's several like twenty one eight 02:50:56.840 --> 02:50:59.060 adjacent companies that are all 02:50:59.060 --> 02:51:01.140 tackling that 02:51:01.140 --> 02:51:03.180 speculative problem on a 02:51:03.180 --> 02:51:05.280 on a small scale right and so I'll be 02:51:05.280 --> 02:51:07.440 looking to can some of those 02:51:07.440 --> 02:51:09.200 projects be suitable 02:51:09.200 --> 02:51:11.160 enough like when the 02:51:11.160 --> 02:51:12.640 Xbox came out well 02:51:13.020 --> 02:51:15.100 and you you or or or steam 02:51:15.100 --> 02:51:16.820 launched then you had halo 02:51:16.820 --> 02:51:19.160 as a day one launch title or 02:51:19.160 --> 02:51:19.720 you had 02:51:21.200 --> 02:51:23.240 half life to you know 02:51:23.240 --> 02:51:24.840 ship on 02:51:24.840 --> 02:51:27.380 alongside steam right and so 02:51:27.380 --> 02:51:29.120 I'm doing the exercise 02:51:29.120 --> 02:51:30.980 of making the starter kit 02:51:30.980 --> 02:51:33.320 box that is a magical 02:51:33.320 --> 02:51:35.220 box that says twenty one eight on 02:51:35.220 --> 02:51:37.160 it and so they're like yeah it's 02:51:37.160 --> 02:51:39.120 really hard for other people to 02:51:39.120 --> 02:51:40.920 figure out how to put bitcoin and 02:51:40.920 --> 02:51:42.620 AI into a box that I could 02:51:43.260 --> 02:51:45.180 plausibly imagine that could be 02:51:45.180 --> 02:51:47.100 sold at best buy we would really 02:51:47.100 --> 02:51:49.120 like to have twenty one eight starter kit boxes 02:51:49.120 --> 02:51:51.000 that you buy at best buy but we would 02:51:51.000 --> 02:51:53.180 also like to have it say Chloe twenty one eight 02:51:53.180 --> 02:51:55.060 and got six hundred and everything next to it right 02:51:55.060 --> 02:51:57.040 and it costs lots of money and the 02:51:57.040 --> 02:51:58.800 AI technology still isn't there yet 02:51:58.800 --> 02:52:00.880 to make like an AI video game 02:52:00.880 --> 02:52:02.800 but Elon like one of you 02:52:02.800 --> 02:52:04.960 learn to like you know read the announcements 02:52:04.960 --> 02:52:06.980 and see what's going on you can see that 02:52:06.980 --> 02:52:08.820 there's a lot of that that's coming down the pipeline 02:52:08.820 --> 02:52:10.300 it's also coming from Nvidia 02:52:10.860 --> 02:52:12.780 they have been saying the same sort of thing about 02:52:12.780 --> 02:52:14.920 that every game frame 02:52:14.920 --> 02:52:16.760 is going to be generated instead 02:52:16.760 --> 02:52:18.020 of instead of rendered 02:52:18.720 --> 02:52:20.620 and you know buy buy 02:52:20.620 --> 02:52:22.640 and about in about five years 02:52:22.640 --> 02:52:25.080 four or five years so it's not like I can see that with 02:52:25.080 --> 02:52:26.840 their chips now so it's not like I just 02:52:26.840 --> 02:52:28.940 we could just go buy Mac minis 02:52:28.940 --> 02:52:30.880 and install the software of 02:52:30.880 --> 02:52:31.980 twenty one eight ourselves 02:52:33.080 --> 02:52:34.780 for the speculative exercise 02:52:34.780 --> 02:52:36.980 of like the Mac mini unit of account 02:52:37.760 --> 02:52:38.760 you can do that 02:52:39.600 --> 02:52:40.920 if that's a lot of work 02:52:40.920 --> 02:52:43.160 and like you know and you'd rather just 02:52:43.160 --> 02:52:45.080 like I do that hold on to that 02:52:45.080 --> 02:52:47.040 for you and put them in a pile then I'll also 02:52:47.040 --> 