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Right, here we go.
Debbie, listen, thanks.
Thank you so much, first of all, for sending me your book, The Deep State Business.
Man, that's heavy reading.
That's heavy reading.
I'm going to start off by asking you, can we please do this in two parts?
I would love to have you back.
And at the end, let's fix a date in the next four to five weeks,
because I think there's too much to talk about here.
And if it's okay with you, I'd like to talk about chapters one,
two, and three-ish in this episode, and then maybe four, five in the second episode.
Sure.
There's just too much to cover.
To be honest, you could probably pack in four, five podcasts.
I don't mind, actually.
That's all I need.
But there's just a lot of information.
And the thing is, my way of looking at things is always saying to people,
especially when they want to promote their book,
the more you give information out, the more likely someone's going to buy the book.
Don't be worried about going through the details,
because some people just want to skim over it, and then people don't really get invested.
And the more you give, the more you will receive.
So if you can really get into the book, that'd be great.
But starting off, there's a couple of things.
For example, The Forward, Jeffrey Tucker from Brownstone Institute.
You just wonder why that guy, that Indian guy, whatever his name is,
why did he ring?
Rajiv.
Yeah, Rajiv.
Why did he ring Jeffrey Tucker?
And how did he know these vaccines were going to come very quick?
I mean, that's in the foreword.
You could easily just skim it.
But that, to me, is a bombshell, right?
Number one.
And then number two, you talk about in chapter one,
the global biodefense, public partnership,
you know, military industrial complex business.
We need to go into that.
But what's really important is like 9-11, 2001,
wasn't just the war on terror and, you know,
the Iraq war and Afghan war and Osama bin Laden.
It was those anthrax letters, which were so bizarre at the time.
And you're like, what?
And it's been proven that that anthrax came from the U.S.
Army Biodefense Laboratories.
And they pinned it on a guy called Ivan,
who happened to die of suicide in 2008
before, yeah, inverted commas,
suicided before the court case even started.
And now the reason why this is relevant, Debbie,
I just want to quickly tell you something is,
I'm telling you, you know, I've been a doctor 25, 26 years.
I know all about paracetamol overdose.
I've seen it when I was working in ER.
People who overdose on acetamol,
was it, you guys call it in America?
Tylenol.
Tylenol, yeah.
But we call it paracetamol, Tylenol, paracetamol.
No one who knows how to really die chooses to die
with a Tylenol overdose.
One, it's very difficult to do that.
Two, they can put charcoal and make you vomit
and, you know, try and absorb it and get rid of it.
Three, if you are successful,
it is the most painful way of dying ever.
Like, it's slow.
It's agonizing.
It's not nice.
Like, so if you've got even two brain cells together
and you want to kill yourself,
that is not the number one choice.
It's not number two, three, four, or five choice
of how you want to kill yourself.
So how's this guy who's supposed to be a scientist,
laboratory, you know, PhD, whatever,
smart cookie guy, choosing to kill himself
with acetamol, you know, paracetamol.
And the funny thing is, when they found him,
apparently he was unconscious.
I can tell you right now,
people who overdose on paracetamol
are very rarely unconscious.
Maybe if they take an alcohol and something else,
it might be unconscious.
But they're not unresponsive.
So to me, I ran this by my wife.
She's a doctor as well.
I was like, what do you think of this?
She was like, it's a little rubbish.
I was like, yeah, right?
So, you know, the fact they found this person
unresponsive, unconscious,
and then he died of acute liver failure
and then three days later he's dead,
the whole thing stinks.
That guy didn't kill himself.
Like, that's proper deep state
CIA bullshit going on there.
Anyway, I wanted you to get that off my chest.
The mic is over to you now.
Thank you, Dr. Malik.
First of all, thank you so much for having me.
It's really an honor to be here.
I admire your work.
You are one of the few people that I can listen to
and not feel like my brain is being polluted
with lies and propaganda.
And that is really very, very rare.
So thank you.
I'm so happy that you said what you said about Ivins.
And the reason I'm happy that you open with that,
even though it's so random,
is that I've been having a discussion about that
with someone who is supposed to be on our side
and who claims that he committed suicide.
And I said exactly, my husband is a doctor.
So I have the same exact experience as you.
I looked at it and I said, that doesn't make any sense.
And then I asked my husband, he said,
no, you don't, you can't commit suicide.
Or it's extremely difficult to commit suicide
on what we call Tylenol
because it doesn't happen right away.
It takes a few days.
They can purge, they can get it out of your system.
And then this person tried to claim that it was Tylenol PM,
which is like a Tylenol plus sleeping pills or sleeping,
more sleeping medicine.
I haven't done this yet, Dr. Malik.
And this is, it's just so such a coincidence.
It's Malik, by the way, Malik.
Malik, I'm so sorry.
I call you Malik.
It's all right.
I was about to look up.
When did they come out with Tylenol PM?
Because I don't even know if they had it then,
if it was a thing.
