and it's a party on the stream today and what a good time Mr crypto vigilante it's been
what maybe a year or so since I came on your show man how have you been doing
oh you're muted man you're on mute there we go until then man dude what
what a crazy time in bitcoin with opera turn something that's been around for
11 years now at this point 12 years almost and we're having some more as man crypto vigilante
bro how have you been I'm doing pretty good thank you for having me on I'm pleasure to be here I
really like the way you guys have always embraced the entirety of the space with emblem vault so
big props to you guys for for having that the insights and to do that a lot of people haven't
done that haven't embraced the entirety of the space so I want to commend you guys for doing that
yeah I appreciate that it's tough you know moving in between ecosystems because a lot of
people are so pigeonhole or they're so you know tribalistic or they tend to just kind of stick
with their meme coins right or with their UTXOs or with their NFTs and so you know you lose
community members when you bounce between these different ecosystems because it's just
so much information to grasp but man without a doubt for me though the bitcoin ecosystem has
always been my favorite I think maybe just because it has such a long history that there's always
some drama that's happening but yeah like right now correct yeah your take on the current
happenings and what's happened this week and and your thoughts on from your kind of historical
point of view what's going on now and and how you view it well we we as individuals we can't
really judge the intentions of others well we can like come to logical conclusions based on
what we observe happening around and through the effects of what they do so
BTC chose a path of scaling which was one of a layered approaches scaling and
and it's pretty obvious to all of us who are watching and playing close attention that
BTC is setting itself up to scale on chain but they have to do it in a very smart
and a very smart way that it does not arouse suspicion and that it does not
push people to look at big blocker alternatives and the main foundation for for my analysis
in this is is based on the fact that they allowed ordinals to exist to begin with
they could have shut that down the moment they came on to stage
we also have to keep in mind that since over a year now
rusty Russell has been spearheading amongst the core devs what they call the great script
restoration which is to re-enable over 19 upcodes to BTC
now for anyone who has been paying attention for the past decade or so this is big block
Bitcoin vision this is this is the understanding that BTC is coming up up against a wall
where the subsidy that Satoshi left us will not suffice the the capital influx that is coming in
via fiat to drive the price of the coin up and so I have to verify these numbers still but I was
looking at over the top this morning a lot of people are saying that it costs around $200,000
to mine one BTC that's around $90,000 so the price of BTC has to keep climbing
and we're at the point where I have to ask this question it's a rhetorical question right
how much higher can it go and and who what other players can you onboard well you've
already onboarded black rock you've already onboarded mastercard you've onboarded
wall street through micro strategy you you're onboarding the planet already and
you really have to give the market in my opinion a lot more than what BTC is offering in order for
more capital to be infused into it so you're onboarding the US government you're onboarding
a lot of state governments a lot of local governments throughout the world but yet
um there's still this pressure that BTC has on itself in order to keep the price over a certain
level and that's and that's something that the core devs have it's you know I I have not
privy to their interior communication but I do see what they've what they've proposed to the
market in real time so for example the the person who who proposed this uh the the expansion of the
up return limit of Peter Todd about a year and a half ago gave a talk at Monerotopia where he
was proposing directly taxing your BTC wallets to subsidize the miners and this is called demiurge
I I was the only one to speak up and I told him you know what I think we all agree here
that taxation is theft and I don't think anyone's going to agree with you imposing that on investors
of bitcoin contributors to bitcoin that they are going to be taxed directly out of their wallets
in order to subsidize the miners the other um idea that has been thrown around and it's
something that now it's being openly spoken about is to break the 21 million cap in market
supply for BTC itself and there's a lot of reasons given excuses given and justifications given such as
we don't we there's a lot of coins that have been lost and also Satoshi there's even the proposal
out there that to steal Satoshi's coins from them. Satoshi's coins come on man. Yeah no that's
real that's that's so it's so crazy to hear this from people who you would think would be more of
a libertarian bent to impose tax on people and stuff it's literally insanity to hear that sort
of that sort of thing I don't know man are they you know well I guess in the way you you would
think well you know bitcoin has this kind of libertarian birth so we'd say or at least ideal
at the beginning and how far it's moved maybe from that um and I mean even the whole block size war
very much I mean you know I would say I would take the opposite position of the small blockers
but at the same time I would admit and I would say you know actually the small blockers
were correct in solving the first issue which is how do these coins have any value at all
right what we've seen in any other attempts basically is that they go in the opposite
direction against bitcoin right even if they have you know similar security principles and
hard money and all these sort of other things uh they have a very difficult time
storing value or holding their value and the bitcoiners the small blockers
like they they were right in that but now we're getting into this like secondary effect
which is like how does the network support itself right how can we ensure that mine yeah go ahead
this was the crux of the civil war was the the big blockers have the foresight to see that this was
going to be an inevitability in the future now I agree with you in that the small blockers
made bitcoin appetable palatable to the powers that be because they took away the teeth and
claws away from bitcoin and made bitcoin into something that was docile something that can
be tamed something that does not pose a threat to the systems that run the world so bitcoin has
a place now with the banking system it gives it gives the banking system a reason to be it
gives the big tech world a reason to exist alongside bitcoin a mastercard can exist
alongside bitcoin bitcoin in its original design um proposes something else to the world which is
we don't need the legacy system we can do better and that's that's something that we all have to
agree that it's something that is that such a threat was never going to be fully embraced
by the powers that be it would be naive for us as bitcoiners to assume that the fullness of
bitcoin was going to be embraced readily by big tech and fintech so i i i agree with you um but then