02:52:48.940 you know I'll also do that 02:52:48.940 --> 02:52:50.980 so you can actually approach that like purely from that 02:52:50.980 --> 02:52:52.440 on that speculative basis 02:52:54.180 --> 02:52:55.720 and it's a fun like entertainment 02:52:55.720 --> 02:52:57.300 thing of like think about your Mac mini 02:52:57.300 --> 02:52:58.880 and now you don't need to scroll on Twitter all day 02:52:58.880 --> 02:53:00.760 because you can just go anywhere and like 02:53:00.760 --> 02:53:02.820 think about a Mac mini like you know turning 02:53:02.820 --> 02:53:04.940 around in your head and like that's quite entertaining 02:53:05.520 --> 02:53:06.640 so that's really efficient 02:53:07.380 --> 02:53:07.820 but 02:53:08.320 --> 02:53:10.760 but I'm punished anytime like like 02:53:10.760 --> 02:53:12.660 we don't make any money right because we sell the note at cost 02:53:12.660 --> 02:53:13.980 and the value proposition 02:53:15.580 --> 02:53:16.460 is better 02:53:16.460 --> 02:53:18.640 if you don't need like 02:53:18.640 --> 02:53:20.360 the less that you need is an overhead 02:53:21.180 --> 02:53:22.060 so hopefully 02:53:22.060 --> 02:53:24.400 I don't need to open the boxes at all 02:53:24.400 --> 02:53:26.760 to preconfigure anything I can just 02:53:26.760 --> 02:53:28.900 put like an SD card in there or a Bitcoin 02:53:28.900 --> 02:53:30.560 like transit transaction 02:53:30.560 --> 02:53:32.760 idea of some zip file or something else 02:53:32.760 --> 02:53:34.780 but it needs to have everything 02:53:34.780 --> 02:53:36.700 in there for you to do 02:53:36.700 --> 02:53:38.000 what we were doing in the last cycle 02:53:38.560 --> 02:53:38.800 right 02:53:39.880 --> 02:53:42.300 which is this information creation concept 02:53:42.300 --> 02:53:44.420 and so right now I'm sort of in like 02:53:44.420 --> 02:53:46.680 post production on that try to figure out 02:53:46.680 --> 02:53:48.520 how to continue like anything that 02:53:48.520 --> 02:53:50.420 isn't needed it can be thrown out and deleted 02:53:50.420 --> 02:53:52.620 and then continue to grind it down 02:53:52.620 --> 02:53:54.520 until it until it you know 02:53:54.520 --> 02:53:55.920 like fits on a nice little like 02:53:56.400 --> 02:53:57.720 a gigabyte SD card 02:53:58.260 --> 02:54:00.460 and then you can confidently go 02:54:00.460 --> 02:54:01.700 okay cool like let's go 02:54:01.700 --> 02:54:04.040 let's go create 10 million of these 02:54:04.040 --> 02:54:05.580 right but ideally 02:54:06.540 --> 02:54:07.460 ideally it 02:54:07.460 --> 02:54:08.960 did we lose you 02:54:09.680 --> 02:54:11.400 oh shit I'm here I'm here can you hear me 02:54:11.400 --> 02:54:12.980 your camera just disappeared 02:54:12.980 --> 02:54:15.060 I guess it's a good thing for the end of the 02:54:15.060 --> 02:54:17.080 end of the chat 02:54:19.000 --> 02:54:20.640 ideally we'll have figured out 02:54:20.640 --> 02:54:22.840 I never plugged in my camera 02:54:22.840 --> 02:54:24.320 so I was running on battery 02:54:24.320 --> 02:54:25.500 my bad 02:54:25.500 --> 02:54:27.400 so I could I could 02:54:27.400 --> 02:54:29.600 turn on in one second sorry 02:54:29.600 --> 02:54:30.720 it's okay it's quite funny 02:54:30.720 --> 02:54:32.240 we could definitely 02:54:32.240 --> 02:54:35.220 start wrapping up you know what 02:54:35.220 --> 02:54:37.400 I really want I really love 02:54:37.400 --> 02:54:39.120 