Well, to the Delling pod with me James Delling pole and I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest
But before we meet her, let's have a word from one of our sponsors
You may have noticed that gold has been doing pretty well recently
In the last year
I think it's increased in value in sterling terms by around 50%
And if you'd bought gold when I first started recommending it on that on adverts like this
You would have certainly more than doubled your money now a lot of you are probably thinking is it too late?
Have I missed the boat? Well, I can't definitively answer that question
Nobody can but if I had to guess I would say gold has got some way to go
And yeah, sure there's going to be corrections, but you really ought to be owning
Physical gold for lots and lots of not paper gold obviously you should be owning physical gold
Now there were two ways of owning gold either you can actually own it
Keep it in a vault or in your own home
There are risks obviously with keeping it in your own home, you know, what if burb does come whatever?
The problem with keeping it in a vault is that you then get paid a storage fee
but there was another way of owning physical gold and
Actually getting paid interest on it unusually and that is for the company that I've
Recommended before and I use them myself. They're called
Monetary metals
Monetary metals lets you earn a yield on your gold paid in gold right now
You can earn up to 4% annual yield paid in physical gold ounces not dollars or pounds instead of just storing gold and paying
Vault fees your gold actually earns more gold over time
Monetary metals connects gold owners with real productive businesses like refiners or jewelers that lease the gold
That's how they can pay interest by the way
So so they lease the gold and they pay yields back in gold
This is a way to compound your wealth in ounces of gold
There are no storage or insurance fees charged while your metal is earning yield
You can open an account with 10 ounces of gold and start earning yield right away
You stay in control deploy how much of your gold you want into lease opportunities in today's inflationary environment
Saving in paper currency means losing purchasing power earning in gold means growing your real wealth
Go to the link in the description below or go to
monetary that's M O N E T A R Y
hyphen metals comm forward slash deling pole forward slash to learn more about how to
Participate and start earning a return on honest money again with monetary metals
Welcome last to the deling pod
Cynthia Chung
I've been trying to get you for quite a while
finally
I've got you and
The first thing I want to ask you is I mean you work with Matt Eric, don't you mean you're you write pieces together and
How do you guys
You're so prolific
You're you do these deep dives into all sorts of subjects like
Rosicrucianism
free masonry
the Knights Templar and
So on and you do these long involved deep dives. How do you have the time?
I mean for me, I feel like I'm I'm pretty blessed to be able to
afford to work at home with for now anyway the the sub-stack situation but
For me, it's it's actually kind of slow going and and I don't feel like my output could be as as large as
a as it could be
Definitely being married to to Matt Eric
We have a lot of fruitful discussions and it it's very you know, it really helps with the creative
Flow by being able to bounce ideas off of another person on a regular basis for sure
That's funny Cynthia. I had no idea you were actually married. I you don't make it clear
It's not like yeah, my what my husband Matt
I thought you were just kind of collaborative partners
So do you are you Canadian?
Yeah, yeah, I was born in Canada. My my mom was born in Hong Kong
But my dad is a French Canadian
Right now. I wanted to ask you that. I mean is your mom a tiger mom?
You mean like personality wise no, I don't mean that I mean one of those mums that the Chinese
Children are famous for having where you kind of get up at sort of five for your first ballet class
And then you go and learn how to fly a helicopter and then you go and
Breed koi or something or yeah, and then you then you have then you have advanced maths
Did you did you have one of those?
Well, I mean it is typical that I was put into extra curricular math
kuman math, which is a popular
Canada, I don't know about in the UK
Yeah, well, I I I didn't mind it. I think that it's it's not bad. I never had anything so strict
As like maybe some other the competition is very high, especially if you live in South Korea or China
They're very competitive with their exam systems, but yeah, I did learn how to play classical piano as well and
I did go into ballet and gymnastics when I was young, but
Mostly white white girls in my class for
gymnastics and ballet
But you know, it's it's good because you're you're feeling things out too when you're young of like what what are you interested in?
You know, I also played soccer
And various other sports, so it was just good to have a lot of these kinds of activities
I think I got a bit more of it as the the firstborn child of my family. So I was pretty lucky. I
Do envy you
Even if it were forced that you you've now you're now in adulthood
And you've got this skill of being able to play the piano really well, which must be great
Yeah, and I I want to eventually learn how to play the cello
because I think the stringed instruments are the most beautiful but
Yeah, there's an appreciation for for music on I guess another level when you can when you can play the instrument
for sure
Yeah, yeah
Um, and obviously then you're gonna gonna have eventually have an orchestra in your in your home
You're gonna teach my hat to play
What's he gonna do play the timpani or something?
He'll be he'll be the creative dancer
That improv dancer by the way
When you see Matt, which you probably be quite soon tell him I haven't forgotten that he's going to do a podcast with me on
How the casarians were actually good is because that's gonna be quite popular
I think with the it's quite a that's quite a tasty line to take with my audience
Who presumably a lot of them will think that the casarian mafia the reason that the world is as it is
Can I ask you a big question because you you you do all this you you've looked into Freemason really you you wrote an essay, which I
I
Didn't didn't finish a very involved essay on the
connections between the Scottish right Freemasons and the mafia and this
organization in
15th century
Seville I think
I mean this is all this is all just like meat and drink to me, but
Does it get you anywhere? I will what I mean is can you have you worked out yet?
Who it is that runs the world and what their evil master plan is?
Or do you think it's lots of different groups with different agendas? What where are you on this?
And I mean for the audience to be aware that wasn't one article that was a series so like you you actually
Talked about a lot already in and what you just did in that summary
And and yeah, people can can read that on my sub-stack through a glass darkly by Cynthia Chung, but I
Think that it does there is definitely I think a
Babylonian origin and Egyptian origin and not to say that everything in
Egypt was bad, I think that you know in the ancient times
It was very common for there to be the the mystery schools
What we would maybe call today secret societies and it was common to have cults, right?
Like it wasn't just like how they use the term cult isn't how we think of a cult today were you know
You dress all the same maybe and and you know
You drink the the Kool-Aid sort of thing, right?
but
It was common back then to have like the cult of Apollo or the cult of Marduk in Babylon the cult of Horus in
Egypt, which I really
Found that there is a connection especially between those three nodes in
Athens ancient Athens ancient Babylon and ancient Egypt
That seemed to have been on a certain level corresponding with each other
So these these cults which were temples they had often times priestesses
I know that the cult of Apollo definitely had the priestesses
I'm not so familiar with exactly how the cult of Horus was set up
The cult of Marduk for instance when Cyrus the great
Went into Babylon and you know took it over and this was going to be the beginning of the Persian Empire
the story goes that the gates were open to him in Babylon by the Marduk priesthood and
That the the king and his court and all of this they were slaughtered by
Cyrus the great the Jewish captives were freed, but the Marduk priesthood were allowed to continue
without like any kind of
Interference like they didn't miss a beat basically in their day-to-day
Organization so that's very telling and I think that you know when you were looking at the Roman emperors as well
They're like when Octavius became the emperor of the Roman Empire
There seems to have also been a certain
dealings that he had with like certain civil cults
so it seems that
There was I'm not saying that every great leader or a very prominent leader
Had to be like totally bot but there seems to have been
A situation where any great leader would have to have a certain working relationship with powerful cults centers
And again, not that they were all
terrible and bad, but I
Would say the Marduk priesthood was was was looks pretty bad to me
Is that right? You
Sorry
They look bad to you presumably this is because they practice human sacrifice. I
Mean everything that is coming out of the Babylonian culture. I mean yes human sacrifice
Although human sacrifice was also
Like it was happening elsewhere as well. It was is I think pretty common for a while
I think that that was one of the interventions of Jesus right was to kind of intervene on
Not to say that there wasn't
prohibitions in the Old Testament, but
There was really I think a shift at that point of the sacrifices need to stop altogether even animal sacrifices
But I think that everything that has come out of the Babylonian culture, you know
I've heard about the debt forgiveness and all of that but in terms of
The cultural aspects the the religious practices and so forth. It just doesn't seem
Very good
ultimately and
you know, I
Have to do more more work into how the the Jewish captives even right?
were influenced with the
being captives in Babylon for as long as they were and and how much did that
Possibly shift and and have a reinterpretation of
Their history and and and their identity in in in things. It's it's very complicated
But that is like for me
The origin and that's why Freemasonry there is a lot of clear emphasis on the Egyptian rights
I still have to do more work on this, but definitely, you know, Garibaldi
You know Napoleon
Mazzini
Alistair Crowley
They're all very much involved in like the
Memphis Ms. Ram Egyptian rights
Which I don't I still don't know enough to talk about and I had to stop that series at a certain point and
Actually start this Rosicrucian series, which is starting to give me a better
Handle on how to eventually complete the the Mafia Brotherhood
Series, but yeah, it's a lot to chew on and because you threw out the Mafia in there
I'll say for people who want a little bit of a teaser
That it looks like the origins of the Mafia Brotherhood started with some of the Catholic
Milton groupings that have it seems
All of their origins come from the Benedictine order
So like the Templars the Knights of Malta the
Cistercians and and so forth all have their origins with the Benedictine
Order and the Mafia Brotherhood seems to have had its origins within that that construct
Spain as well had
militant orders
That were again had their source with the the Benedictines
Well, that's interesting in itself, isn't it because Benedictine monks are they normally associated with being baddies I
You know, I'm coming at a lot of this research without previous
I
Guess you could say baggage in a sense like I didn't have a solid, you know
Opinions or or I guess you could say prejudices. I'm kind of like following threads and
because I
Feel that my generation, especially that was one classical education kind of really
Stopped and I feel that I'm constantly going into a subject with a great deal of ignorance
But you know Nicholas of Cusa has the term learned ignorance the more, you know, the more you you know, you don't know
but
From what I've looked at from my research the Benedictines which seems to be the oldest
Order has very bad
Yes
origins
to it and
Again, I can't say too much from it right now other than like for instance
Matz revenge of the mystery cult
book series
He talks about the Apollo connection with Saint Benedict and his sister
Scholastica, it's very odd that they were buried together in a urn, which was like they were very close to each other
I don't even know if they were twins, but they were very close and
They died very close to each other as well and they were buried together in an urn that was actually
A church that had been built on top of an Apollo
Temple site and I find that not to be a coincidence and
Also a very big
Indication that the Benedict's were not the best was I don't know if you're familiar
You probably are with like Tiberias's
Capri
Escapades and the fact that there was a lot of
You know human sacrifice going on there as well Tiberias was
One of the like the second or the third Roman Emperor
I'm not fully remembering the the order but he was there still at the very beginning of the Roman Empire and
He eventually started to just vacation most of the time in Capri, which became a huge cult center
if not already and
this
Center was given to the the Benedict's later on I forgot the name of the person who
Who like gave that so there's all of these very disturbing connections
With you know these groupings that are playing off of each other into
Certain I guess you could say
forms of
Psyops that we you can see that there's a lot of continuation
In the world that we live in today, even though it's it's not exactly the same and I think that there is
A clear attempt to kind of re usher in that that old age of mystery cults
and I think that with the
with our kind of
zeitgeist being
ever more connected to
Social media type things but also things like Netflix or
Prime video or whatever, you know, you're watching
Like Netflix is international now. So there are every country has like a certain kind of formula
That kind of has a tinge of their culture with their language and their quirks
But there's a this like repeated formula that's now being done
throughout like the worlds on certain kind of key
formulaic
Experiences that they want people to go through
via Netflix
Which is kind of homogenizing people in some ways
Towards and nudging them in certain directions
And I feel that this is very much akin to how things were done in the the olden days in terms of like the mystery cult
Ways of controlling how the masses are viewing the reality that they're living in. I don't know if that sounded crazy
That sounded real well like everything you said really really really interesting. You are a fund of information
Tell me about the the things that you're seeing on on Netflix the sort of the patterns which are being repeated across in the different languages
But how are they trying to condition us?