again it's it's it's interesting what's happening because it is the core devs now who spearhead the
small blocker initiative during the civil war that are now spearheading the initiative to be the
big blockers within btc now so i mean think about that though is this the genius of it and
i'm not saying any of them are particularly like plan this but if if this is if the they trojan
horse it in by making it small block right store of value trojan horse it in wall street can package
it up in etfs and sell it us government wants to buy it and they trojan horse it in and then
they make it big block right is that the solution like is that the thing like oh my god they
trojan horse bitcoin and now it eats the world like is that do you see that as a possibility
or that that's the only that is the only path that they have um and that is uh if they were to see
this in hindsight and plan for this in foresight i got to give it to them genius move because
yeah they allowed bitcoin to step in and be embraced by all the giants by all the governments
and and and notice how this is being carried about in a very cautious way they've already
signaled to the world that that is the path that they're taking and again uh the great
script restoration ordinals so we already know that this is the path forward um and i think that
the they have to do it in a very um cautious way because there is already a scalable bitcoin
there is already a version of bitcoin that is fully scalable with all of the op codes so
if a btc has to be very cautious in the way it does that because if it doesn't if it does
it in a way that um is too aggressive then people would ask themselves well why what why won't i hedge
myself with a scalable bitcoin version uh like bsv or even bitcoin cash if you want to argue for that
as well why wouldn't what did i hedge for that with with with a scalable bitcoin that already
exists and so i agree with you it's very genius if this is something that they planned out in
advance and i got to give it to you to them if that was the case you know very good job
you sigh out the world into accepting bitcoin and now you're you're on the path to scaling bitcoin
and yeah i don't see any other path forward for btc because there's also a conflict of interest
that we have to keep in mind that they have been selling uh the world the you know the vc world
a lot of investors have been sold on this layered approach to scaling so they still need to cater
to that audience and letting them know that their investment was not a sunk cost they already
made a horrible mistake with the lightning network which was a complete flop and now they're they're
like redirecting the focus of investment into what they're which is big block technology now properly
speaking not a layer to process scaling but to say that bitcoin is turned complete that bitcoin
that you can uh compute script on chain that or that you can do the computation outside of
the blockchain and attested on chain while still having your cake and eating it your cake being
not having digital footprint on the blockchain but having the computations done outside of the
blockchain so so there is that whole world of venture capital that has invested and
reinvented itself into many different uh layered approaches to scaling
so they have this is the the difficulty that btc faces is that on the one hand
it's moving in this direction but on the other hand they have a rival network that already has
everything ready to go if words gets out by the wrong person who has a little bit too much clout
in btc that there is a better way of doing things than doing it through a layered approach that you
can do it on chain then you have now a rival bt a rival bitcoin camp that poses a giant
existential threat to btc where in which this rival btc a bitcoin uh group of people that have
kept building on chain building on bitcoin's original design this this group of bitcoiners can
not only flip btc theoretically but in doing so also consume the entirety of the bitcoin infrastructure
so it's uh it's it's a very um right so what you're saying is that they need to bring in big
blocks or some some form of it while still selling and holding on to this like store value
kind of narrative and and kind of morph into what people were fighting for in 2017
in a way that's palatable and everybody just doesn't go oh this is bullshit
let's go back to the let's just grab one of these other systems it's already built out
and already functioning and move our money over there basically or move our value over
there um correct so basically not be called out for the the the bad vibes they created in
2016 and 17 by calling everybody scammers for trying to do big blocks and then do big blocks
themselves and you know kind of i don't know yeah exactly that's that rode out which has a
lot of pitfalls in it as you see like people are already pushing back well i mean even michael
sailor is investing his research and development in a project he calls orange where he is
enabling real world assets on chain so the fact that he's even uh you know his entire
he gave a whole talk where he seated the place to the lead person who leads that rnd effort within
strategy to give a talk on this topic at the last bitcoin conference um says a lot and and it shows
you that that is indeed where this is all moving and and it's it's very they have to play it
very very tight like you described and the best case in there about like sailor like with uh you
know i mean there was that famous video before the ethereum etf came out where he's like only
bitcoin bitcoin's the only i don't know if you remember that where he's like there is no second
best there is no second best but there's no way that basically ethereum is going to get the etf
there's no way it's going to be accepted by this administration and then literally like a week
later to happen right and he had to like just he just pivoted right and you almost see like these
guys are just gonna you know i i feel like there there's enough smart people there obviously
some you know some brilliant people in that kind of core group who it just feels like man they
they're probably going to figure this out um and and even even with all of the kind of
backbiting lying manipulating it just feels like they did it in 2017 it feels like they're
going to be able to do it again do you feel like they're going to be able to do it again
a hundred percent because they have veto power um and what people don't realize is that core runs
bitcoin core is is is they they run bitcoin they you know they gave people the illusion
that they had some sort of democracy with the user activated soft fork but in reality that was
no democracy because i myself could have spun up a hundred thousand servers and made giving you
the illusion that i had i i was there were a hundred thousand individual votes for a user
activated soft fork so there is they have veto power and just look at how much bureaucracy
anyone that wants to propose anything good for bitcoin has to go through with the bit process
and all of a sudden peter todd yesterday just comes in and says i'm going to do this
and he just you know the bureaucracy is cleared for him there is no and so rightfully so people who
are more purist within btc that actually want to lower the block size like uh luke dasher has been
promoting they rightfully so are our open arms like what's going on here and and we should promote
