WEBVTT 00:02.990 --> 00:11.130 It's time for Declare Your Independence with Ernest Hancock believe me when I say we have a 00:11.130 --> 00:19.470 Difficult time ahead of us, but if we are to be prepared for it, we must first shed our fear of it 00:20.150 --> 00:24.450 I stand here without fear because I remember 00:25.250 --> 00:32.370 I remember that I am here not because of the path that lies before me, but because of the path that lies behind me 00:33.360 --> 00:37.750 I remember that for 100 years we have fought these machines and 00:38.610 --> 00:43.750 After a century of war, I remember that which matters most 00:44.630 --> 00:46.350 We are still here 00:46.350 --> 01:07.560 Let's make them remember, we are not a friend, we are not a friend 01:14.600 --> 01:23.020 From the Sonoran Desert we're starting to get relatively warm. Well, we're gonna go to almost a great white north 01:24.180 --> 01:30.360 In New Hampshire where it's probably still they cold and what we're gonna go ahead do is gonna talk to 01:30.360 --> 01:36.760 Jason Sorens. Okay. Let me tell you Jason Sorens is he's all he's all credentialed and such 01:36.760 --> 01:45.320 Senior research fellow. Oh, yeah for what he's a PhD and senior research fellow at air. Now air stands for 01:46.240 --> 01:49.840 I need some air. What we're gonna go ahead and do is talk about that and 01:51.160 --> 01:55.700 Principal investigator in New Hampshire zoning atlas. What the hell does that mean? 01:55.700 --> 02:01.920 But I'm interested in some zoning stuff. Jason and I you know hung out a little bit at Anarca Poco and 02:05.740 --> 02:09.000 Where you had the theater going on there, that's a whole nother thing 02:09.000 --> 02:15.760 What Jason was formerly the director of for ethics in society at St. Anselm College 02:15.760 --> 02:19.460 He has research and written more than 20 peer-reviewed 02:19.460 --> 02:23.900 Journal articles a book for McGill Queens University Press titled 02:24.780 --> 02:25.240 Successionism 02:26.380 --> 02:27.660 and a 02:28.700 --> 02:37.020 Biannalee revised book for the Cato Institute freedom in the 50 states with William Ruger his research is focused on 02:37.020 --> 02:40.680 Housing policy and land use regulation 02:41.340 --> 02:48.240 U.S. State politics fiscal federalism have movements for regional autonomy and independence 02:48.240 --> 02:53.060 around the world now explain how that's all pertinent and you know 02:53.820 --> 03:00.320 Housing policy land use regulations occupy the land. I'm gonna be asking Jason, you know a whole bunch of questions 03:00.320 --> 03:02.720 So get ready. He has taught at Yale 03:03.420 --> 03:09.720 Dartmouth and the University at Buffalo and twice won awards for best teaching in his department 03:09.720 --> 03:15.740 Maybe it's a kind of truth thing, you know, he tried that. He lives in Amherst, New Hampshire 03:15.740 --> 03:18.820 Now how we know Jason as 03:19.700 --> 03:20.240 early 03:21.140 --> 03:21.440 Oh 03:22.760 --> 03:31.620 2000s we were since three weeks after 9-11 we did the freedom summit every year now the freedom summit was, you know a thing 03:31.620 --> 03:32.640 well 03:33.640 --> 03:35.080 at the table there 03:35.720 --> 03:37.720 Early in the aughts 03:37.720 --> 03:42.980 There was a I don't know if it was Jason or other people or whatever that was man in the table 03:43.500 --> 03:51.340 The Free State Project now I'm gonna tell you the story as I remember it and have Jason correct me all the places 03:51.340 --> 03:56.840 I'm wrong. This is how I remember it what happened was they were there 03:57.410 --> 03:58.760 advocating for 03:59.580 --> 04:07.580 Libertarians to move to a geographic area. We could concentrate our efforts. So they wanted to have a 04:07.580 --> 04:09.160 low population 04:09.820 --> 04:17.360 Been nice if it had an international border, you know access to the ocean, you know, so I kind of you know throughout Wyoming 04:17.360 --> 04:19.980 Which is buying for it. Then you have 04:21.640 --> 04:27.400 Bo, you know, you get so many people sign up. I was like 5,000 or something online 04:27.400 --> 04:30.860 And that's what they were advocating for. Hey man, let's do this and 04:31.440 --> 04:32.320 once we 04:32.820 --> 04:33.920 select a state 04:34.860 --> 04:37.060 After we get so many people 04:37.060 --> 04:42.740 To go I think it was like 20,000 or something that signed up that they promised they'd go 04:42.740 --> 04:47.800 Then you pull the trigger and you got a year or two years to move there 04:47.800 --> 04:51.880 Or we or we you know call you a slacker or something. I don't know what the penalty was 04:51.880 --> 04:57.360 But you know, that was the pledge you guys get 20,000. We're going to 04:58.500 --> 05:00.880 Hampshire well, I remember it was 05:01.760 --> 05:06.340 Early the first quarter and oh three or maybe by the second quarter 05:07.000 --> 05:11.460 because I just started doing terror and radio out of Scottsdale and 05:11.460 --> 05:15.460 Man to Phillips. I think that's what her name was, you know, we had okay 05:15.460 --> 05:20.640 They they picked New Hampshire. She comes on the show next morning announces and I'm going so 05:22.080 --> 05:28.200 You got a secret handshake, you know, you got a club you got a deal. I've pledged allegiance to something 05:28.200 --> 05:29.980 I mean, what how's this going to work? 05:29.980 --> 05:36.820 Well, we did our first freedom summit outside of Arizona in Manchester, New Hampshire to help promote it 05:36.820 --> 05:43.280 We had Ron Paul there base Beauvard, you know, George Smith, you know, a lot of greats in Peter shift 05:43.280 --> 05:49.980 I mean, you know, it was a good so array. Well, what happened was, you know, a lot of things 05:50.720 --> 05:57.020 transpired way too much libertarian attention on New Hampshire the live free or die state 05:57.020 --> 06:04.360 Well, the man was, you know, not digging it too much because they're surrounded by Massachusetts Vermont main kind of got this freedom 06:04.360 --> 06:11.720 Bastion of you're not allowed and we're trying to change that damn license plate cover that says live free or die and on our license plate 06:11.720 --> 06:13.520 You're doing it wrong. So I'm like 06:14.660 --> 06:21.960 The battle beyond well, then you had people start moving there free talk live came out there with you know 06:21.960 --> 06:27.000 Ian Freeman and Mark Edge and they get targeted by the FBI once explained it to us 06:27.020 --> 06:34.520 You know a bunch of crypto stuff's going on, you know, gold backs and silver currency and silver bits with silver Dave there and 06:34.520 --> 06:40.100 Starting to live free and get in land and farm and supply in the free state project with me 06:40.100 --> 06:45.880 Where's the meat? Well, the free state guys had it during cobit. They marketed it on Facebook 06:45.880 --> 06:47.660 because you can't sell animals there as a 06:47.660 --> 06:52.700 Bacon seeds the hell's a bacon seed little piglets because you had to say it that way 06:52.700 --> 07:00.680 So this is the kind of environment that it created and I was very familiar with New Hampshire during Ron Paul evolution of 07:00.680 --> 07:04.780 Oh seven eight winter there got the witness how they 07:05.460 --> 07:07.440 Take care of business on their own 07:07.440 --> 07:13.360 They're not waiting on the government because it's there's no concentration of really big giant populations 07:13.360 --> 07:19.360 It's spread out over the state which when you select that you get 20,000 libertarians moving there 07:19.360 --> 07:23.640 Get involved or not involved in politics just by osmosis 07:23.640 --> 07:29.220 I mean if you just like a good neighbor of free staters there all of a sudden. Yeah, what they are what they're saying 07:29.220 --> 07:32.240 So this is what happened 07:32.240 --> 07:38.400 Jason was the one that wrote this as part of his PhD or something. We're gonna have him explain it to us 07:38.400 --> 07:46.440 About the free state project this concept and it took off and it actually happened. How often does that happen? So 07:47.100 --> 07:47.620 Jason 07:48.140 --> 07:54.280 We'll get into how it's going now. It's been deck decades. It's uh, you know a going thing 07:54.280 --> 07:57.680 You know, we have different festivals Liberty Forum just happened 07:57.680 --> 08:04.500 Which is you know had a resort during the winter because it's too damn cold and then you have in the summer 08:04.500 --> 08:11.320 Porcupine Freedom Festival. Well, that's more often all kinds of different stuff and once you create an organization around a movement 08:11.320 --> 08:15.920 Or a cause sooner or later the organization becomes more important than the reason you created it 08:15.920 --> 08:21.280 And you get into the alchquit it crap, but by now people are already living there moves a piece out 08:21.280 --> 08:25.020 You know, we already did it. We're doing whatever you guys go do whatever you want 08:25.020 --> 08:27.700 But Jason has had some legislative 08:28.260 --> 08:32.780 successes to the point that they done those don't like it none too much 08:32.780 --> 08:40.500 So we're gonna be talking about his accomplishments there what he's been doing with his degree and how his concept has 08:40.500 --> 08:42.480 inspired the world 08:42.480 --> 08:44.640 the world so 08:44.640 --> 08:51.120 Jason first how far off was I going from memory on that what I would just say it 08:51.120 --> 08:55.300 Ernie you got everything important, right? So so good for you 08:56.880 --> 08:58.980 Important there's unimportant stuff, right? 08:59.880 --> 09:04.080 Yeah, I mean so it's five years after we hit 20,000 the people had to move 09:04.080 --> 09:07.280 but it doesn't really matter now because we're beyond that five years now and 09:07.860 --> 09:11.480 People are still moving so now our goal is just to get as many people as possible 09:11.480 --> 09:14.400 Possible to move and to stay in the state 09:14.400 --> 09:17.180 So we're signing up natives in New Hampshire 09:17.720 --> 09:22.160 To get them active working for a free society and to stay in New Hampshire and fight 09:22.980 --> 09:25.820 Okay, now that was the one thing that was 09:26.600 --> 09:31.980 Kind of unique about this is that there was a pledge and it goes, you know 09:31.980 --> 09:35.940 I pinky swear to you know do all my efforts to 09:36.420 --> 09:42.000 Promote and do and run for office and help and kind of political solution of free state project 09:42.500 --> 09:48.080 And there were a lot of people that went that I don't give a crap about that. I'll sponsor the local ruling team 09:48.080 --> 09:52.060 You know, I'll be a good neighbor. I will in my trap. I'll plow the road for my neighborhood 09:52.060 --> 09:55.440 I was you know, I don't need to be on the mailing list of the whatever 09:55.440 --> 10:04.180 But that was kind of the early people they wanted to live in a state that was occupied by fellow libertarians and by 10:04.180 --> 10:10.200 Osmosis by example by you know witness parable testimony, whatever create the 10:10.880 --> 10:19.720 Understanding, you know, the philosophy of liberty is self-ownership, you know to have that because New Hampshire every presidential election cycle 10:20.240 --> 10:27.240 They all come, you know, they're gonna explain it to you. Well, the free state project has been explaining it to them 10:27.240 --> 10:33.100 So this I don't know if it's a requirement. It's a pledge. It's a pinky swear 10:33.960 --> 10:39.560 What's the participation of people that go to the free state that actually, you know 10:40.180 --> 10:47.560 What are you expecting them to do run for office give money do what what what yeah, we want you to come 10:47.560 --> 10:52.940 Okay, I got three questions. What do I have to do? What can't I do? What's your conflict resolution? 10:53.400 --> 10:56.400 Well, the first thing what you got to do is you got a hip 10:56.940 --> 10:59.740 Okay, explain that what does that mean? Yeah 10:59.740 --> 11:06.900 so when you sign up for the free state project at fsp.org you sign our statement of intent and 11:06.900 --> 11:10.240 That has been basically the same since we started the whole thing 11:10.240 --> 11:17.820 And it just says that you'll move to New Hampshire and live in New Hampshire and exert your fullest practical effort toward the creation of a 11:17.820 --> 11:24.300 Society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of individual rights to life liberty and property 11:24.300 --> 11:30.400 So basically fullest practical effort toward that and and that's for you to define for yourself 11:30.400 --> 11:35.020 That could be politics. Yes, that could be running for office testifying at the legislature 11:35.020 --> 11:38.280 giving money to candidates door knocking whatever 11:38.940 --> 11:40.480 testifying on bills, but 11:41.100 --> 11:43.180 And that's a very important part of what we do 11:43.180 --> 11:46.160 But a lot of it could be things like 11:46.780 --> 11:51.980 Entrepreneurship I'm gonna go into precious metals or cryptocurrency. I'm gonna go into homesteading 11:51.980 --> 11:55.540 I'm gonna, you know grow the meat for the free-staters, right? 