I mean the obvious one for me is that the number of lesbian relationships in is
Netflix is off the scale and there was I thought there was also a there was also a kind of crime drama thing where the police
I don't really call it a police thing. So I couldn't work out. There was a man or a woman
Was was was transgender
Is that the sort of thing where you thinking about the stuff? Oh
That's part of it
Definitely, and I do think that it's it's getting a little bit weird, you know when when people of
the more I guess liberal woke
perspective
How they're viewing themselves as becoming
emancipated
empowered
politically
active is all revolving around sexuality and
Like sexuality is the most and like having sex
It's just like the most important thing in the world and I find it
very
disappointing and and like
Honestly, just like the lowest, you know level of of of being I
there's a show
Industry and it's about like, you know people in in the finance market in the UK and
It has like
7.5 IMDb rating and and so I'm like I'll look at it just to see like how are they talking about the
Finance situation in the UK and like these young people who are getting in the field and it was like so crazy
centralized around
Sex like and like really crazy, you know types of of things
You know SNM is becoming like really normal now, but
There wasn't any actual
Intellectual like there wasn't any intelligence around actually talking about the finances and I feel that you know
When you make sexuality the most important thing to me, that's like you're kind of accepting
being controlled by pleasure clean stimulus, which is basically akin to being treated like, you know an animal and
You know horari for instance this was famous for his speech at
The World Economic Forum where he was saying, you know, they're going to be able to have these algorithms on
The internet, right? So like if you are watching whatever a podcast or a movie
It's going to be able to measure your heart. It's going to be able to measure how your eyes are
moving and maybe like how much you're sweating or whatever and
So it's going to know your thoughts
Things and I felt like to be like the most basically he was talking about a somewhat more, you know
Fancy polygraph which are by the way notorious for not being reliable
But he was talking about things as if you were like an animal like how could you possibly know
Like how someone is thinking about things on a higher philosophical plane by just how their eyes are moving and how fast
You're basically just measuring, you know
Excitement anger, you know very basic emotions and it's clear that horari
identifies at that lower level
and I think that
That's how I view these these kinds of shows that are focused on that
It's to train you to think at the lower level. It's like game theory, too, right? It trains you to accept
limited parameters in an artificial scenario so that you you think that you have to react with this pleasure
Punishment incentives in order to get ahead which makes you actually more easily controlled
Um, so that is how I view that whole construct and I mean I could care less honestly about
Someone's sexuality and I don't even want to have arguments over that. I'm just I'm of the viewpoint
It's it's not something to celebrate or you know, think you somehow accomplished something by being like whatever on the
sexuality scale
But there are other things on Netflix that are very
Like oriented towards
Popularizing witchcraft like satanic
rituals
Horror films that are are are getting into
Like sort of initiation programs
I was I was listening to um someone who
Has even though they're a believer in um, a lot of this like occult mystical stuff that they they were talking about
They were useful because they they they talk about it somewhat from an academic standpoint bringing up books and all that
But they had a watch party on this movie called hereditary
Which was uh done not that long ago. You know, one of these I think a 24 films and a 24 is just taking over on this like
higher level occult social engineering stuff
but um, they were talking, uh
about this this film
and they
Acknowledged themselves and and some of these people are practitioners, right of like black magic
So they're either thalamites or golden dawn, you know priests
And but they're like very normal nerdy people which was
Interesting
But they were seeing themselves that they were shocked at how many people after watching hereditary
Which was about a specific demon called paimon went on to social media platforms
Looking up how to be able to become a practitioner of magic so that you could conjure
demonic spirits
Yeah, that would that would figure so was this this film was a was a was a drama
Was it yeah, I didn't watch it I did like um a quick kind of overview because I I refuse to like
Sit through a whole movie like this because it's these
these things also like they
No one I think is immune to being um influenced a little bit even on your subconscious when you when you're constantly watching these things
so I only look at summaries now when it it looks like something that is
pretty influential in a negative way for social
engineering and um
Uh, it it basically is um a movie that is talking about
This paimon devil that somehow you know if there's a satanic cult and it's being passed down through a bloodline
But there are three sacrifices within this family of the elder woman the the mother and then her child
And but it's to ultimately unleash this paimon demon
He's one of the four kings of hell
according to the
the john d allister crowley
demonology lore right
And I mean it goes before john d
But the end is to unleash the antichrist like paimon is sort of like an antichrist kind of character. I guess
um that is also supposed to be able to talk to
Like to uh to I guess unleash all the other demons
You know, it's like a kind of rift in hell sort of concept
And it was very interesting to listen to these people talk who believe that they can they can conjure spirits
And they say oh paimon isn't really like this when I talk to him
Um, but that what was very interesting is that they would have preferred they said if the movie had just stayed
Psychological and that you didn't know whether everything was happening
In the main character's head or not
And that the satanic cult wasn't really real and they also don't like that these occult groups are always
uh
Portrait as satanic, which is also funny, but um, they would have preferred it to stay
Logical, but the last scene really shows that it was real and the director also later said in interviews. No, this was all real
and they didn't like that and uh, especially the the golden dawn priest guy his his name is erin leech
Who is in this like watch party on the youtube page esoterica is uh, where I was watching this
And he said I would have preferred, uh, if that last scene just wasn't there and
for me the movie is
Uh, you know ends before that last scene because I reject that last scene
And it was so bizarre that these people didn't
Realize like they think that allister crawley for instance isn't an a satanic person
They themselves rejected
That ending that it was
About an antichrist, you know storyline
So that was a huge tangent, uh
Netflix, there's other things about Netflix too that, uh, I could talk about the the movie nas feratu was also like
Holy crap that is
Um, I'll just say something really quick, uh on that
That is about necrophilia on and that was like a mainstream ish movie, right?
Nos feratu with johnny depp's uh daughter rose depp or something like that and, um
Super disturbing she was there's willem defoe even makes a reference to her being a priestess of isis
in this nos feratu movie and, um, if
People are not aware the frankfort school, um adorno
I'm the adora adorno from the frankfort school had said
That necrophilia was going to be the last stage of like, you know
What they wanted to to bring about as a the last, um
I forgot now is actually in that article that you you said that you were also interested in talking about the the false flag
Um paper on a william sergeant and mk ultra and all that I can find it
Very quickly, um because I have it already open
So he wrote yeah that there are to achieve maximum suggestibility
The adora adorno wrote in the philosophy of modern music that it would come in four steps to achieve maximum suggestibility
The first one was depersonalization
The loss of connection to one's own body
To have frenia which he defined as the indifference of the sick individual towards the external
Three catatonia which he wrote as a similar behavior is familiar in patients who have been overwhelmed by shock
And for necrophilia to which adorno wrote universal necrophilia is the last
perversity of style
And yeah, I felt that nos feratu was definitely, um
Uh for that
um
And this guy is the one who did like the north men, which is another thing with the whole viking stuff being brought in to
Uh to also get into this sort of weirdness will them defose like in all of this guys all of these guys
Uh movies at robert eckerton. I think his name is
Anyway, that was a long rant. Sorry. No. No, this is all interesting
I hadn't thought I think I saw the north men things that is that what the one film in iceland
Where they're always the beating hell out of each other with yeah
Uh
Yeah, it was like a very stylized film and there wasn't like too much like with nicole kimmon, right? Like there wasn't anything like too
overtly weird in that but if you look at uh, I think its name is robert eckerton something very similar to that
He's he's clearly a satanist
On the high level and uh will them defose like in all of his movies and with the north men
The thing that I guess is of particular interest to me is the the initiation process for the kid
First of all the the this idea of like what is shamanism bjork, you know, is the is a shaman in the the movie
and this return to
The end scene, you know where they're fighting with the fire all around and everything
I think that part of that is again to have us return and there's like a scene too, right?
Where the guy's wearing like a deer head or whatever with the fire
I loved it. Um, it's to get
Right you went hunting yesterday, but I was hunting foxes. That's different. Ah, okay
um, but yeah, that's it's to have us return to a very I think, um
uh
primitive, um
You know way of being which
Uh, I think again just ties us to
um raw emotion
and
um, I think that
Basically, it's a chaos factor. Um, and they they want that chaos factor. They want to get us out of
what, um, you know, we've been taught the last few decades in terms of
You know under the kennedy era like we thought we were civilized people. We thought that
We had progress and we had we were going to just have a more positive
Future always like there's just going advancements were going to be for the benefit of humankind
And now increasingly I would say the majority of people
Don't believe in that and partially because like these advancements the the scientific achievements have been largely now
Controlled by the the gatekeepers of the military industrial complex, right? So anyone who does make a very large
um
discovery within universities is
The funding the grants are already like very difficult for you to get
As a researcher, but then so
Oftentimes it's the military industrial complex that offers you funding but you have to kind of sign away your
Control over the project and they can I see you out or they can you know, they can do whatever they want with the project
They could they can kill the project
um, so
You know, I think that
This idea of like the
Not believing in the ability to achieve, you know positive developments. There's like this this huge
Wave, I think of people wanting to return to
You know a more
natural
Way of living but like from the standpoint of like living in the woods, you know living in caves living
um on a really basic level and
I think that that is again to try to get people
To be more easily controlled, you know these ideas of of living in
communes and stuff
it's it's going to be
easier I think to
To control these kinds of situations. They've been encouraging communes since like the 1800s
And if you look at the people who started
You know the communes and the kind of weird stuff like there's a lot of historical
Documentation on the weird things that were happening in the communes. They were they were
human experiment, you know societal
Experimentations
Ascona is probably the one of the more popular ones, but that was more for like, you know, bourgeoisie
Uh, you know more rich type people
Where was this gonna?
Ascona, uh, it's it's in switzerland and each it seems to be one of the the biggest, uh hubs for what would later start
The the counterculture movement
That was connected with the Esselin Institute kind of offshoot
um, and like so you had very interestingly in Ascona, um
I'm forgetting now the name of the the so they had um
Like dance sections. They had psychologists in Ascona. They had
writers like uh, d.h. Lawrence, but um very interestingly the psychologists
They were both Freud's disciples. Otto Gross was the first Freud disciple and he
um
You know had a very radical ideas of of how to
basically destroy
the patriarch patriarchal christian
Civilizational matrix and replace it more with like a kind of matriarchical back of fin type view
And Carl Jung who became the second disciple of Freud was recruited into Ascona but when Otto Gross became his patient
um
And Otto Gross seems to have like not that Carl Jung didn't have his problems
But before then but that Otto Gross like totally
Got him recruited into this Ascona thing which also started this weird sun worshiping and and and like arian
Uh component there was a movie
Made on that weird story between Carl Jung and Otto Gross. Um
a dangerous method with a
Kieran Knightley and uh Viggo Mordensen and I forgot the other actor
Global warming is a massive con. There was no evidence whatsoever
That man-made climate change is a problem that is going to kill us that we need to amend our lifestyle
In order to deal with it. It's a non-existent problem. But how do you explain this stuff to your normie friends?