And so that whole, the whole claim,
whenever I hear anybody who claims
that Ivan's committed suicide,
who think who claims to be on our side
or an insider or knowing anything
about the bio warfare industrial complex,
I know something's wrong
when that person goes along with that narrative,
because that narrative is so ridiculous and so fishy.
So ridiculous.
Like, it's like,
It's totally, totally.
Like Trump, Trump got shot and his ear got cut
and he just suddenly magically healed.
Like, you like, like,
and I'm not saying these people are deliberately malicious
and misleading.
I just think there's a lot of stupid people out there.
And by that, I don't mean like low IQ, right?
And no, I just mean that they get captured
by their own ideology, mind control, programming,
you know, they invest their belief system
in this cult figure or cult ideology.
And then it's just too difficult to backtrack.
You know, you dig yourself a hole, you climb in,
you don't want to climb up, you know?
So that's kind of you.
That's kind of you because I,
I attribute it sometimes to that.
Many people are in that camp,
but I also am a very,
have become a very paranoid person.
And so I tend to look,
you know, I tend to do background searches on people now
and figure out where they came from,
what their previous positions were,
what they were saying,
and what they're claiming now.
And a lot of times I see that they,
I conclude from my research
that they are being paid or hired
or, you know, coerced,
in some cases, to be gatekeepers.
And so they, I don't know if you're familiar with
the three camps that,
oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.
I'm going to break out.
Take your time.
No, no, take your time.
But I'm going to, while you're thinking about that,
I'm going to, listen, I'm like you.
Look, I just, I was doing some cleaning today
because I had a friend over yesterday.
And before we started the podcast,
he was looking at the big shelf behind me going,
oh no, no, no, this is a complete mess.
You need to organize everything.
Oh my God.
Put them in color scheme and this and that.
And you know what, fair do's.
And she said, look, a cluttered,
cluttered space will be a cluttered mind.
You need to clear everything out
so things can come to you.
And I was like, okay, okay.
So I went into our house
and we've got massive big shelf.
And it's a mess, right?
This kid's stuff there.
Kid's toys, Lego pictures from three years ago.
So I went through this massive purge this morning.
I was cleaning, I felt like like five black bags,
two boxes, recycle stuff,
books to give away to the charity shop.
Felt really great about it, okay?
But in the months to go on the picks,
I found cards like from five, six, seven years ago
where people have said, hey, thanks Doc Malick.
You saved my life, literally saved my life.
And thanks Doc Malick.
You know, it was the best operation ever.
You're a brilliant surgeon.
And it was so nice to see that.
It was so nice to see that.
And it was reminding me of my past life.
And I've put it on my Instagram
if anybody doesn't believe me
or my subs that I've posted on notes.
And that was my background.
Now the thing is, I'm like you,
like I thought in the world of orthopedic surgery
it was cutthroat type A personality, narcissist,
backstabbing going on, competitiveness, private practice.
You leave that world and you come into this world.
Man, this has been an eye opener.
This is, whoa, whoa.
Like people, I've realized I've got different personas.
Like what you, they project.
When you actually have a chat with them on the phone
or like a private though, they're very different.
They're not the same.
And it's not nice.
There's a lot of ego.
There's a lot of arrogance.
There's a lot of hubris.
There is a lot of gatekeeping going on and misdirection.
And it's got really exhausting for me to be like, what the heck?
So I've been like, yeah, I have actually been quite wary
and I don't get that many people on now who my alarm bells go off.
Now in the past, I was like, no, no,
we should give them a platform and it gives them an opportunity
to add themselves.
But you know what?
I just find their energy so draining and so exhausting
and I don't want to give them any more airtime
than they already get.
Does that make sense?
So I've moved on.
So I'm in agreement with you.
Absolutely.
Yeah, I've gone through just a very turbulent emotional journey
over this because I started out being a very, very traditional,
very stereotypical liberal Democrat.
And in the United States, I would be reading The New York
Times and listening to NPR, which is National Public Radio,
like the BBC.
And I believed everything.
I believed it.
I believed the whole thing.
I was, you know, I hated Trump, which I still do.
But you know, I was very partisan at the time
and I'm no longer partisan at all.
I think partisanship is a sigh up.
So I got I woke up with COVID, you know, and I for a year and a half
just struggled locally to try to fight all the men,
you know, all of the crazy stuff that was going on didn't work.
So I was trying to write.
Nobody would publish anything.
Finally, Brownstone, the Brownstone Institute,
which is Jeffrey Tucker, as you mentioned,
they published my book and he wrote the forward to it.
They started publishing what I wrote.
And that encouraged me to actually start investigating what actually happened.
And that's how I came to, you know, uncover all the things that I did
and to write all the articles that became the book.
And I thought, OK, well, all these people at Brownstone
and in the medical freedom movement
and the people who are opposing COVID, they understand.
They understand like me.
They woke up.
They understand that the parties are fake,
that partisanship is a Psyop that we're outside of that system
and that we need to operate outside of that system in order to,
first of all, in order to preserve humanity,
in order to preserve our sanity,
in order to work towards something better, right?
