Hello and welcome to the King Heroes Journey podcast.
My name is Beth Martens and my mic was muted.
So thanks.
In case you don't read lips and sound is fantastic.
We were just having a little bit of go around in the back.
I think I sent Joel to the wrong platform
for some reason, he's given me the thumbs up.
So he looks like he's ready to go in a few minutes
or one minute.
And so I will just take a minute myself
and introduce if you're new
to the King Heroes Journey podcast.
This is a place where I host the brave souls.
Those ones.
Now we think we're all brave souls
until you come up against something
that's really frightening or humbling or too intense.
They're gonna talk about intensity a lot.
I do have about a hundred questions for Joel.
If you're not familiar, no, don't be scared or anything.
Joel, if you have a time limit, by the way, let me know.
And I have had the great privilege of watching Joel
be interviewed by many people.
At first I was kicking myself not to have him on sooner,
but in fact, it's been fantastic to get to know him
through a number of people's eyes.
And so this is gonna be a really great subject.
If you're not familiar with him,
you can learn more about him.
And I'm gonna share out his YouTube channel
where he also hosts people for interviews.
I am going to be on his channel on,
we're recording for Monday.
So you can find him there and on Facebook,
here and on Instagram, here.
And if people are in the chat
and you wanna come and say hello, I would love that.
Oh, hello to Rajat Bombatkar.
How did I mangle your name there?
Hello, Mike New, nice to see you.
Fantastic, I'm glad you're here.
He said, keep up the good work, thank you.
I appreciate that very much.
Well, I am beside myself excited to talk to Joel today.
Oh, Stacy Sunshine is here, fantastic.
Please share this out, honestly.
It's, I try not to get discouraged
by the amount of shadow banning or whatever it is.
I'm not in the cool club or something going on here,
but if you find value in this work that I put out,
I also, by the way, do a bath of fresh air.
It's coming up tomorrow already
and we're gonna talk about natural health cults,
which are very prevalent
and I feel incredibly passionate about sharing about,
hello, M, nice to see you as well.
I'm sorry, I didn't get back.
It's been going high speed, creating stuff.
So if you're not familiar with Joel,
he is a personal empowerment mentor
and shamanic dreaming arts teacher.
I'm gonna talk a little bit about my run-in
with shamanism, which was very short
and I'm happy to have been reintroduced
to something that re-sparked me.
Through online courses, one-on-one mentoring
and in-person workshops, Joel trains people
in a highly effective way to reclaim vital energy
and attention utilizing the toll tech knowledge base.
These are powerful non-linear redistribution techniques
that guide and support students
in discovering clear purpose, increasing awareness,
getting grounded, reclaiming focus
and accessing strong intent.
Joel is also an excellent listener
and mirror offering practical but magical solutions
to life's challenges.
So without further ado, I'm gonna bring him on.
Hello, Joel, welcome and nice to meet you.
Thank you, yay.
Thanks for having me on, I really appreciate it
and looking forward to getting into it with you.
Yeah, likewise, likewise.
It's, I bet you've had this experience many times
over the last little while
where people think or feel like they know you
and you don't know them.
I know it very well from my side as well
and I've learned to just roll with it.
Oh yeah, they think they know everything.
They kind of do in my case
because I'm pretty transparent when I share
and I notice you have been as well.
Yeah.
So I forgot to ask you, do you have a time limit today?
No, we're all good.
Okay, that sounds good.
So we usually go at least 90 minutes, maybe two hours
and then like I said, I do have quite a list of questions.
It's stupid big, but I bet a lot is gonna come out.
I won't have to ask every single one of them.
It's a privilege to be able to talk to you myself
because those resources are there
and I love listening in and taking it in.
When I heard you, I had a natural bias.
I'll just start by introducing it this way.
I had a natural bias against shamanism for two reasons.
One is that I did actually in university study
the work of Don Juan and Carlos Castaneda.
I learned that Carlos Castaneda had been given a PhD
and then they tried to take it away from him
but they couldn't find him.
So maybe I'll get you to speak about that a little bit.
That is of no bearing to me whatsoever
because academia doesn't hold a lot of credibility
in my mind and then I traveled to or in my university days
I also did a directed study in shamanic initiation
and that was very, very interesting for me
but I realized very soon that I didn't want to just study
about these things.
