WEBVTT 00:12.530 --> 00:19.750 and it's a party on the stream today and what a good time Mr crypto vigilante it's been 00:20.430 --> 00:24.130 what maybe a year or so since I came on your show man how have you been doing 00:24.850 --> 00:33.790 oh you're muted man you're on mute there we go until then man dude what 00:34.410 --> 00:39.430 what a crazy time in bitcoin with opera turn something that's been around for 00:39.990 --> 00:45.330 11 years now at this point 12 years almost and we're having some more as man crypto vigilante 00:45.330 --> 00:51.450 bro how have you been I'm doing pretty good thank you for having me on I'm pleasure to be here I 00:51.450 --> 00:56.370 really like the way you guys have always embraced the entirety of the space with emblem vault so 00:57.230 --> 01:04.010 big props to you guys for for having that the insights and to do that a lot of people haven't 01:04.010 --> 01:08.190 done that haven't embraced the entirety of the space so I want to commend you guys for doing that 01:08.910 --> 01:13.910 yeah I appreciate that it's tough you know moving in between ecosystems because a lot of 01:13.910 --> 01:20.810 people are so pigeonhole or they're so you know tribalistic or they tend to just kind of stick 01:20.810 --> 01:27.630 with their meme coins right or with their UTXOs or with their NFTs and so you know you lose 01:28.190 --> 01:32.690 community members when you bounce between these different ecosystems because it's just 01:32.690 --> 01:39.110 so much information to grasp but man without a doubt for me though the bitcoin ecosystem has 01:39.110 --> 01:44.570 always been my favorite I think maybe just because it has such a long history that there's always 01:44.570 --> 01:52.670 some drama that's happening but yeah like right now correct yeah your take on the current 01:52.670 --> 01:58.310 happenings and what's happened this week and and your thoughts on from your kind of historical 01:58.310 --> 02:06.430 point of view what's going on now and and how you view it well we we as individuals we can't 02:06.430 --> 02:11.870 really judge the intentions of others well we can like come to logical conclusions based on 02:11.870 --> 02:17.470 what we observe happening around and through the effects of what they do so 02:19.690 --> 02:25.970 BTC chose a path of scaling which was one of a layered approaches scaling and 02:25.970 --> 02:32.610 and it's pretty obvious to all of us who are watching and playing close attention that 02:32.610 --> 02:38.350 BTC is setting itself up to scale on chain but they have to do it in a very smart 02:40.470 --> 02:45.450 and a very smart way that it does not arouse suspicion and that it does not 02:46.130 --> 02:52.830 push people to look at big blocker alternatives and the main foundation for for my analysis 02:52.830 --> 02:57.730 in this is is based on the fact that they allowed ordinals to exist to begin with 02:57.730 --> 03:01.330 they could have shut that down the moment they came on to stage 03:04.170 --> 03:07.830 we also have to keep in mind that since over a year now 03:09.330 --> 03:15.430 rusty Russell has been spearheading amongst the core devs what they call the great script 03:15.430 --> 03:20.890 restoration which is to re-enable over 19 upcodes to BTC 03:23.250 --> 03:29.410 now for anyone who has been paying attention for the past decade or so this is big block 03:29.410 --> 03:38.790 Bitcoin vision this is this is the understanding that BTC is coming up up against a wall 03:39.450 --> 03:47.490 where the subsidy that Satoshi left us will not suffice the the capital influx that is coming in 03:47.490 --> 03:54.550 via fiat to drive the price of the coin up and so I have to verify these numbers still but I was 03:54.550 --> 04:01.030 looking at over the top this morning a lot of people are saying that it costs around $200,000 04:01.030 --> 04:09.430 to mine one BTC that's around $90,000 so the price of BTC has to keep climbing 04:10.230 --> 04:15.590 and we're at the point where I have to ask this question it's a rhetorical question right 04:16.030 --> 04:23.310 how much higher can it go and and who what other players can you onboard well you've 04:23.310 --> 04:27.750 already onboarded black rock you've already onboarded mastercard you've onboarded 04:28.590 --> 04:35.510 wall street through micro strategy you you're onboarding the planet already and 04:36.470 --> 04:43.370 you really have to give the market in my opinion a lot more than what BTC is offering in order for 04:43.370 --> 04:49.050 more capital to be infused into it so you're onboarding the US government you're onboarding 04:49.670 --> 04:53.830 a lot of state governments a lot of local governments throughout the world but yet 04:54.570 --> 05:01.570 um there's still this pressure that BTC has on itself in order to keep the price over a certain 05:01.570 --> 05:10.130 level and that's and that's something that the core devs have it's you know I I have not 05:10.130 --> 05:16.210 privy to their interior communication but I do see what they've what they've proposed to the 05:16.210 --> 05:24.630 market in real time so for example the the person who who proposed this uh the the expansion of the 05:24.630 --> 05:30.150 up return limit of Peter Todd about a year and a half ago gave a talk at Monerotopia where he 05:30.150 --> 05:37.770 was proposing directly taxing your BTC wallets to subsidize the miners and this is called demiurge 05:38.350 --> 05:42.850 I I was the only one to speak up and I told him you know what I think we all agree here 05:42.850 --> 05:49.850 that taxation is theft and I don't think anyone's going to agree with you imposing that on investors 05:49.850 --> 05:54.870 of bitcoin contributors to bitcoin that they are going to be taxed directly out of their wallets 05:54.870 --> 06:00.670 in order to subsidize the miners the other um idea that has been thrown around and it's 06:00.670 --> 06:06.490 something that now it's being openly spoken about is to break the 21 million cap in market 06:06.490 --> 06:17.030 supply for BTC itself and there's a lot of reasons given excuses given and justifications given such as 06:17.030 --> 06:24.030 we don't we there's a lot of coins that have been lost and also Satoshi there's even the proposal 06:24.030 --> 06:31.430 out there that to steal Satoshi's coins from them. Satoshi's coins come on man. Yeah no that's 06:31.430 --> 06:37.670 real that's that's so it's so crazy to hear this from people who you would think would be more of 06:37.670 --> 06:44.050 a libertarian bent to impose tax on people and stuff it's literally insanity to hear that sort 06:44.050 --> 06:50.250 of that sort of thing I don't know man are they you know well I guess in the way you you would 06:50.250 --> 06:58.050 think well you know bitcoin has this kind of libertarian birth so we'd say or at least ideal 06:58.050 --> 07:06.030 at the beginning and how far it's moved maybe from that um and I mean even the whole block size war 07:06.910 --> 07:13.390 very much I mean you know I would say I would take the opposite position of the small blockers 07:13.390 --> 07:17.930 but at the same time I would admit and I would say you know actually the small blockers 07:18.530 --> 07:24.190 were correct in solving the first issue which is how do these coins have any value at all 07:24.190 --> 07:30.270 right what we've seen in any other attempts basically is that they go in the opposite 07:30.270 --> 07:35.790 direction against bitcoin right even if they have you know similar security principles and 07:35.790 --> 07:40.590 hard money and all these sort of other things uh they have a very difficult time 07:41.230 --> 07:45.590 storing value or holding their value and the bitcoiners the small blockers 07:46.250 --> 07:51.950 like they they were right in that but now we're getting into this like secondary effect 07:51.950 --> 07:57.710 which is like how does the network support itself right how can we ensure that mine yeah go ahead 07:57.710 --> 08:04.170 this was the crux of the civil war was the the big blockers have the foresight to see that this was 08:04.170 --> 08:10.930 going to be an inevitability in the future now I agree with you in that the small blockers 08:10.930 --> 08:17.530 made bitcoin appetable palatable to the powers that be because they took away the teeth and 08:17.530 --> 08:22.470 claws away from bitcoin and made bitcoin into something that was docile something that can 08:22.470 --> 08:29.430 be tamed something that does not pose a threat to the systems that run the world so bitcoin has 08:29.430 --> 08:36.130 a place now with the banking system it gives it gives the banking system a reason to be it 08:36.130 --> 08:42.410 gives the big tech world a reason to exist alongside bitcoin a mastercard can exist 08:42.410 --> 08:49.270 alongside bitcoin bitcoin in its original design um proposes something else to the world which is 08:49.950 --> 08:55.190 we don't need the legacy system we can do better and that's that's something that we all have to 08:55.190 --> 08:59.870 agree that it's something that is that such a threat was never going to be fully embraced 09:00.750 --> 09:05.530 by the powers that be it would be naive for us as bitcoiners to assume that the fullness of 09:05.530 --> 09:14.110 bitcoin was going to be embraced readily by big tech and fintech so i i i agree with you um but then 09:14.110 --> 09:20.230 again it's it's it's