And that we're not going to get sucked in to the Psyop anymore.
And then they all got sucked into the Psyop again.
Which one?
There's so many.
The Trump Maha.
Well, in the United States, it's the Trump Maha Psyop.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that's a neat.
So all my people, the people that I work with through COVID
and not all of them, there's a few who still are outside.
But, you know, at the Brownstone Institute and in terms of people
who were in the medical so-called supporters of RFK Junior,
they all fell for the new Psyop, which is now Trump is our savior.
And now we have friends in government.
I thought we all understood the public-private partnership.
That didn't go away.
That doesn't go away, depending on who is in charge.
That's not, doesn't change.
You know, Trump was in charge.
He started everything.
He started COVID.
He's in charge of warp speed.
I mean, he wasn't ever in charge really,
but he was the front man for it.
And now we think that he's our savior.
I just can't understand it, Doc Malik.
I cannot understand it.
And so I had a nervous breakdown.
5D.
Chest.
5D chest.
Yeah.
We see where that's got us the 5D chest, right?
And so what happened was I was writing articles
around the election, around the time of the election
in the United States.
We were, I was doing the same thing that I did during COVID.
I was taking people who said that they were doing something
like that they were public health experts,
but actually they were bio warfare, you know,
experts and, and, and operatives, right?
So I uncovered a lot of that during COVID.
And then running up to the election,
I uncovered the people who said that they were,
that they were freedom fighters and they,
that they were health freedom people.
And I uncovered that they were actually
part of the machine, that they came from places
that were absolutely not health freedom,
that they were actually part of the public-private partnership
that ran COVID and that was going to run the PsyOps forever
and ever.
And yet when I ran those,
when I tried to publish those stories, I got slammed,
slammed by the people who celebrated my discoveries during COVID.
So they celebrated when I said,
oh, Deborah Berks, who was the, the lead of the United States
government's, you know, COVID task force,
but she actually came from the biosecurity side of things,
not from public health.
She was not a public health person at all.
Everybody was like, oh, wow, that's amazing.
Yeah, there's this horrible, you know, deep state,
public-private partnership, and, and there's all these people
who are pretending to be public health officials,
but they're not.
And then I said, okay, and now there's these other people
who are pretending to be freedom, health freedom fighters,
but they're not.
They're coming from the same place as Deborah Berks,
maybe not the bio warfare,
but definitely the deep state.
And they canceled me basically.
And so I got canceled by the whole left,
all my previous friends and colleagues and whatever.
I was doing art and the art world,
definitely was not on my side during COVID.
And then I lost my whole other support network,
which I thought that we were together.
I thought we understood what was going on.
And I lost that again.
And so now I feel like I'm just floating
in the void of the few people like you,
like my friend and colleague, Sasha Latipova,
who I know you've had on your show and who you know,
who actually introduced us.
So I'm grateful for that.
And she, you know, and so the few of us
who are just kind of hanging out here,
floating in what's zone, it's zone three.
So I'm going to tell you about the three zones
and then I'm going to try to remember.
I'm so annoyed that I can't remember
because it's a really fantastic British writer on Substack
who, an intellectual who wrote a book,
who wrote a book about COVID and propaganda.
And I can't believe I'm blanking on his name.
I love him.
Anyway, he has a very, very good description
of how propaganda works.
And he describes three camps.
Camp one is just the surface.
It's where people live who are like me
when I used to read the New York Times,
listen to, you know, public radio.
You just believe what you're told by the media.
Camp three is where you and I and Sasha
and a few other people are.
It's like when you realize that
that's all lies and propaganda
and you no longer believe any of that.
And you understand that partisanship is a Psyop
and most of the things that you're being told
are manipulations to make you feel a certain way,
to make you behave a certain way
in order to cover up what's actually going on.
That's camp three.
Camp two is the problem.
So camp two is where all the gatekeepers
are stationed so that people who wake up in camp one,
like all of our friends during COVID and say,
oh, wait a minute, something bad is happening here.
They get stuck in camp two because they are,
that's where all the secondary and more pernicious
and more insidious Psyops are happening.
It's like all the limited hangouts.
Like, yeah, COVID was bad, but now Trump is da-da-da.
But Elon Musk, he did the Twitter files.
X is now a free speech platform.
So that's camp two and camp two is where they catch everyone
and prevent them from actually waking up and getting to camp three.
So I feel like now most people are in camp two now
who I used to be more closely affiliated with.
And so I don't have a lot of people left here in camp three.
So I appreciate you being here in camp three with me.
Well, I appreciate you too.
And I think those who are in camp three
are truly on team humanity.
Like, that's the definition.
You aren't team humanity.
You're not on team Trump.
You're not on team reform party, team labor, team Democrat.
You're not team Christian.
You're not team Jew.
You're not team Zionism.
You're not team any frickin' anything.
You are team humanity.
And that's so rare.
And I, listen, it was the same over here, right?
So you finally, you think you're alone.
You think like no one's like you.
And then you start getting all this information
drip, drip coming to you.
You start discovering new platforms
and you start like telegramming this and that.