you know the the version of bitcoin that stays in line for the reason why we had the civil war
which is to keep bitcoin as a as as a store of value with no spamming of the blockchain
was their argument and so a lot you see a lot of people um consorting around a bitcoin not
implementation and they said and there's pretty much saying a bitcoin core is compromised bitcoin
core is is a place that is centrally planned and bitcoin core is is a harming bitcoin but
this is if you take the the small blocker narrative to its logical conclusion
then they're correct but if you step back and you start assuming things the way we you know
within this conversation we've been talking about how maybe this is just bitcoin court
playing at a higher level where they're actually making bitcoin appetable to the world to then
enable the opcodes in a scale the block size and in scale these bitcoin superpowers that
we know are possible then i think is genius so um the problem again with that approach
is is that bitcoin core has to be very cautious that by doing so they're not signaling to the
big blocker uh camp of bitcoin because because that is their one existential threat the only
existential threat for btc is another genesis block bitcoin that is already fully scalable
because if that baby takes off then it's it doesn't only again flip btc in price but also
consumes this infrastructure in the process so it's um they have to be they have to play very
careful and i think that they have the penchant to go ahead and do this now because you have the
two leaders of both uh big blocker initiatives craig rite and roger verre being hammered down
by the law and who is behind the hammering of the law against these two big block leaders
well there is a popular uh red thread where greg maxwell threatens um roger verre with
in working with the tax authorities to go after roger and he and he says out loud he says
on the reddit thread if if someone were to do this they would get a 30 out of however much the
the irs would get back from the person who's been infringing on on whatever irs parameters are broken
so and then you have the whole copa trial against craig rite which is like the entirety of big tech
going after one bit coiner i guess this is the what's like a lot of people don't realize
is that you have mark zuckerberg open ai uh jack dorsi michael sailor you you literally have the big
tech cabal forming around going against one bit coiner because he has patents but then again you
mean to tell me that like big tech doesn't possess patents and that they don't fight for their
patents so it's almost like how are you how how is big tech out of all and out of all sectors in the
economy going to position themselves as all of a sudden the cypher punk open source ethos
champions that should be odd to any listener and they should be questioning themselves like
what's going on here why patents why patents for me but not for thee what's going on here so
so i think that having the stage set where you have the two leaders you know i wouldn't call them
leaders because no one's really a leader in bitcoin but two big figureheads in big in the big block
world being pressured legally by by the small blocker network i think the small blocker network
kind of is now saying well now we can scale bitcoin now we can move and and do it in a
way where our rivals the big blockers have been crippled so we can go in and so i honestly think
that's what's happening right now um well tell me what the negative of that would be other than
you know bag holding uh you know people holding different bags other than that as someone who
i know believes in you know freedom and liberty what would be the negative of this actually
working if this actually worked and bitcoin actually became like a medium of exchange again
and had had basically you know trojan horse its way into the u.s government and wall street and
everything and then becomes the medium of exchange fully scalable through big blocks
what's give me the negative outcome of that other aside from potentially downside to other
people's bags so i don't really think there's a negative there because you know there is the
ideal world how we would like the world to be but then there's a real world and the real
world is always present and ideally you would have wanted a bitcoin in my opinion that empowers
the people that is the anti samson mile approach which is bitcoin is for the person who lives with
less than two dollars a day bitcoin is for that person in the emerging economy that you go into
any plaza in latin america and they're hustling several minutes you empower them that is the
user base that we should have all been going after not the person who has readily available
credit who is within a first world capitals market the person who is see that person really
doesn't need bitcoin that person already has the the safety net of a welfare state that person
really doesn't need bitcoin crypto has not gone after that world which is over three billion
unbanked crypto has not helped those individuals out because us in the first world feel like we
know better that's always been kind of like our sin that we know better we know how to help
them the truth is is that if we have better technology what we do is just offer it to them
and for them to figure things out on their own that has always been my dream for bitcoin
that is my goal for bitcoin regardless of who embraces it now the problem by the by the small
blocker approach to sigh up these elite up and and have them buy into a harmless bitcoin to then
later on enable the bitcoin superpowers the problem with that is that now you have a
bitcoin that is captured it's a bitcoin that is captured by big tech and big fintech and this
bitcoin that is captured now it poses um a a an opposition to a world where people are empowered
and we find ourselves now moving into a more of a dystopia environment where um it's it's really
a corporate um proof of stake model but on steroids where only a few will have access to um
i really do hope that what we're talking about comes true because it still gives an opening to
that sector in the market that needs bitcoin the most i really hope that this happens but uh but
but i i think i might my dream would have been for to have never given these legacy players
a seat at the table yeah but bitcoin to have been a grassroots effort that opposes them bitcoin with
teeth and that's why to this day i'm still an advocate for big block bitcoin and if not big block
bitcoin then definitely privacy coins because privacy coins get us there immediately um bitcoin
with teeth bitcoin aggressive bitcoin big block bitcoin um gets us there out in the open by
competing out in the open market on a transparent ledger the the so i i welcome the world as is
but i no matter what um that should be our foundation for adoption um and it's not like a
normative uh should but rather it's it's the most stable foundations people who are using
microtransactions in their day-to-day life who don't do it out of pleasure or out of
some addiction to gambling and we see with with with uh degeneromics but rather um people who
need it every day those the unbanked that should be our focus that should be our foundation how
do we help them out it's interesting though like with uh the idea of captured bitcoin like i've
gotten into chats with luke on on x and stuff and you know and he we we went down the rabbit hole
of like you know what percentage of users need to run their own full node for bitcoin to you know