interesting what's happening because it is the core devs now who spearhead the 09:20.230 --> 09:25.610 small blocker initiative during the civil war that are now spearheading the initiative to be the 09:25.610 --> 09:31.410 big blockers within btc now so i mean think about that though is this the genius of it and 09:31.410 --> 09:37.130 i'm not saying any of them are particularly like plan this but if if this is if the they trojan 09:37.130 --> 09:44.470 horse it in by making it small block right store of value trojan horse it in wall street can package 09:44.470 --> 09:50.530 it up in etfs and sell it us government wants to buy it and they trojan horse it in and then 09:50.530 --> 09:55.770 they make it big block right is that the solution like is that the thing like oh my god they 09:55.770 --> 10:00.930 trojan horse bitcoin and now it eats the world like is that do you see that as a possibility 10:00.930 --> 10:07.510 or that that's the only that is the only path that they have um and that is uh if they were to see 10:07.510 --> 10:12.750 this in hindsight and plan for this in foresight i got to give it to them genius move because 10:12.750 --> 10:17.770 yeah they allowed bitcoin to step in and be embraced by all the giants by all the governments 10:18.370 --> 10:24.450 and and and notice how this is being carried about in a very cautious way they've already 10:24.450 --> 10:28.730 signaled to the world that that is the path that they're taking and again uh the great 10:28.730 --> 10:38.490 script restoration ordinals so we already know that this is the path forward um and i think that 10:39.510 --> 10:45.450 the they have to do it in a very um cautious way because there is already a scalable bitcoin 10:46.370 --> 10:51.070 there is already a version of bitcoin that is fully scalable with all of the op codes so 10:51.690 --> 10:56.790 if a btc has to be very cautious in the way it does that because if it doesn't if it does 10:56.790 --> 11:02.250 it in a way that um is too aggressive then people would ask themselves well why what why won't i hedge 11:02.250 --> 11:08.550 myself with a scalable bitcoin version uh like bsv or even bitcoin cash if you want to argue for that 11:08.550 --> 11:13.190 as well why wouldn't what did i hedge for that with with with a scalable bitcoin that already 11:13.190 --> 11:19.890 exists and so i agree with you it's very genius if this is something that they planned out in 11:19.890 --> 11:25.090 advance and i got to give it to you to them if that was the case you know very good job 11:25.090 --> 11:30.490 you sigh out the world into accepting bitcoin and now you're you're on the path to scaling bitcoin 11:31.370 --> 11:36.910 and yeah i don't see any other path forward for btc because there's also a conflict of interest 11:36.910 --> 11:42.590 that we have to keep in mind that they have been selling uh the world the you know the vc world 11:42.590 --> 11:48.210 a lot of investors have been sold on this layered approach to scaling so they still need to cater 11:48.210 --> 11:54.150 to that audience and letting them know that their investment was not a sunk cost they already 11:54.150 --> 12:00.590 made a horrible mistake with the lightning network which was a complete flop and now they're they're 12:00.590 --> 12:06.350 like redirecting the focus of investment into what they're which is big block technology now properly 12:06.350 --> 12:11.810 speaking not a layer to process scaling but to say that bitcoin is turned complete that bitcoin 12:11.810 --> 12:17.610 that you can uh compute script on chain that or that you can do the computation outside of 12:17.610 --> 12:22.770 the blockchain and attested on chain while still having your cake and eating it your cake being 12:22.770 --> 12:28.190 not having digital footprint on the blockchain but having the computations done outside of the 12:28.190 --> 12:35.090 blockchain so so there is that whole world of venture capital that has invested and 12:35.090 --> 12:39.030 reinvented itself into many different uh layered approaches to scaling 12:40.350 --> 12:46.090 so they have this is the the difficulty that btc faces is that on the one hand 12:46.650 --> 12:52.410 it's moving in this direction but on the other hand they have a rival network that already has 12:52.410 --> 13:00.650 everything ready to go if words gets out by the wrong person who has a little bit too much clout 13:00.650 --> 13:06.530 in btc that there is a better way of doing things than doing it through a layered approach that you 13:06.530 --> 13:13.890 can do it on chain then you have now a rival bt a rival bitcoin camp that poses a giant 13:13.890 --> 13:20.150 existential threat to btc where in which this rival btc a bitcoin uh group of people that have 13:20.150 --> 13:26.530 kept building on chain building on bitcoin's original design this this group of bitcoiners can 13:26.530 --> 13:33.210 not only flip btc theoretically but in doing so also consume the entirety of the bitcoin infrastructure 13:34.070 --> 13:41.070 so it's uh it's it's a very um right so what you're saying is that they need to bring in big 13:41.070 --> 13:48.570 blocks or some some form of it while still selling and holding on to this like store value 13:48.570 --> 13:54.290 kind of narrative and and kind of morph into what people were fighting for in 2017 13:54.930 --> 13:58.970 in a way that's palatable and everybody just doesn't go oh this is bullshit 13:58.970 --> 14:03.330 let's go back to the let's just grab one of these other systems it's already built out 14:03.330 --> 14:08.310 and already functioning and move our money over there basically or move our value over 14:08.310 --> 14:14.250 there um correct so basically not be called out for the the the bad vibes they created in 14:14.250 --> 14:19.670 2016 and 17 by calling everybody scammers for trying to do big blocks and then do big blocks 14:19.670 --> 14:27.530 themselves and you know kind of i don't know yeah exactly that's that rode out which has a 14:27.530 --> 14:32.110 lot of pitfalls in it as you see like people are already pushing back well i mean even michael 14:32.110 --> 14:37.090 sailor is investing his research and development in a project he calls orange where he is 14:37.090 --> 14:46.210 enabling real world assets on chain so the fact that he's even uh you know his entire 14:46.210 --> 14:52.130 he gave a whole talk where he seated the place to the lead person who leads that rnd effort within 14:52.130 --> 14:58.970 strategy to give a talk on this topic at the last bitcoin conference um says a lot and and it shows 14:58.970 --> 15:05.570 you that that is indeed where this is all moving and and it's it's very they have to play it 15:05.570 --> 15:11.690 very very tight like you described and the best case in there about like sailor like with uh you 15:11.690 --> 15:16.430 know i mean there was that famous video before the ethereum etf came out where he's like only 15:16.430 --> 15:20.690 bitcoin bitcoin's the only i don't know if you remember that where he's like there is no second 15:20.690 --> 15:26.510 best there is no second best but there's no way that basically ethereum is going to get the etf 15:26.510 --> 15:30.910 there's no way it's going to be accepted by this administration and then literally like a week 15:30.910 --> 15:36.090 later to happen right and he had to like just he just pivoted right and you almost see like these 15:36.090 --> 15:42.110 guys are just gonna you know i i feel like there there's enough smart people there obviously 15:42.110 --> 15:48.950 some you know some brilliant people in that kind of core group who it just feels like man they 15:48.950 --> 15:53.950 they're probably going to figure this out um and and even even with all of the kind of 15:54.790 --> 16:01.990 backbiting lying manipulating it just feels like they did it in 2017 it feels like they're 16:01.990 --> 16:04.870 going to be able to do it again do you feel like they're going to be able to do it again 16:05.470 --> 16:11.650 a hundred percent because they have veto power um and what people don't realize is that core runs 16:11.650 --> 16:16.730 bitcoin core is is is they they run bitcoin they you know they gave people the illusion 16:16.730 --> 16:21.370 that they had some sort of democracy with the user activated soft fork but in reality that was 16:21.370 --> 16:27.510 no democracy because i myself could have spun up a hundred thousand servers and made giving you 16:27.510 --> 16:32.790 the illusion that i had i i was there were a hundred thousand individual votes for a user 16:32.790 --> 16:38.930 activated soft fork so there is they have veto power and just look at how much bureaucracy 16:38.930 --> 16:43.490 anyone that wants to propose anything good for bitcoin has to go through with the bit process 16:43.490 --> 16:48.250 and all of a sudden peter todd yesterday just comes in and says i'm going to do this 16:49.150 --> 16:56.330 and he just you know the bureaucracy is cleared for him there is no and so rightfully so people who 16:56.330 --> 17:02.990 are more purist within btc that actually want to lower the block size like uh luke dasher has been 17:02.990 --> 17:08.910 promoting they rightfully so are our open arms like what's going on here and and we should promote 17:08.910 --> 17:16.550 you know the the version of bitcoin that stays in line for the reason why we had the civil war 17:16.550 --> 17:23.790 