And information starts going, oh my God, I'm not alone.
There's other people I think like me.
Then you connect with them.
Then you speak to them.
Then sometimes you even meet with them.
And they're like, you know what?
We don't trust the media.
The media lies.
The BBC lies. CNN lies.
The government lies.
They're liars.
They're the journalists can't be trusted.
The authorities can't be trusted.
COVID was a hoax.
And you're like, I love you guys.
And then the Ukraine war comes.
And it's like Putin's bad.
Putin's a dictator.
Oh my God.
Have you seen what the news has said about him?
And you're like, what?
And they're like, and you know, we need to give more arms
to the Ukrainians.
You're like, you actually, you're supporting
the military industrial complex now.
You trust the media and you believe in the government.
Like what happened to you?
And it's like, it's like, I don't understand.
It's like, who's taking them over their bodies?
Like they were completely anti all of this before
when it was related to COVID.
Then Ukraine Russia war comes along
and they're just establishment figures.
And then October 7th comes along
and it's like, I'm ass, I'm ass.
They're evil.
And I'm like, hold on one second.
Israel was a test bed for COVID.
That Netanyahu injected his population.
They had the worst mandates and the most draconian laws.
He treated his population like scum, you know?
He was a tyrant.
They had the worst COVID measures.
They don't care about their people.
And it's like, no, no, no.
We now believe in Netanyahu.
I'm like, did you know leading up to October 7th
half the population was on the street
like demanding that the government be overthrown?
Like there was almost civil war in Israel.
Like, but no, now the media is saying this.
Now it's all bad Hamas.
And it's like, now we're supporting a genocide
and it's all okay.
And you believe everything the media tells you.
And you know, people like Max Blumenthal
have done great work, you know, Jewish guy
who's exposed the military industrial complex,
the censorship industrial complex.
And they're all liars.
These people, the governments of all these countries
don't give a damn about their people,
no matter what religion or race or faith or anything.
But the problem is, it doesn't matter.
And then, then you get the Trump sigh up.
Then you get the Elon Musk sigh up.
Then you get the Nigel Frash sigh up.
Then it's like, oh, no, we need to vote for reform.
Oh, no, we need to trust them.
And you go, well, what about the fact that Larry Ellison
was in, you know, the White House on day two,
pushing 500 billions for mRNA tech.
And it's like, can't talk about that.
How about the fact that reform parties now got
a bunch of ex Tory ministers who are pushing the COVID shot
how can you support that?
Well, it's better than the other option.
And that's one thing I hear or, well, what do you recommend?
And it's like, how about we don't play?
Like, sometimes the way you win is not to play
because the game is rigged.
So don't play.
But the problem is they're, they're in their cult
and they're in their little team mindset.
They don't have the brain capacity to think bigger than that.
And they're captured by this ideology.
And then we're stuck.
Anyway, I need to shut up.
You need to talk, please.
Can you talk about then the formation
of this bio industrial complex?
And because it's been going on for quite a long time,
like literally 2001 decades.
Yeah. Let me just, I just want to say the name of the person
that I couldn't remember before is David Hughes.
Do you know David Hughes?
I do know David Hughes.
Excellent. Yes.
Yeah, he's fantastic and really smart.
And so he's the one who came up with the three camps idea.
I just want to give him credit for that.
He has a lot of really good ways of framing what's happening.
Another really good frame that he has is transnational class
relations because that's what's happening right now.
It's transnational and it's all about class.
It has nothing to do with political parties
or ideologies or anything like that.
Okay. So as far as the bio defense industrial complex,
interestingly, I am currently researching polio.
Not, I didn't think I was going to.
That wasn't something that I was interested in.
But Sasha Latapova was doing some research on something
and she asked me to help her find some articles
about the people who first so-called isolated the polio
virus in the 1930s and 40s.
Apparently they even did it before that.
So I started looking into it and surprise, surprise,
the people who are credited with isolating the strain of polio.
And I say all of these words and quotes
because all of them I think are scientifically misleading.
But they claim that they isolated the strain of polio
called the Mahoney strain, which is the key strain
that is used in vaccines.
And it is used as sort of like the standard for polio.
And I looked into who those people were.
And one of them in 1941 became in charge of the mill
of the United States Army's flu influenza
and other infectious disease programs.
So he became part of the military industrial complex in 1941.
And the other guy is a mystery man
who you can't find any information about anywhere
who worked at a university in Michigan for like 30 or 40 years
and only published like 10 papers.
And we did some more digging Sasha and I
and found out that he was definitively and self-admittedly
hired to do work for the bio weapons program
that FDR started during World War II.
So the bio weapons program started at least in 1940, 1941.
That's when we have a paper trail of it starting
in the United States, in other countries, in Japan,
in Europe, in place in Germany, it started before that.
And bio weapons were used by different countries
on different populations.
But in the United States, it started during World War II,
FDR commissioned a new program, which was the bio weapons program.
And one of the guys in that program is one of the guys
who isolated the key strain of polio.