11:55.680 --> 11:58.420 Just as he said like we've got farmers who are doing that 11:58.420 --> 12:05.340 And actually we just passed a bill that says if you get your meat if you raise your meat locally and get it processed locally 12:05.340 --> 12:06.680 You don't have to get USDA 12:08.320 --> 12:12.460 Inspection so that'll be a very interesting thing to see whether the federal government respects that 12:13.820 --> 12:17.360 So that's part of it education homeschool co-ops 12:18.080 --> 12:20.280 You know starting private schools 12:20.960 --> 12:26.660 Getting involved in media and communications. You mentioned free talk live all of those things 12:26.660 --> 12:33.280 Educating the the public about the benefits of liberty just being a good neighbor being a good citizen all of that 12:33.800 --> 12:36.960 Makes a difference and gets us closer to liberty in our lifetime 12:36.960 --> 12:40.900 You know one interesting data point that occurs to me years and years ago 12:40.900 --> 12:48.200 I looked at the data for the Ron Paul presidential campaign in 2008 that the primary vote shares in New Hampshire 12:48.200 --> 12:51.200 And I had on the one on the one side 12:51.200 --> 12:55.840 I had the number of free-staters in every town in New Hampshire back in 2008 12:55.840 --> 13:00.580 So this is very early on only a few hundred people had moved to the state and on the other side 13:00.580 --> 13:03.620 I had the number of votes that Ron Paul got in each town 13:03.620 --> 13:09.760 And I just did something called regression analysis to see what's the impact and I saw that for every free-stater 13:09.760 --> 13:11.440 That moved into a town 13:11.440 --> 13:16.740 Ron Paul got two more votes in that same town that year and that was statistically significant 13:16.740 --> 13:21.860 So it suggested that free-staters were in fact having an impact on their immediate neighbors 13:21.860 --> 13:26.140 Which was the whole point of the thing that that we're gonna go in and we're going to 13:26.820 --> 13:31.560 Reinforce the native Liberty culture of New Hampshire and and activate people to fight for freedom 13:33.720 --> 13:42.300 Politically that was your goal politics you politician. I mean, you know, so you know talk about that when you did first did your 13:44.240 --> 13:47.440 Presentation your paper, what did you call it? What is that thing? 13:47.580 --> 13:53.580 I mean when you wrote this and you put out this concept and you got the web page and people started doing it 13:53.580 --> 13:59.680 You promoted that freedom summits and we're online with it on my radio station, you know talking about it and so on 14:00.420 --> 14:05.000 What was that paper? What motivated that being done and how did it take off? 14:05.320 --> 14:07.580 Yeah, you could call it a manifesto of sorts 14:07.580 --> 14:13.680 I guess and I I wrote it for your fellow Arizona and L. Neal Smith's old 14:14.760 --> 14:22.260 Webzine the Libertarian Enterprise which I was an avid reader of at the time. Yeah, I was a 24-year-old graduate student 14:22.260 --> 14:28.660 He was out of Colorado, but Arizona embraced him quite a bit. He seemed kind of Arizona. Oh, okay 14:28.660 --> 14:31.580 You know what? I did not know that well Colorado Springs 14:31.580 --> 14:38.020 Something now this is what happened. You know, I this will give you you know kind of a timestamp 14:38.660 --> 14:43.780 Elno Smith was a science fiction writer. He passed away just a few years ago 14:44.740 --> 14:53.360 He was a science fiction writer big Rothbardian no compromise kick butt second amendment eat meat kind of you know science fiction novelist 14:53.360 --> 14:58.480 You know 30 40 books. I mean one of those guys. He was on the Libertarian National Committee 14:59.320 --> 15:00.100 as a 15:00.100 --> 15:06.300 Representative and so he was a contemporary of Rothbard and that kind of hardcore thing 15:06.300 --> 15:09.420 And how he came to our attention in the early 90s 15:09.420 --> 15:11.180 they had the Salt Lake City 15:11.740 --> 15:15.180 Libertarian National Convention and he was one of the speakers and 15:16.480 --> 15:21.660 A friend of mine that was there brows County Chair Libertarian Party here in Phoenix area at the time 15:21.660 --> 15:27.760 And he brought back the speech that Elno Smith had done and he had a phrase in there those 15:29.080 --> 15:36.080 North Libertarians with their phone core platform aren't be up loud. I go. Oh hell. Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about 15:36.080 --> 15:38.160 And that's back when it used to be a lot harder 15:38.160 --> 15:44.280 Well, what happened was all the things that he was talking about the no compromise, you know the 15:44.800 --> 15:49.960 Lean by example doing you know hardcore street activism kind was what we were doing 15:49.960 --> 15:54.160 So he was enamored with Arizona because we had followed 15:54.160 --> 15:55.320 you know 15:55.820 --> 16:00.040 Exactly what he was advocating as activism for getting attention yada yada yada yada 16:00.040 --> 16:04.620 So we haven't speak at our convention. We definitely promoted them, you know 16:04.620 --> 16:09.220 We are you know, they go you purist and we make purist badges and go to the National Convention 16:09.220 --> 16:15.620 You're like kind of crap. So El Niel Smith got associated with the Arizona a lot even though he was from Colorado 16:15.620 --> 16:22.860 So that's how that happened, but I know what you're talking about and then in I think it was a 96 or 2000 convention 16:23.640 --> 16:24.760 election year 16:25.540 --> 16:31.500 Yeah, 2000 he and and Ben Soprano, which were on the ballot in Arizona 16:31.500 --> 16:37.200 It was the only state of 50 that Harry Brown wasn't because National was going 16:37.980 --> 16:46.280 Communist long story, but that's how he came to prominence and our success in Arizona Wall Street Journal comes out says the Libertarian State 16:46.280 --> 16:50.060 Arizona it was because we embraced his hardcore 16:50.060 --> 16:56.500 Activist tactics or we already did it and he described it. So that's why El Niel Smith 16:56.500 --> 17:02.460 So if you're writing for the Libertarian, you know, the the enterprise because it was 17:03.340 --> 17:09.000 1701 you know like USS Enterprise on Star Trek kind of thing that was 17:10.200 --> 17:15.520 If you're associated with him that way then you already tell me kind of your mindset already 17:17.400 --> 17:22.180 Yeah, yeah, I was I was a radical in many ways. I still am I just you know 17:22.180 --> 17:25.920 My view also was that the Libertarian party isn't going to win elections 17:25.920 --> 17:31.360 So might as well be radical and and educate people so right. Thank you. Yeah, you know 17:31.360 --> 17:38.020 And I was I was active in the LP at the time, but I was very disappointed by the results of the 2000 election 17:38.020 --> 17:42.320 I can already tell that the US was moving away from freedom from that 90s culture of 17:42.890 --> 17:44.280 globalization and 17:44.280 --> 17:50.360 Cryptography, you know, I had the you know, PGP in my signature in my keep my public key and all that stuff 17:50.360 --> 17:54.880 you know, I was down with that I I plugged into that that culture hardcore and 17:55.880 --> 17:58.640 I could see America was moving away from that already 17:58.640 --> 18:03.960 But even before 9-11 and so I thought you know, we're never gonna we're never gonna take over DC 18:03.960 --> 18:07.040 There's not gonna be a Libertarian majority in Congress and a Libertarian president 18:07.040 --> 18:10.540 so what can we do and I even thought about 18:11.060 --> 18:17.040 Foreign countries and territories that were English-speaking and maybe moving there, but pretty quickly was clear that 18:17.580 --> 18:24.100 You know the citizenship rules are super strict and all that and so I was working on a dissertation on 18:24.100 --> 18:27.340 Secessionist movements movements for regional autonomy independence around the world 18:27.340 --> 18:31.420 And I noticed that places that had these movements got more autonomy from the central government 18:31.420 --> 18:35.000 So we're seeing countries like Belgium UK Spain Italy 18:35.000 --> 18:38.120 They're sending more power back to their regions 18:38.120 --> 18:41.660 Whereas the US has gone in the opposite direction since at least the 1930s 18:41.660 --> 18:45.220 Maybe even the 1860s taking power away from the States putting it in the federal government 18:45.220 --> 18:48.200 And so I thought well, maybe that trend is gonna come to the US 18:48.200 --> 18:53.620 So I thought that gave me the idea of focusing on the state level. Could we actually find a state? 18:54.260 --> 18:55.340 where we could move 18:55.340 --> 18:56.580 thousands of 18:56.580 --> 19:03.740 Liberty lovers and they could get involved in the political process and in society and actually create a free society is that even 19:03.740 --> 19:05.960 thinkable is that even possible and 19:05.960 --> 19:08.560 I came up with the conclusion that yes 19:08.560 --> 19:15.120 that that is doable provided these people are having an influence on their neighbors that they're they're being good neighbors 19:15.120 --> 19:16.980 They're bringing in good ideas 19:16.980 --> 19:19.260 And they're exerting the effort 19:19.800 --> 19:26.560 to to build Liberty and it just took off from there a lot of people got excited about it and we we put it together 19:27.120 --> 19:29.120 online in late 2001 and 19:29.880 --> 19:32.080 then Walter Williams wrote about it in 19:32.080 --> 19:37.240 2002 and he thought we should all move to Texas and then secede from the union and 19:39.060 --> 19:45.140 You know Texas way too big a population for a libertarians to have a big impact there, but nevertheless his 19:45.760 --> 19:48.700 syndicated column got us hundreds of signers 19:48.700 --> 19:54.040 Back in 2002 and then all of a sudden we became a national story because we were going to choose a state 19:54.040 --> 20:00.440 So in all the states that we were considering I was constantly doing radio TV newspaper interviews talking about 20:00.440 --> 20:03.480 this weird wacky idea of 20:04.120 --> 20:11.180 Maybe your state will be the one that libertarians start moving to and we ended up choosing New Hampshire for several reasons 20:11.180 --> 20:14.940 I think a big factor was that there was a huge 20:15.680 --> 20:19.880 Libertarian group in New Hampshire already that was lobbying for the state and they even got the governor 20:19.880 --> 20:23.800 To endorse us to sign up as a friend and to encourage us to choose New Hampshire 20:24.360 --> 20:25.660 And the rest is history 20:27.380 --> 20:30.860 They encourage you to choose pick us pick us 20:32.640 --> 20:34.660 Who got in trouble for doing that? 20:35.260 --> 20:39.980 Yeah, well that was Craig Benson. It was the governor at the time and you know, he's he's still around 20:39.980 --> 20:41.700 I actually had a conversation with him today 20:42.620 --> 20:45.600 so he's obviously no longer the governor but 20:46.620 --> 20:53.160 He he had libertarian sympathies. He said I have a lot more in common with libertarians than many of my fellow Republicans 20:54.180 --> 21:00.080 And that fit the live-free or die spirit of New Hampshire. No general sales tax. No income tax 21:00.080 --> 21:03.140 No seatbelt law for adults. These were things that had 21:03.820 --> 21:05.400 some New Hampshire for decades 21:06.300 --> 21:06.740 and 21:06.740 --> 21:09.020 Since we started moving to New Hampshire 21:09.640 --> 21:13.040 We've seen more and more freedom get through the legislature 21:13.040 --> 21:16.360 You know, if you want to talk about some of the some of the stuff we've done there 21:16.360 --> 21:20.800 I'm happy to go there. Oh my god. You got a lot of events, man. It's just 21:21.340 --> 21:28.500 Damn, you know, you want to get social with like-minded, you know, free-state project now when we were in 21:29.740 --> 21:32.160 At an archipelago part of my art turn 21:34.000 --> 21:41.880 You go Ernie we got something you might be interested in all right, what law did you pass that make me interested? 21:42.300 --> 21:43.180 You know, I 21:43.800 --> 21:49.360 And I don't care, you know, but he goes like this. He says if you produce surplus electricity 21:50.880 --> 21:55.440 It's now legal in New Hampshire to sell it to your neighbors and I went 21:56.860 --> 22:01.800 Okay. Oh, there's that. Well, what happened was we had a two-acre 22:02.640 --> 22:09.100 Horse property in Northwest Phoenix. Well, I had one, you know, like God three quarters of an acre 22:09.100 --> 22:14.560 I just wouldn't use it as a big soccer field for my grandkids and I go, you know, I can put a bunch of solar out there 22:14.560 --> 22:21.060 We were just getting ready, you know, do solar we're getting all solarized and need to do some solar and electricity bills and dam 22:21.060 --> 22:27.760 Then just some solar so I'm going I could do this entire field. I'll just run electric to my neighbors 22:27.760 --> 22:30.100 You know, they each had like two acre things 22:30.100 --> 22:35.400 I could probably you know easy four or five of them and pay for and I can make and kind of it's all good 22:35.400 --> 22:38.000 So I started looking at no not allowed 22:39.400 --> 22:43.140 Why cuz cuz not allowed, you know, and I just 22:44.600 --> 22:50.060 Seriously, I have extra electrons. I wish to share with my neighbors for a little bit a little bit 22:50.060 --> 22:57.440 No, you're not allowed. So when Jason comes to me and says, you know, we just passed legislation that you can do that 22:57.440 --> 23:03.280 Now something about going across the highway or Colbert under the road or whatever you got live on the right side of the 23:03.280 --> 23:06.040 Track or something, but you know, the thing is is that 23:06.540 --> 23:11.720 That is just a no-brainer, especially in New Hampshire that has so much 23:12.320 --> 23:18.260 Hydroelectric they have so many springs little rivers and everything everybody's got their own little, you know 23:18.260 --> 23:20.820 When they call him a Pella, you know 23:20.820 --> 23:26.580 Something that they're making hydropower. So I'm going okay now here in Arizona, of course 23:26.580 --> 23:30.020 I'm running on solar. So explain that to me 23:30.600 --> 23:34.060 How was that allowed? Who was the opposition? 