which is to keep bitcoin as a as as a store of value with no spamming of the blockchain 17:23.790 --> 17:29.730 was their argument and so a lot you see a lot of people um consorting around a bitcoin not 17:29.730 --> 17:35.350 implementation and they said and there's pretty much saying a bitcoin core is compromised bitcoin 17:35.350 --> 17:42.530 core is is a place that is centrally planned and bitcoin core is is a harming bitcoin but 17:42.530 --> 17:48.810 this is if you take the the small blocker narrative to its logical conclusion 17:49.530 --> 17:54.190 then they're correct but if you step back and you start assuming things the way we you know 17:54.190 --> 17:58.450 within this conversation we've been talking about how maybe this is just bitcoin court 17:58.450 --> 18:04.950 playing at a higher level where they're actually making bitcoin appetable to the world to then 18:04.950 --> 18:10.830 enable the opcodes in a scale the block size and in scale these bitcoin superpowers that 18:10.830 --> 18:16.930 we know are possible then i think is genius so um the problem again with that approach 18:16.930 --> 18:25.490 is is that bitcoin core has to be very cautious that by doing so they're not signaling to the 18:25.490 --> 18:31.530 big blocker uh camp of bitcoin because because that is their one existential threat the only 18:31.530 --> 18:39.410 existential threat for btc is another genesis block bitcoin that is already fully scalable 18:39.410 --> 18:46.330 because if that baby takes off then it's it doesn't only again flip btc in price but also 18:46.330 --> 18:51.230 consumes this infrastructure in the process so it's um they have to be they have to play very 18:51.230 --> 18:57.530 careful and i think that they have the penchant to go ahead and do this now because you have the 18:57.530 --> 19:04.750 two leaders of both uh big blocker initiatives craig rite and roger verre being hammered down 19:04.750 --> 19:10.690 by the law and who is behind the hammering of the law against these two big block leaders 19:11.510 --> 19:18.770 well there is a popular uh red thread where greg maxwell threatens um roger verre with 19:18.770 --> 19:24.750 in working with the tax authorities to go after roger and he and he says out loud he says 19:25.570 --> 19:32.710 on the reddit thread if if someone were to do this they would get a 30 out of however much the 19:32.710 --> 19:40.190 the irs would get back from the person who's been infringing on on whatever irs parameters are broken 19:40.710 --> 19:47.010 so and then you have the whole copa trial against craig rite which is like the entirety of big tech 19:47.720 --> 19:52.570 going after one bit coiner i guess this is the what's like a lot of people don't realize 19:52.570 --> 20:02.870 is that you have mark zuckerberg open ai uh jack dorsi michael sailor you you literally have the big 20:02.870 --> 20:12.530 tech cabal forming around going against one bit coiner because he has patents but then again you 20:12.530 --> 20:17.330 mean to tell me that like big tech doesn't possess patents and that they don't fight for their 20:17.330 --> 20:23.210 patents so it's almost like how are you how how is big tech out of all and out of all sectors in the 20:23.210 --> 20:29.030 economy going to position themselves as all of a sudden the cypher punk open source ethos 20:30.130 --> 20:34.490 champions that should be odd to any listener and they should be questioning themselves like 20:34.490 --> 20:41.050 what's going on here why patents why patents for me but not for thee what's going on here so 20:41.050 --> 20:50.350 so i think that having the stage set where you have the two leaders you know i wouldn't call them 20:50.350 --> 20:55.090 leaders because no one's really a leader in bitcoin but two big figureheads in big in the big block 20:55.090 --> 21:03.310 world being pressured legally by by the small blocker network i think the small blocker network 21:03.310 --> 21:09.950 kind of is now saying well now we can scale bitcoin now we can move and and do it in a 21:09.950 --> 21:16.630 way where our rivals the big blockers have been crippled so we can go in and so i honestly think 21:16.630 --> 21:22.230 that's what's happening right now um well tell me what the negative of that would be other than 21:22.230 --> 21:28.870 you know bag holding uh you know people holding different bags other than that as someone who 21:28.870 --> 21:34.370 i know believes in you know freedom and liberty what would be the negative of this actually 21:34.370 --> 21:40.710 working if this actually worked and bitcoin actually became like a medium of exchange again 21:41.710 --> 21:48.590 and had had basically you know trojan horse its way into the u.s government and wall street and 21:48.590 --> 21:53.530 everything and then becomes the medium of exchange fully scalable through big blocks 21:54.210 --> 21:59.490 what's give me the negative outcome of that other aside from potentially downside to other 21:59.490 --> 22:05.990 people's bags so i don't really think there's a negative there because you know there is the 22:05.990 --> 22:10.330 ideal world how we would like the world to be but then there's a real world and the real 22:10.330 --> 22:17.890 world is always present and ideally you would have wanted a bitcoin in my opinion that empowers 22:17.890 --> 22:24.850 the people that is the anti samson mile approach which is bitcoin is for the person who lives with 22:24.850 --> 22:30.290 less than two dollars a day bitcoin is for that person in the emerging economy that you go into 22:30.290 --> 22:37.990 any plaza in latin america and they're hustling several minutes you empower them that is the 22:37.990 --> 22:43.530 user base that we should have all been going after not the person who has readily available 22:43.530 --> 22:49.770 credit who is within a first world capitals market the person who is see that person really 22:49.770 --> 22:55.630 doesn't need bitcoin that person already has the the safety net of a welfare state that person 22:55.630 --> 23:01.990 really doesn't need bitcoin crypto has not gone after that world which is over three billion 23:02.770 --> 23:08.330 unbanked crypto has not helped those individuals out because us in the first world feel like we 23:08.330 --> 23:12.870 know better that's always been kind of like our sin that we know better we know how to help 23:12.870 --> 23:18.510 them the truth is is that if we have better technology what we do is just offer it to them 23:18.510 --> 23:23.050 and for them to figure things out on their own that has always been my dream for bitcoin 23:23.050 --> 23:30.510 that is my goal for bitcoin regardless of who embraces it now the problem by the by the small 23:30.510 --> 23:37.290 blocker approach to sigh up these elite up and and have them buy into a harmless bitcoin to then 23:37.290 --> 23:43.470 later on enable the bitcoin superpowers the problem with that is that now you have a 23:43.470 --> 23:49.310 bitcoin that is captured it's a bitcoin that is captured by big tech and big fintech and this 23:49.310 --> 23:58.350 bitcoin that is captured now it poses um a a an opposition to a world where people are empowered 23:58.350 --> 24:06.330 and we find ourselves now moving into a more of a dystopia environment where um it's it's really 24:06.330 --> 24:14.810 a corporate um proof of stake model but on steroids where only a few will have access to um 24:17.070 --> 24:21.770 i really do hope that what we're talking about comes true because it still gives an opening to 24:21.770 --> 24:27.670 that sector in the market that needs bitcoin the most i really hope that this happens but uh but 24:27.670 --> 24:32.950 but i i think i might my dream would have been for to have never given these legacy players 24:32.950 --> 24:38.710 a seat at the table yeah but bitcoin to have been a grassroots effort that opposes them bitcoin with 24:38.710 --> 24:44.610 teeth and that's why to this day i'm still an advocate for big block bitcoin and if not big block 24:44.610 --> 24:51.370 bitcoin then definitely privacy coins because privacy coins get us there immediately um bitcoin 24:51.370 --> 24:58.150 with teeth bitcoin aggressive bitcoin big block bitcoin um gets us there out in the open by 24:58.150 --> 25:05.490 competing out in the open market on a transparent ledger the the so i i welcome the world as is 25:05.490 --> 25:13.830 but i no matter what um that should be our foundation for adoption um and it's not like a 25:13.830 --> 25:19.730 normative uh should but rather it's it's the most stable foundations people who are using 25:19.730 --> 25:24.370 microtransactions in their day-to-day life who don't do it out of pleasure or out of 25:24.370 --> 25:29.950 some addiction to gambling and we see with with with uh degeneromics but rather um people who 25:29.950 --> 25:35.470 need it every day those the unbanked that should be our focus that should be our foundation how 25:35.470 --> 25:42.250 do we help them out it's interesting though like with uh the idea of captured bitcoin like i've 25:42.250 --> 25:49.810 gotten into chats with luke on on x and stuff and you know and he we we went down the rabbit hole 25:49.810 --> 25:55.790 of like you know what percentage of users need to run their own full node for bitcoin to you know 25:55.790 --> 26:03.470 truly be decentralized the number he gave me was 85 percent and i was like luke that's net that's 