truly be decentralized the number he gave me was 85 percent and i was like luke that's net that's
that's completely impossible and he's like i know but it's still what the number we need
what are you even talking about then why are we there's no way on earth that could happen right
and so some of them i don't know there's just like a delusion there of like just the
way humans operate i think at least in luke's case uh and i gave us the means to do that see that's
the thing that that they try to make you forget he gave us the simplified payment verification
where you as the user or the merchant doesn't have to have a full node like what you would call
the whole blockchain but rather user user has has the block header and like now now you're
asking yourself well do you trust cryptography or not and if you really do need to verify the
blockchain well then you can go ahead and do that as well right so it's um um it's interesting now how
luke is the the small blocker leading the small block him and jack dorsi actually yeah the small
blockers that want to remain pure to the ultimate small blocker vision but then those who call the
shots in bitcoin the core devs are actually now the big blockers um so take take us through
what would happen if this peter todd um you know proposal goes through and they remove the arbitrary
data limit of opera turn right because that's where this whole debate uh began you know through your
perspective you know what are the second order effects like what you mentioned at the very
beginning that this is kind of the entrance to you know big blocker technology but you know
just take us through one by one of what you think happens uh if that is merged into bitcoin
core entrepreneurs would be able to do more on chain would be able to arbitrage more data on chain
but more use cases would be able to be written on the blockchain so you would have another
ordinal's boom and and is there any and is there anything specific just um you know just
to kind of help us visualize why you know the small blockers or are terrified or even you
in this repo saying that bitcoin becomes a shitcoin and what type of you know entrepreneurial
options will be available if that's merged well they they have this um idea look i i think everyone
here should uh google on youtube um luke dashers um presentation at the magical uh bitcoin friends
conference i think that's what it was called the magical friends conference magical crypto
conference crypto friends conference you'll find his talk at where he proposes lowering the block
size even more so if you want to take the the the small blocker um rhetoric or worldview narrative
to its logical conclusion uh luke dashers 100 right if you're someone who is a purist and
doesn't not want any data arbitrage on the blockchain he just want to keep it as a store
value and nothing else than than that's then then that's what then then that is your logical
conclusion and i'm all for even lowering the block size on btc just let's just get there
to its logical conclusion as fast as possible screen out all ordinal's uh transactions
the issue here is that there is no solution that they're proposing to um
um to do away with the problem that we have once the block reward subsidy decreases even more
yeah and and and no one's really offering a solution that makes sense again the solutions are
still month is still satoshi's coins i'll break the 21 million cap which people are actually
taking it serious it's a as a serious proposal demiurge which is directly stealing your bitcoin
from your wallet uh whenever you know whatever algorithm they set it up so that they so that the
miners just take money out of your wallet to subsidize themselves so taxation on the blockchain
so all of these proposals are preposterous i had a conversation with peter todd at monerotopia
and he laughed at me and i'm like dude we are showing you the way on how to
have a scalable bitcoin on btc with ordinal's at the tights of ordinal's over 80 of transactions
and transaction fees were through transactions that happened on chain when people were trading
data on chain things that people found valuable no matter whether it was a cartoon or a real
world asset traded on chain so we showed you the way of how to subsidize the miners into the future
you just have to allow us to expand he laughed at me he says that proposal stupid whatever but i'm
like dude we're proving you we're proving it to you with the little bit space that we have
through taproot to be able to show you what an on-chain economy looks like everything and it's
my um our take is is that everything that you see solana doing right now could have been done on
bitcoin since 2009 but for some reason this group did not allow that now quietly at the same time
they're enabling op cat um and about 17 other op codes that they're working on deploying one by
one but in order to do that effectively they have to increase the bandwidth to be able to compute
script on chain and they have to do that so this is i this is the first step in many steps in
order to achieve that so the the person from core or the representative from blockchain will
never say out loud that they are becoming a that they're turning bitcoin into a big blocker
blockchain they cannot say that they cannot say that if they say that then they're saying
we were wrong during the civil war and the bsv and the bitcoin cash people were right they can't
say that because these two other networks still pose a huge existential threat to btc so i i
think that in to answer your question i think this is going to give entrepreneurs more of an
opportunity to do cool things on chain um op cat is something that i expect for op cat and
orange michael salers um implementation of real world assets on btc um that's all going to be
um i think we're gonna have a good real awesome announcements coming up next month at the bitcoin
conference on these fronts so btc itself is all moving into this direction you have to remember
that after the lightning network failed um and it failed right when ordinals hit the ground why did it
fail when ordinals hit the ground because a bunch of big blockers stepped in with a lot of experience
with bitcoin script stepped into btc to make a lot of money in btc with ordinals and they
demanded from the lightning network devs hey are you guys uh can we actually work here what
do you guys have of what developer stacks you have for applications using the lightning
network and the answer was we don't have any the answer was go build it yourself so
that moment in time we had a big problem where a lot of lightning network developers left
and they rage quit because the lightning network is a failure and so yes uh and so then um the
big um hurrah was let's grab let's let's so a couple a couple of developers in btc uh linus i think is
his name and super test net they both got inspiration from a from a big blocker who who him and his
crew in my opinion are some of the most the biggest geniuses in in in bitcoin right now when it
comes to computing bitcoin on chain and this is jawei lu and escript who are from bsv and so um
they are inspired by him and they create their own virtual machine on btc and it's called bitvm
the leading implementation of of that is called bitlayer and then they start selling versions
of big of now of bitvm to the vc world so now that the lightning network is in trouble they