this because from 02:54:39.120 --> 02:54:40.300 just 02:54:41.230 --> 02:54:42.820 as a bit coiner 02:54:43.430 --> 02:54:45.760 who fell in love with bitcoins computational 02:54:45.760 --> 02:54:46.220 power 02:54:49.100 --> 02:54:50.460 I'm someone who 02:54:51.100 --> 02:54:53.180 finds a lot of value in this man 02:54:53.180 --> 02:54:55.400 like I really do and 02:54:56.940 --> 02:54:59.160 and it's it's for the first time in my life 02:54:59.160 --> 02:55:01.220 that I see it actually happening and taking 02:55:01.220 --> 02:55:01.760 place 02:55:02.860 --> 02:55:04.840 in a very real way 02:55:05.720 --> 02:55:07.340 in a new way in a way 02:55:07.340 --> 02:55:09.300 that is better 02:55:09.300 --> 02:55:10.760 than I had ever hoped for you know 02:55:12.120 --> 02:55:13.000 where like 02:55:14.060 --> 02:55:15.220 like this is something 02:55:17.120 --> 02:55:19.200 like I'm complete can you see me 02:55:19.200 --> 02:55:20.740 now can you hear me well yeah 02:55:21.280 --> 02:55:22.580 to be completely honest 02:55:23.340 --> 02:55:24.360 Mark like I've been 02:55:24.360 --> 02:55:26.880 one of those people I've probably followed you the closest 02:55:26.880 --> 02:55:28.760 throughout the years and yet it's 02:55:28.760 --> 02:55:30.640 been very hard for me to really wrap my head 02:55:30.640 --> 02:55:32.640 around this so I really want to thank you 02:55:32.640 --> 02:55:34.520 for your time and 02:55:34.520 --> 02:55:36.900 believe me I'm starting to really get the picture 02:55:36.900 --> 02:55:39.080 I'm really starting to get the picture now 02:55:39.080 --> 02:55:40.940 now I'm at the position 02:55:40.940 --> 02:55:42.580 where as soon as I'm off this call 02:55:42.580 --> 02:55:44.740 I'm gonna at last time I checked 02:55:44.740 --> 02:55:46.800 the Mac mini's were out of sale 02:55:47.520 --> 02:55:48.300 there's a lie 02:55:48.300 --> 02:55:50.260 there's a there's a message that said 02:55:50.260 --> 02:55:52.500 we're out of stock can I go buy 02:55:52.500 --> 02:55:53.180 one right now 02:55:54.320 --> 02:55:56.340 I just so what I'm 02:55:56.340 --> 02:55:58.280 doing is like every week I will call up 02:55:58.280 --> 02:56:00.280 the PC shop and they send 02:56:00.280 --> 02:56:02.300 me five computers and I 02:56:02.300 --> 02:56:04.320 take on the risk of like making that 02:56:04.320 --> 02:56:06.160 available because before last year 02:56:06.160 --> 02:56:07.780 what I was doing is people were ordering them 02:56:08.140 --> 02:56:09.540 and then after they send me the money 02:56:09.540 --> 02:56:12.240 and then strike sends me the money then I would go 02:56:12.240 --> 02:56:13.640 and and and get the computers 02:56:14.180 --> 02:56:16.240 alright so my so I'm sort of 02:56:16.240 --> 02:56:18.560 trying to do the job of be really good 02:56:18.560 --> 02:56:20.220 like you know run the inventory 02:56:20.220 --> 02:56:22.440 and like immediately be 02:56:22.440 --> 02:56:24.200 able to have the have the thing on 02:56:24.200 --> 02:56:26.260 it's a moment notice so I will 02:56:26.260 --> 02:56:28.300 go acquire like some nodes 02:56:28.300 --> 02:56:30.200 and and like and like 02:56:30.200 --> 02:56:31.160 you know our risk 02:56:33.100 --> 02:56:33.660 tolerance 02:56:34.240 --> 02:56:36.220 add some nodes put them on the website 02:56:36.220 --> 02:56:38.380 keep track of how many days they 02:56:38.380 --> 