Well, I've just brought out the revised edition of my 2012 classic book
Watermelons which captures the story of how
Some really nasty people decided to invent the global warming scare in order to
Fleece you to take away your freedoms to take away your land
It's a shocking story. I wrote it as I say in the well 2011 actually
The first edition came out and it's a snapshot of a particular era the era when
The people behind the chime climate change scan got caught red-handed
Tinkering with the data
Torturing till it screamed in a scandal that I helped christen
Climategate so I give you the background to to the skull jugglery that went on in in these seats of learning where
These supposed experts were informing us. We've got to act now
I rumbled their their scan. I then asked the question. Okay, if it is a scan
Who's doing this and and why?
It's a good story
I I've kept the the original book pretty much as is but I've written two
New chapters one at the beginning and one at the end
Explaining how it's even worse than we thought
I think it's a I think it still stands up. I think it's it's a good read
Obviously I'm biased, but I'd recommend it you can buy it from
jamesdellingpole.co.uk
forward slash shop
But you're probably fine that might just go get to my website and look for it jamesdellingpole.co.uk
And I hope it helps keep you informed and gives you the material you need to bring around all those
People who are still persuaded that oh
It's a disaster. We must amend our ways and appease the gods appease mother god every day. It's a scam
Got him recruited into this a skona thing which also started this weird sun worshiping and and and and like arian
Uh component. There was a movie
made on that weird story between carly young and autogross. Um
a dangerous method with uh
Kieran nightly and uh vigo morton mortensen and I forgot the other actor
Right
Sorry, I was just distracted that it came into my head. Um
The black sun
The the the black sun is is is what's on the jesuit flag, isn't it?
Is that right?
Well, it's it's it's like not uh, I think officially called a black sun, but that is interesting
I never actually
Thought about it that way. I don't I actually don't know how many spokes the the black sun has but the jesuit has 32 spokes
um
and uh on that interesting note the smithsonian has
A jesuit sign with 16 spokes and it's a definitely
um connected with jesuit activity
um
And they also did weird stuff with the the native americans
Which I wrote a book on but
Yeah, I didn't actually think about it from that angle. That's interesting
um
I shouldn't have distracted you that because you're you were doing brilliantly on your on your
fantastic tangents anyway, Cynthia, which I've been loving
It's um
I'll tell you what talking to you
It's like going to see the conspiracy doctor, you know, you've got doctor
I've got all these
I've got all these conspiracies in my head. Can you explain them to me?
And you're pretty you're pretty good at grounding it all in in research and um, can we just take a step back for a moment because
I'll tell you where
Where I've got you in my
Five years of researching this sort of
Who runs the world?
thing
Um
I had more or less
reached the conclusion that everything
everything from
The behavior of pop stars and movie stars in in photo shoots all this sort of stuff to
the child trafficking trade and adrenochrome and the general kind of
Yeah
Ritual sacrifice among the elites
the way that we're that we
useless eaters we we go in whatever you want to call us are controlled and despised by the by the ruling elites that
And and indeed the religious
Views of the people who run the world, you know, they call themselves the brotherhood, I think among other things that all of this stuff
Can be traced back to what what we know as the Babylonian
mystery religions
but
As I understand it from you, it's not as simple as it's all down to Babylon. You're saying that there were actually
Three
Lock-eye you might say that we can connect it to so there's a polo worship in ancient Greece
there's the memphis the egyptians
and
Babylon Babylon is the is the third of this is is that right and and also
When you were talking about Horus
Marduk, was it called?
Horus Marduk and the pie
Are these all ultimately the same
root god, I mean because
I mean in in my book all these different gods that different
ancient races worshiped are essentially
For the angels rebadged given a given a kind of local name
That they're they're basically the demons that the the the angels that were flying out of heaven and united under under Lucifer
They're all the kind of these are these these are the sort of the gods that have been given free play in this world
do you
Share that view or
Um
I am of the view where I I I don't really believe in
It's like there's there's a I guess
A fine line right or like there's
Like what is real versus what is not real?
What is material reality versus like does something have to have material reality to be real and so from that standpoint?
I understand I understand that there there are things that are real that don't have like a material
uh
manifestation
That I know through my my own self right that I have a soul and I have a mind I have reason
Um, and clearly if if people share
an idea
There is a manifestation
That will occur in in certain ways
Um, but is that is that what what an integral means?
A what?
Egregor
Is that how you pronounce it egregor egregor
I don't know what that is. I think an egregor
If I'm pronouncing it right
Is a kind of a collective idea which becomes a thing
Because it is shared but but like I could have got my my my definition wrong. Anyway, it doesn't it doesn't matter for the
So to pin you down here because I've noticed this with with with
Matthew as with with with matt as well
I
get
Deconstructing some of some of his myriad podcasts that he's done and and I've listened to quite a lot of them
I get the vibe that he doesn't really believe in the reality
of
Of of gods and demons and stuff. He doesn't he doesn't that he thinks of them as ideas not not real entities
um, I
But I don't I don't want to talk about matt's view, but I want to find out what you think
Do you do you believe in in god, for example?
a god
Yes, I believe
Yes, god is definitely there. Um, I I don't have a concept of god, um as like having
Anything identifiable identifiable though in terms of like
You know, oh god was angry, you know, and so this happened like I I feel that
The how I've come to an understanding of god again, like I think that all of us are kind of
limited to this way of of of having a concept of god is that you can only know it through
What you what you have access to within your own, you know, sphere of of being
and
Over the years I've come to
believe that there is a creator that there is
An organized principle to creation
That has an intention towards ever perfect ability and that it is good and that we are born sacred
I do, you know, believe and and matt also, uh, you know believes in in in this as well
and
and that we have, uh, you know
free will and so
When there are satanic things that are occurring
Um
I don't I don't view anything that like is happening to us as a as as humans
Um in our zeitgeist and all of this as something of a as a external spiritual
uh phenomenon, but that
uh, we ourselves
have, uh
A very complex
You know, um process that we do have to go through
From ignorance to to something that is akin to wisdom
Um, there's this irony right that everyone, you know, Plato made the point that
Or socrates in a platonic writing was making the point that I don't think that anyone even like a bad dictator
Right an evil dictator. He said this in the gorgias
Has the intention to do
ill will upon themselves
And so it's an interesting concept that
The the evil has become twisted in its conceptualization
Of like what is the best now? I don't I agree with you that it is
It is very disturbing
to see
This continuation of the mystery cult schools from like the evil mystery cult schools
And how it's been able to be continued for as long as they have and why are they so
uh, like
obsessed with this
very evil conceptualization of
What they want to bring about and this
I agree. This is
It's very perplexing and it's very disturbing and there doesn't seem to be enough like good
people organizing
Against it in a more organized fashion
I'm also disappointed at how many people seem to be able to be recruited
Into this like even if you think about it from like an average person level
The fact that people are watching the stuff that they're watching on netflix
And they're just accepting it as entertainment is highly concerning and not realizing like this isn't
First of all, it was already questionable that you would want to see something like that as entertainment
Like I was disturbed when I was in my 20s when so many of my friends loved movies like saw
Which was just about like the most brutal torture
various scenes of torture and that was what you were going to see it wasn't even like
These people trying to escape from it. It's like, oh, yeah, this is like saw 11
We're kind of see some more people get tortured and uh hacked to death
Um, there's something very disappointing that people are going in that direction. I think part of it
is that there is
a psychology
In in this that when you're when you're feeling disempowered, you know, they're
The the way that we have outlets in the way that we have coping becomes dark
And most people are and unfortunately
They they follow
Whatever construct is given to them. They cannot they're not able to create the construct
But for me that doesn't mean that that is uh
That is our nature
Or that's like something we have to go through and that there aren't solutions and that there isn't a way out
Um, but it is I agree with you like it's it's very heavy hitting to look at the course of the mystery cults and
For me like at the end of the day all I can think of is it's
It's best to have the be equipped with the information so that we can recognize it and we can kind of know
the players behind it like for instance today like
What what is behind it so that?
You don't get kind of trapped into it or you don't get sucked into
Uh, a paralyzing depressive state where all you can do is like, you know
Get high and check out. Um, and
Hope that the madness
You know peaks somewhere far from where you're you're living
um
So that's the best I can do and I guess for me the problem
Yeah, with like external manifestations is
If we're going to say that we don't play a role anymore in this huge fight of external manifestations of like evil versus good spirits
It we I feel that like our whole free will at that point becomes really obsolete
um, but on that note
you know this concept of magic this concept of like
evil
conjurations or whatever there is a
a reality
to
Obsessing over something and wanting it to manifest like there there is a
a real a real component
um and um
A lot of people actually funny enough
Will hear the most disturbing things that are being said even by certain
guests on podcast shows
talking about like, um
Purgative violence, you know, like things are getting really crazy in the states for instance and
And there are people who are making the rounds who are selling themselves still as like family
Oriented they they want just like, you know, the the christian values and in society and all that and they're calling for
Purgative violence as the solution because it's either kill or be killed
and
Who's saying this with anyone I've heard of?
um
Former green berets who
Former green berets who are who are parading themselves as like financial. I mean they they are I guess like financial
um, you know financially savvy
there are a lot of yeah, there are a lot of actually
uh
People who are involved in the military
formally who are now like on a lot of podcast shows
um in in the states and in canada that are are confusing people saying that you you know, you need to man up you need to be like
um
You need to because it's true right like
The whole woke liberalism thing has turned people into what I would call like more hamster like
And obviously you want to not be a hamster in life like a suburban hamster
But you also don't want to have like grandiose delusions that you can be a rambo either
And um, and so there are a lot of like really good intention people who hear extreme phrases
And they're not able to to take it
Uh
In they make all kinds of excuses for why that wasn't even though the person literally said
It's not it isn't really like that. So
Um, I don't know how I got onto that tangent from what we were talking about before
Because I asked you and I distracted you slightly
um, I've just so the reason I was asking that question about your beliefs is not because I'm a kind of
Christian nutcase who insists that everyone else must must be exactly as I am. Um, it's more that
I
Mean I suppose there are two
Possible ways of looking at the mystery schools
and their successors the
The secret societies that run the world which all seem to be preoccupied with these signs and symbols
um, and traditions like
sacrificing children to their to their gods and stuff
um sexual sort of
aberrant
sexual behavior
Um, so they do all this stuff now. There are two ways of looking either
They do this because it's just what they do
And they get their
Some of them get their perverse kicks from it
Most of them do it just because it's required to get on and this this this becomes a form of
a form of ritual binding and and a sort of sort of an elite signifier
That they're they're following the club rules. That's one interpretation. But but it's not real. They're not
They think that they're worshiping these dark gods, but they're not really the dark gods don't exist
or
Which is my view you would go. Yeah, they do this stuff because unfortunately it works if you
Make obeisance to these dark gods the dark gods will reward you because they have been
Given this realm by god's permission
To they have a certain they have a certain freedom and and and if when humans worship them, which the elites all do
They they call it the old religion. They think that the
People like me in nutcases you will worshiping god when they they've they know who that who we should really worship
And their dark gods give them power
Now are you in category one or in category two? Are you with me or are you a more of a kind of
Rationalist might be said
I guess my question in in in what you're talking because
I believe that there's only one god
and
And so if there is only one god who is an all-perfect god any one god with a capital G
But there are lots of fallen angels so that he created these angels
And and a third of them rebelled because they didn't like it when god created man in his image
And they they then mated with humans. It says in genesis. Whatever it is genesis eight. Is it?
um
They they found the daughter the children
And they they they have sex
Yeah
In genesis that I thought that was just in the book of evil. Um, well for for me just from like a
Uh, well, I will definitely uh review that for me. Um
I guess again because there's there's philosophy in this right?
