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Is that the internet's not good?
What do you use? Riverside or something?
Yeah, it's a really good platform.
Isn't it?
It is when the internet is working.
Anyway, listen, Tim, thanks for coming.
My pleasure. No, it is great.
Did you enjoy lunch? Very nice.
Yes, you do know I don't do that for most people.
I feel honest. Thank you very much.
We did have to rush through it, though, a bit.
Yes, has a bit of an error on the motorway numbers.
Yes, down here.
It can easily be done.
M4, M40.
That's it.
You don't like these zeros?
Nah.
Right, we're going to dive in and we're going to talk about
lots of different things.
You've got a couple of things you're passionate about.
But we were talking about online behaviour.
Right, I just leave that.
Do you know what I'm talking about?
Yes, I think you might be referring to my past.
I'm going to make it so that it's past a tendency to be triggered occasionally.
Whether deliberately or not, it doesn't really matter,
but end up looking like a bit of a dick because I get passionate
and I'm passionate about saving the children, you know,
it's every minute of every day.
And so when people appear to be,
well, when they very cleverly press my buttons,
I have in the past responded with less than dignity
and made myself look a bit stupid and watered down what I'm trying to say.
So I reckon that's what you're referring to.
Do you know what?
That's a big man talking there.
You're a big man.
And honestly,
not most people wouldn't be able to say what you just said
with so much frankness and honesty.
Got a lot of respect for you.
Well, thank you very much. I can hardly deny it.
Well, a lot of people do.
Yes, dude. A lot of people.
A lot of people are would would be would struggle to deny that,
you know, wanting to run off with a 13 year old is a bit weird.
You know, they'll defend that.
So what you know, a lot of people do struggle
admitting where they've been wrong. You've seen that they'll struggle
to admit they did the wrong thing, taking the booster.
They'll struggle to say, oh, you know, yeah, I supported the genocide.
Shit, that was not right.
You know, people don't like to backtrack and admit
where they did something wrong. So that's what I'm saying.
You're a big man.
I'll take it.
There's a glass region kind of thing.
I like big man.
How's it going, big man?
So, yeah, I mean, just talking about that a bit more,
I was actually really glad to meet you in person on that protest march.
Yeah, that was nice.
It was nice, right?
Because I felt your energy.
We're all there wanting the same thing, freedom.
And you had a big smile on your face.
You were very personable, very warm.
And I'll be honest with you.
For me, it was a big contrast to your online persona.
Like your online persona, I didn't warm to it.
I was like, man, this guy's a bit of a dick, right?
Like he might be right, but he's a bit of a dick, right?
And then I met your person and I was like, man.
Yes, he's really nice guy.
Like he shouldn't do this.
He should be like this online.
And like, I'm not going to say I'm a saint.
Look, I see stuff and people say things to me.
And of course I'm human.
And I want to lash out.
And then I go, no, I'm just can't attend and just think about it.
Like rules number one and two, don't be a dick to don't take shit.
But letting them just mess off like that isn't taking shit.
Just don't let it get to you.
Because and this is what I say to my kids.
I say, like no one can make you feel sad or angry or happy.
Only you allow yourself these things.
You need to be the master of your emotions,
otherwise you're the slave to others.
Can't argue with that.
Yeah, no, I I I reckon I'm much better than I was a long time ago.
And it happens less often.
And each time I mean, I feel like a dick, you know,
when you do it, yeah, you're full of passion.
And you go da, da, da, da, da.
And you have this thing, you go triumph.
And then you go, what a dick, because, you know,
you've not achieved what you set out to achieve in any way.
You've not got a message across.
You just made a sort of enemy in a barrier and a wall.
Nothing. Nothing's gone forward.
You know, so and I don't even think most people are deliberately trying to
wind people up.
Just some people are just so deeply rooted in their camp
that when they hear something against it, they look,
everyone's in a cult.
Almost, right?
And having been in several cults, my amadea cult, you know,
the NHS cult, trust me, there's a lot of cults out there.
And when you're in a cult, you don't know it.
But when you're in a cult and someone attacks you, cult,
your automatic is to defend it and then attack back.
And I feel like a lot of the people out there who are angry
online or whatever are either bots or just genuine victims in themselves.
But there are some people who are very clever and use logical fallacies,
distraction techniques, want to trigger you.
And the classic ones are Zionists.
Like when you try and argue with logical reasons,
they'll suddenly bring up something completely bizarre and different.
And then you start arguing or getting emotionally upset.
And then suddenly the argument is all about that
and you being emotionally upset and blah, blah, blah.
And not the original problem that they were meant to discuss.
So it's totally deflection and then making you look stupid.
And then you lose all position of authority or, you know, respectability.
So I think that's why it's even more important to just stay cool and calm.
Because if you've got something really important to say in a message,
it's only going to get across when you're like that.
But it's not easy. I'm learning it too, man.
I'm six to one.
You'd have thought I might have learned it a bit earlier.
But, you know, I'm determined.
Yeah, as you say, counter ten is the first thing.
You've got your first feeling about how you want to react.
And it all floods over and you go, now, this point is incorrect.
And it's very important.
And this is why and and then you what you need to do is just step back and go.
Give it time and then come back and look and say, well, actually,
that was not a very good way of proceeding.
So it is, as you say, it's just about.
Not reacting in the moment without settling
into your deep self, your quiet voice
and not letting the monkey be pushed around, you know.
And then there's some wild stuff out there, right?
So I remember reading something
online saying, you and Mike Eden were the same people.
Actually, and they put the two voters together.
Mike Eden is simply Tim West.
But we've got.