I wanted to have the practical experience myself.
So I started traveling.
I was in Nepal.
I hooked up with a junkery or a hunkery
or I think it's more like junkery actually from that language.
And I had one lesson from him.
I started to have nightmares.
I got scared and ran away.
And I ended up going off into more of like the say
Vedic side of spirituality for my first run in India
which seemed more manageable
but lo and behold, all of the roads to truth
lead to the same places.
So I had this bias until I heard you speak.
And I saw how you are coming to,
now this is putting myself on a pedestal
but coming to the same truths I've come to
from different angles and truth is truth, right?
So no matter how you come to it,
it should be still true, it should still be the same.
So thank you for opening this door for me.
Wow, thank you Beth.
That's amazing.
Yeah, the Toltec teachings are different
than typical shamanism.
And they're called the learned ones
or the scientists of energy.
And they discover that there are truths, energetic facts
and that we actually live in a world
where people don't want that to be the case.
They want it to be all something you can argue about.
And therefore we can all remain confused and separate
and not able to just come to a common denominator.
And so this is very confronting work to realize
that there are actual things that are true,
that we can anchor to those truths
and that we can transform because of them.
But they're magical, they're not linear.
They're powerful energetic understandings
that happen in the realm of silent knowledge
when you're really quiet and silence is present
and you're able to understand things differently
and definitely a benefit you're in your mind
trying to document or control the information.
So that's where the benefit of shamanic training
can be very helpful is you can reach
these non-ordinary states of perception
where waves of understanding come in
and it pulls you out of hypnosis.
But unfortunately the spiritual community is filled
with people that are caught in social power
trying to appear a particular way to their followers
and are unwilling to come out of hypnosis
to the degree that's needed.
So shamanisms become like a messy thing
where people aren't willing to turn and face
and come to terms with what's really going on
and it's more spiritual than it is like practical.
And but the Toltecs rather than being spiritual
are energetic and practical.
And so they are really offering something potent
but even my people, my teachers that followed that stuff
ended up going along with all the nonsense.
So it's really disturbing that, yeah,
how powerful of the hypnosis is across the board.
Indeed, yeah.
And that was one of the things I also share in common
is some history with a cult or two.
And gurus and all of that kind of thing.
So I'm glad you alluded to that.
Just say hello to a few more people in the chat.
Thank you.
Kai Ramon, 11 of our time with people's names on screen.
Joe Potter, you have to forgive me
if it looks like I don't recognize you too
because I usually have a real name in my head
and I don't hold onto screen names.
And looking forward to this, Stephanie, welcome.
He shape shifted right out of here.
Not sure what that was about.
Oh, the trolls be out.
Okay, does anybody have a wrench around here
to help me with that?
Cause I'm gonna wanna focus big time.
Hello, Maya, nice to see you.
So, oh yeah, there's a troll.
Okay, so we'll see if it gets out of control.
Normally I don't even attract the trolls.
I feel pretty happy about that.
Yeah, yeah, I think that I am so much myself.
I don't try to say things that,
oh, I won't say this because so-and-so
is not gonna like me or anything like that.
And then they choose themself
to just get out of the zone
because it's too much for them.
Hello, Jenny G, nice to see you.
And you hand you a wrench.
Okay, so forgive me one second.
I'm gonna give Stacy sunshine.
Yeah.
And hopefully we don't get some sand.
There it is, okay.
All right, Stacy, where are ya?
It's not showing up, but maybe Jenny,
would you, if I make you a moderator?
Add.
Okay, there we go.
So I don't know, Jenny G,
if you're able to help me with that troll.
I don't like to call people that,
but that's what they're called.
Stacy, I couldn't see you on YouTube,
which is very weird.
I don't get that, but we'll just go on.
And yeah, so I love that,
the energetic and the practical.
If you try to leave the practical out of the situation,
then you got nothing.
Right.
Right, nothing good can come of that.
The hypnosis, do you wanna start there
and talk about that element?
Yeah, I mean, that's the most disturbing thing
is to realize that we are not alone
and that something has figured out
how to lend us its mind.