So I'm I'm a fan of like the Leibnizian approach to christian
Thinking um, and you know Leibniz was the one who had the famous debate with samuel clark on the behalf of mutin
on like how does god actually
um operate
In the universe that he created and I think that
Uh, I'm a very big fan of how Leibniz was debating, uh, the newtonian viewpoint, which I I think you know
Um, newton was also a part of of the the kind of groupings that that we're talking about in
In the culture. Yeah
massive um
so
For me, it's like if god is
The creator and he's all good and all perfect
I don't understand how something, you know, like that seton has like some kind of like a yin yang situation at that point and
also like for instance, albert pike in his um
morals of dogma
He plays on words, right? So, uh at first and I I have not read the whole thing
But on archive.org you can you can search certain words
So it allows you to skip around very very easily and he talks about god and christianity for like the beginning parts of the book
So it kind of sounds almost like he's he's christian
Kind of like how the rose accrucians were speaking too, right?
They were they were not very honest and they're very delphic with how they were speaking about god and christianity
but then you look up lucifer in the moral the book of morals and dogma and
He realized that he is of the viewpoint that that god is pretty much like a
Luciferian god, so the worshiping of apollo for instance is kind of like you could say
uh a
A prequel to uh lucifer and apollo is the sun god and is the god of prophecy
There's a there's a lot of parallels
To apollo and lucifer and if you look at a lot of the writings of these people including the rose accrucians, right?
Like the first rose accrucian manifesto is about the world reformation by order of apollo is what it's called
And then the last one is on pegasus
From mount carnaest in apollo apollo's realm
So the rose accrucians are very clear that apollo it is the order of apollo that they want to reinstall
and you know
So in my book apollo would be basically lucifer
Now that's what I was really asking you about mud marduk and and horus
Were they actually lucifer as well? Have they got anything in common with lucifer?
I would say that all three of them are
uh archetypes of lucifer and and we bring that up to in like our episode one of the
um
Hidden hand behind ufo's lifting the esoteric veil our
how we are
thinking about the the the old pantheon of gods like the greek pantheon of gods, which i'm most familiar with
compared to bablon in in in egypt, but
that um these these gods uh
Of there's many different versions as well, right the mythologies will have one god go through many different
And that's a thing too, right like people have to realize how much of the mythologies have been clearly shaped by
Writers and thinkers, right? So like escalus who was a an ancient
um tragedian in the in in athens at the time very famous
He wrote the um orestes trilogy, which was uh an intervention into the eye for an eye
um problem
In athens and was using like the the the trojan war and the curse of agamemnon with
Cassandra and and and all of this that orestes killed his father because agamemnon killed
Sacrificed his daughter effigyna
Orestes sister for for good wins on his uh journey to troi
What a bust again is very interesting
I
Yeah, I know so it's even rough
Really plummeted in my in my estimation
Hmm agamemnon has really plummeted in my estimation
Yeah
Yeah, and like for his brother for his brother's wife being stolen right men allows he sacrifices his daughter
But it's also to show like the
There is an ominous
You know thing to this whole greek involvement in the trojan war and there's clearly
criticism of the greeks
You know, basically
Really hurting themselves spiritually as a people by participating in this war which ended with them slaughtering all of the the men
enslaving the women and the children
um, so it was a a very very
criminal terrible war that was
Criticized heavily by a lot of the tragedy tragedyans like
Askelos and Sophocles, but but um
Askelos is also like reshaping the mythologies, right and like the erinis the furies
Are the creatures of apollo
And they are the ones that so orestes kills his father, but now he's cursed you are you are uh guilty of um,
You know killing your father
Uh, parasites so
They're going to chase him
Until he meets his undoing and this was like the belief, you know that the furies will get you whenever you break one of the
The cardinal rules even though again, they're not sacrificed his daughter
And and so to end this like
This eye for an eye situation where you know, you as an individual need to take it upon yourself for the
the the revenge
aspect of things
Askelos brings in the areopagus, which is the the court system and has athena
Had this
and you know
So that the erinis are not obliterated, but and they're trying to be respectful and everything
But they're saying like we don't really need you anymore
But thank you for your services
And it's interesting because askelos even writes in this trilogy that the erinis were like these, you know
Very disgusting creatures dripping and stinking and they would like
Their their base was at the apollo temples
Which I think is also kind of saying something
more uh subtle like
Because again the apollo cult was super powerful
in intelligence
Operations and you know people were giving their their money for the prophecy of the oracle
But really it was just like
uh, basically telling them your plans and then they coordinate with these nodes in babelon in egypt according to my theory
And uh, they can orchestrate
How war scenarios are going to play out?
um
Yeah, so anyway askelos shaped a lot of that mythology
There are a lot of other people who were like shaping and reshaping the mythology retooling the mythology
So it there is very much like a battle of like the storytellers
um
That's why interestingly queen elizabeth seems to have like killed all of the bards in
Because they were apparently
like
Did she
Uh, yeah, this is a new one on me
Radicalism I
About it, but she killed all the bards
Yeah
What gloria lovely lovely gloria at the virgin queen
Yeah, she was responsible for a lot of it
And I don't know like you know like the pied piper
Type concepts like because there were bad bards right or like the the pan concept
I'm not saying all the bards were bad
But there were a lot of like bad bards and they would travel from town to town and they were like spreading
Things that were not so great
um, but uh
Interesting story. I don't know enough about it. And obviously the queen elizabeth court is a
A mixture of a whole bunch of things and I can't really pinpoint exactly
Whether she was ultimately doing something good or bad, but um
It's very complex still that period of time is like a whole podcast couldn't we on on that on that period
And I think that we shouldn't skitter over it because it's because it's just too big a subject
Well, and he scratched the surface, but
Interesting about the bards so so how many
What are the records about this?
Was it was it a policy? Yeah, I think bad eradication
Um
Okay, I I know that if you searched it on the internet you will you will get something like it's it's uh
It's it's acknowledged that it happened
I mean
I was I was quite surprised to discover that in henry the eighth's reign
One of the estimates of how many people were killed
In his reign was 72,000
Which as a proportion of the population must have been quite I mean that's
Slaughter on quite a large scale, isn't it?
Yeah, I mean henry the eighth was
I think a disaster. I think that it's still
The popular conception
of him
He was a wrongan or uh despite being sort of charismatic and into jousting and hunting and stuff and um
A ladies man and he wrote green sleeves allegedly, but I think we still tend to think of him as a bit of a psycho
But but elizabeth the first I mean presumably she didn't kill that many
Oh, oh queen elizabeth killing like
Again, I I don't know exactly
You know what that it it sounds like she was introducing stability
but
Again, I haven't really looked too much into like how people were I mean they call it the golden age
So I guess it it must have been doing okay for
You know that's not necessarily the case
Anything that gets a lady like that. That's almost certainly a sile
But I'm listen. I'm conscious because I wanted to talk to you we could go anywhere
Before we go into that I just wanted to note though that can king henry the eighth was the one who began the anglican church and uh
I don't know
Well, it seems that the anglican church if you look at king louis the 14th who called himself the sun king
and was
into apollo big time and uh, he's called, you know
The sun king and his own ballet and all this but he started the gallican church
And there seems to be similarities between because you know that the the monarch becomes the head of the church, right? And
Um
So they become like equivalent
I mean already the monarch was sort of considered this way, but it's it's of even more power
And with the gallican church, which I think is very telling which seems to have a lot of linkage with the anglican church
under napoleon
He was announcing under this gallican church that he would be
uh
the the the head of
all
You know all religious institutions in in the world
I think, you know, he was even including the the jewish synagogues, you know in in this uh
View of his uh, so I think that the gallican church especially became very very clear in that orientation
in the research that i'm doing with the um the bohemian brethren, which later became the moravian brethren and and all of these
There there was the anglican church was was known for I think
You know having a very open door policy
and
sort of incorporating a lot of these these different
uh sex religious sex into it, but I feel you know
That there was a a very political
Agenda in how there was this kind of rewarping of things. I don't know what
Bees what what do you think of anglicanism?