You remember that?
Yes.
And it's just like, OK, another one of the reasons
why I was quite happy to meet you in person was like, yeah, you're not Mike Eden.
Like, no, you're real.
You're real, but it's wild.
It is wild.
It's cowboy territory.
And there's disinformation and information coming from all sides.
You've got to be so discerning.
I mean, this will come on to what I want to talk about,
about what you know, you know, and what he's actually
hypothesis story.
And most of the time, you know, we're inundated with stuff.
And I think we have to be very skeptical.
I mean, we're learning that stuff
that I would have scoffed at people questioning a few years ago.
I look at now and I'm beginning to question it.
I'm there. I'm there.
So like, basically, I had a guest.
He's from Australia, Tim, Tim Manger beat the reset.
And he's all about bullying gold coins, silver coins.
I thought he was going to talk about the gold price going up
and the silver and the economy is totally waiting for that.
And he was like, I'm in Europe.
I'm coming to London just to get on your podcast doc, make some room for me.
You see my calendar.
I was like, oh, jeez.
So I fed him in and I hit the record.
And for almost 90 minutes, he just spoke about Antarctica
and the ice wall and what lies beyond.
Like, I was like, what?
And like you, like a few years ago, I would have been like,
all right, okie dokie.
And whereas now I'm like, look, honestly, I don't know, dude.
Like the only thing I can be 100 percent sure about is like, what?
I don't know.
And there increasingly seems to be a lot of that.
And yeah, you know, I don't know if the Earth is flat or round,
but I questioned some of the things about the current
heliocentric model and whether that Earth is even the size that it is
and whether it's bigger or, you know, I just look, I don't know.
I don't I don't believe in the moon landing business.
You know, I've got this guy coming on my podcast on Sunday.
About Cibrelia.
Yeah, he's coming on on Sunday.
I'm looking forward to that.
Yeah, because again, like that was a given for most of my life.
We went to the moon and I was like, no, we didn't.
No, we didn't.
There's thousands and thousands of data points
that make it almost impossible or impossible.
And it's crazy, isn't it?
I mean, as you say, try talking about it
to anybody who hasn't been down any rabbit hole.
And they look at you as if you're completely mad.
You know, if you question viruses, they look at you to complete.
And if you question Covid, if you question masking,
that they just look at you as if you've.
You know, they don't know how to handle it.
It's as if you've just said, oh, my pet, Arvok can juggle now.
So they go.
Exactly that.
So I had that look that you just made right now yesterday.
So yesterday, I went with my friend, Kasha.
We're organizing retreats this summer
and we want to make sure that the food is really good.
So we've been to a few caterers to check the food
and we do this food tasting business.
So we're at this food tasting thing
and the owner is really anxious to please us, make sure everything's OK.
And she's, are we happy with everything?
And near the end, she goes, what do you do?
What do you do?
And I'm like, well, it's complicated.
Was an orthopedic surgeon.
I'm a podcaster. Oh, oh, great.
What's your podcast about?
And I went, oh, that's another interesting place.
And then my friend, Kasha, just piped up conspiracy theories.
And her face dropped and she was like,
oh, God, my son would love you. Oh, God.
What kind of conspiracies?
I went, everything.
And it's more about conspiracy realities.
But her whole demeanor changed from one of, you know,
I can't wait to please you.
I hope I get your business to.
Oh, my God, you're one of those freaking people.
I know. What do you do?
I know it's crazy.
Why call it theory? I mean, it's crazy, isn't it?
I mean, my new phrases, I would say,
well, I haven't said it used it yet, but I'll say,
ah, I hadn't realized that you were a conspiracy denier.
That's my new conspiracy denier.
Well, I say I'm a conspiracy realist.
I like the denial.
Yeah. Denier. Denier.
Back on them.
Yeah. Conspiracy denier.
Brilliant. That's great, isn't it?
I like that.
Well, I'm going to borrow that.
It came from a title of an article.
I think it was, was it unbecoming or was it never?
Never the lie thing.
Anyway, one of the subject, I think they call it
conspiracy denialism or something.
I think, yeah, it's a good for a conspiracy denial.
We get called deniers of everything.
Yeah, let's throw it back at them.
I love that.
Yeah, yeah, climate denier, Holocaust denier, COVID denier.
Yeah, let's do it.
Done deal.
OK.
All right, OK.
So I just want to know a little bit more about you,
the real Tim West and not fake Mike Gideon with a wig on.
So like, yeah, how did you get,
what's your relationship with Mike Gideon?
How did you get to be his right hand man?
Right hand man.
Like some people have called you as a tack dog.
This is, you know, going back.
I've been called Gideon's bulldog.
Yeah.
Equivalent of Huxley's, whatever, Darwin's bulldog.
T-H-D, Huxley, the terrible seed of all the trouble.
One of them.
Yeah, no, the thing is I was questioning COVID
and everything was very odd.
And I was, I saw Mike Gideon early on on the,
I think it was on the, that big symposium they had,
the Doctors for COVID Ethics 2021, I think it was.
And Stephen Frost, lots of people were on it.
The first time I saw like Matthew Eritt and lots of others.
Denny Ranko, I think was on.
Anyway, and Mike Gideon, I obviously really took to him
and he was with Robin Monotti at the time.
So I followed the Mike Gideon, Robin Monotti.
Telegram channel.
And then after a while, after a year and a half,
Mike split from Robin because they had slight differences.
Oh, no, it was about Gaza.
Yeah.
And also viruses.
Yeah, Mike said he didn't want to go.
Well, Robin, I spoke to Robin.
Well, it was two things, I think, because it was also...