It's higher on the food chain.
It makes us behave in ways that go against our wellbeing.
And so we're dealing with interference.
It's very thorough and very focused.
So when we're, even when we're asleep,
we have really have no idea what's going on
while we're unconscious in that way
because we're being challenged in our dreams
as well as during our day.
And so we wanna come to terms with what's going on
and get to know the difference between our natural mind
and what we call the former installation.
And it starts to become more apparent
the more you start to pay attention.
And then it's annoying and uncomfortable to realize it
but most of our thoughts are not our own.
They're just like constant monkey mind stuff
that comes through like a radio channel.
So it takes real effort and saving of energy
in order to be able to turn and face that
and get it to stop letting that radio channel come in.
And that's where silence becomes critical
and the reason I teach the things I teach
is because they're practical ways to get into silence
without relying on substances.
Most people use drugs, medicine or whatever
to get into silence,
but then they're not able to integrate what happened to them
because it's such a big shift of perception
that when they come back, everything's kind of chaotic
and potentially very dangerous
because you're opening yourself up in ways
that are not ideal unless you really are ready
for the impact of what power plants can do to you.
So the hypnosis is a really tricky situation.
We wanna come out of hypnosis but not too aggressively.
We wanna be careful and come up with a strategy
that's gonna help us do so without ending up schizophrenic
or ending up with delusions of grandeur
or getting caught in materialism
or the attention that you might get
could lead to you being your ego getting out of balance
and then losing your path entirely.
So this is all delicate territory
to try to become awake and aware in a world
that is designed to program and control us.
And so these forces, even when you become
really liberated from hypnosis,
then they're gonna try to use you to create a cult
or something so that you are still controllable
in a different manner.
Right, yeah, great answer.
There's so much in there.
I can't help but asking first around,
now you've received a lot of good positive attention
in the last while.
I've seen you really accelerating in your work
which is fantastic, congratulations.
Has that been challenging for you on that level
of, you know, because that is one of the lures
into that more material kind of existence,
if I heard you correct.
Yeah, I mean, it's a very delicate thing, right?
So when people have attention on you,
there's projection, right?
And that's really important to live a life
in which you don't have a lot of projection on you
so that you can be inside of your own creative process
and not letting that attention or that projection
create expectation and or so like,
I've been fortunate to be working
with the cost of data material so in-depth
that, you know, erasing personal history,
losing self-importance, using death as an advisor,
all those things become critical
to my being able to do this work.
And there's real cool tricks
that you can keep applying to your life
to keep yourself in check
because, you know, every day everyone is a messenger,
everyone is reflecting to you the pitfalls of being here.
Right, so if I start to fall into a trench
of like being a truther or an influencer or a shaman
or all those are just trenches that people fall into.
They're like archetypes sitting there
waiting for you to like fall into that limited perception
of you that you fit into a category.
And so my relationship with it is tricky.
I have to be, I just sort of look at it like,
I can't get in a situation where I'm dependent
on this continuing, I'm always willing to go do whatever
like I'm a carpenter, I can run construction jobs,
I can manage big projects.
So I'm not attached to being here.
And therefore there's a lot of freedom.
I won't ever sell out because of that.
But we get lost when it becomes our identity
and then our path of heart becomes our financial piece.
And so like even like tattoo artists, I know
they end up losing their love for their art
because it becomes the way in which
they're generating income or cannabis growers.
It used to be fun and lovely and beautiful.
And then it became this like dark industry.
And so it's really hard.
This place is designed for everything to kind of get ruined.
And so we have to be super careful and aware
every step of the way and not fall into those traps.
So I'm very conscious of it and very much like,
but I also being of service and helping so many people,
the most beautiful rewards,
perceptually and energetically happen to me,
the more people I help.
All right, so I'm so thankful for that understanding
that to be of service is a real relationship with source.
And if we can all kind of be in a round table
where we're being honest with each other
about what we see, then we can all help others
but we need community.
We need honesty and reflection.
And so I work with mentors that help me to get to know
where I'm at with my wounded inner child stuff.
And that's very humbling to realize
that I still am in a lot of pain
and that there's a lot of unresolved wounding.
I've met people that think they're done
with their shadow work.