23:34.400 --> 23:38.940 How was it overcome and what is the ultimate goal on that kind of legislation? 23:39.800 --> 23:40.240 Yeah 23:40.240 --> 23:40.520 So 23:41.400 --> 23:45.920 We call it micro grids or some people call it consumer regulated electricity 23:45.920 --> 23:52.200 We're the so far the only state in the country to have passed this basically it says if you produce your own electricity 23:52.780 --> 23:56.560 And this could be your line of business, right? So you could set up a micro grid 23:57.600 --> 24:00.280 And so long as you're not connecting to the main grid 24:00.280 --> 24:05.720 The public utilities commission has no regulatory authority over you so you can sell it 24:05.720 --> 24:09.460 You can sell it at any rate you want and they can't tell you what rates to charge 24:09.460 --> 24:14.460 They can't tell you how much you can produce or sell they can't tell you what energy sources you can or can't use 24:15.180 --> 24:17.200 It's up to you total total freedom 24:17.840 --> 24:18.400 so 24:18.400 --> 24:23.220 This is a potential solution for things like data centers 24:23.220 --> 24:27.720 But obviously if you're building a community a residential community of like-minded people that would be another 24:28.260 --> 24:31.780 Interesting way you could you could make use of this this legislation 24:31.780 --> 24:36.080 We did have to make the concession that you're not allowed to run 24:36.700 --> 24:38.920 wires across a 24:38.920 --> 24:42.200 State road so that is a that is a limitation 24:43.040 --> 24:48.940 But other than that we have this option now that creates real electric competition 24:48.940 --> 24:50.140 to the 24:50.140 --> 24:56.780 you know legacy monopoly provider and and they were the ones who opposed it I mean they were the ones who who were 24:56.780 --> 25:01.500 Trying to to get it defeated and eventually we had to make that concession to get it passed 25:01.500 --> 25:06.740 But you know New Hampshire's electric rates are fairly high. They're they're lower than other 25:06.740 --> 25:07.940 neighboring states 25:07.940 --> 25:11.200 But the Northeast in general it's pretty expensive 25:11.200 --> 25:16.840 And so I think this is one of the things that that really drove the passage of this legislation 25:16.840 --> 25:23.800 So this could be a solution to our energy problems this could attract manufacturers to the state and so we have a very 25:24.420 --> 25:25.040 pro 25:25.860 --> 25:28.780 Enterprise pro innovation legislature and governor 25:29.420 --> 25:30.520 You know, we're moving 25:31.220 --> 25:34.120 forward very rapidly on things like crypto development 25:34.120 --> 25:39.280 We've legalized decentralized autonomous organizations. There's been a 25:39.980 --> 25:43.400 legislation on advanced nuclear and apparently an executive order 25:43.400 --> 25:46.140 I hear may be forthcoming on on advanced nuclear 25:46.140 --> 25:52.080 We already have a large nuclear power plant that provides over 40% of our electricity 25:52.640 --> 25:59.940 So, you know, we have that culture now in the legislature that really wants to go go go when it comes to these new 25:59.940 --> 26:05.140 Technologies another one is right to compute so there's a bill in the legislature that would 26:05.140 --> 26:11.520 Recognize as a constitutional principle your right to to use AI your right to create your own AI's 26:11.520 --> 26:15.360 Which we hope is the future right of decentralized intelligence 26:15.980 --> 26:21.340 That that could be another thing to kind of take this out of the hands of 26:21.340 --> 26:25.360 Government and huge, you know corporate providers of AI 26:25.360 --> 26:30.260 So this is a talk about the 26:30.840 --> 26:38.020 Culture the attitude that's changed in the legislature and how this is the one thing that was it's unique about New Hampshire 26:38.020 --> 26:46.740 New Hampshire has so many house of representatives that you represent only a few thousand people and everybody knows you at the 26:46.740 --> 26:48.800 you know the grocery store and 26:48.800 --> 26:54.380 It's like four hundred and some five hundred three. It's hundreds, you know of representatives 26:54.380 --> 27:00.660 Then you have the Senate. Well, the senators are around around 30 or something that is 27:00.660 --> 27:07.060 We be the Senate, you know, and we are really real here, you know, that's kind of where things happen 27:07.060 --> 27:10.060 so the house of representatives is 27:11.700 --> 27:17.240 The structure of it to in introduce and pass legislation and bills 27:17.240 --> 27:19.580 How's the Senate on this? 27:19.780 --> 27:22.240 I mean you you guys get a lot of stuff introduced 27:22.240 --> 27:24.020 You even get a lot of stuff passed 27:24.020 --> 27:30.220 But then you got to go up against they them those and you have such an infiltration of New England 27:31.320 --> 27:39.700 Vermont's totally communist, you know Bernie Sanders kind of whatever Massachusetts. Oh my god, you know, New York. Oh my god, Maine 27:39.700 --> 27:46.020 Oh my god, I mean, you know, New Hampshire is like inundated by all of these other interests 27:46.020 --> 27:52.900 And in fact they move in there and unions and NGOs and non-governmental organizations 27:52.900 --> 27:57.580 Doing what they were doing the funding from Boston of they got mine damn 27:57.580 --> 27:58.880 We helped some people 27:58.880 --> 28:07.640 During COVID and so on the love bus Liberty tour in Vermont and got a bead on how New England is run from these NGOs in Boston 28:07.640 --> 28:14.000 They create all these federal programs qualify for if only you have to and we're ripping off taxpayers 28:14.000 --> 28:19.300 And you're obligated and we left it to the local municipality to run it now. You're broke 28:19.300 --> 28:24.480 I mean, I see it over and over same league of cities in towns here in the Southwest 28:24.480 --> 28:30.360 Yeah, we control you got to have a water treatment plant 300 million dollars. You're not allowed to have a septic 28:30.360 --> 28:33.660 I mean, I see this over and over and over 28:33.660 --> 28:39.820 So how are you getting past the Senate? Are you changing them? Are you doing it? How's it going? 28:40.660 --> 28:46.400 Yeah, so one of the things we didn't really think about when we chose New Hampshire that ended up being a huge benefit is the 28:46.400 --> 28:51.640 400 representatives in the State House won for every 3,500 people that made the project scalable the first 28:51.640 --> 28:58.080 Free State project mover to get elected to the state let the state legislature was a state house representative 28:58.080 --> 29:02.680 Get elected as a Democrat back in 2006. This is back during that kind of 29:02.680 --> 29:05.860 revulsion against the Bush neocon policies and 29:06.520 --> 29:11.060 Today all the free stares in the legislature are Republicans because the Democratic Party 29:11.060 --> 29:15.400 In New Hampshire is just as bad as the Democratic Party in Massachusetts 29:15.400 --> 29:20.980 And they try to hunt out anyone who thinks differently as they've all moved to the the Republican Party and 29:21.700 --> 29:26.040 I would say now about 25% of the State House is libertarian 29:26.740 --> 29:31.340 So that's about half of the Republican Party a little less than half of the Republican Party in the state house 29:32.020 --> 29:39.920 That's based on their voting records and in the state Senate. It's now about 15% of the state Senate is libertarian 29:39.920 --> 29:44.640 So the state Senate was a harder nut to crack. We elected a guy back in 2010 29:44.640 --> 29:48.980 Who was a libertarian wrong Paul guy? He only served two years 29:49.540 --> 29:52.840 And then in the last four or five years we've elected 29:54.140 --> 29:59.700 Six state senators who are no not six four four state senators four of 24 30:00.340 --> 30:01.460 That are 30:01.980 --> 30:09.920 Relatively libertarian leaning. So that's the total is 24 senators. Yeah 24 senators and they represent what 24 districts or? 30:10.220 --> 30:13.580 Yeah, 24 districts and those districts are pretty heavily gerrymandered 30:13.580 --> 30:16.440 So it's very difficult for the Republicans to lose that majority 30:16.440 --> 30:23.300 Whereas the state house because there's so many districts. He can't gerrymander them. So that tends to flip back and forth between parties 30:24.560 --> 30:29.560 So it's it's worked out where we are now making progress in the Senate is much more establishment 30:29.560 --> 30:33.600 Even though they only make a hundred dollars a year just like the state reps 30:33.600 --> 30:41.120 They tend to be more professional politicians, you know people who have aspirations of running for governor or they they've been mayors 30:41.120 --> 30:45.220 things like that so they tend to listen more to the lobbyists and 30:46.380 --> 30:48.300 It's it's been a harder nut to crack 30:48.300 --> 30:56.080 but in some ways it's a positive to have two houses that are so different from each other because it means that if we ever lose one of 30:56.080 --> 31:02.980 Those houses there. They actually really do service checks and balances on each other. The other thing I'll note about the neighboring states 31:03.520 --> 31:11.180 Them all being blue is actually an unlooked-for benefit for us in New Hampshire because there are a lot of Republicans and Liberty 31:11.920 --> 31:15.580 Types in New England. They're just out voted everywhere 31:15.580 --> 31:19.640 And so they move to New Hampshire. New Hampshire is the only place for them to go 31:19.640 --> 31:23.220 And so what we've seen is that since 2020 all these 31:23.220 --> 31:29.500 You know political analysts who look at these data sets like catalyst and so on what they've told us 31:29.500 --> 31:34.200 Is that the migration to New Hampshire has been net Republican since 2020? 31:35.500 --> 31:42.500 Not surprising now, you know, one of the things that's different you go to New Hampshire the first thing that I realized 31:43.600 --> 31:49.040 You go to the cash register you go buy, you know clothes a hat, you know a canteen 31:49.040 --> 31:52.760 You know and some scissors I mean whatever the hell you go get stuff 31:52.760 --> 31:58.680 You put it on there and whatever the price is on the shelf is what you pay. There's no sales tax 31:58.680 --> 32:05.580 I know you know that there's no sales tax. Okay, you know, that's cool and you go, but it just it just dawned on me 32:06.160 --> 32:09.460 I don't have to do math. I know how much it's gonna cost 32:09.460 --> 32:17.100 It's like comes off that that's just psychologically that I've never been used that keeps changing all the time wherever you go 32:17.100 --> 32:22.480 It's six percent seven percent a billion percent. It's good, you know, whatever it says on the shelf 32:22.480 --> 32:24.000 That's what you pay at the register 32:24.640 --> 32:27.960 All right. All right. All right. All right. The other thing is 32:27.960 --> 32:33.300 No personal income tax, you know in New Hampshire, but where do they get you? 32:34.900 --> 32:38.160 Property tax man, they're gonna get you get some there 32:38.160 --> 32:45.420 But if you have at least I know it's 10 12 15 acres or something like that if you structure it in such a way and 32:45.420 --> 32:50.880 You throw a cow on it or a pig or something, you know your agriculture within it drops a great deal 32:50.880 --> 32:55.820 So you need to know that going there how to protect yourself against, you know high taxes 32:55.820 --> 33:00.060 And if you're renting or whatever you're paying the property taxes just get over it 33:00.060 --> 33:04.840 So talk about the tax structure now, of course all this time 33:05.420 --> 33:11.680 There's always some bill state legislature. They'll live free or die state. They definitely want to get that out 33:11.680 --> 33:17.200 They're like, no, we got there's always a bill to kind of do away with that, you know phrase for some reason 33:17.200 --> 33:21.700 There's always we need an income tax. There's always we need some more, you know 33:21.700 --> 33:26.240 tax taxes some tax and increase the tax so the idea 33:27.200 --> 33:31.180 That people living in New Hampshire are protected against income 33:31.800 --> 33:37.660 Sales tax and you can kind of finagle your property tax. How much under attack that is 33:37.660 --> 33:42.560 How does that affect the spending and any deficit if there is explain that? 33:42.980 --> 33:43.880 