Well, I am an anglican myself. I mean, I'm born into the church of england as as we all are if we're if we're born british
Automatically regardless of your really. Yeah, you become part of the of the parish
um, but
Look, I mean it's given us
The book of common prayer
Uh
Cramers crammers liturgy. It's given us the the king james bible, which is which is pretty good apart from it's it's the fact that it was
Commissioned by a guy. He was probably an occultist himself. I think I'm very suspicious about the kings and queens of england. I about their
their genuine
As opposed to their ostensible spiritual
Affiliations they all pretend to be christians, but i'm not sure that they actually are or were
um
but
But yeah, I I think that the catholic church
Historically is well dodgy. I think that there are
It's it's clear that it's been hijacked by the forces of darkness
And although there were sort of individual catholics who are great and good good people the church itself is is
Dodgy as
But then you look at the look at the anglican church as well all the churches have been infiltrated
I mean, I I I'm a massive fan of the orthodox, but I know that on the
satanic council whatever it is that that that there are
Along with people like popes and um
Judges and things. There's also the orthodox
bishops that the rot is everywhere
So I think there were I think um
John calvin was was was his real name was co and you know, I think there was I think the the jesuits were
Were were crypto jews crypto jews who became
You know who infiltrated the catholic church
Inevitably if you're if you're if you're satan
Your chief target is going to be the church
It would make sense. I mean he's quite clever. He's quite good at his job satan. So inevitably he's going to infiltrate
Oh, sorry
No, well, that's it. No, you asked me. Well, I mean I I I'm I'm I'm I'm quite in a way
I'm quite open-minded and in as much as I'm I'm always interested in in learning more and adjusting my position
For example, I did a I did a psalm's podcast the other day
um
with
an evangelical christian
Who absolutely convinced me for the at least for the duration of the podcast that the
Christmas was is a
Was never really a christian
Festival that it was it was just a sort of a
synchronized
pagan festival
And and so this person didn't celebrate christmas with his children at all because it was ungodly
and then
I know and he recommended this fascinating book
sort of explaining how
All catholic traditions are just basically rebadged mystery religion practices that that um
The the virgin mary is just a rebadged
A common watch goddess it is it's ashura or
Anyway, I then get
Get another another chap who's an orthodox
Orthodox priest in in america and he sends me a message
Saying well, this is all rubbish christian the christmas was a christian festival and your guy's talking nonsense. So
It's a particularly christianity is a really really big big rabbit hole
Maybe the biggest of them all and it's very very hard to get absolute handle on it when there were so many
good players
but you know
You today have have opened another kind of um tunnel in the rabbit hole
The saint benedict was a baddie. I don't know anything about saint benedict
I'm gonna look him up now and find out about it because you think about the benedict teen
The old benedict teen monasteries. I thought monks were basically good because they
They they sing psalms and and and they
You know
And now i'm thinking well hang on a second saint benedict. Maybe he was uh, you know buried on an
Apollo tomb with his
brother did you say with
His sister his twin sister
Um, yeah
Yeah, well, um, I think that you know the the the parts of the catholic, uh
um
Because obviously, you know, like i'm a fan of of saint augustine like I do like a lot of um
I mean and there was only the catholic church at the beginning, you know of of the the church history
But I do think that there were a lot of um really good
uh contributors
to um the the teachings that um
You know are still like kind of the foundation
of some of the the best lessons of uh christianity
But I think that benedict was uh, he introduced
Forms of mysticism that you know
Is were pagan mystery cult and I mean pagan for me the word pagan isn't uh
It's it's not specific enough, but like that they were the mystery cult
um practices uh that were being kind of brought in and um
Catholic mysticism is a very, you know, uh, I find
dangerous and troubling
um section
and
whenever and that's the problem too, right with like any kind of uh, I guess
religious experience
that um
if you are
And I there's a lot of uh connection with this and what they're trying to do now, right
Like so for instance the immortal key
I forgot the name of the author and it's a very hard name to pronounce
But the immortal key is a very big book right now that's being promoted. Um where
taking, you know
Whatever kind of mind-expanding drug is going to now allow you to connect directly with god
Um, and I don't think that that's a new concept. I think that that's actually a very old concept
But the question
Remains like are you really speaking to god or are you speaking to someone else?
You know or like or someone pouring certain
Is into your mind because you know with in the immortal key the way it starts out, which I I haven't um completed the book
But it was very interesting that this this woman was talking about her experience of how she was an atheist her whole life
And then when she took
I don't know if it was lsd
But I mean these things are being fine-tuned more and more
At the stage so like lsd is not specific enough, but
You need to have like
A guide right like your your therapist is your your spirit guide throughout this
um
So who is your therapist like people need to be you know really asking questions about the sort of
Experience that you're being led upon and carl young was was very much also a part of that
Like for people who don't know he was
Into the illus inion mysteries. He was into the mystery cult again ascona his connection with ascona is also
Very indicative of this
um, but also
His idea of descending into the depths
um, you know, he
envisioned that
And this is a very this is the framework now of like where they break you they break you
Down and rebuild you and if you can survive it, it's a very
Painful process, but if you can survive it you become almost godlike is the belief in this, right?
So that's what a lot of people are doing who get very power crazy the thalamites
you know the followers of allister crowley believe in a very
Pretty much the same framework that you have to like really
Break yourself down
uh survive the trials
In the depths and if you survive you become like a a demigod or a god man and his uh
His imagery of his process himself personally
Was like, you know a male body with a lion's head with the the serpent
Around it and that that statue the leon so sofeles. Sorry
I still have to read there's a a paper specifically on this
I think by richard knoll who wrote a great book on carl young and used to be
A young in if I understand correctly so an insider
Uh, but that exact statue is also on the vatican grounds
And it's very interesting because carl young
Was ultimately someone who was very critical of christianity because his viewpoint was that christianity was a jewish
Religion that was uh forced upon the german people and that that wasn't their real religion their real religion was odin
Yeah, yeah, and that that was a lot of like that's why like also this idea that like, um
You know the things that were kind of leading up to hitler
Uh, these viking movements, uh, they they believe in odin as their god, right?
Like they don't believe they there was a rejection of of jesus
And um, and you know under the nazi realm too, there wasn't really it wasn't really christian. Um, it was uh a kind of uh
german vokish mysticism that had a huge amount of its roots in this sort of
revamping and reinterpretation of even the viking history, which a lot of it isn't even like
archaeologically historically
Provable it's it's it's through the the the the storytelling which becomes real
For the people and this is their real and this is the concept of blood and soil too, right like that
Depending on where you were born in the world. You're going to have a different
God you're going to have a different connection
I don't know exactly how they view how these different gods are connecting with each other and stuff, but
There is this viewpoint that where you're born is like what you are spiritually connected to sort of thing, but anyway
young rejected
Christianity as as this but that's what's so interesting is that this was the imagery that he identified
in his transformation into a god like men
And that statue is in the vatic is also in the vatican grounds
So
Again, if people want to know more about this they can look up carl young on my through a glass starkly substack, but um
Yeah, richard null is the one who did a lot of work on this and um
Yeah, it's uh
interesting
The problem is
You you you know too much
um
But I I I sometimes sense that
You've got all this knowledge at your disposal, but you haven't found a kind of a line through it yet you're you're you're you're you're sort of
You've been in so many different directions and absorb so much information, but
You haven't found a kind of simple line. Like I mean
I've because I'm more basic than you
I found I found a line and
I pretty much know where I'm going
But I'm always open to
If an obstacle comes in my route, I'll go around it or I'm
Like you've you've given me a wild card today since benedict bad
Which is which has caused me to sort of think a little harder about my attitude towards
um
The monastic traditions I mean the benedict chain rule was you see
I could I
I could spend the rest of this podcast picking up on that that point. You see I'm I'm quite
I am quite curious that
If you're ruling out
mysticism within christianity
Aren't you taking away one of the things that makes it
Um
Exciting and real. I mean if it's just the kind of if it's just a sort of
behavioral mode
If it's just a question of yeah read your bible do good things
I mean great if you can do it, but I think some of us
like
Like signs that that
God is there with us that he's got our back. We like our miracles and things
And I have great respect for example for those monks who
You know people like simon stylitis you think he was sitting on us on a pillar for no end or perhaps even
Not a not good end, but maybe he was communing with demons
I mean is that your
Or or he was just sort of conjuring up weird stuff in his head
Which had no relation to anything you don't think these people are communicating with god
I
Don't know that person's
Story in
Simon stylitis is the one that's that lived on top of a pillar
But there's a there's a great tradition of all these ascetic monks and hermits and things who go off in in remote places
There are there are ones in in in the modern
You know people who died quite recently like like saint paesios and in the greek orthodox tradition
um
The the saints and martyrs
It sounds like you're kind of ruling them out
Well, I mean the thing too is that
in in your uh
In in like the recognition of of a certain grouping of saints and prophets
You're also ruling out like perhaps the the islamic idea of right like their prophets and and and uh so forth
And there are other like religions that have their view on people
Who could like prophecy and on all of this so
There's a like
Yeah, but I'd say that they I'd say they were talking to demons not
I mean, it's not that I don't I don't like
Sufi mystics. I'm not I'm not I'm not necessarily calling them
Bad is exactly or even in the eastern religions. I mean it was a world that the further eastern religions like
Like um the sort of the gurus and stuff
but
It's where they're getting in there
They're their inflammation
It seems to me that that that if you're saying
Which is what you seem to be saying is that that that
That monks
Who have mystical experiences that they're essentially
not really
Christian experiences
Oh, I wouldn't
Go so far as I'm saying that there was something introduced that was problematic
into christian mysticism, right, which had a certain
components that
um
You can say did open the doors to the mystery schools who were the experts I would say
in uh
mystical
Manipulations, which I think we see today as well with the whole asylum institute, you know
Root of a mystical experience
Um, and you've said yourself
I've I've I've read you about the asylum before but I can't remember what it is. Is it is it quite influential?
Oh, yeah, it's it's super influential. It's it's like it's it's kind of like the
the lighthouse for the new age movement and um, a lot of prominent
uh lecturers in in psychology and the you know, the lsd field and and like basically talking about
um your your
Uh spiritual experiences
Um through these kinds of conduits so
psychology and drugs are
Um and and a kind of idea of spirituality that not so much centered on god is uh is like what they're promoting which I
view as
very similar techniques, but like honed with modern day science
from the mystery school
Stuff and like, you know the corruptions of the catholic church. I think they're
That have been infiltrated with the bad mystery school traditions
Most definitely enter into the field of mysticism. And so I'm not trying to discount
All of mysticism. Um, I don't think I agree with you. I don't think that that is uh
Something that would be ultimately constructive and I'll say more about how I view mysticism in in a in a moment
but
As soon as you have something that is um, so personal
As a mystical experience
um
And you have what appears to be a corruption that has come into the catholic church, right?
That I think we agree upon that has ties to the mystery schools
How how are you going to begin to know?
How this has come into this
This part of of things, right? So like for instance the dominicans
Like the franciscans the dominicans and the jesuits all seem to
Have um, a certain kind of coordination as well with uh with with certain things and
There are certain things that are tied to
um
mystical practices
Um, and it's not like mystic christian mysticism didn't exist before these people
So i'm not trying to talk about the entire history
Of christian mysticism
um, but just that there have been it seems things that have gone into it that are
problematic
And how do you even begin to start?
You know differentiating it. Is it a huge problem for
The the faith um, and i'm not trying to
Float myself in a situation where i'm going to tell you what what you should
Discount and what you should not discount
But there is I think that element that obviously needs to be aware of and you say yourself that people who
Are influenced by something bad are are influenced by a
An evil influence from whatever, you know, um
The source may be
Well then this idea of a mystical experience
Which I I can at least agree with you on on this
It opens the gateway
To something good or to something bad or or possibly just confusion as well, right?
um, so
For me when when there isn't like, uh an ability I guess to fully
Uh assess and and and think about things
Um outside of just an experience
I feel that there's no way that you can possibly know
right like
Was that a good or was that a bad experience you had like we have to have
some ability to think about
And reflect upon the experience and not just be like an empty vessel where that experience comes into us
um, so
obviously
Uh
There is I I don't think that a mystical experience is is uh
To be discounted or is something that is not real
But I think that we we play a role
in
That experience as well and you have to
Be also in like the driver's seat a bit and not just
Be taken on for a ride and not ask questions about where you're headed kind of thing
Um, do you think we have time
For you to give me a a potted history of the thing that I originally
Wanted to talk to you about we we don't have to do at this time, but I was just quite intrigued by
You've you've looked into the history
of
the Tavistock
Institute
And it's I mean I was interested for example to to learn that the
The the son the eldest son of the Duke of Bedford is called the Marquis of
Tavistock, isn't he?
Um, and they live at Woban our abbey
and
Their family name is Russell
And Russell
It the Russell family is identified in by spring mire
as one of the 13 satanic bloodline families
So the russles are obviously
In in deep in this stuff and that connection with so can you just we talk about this for a bit tell me about about this this sort of
What why did the russles get into this?
this
who who who who
Who who devised the Tavistock Institute and and what was the purpose?