02:56:40.320 they take to ship because this is one 02:56:40.320 --> 02:56:42.120 of the key indicators 02:56:42.120 --> 02:56:44.360 for Nvidia at the moment is it 02:56:44.360 --> 02:56:46.200 something like 68 days 02:56:47.080 --> 02:56:47.560 for 02:56:49.160 --> 02:56:49.640 for 02:56:50.580 --> 02:56:52.360 inventory that they have on hand 02:56:52.360 --> 02:56:53.860 to be shipped to customer 02:56:55.660 --> 02:56:56.960 right and that's 02:56:56.960 --> 02:56:58.420 that's like with an argument 02:56:58.420 --> 02:56:59.920 like a high extremely 02:56:59.920 --> 02:57:02.120 highly overpriced 02:57:02.120 --> 02:57:03.600 like that's at the speculative 02:57:04.900 --> 02:57:06.460 thing that they're supposedly saying 02:57:06.460 --> 02:57:08.340 like you know there's enormous infinite 02:57:08.340 --> 02:57:09.760 demand and they're all out of stock 02:57:09.760 --> 02:57:11.900 well if they're all out of stock why is it taking 02:57:11.900 --> 02:57:13.780 68 days to move the inventory 02:57:13.780 --> 02:57:16.040 right so my goal is 02:57:16.040 --> 02:57:18.020 for us to not just have 02:57:18.020 --> 02:57:19.940 this sort of like micro strategy thing of not 02:57:19.940 --> 02:57:22.160 being the not not having 02:57:22.160 --> 02:57:23.940 the execution 02:57:23.940 --> 02:57:26.140 risk of creating 02:57:26.140 --> 02:57:27.920 and producing the product but also 02:57:27.920 --> 02:57:29.940 distribute marketing and producing it 02:57:29.940 --> 02:57:31.740 right and like doing the software and things 02:57:31.740 --> 02:57:33.220 de-risk the hardware 02:57:33.960 --> 02:57:35.500 right and to the 02:57:35.500 --> 02:57:37.280 and to the extent that 02:57:37.620 --> 02:57:39.480 they might you're 02:57:39.480 --> 02:57:41.320 still here I'm still here I'll just 02:57:41.320 --> 02:57:42.540 I'll just finish up and we can 02:57:42.540 --> 02:57:45.760 yeah to the extent that 02:57:45.760 --> 02:57:47.440 there might technically need to be 02:57:47.440 --> 02:57:49.000 some software on there 02:57:49.000 --> 02:57:51.540 that goes in the box that like 02:57:51.540 --> 02:57:53.440 to nail the experience like I have 02:57:53.440 --> 02:57:54.720 the capacity to do that 02:57:55.380 --> 02:57:57.220 but we're making 02:57:57.220 --> 02:57:59.180 the bet either 02:57:59.180 --> 02:58:00.780 that at the moment like 02:58:00.780 --> 02:58:03.420 if we put some premium so if I charge 02:58:03.420 --> 02:58:05.280 like $1200 except to make 02:58:05.280 --> 02:58:07.260 many is less then 02:58:07.260 --> 02:58:08.920 it wouldn't have the same sort of 02:58:08.920 --> 02:58:09.340 effect 02:58:11.700 --> 02:58:12.580 but yeah 02:58:12.580 --> 02:58:14.580 it would like limit the 02:58:15.200 --> 02:58:17.040 value that comes out of the collective 02:58:17.040 --> 02:58:18.700 like network and exercise from doing it 02:58:18.700 --> 02:58:21.040 if we figure out how to just make all that work like at the moment 02:58:21.040 --> 02:58:23.100 if you just get a Mac mini and you install X on it 02:58:23.100 --> 02:58:25.000 and then you can see how people so you don't 02:58:25.000 --> 02:58:26.800 yeah like a computer is 02:58:26.800 --> 02:58:28.600 or iPhone or whatever is the $2800 02:58:28.600 --> 02:58:31.340 right so that's 02:58:31.340 --> 02:58:33.180 that's all that's kind of needed at 02:58:33.180 --> 02:58:34.920 this at this level of