I spoke to Robin and he said Mike wasn't happy
with the direction of travel that Robin was talking about.
Gaza and Palestine.
And Mike didn't want to get involved.
He didn't know much about it.
And I think that's not good enough for most people now.
I'm sorry, you need to know.
Like, it's pretty blatant what's going on there.
But anyway, carry on.
Yeah, I mean, this was four years ago, I think,
three years ago.
And there was another thing because, I mean,
to me, Robin is a brilliant man.
And he's done lots of so much good stuff
on the Gaza and many other issues.
But I mean, I find it very difficult
because with all his sense and all his brain
and all his intelligence,
from three years ago,
I had long, long conversations with him by text,
like hundreds and hundreds,
trying to get him to look at the evidence
on what virology is and what viruses are or aren't.
And I find it very difficult.
He just would never look.
And I know that was certainly for Mike
a very big thing too,
that he wasn't allowed on the channel to question viruses.
So that was also a big part of it for Mike, certainly.
I mean, and so anyway, he left.
He decided he's going to leave.
And so I wrote to him and I just said,
because I've been talking to Mike on telegram,
on DM for a while.
And I said, do you want me to set up your telegram?
Because he's not really one for all of that side of things.
He doesn't really like any of it.
So he said, I didn't think he'd say yes.
I mean, this is my hero.
I think he's one of everybody's heroes.
I don't have any heroes.
No, but you know, I mean, he's a man
of integrity and courage.
I trust more than anybody else
to be himself and to be true.
He's a good man.
He is a good man.
And so I didn't think there's any chance.
And then a week later, he said, yeah, go on then.
So I set up the telegram channel.
And then basically, although I effectively own it,
he has control over everything.
And then after a couple of years,
I started helping him with Substruct as well.
He had a Substruct account, but he wasn't doing anything with it.
So help Edity's posts.
So it all came just because I stuck my neck out
and thought, well, you never know.
And I was with Anna, my lovely girlfriend,
Anna, who was Mike's first admin.
I thought you were going to say Mike's first girlfriend.
I was like, what's going on here?
Yeah, sorry, Mike.
No, no.
Yes.
And she said, I'll give it a go, Tim, you never know.
And I thought, zero chance.
I mean, really, I thought I might as well have just written to...
I mean, I can't think somebody else.
It might as well just...
Anyway, it's no point thinking an example.
I just thought it wouldn't happen.
And it did.
And we've become very close.
And I really like him.
And I would do anything to get his voice out.
So that's how that happened.
And yeah, it's great, organic.
So tell me about your background.
So you're one of three brothers.
Did you all go to Cambridge?
Okay, I just want to do a quick shout out to Bruno B,
who has just recently become a paid subscriber.
Doc, you are doing tremendous work.
And I very much enjoy listening to your podcast.
Your speaking voice is honest, emotional, soothing, and warm.
You feature interesting guests.
You allow them to speak without interrupting.
Sometimes, buddy.
You ask intelligent questions.
Thank you.
The audio quality is very good.
What more could one ask for in a podcast?
Thank you, sir.
Oh, thanks.
And then there's Scott.
I've pretty much listened to every one of your podcasts.
A truly decent chap who makes decisions based on truth
and not how rich he can be by complying.
Keep doing what you do, Doc.
If my family needs advice or advocacy,
we will be looking.
We will be booking an appointment with you.
Love your work.
All the best, Scott.
Scott.
Love you, too, buddy.
And then lastly, Eric Jacobson.
Greetings, Doc Malick.
I've been subscribed free to you for about a year now,
but decided to go for a paid subscription.
Your interviews are top notch
and include so many interesting guests from all walks of life.
Looking forward to more good listening ahead.
Eric, thank you.
And honestly, all of you guys, I freaking love you.
Right.
Let's get into the show.
Bye.
We all went to Cambridge.
We all read maths.
I mean, your parents must have been super proud of you.
I mean, like all three boys in Cambridge.
That's pretty impressive.
Yeah, my dad went to Cambridge.
My dad's passion was cricket, unlike me.
But he went to Cambridge.
He went to Downing College, Cambridge.
And my middle brother.
They're both younger than me.
He went to Downing College, Cambridge.
So he really was the apple of my dad's eye.
Not really, but, you know, I mean,
I went to Pembroke College, Cambridge,
because I didn't get into Downing College, Cambridge,
because I didn't do well enough in the exam.
And really, if it hadn't been for the fact
that I played bassoon in the National Youth Orchestra
and bassoon is a very valuable commodity
in all the orchestras,
I went into the pool and Pembroke picked me out.
So I went to Pembroke.
Yeah, we all bad maths.
We all went to Cambridge, we all read maths
and we're all doing music.
Wow.
Yeah.
Maths must have been hard.
Maths is the universal language, isn't it,
of the universe?
Yes, well, it's funny, interesting, isn't it?
Because, I mean, at the time, see, in Cambridge,
there is kind of natural science courses,
but the real physics, the applied physics,
is actually part of the maths department.
And it's the applied maths department
and the pure maths department.
So I got into that
and one of my good friends of Steve Hawkins
was a guy who I worked with on my music theory.
But now, maths might be the universal language,
but all the fairy tales that are sprung around it
that are given to us,
I no longer feel quite secure about.
I mean, for a long time I've thought
the notion that there are separate particles
is ridiculous.
And so once you've got the idea
that there's no real separation,
then all the maps and models and things,
they're only going to be approximate.
You can't get at this stuff.
This amazing, whatever it is, reality.
And, you know, Einstein and all the quantum mechanics
looks so beautiful.