So polio then becomes, I think, not that they were using polio
as a bio weapon, but the polio program,
which basically the program was this.
They took a disease that wasn't hurting or killing anyone
but that had a very visually compelling effect
on a very small number of people.
So like people, kids had to be in braces.
They put people in iron lungs and paraded them around the world
to show how awful it was.
But it had really no impact on anybody.
And they used those visuals to create enormous panic.
And that might sound familiar over something
that wasn't killing or hurting anyone.
That might sound familiar.
And then they used that to raise enormous amounts of money
to start treatment programs, which is great.
I mean, they treated paralyzed kids
and they helped a lot of people.
That was the public side of it.
And they also started looking at vaccines,
which they claimed they were doing through a private foundation.
But clearly, they were also doing it through the bio weapons program
and the military industrial complex.
So polio is a really good kind of precursor for COVID
and for every other infectious disease panic
that they've ever done.
So they take something that's not hurting anybody
but they make a huge deal out of it.
It's mostly about the propaganda and the public relations.
And they make everybody terrified
and then governments have to get involved
and the pharmaceutical industry has to get involved
and all of the research institutions have to get involved
and all the scientists have to get involved.
Now it's really interesting
because already in the 1940s,
I discovered just now through this polio research,
when they started the bio weapons program,
I think it was like 3,000 scientists already.
How many people are working on infectious disease?
It's like everyone who's working on infectious disease
at all the major research institutions
in the United States all of a sudden becomes part of the bio weapons program.
So they are no longer doing research that's just basic science
or that is public health oriented.
They are now doing research that is related to
bio warfare and bio defense.
And so starting in the 40s.
And I think ever since then everything that's ever been done
in that arena has been controlled,
the funding and the agenda has been set by the bio warfare industrial complex.
So then we can fast forward to anthrax,
which as you said clearly came from a United States bio warfare research facility.
I just want to pause for a moment
because conversations like this are exactly why I started this podcast
to explore ideas openly without censorship or corporate filters.
If you're finding value in these conversations,
becoming a subscriber is the best way to support independent work like this
and help it grow.
And many listeners eventually realize they want to go deeper
and apply these ideas to their own lives.
That is where my consultation service comes in.
It's a space where we can explore your situation one to one
and bring clarity to what can feel often very overwhelming.
It's extremely difficult to navigate the healthcare system.
So if this resonates, you can find everything you want at dot malik.com.
Also, if you've got a moment, check out my affiliate page there.
Right, let's get back into this conversation.
Go ahead.
Sorry, can I quickly just go back to polio?
So that like you said, that is the big one they talk about
when it comes to vaccines, vaccine efficacy.
But look, we are, you know, we cured polio.
I mean, my dad talked about it.
Oh, polio polio is a terrible disease in India and everything.
And I've met people who've had polio, you know, one skinny little leg
and he was in the finals for orthopedic surgery exams.
You know, what is this diagnosis, blah, blah, blah.
What can their problems be?
So it's real that people end up with this kind of neurological problem.
The question is what does actually cause it?
You know, some people think it's toxin like DDT.
Some people say it's the virus.
Some people say it could be both.
Some people say it's never really gone away.
It's just been given a different name,
Guillain Barry syndrome or whatever.
What do you think of what's going on about polio before we move on?
Oh, good. Yeah. That's a good question.
So polio is a myth as defined at the story that there is a distinct clinical entity
called poliomyelitis and that that distinct clinical entity can be separated
from other clinical entities, particularly acute.
Now, I'm going to forget the name of it, acute.
Transverse myelitis and kefalitis or something like that.
All of those things.
But there's another one that they used in order to screen for polio.
And basically it can't, clinically you can't differentiate polio
from a whole bunch of other things.
So polio, when poliomyelitis is a definition that doesn't have a clinical
description that's different from a lot of other things.
And so therefore if in the 19 and the early 1900s when they just called any childhood paralysis,
which they of course then said, oh, oh, yeah, it's just children.
It was called infantile paralysis actually acute flaccid, acute flaccid paralysis.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
Right. Exactly.
Acute flaccid paralysis.
That's exactly it.
It is hilarious, Doc Malick, because now I'm going to, I'll rewind.
So all the way back then when they started identifying it as an epidemic,
which was completely weird and bizarre and didn't make any sense.
They said, oh, there are these outbreaks.
They didn't start happening until, you know, the 19th century when they described some
places where some people, some kids were getting paralyzed in the same place at the same time.
That's it. That's how they described the epidemic.
Some kids were getting paralyzed or were having some neurological issues
in the same place at the same time.
Therefore, they concluded in the 20th century, oh, well, it must be a contagious disease.
Even though they couldn't define the disease separate from a million other things,
they had no idea what was causing the disease or it's not even a disease.
It's just a condition.
They said, oh, it's so strange that it's not happening.
It's only happening in the Western world in places that are very clean and where there's
a lot of hygiene.
It's not happening in places that where people are, you know, have sewage flowing
and have bad hygiene and contaminated food.
Isn't that strange?
Never were able to explain that.