Oh, well that you know that is
a really hard
thing for me to I I've been trying to research this in terms of like the the the root and the origin
and
the the Russell connection is a
Is is the best in terms of of that like there is a historical account by an insider of the Tavistock history
I think his name is hv dicks and um, I can see something
On the insights I gained from reading that but it's it's it's very
much not like open in terms of
This older Tavistock history there seems to also be
um
a possibility that hitler was
um
In this I think there was another notable Nazi that definitely was directly tied to Tavistock
I think I think a
Yeah as a subject
You say you're suggesting that it's possible hitler mev
I actually know some russles
Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean and they're nice girls and I the thing is
You meet people from these families
And they don't always know that they're bloodlines
Um
Well, and that's a thing. I think that's a really important point, you know for you to make because
um, it's easy, you know for us
who
have been
You know born like a lot of people are born into families where
The family history is just it's also just like it's not known, right?
Like I don't I guess that's why like things like ancestry DNA is like it's it's uh, so popular
But is also a way for them to get your your biological information. But um
It's just it's unfortunately not practiced by I think the average family to have a history of like what your family
Was a part of and everything which which is important
Um, but even and so then when we see these families that do have that sort of legacy we sometimes I think yeah, like
Think too much about it that everything is is so
uh
Uniform as an understanding within uh those families
Which is is not necessarily the the case either
I also like to to make the point with people that
Aldous Huxley and Julian Huxley, right Julian was the older brother. They had a middle
Brother their father also was not a well-known name, right? It was their grandfather Thomas Huxley
Who was the the the great figure in the family?
They had a middle, uh, brother who hung himself on their on their grounds
Um, because the amount of family pressure, you know on the family was was so high. Um
It's not like, you know, these aren't people who who themselves like Julian was going through electroshock therapy during the london bombings
Um, Aldous Huxley was noted for saying he was happy that he lost his eyesight because he the expectations wouldn't be as heavy upon him as
They were on Julian
um, but that was you know
That's that's an exception but also shows that these are still people
At the end of the day, they're they're not just these like
hollowed out, you know shells that are kind of like robots
Uh, that have been just totally programmed to do something
And that there's all of this struggle as well because it's unnatural, right? It's unnatural
to ultimately
be tasked with
uh, these sort of mandates
um, and there is
It takes time to corrupt someone and so I think that it's very humanizing to see like for instance that Julian did have to go through electroshock therapy
um
To get to a point where he's now creating UNESCO and he's like the co-founder of transhumanism with uh
Uh, tyaldes chaldein and and this sort of stuff, but it doesn't just happen
It's not even enough for you to be going through that as a as a child
um
And and on that note too with like the blank the blank slate right william sargent who did a lot of work for the tavastock institute
basically doing
experimentations on soldiers after world war one with a ptsd
The the idea was always that they want the ideal was that they wanted a blank slate
they wanted to be able to write anew on someone and um, they found that they they couldn't do that
So even though there's undoubtedly a lot of success that they've they've they have achieved with mk ultra tavastock
Um processes
It's very comforting to realize that even william sargent has to acknowledge in his book
That if someone has a strong conviction in something
Whether it be true or not, but if you have a strong conviction in something you have a strong foundation
You cannot just break that with a hammer or a sledgehammer and just rewrite upon it
And william sergeant said with those people
You basically have to like
Kill them, you know, it's like he said the psychiatric asylums or the the hangman's news are for those people
um, so
I think that that is oddly comforting because it shows that we do have um
A lot of ability to resist. Yeah, we can be killed instead of instead of locked up
Well, they the the fact that they have to resort to that right is a form of weakness and obviously
You can't do that with everybody
Ultimately the goal is they need the masses to worship them and accept them
That's the whole idea too of bringing upon it a new roman empire type construct
Which is what I see is what they're trying to do
A a more revised
Roman empire with the mystery cults that were associated
With the roman empire, but you need the masses to love it
You need the masses to want it, you know, the gladiator games all that and to corrupt the masses
But they need they need them to worship them
so
There is always I feel that
Optimism because at the end of the day, I still believe that people are born sacred
I believe that there is all of this energy that is constantly put to trying to get people to
Go in a certain line that is clearly very unnatural
And there's like so much energy like think about
Everything that's going on with the entertainment industry and all that so like in one way it's very
Disappointing to see people corrupted in like hollywood and stuff like that
But when you look at the masses and how much work that they're trying to do to get people to think a certain way
That is a sort of proofing of itself how unnatural
It is for us and how we would so easily
Switch to something more natural if all of a sudden we were allowed, you know, it's like we're going to now have um
Uh this kind of positive outlook and we're going to have this constructive outlook and cooperation and so far so forth
Like people will immediately go for that
Greece is a good example, right where where Greece has been like totally gutted economically, but for like a short period of time
There was this like pushback from Greece
um that maybe they could stand up um and become economically sovereign and um
You know, there were a lot of greek people that we we knew who were like very
Which is sad, right when you think about like this how much of civilization western civilization comes from
From the greek influence in a positive way, uh from like solenoid Athens and so forth, but
um
They became like totally different
Like overnight when they saw that there was a certain kind of leadership
That was like a david versus goliath type, you know feeling but like, you know that they were they were feeling very
positive and optimistic
Yeah, yeah, and so
They were totally disempowered for like
decades and then
instantly
Lit like the greek people can be a unified people a strong people a sovereign people it
It was there the whole time
So I think that that is a a really positive thing to keep in mind, you know, like during covid right before the truckers protest
Trudeau had said, um
You know, and it was very scary
It was very isolating when I would go out to the grocery store and stuff
it seemed like everybody was on board with this and
And they were masked up and they were gonna get the third vaccine or whatever
I mean to be fair. I think it was only a second vaccine that had come out maybe or the first one
I think it was the first one and uh trudeau was like saying like anyone who is not vaccinated is a misogynist and a racist
And I was ready to be sent to a concentration camp at that point and like you had heard stories
I'm pretty sure that they had empty like hotel
type prisons house for people that lock on the outside of the core
Um that they were prepared to send people to who didn't go along with this and obviously it was a minority
Who had not been vaccinated?
And then the trucker protest happened like really shortly
After that and I was so relieved because I was really thinking like, oh my god
Did everyone just go along with this and like goodbye to
To any conception of uh, of uh, you know, uh citizen rights
and
It was interesting because even though the majority have been vaccinated
There were clearly so many people who have been vaccinated who were also along the streets cheering on these truckers who were going across the entire country
Uh to protest peacefully in Ottawa
um
and that was uh, so
Uh powerful and and I was so surprised because I never had high expectations for canadians to do any
anything of a of an organized intelligent pushback
and um, it was so smart that the message was still very loving and is family oriented and
You know, there were setbacks in terms of like what exactly should as with a lot of these movements
Unfortunately, like if if you have like a seat at the table, what do you want to see?
At least there was this clear, uh pushback of like, you know, we should have the right to decide our
medical issues and and especially on the vaccination of the children
so
When that happened it again lit a light for turning people
Instantly and there was this this idea of uh, of a of a unity in a very positive way
And it wasn't to try to like, you know hunt down the people who were for the vaccines or anything
It was a very uh positive thing. So
For me, I I see these as like very big indicators and I'm sure like
Most people who are watching this they identified themselves
As being in connection with something that is good within themselves
I think that a lot of people majority people they have that and it it can be lit in a good way
In a positive peaceful way
Um, it can be lit
in a really powerful
constructive
Loving beautiful
way
um, but they need to keep us isolated in our that's why things are becoming more and more divisive as well and
there's there's increasingly
an inability for
For for dialogue on on people who even see things differently, right? Because obviously
No one's ever going to see everything on the same page. But if we're
In in agreement that it is possible to live in a world where
You know, it's not a zero-sum game that someone has to suffer
Someone's got to get the short end of the stick. This is a myth
It's a lie that we've been told in order to have us fight each other
Instead of realizing, you know, who is pulling the strings and I know a lot of people
They want me to say like the list of the names like who are the baddies and for me it's more
Um, the the methods that are being used because the names can change. There are new families that are brought in
There are new, you know, high-level
like kizinger types who are brought in
Um, that don't even have like a whole, you know, a family legacy
um
That I know of anyway for kizinger
but
It's more than methodology, but the fact too that we have such an extremely
uh
Power a huge power for the good
And that most people really are on this side and and even though I understand that there's this idea that maybe satan rules the world
I believe that, you know, especially if we have
Yes, but if we also believe
But if we also believe that there is a grouping of people
And there's no set number here, right?
Who can who accept the teachings of god and they reject?