Yeah, so 33:43.880 --> 33:51.370 You know as far as I'm concerned. I am happy for left-wing Democrats to keep talking about an income tax and 33:52.570 --> 34:01.570 Abolishing live free or die because every time they talk about that it mobilizes the conservatives and independence in New Hampshire to oppose them at the ballot box 34:01.570 --> 34:05.370 so, you know that that kind of 34:06.050 --> 34:08.590 Granite heart of New Hampshire is solid 34:10.210 --> 34:14.630 I've talked to Democrats in my town including one of our state reps and he said, you know 34:14.630 --> 34:16.510 I I moved here for the low taxes 34:16.510 --> 34:20.170 we want to keep the low taxes that is that is a 34:20.850 --> 34:24.870 Part of the culture of New Hampshire, and I don't think that will ever change 34:24.870 --> 34:27.530 Yes, the tax structure is extremely 34:28.050 --> 34:31.330 Decentralized because it's heavily relies on property taxes 34:31.330 --> 34:40.050 So about two-thirds of total tax collections in New Hampshire are decided at the town level 34:40.050 --> 34:47.070 Not just the county level, but the town level and towns are tiny so you can choose your mix of 34:47.070 --> 34:50.010 Public services and taxes that you want to pay 34:50.010 --> 34:57.190 If you want to live in a town with really fancy schools and a town beach that they maintain and things like that 34:57.190 --> 35:00.950 And pay high property taxes for the privilege 35:00.950 --> 35:04.270 Then you're certainly free to do that if you want to live out in the woods 35:04.890 --> 35:09.050 Get ten acres put your land into current use, which is the the the 35:09.050 --> 35:11.070 Strategy you were talking about there Ernie 35:11.770 --> 35:15.830 And they don't they have low cost of living don't spend a lot on their schools 35:15.830 --> 35:19.170 You can pay very very little in property taxes 35:19.170 --> 35:25.090 In fact, there are some places in New Hampshire where you pay next to nothing in property taxes 35:25.750 --> 35:28.810 But they don't you know, they don't have any kids things like that 35:28.810 --> 35:35.230 So so that is one of the other advantages actually of New Hampshire's you have a lot of choice of government 35:35.230 --> 35:37.850 You can choose what kind of government you want to live under 35:38.810 --> 35:41.230 You know I wanted I want to share this one 35:41.850 --> 35:43.430 example when we were there 35:44.090 --> 35:46.850 During the Ron Paul revolution of 07 and 8 35:47.370 --> 35:49.590 We were there a week before Christmas 35:49.590 --> 35:55.650 Then we had Christmas New Years and we came back a week after for another week and you know deal with primary 35:56.210 --> 36:01.850 That particular year it was record snow falls 137 inches. Oh my god 36:03.430 --> 36:08.650 Man are we locked in are we you know here on the cabin on the lake forever and how we got stuff to do 36:09.710 --> 36:18.490 What happened is by God 6 7 in the morning all the roads are clear now we were in Boston before that I 36:19.110 --> 36:23.650 Visited on you know personal stuff before and it was you know the city shuts down 36:23.650 --> 36:29.190 I mean you know said New Hampshire is different and this is why I go like how did they do this? 36:29.230 --> 36:34.650 What what's going on? They don't count on the municipal, you know, you have you know the town 36:34.650 --> 36:37.870 You got the county the state they'll do highways or this or that way 36:37.870 --> 36:42.990 But the vast majority of the roads that got cleared or by the people that live there 36:42.990 --> 36:44.690 They just got they got they 36:45.190 --> 36:50.730 They they're pickup truck and four-wheel drive has got a snowpile on the front for six months just the way it is 36:50.730 --> 36:56.050 So what happens is it's free market and then when you get you know free staters coming in they go 36:56.050 --> 37:04.010 I will plow your road your parking lot your school your whatever business of you know for that'll be a hundred and fifty dollars 37:05.350 --> 37:08.390 But if you pay in silver or crypto is a hundred dollars, you know 37:09.190 --> 37:12.330 Man you start getting it in the economy. They figured that out 37:12.330 --> 37:17.530 So this is how I experienced New Hampshire even before the free state 37:17.530 --> 37:23.890 You know it was really you know taken off by then it already started and it was just so awesome 37:23.890 --> 37:27.910 To see the people didn't wait for the government 37:27.910 --> 37:34.450 That's why it was done so fast and the reason is because like you say it's disperse population 37:34.650 --> 37:37.390 It's out in the middle of we don't even know you're there 37:37.390 --> 37:41.010 And if you're not doing or got a neighbor doing it don't get done in time 37:41.010 --> 37:47.530 So it's just part of the culture. They don't expect you know, well, yeah here in Arizona 37:47.530 --> 37:54.970 We get californicated you have some small towns got it going on and you know, it's a mining lumber and and 37:54.970 --> 38:02.650 You know logging of whatever the hell that they're doing their tourism and then here comes all the politicians 38:02.650 --> 38:06.990 They get run out of California. They come over to get californicated. They're like you 38:07.490 --> 38:11.710 You don't have sidewalks. Where's your street lights? Where's the park stuff there? 38:11.990 --> 38:18.110 Yeah, man, you got a mandate of government pursuit of happiness is government's job to make you happy and I'm going 38:18.110 --> 38:22.450 Oh, man, you you're killing us. New Hampshire did not go down that road 38:22.450 --> 38:28.070 They do not expect now, of course all the states around them and people probably screaming it 38:28.070 --> 38:35.870 But I want you to explain that phenomenon. How is it that New Hampshire is so much more reliant? 38:36.270 --> 38:42.550 Locally, what is at the core of that being inundated by status? How is that possible? 38:42.910 --> 38:48.010 Yeah, I think it goes back to what Alexis to Tocqueville talked about in democracy in America 38:48.010 --> 38:50.030 And he traveled throughout the US 38:50.030 --> 38:54.530 But he was particularly fascinated by New England because he noticed that in New England 38:54.530 --> 39:01.590 The towns were the center of everything so people would get together with their neighbors to solve crimes and and to 39:02.210 --> 39:05.030 build roads and to clear snow and everything like that 39:05.030 --> 39:09.590 was a town affair a neighborhood affair and 39:09.590 --> 39:15.690 People knew that they had to rely on each other as neighbors and so it built that culture of what? 39:16.290 --> 39:21.330 Political scientists sometimes call social capital right where there's it's a high-trust society 39:21.330 --> 39:26.510 Where you engage with your neighbors to get to get things done and yes 39:27.250 --> 39:33.270 plowing is largely a free market in New Hampshire, so the roads themselves unless they're private roads 39:33.270 --> 39:40.370 Town governments will plow, but yeah, you hire your your plow guy or you do it yourself 39:41.330 --> 39:49.890 Trash pickup is not done by municipalities. I've never seen trash be a municipal function in New Hampshire. We have 39:50.490 --> 39:55.070 Private providers for profit providers who sell trash pick up to you and you have your choice 39:55.650 --> 39:58.610 This is a cultural thing. Where did that come from? 40:00.030 --> 40:04.030 Well, you know, I it's just across the border a like that 40:05.090 --> 40:09.440 Yeah, yeah, you know, you'd be surprised. There are some parts of 40:10.270 --> 40:16.630 Maine and Vermont and and even parts of Massachusetts, especially Western mass that still have a lot of that 40:17.190 --> 40:22.630 But yeah, it is disappearing in a lot of those places. I think it is a holdover from 40:23.330 --> 40:23.930 when 40:24.590 --> 40:27.750 You just didn't have these services provided by government 40:27.750 --> 40:29.990 So you built alternative institutions to do it 40:29.990 --> 40:35.370 And if you didn't have government providing these things then civil society in the market took took its place 40:35.370 --> 40:38.790 And it's kind of hard to get that back once you've lost it 40:40.070 --> 40:43.930 Yeah, I and it's under attack by whom what? 40:45.650 --> 40:47.710 Yeah, you know, I think it's a 40:47.710 --> 40:55.550 Part of it is people being lazy, right? So part of it is people wanting a free lunch voters wanting a free lunch 40:56.070 --> 41:03.050 You know wanting a large institutions to just take care of them without having to think about it and solve problems for themselves 41:03.930 --> 41:06.170 But yeah, part of it is also just 41:06.850 --> 41:11.150 You know, we we ended up making some mistakes and I've seen this with 41:11.670 --> 41:14.650 with how states set up their finances where 41:15.350 --> 41:18.870 Cities and school districts and so on have become dependent on state governments 41:18.870 --> 41:23.670 So state governments have grown a lot in size and power over the last hundred years 41:23.670 --> 41:25.970 Not just the federal government state governments, too 41:25.970 --> 41:27.170 and 41:27.170 --> 41:28.010 they 41:28.010 --> 41:33.710 Get their hands in the in the in the pie and are redistributing wealth across 41:34.270 --> 41:41.130 Cities across counties and they're doing it because in some cases in response to court decisions in some cases 41:41.150 --> 41:47.550 In response to to interest groups in the legislature that that lobby for this, you know, you mentioned the League of Cities 41:48.130 --> 41:48.870 you know 41:49.590 --> 41:53.670 In every state I've been in there. They're a lobbyist for state money 41:54.270 --> 42:00.230 And for lack of accountability at the local level and certainly we have some problems with that even in New Hampshire with our 42:00.230 --> 42:03.630 Municipal Association, so we're fighting them 42:04.790 --> 42:06.870 Seems like every year in the legislature 42:07.490 --> 42:11.890 So, yeah, those are those are some of the factors that that that you've seen and 42:12.710 --> 42:15.850 Most states including the state where I grew up, Texas 42:15.850 --> 42:23.550 You've seen, you know, state government get involved and local governments and and people in neighborhoods have become dependent on 42:23.550 --> 42:27.750 the state and federal governments and for whatever reason maybe it's just 42:28.470 --> 42:32.750 Lots of checks and balances that never happened really in New Hampshire 42:32.750 --> 42:39.390 And so everything is kind of remained at the town level for the most part and and people have adapted to it 42:40.810 --> 42:45.070 What do you mean they've adapted to it they had adopted it became cultural thing 42:45.670 --> 42:52.450 Yeah, so they live for your dying doctor nation right after the pledge or something. I mean, you know, how's that done? 42:53.070 --> 42:59.870 I think it's just that people have created alternative solutions for themselves. So, you know, they know that 43:00.410 --> 43:07.670 Their school budget is going to be funded locally. So people pay close attention to how the school is performing 43:08.230 --> 43:13.410 You know this when you were preparing your paper. Is this stuff that was consideration or not? 43:13.870 --> 43:18.690 I knew I knew nothing about that. I knew very little about New Hampshire. I lived in Connecticut at the time 43:18.690 --> 43:24.590 I just knew that's where the mountains were and that seemed kind of cool. Well, how did it do Hampshire? I mean was that 43:25.130 --> 43:28.750 You know one that was on top of your list as you were doing this 43:28.750 --> 43:35.510 How did New Hampshire come to the fore in the beginning of the Free State project with the 5,000 that voted to begin with? 43:36.250 --> 43:38.250 Yeah, so it wasn't me personally 43:38.250 --> 43:42.490 I was open to go wherever except my wife said we're not going to Alaska 43:42.490 --> 43:47.750 Which was kind of a pity because I thought oh Alaska might be kind of neat that might you know, especially if you're interested in 43:47.750 --> 43:54.290 Independence, but yeah, so we so we opted out of Alaska, but we were open to the other states 43:55.230 --> 43:58.570 But really yeah, I was any different. I mean damn 44:00.830 --> 44:06.870 Freaking cold man. It's freaking cold. I like the climate. I know I know not everyone does and yes 44:06.870 --> 44:10.110 New Hampshire has has longer winters than a lot of other places 44:10.650 --> 44:14.830 But you know, I like some cold and snow. I like seasons and it is 44:15.410 --> 44:22.330 Very nice people take care of business. Yeah, you know, I like I like the balsam furs and the types of 44:22.330 --> 44:29.430 Plants that you get up north, you know, that just appeals to me somehow. There's something that feels kind of rugged and independent about it 44:30.770 --> 44:36.370 But yeah, I was it was really that there was a very strong libertarian party in New Hampshire at the time 44:36.370 --> 44:42.350 They'd even elected some people to the state legislature on fusion balance. So they were got elected as libertarian Republicans 44:43.130 --> 44:48.530 Don Gorman was kind of the godfather of the libertarian movement there and in New Hampshire 44:48.530 --> 44:52.770 And he was on the Libertarian National Committee