And then all of a sudden when they claimed to have eliminated it in the West,
they decided that it was happening in all these contaminated places
where people have bad hygiene and bad food.
Even though they described it initially as being the opposite of that.
Everything that they initially described as being polio, they then turned around
and decided that it was exactly the opposite once they had supposedly eliminated it.
And so the condition polio doesn't exist as a separate clinical entity.
Okay.
Then what causes it?
If it's not a separate clinical entity, then all of the tests that they did
in the like 20s and 30s where what they did was it's really, when I read it, I didn't,
I was not expecting to find this document.
Like, I mean, I've heard everybody, you know, argue about viruses, no viruses.
And I don't even argue about that.
I actually think there are viruses and I think that they can cause problems.
But the way that they did the research back then is just unbelievable.
So they would take somebody who had that, some kind of paralysis
or even somebody who just lived in the same household and they would take something,
let's say, fecal material from that person.
And then they would run it through.
So here's how they discovered that polio, a non-specific condition, is caused by a virus.
They ran the fecal matter of somebody who either had it or was in the same place as people who
had it through filters that they said were filtering out everything the size of a bacterium.
So they knew about bacteria and they said, okay, is it a bacterium?
We want to know.
And they said, okay, we're going to filter out everything that could possibly be a bacteria.
So they filtered the poop through this filter.
They got some sludge remaining at the end that supposedly didn't have any bacteria in it.
And they said, okay, this sludge is, let's see if this sludge contains something that makes
somebody paralyzed.
So they took it and they fed it to monkeys.
And the monkeys didn't get sick.
Nothing happened.
So then they said, okay, well, obviously we have to inject it right into the brains of the
monkeys because this is a neurological condition.
So we can't actually try to infect them the way a human might get infected or we actually
don't know.
They didn't know.
They were like, we don't know.
How does it get, they still don't know.
Is it oral?
Is it, is it nasal?
Is it, you know, how do you get polio?
They didn't know.
They did not know.
And so they started injecting it right into the spinal cords and brains of monkeys.
And lo and behold, when you inject sludge into the brains of monkeys, they die sometimes
and sometimes they get paralyzed and sometimes.
I mean, it's just, you cannot believe what the story of polio is based on.
So when you see that and you hear people saying but polio, like when you say, well,
vaccines don't work and they say but polio, now I understand what but polio means.
But polio is a myth.
It's a fiction.
It's a complete and utter fiction.
Okay.
So they were injecting this poop sludge into monkey brains.
And then the ones, the monkeys who were paralyzed by it,
then they would take stuff from their brains and mash it up and mix it with formaldehyde
and other things in order to so-called neutralize the virus.
And then when you take that, what does it say?
No, I can't read it.
Your picture on my screen is a little bit pleasant, I can't read it.
This book says the basic laws of human stupidity.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I've heard you mention that.
This book is amazing.
Never underestimate the number of stupid people in this world
or the capacity of stupid people to do stupid things.
Never, ever underestimate it.
Oh, anyway, I've heard all this stuff before.
I'm like you.
I kind of believe that there are these things called viruses or whatever.
I just don't believe that they cause the degree of problems that we're told.
I don't believe that they cause contagion the way we're just described.
And I don't believe they're toxic and lethal, like we're told.
I kind of sit between terrain and germ.
And I think there might be something else completely entirely as well
that we just don't know about.
I'm keeping a very open mind.
But yeah, I've read about all these things
where they take gloop and brain and squish something into their spine.
If you did that to me, I'm sure I would get really unwell
if you injected tup, sludge into my spine.
And then you end up feeding the brains to someone else
and then hope, I mean, what?
What?
This is science.
Trust the science.
Yes.
And even, yeah, and I was talking to my husband about it,
about the descriptions that they have of how they did things.
Back then, the way that they prepared things and injected things,
I mean, they didn't have the stuff that we have now, the sterile,
the sterilization, and my husband said,
if you inject anything except for saline into some,
like very sterile saline, and even then,
it can be dangerous to inject anything into the spinal cord.
But anything other than just sterile saline,
you're going to have problems.
It doesn't matter what it is.
And so they keep injecting it.
I was going to say there's a blood pain barrier for a reason.
Yeah.
To protect that space.
And that's not how, and if there are viruses,
which I do think there are, and I think viruses can cause illness,
that's so far I haven't seen anything that convinces me otherwise,
but I'm keeping an open mind.
But even if there are, they're not injected into our brains
with a bunch of formaldehyde and other chemicals and other garbage
and other contaminants.
And so the whole, so that's how,
the story of polio is based on a disease that is not
specific, a cause that cannot be determined.
And a solution, so you're a solution to a problem
that's nonspecific and a cause that's not determined.
How is that solution actually supposed to work?
So the vaccine for polio, which is supposedly made from
the sludge stuff, where they supposedly isolated these strains,
and then they go into all the different strains.
There's a whole crazy story about the different strains of polio
that makes absolutely no sense.
And then the minute that they, in the 1950s,
when they went on this big campaign to inject everybody,
the second that that happened supposedly, that's it.