start selling another approach to layer 2 scaling in order to do that better you need to enable
opcodes within btc and lo and behold the the the core devs are already in the process of enabling
that on below they're not really telling anyone about that because again this is this is a pr
it could be a pr backlash you can't say that you're turning btc into a big blocker blockchain
when you still have bsv with tera node coming out as processing over a million transactions a second
so like you can't do that you have to be very quiet in the way you deploy things so then this
one of the top developers of bsv jawei lu steps into btc and a lot of the developers from bsv
come into btc bringing their expertise and they now position themselves as the teachers to all
of these new developers that have arrived to btc teaching them about how to um compute
script on chain how how to work with the utx o model because most of these developers come from
blockchains like ethereum where they're only used to working with the account base model and so
they're teaching all of these developers and now you have a whole group now there's a battalion
of bitcoin developers that understand what was once forbidden to say that bitcoin is
turing complete that bitcoin is a turing complete machine meaning that bitcoin is original
design as given to us by satoshi when you scale that satoshi version you have a super computer
ready for you to uh write into it whatever you want this is bitcoin with teeth this is bitcoin
with claws this is dangerous bitcoin this bitcoin is very dangerous to the establishment it's
bitcoin with microtransactions that serve the first world so how again you can't say these
things out loud i'm one of those renegades that say these things out loud um and i guess that's
just part of my branding so now you have xiawei lu you have the guys from unisat you guys have
the guys from dot swap the guys from ordinal's wallet coming into btc and now they're looked
upon as like the leaders of how to scale bitcoin and xiawei lu is is going all over the world
now teaching people on how to compute script on btc and he's one of the leading devs um outside
of core teaching people on op cat and opti ctv and so in other words this is all big blocker
technology in being embraced by by by btc and so and it's got the again it's got the help of
of the likes of andrew upholstra who's actually working on it he's one of the core devs
i interviewed him back in the day and rosti roso another core dev and now you even have the
signaling of someone like peter todd who do you think he'd be one who's most upstanched who was
very much ostensibly opposed to any um on-chain scaling even in my conversation that i share
with him that i that i had at monarotopia here he's now opening up the up return limit
so that's what's happening here guys what's happening here is is that that's where we're
going and like what adam said earlier which was like his logical uh i think that's very smart of you
adam to actually come to our realization right away because believe it or not it's taken a lot of
people a long time to come to our realization that oh my god this is probably what these guys did
to begin with which is that they made bitcoin docile something tame tameable something that
doesn't have teeth doesn't have claws something that is not aggressive to the powers that be
let the powers that be embrace it and once it's embrace wake this animal up and that very well
could be what is happening it is the only path available to btc a lot of people would say no
raff you know what the only opposition that i see to what i'm saying is this raff um sure
everything you're saying is right um they are the the core devs and all of these people
within bitcoin are moving in these directions by enabling op codes with the great script
restoration that they're calling but you don't really even need that because you have blockchains
that are already scalable like solana uh with like project zoos where you can just wrap btc
and and have btc in solana uh enjoy the architecture of a scalable blockchain so
it's um so yeah we we are in a place where anything can happen i honestly wasn't expecting this
that they would be so overt in in in doing what they did a couple days ago but it is happening and um
so raff let me let me ask you this um if if btc you know if the initial plan was to make it
as you claimed it docile or you know friendly to the traditional system so that it wasn't a
immediate threat to things like mastercard and visa etc and now it's viewed as the store of
gold or at least this is the way that trad fi is marketing it do you think that they would back
something like op cat do you think they'll back these op codes or do you think they will be um
or do you think they'll be against it because then it goes against what their current branding
is of bitcoin and therefore then maybe takes away from uh you know it takes away from the
bitcoin etf and then flows to some of the other etfs because it comes much more
similar to something like an ethereum and a and a salana not obviously the same thing but
from a a marketing standpoint to the average individual um you know that would be taking
away from the digital gold aspect and having it as something more similar to a smart contract
like platform uh you know has some downstream effects i think they already know what bitcoin
is capable of because if you study project hamilton from the boston fed which is the
cbdc for um for the for the commercial market uh that was actually uh it was one of the core devs
that was hired to spearhead this initiative so core devs were involved in creating the cbdc for
the boston fed project hamilton his name escapes me right now but um the name of the dev
that was spearheading this effort so they're they're not unfamiliar with what scalable
bitcoins capable of they're just being very smart in how they deploy to the world so what
project hamilton does is is that it gives you programmable bitcoin without proof of work
but it's uh it's uh it's the architecture of of bitcoin utx so it gives you it's the same
architecture as bitcoin scalable programmable microtransactions um where your money is programmed
so oh we don't like your political view well we can program that you know you you don't have any of
these tokens left you know in your wallet so that idea is out there um the powers that
shouldn't be already embracing they already understand these technologies very well um this
is a game now of of how to um this is a game of information guys it really comes down to us as
people who are bitcoin and crypto natives to educate ourselves on what it was truly at satoshi gave us
so really this it's just a you know regardless of what they're planning or what they accept or
don't accept the bottom line here guys is is that they wanted to make us forget what satoshi
gave us that was the real like focal point here is to to put them for us to forget
what bitcoin is truly capable of that bitcoin is a turn complete machine that bitcoin allows
us to do microtransactions that bitcoin is a supercomputer that we have the option to store
data on chain if that's what we want to for any reason something that i'm not even solana can do
so it's remembering going back really studying what satoshi gave us and what i've come to
realize and learn is is that what satoshi gave us is you know humbly speaking is more