26:03.470 --> 26:08.530 that's completely impossible and he's like i know but it's still what the number we need 26:08.530 --> 26:14.650 what are you even talking about then why are we there's no way on earth that could happen right 26:14.650 --> 26:18.590 and so some of them i don't know there's just like a delusion there of like just the 26:18.590 --> 26:26.110 way humans operate i think at least in luke's case uh and i gave us the means to do that see that's 26:26.110 --> 26:30.810 the thing that that they try to make you forget he gave us the simplified payment verification 26:30.810 --> 26:35.970 where you as the user or the merchant doesn't have to have a full node like what you would call 26:35.970 --> 26:42.630 the whole blockchain but rather user user has has the block header and like now now you're 26:42.630 --> 26:47.170 asking yourself well do you trust cryptography or not and if you really do need to verify the 26:47.170 --> 26:54.910 blockchain well then you can go ahead and do that as well right so it's um um it's interesting now how 26:54.910 --> 27:02.430 luke is the the small blocker leading the small block him and jack dorsi actually yeah the small 27:02.430 --> 27:09.450 blockers that want to remain pure to the ultimate small blocker vision but then those who call the 27:09.450 --> 27:15.970 shots in bitcoin the core devs are actually now the big blockers um so take take us through 27:15.970 --> 27:23.010 what would happen if this peter todd um you know proposal goes through and they remove the arbitrary 27:23.010 --> 27:29.190 data limit of opera turn right because that's where this whole debate uh began you know through your 27:29.190 --> 27:34.970 perspective you know what are the second order effects like what you mentioned at the very 27:34.970 --> 27:40.010 beginning that this is kind of the entrance to you know big blocker technology but you know 27:40.010 --> 27:44.770 just take us through one by one of what you think happens uh if that is merged into bitcoin 27:44.770 --> 27:51.410 core entrepreneurs would be able to do more on chain would be able to arbitrage more data on chain 27:52.040 --> 27:58.290 but more use cases would be able to be written on the blockchain so you would have another 27:58.290 --> 28:05.390 ordinal's boom and and is there any and is there anything specific just um you know just 28:05.390 --> 28:12.700 to kind of help us visualize why you know the small blockers or are terrified or even you 28:12.700 --> 28:17.420 in this repo saying that bitcoin becomes a shitcoin and what type of you know entrepreneurial 28:17.980 --> 28:27.380 options will be available if that's merged well they they have this um idea look i i think everyone 28:27.380 --> 28:37.900 here should uh google on youtube um luke dashers um presentation at the magical uh bitcoin friends 28:37.900 --> 28:42.160 conference i think that's what it was called the magical friends conference magical crypto 28:42.160 --> 28:48.720 conference crypto friends conference you'll find his talk at where he proposes lowering the block 28:48.720 --> 28:58.400 size even more so if you want to take the the the small blocker um rhetoric or worldview narrative 28:58.400 --> 29:05.400 to its logical conclusion uh luke dashers 100 right if you're someone who is a purist and 29:05.400 --> 29:11.200 doesn't not want any data arbitrage on the blockchain he just want to keep it as a store 29:11.200 --> 29:16.680 value and nothing else than than that's then then that's what then then that is your logical 29:16.680 --> 29:21.360 conclusion and i'm all for even lowering the block size on btc just let's just get there 29:21.360 --> 29:27.460 to its logical conclusion as fast as possible screen out all ordinal's uh transactions 29:28.500 --> 29:35.440 the issue here is that there is no solution that they're proposing to um 29:35.440 --> 29:44.500 um to do away with the problem that we have once the block reward subsidy decreases even more 29:44.920 --> 29:50.080 yeah and and and no one's really offering a solution that makes sense again the solutions are 29:50.080 --> 29:57.600 still month is still satoshi's coins i'll break the 21 million cap which people are actually 29:57.600 --> 30:03.680 taking it serious it's a as a serious proposal demiurge which is directly stealing your bitcoin 30:03.680 --> 30:10.100 from your wallet uh whenever you know whatever algorithm they set it up so that they so that the 30:10.100 --> 30:16.920 miners just take money out of your wallet to subsidize themselves so taxation on the blockchain 30:17.760 --> 30:25.660 so all of these proposals are preposterous i had a conversation with peter todd at monerotopia 30:26.320 --> 30:30.420 and he laughed at me and i'm like dude we are showing you the way on how to 30:30.880 --> 30:38.880 have a scalable bitcoin on btc with ordinal's at the tights of ordinal's over 80 of transactions 30:38.880 --> 30:46.640 and transaction fees were through transactions that happened on chain when people were trading 30:46.640 --> 30:53.040 data on chain things that people found valuable no matter whether it was a cartoon or a real 30:53.040 --> 31:01.900 world asset traded on chain so we showed you the way of how to subsidize the miners into the future 31:01.900 --> 31:07.380 you just have to allow us to expand he laughed at me he says that proposal stupid whatever but i'm 31:07.380 --> 31:12.080 like dude we're proving you we're proving it to you with the little bit space that we have 31:12.080 --> 31:19.220 through taproot to be able to show you what an on-chain economy looks like everything and it's 31:19.220 --> 31:25.020 my um our take is is that everything that you see solana doing right now could have been done on 31:25.020 --> 31:34.200 bitcoin since 2009 but for some reason this group did not allow that now quietly at the same time 31:34.200 --> 31:43.420 they're enabling op cat um and about 17 other op codes that they're working on deploying one by 31:43.420 --> 31:50.220 one but in order to do that effectively they have to increase the bandwidth to be able to compute 31:50.220 --> 31:56.520 script on chain and they have to do that so this is i this is the first step in many steps in 31:56.520 --> 32:02.520 order to achieve that so the the person from core or the representative from blockchain will 32:02.520 --> 32:08.040 never say out loud that they are becoming a that they're turning bitcoin into a big blocker 32:08.040 --> 32:14.020 blockchain they cannot say that they cannot say that if they say that then they're saying 32:14.020 --> 32:19.600 we were wrong during the civil war and the bsv and the bitcoin cash people were right they can't 32:19.600 --> 32:28.020 say that because these two other networks still pose a huge existential threat to btc so i i 32:28.020 --> 32:33.020 think that in to answer your question i think this is going to give entrepreneurs more of an 32:33.020 --> 32:40.280 opportunity to do cool things on chain um op cat is something that i expect for op cat and 32:40.280 --> 32:47.600 orange michael salers um implementation of real world assets on btc um that's all going to be 32:48.220 --> 32:52.920 um i think we're gonna have a good real awesome announcements coming up next month at the bitcoin 32:52.920 --> 32:58.560 conference on these fronts so btc itself is all moving into this direction you have to remember 32:58.560 --> 33:05.460 that after the lightning network failed um and it failed right when ordinals hit the ground why did it 33:05.460 --> 33:10.800 fail when ordinals hit the ground because a bunch of big blockers stepped in with a lot of experience 33:10.800 --> 33:16.940 with bitcoin script stepped into btc to make a lot of money in btc with ordinals and they 33:16.940 --> 33:21.700 demanded from the lightning network devs hey are you guys uh can we actually work here what 33:21.700 --> 33:25.720 do you guys have of what developer stacks you have for applications using the lightning 33:25.720 --> 33:31.180 network and the answer was we don't have any the answer was go build it yourself so 33:32.190 --> 33:37.900 that moment in time we had a big problem where a lot of lightning network developers left 33:37.900 --> 33:48.160 and they rage quit because the lightning network is a failure and so yes uh and so then um the 33:48.160 --> 33:59.360 big um hurrah was let's grab let's let's so a couple a couple of developers in btc uh linus i think is 33:59.360 --> 34:06.820 his name and super test net they both got inspiration from a from a big blocker who who him and his 34:06.820 --> 34:12.420 crew in my opinion are some of the most the biggest geniuses in in in bitcoin right now when it 34:12.420 --> 34:20.720 comes to computing bitcoin on chain and this is jawei lu and escript who are from bsv and so um 34:21.780 --> 34:29.580 they are inspired by him and they create their own virtual machine on btc and it's called bitvm 34:29.580 --> 34:36.860 the leading implementation of of that is called bitlayer and then they start selling versions 34:36.860 --> 34:45.940 of big of now of bitvm to the vc world so now that the lightning network is in trouble they 34:45.940 --> 34:52.380 start selling another approach to layer 2 scaling in order to do that better you need to enable 34:52.380 --> 35:00.420 opcodes within btc and lo and behold the the the core devs are already in the process of enabling 35:00.420 --> 35:07.600 that on below