So they went from having, now again,
the numbers are minuscule, they are minuscule.
So let's say at the very, very height of the worst epidemic
in the 1950s, or the late 1940s, early 1950s,
and surprisingly, surprisingly, Doc Malik,
all of the epidemics, the worst ones for polio,
happened in the United States and other countries
where they were working on vaccines exactly at the same time.
I don't know why.
Why were there no epidemics of polio before, like big ones?
Suddenly, it became like the common thing
right when they were working on the vaccine.
I don't know why. It's a coincidence.
And so the minute that they, the height of it,
I think the worst, worst, worst epidemic,
I think there were 57,000 cases.
Again, now cases we know is an interesting term
that can be used in all different kinds of ways.
And so we have no idea what they meant by cases of polio
because when they describe polio,
they say most people who get it are fine.
Most people don't even get any symptoms.
Some people get like a flu-like symptoms.
Does that sound familiar?
Some people, you know, get minor neurologic symptoms
or paralysis that goes away.
A tiny number of people get paralysis
that doesn't go away and a minuscule number of people die.
So at the height, height, height of the worst, worst epidemic
in the United States, 50,000 cases.
So that's out of like hundreds of millions of people
and a few thousand deaths.
So based on a few thousand deaths
for a nonspecific disease,
from a cause that we don't identify,
that we can't identify,
from that we get to where we are now,
which is we, every country has to be certified
as being polio-free by doing epidemiological research
where they look for acute flaccid paralysis.
You're not going to believe this.
I mean, it's just, it's, the stupidity is hard to fathom.
And it's all in scientific papers and in the WHO
and in the European Union and in the United States,
all of the CDC and all of the, you know,
public health agencies, they have these things.
If one child has polio, all children are in danger.
Unbelievable.
Polio never affected anybody.
And that's what they're doing now.
And so now they're spending billions and billions of billions
and billions of dollars to make sure
that they're continuing to vaccinate
the entire world constantly for polio,
a disease that they can't, that is undefined
from a cause that we don't know,
using a vaccine that we don't even know what it's,
what it's targeting.
That's polio.
That's amazing breakdown, Debbie.
Seriously.
And what you've reminded me is that
one of the things I realized as a surgeon
and studying going for medicine was
the incredible capacity for medics and scientists
to conjure up nothing.
Yes, yes.
Like conjure up something out of nothing,
like literally making mountains out of mohills.
But in such an eloquent, flowery language
that builds this house of cards,
this very impressive world that they conjure up.
But actually, if you're any good at reading
between the lines, you realize it's all bullshit.
It's all bullshit.
I remember during COVID, like reading articles
and so-called scientific papers and public health policies
that were quoting.
The Imperial College would be quoting, for example, the who.
And the who would then reference Gavi.
Gavi would reference back to the who.
And then Imperial College would be citing this
as a scientific reference.
And all it was, was an opinion by the who
with massive conflicts of interest,
all the people who wrote it were working with Gavi
or being funded by Gavi or the Wellcome Trust.
And the people at Gavi are being funded
by Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and this and that.
And basically, everybody's patting each other's back.
Everybody's scratching each other's back.
And then everybody's like, you know, just referencing each other.
And then they produce this document that's scientific.
And it appears like it's peer reviewed.
But actually, if you look at the nitty gritty,
the nuts and bolts of it, it's the bullshit.
It's bullshit.
And so much of medicine,
so much of, it's all right, so much of,
but turn it off now, turn it off silent.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So much of the scientific research medical papers
is built on assumptions on flowery language, conflicts of interest.
And you can, you can find a medical paper
or a research paper to basically back any position that you have.
So if you believe in this, you'll find a paper to justify it.
If you don't believe in this, you'll find another paper to justify it.
But it's just, it's just nonsense.
But I have to give it to these scientists and these medics
and so-called experts.
They're really good at it.
And for the lay person, they go, oh, that's a very scientific.
Oh, look at all that jargon.
I don't understand that.
And the problem is most people don't understand what jargon is.
Every industry has its own medical language,
it has its own language, its own jargon.
You know, a car mechanic has jargon.
You know, the plumber has jargon.
If a plumber spoke to you on their jargon,
they would be like, oh, that's very impressive.
All they're describing is pipes, right?
It's the same with doctors and lawyers.
It's not actually complicated.
But by using jargon, you hide from other people
the knowledge and the truth.
And then you make them ignorant
and make yourself look more superior and intelligent.
It's a deliberate ploy.
So I like to keep things very simple.
And if someone explains something to me
that I don't understand, I blame it on them.
They haven't made it in a presentable fashion
that I can understand.
And either because they don't understand
that information themselves
or they're deliberately withholding the information
to mislead me or to dumbfound me
and to give themselves this superior air,
like look how intelligent I am.
And it's like, yeah, don't give it to me.
It's all nonsense.
Yeah, absolutely.
You're so, it's so right.
And there's a mixture of a lot of things going on there.