And that's confusing, that's concerning, right?
Like that suggests that they're in delusion of grandeur, right?
So it's just the costanato material is actually so confronting
that it's really just to read about Taisha Avalar's
experience or Florenda Donna-Graw or Carlos Costanato.
You realize that I'm just a very humble,
I'm just a beginner, I'm a novice,
I'm lucky to have such a magical experience
with perception 100% in my life.
Like I've reached across the threshold,
it's really incredible and I'm so thankful for it
but what they've done, they get to go into other worlds
and other visions and have entire experiences
that are so profound and then they come back
as if nothing ever happened.
They're not needing to tell people,
they're just so thankful.
So I know I'm just at the very beginning
of something that's very difficult to do
but I'm not scared of doing it.
So I'm really thankful for the support.
I look forward to helping more and more people
but I have to spend more and more time alone
and in silence in order to balance that.
Very nice.
Yeah, my question was going to be
but you answered it, why did you risk it?
Why did you risk the fame and getting out there?
And it's the same kind of precipice here.
Would you agree?
It's like walking a razor's edge
to put yourself out there
to receive the projections that are inevitable, right?
That people just do that.
They wanna project the good on you
and then inevitably there's always two sides, right?
The love bombers, I'm like, oh, interesting,
you love me now, I bet you're gonna hate me
in five minutes.
Yeah, it's so important to look at.
And yeah, as I cross thresholds
into more and more people
then the puppeteers grab one of the clients
and they turn them against me
and then all this slander and lies
and it's just crazy to watch.
I feel so bad for everyone involved
because we're all just so accessible in that way.
It's, so I try to be more discerning
about who I work with
but I have a big heart
and when somebody comes to me with a lot of red flags
that I really wanna, I think, well, maybe I can help them
and it's just really difficult to become kind of ruthless
enough to turn people down
and to try to figure out how to navigate all of it
but I did get vision of how difficult it would be.
My plan was to be private my whole life
and to keep working with these psychic women
that I was training with as a student
and then when they put on masks
and recommended the jabs and all that it just,
I broke my heart and I just got shown
that I needed to teach these things
to people that could really benefit
because they're attracting followers
and I'm attracting warriors
because I'm working within the world
in which people are willing to look
at what's actually going on
and they weren't willing to turn and look at it
and that just was so disturbing
and I feel so alone in a lot of ways because of it
like I was deep, deep with them
and they're very gifted in many ways
so all that is just such a difficult thing
to come to terms with
and yeah, the challenges that come with this
are going to be the tightrope
that I will learn to either walk or not
and it is terrifying and uncomfortable
but what I'm doing is unprecedented.
I'm listening, I'm not copying,
I've become very capable of being supported
by non-linear helpers
and so the lineage is working through me
and it's guiding me
and I'm so thankful to be that much further along
in my journey because of what I chose to do
it forces forcing me to mature and grow up
and become more discerning and aware
in a way that I wouldn't be able to
without this type of rite of passage essentially.
Very well said, yeah, I've noticed
if you don't mind my reflection
just such a huge transformation
has taken place in the short term,
short time that I've been tuning in with you
like really beautiful trajectory of growth
and I appreciate your honesty so much
because for everybody out there in the
whether it's the New Age movement
or Healing movements
or the Alternative Health movements
and stuff like that
and when they say, oh, it's gonna be so easy
and perfect and all you need to do is this and that
and you can have everything you want
and they just sell it
like it's gonna be this wonderful journey
and frankly for me, I'm into it for more than 30 years
probably 35 years
and it gets harder every year, right?
It gets harder
and what you say, you know
I always thought had the imagination
that this work was gonna make me great
but it's quite the opposite
it makes me like nobody.
Oh, yeah, it's very much
that's what's needed is that knowing
that you're not needed
and yet the spirit is going to work with you
and yet there's a backup plan
so you're not required
and yet you're part of all of it
you're interconnected
so this whole dance with becoming nothing
and empty enough in order to be truly of service
that there's so many layers and different depths
in which people are willing to go
and most people have jumped in a little bit
and they're claiming to have discovered something
they write books about all these things
and then you meet them
and there's just no depth there
because they thought the shallow end was the deep end
and so they got all excited and everybody believes them
and it's just really, it's like crazy
because they're the ones that tend to get
a lot of attention
that's just because this place is designed
as a means to make sure that the real stuff gets
somehow less accessible to the masses.