Oh, so it's beautiful.
Perfect structures and everything.
But when you look at it, it does appear
there's not actually that much backing it up.
The odd little experiment
that could be explained in other ways.
So I mean, like you, I don't know.
I don't know a lot of things.
I mean, my principal thing is
you have to be careful what you do know.
You give an information and facts from outside.
Some people call it received wisdom.
And you don't know whether it's facts or not.
So if you're really strict about it,
you know, you'd be very, very careful.
But I mean, the things you can extend it to the world.
For example, here's a fact I know
as a hard fact that nobody has ever
presented me with any information
for the existence of viruses.
And I've set up the virus confirmation fund.
Yeah, talk about that for a second before you move on.
It's just that the second half of the episode
is behind the payroll.
So I want you to quickly mention this.
Oh, OK. Let's do that.
See how generous I am.
That's very kind.
Yeah.
Well, I was getting tired in conversations, basically.
People saying, oh, there is evidence for viruses.
And I was going, well, actually there isn't.
You know, here's all a load of information
about all the stages of the,
the seven stages of the virus isolation process.
And here's all the details about it.
Look, there's no evidence there.
And people would say, well, there's evidence there.
It's up there.
So I thought, right, OK, I'm going to take a,
take a run with the flag from Stefan Lanker,
who did it with the measles virus.
And he said, oh, 100,000 euros
through the various measles virus exists.
And that's the story.
It was overturned in the court.
But I decided to run with it on a much,
on a slightly different setting.
So anybody hands any information
that any virus has ever existed.
And the currently 77,000 pounds is yours.
I mean, I offer this to, to the readers.
The 77,000 pounds.
The 77,000 pounds now in the virus confirmation fund.
Lots of people pledging money.
So it's saying, I solemnly promise to pay them money
if you find evidence that any virus has ever existed,
rather than being what it actually factually is,
which is total fiction.
There's no evidence for it.
It's a story.
It's a story with nothing to back it up.
And if you think otherwise, claim the 77,000 pounds.
So certainly I had something to come back with.
I could say, OK, if there's evidence, claim,
and nobody has,
one person started to claim it,
Dr Hill, and then disappeared.
When he realized he couldn't.
So I set it up as a flag to say, look,
here's a fact virus is a fictional.
OK, this is a fact because otherwise somebody
would claim the money, even if only to make a point.
And people come back with lots of different things
that usually they ignore it.
This is brilliant.
So I say sometimes they come back with a comment reply
that doesn't even mention it.
That's the most common way of dealing with it.
Another one is people say, I don't need your money.
Well, that's a bit of a cop out.
Yeah, there's a cop out.
Isn't it?
I mean, give it to charity.
You know, it's the point.
Surely if you want to save the children,
if you believe viruses are real
and that we're dangerous nutters saying they don't exist,
then surely you would want to shut down this crazy crowd
straight away, claim the money.
So that's why I set it up.
Just to make it clear that viruses are fictional.
I mean, this is where I slightly take a different position
from Jamie Andrews, who I love all his work.
It's brilliant.
His position is that he says he's more bloody minded.
And instead of saying there's no evidence for viruses,
he's just saying viruses don't exist.
And I understand why he's doing that.
It's like if you say to a child, Santa Claus doesn't exist.
You know, obviously strictly scientifically,
you can't say that because there's no evidence for Santa Claus,
but you don't know.
I mean, it's feasibly possible.
There's Santa Claus living in a hut
and no one's ever seen him.
So strictly scientifically, you can't say Santa doesn't exist.
You say Santa is fictional.
There's no real world evidence to back him up.
It's pure story.
So I understand why Jamie says viruses don't exist.
I prefer to say factually viruses are fictional.
So that's a bit of a long ramble, but it's very important to me
because once you stop feeling the outside world,
your health issues massively improve.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So guys, ages since I looked at the no virus virus thing,
do you know, you see my podcast?
I've seen lots of your podcasts.
You see the topics I cover, yeah?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I make it very clear to people I'm a podcast host.
I discuss lots of things.
My job is not to interrogate,
be the investigative journalist.
That's not my gig.
My gig is to give a platform to people.
Yeah, exactly, yeah.
But when I've looked at it, I think there's truths in both.
Like, yeah, the studies that they do for virology,
I mean, it's all like witchy sprue,
a bit of bovine serum, a bit of mashed up kidney,
and then you mash everything up.
You get all this necrotic tissue,
and then you go, ah, there you go.
There's a virus.
I'm like, huh?
But then equally, they're looking at something.
They're saying there's something under the microscope
and they've got these pictures,
and then there's these patterns of disease.
And then you think, how's it?
Well, measles follows a certain thing.
It's got a same rash.
Measles is not distinguishable from smallpox,
rubella, chickenpox, monkeypox.
There is no clinical way of distinguishing those.
The spots and everything haven't got a difference.
Measles, you don't get the vesicle type thing
that you get with chickenpox.
If you look up all the clinical definitions,
there is actually no clinical way.
They are all, as far as I'm concerned,
they're all under far as German medicine.
Dr. Hamer's concerned.
These are all the same thing.
It's just a body has a son.
No, no, no.
Okay, but let me finish.
What I'm trying to say is they do.
There are differences between mumps and measles
and chickenpox.
You know when you get chickenpox.
It's very different from measles.
I've had it.
It's very different.
It looks different.
What I'm trying to say is there's patterns
and people do get colds and do catch colds.
Do this, though.
I'm sorry.
I mean, we're having a robust...
I know, I know.
Listen.
Okay.
Count to 10.
Don't get triggered.
I'm not triggered, but...