satan's rule
to me
There is an odd optimism in that that you still have people who are
Uh, truly following um the teachings of god and rejecting satan's rule
And so for me that doesn't mean that that has to be a disempowered grouping and anyone who follows the teachings of the true teachings of god
should have
uh, a certain um
From my understanding they should have actually
more power because it is god's
creation after all it's it's I mean god's gonna win so I don't I'm I'm in agreement with you there
but that doesn't mean we can't
Indulge ourselves
with it with the with the gory details of
Institutes like the tavern store because yeah, I mean, I know I agree. I agree with what you say, but it is kind
I I think that if we're if we're going to defeat the enemy
One of the their key weaknesses is
When we expose their secrets
because they they operate secrecy and stealth
And if you show their workings
They are left exposed
That it's like when the tide goes out and people can see who's not wearing any swimming trunks suddenly
um that
The I mean
If you asked
Ordinary people let's say I'm not going to call them normies for this actually normies. Yeah
If you ask most normies
about
Tavis dog
If you told them there was is that in there was an institution
which had been
Set up what in the early 20th century
With a view to brainwashing mass brainwashing the populace
in all manner of ways including later on with the Beatles
um
They'd go well
Hello
If if this if this place really existed or if it served the function you described
There would have been a load of articles in the Daily Mail about it a load of inside
Investigations which would have explained to me and bbc panorama would have covered it and and because it's such a good story
How would the media not have told us about this thing because people don't realize that the media is part of the deception
so
We need
I think it'd be very helpful if you could if you could outline
The Tavis dog and how it how it came about and and what it what it does
Yeah, so as you were bringing up that
There is a a link to the the Russell family and uh, you know the the Tavis dog town
Um interestingly too if you look at the Tavis dog symbol
Which I don't know if you do images in in your podcast
But someone can just look up Tavis dog Institute on the internet
And you get the coat of arms of like the sheep. That's kind of like with the skin opened and and hanging
Fabian
Fabian it's very similar to the it's very
Similar because the fabian has the wolf wearing sheep's clothing
Which I think later on they got rid of and I don't know how many people even are aware of that
original logo, which is
very telling
But the the sheep
Being hung like that is also the symbol for the order of the golden fleece
um
Where you know, uh, the especially the the spanish
Catholic monarchs were the grand masters of this order for a long time
I think there were other countries involved as well
But I don't I don't know too much of the like the details of all of the grand masters, but all to say
That that is also a connection to that the the Habsburg Catholic kind of entity. So very interesting
I I just recently found that out doing the the rose accrucian
research, um
So the Tavis dog Institute, um from it's
More instituting and clinical history. I rely on HV Dix's accounts of the history
So it's only from an insider that I've gotten like the most information
And what's very interesting is that at first it was selling itself as a clinic to treat, you know, um
People and uh including uh soldiers with like their issues, but they actually had a purge
Uh
Within maybe I think less than 10 years of its founding
And it was called operation phoenix
Which is very interesting because it is totally tied to
Vietnam's operation phoenix people who haven't
Um, I'm sure most people have not seen our our film called operation phoenix
They can see that for free on my my substack through a glass darkly
Which goes over a lot of um what i'm about to talk about with the tavis to stock link to the vietnam
uh war and the kind of experiments they were doing on people in vietnam, but
They interestingly called it an operation phoenix because the phoenix is known to burn its nest
And you know with this idea of like it's a purgative cleanse
And I do feel that there are a lot of people
Who are calling for a purgative form of cleansing right now
You know, it's so corrupt just burn it all down and remember vietnam was burned the village to save the village kind of insanity
um
and so
It's very interesting that tap and opera the phoenix symbol also is has rose accrucian
Um significance and all that that's too much for me to go over like all right now
but again people can see my substack for more on this so
Very interesting that the tabasoc says this about itself because there's an internal
Disagreement within tabasoc as to what route they were ultimately going to go in
And um the route that they they they went along with under the guidance of john ralings reese who wasn't the the original head
Was to become directly in partnership with the british military
So at a very early stage after operation phoenix they become
jointly aligned with the british military in their conceptualization of psychiatry
Which was a societal form
Of psychiatry so it became less about the individual and more about how to
perform
Psychological therapy on the masses
hence also
You could say social engineering is it's not to say social engineering didn't uh
Exist before this but in the form that we know it today
It's tabasoc has a lot to do
with that and uh john ralings reese would also
Be heavily involved with the world health organization and this concept of mental hygiene
So a lot of the the health practices
So basically tabasoc did what later on the rand institute would also do very much in the united states, which was
They went into a whole bunch of these institutions and they reorganized them and part of uh
The one of the the the the prominent
Therapist of tabasoc
I'm forgetting his name now, but uh group think
And group therapy also is being conceptualized through tabasoc like orwell
Was very creative in his 1984, but he wasn't actually making stuff up
Like these things were actually being discussed and he was linked to british intelligence
He actually worked as a
Burmese policeman and was already involved in like shock therapy
In burma and burma malaya were like the
The prototypes before what happened to vietnam war and and the vietnam war the
The green berets who were involved in this this the cia under land stale special forces
um
They were even saying that malaya
And and burma were the models that they were later going to do in vietnam with their operation phoenix, which was
An attempt to wipe the slate clean on a societal level
And rebuild a new identity a new cultural matrix
um with that and
One of the ideas is you need to shock
You need to shock the people and scramble
Things enough so that there is increased suggestibility and an ability to
To introduce radically different concepts
And so again people should keep in mind
The the sort of stuff that you're even watching for entertainment or this idea of returning to a certain kind of chaotic
Killer be killed
thing this is
all part of the phase
to eventually have
um a peak in chaos
so that
after that chaos
They're able to to re-institute a different kind of matrix that they want to see
So it's a bit like trauma
That you inflict trauma on the victim
To make them susceptible to whatever stuff you want to pour into their heads
Yeah, so Naomi Klein wrote the shot doctrine on on that
so
I can see that
It started off initially
started off as uh
Well, the cover story was
We are treating victims of shell shocks. They're already you've got
You've got a ready readily available market of
Numerous
Shell-shocked victims from the First World War. So their brains have been frozen
Yeah, and also people like
People forget that there was a lot of positivity in the 1800s because of
There was a huge increase in standard of living through
You know technological industrial developments that happened in the 1800s and HG Wells complains
That the worst thing that has happened is that the pop the world population has something like triphalters because the standard of living was really
getting better the the
wealth of the average person
in
Countries who were developing economically were noticeably improving and optimism. So
My hypothesis as well as Matthews is that the First World War was orchestrated to artificially
get countries to fight each other to disrupt this process of
You know things going in a certain direction, which was for
positive
You know
Things for the people economic sovereignty and and political sovereignty
And so after the First World War, there wasn't just the shock for the soldiers
There was the shock for the general populace of like
What just happened, you know, like it was one of the highest body counts
And I mean the us also went through a civil war like not that long ago
But for the world to go through this shared trauma or a lot of the world went through a shared trauma experience
And even if you were on the field
You were affected right as the wife of a soldier as a child of a soldier and just even how
society like London, you know, like you had like the the the the siren
alarms, right for for the the potential
bombs so
That was a and William Sargent talks about that right that
People had to still go to work every day
Not knowing if bombs were going to drop and you would even pass by sometimes like a building that had been bombed
There might be live people in the in the building
um, and like
William Sargent found that
For the normal person
The the coping mechanism was ironically
Your survival instinct and so that's like how they've kind of
Warped something that obviously you should have a survival instinct like it's not bad to have a survival instinct
but it can be it can be
used
Against you to actually be like a frog in in slowly boiling water kind of scenario
and a lot of the post apocalyptic films that we have
Is basically, you know very much pumping this idea of like you need to be a survivor
You need to be a survivor and be prepared for whatever comes your way and just survive
But there is also this problem of your
You're supposed to just accept it, right? Like don't go through the process of like oh my god. Why is this happening?
How could this be because you need to just focus on surviving?
and
Paradox paradoxically that will also get you to sort of accept the parameters and readjust to a radically different
Situation which is part of the shock
therapy
Right. Um, so i'm not you shouldn't have a survival instinct, but you should also never shut off
Why is this happening and you know and not be kind of led?
Where everyone is kind of being herded to in a masterful way through game theory type
uh, you know nudging
but um
Yeah, so that that was part of the the brilliance of this shared shock trauma
And and so that was also the justification for the tavastok saying that everybody now needs therapy after the first world war
Right, okay, and but all along presumably
The people who conceived it
Whatever the individual psychic psychiatrists thought the people who conceived it knew it was for
societal
brainwashing mass brainwashing mass formation
Yeah, I think that um
I can't say for certain that every person at the origin of the tavastok clinic had that mandate, right?
But I would I would say that even I forgot now the name of the other leader before john ralings reese
But he was a follower of carl young and carl young was actually involved in the
He was in discussions with carl young as to how to go about setting up the the the mission and the mandate for the institute
um, so I don't think he was a great person either, but um, I don't think it was necessarily
With the viewpoint from the very beginning. We're going to work with the british military and we're going to combine
a psychological
Therapy on with the military. I think that it's normal for a lot of these these kinds of
Institutes where you you have people who who don't have great ideas to begin with but they're not necessarily
wanting to do
Uh
You know certain types of things
And then there's just like gang counter gang operations as well like that. I feel that the the original uh
Person involved with the tavastok, which again, I'm sorry. I forgot his name because I didn't I do so many different things
And it's I don't have a great memory for names
but um
I I don't think he was a great person either. It's just um
you know
The they use this uh the fabian approach right the fabian approach is um that you have to be in constant combat mode
Even with your colleagues
And it's the survival of the fittest the ran institute was like that too
They had all types of internal disagreements
Within and the concept is it's the survival of the fittest and whoever wins out is
Uh, it they are clearly they were meant to rule the institute and dictate it
So it's not to say that anyone in there was a saint
But there are like disagreements and there there is there is this um
approach to um
That that is pretty brutal as like to how you you treat people working
in these these institutes which on some level is definitely um
A religious
Like idea as well. Like you have to be kind of fanatical
to put yourself
Through something like that. It's
There's also clearly a striving for personal power
But there is definitely an element of fanaticism
So how did the term stop institute
shape
culture
How did it brainwash the masses?
Um
I think that um a lot of the the sort of
um
Opinions the the way that cultural norms were shaped
um
These were things that were being um brought in through the the education through all of the the the different groupings
Even I found out that they they own this company called
uni
I forgot the the full name of it. It was uni something but it was for all like household products
And I thought that that was also really disturbing that they at taba stock was actually
In control of a lot of household products that were being sold
Which kind of explains why you hear weird things like johnson johnson baby powder. They found like talk talk
Uh like a toxic
Component you mean unilever
Yeah, unilever. Yeah taba stock is uh, unilever is a huge. Yeah a huge corporation. I know
um, I know
Yeah, there's that's it explains why there's all of these problematic ingredients
In these products because it's not enough to say all these companies were taking a shortcut to save money
Like there's even now like products that are being found where there's undeclared
um
Ingredients in the products like they're they're not even being declared and in canada and the united states. It's a real
Shit show. Uh, we don't have the same kind of protections as european products do even but um
It explains why there was a lot of these problematic things and but it's an infiltration on like a very
high level and then the question is
How is that allowed to happen so quickly and taba stock is what?
You know influenced but would become mk ultra in the united states, but um, it was I think a different kind of uh,
you know
strategy for internal warfare
that people
um
To stay don't fully realize and and like ran
I think is probably also modeling itself off of a a sort of taba stock
model and again ran ended up being in control of like
Uh, the educational system in the states and and the the housing situation in the states
The ran is connected to that. There's a really good book called um
It's called
I have it there. Um
There's a really good book by the ran history
Uh, I'm forgetting the name of it now, but it was uh
This guy was allowed to actually go into the archives of the ran
Institute where these things were not necessarily open to the public
I think it's the the one of the few like recent brand books though
So people could find it on the internet. Okay. I can't find it on the bookshelf
All this sounds like
auto ab
kao
um
It's the the idea that that that before you get the new order you have to have this period of
of of chaos so so as I understand it taba stock one of its functions was to sort of
Divide the generations
So it was instrumental in creating the the british rock and roll scene british music scene
Uh with the Beatles and the stones. So I think we're both taba stock
babies
um
And you mentioned adorno, didn't you theodore adorno?
Um, I think he was involved in the taba stock
clinic one of the cultural marxists, wasn't he?