Exactly.
Yeah, I'd like also your point about being really discerning
about who you let into your circles
especially who you work with.
I actually teach betting for my coaches.
Yeah, yeah, so that they,
because you save yourself so much trouble, right?
That ounce of pre-framing is worth a pound
of trying to pick up the pieces later down the road
and yeah, I got to a point
where I was literally discouraging people
from doing the work to a point too
because everyone has some potential.
This was one of the things that I heard you say
that this work is not for everyone
and I appreciate that so much.
So who would you say it is right for?
Yeah, I mean, I think when one is really ready
to discover the mystery
and move into the non-linear and the abstract,
it needs to be like a really strong calling.
Otherwise it's just sort of like could be really ungrounding.
And so I try to help people get grounded
as the primary thing so that they don't get,
they don't further dysregulate their nervous system.
And so some people I'm trying to help
like really slow down the process,
but they're in desperation wanting like a quick fix
and just have to be really honest
that this is going to take years.
Like you're in a place that doesn't get fixed right away
and some people they're really advanced
and I can help them to just expedite their capacity
because they've already done a ton of work
but most people are showing up thinking
they've done all this work
but whatever work they've been doing
it hasn't been effective enough
to be able to really claim that they've done the work.
And so it's kind of like having to be brutally honest
with people and then they're like,
well, why should I try one more thing?
But that's usually right there where there might be ready
if they can show up as a beginner
and realize that that's the only way to learn.
But if they're like, I've done all this work
then I shouldn't still be here.
Therefore, is this going to work?
I'm like, I tell people this works no matter what.
It's just whether you follow through
and right when it's about to break through
you'll likely walk away
because the resistance is so powerful.
So this work is actually available to anyone
if they have an issue with their job
and they're throwing energy at their employer.
I can help them.
I can save their life if they'll just listen to me.
But most people aren't willing to look
at their responsibility, their part within their puzzle
and they wanna blame and project
and be at odds with the world.
And I take that away.
There's nothing to be at odds with.
This whole place is just a reflection of where you are at.
And whatever you think is in the way of you
being successful has nothing to do with you.
I mean, it's not true.
You're the only one.
And so this is all very energetic work
that requires a brutal level of honesty with self.
Yeah, you got it.
It was fun when you were saying
how most of our thoughts are not our own.
And this ties in with what you just said
in terms of the willingness to take responsibility.
I teach a process based on the work of Lester Levinson.
And this is not a new statement.
And it's practically boring by this point
of our spiritual evolution in the popular world
or whatever you wanna call it,
but it's radical responsibility.
And so something happens to you
and my paradigm now,
not to say I'm perfect at this by any means
and I'm probably gonna be tested just for saying this,
but I get this, well, I did it.
And how did I do it?
Even though there's some level of, I've been victimized,
but what is my part?
How am I cooperating with this?
What am I running inside myself
that is willing to engage with this process?
Like, and it wasn't in fact,
Custonator was the guy who somebody asked him
like, how do you stay safe?
And he said, don't show up for the shooting.
Was that him?
Well, Carlos was trying to convince Don Juan
that he was vulnerable to things just like he was.
And so he was saying, well,
Don Juan was trying to tell him how to navigate
or how to be impeccable.
And Carlos was saying, well,
you wouldn't be able to get away from,
if somebody was trying to shoot you,
then you would, there's nothing you could do about that.
And he said, of course I can.
I wouldn't come around if someone was trying to shoot me.
Yeah, yeah, thank you for filling in the blank there.
And that, you know, the magical thing aside from there,
and I'm not using that word lightly.
I don't use it at all, but that taking responsibility
is not the truth, but it is the most powerful tool.
And it helps me to move.
So I don't have to go through all of my life feeling like,
oh, that's not my thought and that's not my thought.
And where is the intruder and come in at every angle,
even though it seems like they are.
And probably that is the reality.
I'm very naive in that, that I'll just keep on,
oh, that's my thought.