I'm just saying.
Yeah.
With my own world experience,
my wife just got the cold.
Literally the next day,
my eldest daughter did
and every other kid did as well.
I got a little tickly throat
for about a day
and then I got better.
But everybody got something.
I don't know what it is.
It could be the frequencies
we're all emitting.
I don't know.
But there's something.
In my 50 years,
I've seen people catch things
and I get very careful
where you say,
everything's a lie.
I get that.
Well, most things are a lie.
But then you start discounting everything.
I don't have to discount.
No, no, no.
But what I'm saying is I had
Jamie Andrews and he was like,
at one point in this virus,
no virus debate,
he was like,
do you know what?
Is there anything such as proteins?
Is there anything contagion at all?
Like bacteria don't cause any problems.
Forget viruses.
Bacteria don't even cause problems.
No, they don't.
And then...
So I'm not there.
I'm sorry.
I'm just...
Again,
as an orthopedic surgeon,
I've seen sepsis.
I've seen bacteria.
I've seen UTIs.
I've seen all these problems.
You've also seen a house on fire
surrounded by firemen.
And you've never assumed
that the firemen caused the fire.
So if you had a bacterial infection
past pouring out your leg,
would you not take antibiotics?
Absolutely not.
No situation would I take antibiotics now.
I do not think there's any situation.
I mean,
Sam Bailey's got a whole video on sepsis.
I personally think antibiotics are...
Well, I say never.
Never.
There are cases.
If it's...
The bacteria are there
to clear up all the crap.
All of the...
Whatever it is.
Take away the tissue that's been re...
Because when we have a biological
healing program,
you have to restructure tissue,
and then you have to get rid of it later,
like doing it in your kitchen.
And also you've got toxins and things to take away.
So if you've got a really
massive job,
you might have a large amount of bacteria.
And there might be a situation
because of the severe toxicity
that antibiotics might be useful.
I'm prepared to admit.
But in the vast majority of cases,
I certainly wouldn't
because the pus is the final healing stage.
It's the stuff being got out.
That's...
That's our body doing its brilliant job.
This is how I see it now, anyway.
Of course, everyone sees things differently.
I mean,
if I could just swing back to the
contagion thing.
I mean, the other thing I like to say is...
People say to me,
oh, I've seen contagion.
It's happened a lot.
I've seen it.
And I'll say, well,
if it does happen a lot,
and people have seen it,
can you explain why for 6,000 years,
no culture anywhere on the world,
massive longhunt,
thousand long medical systems,
China,
no culture anywhere ever noticed.
That does not seem likely to me.
I think contagion is a lens we look through.
We were given this crazy idea a couple of hundred years ago.
Pluck from the air.
Absolute madness.
Have people not talked about pestilence
and plagues and God knows what else?
Yeah, but look at what these things meant
and what contagion meant.
Contagion was to do with fear,
but when it's like in Roman times,
there's a whole article on the...
Yeah, all the so-called words of plagues
and what they mean.
The problem is words get used for lots of things,
like for example,
smallpox meant everything
that was covered by chickenpox measles.
There's only one word for it,
so everything gets called smallpox.
And every time you go forward,
words get slightly changed and adapted.
I don't...
I mean, what really makes you ill?
The books by Dawn go through all the plagues
and the so-called plagues, to look at the situation.
I mean, and the other thing also is
the final thing is 220 years of transmission experiments
with zero successes.
I mean, that's a big thing.
They've tried to get infection.
There's a common cold unit.
They had to give it in the end.
The Rosini experiments.
So my contention is that I can understand
why, if you're told,
that you can catch something,
that it looks like it.
And again, you know, what about scurvy?
Scurvy, for 50 years,
they were convinced it was contagious.
Why?
Because one sailor got it,
another sailor got it.
Nobody thinks scurvy is contagious now.
So I'm just...
I'm sitting in a position where I think
there's a lot of truth in terrain theory.
Maybe there's some truth in germ theory.
Maybe it's somewhere in the middle.
Maybe there might be even another third reason
why we get what we get,
what the cold is and what influenza is.
Maybe influenza is about the season
and the position of the sun and magnetic fields.
I'm open to all of this,
but I'm not quite willing to say
there's no such thing as viruses.
Because I also struggle with the idea of
what is everybody working with?
What is everybody working with in all these labs?
Getting, I don't know, vectors,
I don't know, viruses,
putting genetics, things into it.
What are they playing with?
If it's all nothing,
it can't all be lies.
I know doctors.
Have you read the papers?
I know doctors.
Friends pre-COVID,
whose PhD was putting in genetic
sequences into viruses and that.
They weren't lying.
They wouldn't make the stuff up.
It's not about lying.
I'm just saying.
It's not about lying, no.
Definitely not about lying.
I mean, I don't think
people are lying at all.
They're given the protocols.
If you talk to any virologist,
you get down to the brass tax,
which is, you have to just believe this stuff.
If I take,
I don't know if you've seen my...
Isn't that several billion people on this planet?
You have to believe in, you know,
the trilogy, the trinity.
Exactly.
You just have to believe.
Exactly.
And so I say, get rid of all belief.
I have total skepticism.
Look at the evidence.
So I do not say viruses don't exist
because that is a story
which can't be proved.
I say a fact.
Viruses are fictional.
And they'll prove it because nobody can claim...
Nobody can offer any evidence for viruses.
And we've had centuries.
Nobody...
There's not one piece of evidence so far for any virus.
These things are built in a computer.
They're a completely fictitious genome
built in a computer.
They've never been seen in any fluids
from natural bodies.
They have to do these ridiculous
witch's brew experiments.