for a while and a lot of those folks got very involved 44:52.770 --> 44:58.350 They held an event called escape to New Hampshire in 2003 that prefigured pork fest 44:58.350 --> 45:04.710 So that was some people called pork fest zero is held at Rogers campground and in Lancaster and was meant to showcase the state 45:04.710 --> 45:09.470 I didn't go to that event. I went to the Grand Western conference in Missoula, Montana 45:09.470 --> 45:16.710 Which is held at the same time by Western state advocates to try to advocate for you know, Montana or Wyoming or a state like that 45:17.390 --> 45:20.890 And our vice president went to the escape to new to New Hampshire 45:21.510 --> 45:28.950 But that was that was what swayed the voters really was all the effort New Hampshire people put in to tout the benefits of the state and 45:28.950 --> 45:34.210 To get the governor supportive to talk about the low taxes to talk about the you know 45:34.210 --> 45:38.990 Personal freedoms that New Hampshire had to offer at that time and that really swayed the voters 45:38.990 --> 45:44.010 Well, you're a young in I mean, you're not that old. I was a everybody called me kid till I was 40 45:44.010 --> 45:52.110 But you know, I'm I you were college student. I mean, were you surprised the adoption of the concept? I 45:52.110 --> 45:59.690 Was I really hoped when I wrote the paper that someone more experienced than I would would pick up on it and that we could hire 45:59.690 --> 46:02.750 this sort of you know 46:03.470 --> 46:10.510 Experienced non-profit libertarian executive to run this thing but that didn't happen and to this day 46:10.510 --> 46:15.630 The Free State Project has been a very grassroots organization. We depend on volunteers. We don't have a huge annual budget 46:15.630 --> 46:22.810 We do have a full-time executive director Eric Brakey was former formerly a state senator in in Maine and to take this job 46:22.810 --> 46:25.910 He moved to New Hampshire and he's the biggest booster of New Hampshire 46:26.730 --> 46:31.890 Out there because he's seen where Maine has gone and New Hampshire's gone in the opposite direction 46:32.670 --> 46:39.490 So we we are able to put things together and have our annual events that the porcupine freedom festival in summer and 46:39.490 --> 46:46.150 Liberty form and winter and continue recruiting people to New Hampshire. We do outreach events and especially in neighboring states 46:46.150 --> 46:49.290 We go to gun shows. We go to health freedom events. We go to 46:50.370 --> 46:50.850 homeschool 46:50.850 --> 46:53.990 Exposed and we talked about the Free State Project and not everyone's interested 46:53.990 --> 47:00.210 But some people are and and we present our ideas and a lot of them end up signing up and and moving to New Hampshire 47:00.210 --> 47:02.830 So we encourage people to visit first 47:03.850 --> 47:08.670 Ernie you showed all the events that are happening all the time if you go to 47:08.670 --> 47:11.970 Fsp org slash calendar. You'll see what's going on in the state 47:11.970 --> 47:16.630 You can drop us a line and we're happy to show you around and and show you what's happening 47:16.630 --> 47:21.130 It's very exciting. You can kind of find your tribe find your community in New Hampshire 47:21.130 --> 47:26.430 That's been one of the real personal benefits of getting involved in the Free State Project is 47:27.130 --> 47:31.710 Being able to form a community. It's not just all about the policy change 47:31.710 --> 47:33.130 It's really about 47:33.630 --> 47:39.530 You know finding finding people who are good friends and whom you stand behind and who will stand by you 47:41.870 --> 47:44.130 Lots of events anytime I go there 47:44.130 --> 47:49.410 You know matter of fact we had a good friend of mine that was from Mass to right across the border 47:49.410 --> 47:51.210 I can't remember the name of the town, but 47:51.930 --> 47:58.330 Kings were something anyways just south of the border there in fact he goes New Hampshire and goes shopping 47:58.330 --> 48:00.070 You know it goes to you know, but the 48:01.990 --> 48:04.970 I wanted him to meet the guys up there 48:04.970 --> 48:08.970 So he became friends with you know Derek and Jay and you know with the port fast 48:08.970 --> 48:14.010 And so I've been trying to get him to go for a decade and he retired, you know from his job here 48:14.010 --> 48:18.870 And you know he goes there he joined the quill and you know 48:18.870 --> 48:21.670 He doesn't get to make use of it all that much or a thing 48:21.670 --> 48:28.650 But that wasn't the point it was to be supportive of the concept support that which you want to see more of 48:29.490 --> 48:29.930 but 48:30.630 --> 48:35.030 What's the one thing I don't want to see more more politics man you 48:37.390 --> 48:42.290 But that doesn't mean I don't run I mean I stopped voting no too because I know better, but 48:42.810 --> 48:49.110 You know I've run for Congress three times US Senate against McCain Secretary of State twice legislate guy 48:49.110 --> 48:53.570 I'm a runner. Whoo, man. I'll be running. Hello. I got an argument 48:53.570 --> 48:58.490 So I see that as an opportunity, but you guys are going for the win 48:58.490 --> 49:01.230 They'll get in and get something done. Well 49:02.450 --> 49:09.130 How's that working out? I mean my advocacy was go there be an entrepreneur lead your life another thing like Patrick 49:10.350 --> 49:16.610 General contractor for building. You don't need a license. Hey, I'll build your house. Okay. We'll get your house over here and build it 49:16.610 --> 49:23.730 Okay, I'm going what how the hell did they manage to get away with that? Well, you know because I don't know 49:23.730 --> 49:27.190 New Hampshire it's this attitude. It's this mindset 49:27.190 --> 49:33.210 Even though you got a lot of liberal whatever we want to take your money and property taxing crease to do what I want to do with it 49:33.210 --> 49:41.030 Whatever, but the people at least it's local they get involved and I've seen what different individuals there in their small community of 49:41.030 --> 49:46.690 Oh, no, it's a free stator. How can we get them? Let's let's attack them for something 49:46.690 --> 49:51.350 I mean oh, we got an ordinance for something then they push back then everybody comes in 49:51.350 --> 50:00.050 You know, which is why Crosby the owner of Rogers campground up has been defending the free state project having their festival and up 50:00.050 --> 50:05.790 There against the man, you know for a long time and he's in his god late 80s or something now 50:05.790 --> 50:07.730 You know he needs some props, but the 50:08.770 --> 50:09.310 idea 50:09.310 --> 50:12.450 That you're willing to resist 50:13.110 --> 50:17.730 Resistance is not futile. You're willing to push back. You're willing to help a neighbor 50:17.730 --> 50:25.050 You're willing to go to their hearings. You're willing to go and protest and have and whatever. Oh my god, maybe even boat, but 50:26.830 --> 50:32.030 Is there a place for just osmosis, you know, I'm a good neighbor 50:32.030 --> 50:35.230 I'm sponsored the local little league team, you know 50:35.230 --> 50:36.490 I'm you know, yes 50:36.490 --> 50:41.730 I am libertarian and I'm here to help to run to run, but I don't give a crap about politics 50:41.730 --> 50:46.850 Or is it you took a nose some bitch you move here. You better get your ass out there and work 50:46.850 --> 50:52.810 So what is of course your preference is making you get that power-sharing thing, you know 50:52.810 --> 50:56.970 I give you props for that because that was kind of surprising, but you know 50:57.890 --> 51:01.570 Are the others welcome or you damn it? You're not doing it, right? 51:01.650 --> 51:05.750 You better get busy and doing the business of politics. What's your view? 51:06.510 --> 51:11.710 You're all welcome. So long as you support a free society living our lifetime 51:12.730 --> 51:17.090 That's that's who we want. No one's gonna check up on you. No one's gonna say 51:17.630 --> 51:20.910 You know, you're not you're not doing it doing enough 51:21.510 --> 51:24.550 People are not gonna do that. So it's really up to you 51:26.110 --> 51:28.710 But what you know what I will say is 51:29.290 --> 51:34.710 There's nothing quite like having an idea for getting government out of the way 51:34.710 --> 51:39.170 Taking that idea to a legislator and it gets in the law 51:39.790 --> 51:42.110 you know a year later and 51:42.110 --> 51:46.150 That's happened to me a few times the first time it happened was when I 51:46.710 --> 51:50.190 Notice that New Hampshire had this provision where if you wanted to start a moving company 51:50.190 --> 51:54.330 You wanted to move household goods like if people's you know, you're moving house 51:55.610 --> 52:01.470 You in every state you've got to get a bond and file something with the state 52:01.470 --> 52:04.850 But in New Hampshire like about 25 other states 52:04.850 --> 52:09.770 You also had to go through a public hearing where your competitors were first notified about this 52:09.770 --> 52:13.130 And that seemed absurd right just to come completely anti-competitive 52:13.130 --> 52:17.090 So I just went to a legislator at a New Hampshire Liberty Alliance 52:18.190 --> 52:23.450 Summit where where you get to talk to legislators and I said, you know, can we do something about this? 52:23.630 --> 52:27.670 So it got written up sail through the house on a voice vote sail through the Senate on a voice vote 52:27.670 --> 52:32.330 The governor signed it and now if you want to start that kind of company, you know 52:32.330 --> 52:35.150 Your red tape is dramatically reduced 52:35.690 --> 52:39.770 So that's the kind of thing that you can do where you know 52:39.770 --> 52:43.770 It's just a clean win for Liberty and it's not even that much work 52:44.590 --> 52:49.210 And people are doing this all the time work. We're we're scour there are hundreds of people 52:49.210 --> 52:53.890 Scouring the law books for things we can get rid of every year and 52:54.950 --> 53:01.690 We're about to get rid of them that New Hampshire was well known for fully informed jury 53:02.630 --> 53:04.830 That kind of thing you know the the juries 53:05.770 --> 53:12.030 Here in Arizona, we really pushed that one and what happened was we had a state legislator 53:12.030 --> 53:17.610 You know in door we got a lot of attention that moved the furthest in the nation of oh my god, Arizona 53:18.130 --> 53:21.310 But it was heavily opposed they went after you're not allowed 53:21.310 --> 53:26.370 so we kept pushing it and pushing it and pushing it in a lot of different activist ways and 53:27.270 --> 53:34.010 Finally it came out to where it made it up to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court issues this, you know 53:34.010 --> 53:38.610 Not even in a lawsuit. They just you know, I this is our opinion get over it 53:40.010 --> 53:45.090 Yes, you have the power to nullify the law as a juror and just vote not guilty 53:46.110 --> 53:46.550 but 53:47.650 --> 53:52.250 We have no obligation to tell you so get over it, you know, so I was like you sons of bitches 53:52.250 --> 53:57.210 Well, that was the whole point is that in New Hampshire you have a criminal case 53:57.210 --> 54:02.270 You go now if your sense of justice is that you know, yeah, maybe he did it, but it 54:03.290 --> 54:07.390 Stupidly applied or done the injustice to the voting vote not guilty 54:07.390 --> 54:13.730 Now is that still there that you are as a juror informed that you can vote not guilty? 54:14.630 --> 54:15.850 Yeah, it is still there 54:15.850 --> 54:18.710 So if the defense has to bring it up 54:18.710 --> 54:24.830 I believe but if the defense at trial brings it up the judge has to give an instruction to the jury that 54:25.370 --> 54:32.830 Yes, they do have this right and that was enacted in 2011 after a bunch of free status got elected to the legislature for the very first time 54:33.570 --> 54:36.930 You know the first time we had double-digit number of free status in the legislature 54:36.930 --> 54:40.670 So that was that was a big win. Just you know one of dozens 54:41.510 --> 54:47.310 That I that I could talk about and and I think New Hampshire still might be unique on that one 54:48.410 --> 54:54.070 I I've been on props that was you know just out of principle, you know that yeah 54:54.070 --> 55:00.070 You have that power that we're not gonna tell you into the point that defense attorneys were getting trouble 55:00.070 --> 55:05.850 They get bar complaints. I mean they they definitely did not want you knowing that that's stupid not guilty 55:05.850 --> 55:09.410 Well, he did it. So what I don't care. It's dumb not guilty 55:09.410 --> 55:14.490 so that concept is there anybody you say not guilty all you want but they 55:15.050 --> 55:22.450 You will follow my instructions of the judge or or some bad will happen to you. I mean, you know, it's just I hate this shit 55:22.450 --> 55:23.850 so this is 55:24.490 --> 55:31.950 You get the power you surplus generation of power you can sell to your neighbors score you have local 55:33.150 --> 55:40.450 Funding with their local property taxes for the children and the schools and so on home schooling is a big thing 55:40.450 --> 55:43.230 It's not that big a deal to do there. You have 55:44.230 --> 55:49.910 Fully informed juries, you know for when you get criminally charged with whatever you go to trial 55:49.910 --> 55:53.790 You have so it seems like the people in New Hampshire 55:54.630 --> 55:59.370 Doesn't have that much, you know problem with local state government 55:59.370 --> 56:08.150 Which means that the feds are you know extra diligent and making sure that this doesn't spread as a mind virus 56:08.150 --> 56:10.030 How far off have my 56:10.910 --> 56:14.970 Yeah, I think you're right. That is going to be the hardest nut to crack the federal government 56:16.050 --> 56:22.330 So what can we do in New Hampshire to insulate ourselves from craziness that happens there? 