they're not really telling anyone about that because again this is this is a pr 35:07.600 --> 35:14.320 it could be a pr backlash you can't say that you're turning btc into a big blocker blockchain 35:15.100 --> 35:23.300 when you still have bsv with tera node coming out as processing over a million transactions a second 35:24.020 --> 35:30.820 so like you can't do that you have to be very quiet in the way you deploy things so then this 35:30.820 --> 35:37.680 one of the top developers of bsv jawei lu steps into btc and a lot of the developers from bsv 35:37.680 --> 35:45.040 come into btc bringing their expertise and they now position themselves as the teachers to all 35:45.040 --> 35:49.960 of these new developers that have arrived to btc teaching them about how to um compute 35:49.960 --> 35:56.800 script on chain how how to work with the utx o model because most of these developers come from 35:56.800 --> 36:01.160 blockchains like ethereum where they're only used to working with the account base model and so 36:01.160 --> 36:05.960 they're teaching all of these developers and now you have a whole group now there's a battalion 36:05.960 --> 36:13.440 of bitcoin developers that understand what was once forbidden to say that bitcoin is 36:13.440 --> 36:18.480 turing complete that bitcoin is a turing complete machine meaning that bitcoin is original 36:18.480 --> 36:24.840 design as given to us by satoshi when you scale that satoshi version you have a super computer 36:24.840 --> 36:31.000 ready for you to uh write into it whatever you want this is bitcoin with teeth this is bitcoin 36:31.000 --> 36:36.500 with claws this is dangerous bitcoin this bitcoin is very dangerous to the establishment it's 36:36.500 --> 36:43.040 bitcoin with microtransactions that serve the first world so how again you can't say these 36:43.040 --> 36:48.600 things out loud i'm one of those renegades that say these things out loud um and i guess that's 36:48.600 --> 36:55.780 just part of my branding so now you have xiawei lu you have the guys from unisat you guys have 36:55.780 --> 37:02.680 the guys from dot swap the guys from ordinal's wallet coming into btc and now they're looked 37:02.680 --> 37:08.840 upon as like the leaders of how to scale bitcoin and xiawei lu is is going all over the world 37:08.840 --> 37:16.520 now teaching people on how to compute script on btc and he's one of the leading devs um outside 37:16.520 --> 37:24.300 of core teaching people on op cat and opti ctv and so in other words this is all big blocker 37:24.300 --> 37:31.780 technology in being embraced by by by btc and so and it's got the again it's got the help of 37:31.780 --> 37:36.240 of the likes of andrew upholstra who's actually working on it he's one of the core devs 37:36.240 --> 37:41.540 i interviewed him back in the day and rosti roso another core dev and now you even have the 37:41.540 --> 37:47.500 signaling of someone like peter todd who do you think he'd be one who's most upstanched who was 37:47.500 --> 37:53.840 very much ostensibly opposed to any um on-chain scaling even in my conversation that i share 37:53.840 --> 38:00.760 with him that i that i had at monarotopia here he's now opening up the up return limit 38:02.140 --> 38:05.640 so that's what's happening here guys what's happening here is is that that's where we're 38:05.640 --> 38:12.200 going and like what adam said earlier which was like his logical uh i think that's very smart of you 38:12.200 --> 38:16.620 adam to actually come to our realization right away because believe it or not it's taken a lot of 38:16.620 --> 38:21.140 people a long time to come to our realization that oh my god this is probably what these guys did 38:21.140 --> 38:27.760 to begin with which is that they made bitcoin docile something tame tameable something that 38:27.760 --> 38:32.260 doesn't have teeth doesn't have claws something that is not aggressive to the powers that be 38:32.750 --> 38:40.820 let the powers that be embrace it and once it's embrace wake this animal up and that very well 38:40.820 --> 38:46.100 could be what is happening it is the only path available to btc a lot of people would say no 38:46.100 --> 38:51.060 raff you know what the only opposition that i see to what i'm saying is this raff um sure 38:51.060 --> 38:55.760 everything you're saying is right um they are the the core devs and all of these people 38:55.760 --> 38:59.980 within bitcoin are moving in these directions by enabling op codes with the great script 38:59.980 --> 39:05.380 restoration that they're calling but you don't really even need that because you have blockchains 39:05.380 --> 39:10.920 that are already scalable like solana uh with like project zoos where you can just wrap btc 39:11.500 --> 39:17.720 and and have btc in solana uh enjoy the architecture of a scalable blockchain so 39:18.720 --> 39:26.200 it's um so yeah we we are in a place where anything can happen i honestly wasn't expecting this 39:26.200 --> 39:33.940 that they would be so overt in in in doing what they did a couple days ago but it is happening and um 39:34.600 --> 39:41.440 so raff let me let me ask you this um if if btc you know if the initial plan was to make it 39:41.440 --> 39:48.380 as you claimed it docile or you know friendly to the traditional system so that it wasn't a 39:48.380 --> 39:54.600 immediate threat to things like mastercard and visa etc and now it's viewed as the store of 39:54.600 --> 40:00.660 gold or at least this is the way that trad fi is marketing it do you think that they would back 40:00.660 --> 40:07.000 something like op cat do you think they'll back these op codes or do you think they will be um 40:07.000 --> 40:11.480 or do you think they'll be against it because then it goes against what their current branding 40:11.480 --> 40:17.620 is of bitcoin and therefore then maybe takes away from uh you know it takes away from the 40:17.620 --> 40:22.000 bitcoin etf and then flows to some of the other etfs because it comes much more 40:22.000 --> 40:27.100 similar to something like an ethereum and a and a salana not obviously the same thing but 40:27.100 --> 40:34.480 from a a marketing standpoint to the average individual um you know that would be taking 40:34.480 --> 40:38.940 away from the digital gold aspect and having it as something more similar to a smart contract 40:38.940 --> 40:44.380 like platform uh you know has some downstream effects i think they already know what bitcoin 40:44.380 --> 40:49.360 is capable of because if you study project hamilton from the boston fed which is the 40:49.360 --> 40:58.540 cbdc for um for the for the commercial market uh that was actually uh it was one of the core devs 40:58.540 --> 41:05.840 that was hired to spearhead this initiative so core devs were involved in creating the cbdc for 41:05.840 --> 41:11.680 the boston fed project hamilton his name escapes me right now but um the name of the dev 41:11.680 --> 41:16.920 that was spearheading this effort so they're they're not unfamiliar with what scalable 41:16.920 --> 41:22.380 bitcoins capable of they're just being very smart in how they deploy to the world so what 41:22.380 --> 41:28.460 project hamilton does is is that it gives you programmable bitcoin without proof of work 41:29.040 --> 41:34.960 but it's uh it's uh it's the architecture of of bitcoin utx so it gives you it's the same 41:34.960 --> 41:42.680 architecture as bitcoin scalable programmable microtransactions um where your money is programmed 41:42.680 --> 41:48.000 so oh we don't like your political view well we can program that you know you you don't have any of 41:48.000 --> 41:54.300 these tokens left you know in your wallet so that idea is out there um the powers that 41:54.300 --> 41:59.540 shouldn't be already embracing they already understand these technologies very well um this 41:59.540 --> 42:11.760 is a game now of of how to um this is a game of information guys it really comes down to us as 42:12.680 --> 42:19.160 people who are bitcoin and crypto natives to educate ourselves on what it was truly at satoshi gave us 42:19.880 --> 42:26.280 so really this it's just a you know regardless of what they're planning or what they accept or 42:26.280 --> 42:33.420 don't accept the bottom line here guys is is that they wanted to make us forget what satoshi 42:33.420 --> 42:39.920 gave us that was the real like focal point here is to to put them for us to forget 42:40.460 --> 42:45.380 what bitcoin is truly capable of that bitcoin is a turn complete machine that bitcoin allows 42:45.380 --> 42:50.800 us to do microtransactions that bitcoin is a supercomputer that we have the option to store 42:50.800 --> 42:56.600 data on chain if that's what we want to for any reason something that i'm not even solana can do 42:56.600 --> 43:03.100 so it's remembering going back really studying what satoshi gave us and what i've come to 43:03.100 --> 43:08.060 realize and learn is is that what satoshi gave us is you know humbly speaking is more 43:08.060 --> 43:12.520 powerful than anything that we have in the crypto space right now floating i know that 43:12.520 --> 43:17.960 sounds wild to a lot of people but in spite of it being the first it is the most badass technology 43:17.960 --> 43:25.280 like team satoshi really really like they were at another level just the fact that the UTXO 43:25.280 --> 43:30.360 model is just something that people have finally