I do not think there's any such thing
as contagion anymore.
I don't think there's anything as path...
I don't think there's anything in nature
out to get us small than a fountain.
There's toxins
which are not active beings.
And then there's active beings.
I don't believe any of the...
I don't have any evidence
that any of them are out to get us at all.
So I think it's all about balance.
So we have bacteria in our body all the time.
We have them in the eyeballs.
We have internally.
We have the biomes everywhere.
Not just the gut.
Everywhere there's a biome.
And we live in a very symbiotic relationship
with bacteria.
In fact, we've got more bacteria in our body
than human cells,
which is kind of bizarre.
It's insane.
And we're surrounded by it in our food
and the dirt and the muck, everything.
But I just feel like sometimes
if you are weakened
physiologically stressed
some deficiencies
or whatever,
if there's a build up
and then the balance is broken
then the bacteria can kill us a problem
and then cause infection.
I think that's what it is.
And I've seen patients who are immunosuppressed
where a bacteria that wouldn't cause a problem
for you and me
then suddenly does cause a problem.
Well, it would, of course.
If you attack the body,
there's no...
I don't have any evidence for the immune system
because there's nothing we're immune to.
There's no specific antibodies
have ever been seen.
Again, it's all story.
You've got to separate
what actually has been seen and known
and what is conjecture
and what is story that wrapped around the facts.
But no one's seen an atom.
Do you think there's no such thing as atoms?
I think it's...
Or oxygen.
I think it's very unlikely
there's such a thing as an atom.
I don't think reality is all separated
into tiny bits
and even quantum mechanics and relativity
don't, you know, talk about
an electron extending with a probability field
to infinity
and it's a one quantum field wave.
I don't like those things
but I definitely think the atom...
The separatist...
The separatist is breaking down
of the world into little bits.
It is only model and not reality.
Okay, so I agree that the model
might not be 100% the reality
but I love these models
even if they're 99% accurate.
I love them.
And I'll explain why.
So, for example, the models
of the periodic table and the atoms
is why they can get petrol out,
oil out to the ground
and then put them through refineries and refractions
and make plastics and polymers
because of the number of carbon molecules
and the number of hydrogen molecules
and all the chemical reactions
are based on these models
of electrons and protons and neutrons
to create all these substances
that we see around us.
All around us.
So, like, if these models weren't fairly accurate
we wouldn't be able to do
all of the things that we do in the world today.
If they were all wrong
and they didn't exist
how can we do this?
How can we make plastics?
How do we make medicines?
How do we make insulin?
Which is a protein.
How do we make all that?
If it doesn't exist.
So, you know, when...
No, it didn't say it didn't exist.
No, no, no. When Jamie Andrews said to me
oh, there's no such thing as proteins
I was like, what?
And there's no such thing as DNA.
I was like, what?
Because the recombinant insulin,
you know, is made by DNA sequencing
and then they make it
and then it's a protein.
And if there's no protein and no recombinant
what's this thing that they've made
that can cure people's diabetes?
Like, I don't understand that.
Okay, well, I mean, I've put like,
oh, God, thousands of hours into it now
and go into all of the...
Well, all I would say is that
no matter how good a story is
I mean, look, and here's my...
Here's an example, okay.
I have got a story for you
that on a very specific day of the year
a chap comes down the chimney
and puts presents under trees in houses
and then disappears and people wake up
and find the presents.
Now, I could go to every house on October 3
and there's no trees in front.
I can go to every house on 25th in the morning
and I can find presents under trees
and I could say, oh, you see,
my story fits really well.
Just because the story fits really well
it doesn't mean to say
that it's actually what's going on
and so people made lots of stuff
for a long time, metals, smelting,
all sorts of stuff, long before atoms were thought of.
So you don't necessarily...
You've got to be careful about
what is actually extraneous story
even if it's useful.
I mean, I like stories.
Okay, I like your stories
but answer this one.
So DNA, right?
I've just looked it up.
Okay.
The DNA, right, for insulin,
it's been identified.
They've done the genetic sequence.
They've inserted it into a plasmid,
E. coli or yeast cells.
They've grown their insulin factories.
They've then created the insulin protein, right,
which is then extracted and purified
given to humans since 1982
and now it means that they don't need
to have pig or cow pancreas insulin.
If DNA, genetic sequencing, all that
and proteins don't exist,
how is this possible?
What have they done?
First of all, I'm not saying they don't exist.
Okay, okay.
Well, I'm just saying...
Jamie Andrews said they didn't
and I was like...
Well, this is where I slightly differ from Jamie.
I mean, I might have got it wrong
but I'm pretty sure that's what he said to me.
No, I think...
This is where I start to differ from Jamie
because I prefer just to say
be careful what you know
and to say something doesn't exist,
you actually can't say that.
You can't say...
I can't say unicorns don't exist.
I mean, it's practical to say
I'm going to act as if there's no unicorns
but you can't say...
I mean, I think his work is...
I mean, you talked about the artefacts.
His work with...
By the way, I love Jamie.
I think he's doing great work.
Yeah, I mean, his artefacts showing
that every single...
You talk about viruses,
every single thing that they've seen
and shown,
they all came up in these
tissue culture experiments with nothing added.
Absolutely sterile, pure tissue...
tissue culture
and all of the art they saw, HIV, polio, measles
because it's just these things.
That's all they do.
They point at pictures
and then they use the ridiculous
deep metagenomic sequencing stuff
to find things which...
It's a crazy procedure.
So where I come from is
I'm like two things can be true at the same time
that they do complete batshit crazy stuff
that's not true.