powerful than anything that we have in the crypto space right now floating i know that
sounds wild to a lot of people but in spite of it being the first it is the most badass technology
like team satoshi really really like they were at another level just the fact that the UTXO
model is just something that people have finally started to really embrace and it was due to this
hack whatever you want to call ordinals where we're finally able to teach people what
what the UTXO model and how it allows for scaling to be horizontal in parallel like any big tech
company that we don't have to share on a global state like ethereum that idea itself is very new
to computer science still that idea still is still is almost like a renegade idea that had to be
people have had to learn by being disobedient to the to the main narrative if you embrace
this idea and you learn the fullness of bitcoin you have to be someone that was willing to go out
and work in our Antarctica the forbidden place while everyone else was in you know wall street
you have to be that type of person that person that thinks for themselves that person that is
that doesn't take what other people say um uh as as gospel but really questions the the
predominant narrative um and you see the fruit that that bears in crypto because now the leading
the most some of the devs that are most like revered in the entire space were people who actually
took the plunge and went to learn what satoshi gave us it's like zhao we lu that now like you know
is in btc and he's like the dude that everybody looks up to regarding bitcoin turn completeness
i had him on my show alongside the who was the reference person a super test net and super
test net said on my show that his inspiration comes from zhao we lu and zhao we lu explained how
how like what satoshi gave us is like a jet fighter and what they took away from bitcoin in the form
of btc it became almost like a like a wagon you know in comparison to the jet fighter that that
that satoshi gave us um you have someone like dean little who was a big part of a jupiter swap
on solana who is now one of the leading devs if not the leading dev of zeus which is zbtc
on solana create what they were he was able to do is that he took he turned
solana into a btc into a bitcoin node into a bitcoin spv node where like that in itself is the most
badass second layer for btc that you could ever fathom because you have a fully robust
blockchain that scales like solana giving bitcoin the superpowers that bitcoin should have had
so that is that is something very commendable but where does dean come from also bsv so it's
almost like the best thing anyone can do in crypto if you really in my opinion if you really want
to be ahead of your of the competition ahead of your peers you have to go and really study
what satoshi gave us like really go back and study the code study the you know every the
architecture satoshi gave us and that's what's going to give you an edge um in any network in
crypto as we're seeing in solana and btc with the examples i just gave you so um did i answer your
question yeah totally one thing i actually i think that you've kind of pointed out here too is like
um and this is i would actually have a different opinion where you're like the core devs could
never kind of admit that the the big blockers were right or the big blockers is the was the only
path forward with bitcoin i actually think that and i've seen it a million times in crypto and
all over the world really it's not it's not a crypto thing people can absolutely be hypocrites
absolutely and it can still people will just just human nature like they'll be able to flush
it under the rug that that they fought against something you know tooth and nail and literally
ruin people's careers and drove them out of bitcoin in order to push this small blocker narrative
and then go completely opposite go big big block and people will just fucking whoosh it away it's
like they'll be able to i'm just saying they'll be able to do that and there won't be these
massive repercussions in my view i feel like they'll be able to do that and people we mad
who know the history like you or me or whoever and make me feel slighted and call them hypocrites and
be like this bullshit but in the end the majority of the world would just fucking wash it away like
oh well this is the way we're going now you know what i mean i just that just it just feels like
that will happen like they won't be called they'll be called out a little bit but it won't
be like a massive shift if you know what i'm saying yeah i mean and and to go back to jake's
question like in order for him to do that um well i mean black rock already signaled that
the 21 limit is is a question that could change right the 21 million cap on btc can change they
already said that on their promo video um black rock runs four out of the five biggest mining
operations in btc so no matter what they do they have to do it in a way that is um
um that is organized and and that's not it does not enter into any conflict with their
with their existing portfolios what we can expect and which is reasonable is for there to be
rivals in the market with a lot of money that will like to be the black swan in all of this
that's very plausible it could happen um there's a lot of money to be made there
could it happen i don't know how entrenched is the cabal within crypto to to propose an
actual opposition to btc i don't know i don't know how i mean you know i mean the network
affects a bitcoin it's like no no blockchain comes even nearly close to the kind of the
mind space awareness you know the secondary one is maybe like dogecoin you know i mean like i'm
ethereum most people have no idea what ethereum is like most real normies right don't have any
clue about you know these other blockchains like it's bitcoin and then there's nothing
you know what i mean for most people's mind space that's almost impossible to overcome
you know from an awareness perspective you know what i'm saying so regardless of the tech
we know too most people don't give a crap about the tech right um it's all just kind of like attention
games um yeah i don't know just what about what about this what about um you know bitcoin at
its core is a tool to fight financial oppression and after all these years regardless of number go
up or semantics of who was right who was wrong and um kind of where we are today
um as a tool of financial oppression is the world better off today with bitcoin stable coins the
industry existing than it's ever been before or how do you feel we are in terms of a global fight
of financial financial oppression we're definitely better off i i think that
what we have to realize is that btc and the stable coins that run the market um you can see them as
cushions for uh eventual real disruptive technology technology cushions for real
disruptive technology to land so in a sense the scyop whether it come by way of btc
actually scaling or now that this idea of a cryptocurrency is something that is that is
accepted by the world this opens up the the the opportunity for others to come in and and be
disruptive so did i answer your question yeah and just kind of you know i mean i think that we've
just made so much progress and it's easy to get bogged down in the weeds within the industry
of like not everything's perfect but we've made so much progress we've made like infinite progress to
get here where we are today and we you know we've it wasn't guaranteed that we would be here today so