And then I'll work with that thought
and I'll hopefully release whatever programming
is associated if it's not productive or creative
or life supportive and that kind of thing.
So yeah, I'm just having fun finding the parallels
in our discoveries, it's so cool.
Let's see where would I like to go?
So what do you think is the nature?
This question, I doubt we can really come to any fact of,
but you never know, because your knowledge is deep.
What do you think the programming actually is?
I mean, the dreamers that I've talked to that said
that they are able to go into the non-linear
and witness things that are considered past events
is that there is a, and there are inorganic beings
that are very powerful and capable of feeding off of us
and that they've created these, a replica of their,
they created like these replicas of,
or they didn't mean to do this,
but they created something as a means
to sort of monitor us and control us
so they didn't have to use much effort
and that thing replicated itself.
It was like a program that recreated itself
and then it spread exponentially,
like out of control, like within an instant
and that those things are like have taken over
and so whatever created that has lost control
of what it created and we're in a real predicament
because of it.
It's kind of like in the, I think it's the Fantasia
where Mickey Mouse tries to make more brooms
in order to clean, or like tries to,
it creates all these, he was a sorcerer's apprentice
and he used magic to do something
and it became destructive
because it replicated itself and then it took over
and there's something about that in the world of sorcery
that people that have power end up trying to make things easy
and then that real dilemmas occur
and so there's multiple non-human forces
that we are in it and unfortunately
in dealing with as far as spiritual warfare
and I think that it's dangerous to pick one side
or the other, that the spiritual warfare itself is a trap
and that there's a way to walk a middle path
and did not get caught in all of it
and it takes real discernment to recognize
that it's seductive and most shamans get pulled
into that stuff one way or another
so it's just hard to come to terms with that
that we're being programmed by something
that isn't going to go away
so therefore most of humanity is not going to be able
to reclaim their attention.
It's very few of us that are gonna be able to do that
and I don't think it's meant to be different
I think as kind of dark as that sounds
it's just the way in which this place is designed
and it's in a way really worth it
because if you and I can really make use of this lifetime
as a means to become super conscious and aware
then we can discover how incredible humans are
and therefore that 100th monkey thing works
because it gives people permission to unlock the secret
of what we are which is perceptual creatures
capable of creating worlds just like the one we're in
but it requires such a deep journey inward
that most people would just rather keep the TV on
and scroll on their phone and not go into that depth.
Exactly yeah you said that it requires a lot of time alone
and even with time alone there's no guarantee right
I love what you said about reclaiming our attention
man if there's like one boom
I'm sure there's gonna be many but that's a big one there
and when you talk about inorganic beings
what is that like is that life as we know it
or something entirely different yeah.
Yeah I mean we are, if you read the Costa Nada books
thoroughly they go really into the depths
of all these different types of creatures
that we coexist with that are here right now
but we can't see them and they can see us.
When night time happens when it cuts night time
then some people can see them
but they're not easily perceived
you don't see them with your eyes
you see them with your energy field perceives them
but there might be like what you think your eyes are seen
as like a sort of a version of scene
but really you're perceiving them
with a different part of you if you're able
to witness them.
I was introduced to them when I was 16
in the wilderness during the middle of the day
my teacher was so powerful
that he was able to you know pull something
in to help me have my first experience witnessing them
and it was just like energy moving in this weird way
and I couldn't see really anything
I kind of had a projection experience of something in it
it was uncomfortable to witness something
that wasn't of this world from my perspective
that led to being able to go into the wilderness at night
and see these incredibly powerful energy fields
and to hear sounds that they would make
and so they're called entities of the night
because that's when they're perceived
and they come out of their hiding
or whatever at night as well
and they're seeking interaction
they're not necessarily negative
you could wrestle one down to the ground
if you were crazy enough
and it would become a helper that you could use
if you were into that kind of sorcery
and then that helper can spy on your apprentices
or it can tell you things
so that you don't have to like figure it out on your own
it becomes like this aid that most sorcerers end up
using so there's all kinds of weird ways
to interact with these things
some of them are just shadowy entities
that are just parasitic
and they're just annoying
and they can attach to your energy field
there's entities that can come in through dreams
that can possess people
I've been a part of many exorcisms
but the reality is unless you do your own work
that exorcism's just a temporary fix
and that entity will probably reattach
so I teach people how to heal themself
so they're not relying on shamans
to do the work for them
yeah excellent way to go
I'll ask this question first from the chat
how do we fend them off?