started to really embrace and it was due to this 43:30.360 --> 43:35.140 hack whatever you want to call ordinals where we're finally able to teach people what 43:35.140 --> 43:42.220 what the UTXO model and how it allows for scaling to be horizontal in parallel like any big tech 43:42.220 --> 43:49.780 company that we don't have to share on a global state like ethereum that idea itself is very new 43:49.780 --> 43:55.560 to computer science still that idea still is still is almost like a renegade idea that had to be 43:56.480 --> 44:04.060 people have had to learn by being disobedient to the to the main narrative if you embrace 44:04.060 --> 44:08.740 this idea and you learn the fullness of bitcoin you have to be someone that was willing to go out 44:08.740 --> 44:13.880 and work in our Antarctica the forbidden place while everyone else was in you know wall street 44:14.380 --> 44:18.140 you have to be that type of person that person that thinks for themselves that person that is 44:18.140 --> 44:26.260 that doesn't take what other people say um uh as as gospel but really questions the the 44:26.260 --> 44:32.860 predominant narrative um and you see the fruit that that bears in crypto because now the leading 44:32.860 --> 44:38.780 the most some of the devs that are most like revered in the entire space were people who actually 44:38.780 --> 44:44.480 took the plunge and went to learn what satoshi gave us it's like zhao we lu that now like you know 44:44.480 --> 44:49.580 is in btc and he's like the dude that everybody looks up to regarding bitcoin turn completeness 44:49.580 --> 44:56.880 i had him on my show alongside the who was the reference person a super test net and super 44:56.880 --> 45:02.040 test net said on my show that his inspiration comes from zhao we lu and zhao we lu explained how 45:02.040 --> 45:08.200 how like what satoshi gave us is like a jet fighter and what they took away from bitcoin in the form 45:08.200 --> 45:14.620 of btc it became almost like a like a wagon you know in comparison to the jet fighter that that 45:14.620 --> 45:20.960 that satoshi gave us um you have someone like dean little who was a big part of a jupiter swap 45:20.960 --> 45:28.360 on solana who is now one of the leading devs if not the leading dev of zeus which is zbtc 45:28.920 --> 45:34.860 on solana create what they were he was able to do is that he took he turned 45:35.600 --> 45:44.920 solana into a btc into a bitcoin node into a bitcoin spv node where like that in itself is the most 45:44.920 --> 45:50.940 badass second layer for btc that you could ever fathom because you have a fully robust 45:50.940 --> 45:55.960 blockchain that scales like solana giving bitcoin the superpowers that bitcoin should have had 45:56.640 --> 46:03.400 so that is that is something very commendable but where does dean come from also bsv so it's 46:03.400 --> 46:10.080 almost like the best thing anyone can do in crypto if you really in my opinion if you really want 46:10.080 --> 46:16.000 to be ahead of your of the competition ahead of your peers you have to go and really study 46:16.000 --> 46:21.700 what satoshi gave us like really go back and study the code study the you know every the 46:21.700 --> 46:26.320 architecture satoshi gave us and that's what's going to give you an edge um in any network in 46:26.320 --> 46:33.900 crypto as we're seeing in solana and btc with the examples i just gave you so um did i answer your 46:33.900 --> 46:39.080 question yeah totally one thing i actually i think that you've kind of pointed out here too is like 46:39.860 --> 46:45.300 um and this is i would actually have a different opinion where you're like the core devs could 46:45.300 --> 46:52.600 never kind of admit that the the big blockers were right or the big blockers is the was the only 46:52.600 --> 46:58.640 path forward with bitcoin i actually think that and i've seen it a million times in crypto and 46:58.640 --> 47:04.060 all over the world really it's not it's not a crypto thing people can absolutely be hypocrites 47:04.060 --> 47:11.880 absolutely and it can still people will just just human nature like they'll be able to flush 47:11.880 --> 47:18.580 it under the rug that that they fought against something you know tooth and nail and literally 47:18.580 --> 47:24.600 ruin people's careers and drove them out of bitcoin in order to push this small blocker narrative 47:24.600 --> 47:31.080 and then go completely opposite go big big block and people will just fucking whoosh it away it's 47:31.080 --> 47:35.980 like they'll be able to i'm just saying they'll be able to do that and there won't be these 47:35.980 --> 47:41.020 massive repercussions in my view i feel like they'll be able to do that and people we mad 47:41.020 --> 47:46.140 who know the history like you or me or whoever and make me feel slighted and call them hypocrites and 47:46.140 --> 47:51.540 be like this bullshit but in the end the majority of the world would just fucking wash it away like 47:51.540 --> 47:56.240 oh well this is the way we're going now you know what i mean i just that just it just feels like 47:56.240 --> 48:00.680 that will happen like they won't be called they'll be called out a little bit but it won't 48:00.680 --> 48:05.660 be like a massive shift if you know what i'm saying yeah i mean and and to go back to jake's 48:05.660 --> 48:11.180 question like in order for him to do that um well i mean black rock already signaled that 48:11.180 --> 48:17.640 the 21 limit is is a question that could change right the 21 million cap on btc can change they 48:17.640 --> 48:24.240 already said that on their promo video um black rock runs four out of the five biggest mining 48:24.240 --> 48:32.560 operations in btc so no matter what they do they have to do it in a way that is um 48:32.560 --> 48:40.760 um that is organized and and that's not it does not enter into any conflict with their 48:41.440 --> 48:50.780 with their existing portfolios what we can expect and which is reasonable is for there to be 48:51.680 --> 49:01.640 rivals in the market with a lot of money that will like to be the black swan in all of this 49:01.640 --> 49:08.300 that's very plausible it could happen um there's a lot of money to be made there 49:09.800 --> 49:17.340 could it happen i don't know how entrenched is the cabal within crypto to to propose an 49:17.340 --> 49:23.320 actual opposition to btc i don't know i don't know how i mean you know i mean the network 49:23.320 --> 49:29.740 affects a bitcoin it's like no no blockchain comes even nearly close to the kind of the 49:30.380 --> 49:36.780 mind space awareness you know the secondary one is maybe like dogecoin you know i mean like i'm 49:36.780 --> 49:42.400 ethereum most people have no idea what ethereum is like most real normies right don't have any 49:42.400 --> 49:46.520 clue about you know these other blockchains like it's bitcoin and then there's nothing 49:46.520 --> 49:51.120 you know what i mean for most people's mind space that's almost impossible to overcome 49:51.120 --> 49:56.260 you know from an awareness perspective you know what i'm saying so regardless of the tech 49:56.260 --> 50:02.240 we know too most people don't give a crap about the tech right um it's all just kind of like attention 50:02.240 --> 50:10.400 games um yeah i don't know just what about what about this what about um you know bitcoin at 50:10.400 --> 50:17.260 its core is a tool to fight financial oppression and after all these years regardless of number go 50:17.260 --> 50:23.740 up or semantics of who was right who was wrong and um kind of where we are today 50:24.500 --> 50:30.760 um as a tool of financial oppression is the world better off today with bitcoin stable coins the 50:30.760 --> 50:36.820 industry existing than it's ever been before or how do you feel we are in terms of a global fight 50:36.820 --> 50:44.820 of financial financial oppression we're definitely better off i i think that 50:47.400 --> 50:55.860 what we have to realize is that btc and the stable coins that run the market um you can see them as 50:55.860 --> 51:04.100 cushions for uh eventual real disruptive technology technology cushions for real 51:04.100 --> 51:09.600 disruptive technology to land so in a sense the scyop whether it come by way of btc 51:10.080 --> 51:17.960 actually scaling or now that this idea of a cryptocurrency is something that is that is 51:17.960 --> 51:23.780 accepted by the world this opens up the the the opportunity for others to come in and and be 51:23.780 --> 51:34.780 disruptive so did i answer your question yeah and just kind of you know i mean i think that we've 51:34.780 --> 51:38.600 just made so much progress and it's easy to get bogged down in the weeds within the industry 51:38.600 --> 51:44.040 of like not everything's perfect but we've made so much progress we've made like infinite progress to 51:44.040 --> 51:51.700 get here where we are today and we you know we've it wasn't guaranteed that we would be here today so 51:51.700 --> 51:56.280 however we got here today is the most important thing whether they were playing 40 chess or not 51:56.280 --> 52:01.980 and they foresaw that they would eventually need big blocks or if we just got lucky and we ended 52:01.980 --> 52:05.520 up in the position that we are today and we are going to kind of merge to big blocks 52:05.520 --> 52:09.800 the only thing that actually matters