56:22.770 --> 56:25.050 I mean, I've been writing about 56:25.590 --> 56:31.350 Practical ways that a state could opt out of social security for example. It's a pretty radical idea 56:31.350 --> 56:37.550 I think it's a good one though and as the federal government gets more and more bankrupt 56:38.110 --> 56:38.770 I think 56:39.310 --> 56:40.870 They're gonna start to take a look at this 56:40.870 --> 56:47.410 They're gonna start to let states go because they're gonna have no choice. They're not gonna have the money to basically enforce 56:49.050 --> 56:52.590 Securities regulation and drug laws and gun laws and everything else 56:52.590 --> 56:57.270 I mean they can't enforce drug laws right now. I mean that's that there are federal drug laws 56:57.270 --> 57:00.630 The federal government can't enforce them and so it really falls on the states 57:01.490 --> 57:05.110 What happens when all of the federal government is that way? So I think 57:05.630 --> 57:11.810 You know, there's an effort here for the state to really kind of push the envelope and actually I'll mention another 57:11.810 --> 57:14.390 Area where we actually are doing that right now 57:14.390 --> 57:22.210 With respect to the FDA New Hampshire has passed the most extensive right to try law in the country 57:22.210 --> 57:25.330 For people who have a life-threatening illness 57:25.330 --> 57:30.030 so you don't have to get any FDA approval to 57:30.890 --> 57:33.270 market sell and administer a 57:34.190 --> 57:39.110 Drug that has been made in state. So, you know, if it hasn't crossed state lines 57:39.780 --> 57:40.890 You can 57:41.590 --> 57:46.290 market and administer to to patients with a life-threatening illness and there's 57:46.290 --> 57:47.690 There are civil liability 57:47.690 --> 57:51.570 Productions built in as well if you've gotten informed consent from the patient 57:51.570 --> 57:54.970 They can't sue you on the grounds that this isn't FDA approved 57:55.450 --> 57:57.030 So we'll see how this works 57:57.030 --> 58:02.330 But the idea is that we're gonna attract frontier biotech to the state because they know they don't have to go through this 58:02.330 --> 58:04.690 multi-billion-dollar process of getting 58:04.690 --> 58:10.330 Well, that also applies to things like you're just like going down the Bill of Rights and 58:10.330 --> 58:13.830 Plots we have liberty self ownership kind of thing, you know 58:15.190 --> 58:21.250 Guns, you know, how's gun rights in New Hampshire? Yeah, so we're the number one to a state in the country 58:21.250 --> 58:25.710 I don't think that's controversial. We have virtually no gun laws 58:26.210 --> 58:28.370 the only gun law 58:28.370 --> 58:30.890 we have is 58:30.890 --> 58:34.730 Well, we have two gun laws actually I've just learned about a second one 58:34.730 --> 58:38.050 so we have a law that says you're not allowed to carry a 58:39.410 --> 58:44.770 Firearm into a courthouse as a private citizen. Okay, you can carry them into schools 58:44.770 --> 58:50.990 You can carry them into voting booths bars wherever without a permit concealed open whatever 58:50.990 --> 58:54.870 But not into a courthouse. You can carry them into the state house 58:56.910 --> 58:59.750 Concealed not open as a private citizen 59:00.950 --> 59:05.110 Then I also understand there's another law that says that 59:06.590 --> 59:11.950 Felon gun ownership so you're not allowed to own a gun as a felon and I believe our law is slightly 59:11.950 --> 59:17.330 broader than the federal law I've been I've been told that that is the case so we have those two gun laws 59:17.330 --> 59:19.270 Otherwise, there are no restrictions 59:19.910 --> 59:23.710 Essentially like we don't have even minimum age limits for 59:24.510 --> 59:27.330 You know owning or carrying 59:29.150 --> 59:34.590 Firearms we don't have and you know restrictions on on where you can go beyond on 59:34.590 --> 59:43.690 Training certification permit reciprocal whether that kind of BS. No, it's all constitutional carry open or concealed 59:43.690 --> 59:44.890 boom 59:45.490 --> 59:51.070 Boomity boom boom without a boom. Yeah, this is this is you know, give me some other 59:52.510 --> 59:56.990 Examples that New Hampshire's enticing to Liberty lovers, you know, it's 59:57.330 --> 59:58.130 what about 59:58.890 --> 01:00:01.090 building permits and you know 01:00:01.650 --> 01:00:08.230 Self-construction of my land, you know, my castle bite me. I mean, you know, how's that go? 01:00:08.490 --> 01:00:15.570 Yeah, so this is something I work on a lot and it's actually one of the areas where in some respects 01:00:15.570 --> 01:00:19.270 New Hampshire is below average still worse than average because 01:00:20.010 --> 01:00:26.330 We allow our towns a lot of room to pass zoning regulations 01:00:26.330 --> 01:00:30.590 And many of them have passed very stringent zoning regulations 01:00:30.590 --> 01:00:36.290 And I think a lot of that has to do with Republican fear of big cities and to dense development 01:00:36.290 --> 01:00:39.850 So we have some very strict minimum lot sizes and things like that 01:00:39.850 --> 01:00:42.910 So if you want to subdivide your land, they can be difficult 01:00:43.550 --> 01:00:50.130 But last year the state passed 17 bills to ease building on your own land 01:00:50.890 --> 01:00:53.570 And so there are many many things we did 01:00:55.070 --> 01:01:00.170 17 17 why what the hell what was the gist of the whole thing? 01:01:00.970 --> 01:01:01.930 Yeah, so 01:01:02.490 --> 01:01:04.390 You can now build an 01:01:05.550 --> 01:01:08.070 ADU accessory dwelling unit or in-law apartment 01:01:08.970 --> 01:01:14.190 Attached or detached on your land if you have a single-family home and it's by right. They cannot 01:01:14.950 --> 01:01:19.970 Hold up the permit. You can just go in to the building department. They have to give you a permit 01:01:23.950 --> 01:01:26.110 Yeah, you don't have to get a building permit 01:01:27.650 --> 01:01:33.690 It's a shallow issue. I mean kind of thing. It's all issue. It's shallow. This is here in southeastern Arizona 01:01:33.690 --> 01:01:39.510 Cochise County up a Mexican border east of Tucson. They have a county that it's called the opt-out 01:01:39.510 --> 01:01:41.550 You can go in and get a permit 01:01:42.190 --> 01:01:46.610 To not get any more permits. No, no shit is that you know 01:01:47.770 --> 01:01:48.830 See that's why I'm 01:01:48.830 --> 01:01:55.150 How about I didn't get a permit to not get any more permits I didn't need a permit about that how about that 01:01:55.150 --> 01:02:00.490 We do have a number of towns that technically require a building permit 01:02:00.490 --> 01:02:05.970 But in fact, they have no building inspectors so you can effectively do whatever you want 01:02:06.670 --> 01:02:10.190 And so I've actually known people who've built their own houses as a guy 01:02:10.190 --> 01:02:15.150 I know I'm the town of Grafton who's who built a house with 01:02:15.730 --> 01:02:17.070 you know, basically 01:02:18.070 --> 01:02:20.570 Concrete walls. It's like the thing is a bunker 01:02:21.470 --> 01:02:25.830 And he didn't you know, he didn't get any perp pull any permits or get any inspections 01:02:25.830 --> 01:02:29.590 He just he just built it gradually and it's it's actually a nice house now 01:02:29.590 --> 01:02:35.890 Now what else well outside of any kind of municipal jurisdiction is there a lot of open land that's not in a municipality? 01:02:36.890 --> 01:02:43.090 No, not a lot. There is some but unlike the West we don't have a lot of unincorporated land 01:02:43.090 --> 01:02:50.250 So most of the land is inside incorporated municipalities, but we do have some unincorporated townships 01:02:50.250 --> 01:02:50.730 They're called 01:02:51.630 --> 01:02:55.730 Including one interesting place one of those townships is completely private 01:02:55.730 --> 01:03:01.790 So it is a it's not for everyone because it's a it's like a homeowners Association 01:03:02.410 --> 01:03:04.350 but they have a 01:03:05.090 --> 01:03:10.630 Virtually zero property taxes and you'll pay like a few hundred bucks a year. I think in property tax 01:03:11.250 --> 01:03:16.710 And it's it's called hails location. It's like a golf community. It's actually a nice place 01:03:16.710 --> 01:03:19.210 They've got a hotel and restaurant on on site there 01:03:19.830 --> 01:03:25.430 And and the houses are kind of expensive and obviously the homeowners Association might restrict what you build 01:03:25.430 --> 01:03:30.250 But there's no there's no zoning. There's no building department or anything like that because it's all private 01:03:30.250 --> 01:03:37.230 But there are also other places in the far north country where there is no land use regulation 01:03:37.230 --> 01:03:39.550 There's there's no planning board. There's no 01:03:40.230 --> 01:03:43.750 Zoning board and you can essentially do what you want 01:03:43.750 --> 01:03:50.210 And in many of those places also have ultra low property taxes because there's very little infrastructure 01:03:50.910 --> 01:03:55.430 In fact, there are some townships that have no population right now 01:03:55.430 --> 01:04:01.190 So theoretically, you know, it's privately owned land. Most of its logging companies and stuff like that 01:04:01.810 --> 01:04:06.770 Sometimes, you know campgrounds with just people who are there seasonally no permanent population 01:04:06.770 --> 01:04:14.170 You could go there buy some land put up a house and pay zero property tax and have no one bothering you at all 01:04:14.730 --> 01:04:19.130 So that's definitely something that is possible in a few places still in New Hampshire 01:04:19.830 --> 01:04:21.070 as we have 01:04:21.850 --> 01:04:28.770 technology allows for, you know, good communication you got communication you have 01:04:30.030 --> 01:04:36.530 Generation of power hell they got mobile freakin nuclear reactor units now. I mean, it'll be you know 01:04:36.770 --> 01:04:37.310 You know 01:04:38.330 --> 01:04:44.010 Thorium reactor molten salt reactor you put on the back of a semi and you have a small township and 01:04:44.630 --> 01:04:49.430 We're done with you all we do our own thing you get, you know a few shipping containers a lot 01:04:49.430 --> 01:04:55.250 Caponics growing through I mean technology is getting to the point that whatever reason you have for this government 01:04:55.250 --> 01:05:00.290 We have to save you and you don't know how to do it and we want you to keep breathing in and out and you 01:05:00.290 --> 01:05:00.790 got to vote 01:05:01.770 --> 01:05:10.750 Go it away just as a concept and to have the free state project setting this example and then these kind of 01:05:11.670 --> 01:05:13.030 Abilities to be 01:05:13.030 --> 01:05:14.930 un molested by the man 01:05:14.930 --> 01:05:22.450 That is part of the culture in New Hampshire is an example. It's a bad example for the status 01:05:22.450 --> 01:05:28.110 They're like these people are living free. They're so freakin not allowed. You might inspire somebody 01:05:28.110 --> 01:05:31.470 So this is when the people go there 01:05:32.550 --> 01:05:37.030 Just by them being there and supportive of you know leave me alone as them 01:05:38.070 --> 01:05:39.110 Is infectious? 01:05:39.870 --> 01:05:40.710 How is it? 01:05:41.570 --> 01:05:46.610 impacted the locals now, you know, there's a lot of consternation, you know, you have the 01:05:47.590 --> 01:05:48.110 couchsurfing 01:05:48.110 --> 01:05:49.770 Poverterian first 01:05:50.910 --> 01:05:55.470 Mover anarchist, you know, I'm an anarchist support me kind of thing that goes there 01:05:56.010 --> 01:06:00.510 They do a lot of activism. They kind of you know scare the horses and you know, whatever 01:06:00.510 --> 01:06:04.650 But as time goes on I've seen it happen like a pork fest dude 01:06:04.650 --> 01:06:09.270 You got to go with next year dude. We got to go to pork fast dude. So we could 01:06:10.390 --> 01:06:13.650 Walk around with our AR 15s on our back dude 01:06:14.690 --> 01:06:15.890 Well, then you get that 01:06:16.690 --> 01:06:18.070 It goes a couple of years 01:06:19.350 --> 01:06:23.870 These same people get married start having a couple of kids a hey 01:06:23.870 --> 01:06:28.730 Can you have your naked zombie dancing over there? I mean, I got my kids here, you know be a little responsible 01:06:28.730 --> 01:06:34.450 So it starts to mature a little bit start to weed out, you know people that are you know 01:06:34.450 --> 01:06:38.510 Just causing problems because you know, they got you know mental social 01:06:39.110 --> 01:06:43.550 Whatever issues it matures. It's gotten to that point 01:06:44.550 --> 01:06:46.150 That I'm seeing a lot more 01:06:47.310 --> 01:06:53.270 Maturity in why do you think we moved here? It's not that you know scare the horses 01:06:53.270 --> 01:06:57.210 It is to live free. Well, they do that by 01:06:57.210 --> 01:07:01.450 Example they start to like a good neighbor a free stator is here 01:07:01.450 --> 01:07:04.110 Then you have the COVID thing happen, you know 01:07:04.110 --> 01:07:09.970 Who's there most willing to help and you're talking about the moving thing anybody that moves to New Hampshire? 