however we got here today is the most important thing whether they were playing 40 chess or not
and they foresaw that they would eventually need big blocks or if we just got lucky and we ended
up in the position that we are today and we are going to kind of merge to big blocks
the only thing that actually matters in reality is that we did get here and then we have the
opportunity to make another move to go forward whether that brings more financial security to
the world or not we'll have to see but we actually did get here which kind of seems like the most
important thing of all time and i just think that you know it's really easy to kind of get
distracted with all these different communities everyone kind of having their own self-interest
trying to pump their own tokens and everything else but a world without bitcoin
even if it's flawed in today's design is like a hundred x better improvement than a world without
bitcoin and so i think it's just super important that we got here yeah i agree i agree um
and so which brings me back to like that which is always there for us which is privacy
you know it's it's it's regardless of what happens out in the external world of bitcoin and
and these transparent ledgers that are competing in the open market the fact that we have privacy coins
that alone gives me a lot of peace of mind knowing that we we have these technologies
to be able to survive in any worst case scenario so that makes me very happy
and granted we still can do a lot more there's a project for example called crypto kit radio
i think it was crypto kit radio i'll send you guys a link in a little bit
where they were sending bitcoin in 2014 2013 through ham radio
yeah that was incredible and and something that i think in europe people could be using right now
so yes we i i agree with you that in terms of market adoption i'm happy we got here
however i'm one of those guys that want to remind people that there's a lot more to bitcoin
that we should not forget we should study like this this aspect of being able to send bitcoin
through ham radio that cannot happen in btc right now because btc doesn't have an architecture for
spv for a simplified payment verification that is robust or well defined for people to be able to
send micro transactions via ham radio that's that's not that's not possible in btc but you
you can do it on other implementations of bitcoin and it gives me hope that if they
do scale bitcoin and they allow for micro transactions again then we'll be able to
have a more redundant bitcoin that doesn't rely just on the internet one question and this is kind
of a thought exercise i've had with not only bitcoiners but especially when i go to like a
litecoin conference and we're talking you know like the last litecoin summit i was at and they're
trying to like get adoption and stuff and i'm like guys just lean into like payments just be
you know a payment layer get on board basically what btc was trying to do in 2012 and 13
which is you get microsoft to accept litecoin and you you get your local store to accept litecoin and
just but they kept focusing on like number go up technology and i'm like it just feels like and
in the same way i'll roll it back into privacy coins like privacy coins would you be happy if
if manero or dash or whatever you're using it as a privacy layer just stayed flat and became
like widely accepted or does it does it always have to be based on you know number go up like how
do you look at that from like an adoption curve does there always have to be a number go up
aspect to these things for them to get widespread adoption first and foremost the people who we
should have been going after as the primary base of users were people who needed these
technologies the most like i said already people who need these technologies in their
day to day life and and it's not just the person who needs to buy you know drugs on silk road no
i'm talking about the the person who's selling tacos in the corner on some mexican street that
person who's unbanked instead of walking on the water of cash that puts himself vulnerable to
any criminal if you were to be able to exchange sats you know or monero i think that's
that's a better uh that that is a solution to that pain point that a lot of people that live in
the world that are unbanked have so no necessarily we don't see that's not even my i personally don't
care if number grow up or doesn't go up in regards to adoption because i agree with you
hundred percent adoption is the most important thing for example my buddies and i two of
my friends and i we onboarded over 70 businesses in austin texas to bitcoin in 2012 2013
so over 70 businesses in downtown austin texas were taking bitcoin as payment
you know so it's it's like i'm totally with you um we we need these technologies to be
adopted by the people because again otherwise you get very uh flaky uh user base you get like
d gens who really are there but not really a base of people who actually need the technology
or you get um the crapshoot of like who you know how much infusion of institutional capital
will be thrown into bitcoin or crypto and and then at that point in time how much can you do
um for the protocol once these giants own the majority share of the protocol and that's
kind of like where we're at because if this is this is a big a discussion that some people
having on the back end i'm gonna share with you guys which is this
btc has no choice but to scale we all agree that with that btc has no choice but to scale
even the bitcoin core devs like i've said they're already getting ready to roll out 19 op codes
they peter todd out of all people are expanding the the size of the op return
okay but there's an urgency to scale guys it's not like they can just sit around and just
allow another four years to pass they should have scaled btc in my opinion
two years ago three years ago when ordinals came out that's when all of this should have really
have rolled out um and i think that they're that now that the bull market is coming to its end
because we all we all understand ta to some degree we understand that this bull market
will eventually turn into a bear market um sometime by the end of this year next year
then they then come a bear market and come a next having if you haven't scaled by then
a second layer won't suffice won't meet the the demand of the miners um so what are the miners
going to do well sure you can say well the the block can you know the block reward can recalibrate
and yes but what about all this infrastructure in mining where does that go and remember
there are scalable bitcoin options out there that are also shaw 256 that are ready to receive these
miners that are non-stop working on creating use cases to embrace this mining architecture so
the what's going to save bitcoin overall it's going to be bitcoin itself and and and and so
i think the core devs are late um look at the how much pushback we're getting right now from
a lot of small blockers a lot of people in btc um there's a lot of pushback happening to bitcoin
core right now i don't think that's going to stop i think that's going to just augment in volume
in noise and and i honestly think cores is late to the game i think they're late to scaling bitcoin
and remember also that this is uh this is moving more and more out of their hands because players
like sailor a black rock uh governments like the u.s government are now owning this protocol