So like you said, there's the ego
and there's the stupidity
and there's the professional wanting to be,
like you said, wanting to be professional
and sound professional.
And it runs the spectrum from that
to the intentional misleading.
And there's the money, right?
So once, for instance,
and this is the example
that I've been researching,
once Polio started getting funded,
it was funded by a national foundation
that was created by Roosevelt
and his very close advisor,
who I think was a deep state person,
but I haven't done enough research to prove that.
But they created this national foundation,
which is exactly the same
as the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation of today,
where they poured all the money
into institutions, researchers and projects
that were about Polio.
And so Polio suddenly became
what all the researchers
who were doing any kind of epidemiology
or virology or anything like that,
then they only wanted to do Polio
because that's where the money is.
And, you know, the same thing,
it happens with all of these
so-called pandemic pathogens.
Even climate research.
And climate research, yeah.
So now, for example,
if you want a research grant,
not even in the science of climate,
like you're in sociology,
if you somehow reference climate into it,
or if you're an accountant
and you reference,
oh, how will this affect the economics
because of climate change,
suddenly you're getting research money for that.
Like, you don't even need to be
in the science to be getting money.
You just need to have your research project
hinting at climate change
and then, yeah, you're going to get money for that.
So I know this is a major corruption of academia
there's so many actually.
But one of them is the funding basis
and how you have these fads and fashions, yeah.
Yeah. And so the money is a big part of it.
And then what the money funds
in the worst case scenarios,
and this happened a lot during COVID,
is not only does it fund researchers
who are just in it for their careers
and for their own advancement
and their own ego,
but they also fund people
who intentionally publish things
that are lies and that are misleading.
So during COVID, that happened a lot.
So there are a lot of studies during COVID
that were intentionally misleading
about things like hydroxychloroquine
and the alternative treatments,
they definitely published.
Then they had to retract the surgery sphere,
I'm sure you know about.
But the ones where they lied so blatantly
that like they actually couldn't hide it.
And it was so corrupt
that they actually had to withdraw it.
Of course, nobody reported on it
and nobody knows that it was like the biggest
scandal in medical publishing history
were those studies that they had to retract.
But nobody knows about that.
And then there were the studies
where they started claiming, interestingly,
that COVID causes things like
heart problems in young people
and all of the things that the vaccines cause.
They started publishing lots of papers
trying to preempt that
and saying that they were all caused by COVID.
And those were definitely not innocent papers.
I mean, I think a lot of the papers
that were published were published
and still are and still are
are intentionally misleading
and untruthful.
And so the corruption of science,
you can be innocent about it
and say, oh, it's just money.
And that's bad enough.
That's bad enough
because you can't believe any study anymore.
But I think it's worse than that.
I think it's worse than that.
I think a lot of them are actually intentionally untruthful.
I agree.
I mean, a lot of the here in the UK,
you know, Imperial College, Oxford University.
These people,
I mean, the famous statistician modeler,
whatever his name is, that professor,
Niall Ferguson.
Neil Ferguson.
I mean, he must, must know
he's publishing a crock of shit.
I mean, he was wrong about BSc.
He was wrong about swine flu.
He was wrong about all these other things.
He's he's just wrong so consistently
and so out of proportion,
like crazy out of proportion.
He is so wrong yet for every single time
he is wrong,
he gets promoted
and he professionally goes up the ladder.
Like explain that to me in any other profession.
You name any other person
that you literally frack up,
waste people's money and times,
put people's lives in jeopardy
or whatever, kill animals by the tens of thousands
unneedlessly
and instead of losing your job
or being, you know, punished for
or whatever, you get promoted.
And now he's like this massive professor
with this huge department, big budget
and he's untouchable.
And you're just like,
what explain that?
So you, right?
So you, so my conclusion from that
is that he was paid from the beginning to do that.
Right.
So there's an opposite
side of the coin to
the stupidity of people.
And the opposite side of that coin is
whenever people say to me,
everybody was so stupid during COVID.
Deborah Birx was stupid
and Anthony Fauci was stupid
and they were all stupid.
They didn't understand the science
and they were, did bad public health
and it was all bad public health.
When you hear people saying
they're all stupid
about people like Neil Ferguson,
who is clearly a very smart guy
and part of the,
and has an enormous amount of resources
and institutional support behind him
and was able to get to that position.
Then I say, no, it's not because he's stupid.
He's not stupid at all.
He's extremely smart.
And Anthony Fauci is one of the smartest people
during COVID.
He's not stupid.
Deborah Birx is not stupid.
None of them are stupid.
They are intentionally,
they are smarter than you
because they're making you think
that they're stupid.
And that's a trick.
That's a trick that they're playing
and you have to be smart
to play that trick on the entire world
and to make the entire world think,
well, maybe they were just misled,
maybe mistakes were made,
maybe they were just stupid.
No, they're extremely smart,
clever, conniving, insidious
and we actually have to give them,
we have to take them very seriously.
So I take people like Neil Ferguson very seriously.
He's a very, very dangerous person.
And yeah, I can't wait to have you back, honestly.
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