01:07:10.170 --> 01:07:14.930 You get a moving party shows up and takes care of business. So I'm just this 01:07:16.550 --> 01:07:23.250 Example has what impact even on your detractors, you know, who are your detractors? 01:07:23.270 --> 01:07:27.590 What's the organized it because there is an organized effort against free-staters. You're not communist enough 01:07:27.590 --> 01:07:34.870 So I'm just you know, what is the mood of the opposition have the people there the the 01:07:35.950 --> 01:07:41.330 Indigenous people they starting to embrace adopt start to come over they go to your parties 01:07:41.330 --> 01:07:44.730 Give me the integration of the two cultures there 01:07:45.430 --> 01:07:51.010 You know one of our long-term state reps who's not not a free-state in the sense that he didn't move to the state 01:07:51.010 --> 01:07:53.350 But he's you know very supportive of our ideas 01:07:53.930 --> 01:07:55.170 once told me 01:07:55.810 --> 01:08:03.350 You guys have made a real positive difference to New Hampshire, especially the normal by comparison ones 01:08:03.910 --> 01:08:07.030 And he meant by that I kind of there was a sort of funny 01:08:07.710 --> 01:08:09.910 t-shirt that some folks 01:08:10.710 --> 01:08:15.030 Put on one year at pork fest that said normal by comparison on the front 01:08:15.030 --> 01:08:20.090 I think it was sort of self-deprecating. We're only normal by comparison with the you know 01:08:20.090 --> 01:08:23.750 Stoner civil disobedience types that you were talking about there Ernie 01:08:23.750 --> 01:08:28.950 So yeah, I think a lot of the the people who were you know shouting at people in bull 01:08:28.950 --> 01:08:34.990 You know with bull horns and you know leaving their couch in the front yard and stuff like that and not taking off their hat 01:08:34.990 --> 01:08:38.510 And court and and just creating creating a ruckus 01:08:40.090 --> 01:08:45.410 They've they've grown up. They've matured. They've moved on to strategies that actually make a positive difference 01:08:45.410 --> 01:08:48.850 So I think there's been a lot of learning there, but I will say that 01:08:49.410 --> 01:08:55.350 The left in New Hampshire is just as bad as the left in Massachusetts. I mean they 01:08:55.350 --> 01:09:04.010 They want income taxes. They want gun control. They want rent control. They want, you know, they want big government 01:09:05.050 --> 01:09:13.570 Across the board actually and you know, I've been funded that is not organic. That is something else. What is that? 01:09:14.590 --> 01:09:20.230 That's a good question. I mean, you know, I do think some of it is outside funded 01:09:20.230 --> 01:09:26.730 We know for a fact that these Soros linked think tanks are funding the free stater 01:09:26.730 --> 01:09:30.210 hater groups like Granite State Matters and Granite State Progress 01:09:30.950 --> 01:09:36.010 their people work who paid full-time to follow around the free state project and 01:09:36.710 --> 01:09:38.150 denounce us and 01:09:38.670 --> 01:09:42.710 Protest us. There's an enemy's list that one of them created and 01:09:44.150 --> 01:09:48.630 hundreds of you know known or suspected free staters. I mean, it's 01:09:49.230 --> 01:09:55.860 Literally McCarthyism reborn, but it's now it's the communists doing it and and 01:09:57.130 --> 01:09:59.250 Yeah, so that's you know, those people 01:09:59.790 --> 01:10:05.290 Flip their lids if you're a if you're a free stater and you come out as a free stater and you're a proud free stater 01:10:05.290 --> 01:10:12.030 And you're running for office. These people will flip their lids and they will go after you and I experienced that myself running for planning board in my town and 01:10:14.190 --> 01:10:19.970 Planning board you want to be a planner? What kind of crap is that? I wanted to de-plan 01:10:23.130 --> 01:10:25.870 Well your association with 01:10:27.390 --> 01:10:33.510 American Institute for economic research, I guess you say air, you know, you can't live without air 01:10:33.510 --> 01:10:35.870 I mean, you know, how do you pronounce that? 01:10:36.350 --> 01:10:40.870 We usually say AIER, but that's hard to say too 01:10:40.870 --> 01:10:47.030 Yeah, well tell me about it. You know the how is it that you're promoting that? What was it do? 01:10:48.130 --> 01:10:51.750 Yeah, so we are one of the nation's oldest think tanks and 01:10:51.750 --> 01:10:56.850 We would claim to be the nation's premier classical liberal research institution 01:10:56.850 --> 01:11:02.630 so we were founded in 1933 by Colonel E. C. Harwood on the campus of MIT and 01:11:03.230 --> 01:11:11.450 He wanted to fight FDR's gold confiscation order and so from the very beginning we've had an interest in sound money 01:11:12.490 --> 01:11:13.090 and 01:11:13.870 --> 01:11:16.070 monetary policy and 01:11:16.070 --> 01:11:17.150 Now we're much broader 01:11:17.150 --> 01:11:24.210 so we work on economic freedom in general and we also have a project we call defending freedom combating 01:11:24.210 --> 01:11:30.170 Collectivism we're really taking on the new threats to freedom coming from both the left and the right now 01:11:30.170 --> 01:11:32.650 You may have noticed that a lot of these 01:11:33.450 --> 01:11:36.270 national conservatives and post liberals are advocating 01:11:37.590 --> 01:11:40.230 tariffs and trade protectionism and 01:11:40.970 --> 01:11:43.010 industrial policy and 01:11:43.830 --> 01:11:47.270 Forsaking our free market heritage that really 01:11:48.050 --> 01:11:52.370 American conservatives have always believed in up until now and so we're fighting that 01:11:53.010 --> 01:11:56.250 And so you can check us out at AIER.org 01:11:56.250 --> 01:12:01.870 We also have a daily publication analyzing economic trends and policy issues in the news 01:12:01.870 --> 01:12:06.550 It's very useful if you're in business or in public policy 01:12:06.550 --> 01:12:10.870 It's called the daily economy and you can find that at the daily economy org 01:12:13.050 --> 01:12:19.150 Tell me about your role in the Free State project, I mean, I know you 01:12:19.150 --> 01:12:25.960 You started it, you know, you're associated with it, but you know, it's it's 01:12:26.590 --> 01:12:30.090 Hopefully has taken on a life of its own 01:12:30.090 --> 01:12:36.690 By the people that come and just be it, you know, if you got a have, you know 01:12:36.690 --> 01:12:41.450 convention the secret handshake of whatever and we're doing this and 01:12:41.450 --> 01:12:47.850 We've all voted and you have to and you lost and we gotta something some central plan for freedom 01:12:47.850 --> 01:12:52.590 I know there's no central plan for freedom. I'm just saying but you know 01:12:52.590 --> 01:12:59.990 What's your role in the Free State project other than its creator or advocate is there they look, you know 01:12:59.990 --> 01:13:05.930 Well, what does Jason say, you know, Jason said that you know, you're doing it wrong Jason said 01:13:05.930 --> 01:13:12.490 I mean, is there any of that? Tell me what kind of influence you have in the concept. Oh 01:13:12.490 --> 01:13:16.550 You know, we're libertarians so we disagree with each other plenty, you know 01:13:17.310 --> 01:13:21.910 How many how many libertarians can dance on the edge of a pen is always a discussion. Yeah, yeah 01:13:21.910 --> 01:13:28.210 There's there's some of that says some of that that happens. Although there's not a lot of that that purity debate about 01:13:29.030 --> 01:13:30.490 basic philosophical principles 01:13:30.910 --> 01:13:34.730 But sometimes you get debate about who is or isn't a real libertarian 01:13:34.730 --> 01:13:38.110 I mean, I mean it wouldn't be a libertarian group if you didn't have that and you know 01:13:38.110 --> 01:13:40.930 We've had some folks who kind of fall off the left edge of the map 01:13:40.930 --> 01:13:43.390 We've had some folks who fall off the right edge of the map 01:13:43.390 --> 01:13:47.610 I don't know if you notice that national politics these days have gotten kind of crazy and they're you know 01:13:47.610 --> 01:13:51.970 There are people who these minds have been kind of rotted by social media and are now like, you know black people 01:13:53.570 --> 01:13:53.970 Pansion 01:13:53.970 --> 01:13:59.470 You know when you say libertarian, you know, I mean think of this 01:13:59.470 --> 01:14:04.110 This is one thing that I realized certainly since the revolution when you say libertarian 01:14:04.510 --> 01:14:06.290 Nobody thinks of the libertarian party 01:14:06.850 --> 01:14:14.590 And they think of Ron Paul or their local libertarian guy or the philosophy or you know that was shrug something, you know 01:14:15.510 --> 01:14:21.890 Libertarian part voting cap. What you know, yeah, is that your experience? That's been my experience. Yeah 01:14:21.890 --> 01:14:25.630 I think it is the way things are now, which is healthy 01:14:26.130 --> 01:14:31.690 you know people have gotten away from thinking about the libertarian party much more over the last 20 years because 01:14:32.590 --> 01:14:34.750 You know, it's it's become become irrelevant 01:14:34.750 --> 01:14:39.310 You know, I'm glad that there's someone for me to vote for for president every four years 01:14:39.310 --> 01:14:42.330 I guess not that it matters that much, but 01:14:43.090 --> 01:14:44.750 You know what we found in New Hampshire 01:14:45.610 --> 01:14:46.050 Yeah 01:14:47.390 --> 01:14:50.370 We found in New Hampshire the party doesn't doesn't matter as much 01:14:50.370 --> 01:14:54.230 You know, you can get elected at the local level we can get involved in lots of different ways 01:14:54.870 --> 01:14:57.170 without a party label or through the Republicans and 01:14:58.730 --> 01:15:00.330 so so yeah, I mean my 01:15:00.330 --> 01:15:05.530 Free State project is a 501c3 nonprofit. So we're you know, we're a public charity 01:15:05.530 --> 01:15:12.430 We're educating people about the benefits of living free in New Hampshire. It's not does mean your contributions are tax deductible 01:15:12.430 --> 01:15:15.390 But we don't take any money from government never have never will 01:15:15.390 --> 01:15:20.430 We've never taken any money from corporations except for like sponsorships of events 01:15:21.230 --> 01:15:25.670 It's just not not where our focus is we're a very grassroots organization 01:15:25.670 --> 01:15:28.130 So I am on the board of directors of the Free State projects 01:15:28.130 --> 01:15:31.510 That's kind of my role is is to be a strategic voice 01:15:32.010 --> 01:15:36.910 In kind of keeping us true to principle, you know, we want people who are real libertarians 01:15:36.910 --> 01:15:43.770 They believe in both political freedom personal freedom and economic freedom strictly limited government at most 01:15:43.770 --> 01:15:48.250 You know, we welcome anarchists too and so I want to make sure that we continue that 01:15:49.170 --> 01:15:51.690 individualist pro-liberty heritage and 01:15:52.450 --> 01:15:54.370 keep our strategy of 01:15:55.390 --> 01:15:59.170 Getting people more people to New Hampshire and getting us close to living our lifetime 01:16:00.450 --> 01:16:01.050 You know 01:16:01.650 --> 01:16:08.670 Before you go, I wanted to get kind of a beat on you know the demographic and what the appeal would be 01:16:09.610 --> 01:16:10.010 I 01:16:11.310 --> 01:16:15.530 Just come out of college. I'm young. I maybe I got a degree 01:16:15.530 --> 01:16:21.670 I don't got a good degree or I'm a tradesman. I actually know how to do something you can get a job anywhere that way but the 01:16:23.330 --> 01:16:28.490 Or you just start in a family you have a family or you're retired or 01:16:28.490 --> 01:16:34.330 You start of the family. They're kind of getting raised your 40. Whatever and you want to start a business, you know 01:16:35.430 --> 01:16:36.770 these starting life 01:16:38.110 --> 01:16:40.130 Starting life, you know having children 01:16:41.650 --> 01:16:42.710 Starting a business 01:16:44.010 --> 01:16:44.490 retiring 01:16:45.990 --> 01:16:50.650 What's the draw for each of those and which one of those you think is the most 01:16:50.650 --> 01:16:55.050 Desired and which ones are coming to New Hampshire the most 01:16:55.570 --> 01:17:03.710 Yeah, so I think it's probably in some ways hardest for young people in their 20s establishing a career 01:17:04.290 --> 01:17:06.750 So that's I'm starting with the worst first 01:17:07.530 --> 01:17:11.510 Because you know, we don't have any big cities. We don't have huge employers 01:17:12.210 --> 01:17:13.690 so if you're trying to 01:17:14.650 --> 01:17:17.010 establish yourself as 01:17:17.010 --> 01:17:19.690 Someone, you know top in your field 01:17:19.690 --> 01:17:23.550 Then