in reality is that we did get here and then we have the 52:09.800 --> 52:15.340 opportunity to make another move to go forward whether that brings more financial security to 52:15.340 --> 52:19.900 the world or not we'll have to see but we actually did get here which kind of seems like the most 52:19.900 --> 52:25.520 important thing of all time and i just think that you know it's really easy to kind of get 52:25.520 --> 52:29.880 distracted with all these different communities everyone kind of having their own self-interest 52:30.420 --> 52:34.060 trying to pump their own tokens and everything else but a world without bitcoin 52:34.060 --> 52:41.060 even if it's flawed in today's design is like a hundred x better improvement than a world without 52:41.060 --> 52:46.200 bitcoin and so i think it's just super important that we got here yeah i agree i agree um 52:47.660 --> 52:57.460 and so which brings me back to like that which is always there for us which is privacy 52:58.020 --> 53:04.260 you know it's it's it's regardless of what happens out in the external world of bitcoin and 53:05.000 --> 53:10.700 and these transparent ledgers that are competing in the open market the fact that we have privacy coins 53:11.640 --> 53:20.200 that alone gives me a lot of peace of mind knowing that we we have these technologies 53:20.920 --> 53:28.700 to be able to survive in any worst case scenario so that makes me very happy 53:30.540 --> 53:37.680 and granted we still can do a lot more there's a project for example called crypto kit radio 53:38.520 --> 53:41.820 i think it was crypto kit radio i'll send you guys a link in a little bit 53:42.440 --> 53:47.400 where they were sending bitcoin in 2014 2013 through ham radio 53:48.040 --> 53:54.500 yeah that was incredible and and something that i think in europe people could be using right now 53:57.020 --> 54:04.320 so yes we i i agree with you that in terms of market adoption i'm happy we got here 54:05.460 --> 54:10.480 however i'm one of those guys that want to remind people that there's a lot more to bitcoin 54:11.020 --> 54:16.360 that we should not forget we should study like this this aspect of being able to send bitcoin 54:16.360 --> 54:23.420 through ham radio that cannot happen in btc right now because btc doesn't have an architecture for 54:23.420 --> 54:30.480 spv for a simplified payment verification that is robust or well defined for people to be able to 54:30.480 --> 54:35.300 send micro transactions via ham radio that's that's not that's not possible in btc but you 54:35.300 --> 54:39.860 you can do it on other implementations of bitcoin and it gives me hope that if they 54:39.860 --> 54:44.140 do scale bitcoin and they allow for micro transactions again then we'll be able to 54:44.140 --> 54:51.520 have a more redundant bitcoin that doesn't rely just on the internet one question and this is kind 54:51.520 --> 54:57.320 of a thought exercise i've had with not only bitcoiners but especially when i go to like a 54:57.320 --> 55:03.160 litecoin conference and we're talking you know like the last litecoin summit i was at and they're 55:03.160 --> 55:08.140 trying to like get adoption and stuff and i'm like guys just lean into like payments just be 55:08.140 --> 55:13.100 you know a payment layer get on board basically what btc was trying to do in 2012 and 13 55:13.100 --> 55:18.420 which is you get microsoft to accept litecoin and you you get your local store to accept litecoin and 55:18.420 --> 55:24.820 just but they kept focusing on like number go up technology and i'm like it just feels like and 55:24.820 --> 55:31.820 in the same way i'll roll it back into privacy coins like privacy coins would you be happy if 55:31.820 --> 55:39.620 if manero or dash or whatever you're using it as a privacy layer just stayed flat and became 55:39.620 --> 55:46.560 like widely accepted or does it does it always have to be based on you know number go up like how 55:46.560 --> 55:50.920 do you look at that from like an adoption curve does there always have to be a number go up 55:50.920 --> 55:57.440 aspect to these things for them to get widespread adoption first and foremost the people who we 55:57.440 --> 56:02.900 should have been going after as the primary base of users were people who needed these 56:02.900 --> 56:08.200 technologies the most like i said already people who need these technologies in their 56:08.200 --> 56:15.320 day to day life and and it's not just the person who needs to buy you know drugs on silk road no 56:15.320 --> 56:23.280 i'm talking about the the person who's selling tacos in the corner on some mexican street that 56:23.280 --> 56:29.060 person who's unbanked instead of walking on the water of cash that puts himself vulnerable to 56:29.060 --> 56:35.480 any criminal if you were to be able to exchange sats you know or monero i think that's 56:35.480 --> 56:41.460 that's a better uh that that is a solution to that pain point that a lot of people that live in 56:41.460 --> 56:49.120 the world that are unbanked have so no necessarily we don't see that's not even my i personally don't 56:49.120 --> 56:54.240 care if number grow up or doesn't go up in regards to adoption because i agree with you 56:54.240 --> 56:58.520 hundred percent adoption is the most important thing for example my buddies and i two of 56:58.520 --> 57:04.280 my friends and i we onboarded over 70 businesses in austin texas to bitcoin in 2012 2013 57:05.480 --> 57:10.460 so over 70 businesses in downtown austin texas were taking bitcoin as payment 57:12.080 --> 57:20.280 you know so it's it's like i'm totally with you um we we need these technologies to be 57:20.280 --> 57:26.740 adopted by the people because again otherwise you get very uh flaky uh user base you get like 57:26.740 --> 57:32.780 d gens who really are there but not really a base of people who actually need the technology 57:32.780 --> 57:39.460 or you get um the crapshoot of like who you know how much infusion of institutional capital 57:39.460 --> 57:47.340 will be thrown into bitcoin or crypto and and then at that point in time how much can you do 57:48.360 --> 57:54.760 um for the protocol once these giants own the majority share of the protocol and that's 57:54.760 --> 58:00.020 kind of like where we're at because if this is this is a big a discussion that some people 58:00.020 --> 58:03.500 having on the back end i'm gonna share with you guys which is this 58:05.880 --> 58:11.680 btc has no choice but to scale we all agree that with that btc has no choice but to scale 58:11.680 --> 58:18.340 even the bitcoin core devs like i've said they're already getting ready to roll out 19 op codes 58:18.900 --> 58:24.100 they peter todd out of all people are expanding the the size of the op return 58:25.900 --> 58:30.900 okay but there's an urgency to scale guys it's not like they can just sit around and just 58:32.500 --> 58:37.720 allow another four years to pass they should have scaled btc in my opinion 58:38.500 --> 58:42.600 two years ago three years ago when ordinals came out that's when all of this should have really 58:42.600 --> 58:49.240 have rolled out um and i think that they're that now that the bull market is coming to its end 58:49.240 --> 58:54.700 because we all we all understand ta to some degree we understand that this bull market 58:55.520 --> 59:01.480 will eventually turn into a bear market um sometime by the end of this year next year 59:04.960 --> 59:12.580 then they then come a bear market and come a next having if you haven't scaled by then 59:14.440 --> 59:23.980 a second layer won't suffice won't meet the the demand of the miners um so what are the miners 59:23.980 --> 59:30.040 going to do well sure you can say well the the block can you know the block reward can recalibrate 59:30.040 --> 59:38.560 and yes but what about all this infrastructure in mining where does that go and remember 59:38.560 --> 59:44.920 there are scalable bitcoin options out there that are also shaw 256 that are ready to receive these 59:44.920 --> 59:52.340 miners that are non-stop working on creating use cases to embrace this mining architecture so 59:53.160 --> 59:59.540 the what's going to save bitcoin overall it's going to be bitcoin itself and and and and so 01:00:00.800 --> 01:00:06.620 i think the core devs are late um look at the how much pushback we're getting right now from 01:00:06.620 --> 01:00:12.960 a lot of small blockers a lot of people in btc um there's a lot of pushback happening to bitcoin 01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:19.580 core right now i don't think that's going to stop i think that's going to just augment in volume 01:00:20.260 --> 01:00:26.500 in noise and and i honestly think cores is late to the game i think they're late to scaling bitcoin 01:00:26.500 --> 01:00:33.680 and remember also that this is uh this is moving more and more out of their hands because players 01:00:33.680 --> 01:00:41.840 like sailor a black rock uh governments like the u.s government are now owning this protocol 01:00:41.840 --> 01:00:50.000 more and more each day and so and these people are not necessarily you know as smart as native 01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:56.140 bitcoiners so how much will they you know what what is it that they will actually 01:00:57.440 --> 01:01:02.540 allow to scale in the future and that's a big question it's like you have to do it