Was he I I don't know
I don't know if he was but I know that ardie lang
did work for the taba stock institute and he was later on brought into the esalen institute to uh
educate them on how to induce schizophrenic
uh traits so it's very interesting
that
During this time and I have it actually in this um
in this paper on my sub stack called
Cy war false flags and the psychology
Of shaping another's reality or house mass perception is manufactured. Sorry. That's a really long title, but
There is an in that article. There is a clipping of an old esalen institute
um article
from their own publication
um
In 1967 pamphlet yeah cult where it's at
um
And uh, yeah, it's being talked about how ardie lang this is from them ardie lang of london's taba stock clinic on a
Proposal to establish a blowout center at big sir
Where a small selected group of psychotics will be treated as persons on voyages of discovery and allowed to go through their psychoses
It appears that the non paranoid acute schizophrenic break is relatively short
And just followed by a re integrative process
So that the individual returns from his trip
They even have it on quotes trip with a higher IQ than at the beginning
We hope to find new ways to make such breaks valuable functioning heightening experiences. So this is
Um, as you are correct to say
Directly connected to theodora adorno's work with the frankford institute who was also calling for in his case
His specialty was music. He was actually quite an accomplished
A pianist
um to use music to induce schizophrenic breaks
So yes, I think that adorno clearly was also involved with this either directly or not, you know
But this this taba stocking type process which the beetles were brought into and the grateful dead
actually had as one of their agents, um
The uh a relative like I think the agent of grateful dead his father was
From the taba stock institute again. I'm sorry. I I'm very bad with games. I think it's trist
right, um
Eric trist, but um, so yeah, the
The point is is that um, there's this uh focus on inducing schizophrenic breaks inducing
Um fragmenting the mind with clearly as they even say themselves a re integrative process
So you need to shock
And have the schizophrenic breaks and then you can kind of reassemble things you can rebuild
Things and at the time these words were not
Didn't have like as much of a negative connotation as they they do now and and the taba stock clinic clearly didn't have
Like I don't think today the uslin institute would publicly align itself with
taba stock theory because um, it's more known now, but uh
there
There is definitely a connection with that and and yeah, it's and it's unfortunate that the beetles are still
Like as popular as they are but a lot of a lot of these rock groups like jim Morrison from the doors
His father was uh, not just any high-level guy from the the u.s. Military
But a lot of them are tied directly to the u.s. Military, but jim Morrison's father was directly connected to the um
To the uh gulf of tomkin incident
Yeah
He was in charge of the u.s. Beach and of in the south china sea at the gulf during the gulf
He initiated the vietnam war effectively
Yeah
so
Yeah, I
this all makes sense why
lsd was so important to the to the whole birth of the the hippie
scene and why grateful dead were giving out free acid tabs at their their gigs that if this was the mission to kind of
fracture the personalities and and
Of of a generation
Then that's the obvious
Short cut way of doing it tell everyone to tune in turn on tune in and drop out
So they so they they were very influential because I mean, I don't know about you Cynthia when I was
When I was a sort of young when I was being intellectually formed, let's say by by the culture and by wide reading
But but wide reading of books which had already been
um
Were being promoted by their system not not outside of books
I sort of
was given the impression that
That the sixth is was this sort of
The peace and love and everything was organic. It was just sprung from this natural
Expression of the desires of youth and stuff, but it wasn't it was all top down. Wasn't it? It was all
invented
and then kind of
Facility
Yeah, it's an unfortunate and you know like before the hippie generation you had the the lost generation, right?
Which was Huxley's generation after the the first world war and they're they were also a kind of like, you know young people who
kind of like dropped out as well of of life because it was like
The existentialism was like, what's the point if everything is, you know as as corrupt as uh,
We have viewed it after the atrocities of the first world war
Um, and I think that that was a kind of prequel to what would later be the hippie movement and eldest Huxley, you know
Wrote the doors of perception, which was hugely influential in
The the counterculture movement again. It's called counterculture. It's very much
Theodora adorno frankfort school concept of like you need to wage war on on the the classical
uh
ideas of art and literature
Interestingly, you know, and like you they're they're talking about
Uh, Mao a lot in this and it is interesting to note that the chinese were also going through
the cultural revolution
during this time and they were also
I think it's it's it's complicated and it wasn't so black and white
but there was definitely an attack on the traditional
aspects and
Confucianism was was also
being attacked. Um, you know during this period there there was oddly, uh, um, a kind of
a
Syncretization that was happening at the same time there and and you see that actually joseph need him and russell
did have influence
in china and joseph need him is still like really respected by a lot of I think, um
Chinese intellectuals unfortunately, but um
That's also interesting that there there was that I think that that's not a coincidence that they were happening
Both at the same time and one of the the openings to the end of the cultural revolution was actually, um
I forgot his name
surprise surprise
Lynn Lynn den or something like that, but he was um, he's a maestro
And it had been forbidden to play music like Beethoven and stuff in china and he he actually opened up with like and it's beautiful
There are pictures of like a huge audience where they again played like Beethoven's oh to joy
And it was kind of also an announcement that the cultural revolution was over
Um in china and you know the the the classical music
Came back very quickly as you said, you know, like most chinese kids learn how to play a classical instrument and classical music now
And confucianism is also like now very much prominent
Um in the culture today, but very interesting that they also went through this kind of
clearly, um
controlled shock
To the population during the same time that it was but oddly it was done in a very, um
Um
That it was obviously done in a more heavy-handed way and there was more of an idea of
Liberation I think all around in the in the west
But for I think the youth in china, they thought that this was liberation. What was what was happening as well
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting, isn't it that that some people have this view that um
Somehow russia and russia and china are different or the bricks nations are somehow
Freed from this this control system or the or the different entities which which
um
Whose values may yet prevail against this
the evil
Western blob, but they're at the highest levels. They're all the the same people who started the
the soviet revolution the bolshevik revolution basically got Mao into power that
They're all connected aren't they at the highest levels
Well, the at least, you know, uh, putin
I mean, first of all, I would like to I guess make the discount that the chinese civilization is extremely old
and
And that's why it'll be interesting too for matt to talk about the kazaar and history
Because there was this odd
Cooperation that was happening during this time between the confucian chinese the the muslims
And and the jews in
Having something that seemed to actually really work in terms of a positive ecumenicism or like syria
For instance was unfortunately, you know syria has gone through a lot of brutality
But it was one of like the cradles of civilization and had a real mixture of of religions and it seems to have had a positive
Has been a positive center
Um that really shows that you can have like a dialogue of cultures a dialogue of of of religions
But
You know the chinese civilization is is very old. So in terms of its role in the mystery cult stuff
I have not been able to
To connect that and I think that there are a lot of
Just like there are positive things in the west. I think that christianity was a positive
There are a lot of positive players and it is a positive
Thing that has occurred
Phenomenally speaking there was also positive things
civilizationally in in china
But in the 20th century 19th century
There was a lot of
Common infiltration
Yes, that was happening in russia in china and in the west
And I do I am of the opinion that the communist revolutions were
um
Like
Not as organic as were said that they were and that there was a lot of
Foreign influence actually in bringing this about and putin has actually said this
publicly that he he did he he does not think that the bolshevik revolution was
You know
An organic thing that occurred and nor does he think that it was positive
Now how much he thinks about
The idea of of wanting to return to a zardom of russia. I don't know but
All to say is that
I do still think that there is some disagreement as even there are within these institutes as we're bringing up in terms of like
Economic development like the states. I think that there were real things that were happening in terms of economic sovereignty
Um that really did clearly increase the standard of living of people increased
Um, you know the prosperity of of of a people and there was a richness in in ideas for the good
um
So I don't think of everything as just being uh bad. However
Right now in this moment. It's it's um, it's it's very confusing
at this point, you know like to even
The the strategy of trump right now
Is is it it's not something that you can ever read literally and even the the people who follow trump know that you can't
You can't receive what he's saying in a literal way, which to me is is very problematic and I understand
You know the concept of like if you want to drain the swamp and you want to you know address corruption
You can't you can't say every you can't announce everything you're about to do
But it it's kind of reaching a ridiculous stage at this point
Um in terms of like just be consistent in what you're asking for
Especially on just like the economic front
Right and and like his his Davos speech recently and and just saying that like there's all of these accomplishments that were made in the last year
which are clearly
that's not being really uh honest and
uh, you know the fact that they're now like producing more energy than china in just one year, which is like
physically impossible for you to you know backtrack
50 years of deindustrialization in in one year
50 plus years actually
um
and
This whole thing of like talking
To two opposite meanings at the same time, especially when you're talking about the economy
You have to start
You know calling bullshit on this and say like you need to start talking
um more honestly and and
It's the
The the there is something weird going on
I agree where it's not clear like where other countries are even fitting into the weird trump
alternate universe
Construct so I mean they're very good. They're very good. They've they've clearly switched things up so that you can't do
The kind of geopolitical analysis like the the approach and and the understanding to geopolitics
You cannot apply it
To how things are now because of the whole weirdness trump even says, you know, he he uses the world wrestling foundation as his
as his model
for which
What is the world wrestling foundation? It's about, you know
fakery someone can
Well, and also it's like a villain like you're the good guys pitted against the villain
But at any moment now
The good guy can side with the villain become a villain or the the villain can side with the good guy and become the good guy
Yeah, like it's it can just switch at any moment and
forth
If Cynthia you are correct that the aim
The ultimate aim of these people is to recreate imperial realm
Then it has got to be a good thing
that
Within a few months years at most
We are going to see
Mark Carney
and
President Bieber as I call him Justin
Justin Castro
being
paraded through the streets of dc
in chains
and then
I don't know what happened so they they didn't get chucked off the tapio and rock do they do they get fed to the lions
something it's
It doesn't end happily for them
And you've got to admit there's the the well you you you repeatedly said in this podcast
There's an upside there's there are always moments where things turn out right
And amid the misery. I think a lot of people will be cheered by that moment
In Canada especially but across the world
Oh
Canadians have no idea what Mark Carney has actually
Done as his as his legacy and a lot of Canadians just like him because they don't like Trump
Um, and you know, Trump obviously didn't become
More popular after he announced crazy tariffs on on canada
Canadian steel and things like this which were already being given, you know sold to the states for very good prices, but
Um, I know Mark Carney has really done a number on uh on the uk as well. Yes. Yeah, he's had a
Terrific legacy. Thank you. Thank you, Cynthia for sending him over over to us
We we're we're we're we're never gonna forget that, you know, what Canada did to us
It's like yeah, well, yeah
Anyway, well we we have king charles as our head
So we're not in charge of anything we we don't really have a constitution
Our prime minister can be removed anytime like they did for australia
Um, if the the the head monarch of uh, of uh, britain decides so so
You know at the end of the day, we're all subjects charles talking of royals in canada. Have you ever looked into the camloops thing?
Weird disturbing thing that allegedly happened when queen elizabeth the second
Came to canada in the 1970s
In in british columbia camloops. It's dark man. It's dark
um, anyway, I think
Cynthia we could I could talk to you for hours because you know so much and it's fascinating and i've learned i've learned many new things
Um, please tell us where we can find out more about your research is where we can read you
Uh, yeah, the best place is by substack synthia chung dot substack dot com titled through glass darkly
and it has uh, my I do various subjects including rising tide
positive cultural
Lectures, it's not just doom and gloom
Um, although obviously we have to talk about that aspect because there's a lot of that going on
There is there is thank you and again say to say to matt
Obviously i'm still up for doing that podcast about
Why the casarians are good? I don't think he's going to persuade me, but I know he'll he'll he'll fight a good fight
Okay, I look forward to watching that. Yeah. Yeah, it'll be good. It'll be good. Um, and um, everyone else
I hope you've enjoyed this epic podcast as much as I have. Um
don't forget to
Paid subs I love you all but my paid paying subscribers are my favorites because you know that without you
This this podcast would not be going because this is my livelihood
So thank you to those of you support me and um
Those of you don't do consider. I know I know it's a crowded market, but yeah, you know, come on
I mean, I'm I'm I'm way better than I mean
I'm way better than the rest is made up history, for example
And they get paid 90 000 a month. Well, they did two years ago. They probably get paid to double that now. Um
Support my sponsors by golden silver obviously
Because it's still going to go up. Um, although I'm not an expert, but I'd be you know, I'm right. Um, thank you very much again
Cynthia
Thank you