your field is gonna be real small in New Hampshire 01:17:24.190 --> 01:17:29.950 So that's that's what's tough, you know our housing costs are kind of high because it's a desirable state to live in 01:17:29.950 --> 01:17:32.010 I mentioned the zoning laws. We're trying to work on 01:17:32.010 --> 01:17:37.670 Or a barrier to housing so that's another reason why it can be tougher for young people 01:17:37.670 --> 01:17:43.270 We find a lot of people move to New Hampshire when they have kids because we have great schools 01:17:43.990 --> 01:17:48.790 We have you know private as well as as public and we have 01:17:48.790 --> 01:17:51.490 You know homeschooling we have school choice programs 01:17:51.490 --> 01:17:58.770 So, you know some of your property taxes will be returned to you for your homeschool expenses, which is wonderful and 01:17:59.750 --> 01:18:05.330 So I find for families New Hampshire is a great place low crime 01:18:06.290 --> 01:18:10.830 Natural beauty. It's a very healthy state good culture 01:18:11.410 --> 01:18:15.690 Right your kids are going to be around other kids who are well adjusted by and large 01:18:15.690 --> 01:18:22.470 And so for families New Hampshire is a great place to end up. I think also for retirees if you enjoy 01:18:24.030 --> 01:18:29.030 the the New England Ocean and the lakes and the skiing and the mountains a 01:18:29.950 --> 01:18:34.830 Lot of people move to New Hampshire when they retire because they enjoy those activities 01:18:35.490 --> 01:18:39.150 It's a great place to invest and it's just going to become a better place 01:18:39.150 --> 01:18:46.270 If you think about where your best investment opportunities are they're the places that might not be great quite yet 01:18:46.270 --> 01:18:51.630 But that are going to be great, right because that's not under attack all the time, you know, right 01:18:52.150 --> 01:18:56.350 So, you know, I think you know for if I knew of course 01:18:56.350 --> 01:19:01.710 You always say this I knew when I was in my 20s raising a family what I know now, you know 01:19:01.710 --> 01:19:06.790 I'd be doing what I'm doing now occupy the layout, you know building, you know for 01:19:06.790 --> 01:19:13.250 Generation next it's time and pressure and all of a sudden you got posh mahal and the health and enjoyment of doing it 01:19:13.250 --> 01:19:20.370 Well for New Hampshire, it seems like, you know, you kind of right off the young that don't have skills a lot 01:19:20.370 --> 01:19:24.390 Anybody's got any trade skills. They know how to, you know, drive a nail or, you know 01:19:24.390 --> 01:19:29.870 The difference between a Phillips or you know flat-head screwdriver, you know, they win, you know 01:19:29.870 --> 01:19:36.350 But the and you can be a handyman without anything you know you can be a you know freaking contractor, you know 01:19:36.350 --> 01:19:43.590 You know how to do something we'll get her doing. Well, the thing is is that when you have the opportunity for a young 01:19:44.370 --> 01:19:47.730 Couple or even just a young man or woman, you know, I 01:19:48.610 --> 01:19:51.310 Got three acres of it. Oh, it's got wood on it 01:19:51.310 --> 01:19:53.930 I chopped this down. I get a mill and I build a house 01:19:53.930 --> 01:19:55.970 I got a nice nest for a little birdie 01:19:55.970 --> 01:19:59.910 It wants to share my life with me boom and I've seen that happen 01:19:59.910 --> 01:20:05.370 There was one young man that was a welder. He welded he built him a home 01:20:05.370 --> 01:20:11.030 Little birdie say hey, man, I'd be living with you. Boom problem solved, you know 01:20:11.030 --> 01:20:18.690 So I I wouldn't write it off for the young if it's framed properly to where you can invest your energy 01:20:18.690 --> 01:20:25.370 And all that testosterone and estrogen in to build my house get your ass over here doing it and then you're done 01:20:25.890 --> 01:20:30.450 Yeah, family that's how it used to be and it seems like New Hampshire 01:20:31.070 --> 01:20:36.870 Especially with your you know, so your electricity, you know that kind of attitude and then 01:20:37.330 --> 01:20:41.650 Jason's going to be on the planning committee to say I get to have my own plan 01:20:41.650 --> 01:20:46.690 You know, you know what my plan is my plan is you get to have your own plan. I 01:20:46.690 --> 01:20:49.950 Vote for that. Let's do that. You know, so this is 01:20:51.410 --> 01:20:54.310 Very enticing in my mindset now for a young 01:20:55.110 --> 01:21:00.150 Energetic person that has so much social opportunities like your schedule 01:21:00.150 --> 01:21:06.310 So I wouldn't write off the young 20-somethings, you know for that it because you coming out of Yale 01:21:06.310 --> 01:21:13.210 You know with your mindset if I won't get a job, you know, how about I just want to build like yeah 01:21:13.210 --> 01:21:16.970 I'm in a camper for a year. So I don't want to get a lot of opportunity there 01:21:16.970 --> 01:21:19.850 I don't want to discourage anyone from moving to New Hampshire 01:21:19.850 --> 01:21:26.070 Certainly don't want to discourage young people. In fact, a lot of young people have moved to the to New Hampshire for the FSP 01:21:26.070 --> 01:21:31.590 A lot of them moved up when Ron Paul was running for president. They were, you know, college students work on his campaign 01:21:31.590 --> 01:21:37.670 They just never left and some of those people are still my friends. So yes, there is opportunity for young people 01:21:38.650 --> 01:21:44.510 I just want people to be aware of the challenges that they might face when they move to the state 01:21:44.510 --> 01:21:47.970 So yes build skills build construction skills welding 01:21:47.970 --> 01:21:55.270 You know those types of skills are great in in the New Hampshire market because those skills are in short supply 01:21:55.270 --> 01:21:58.970 And you'll make a good wage. You can support yourself on that 01:21:58.970 --> 01:22:04.670 And it's a portable job, right? You can you can do that in a number of different parts of the state 01:22:04.670 --> 01:22:08.430 So yes, there is a definite pathway here for young people 01:22:09.430 --> 01:22:13.470 And it seems more open to entrepreneurial efforts for 01:22:14.750 --> 01:22:20.370 Even the what do you call them the farmers markets or parking swaps or just you know 01:22:21.290 --> 01:22:23.530 Promoting your own I made it myself 01:22:24.110 --> 01:22:32.070 Hygiene products coffee of vibe do widgets and gizmos and 3d printed something, you know, it's just it's like, you know 01:22:32.070 --> 01:22:36.630 Every lemonade stand gets stopped at you know, it's that attitude. It's that mindset 01:22:36.630 --> 01:22:42.490 This is something that I think is really should be emphasized. You could start 01:22:42.490 --> 01:22:48.650 a life there without a lot of states you go to it's like their 01:22:48.650 --> 01:22:55.630 Anti-life and the way that like I ran when she said, you know being pro-life or your anti-life 01:22:55.630 --> 01:22:58.710 It wasn't an abortion issue. It was it was 01:22:59.330 --> 01:23:05.330 Living your pro-living. I'm allowed to take my life and put it towards living and 01:23:06.290 --> 01:23:10.510 If you're have somebody attacking that wanting to take all of your 01:23:10.510 --> 01:23:12.850 Production all of your effort 01:23:12.850 --> 01:23:19.130 Collectivize it in on their balance sheet and it's not yours because we said so and passed a law then your 01:23:19.590 --> 01:23:28.070 Anti-life and I'm seeing that my experience with New Hampshire over the decades has been it's pro life pro living and 01:23:28.070 --> 01:23:31.690 against anti-life people so this is a 01:23:32.410 --> 01:23:38.690 A good interview now we have before you go there is always a 01:23:39.730 --> 01:23:46.390 Summer festival the porcupine freedom fester did it and it's kind of morphed into different things and 01:23:46.390 --> 01:23:52.190 Outsquitted of whatever, but it's really there's an opportunity now for people to 01:23:52.930 --> 01:23:55.710 Experience it not just to go to the camping and campground 01:23:55.710 --> 01:24:02.310 But to kind of travel around and the people that actually living there to see different communities to look at different bills 01:24:02.310 --> 01:24:07.550 To look at what families have constructed what towns are doing you know this kind of look 01:24:07.550 --> 01:24:09.890 We want you to not just come and party and 01:24:11.310 --> 01:24:17.210 But you know to actually go and experience New Hampshire before you go tell us about it 01:24:17.210 --> 01:24:18.730 What do you think's gonna happen this summer? 01:24:19.570 --> 01:24:26.730 Yeah, so we've just announced it porkfest is going to take place all over the state a lot of people will still be 01:24:26.730 --> 01:24:32.210 Camping at Rogers campground, but we won't be holding events there instead. The events will be sponsored by 01:24:32.210 --> 01:24:40.170 the eight Liberty club houses that are all over the state the quill is one of them in Manchester, which came up earlier and 01:24:41.110 --> 01:24:44.870 Some people private individuals will be running buses as well 01:24:44.870 --> 01:24:51.950 So you can come to New Hampshire and explore the state. There will also be prizes for those who go to all eight club houses 01:24:52.870 --> 01:24:58.890 So it is going to be a decentralized festival this year and the third week of June and you can 01:24:59.550 --> 01:25:06.830 See more information about that coming up soon at porkfest.com. That's P o r c 01:25:07.640 --> 01:25:09.090 FES T.com 01:25:10.490 --> 01:25:18.250 porkfest.com and it has the only reason I've heard about it because you know, I'm interested in such things and he sent me 01:25:19.230 --> 01:25:21.750 One of them you know at Jay's home where 01:25:22.810 --> 01:25:28.010 You know a free stator there that well known and he has a lot of facility and so I'm going well 01:25:28.010 --> 01:25:33.970 It's going to be there really are you gonna do it? Well, it's kind of a hub for one of the visits and I'm going 01:25:33.970 --> 01:25:37.870 Yeah, that's very cool. That would be a great ad, you know 01:25:37.870 --> 01:25:43.310 So I'm and he's processed a lot of young people come through he's trained to be 01:25:43.310 --> 01:25:49.390 You know useful in a lot of ways and then they go on and you know that their life and that's kind of you know 01:25:49.390 --> 01:25:53.430 What he does, but I'm it's been a big inspiration and 01:25:54.670 --> 01:25:56.810 I got one more question 01:25:58.870 --> 01:26:05.910 Why why did you write that paper? What was what prompted you to do that? I 01:26:05.910 --> 01:26:12.510 Couldn't stand thinking that these ideas had no hope that there'd be no hope of of actually 01:26:12.510 --> 01:26:14.390 living in a free society and 01:26:14.390 --> 01:26:16.610 Moving the ball toward that. So 01:26:16.610 --> 01:26:19.430 You know, I thought it was something that could work 01:26:19.430 --> 01:26:21.450 I I didn't think that it would work 01:26:21.450 --> 01:26:27.130 but I thought that it might and even that little chance made me think it was worth a try and 01:26:28.490 --> 01:26:29.290 Turns out 01:26:29.290 --> 01:26:38.630 You know, I appreciate your hope is a powerful emotion 01:26:39.130 --> 01:26:44.750 Hope is powerful. Just just you know, I remember at the end. I think was the 01:26:45.430 --> 01:26:53.110 Out of the third matrix or something and he's battling Smith in that mud pit, you know in the matrix and you're going 01:26:53.110 --> 01:26:59.990 Why mr. Anderson? Why must you persist? Why do you know you're gonna fail? Why why why mr. Anderson? 01:27:00.610 --> 01:27:02.830 Because I choose to 01:27:03.750 --> 01:27:10.590 Jason Soren chose to so Jason Soren's I'm really appreciative that you chose to 01:27:11.490 --> 01:27:13.770 Because you already I'm glad I did too 01:27:15.490 --> 01:27:20.530 Peace brother. Thanks very much people go to free state project 01:27:20.530 --> 01:27:25.590 You know, you just put free state project in a search it'll blow up all over the place pork fast 01:27:25.590 --> 01:27:28.530 Which is porcupine freedom festival 01:27:28.530 --> 01:27:29.890 Po rc 01:27:30.470 --> 01:27:35.450 FES T com I guess it is you know pork fast and you know 01:27:35.450 --> 01:27:40.130 You wear a pork fast shirt. You're on the way in the airplane everybody looking at you funny pork 01:27:40.130 --> 01:27:43.870 Now where are you going? You know kind of like, you know porcupine freedom festival 01:27:44.250 --> 01:27:47.750 Get get out get your mind out of the gutter. So this is a 01:27:49.010 --> 01:27:55.250 Great opportunity at you and I don't know if we've ever done an interview before, you know, this is a great one 01:27:55.250 --> 01:28:00.230 I think people got an idea of the success from an idea 01:28:00.230 --> 01:28:05.410 from a college student that just blossom into a 01:28:06.070 --> 01:28:12.670 Rose being an example to the planet, which gee I wonder why the left is attacking 01:28:12.670 --> 01:28:19.910 You know cuz they can but to what success doesn't seem like they're phasing you guys 01:28:21.810 --> 01:28:25.450 Jason Sorens, thank you very much for coming on Jason. This is awesome 01:28:26.130 --> 01:28:30.390 Thank you. It was a pleasure. Yeah, peace brother. Bye. Bye