it 02:58:34.920 --> 02:58:36.940 if suddenly everybody that has 02:58:36.940 --> 02:58:38.980 one of those badges that you see on the internet they could 02:58:38.980 --> 02:58:40.640 start you know doing something 02:58:40.640 --> 02:58:42.880 then what I'm trying to do is like 02:58:42.880 --> 02:58:45.100 you know former consensus on 02:58:45.100 --> 02:58:46.780 hey everybody just like 02:58:46.780 --> 02:58:48.620 use the Mac mini as 02:58:48.620 --> 02:58:51.000 the nodes target so that some guy 02:58:51.000 --> 02:58:52.920 doesn't come and like add something that 02:58:52.920 --> 02:58:54.920 like it would be as we had this problem where 02:58:54.920 --> 02:58:56.160 in 2020 02:58:56.780 --> 02:58:59.400 you know most of the nodes off was still for running on servers 02:58:59.900 --> 02:59:01.180 and so people were shutting down 02:59:01.180 --> 02:59:02.860 their nodes and they wouldn't have had that problem 02:59:02.860 --> 02:59:04.720 if they ran on like 02:59:04.720 --> 02:59:06.780 you know on a desktop pc 02:59:06.780 --> 02:59:07.700 as much 02:59:08.500 --> 02:59:09.240 right on 02:59:09.880 --> 02:59:10.960 no this is amazing 02:59:12.500 --> 02:59:14.820 if you had a Mac mini then you probably 02:59:14.820 --> 02:59:16.860 wouldn't have the camera problem so much 02:59:16.860 --> 02:59:17.660 there you go 02:59:18.760 --> 02:59:20.740 it doesn't even have a camera so you just like 02:59:20.740 --> 02:59:22.020 come on on the audio you know 02:59:22.680 --> 02:59:24.180 yeah correct so 02:59:24.660 --> 02:59:26.980 I'm just blown away and I want to thank you for your time 02:59:26.980 --> 02:59:28.340 so I'm 02:59:28.340 --> 02:59:30.860 this is something that I find so 02:59:30.860 --> 02:59:31.260 important 02:59:31.880 --> 02:59:33.500 that what I'm going to do Mark 02:59:33.500 --> 02:59:36.620 is I'm going to watch this over and over again 02:59:36.620 --> 02:59:37.560 because you 02:59:37.560 --> 02:59:40.060 it seems like you're like a volcano 02:59:40.840 --> 02:59:42.340 erupting of information 02:59:42.860 --> 02:59:44.020 of ideas 02:59:44.020 --> 02:59:46.580 of like really consolidating 02:59:46.580 --> 02:59:48.100 what we need most 02:59:48.100 --> 02:59:50.520 in bringing to life the 02:59:50.520 --> 02:59:51.660 bit aspect of bitcoin 02:59:51.660 --> 02:59:53.960 so I'm going to digest everything 02:59:53.960 --> 02:59:55.860 I'm going to take down some questions 02:59:55.860 --> 02:59:58.320 I'm going to really go get I'm going to get 02:59:58.320 --> 03:00:00.440 some questions out of this whole 03:00:00.440 --> 03:00:02.600 conversation and I would like to do 03:00:02.600 --> 03:00:03.680 a part two with you 03:00:04.460 --> 03:00:06.440 it could be in a month from now two months 03:00:06.440 --> 03:00:08.160 from now but I really want to keep the momentum 03:00:08.160 --> 03:00:10.460 going I understand that you're 03:00:10.460 --> 03:00:12.160 going to be having a twitter space tomorrow right 03:00:12.760 --> 03:00:13.160 so 03:00:14.260 --> 03:00:16.360 there's some stuff around the moment things don't change that 03:00:16.360 --> 03:00:16.820 rapidly 03:00:17.560 --> 03:00:20.560 hasn't really changed like in 12 months it's now sort of about the time that 03:00:20.560 --> 03:00:22.380 to sort of kind of like going on 12 months since 03:00:22.380 --> 03:00:24.540 we started this like 11 months did you can 03:00:24.540 --> 03:00:26.580 now start understanding 03:00:26.580 --> 03:00:27.620 what's going on 03:00:28.760 --> 03:00:30.700 and I sort of I've done a few 03:00:30.700 --> 03:00:32.060 interviews over the years and you can 03:00:32.060 --> 03:00:33.540 sort of track them a bit so 03:00:33.540 --> 03:00:36.560 I would go and write down some 03:00:36.560 --> 03:00:37.980 questions pick somebody else 03:00:38.460 --> 03:00:39.820 with that badge on twitter 03:00:40.520 --> 03:00:40.760 and 03:00:41.960 --> 03:00:43.260 ask them some questions 03:00:43.800 --> 03:00:45.240 I think that would be quite interesting 03:00:45.780 --> 03:00:48.120 and then like you know let's talk 03:00:48.120 --> 03:00:50.140 let's talk in like 12 regime months 03:00:50.680 --> 03:00:51.960 there you go yeah so 03:00:51.960 --> 03:00:54.380 when I'm going to ask everyone watching this video 03:00:55.280 --> 03:00:55.980 it's a 03:00:55.980 --> 03:00:57.700 to write down questions 03:00:57.700 --> 03:01:00.680 and at the beginning of this video I'm going to 03:01:00.680 --> 03:01:02.400 I'm going to put a message 03:01:02.400 --> 03:01:04.320 at the beginning of this video saying 03:01:04.320 --> 03:01:06.300 this topic is pretty dense 03:01:06.300 --> 03:01:08.520 if you have any questions for 03:01:08.520 --> 03:01:10.040 mark for an upcoming video 03:01:10.040 --> 03:01:12.960 make sure you ask questions below 03:01:12.960 --> 03:01:14.620 just feel free don't be bashful 03:01:14.620 --> 03:01:16.860 ask questions just ask questions 03:01:16.860 --> 03:01:18.320 on the comments below 03:01:20.100 --> 03:01:22.380 mark thank you so much for your time 03:01:22.380 --> 03:01:24.540 thank you for everything that you're doing 03:01:24.540 --> 03:01:26.260 for bitcoin, for the entire 03:01:26.260 --> 03:01:28.080 space and 03:01:28.080 --> 03:01:30.020 working people find you 03:01:30.020 --> 03:01:31.960 working people learn more about what 03:01:31.960 --> 03:01:33.400 21E8 is 03:01:33.400 --> 03:01:34.980 go to apple.com 03:01:34.980 --> 03:01:37.600 and then you know 03:01:37.600 --> 03:01:38.940 you can find me there 03:01:39.640 --> 03:01:42.120 perfect thank you for your time mark 03:01:42.120 --> 03:01:43.900 peace love anarchy 03:01:43.900 --> 03:01:45.140 ciao 03:01:45.140 --> 03:01:48.340 now we are dealing with 03:01:48.340 --> 03:01:50.020 a possible world war 03:01:50.020 --> 03:01:52.500 some will say we are already in a world war 03:01:52.500 --> 03:01:54.100 my condolences and 03:01:54.100 --> 03:01:55.640 prayers go out to everyone 03:01:55.640 --> 03:01:57.060 suffering under tyranny 03:01:57.060 --> 03:01:59.100 it really sucks, I'm really sorry 03:01:59.100 --> 03:02:01.780 but it seems as if people are starting to wake up 03:02:01.780 --> 03:02:04.040 regarding crypto more and more each day 03:02:04.040 --> 03:02:06.440 and so it's in the description right here 03:02:06.440 --> 03:02:07.820 to read where we give 03:02:07.820 --> 03:02:10.280 our secret sauce and what we teach our subscribers 03:02:10.280 --> 03:02:12.400 because things are just that bad 03:02:12.400 --> 03:02:14.160 you know everyone needs this information 03:02:14.160 --> 03:02:15.540 people need to know about 03:02:15.540 --> 03:02:17.780 sound cryptocurrencies that are 03:02:17.780 --> 03:02:19.400 actually private by default 03:02:19.400 --> 03:02:22.040 and to know how to properly use crypto