But it could be that there is still something there.
It could be.
This is where I am
and that's why I don't want to be like,
it's this.
Look, I'm just saying.
I remember, like I said to you,
in the beginning, not anymore,
you were quite feisty.
Yeah, okay, so you're still...
Dude, try not to.
Some of the no-virus camp people
have been the most trolling, aggressive, rude
people that I've ever come across.
They make the COVID-plandemic acolytes
look like nothing.
I've never had anyone who's had a booster
say to me, you fucking dumbwit,
you idiot, you virus, whatever.
I've never had...
But the no-virus people?
Oh my God.
Personal DMs, publicly.
You're like, what is wrong with you guys?
I think...
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I can think I can explain that really
because when you first come
to understand
and as I say,
this is why I set up
the virus confirmation fund
as a hard proof
that viruses are fictional.
I mean, it's not in doubt.
There's no debate.
There's no virus, no virus debate.
It's a hard fact,
viruses are fictional
or somebody would present
evidence for viruses and nobody can.
So when you first understand
the power that comes
from this contagion myth
and how all tyranny is,
how the whole COVID thing
leading to the next tyranny,
how the vaccine passports
are all linked in with the digital ID.
I think there's two central
pranks in there, tyranny.
There's the contagion lie,
which as far as I'm concerned,
there's never been an evidence
that has ever caught anything from anybody
and it's a really dangerous idea to believe it
and the climate lie are the twin pillars.
So when you first come across understanding
and I would say it is
or being aware of the facts
that there's no evidence for viruses,
and you realise the power it has
and you realise you see people walking
and saying, oh, I caught this yesterday
and then people having no SIBO effects
and all that and you see the tyranny
then you can initially get a bit upset.
No, because there's so many equivalents.
Bart SIBO will say the exact same thing.
People are still believing that we've gone to the moon,
they're teaching our kids we've gone to the moon
but the moment you identify that we never went to the moon
everything falls apart.
They spent billions and the media lies
and the journalist lies and the politician lies
and the NASA's lying and the scientist lies.
They're all a bunch of frickin' liars
and you can get angry about that
or then you can say, government's not our friend.
They're tyranny, they're a bunch of mafia
and we need to wake up and you believe in the government.
There's so many examples of that.
I could go on and mass migration is real.
Oh my God, don't you know they're taking over
all the white people, blah, blah, blah,
and if you just woke up and found out the truth
then look, everyone's got something
they're passionate about.
Just calm the earth down.
This is not how you win friends
and influence people.
There's a lot of things that are
we are passionate about
whether it be big pharma
whether it be vaccines, virology
whether it be the moon landing
whether it be the government and the tyranny of the government
whether it be taxation, the cruelty of taxation.
There's the indoctrination
for education.
There are so many evils
and everyone
could argue the same as you.
If you believe in this, if everybody
just knew this
it would be game over
and it's not that simple.
No, I agree it's not.
And that's not a reason to be rude
and offensive and troll other people.
And I'm just saying
amongst the no virus camp
it's the gold medal for those guys.
Everybody needs to tone it down.
We're on a journey.
I just told you two years ago
if someone said to me about flat air
I've been laughing my head off.
Now I'm like maybe, interesting.
You're on a journey.
But by ridiculing
insulting and swearing at me
Absolutely.
You're not going to help.
And then you almost think, is this a sigh up?
Well, and that's the other thing.
I reckon there could easily be people
doing it
because of
as far as I can see because of the central
important because the thing is
Sasha Latipova
she has a
feeling
coming from Richie's Nobel Prize
in 1913
the vast majority of illness
is from anaphylactic pathways
set up from vaccines
and that
everywhere you look vaccines
are a huge cause
of endemic
damage
and vaccines
Covid masks
Okay, so I
it's all based
so that's what, you know, I agree
there's no point ever
So I was in Africa in 1998
in the summer for three months, okay
Dude, I saw a lot of things. A lot of the people
had not had vaccines and they were still sick
I saw a lot of people sexually transmitted diseases
were quite promiscuous in Tanzania
and they were spreading it
and this is what I mean
I just saw things
people with infections
ulcers
weird stuff
because you know what, they cut themselves
and they're in the bush and then suddenly something's happening
their fits falling off
they didn't have antibiotics
they didn't have any vaccines
they didn't have vaccines
but things were there
infections were there, STDs were there
and you know
I don't think there's any evidence that anybody has ever caught
a sexual disease
What? Not one shred of evidence
and I have looks
and there's lots and lots of lots of presentations on this
just because
you go and sleep
with somebody
who is labelled with a disease and you come back
and you get these symptoms
which are often interestingly
if it was a disease, why is it not more over the body
why is it often in the
localised place?
What do you think is going on then?
Well, I am a massive massive...
Dude, I saw sores and pus and plus jewels
and a vagina and penis
which if someone had
a discharging vagina
you wouldn't have sex with her, would you?