more and more each day and so and these people are not necessarily you know as smart as native
bitcoiners so how much will they you know what what is it that they will actually
allow to scale in the future and that's a big question it's like you have to do it now before
the network gets out of your hands um and and that's um it gets very political and i think it's
it's a huge mess guys it is a huge mess mostly you know why it's like such a huge huge mess
because bitcoin development became um political in its nature it sees and i hate to say this
out to the world but i'm sorry guys but it it it stopped being um decentralized as people would
want to tell you because um the user activated soft forks were easily to civil attack as i already
explained and because ultimately the core devs have veto power and having that veto power puts
them in the position of power of control over the network and that's why this move from peter
todd which received no bureaucratic backlash from from their inner circle is so it's something
that everybody jumps at because you have a lot of propositions that have been giving in in bitcoin
history that have had a lot of bureaucratic push like um uh bit 300 bit 301 in recent times that's
paul storks or more recently op cat op cat has had um has had to deal with with some bureaucratic
push and and we've and so it's um it's very telling yeah it's very yeah so it's it's almost
like i honestly think uh btc uh is out of time for scaling and i think that that's why and i think
they've realized that they're out of time and a lot of it comes down to like what i mentioned that in
in germany is 200 000 to mine one bitcoin worth 90 000 right now so the economic pressure's coming
how long are the miners going to put up with that before they move on to something else or
the price of bitcoin comes down one of the two again people it's well i mean and at the same
time it's like what if you know my goal in my life would be dude like the world needs to like
um rug the those who want to enslave humanity financially and it's almost at the point where
now bitcoin's at the mercy of those who have forever rugged humanity financially and guess
what black rock can easily do they can rug bitcoin financially they could do that why not they can
rug the entire crypto space and then what you're left with project hamilton you know written by
the core devs you know like that's what you have left you know and so it's uh it's so it's uh
this is what's what's mind boggling to me is is that the bitcoin op codes and the bitcoin
superpowers that they took away from btc you find them in project hamilton so when you talk about
hypocrisy i mean that right there is like that to me is fucking evil dude so you use bitcoin
superpowers you take out you take you take away the bitcoin superpowers from the people but you
give them to the cp dc from the boston fed like yeah what's going on and so um yeah so you know if
you really want to stay on the sidelines of all this bs privacy coins monero is the way to go
because it's just a peaceful place where where people are creating you know economies that scale
in the open market that are free from this coercion and um and this you know politicking
so yeah it's it's it is what it is guys i mean i it's it would see the thing is is that right now
we don't we don't know what to expect because we we know that the core devs have lived under
many different pressures um one of the pressures that they have had to live under was the pressure
of the constant threats from craig right for example that was a pressure that affected a lot of their
decisions in the past year in the past couple years um now they have other pressures you know
you got larry thinking the mix how are you gonna answer to his desires and needs so
yeah it's gonna be a battle we're gonna see how it rolls out man it's gonna be fun over the next
year or two to see how this this uh this shakes out but at the core you know we know we always
can have freedom of money it's just and we just get to choose it right if we want to choose it we can
have it um whether or not it's gonna be bitcoin it btc itself or something else um it they can't
stop it from happening if we want it to happen but jake maybe want to uh appreciate your time
thank you yeah man so it's always great chatting with you hearing the full philosophical side of
the debate you know that's tend to have been lost over the last few years in the crypto industry
whereas things have moved more towards you know financial lingo and attention games but it's you
know it's really encouraging to see that there still is this ideological debate that happens on
bitcoin because it shows that you know there's still real believers here who are uh who believe
in the technology more than about you know number go up which you know regardless of
what side of the fence you live live on or believe these are the type of conversations that need to
be held to ensure that all options have been explored and that the overall crypto community
is aware of what's going on so do you always appreciate your time and also just your
authenticity on it i have alpha for everyone watching and listening okay so we already know
that the future of bitcoin is one that aims to scale bitcoin as much as possible by enabling
more capacities on chain within btc itself that is not argued anymore we understand that bitcoin
has too incomplete capabilities on chain that's not that's not a point of contention that all
the core devs we all they all agree on this we all agree on this the whole bitcoin universe
agrees on this if you want to edge in this market and this is the this is the killer alpha
here guys if you want an edge in this market to know where the puck is going or it could possibly go
you got to go and study scalable bitcoin you got to study scalable bitcoin see it as a test net
as a sandbox where all of these op codes have already been enabled go over there and look
at what they're working on look at what they've discovered about bitcoin because
believe it or not that is exactly where the fountain of inspiration is coming for btc
bam the alpha has been said crypto vigilante always a great time raf your beast appreciate
everyone for joining us later today we are doing a live stream with luke right who's a big like
coin and bell's coin advocate speaking of utx so so we'll be diving into the world of ai
and uh we'll be and then thursday we're doing our afternoon show we're actually
going to be moving the morning show to 10 am pacific time moving forward as we do focus a
little bit more on agent hustle and the ai world but we'll still be encouraging and
having these awesome debates like we do with rap so until then everyone enjoy your
wednesday we'll be back later tonight at 5 p.m pacific stay safe out there and have a good
now we are dealing with a possible world war some will say we are already in a world war
my condolences and prayers go out to everyone suffering under tyranny it really sucks i'm really
sorry but it seems as if people are starting to wake up regarding crypto more and more each day
and so it's in the description right here to read where we give our secret sauce and what
we teach our subscribers because things are just that bad you know everyone needs this
information people need to know about sound cryptocurrencies that are actually private by
default and to know how to properly use crypto