now before 01:01:02.540 --> 01:01:11.260 the network gets out of your hands um and and that's um it gets very political and i think it's 01:01:11.260 --> 01:01:16.660 it's a huge mess guys it is a huge mess mostly you know why it's like such a huge huge mess 01:01:17.260 --> 01:01:24.860 because bitcoin development became um political in its nature it sees and i hate to say this 01:01:24.860 --> 01:01:31.680 out to the world but i'm sorry guys but it it it stopped being um decentralized as people would 01:01:31.680 --> 01:01:37.880 want to tell you because um the user activated soft forks were easily to civil attack as i already 01:01:37.880 --> 01:01:44.740 explained and because ultimately the core devs have veto power and having that veto power puts 01:01:44.740 --> 01:01:50.540 them in the position of power of control over the network and that's why this move from peter 01:01:50.540 --> 01:01:59.020 todd which received no bureaucratic backlash from from their inner circle is so it's something 01:01:59.020 --> 01:02:04.400 that everybody jumps at because you have a lot of propositions that have been giving in in bitcoin 01:02:04.400 --> 01:02:11.860 history that have had a lot of bureaucratic push like um uh bit 300 bit 301 in recent times that's 01:02:11.860 --> 01:02:17.920 paul storks or more recently op cat op cat has had um has had to deal with with some bureaucratic 01:02:17.920 --> 01:02:23.500 push and and we've and so it's um it's very telling yeah it's very yeah so it's it's almost 01:02:23.500 --> 01:02:33.540 like i honestly think uh btc uh is out of time for scaling and i think that that's why and i think 01:02:33.540 --> 01:02:38.400 they've realized that they're out of time and a lot of it comes down to like what i mentioned that in 01:02:38.400 --> 01:02:45.660 in germany is 200 000 to mine one bitcoin worth 90 000 right now so the economic pressure's coming 01:02:45.660 --> 01:02:49.880 how long are the miners going to put up with that before they move on to something else or 01:02:49.880 --> 01:02:55.860 the price of bitcoin comes down one of the two again people it's well i mean and at the same 01:02:55.860 --> 01:03:01.840 time it's like what if you know my goal in my life would be dude like the world needs to like 01:03:02.960 --> 01:03:10.180 um rug the those who want to enslave humanity financially and it's almost at the point where 01:03:10.180 --> 01:03:15.640 now bitcoin's at the mercy of those who have forever rugged humanity financially and guess 01:03:15.640 --> 01:03:22.420 what black rock can easily do they can rug bitcoin financially they could do that why not they can 01:03:22.420 --> 01:03:29.580 rug the entire crypto space and then what you're left with project hamilton you know written by 01:03:29.580 --> 01:03:34.620 the core devs you know like that's what you have left you know and so it's uh it's so it's uh 01:03:34.620 --> 01:03:40.100 this is what's what's mind boggling to me is is that the bitcoin op codes and the bitcoin 01:03:40.100 --> 01:03:49.040 superpowers that they took away from btc you find them in project hamilton so when you talk about 01:03:49.040 --> 01:03:54.480 hypocrisy i mean that right there is like that to me is fucking evil dude so you use bitcoin 01:03:54.480 --> 01:04:01.240 superpowers you take out you take you take away the bitcoin superpowers from the people but you 01:04:01.240 --> 01:04:11.900 give them to the cp dc from the boston fed like yeah what's going on and so um yeah so you know if 01:04:11.900 --> 01:04:18.120 you really want to stay on the sidelines of all this bs privacy coins monero is the way to go 01:04:18.120 --> 01:04:25.440 because it's just a peaceful place where where people are creating you know economies that scale 01:04:26.080 --> 01:04:33.200 in the open market that are free from this coercion and um and this you know politicking 01:04:33.760 --> 01:04:40.140 so yeah it's it's it is what it is guys i mean i it's it would see the thing is is that right now 01:04:40.660 --> 01:04:48.420 we don't we don't know what to expect because we we know that the core devs have lived under 01:04:48.420 --> 01:04:54.620 many different pressures um one of the pressures that they have had to live under was the pressure 01:04:54.620 --> 01:05:00.840 of the constant threats from craig right for example that was a pressure that affected a lot of their 01:05:00.840 --> 01:05:05.800 decisions in the past year in the past couple years um now they have other pressures you know 01:05:06.360 --> 01:05:11.380 you got larry thinking the mix how are you gonna answer to his desires and needs so 01:05:12.960 --> 01:05:16.860 yeah it's gonna be a battle we're gonna see how it rolls out man it's gonna be fun over the next 01:05:16.860 --> 01:05:22.100 year or two to see how this this uh this shakes out but at the core you know we know we always 01:05:22.100 --> 01:05:26.400 can have freedom of money it's just and we just get to choose it right if we want to choose it we can 01:05:26.400 --> 01:05:34.280 have it um whether or not it's gonna be bitcoin it btc itself or something else um it they can't 01:05:34.280 --> 01:05:39.640 stop it from happening if we want it to happen but jake maybe want to uh appreciate your time 01:05:39.640 --> 01:05:46.780 thank you yeah man so it's always great chatting with you hearing the full philosophical side of 01:05:46.780 --> 01:05:52.220 the debate you know that's tend to have been lost over the last few years in the crypto industry 01:05:52.220 --> 01:05:58.760 whereas things have moved more towards you know financial lingo and attention games but it's you 01:05:58.760 --> 01:06:05.220 know it's really encouraging to see that there still is this ideological debate that happens on 01:06:05.220 --> 01:06:10.940 bitcoin because it shows that you know there's still real believers here who are uh who believe 01:06:10.940 --> 01:06:16.100 in the technology more than about you know number go up which you know regardless of 01:06:16.100 --> 01:06:21.380 what side of the fence you live live on or believe these are the type of conversations that need to 01:06:21.380 --> 01:06:28.700 be held to ensure that all options have been explored and that the overall crypto community 01:06:28.700 --> 01:06:34.060 is aware of what's going on so do you always appreciate your time and also just your 01:06:34.060 --> 01:06:40.340 authenticity on it i have alpha for everyone watching and listening okay so we already know 01:06:41.060 --> 01:06:47.680 that the future of bitcoin is one that aims to scale bitcoin as much as possible by enabling 01:06:47.680 --> 01:06:55.380 more capacities on chain within btc itself that is not argued anymore we understand that bitcoin 01:06:55.380 --> 01:07:00.500 has too incomplete capabilities on chain that's not that's not a point of contention that all 01:07:00.500 --> 01:07:04.340 the core devs we all they all agree on this we all agree on this the whole bitcoin universe 01:07:04.340 --> 01:07:09.500 agrees on this if you want to edge in this market and this is the this is the killer alpha 01:07:09.500 --> 01:07:16.800 here guys if you want an edge in this market to know where the puck is going or it could possibly go 01:07:17.460 --> 01:07:25.460 you got to go and study scalable bitcoin you got to study scalable bitcoin see it as a test net 01:07:25.460 --> 01:07:30.920 as a sandbox where all of these op codes have already been enabled go over there and look 01:07:30.920 --> 01:07:36.380 at what they're working on look at what they've discovered about bitcoin because 01:07:37.020 --> 01:07:42.780 believe it or not that is exactly where the fountain of inspiration is coming for btc 01:07:44.880 --> 01:07:51.800 bam the alpha has been said crypto vigilante always a great time raf your beast appreciate 01:07:51.800 --> 01:07:58.680 everyone for joining us later today we are doing a live stream with luke right who's a big like 01:07:58.680 --> 01:08:03.000 coin and bell's coin advocate speaking of utx so so we'll be diving into the world of ai 01:08:03.720 --> 01:08:08.180 and uh we'll be and then thursday we're doing our afternoon show we're actually 01:08:08.180 --> 01:08:14.740 going to be moving the morning show to 10 am pacific time moving forward as we do focus a 01:08:14.740 --> 01:08:20.700 little bit more on agent hustle and the ai world but we'll still be encouraging and 01:08:20.700 --> 01:08:25.580 having these awesome debates like we do with rap so until then everyone enjoy your 01:08:25.580 --> 01:08:31.040 wednesday we'll be back later tonight at 5 p.m pacific stay safe out there and have a good 01:08:31.440 --> 01:08:37.300 now we are dealing with a possible world war some will say we are already in a world war 01:08:37.300 --> 01:08:43.500 my condolences and prayers go out to everyone suffering under tyranny it really sucks i'm really 01:08:43.500 --> 01:08:48.840 sorry but it seems as if people are starting to wake up regarding crypto more and more each day 01:08:48.840 --> 01:08:53.960 and so it's in the description right here to read where we give our secret sauce and what 01:08:53.960 --> 01:08:58.520 we teach our subscribers because things are just that bad you know everyone needs this 01:08:58.520 --> 01:09:03.800 information people need to know about sound cryptocurrencies that are actually private by 01:09:03.800 --> 01:09:06.860 default and to know how to properly use crypto