Well, I may not have sex with her
but that's not because I'd be worried about catching something
What? No, because I know there's nothing to catch
Right
What's he called? W
The guy who invented the phrase fight or flight
He was right at the door
and there was a connection to his anxiety and disease
What's his name? Cannon
WB Cannon, I think his name was
Anyway, so he worked in Africa
and his
his famous thing was
it's called zombie death
basically and he would look at what's going on
where people would get cursed and die
and obviously
it's no sebo effect
his assistant
was a very kind of educated man
and his assistant
was cursed because
these guys are basically the slightly undermining
the Billy Shaman's
work
Right, you're wrong Lee
because, you know, they're saying
there's nothing to fear
there's no curses
Anyway, so the Billy Shaman cursed him
and the guy started to wither away
and within a month
there was no AIDS then
but he was described as like an AIDS patient
absolutely almost dead
and so Cannon went to
the village chief
and said you talked to your shaman and tell him
to absolutely convinced
my assistant
that he was just waving a bone and doing magic tricks
smoke and mirrors
theater
or your village will not get more supplies
and so he did
and then he talked to the guy
and within days he's getting better
so what I'm saying is
according to Dr. Hamer
and other
but Dr. Hamer's principal in Germanic New Medicine
the principal cause
of long term conditions in our society
biological shocks
have
special healing programs
and the final stage of the healing program
is what is called symptoms
that when the final
stuff get pushed out the skin
encapsulated
whatever
and this final healing stage
gets called disease or symptoms
by western medicine
when it's just the body doing its job
with a small handful of elimination
pathways
it's a big show
I've read about German New Medicine
I think there's elements of truth to it
that trauma
psychological trauma can influence a lot of
your ill health
but I'm not 100% there again
I think there's elements of truth
and two things can be true
like you said no SIBO
and also I think placebo
I was fascinated by that
as a medical student they'd be like
if you do a placebo and 50% people get better
just from a sugar pill
why are we not investigating this more
51% for the drug
exactly
why are we not looking at what is it
about placebo that can cause
this improvement
how can you have your own placebo
we need to learn that
no one's interested in that
so I agree
but again two things can be true
that there can be plus SIBOs
and no SIBOs but then equally
there can be
things, disease states whatever
that can influence your infection
so whatever and cause you to be poorly
I'm on that position and I'm just saying
everybody needs to calm down
not get too angry on this side
not get too angry on that side
everybody's in their little wee journey
this is talking to you much better than talking to anybody else
because it does
because people are
passionately attached
to what I would call the
the core religious type things
really
quasi-religious type things
and for a lot of people
even questioning
contagion
or virology
they get very very upset
and you think no vice people upset with
if you go to a total normie
and try to have a conversation about this
they get very very upset because
it's part of their will and who they are
since I was born I've learned this
are you what else you're telling me
my experience is that they shut down
and just don't want to engage with you
whereas the no-virus people attack you
there's a difference
but I'll give an example
surgery 25 years as a surgeon
if you don't give patients
antibiotics at surgery
a lot of them get infection
and if you give pre-op
antibiotics like when you do mito implants
whatever the infection
drops way down
but equally I want to tell you another thing
so post-op
same patients
out of 100 patients
they'll always be one or two who get an infection
and the patient would always turn around and go
oh did you do a bad job
or if they came and saw me because they had
seen another surgeon developed an infection
then came to see me for a second opinion
did my surgeon do a bad job
and I'd be like not really
this is about you and your body
your physiology, your health
the robustness of your immune system
the stress that you've got going on
all of these things
we do the same thing for every patient
why is it someone gets an infection and someone doesn't
there's something unique about that patient
their psychology
that individual
so it's more nuanced than just give them
antibiotics or whatever
some things about them that their immune system
is not able to cope
but to be fair
this narrative
assumes
that
the firemen are infecting
rather than being there to help
rather than being pleomorphic
entities which have adapted
to the exact shape and number as required
for the task in hand
to do the job now yes you can kill them off
I would say
we survived despite that
not because of it
often
I think there are some
I've seen people
with sepsis die
it's not nice
I'll tell you what it is
I was in two examples
Banda Atchie after the tsunami
and the following year
Kashmir earthquake
so these people have been in floods
tsunamis, earthquakes
biological shocks
and they've had rubble on them
they've got open wounds
they got infected
by the time they got to the clinic
it was too late they're running fevers
there's pus pouring out, redness
there's septic septicemia
it's just too late
and they go into shock
and they die
why though
because they've got an open wound
they've got inspection
but how can you be sure
that Dr Hamer's
many many thousands and thousands
of brain scans
are not accurate in determining
but then the ones that do get to us
and we get to clean their wounds
take them to theatre, give them antibiotics
which I did in Indonesia
and got them on the drip
they survived
but how do you know that's not to do
with the fact that they're
if Dr Hamer's right
the deep biological shocks
if
so I'm not saying how do you know
I'm not saying right or wrong either way
I'm saying this is where I lean
I don't know anything
so I'm just saying if you're in a car crash
and you're literally thrown out the car
dragged over the tarmac
you've got an open wound
the end of your femur sticking out
you've got mud in there
you're not going to have it taken to theatre
to wash out, give them antibiotics
absolutely have it washed out
not give them antibiotics
from where I stand now
from looking at all the papers on sepsis
because there's a whole list
given in the Sam Bailey
article and video
going back saying
no I wouldn't, I wouldn't
because I mean the STT thing
if you go about the STT thing
how come some people
are incredibly promiscuous
just massively promiscuous
they go
all over the place with everybody
and they never ever get an STT
whereas one person
does one thing
after
30 years of marriage
and they have a
something to work on it
it might not even be that serious
it might not even get close
and they come up with what is called an STT
I've no idea about this
okay well I
think STTs are largely shame
really
yeah
this fits
oh should I just mention my
beyond certainty
I'll put it on the show notes
but say again
it's called beyond certainty
because I think certainty is the problem
we get rid of certainty
and just deal with truth and stories separately
stop being certain about things
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the viewer and or listener
please do your research
and use your disarmament
it is not my intention to harass
intimidate, offend, defame
conspire, blackmail, coerce
or cause anxiety, alarm
or distress to any man or woman
and the information presented here is done so
with peaceful and honourable
intentions
enjoy folks