do prayers and mantras work?
can Joel recommend his spiritual weapons?
oh yeah it's a difficult thing to talk about
some people are really into like setting up protection
and doing all kinds of rituals and ceremonies
and that can be a really powerful way to learn
at a certain point
but I've found that that protection like attracts challengers
so that you're almost like creating a spiritual battle
so what I've found is that the joy in your life
is what protects you
when your life is harmonious
and you have a lot of beautiful things happening
then everything balances out
including these types of things
and so a lot of people get into spiritual stuff
when they're not in harmony
they're looking for the spiritual path
to create the harmony
and then all this fear comes up
because they need to go through their fear
in order to get to harmony
so it's like not an easy thing to explain
but learning what I recommend
is that people do the magical passes
practice recapitulation
and become curious about dreaming
not obsessed or trying to fix
or there's going to be nightmares
that's part of becoming an aware dreamer
but there's also going to be the most beautiful
healing experiences in your dream time as well
so it's worth going through the fear side of it
in order to get to the part where you become lucid
and can have the time of your life
and these entities and energy beings
they're attached
they're attracted to your emotions
so some people have a lot of fear
and therefore those beings come closer
and some people have like a lot of love
for them
because they don't know what they're dealing with
and then they end up forming bonds with these things
that they don't really understand
and you probably want to have a better understanding
of what these things are really about
before you form bonds with them
yeah that's really wise
there was a time when I was doing a small project
with someone pre-planetemic
and we were doing
you know it was a goddess thing
and we got that Ishtar
and all kinds of entities actually
Mother Mary, Mary Magdalene
all these you know
and we think we're so romantic about them
we love them
and I had a lot of direct experiences
and amazingly I was being protected
without asking for protection
because I was I was seduced by them
right I
it seemed you know you call on Mary
and there's Mary
and it's this really elevated experience
but I saw through
I managed to see through and realize
like this is an entity
and me calling on these things
is is opening me to that
so I was able to shut that down
and you know so do you agree
they come into in all kinds of disguises
yeah I work with the earth and the sun
because everything else I don't know
well why are you helping me
you know and what's your agenda
why is everyone always calling Michael in
like what is this all about
you know
what is the exchange
and so I'm just curious
I don't claim to know or understand
one of my elders used to make fun of
you know like white light people
and all the new age stuff
and and all the people working with angels
and stuff because
you know he looks at it like it's
a very much like you don't
like you don't want to get on the light side
or the dark side
you don't want to be calling in these helpers
it's kind of like if you go to prison
and you have to join a gang
in order to get through it
you know if some way you could not do that
that would be ideal
to just remain sovereign
and and just work directly to stores
instead of like a middle man
yes red pill blue pill
right it's in the same exact category
which I'm seeing in technicolor
in so many arenas like everywhere
and yeah yeah yeah
they want you to go to the good
and go away from the bad
but it's it just keeps you on the exact pendulum
what I what I refer to as on the map
I won't go into detail
but our our our purpose
to me is to get off the maps
yeah that have been provided
so wow so good
yeah the the interfering energies
it's interesting I went through series of accidents this summer
and I'm not really an accident person
an injuries I haven't been in
I really haven't been injured
I'm pretty careful
I had I like to walk backwards
a little bit in line
I was going to ask you about
contraries and tricksters
and all that kind of thing
I have a fun walking backwards
well one week I hit a truck
walking backwards
and the next day
I thought I'm so smart
I'm going to not do this on the road
I'm going to that truck wasn't moving
and I didn't get that hurt at all
so oh I'm going to do it in the parking lot
in the park
and and I fell over a curb
yeah I saw the side curbs
I didn't see the end curb
and there's like boom
a couple of people are going like yeah
well done like this to me
and then I had a dream
that I was driving backwards
and I was in the back seat of the car
and I was looking sideways
at something that was fully capturing
my attention
I can't I can't even imagine what that was
it's not a screen or anything
I was very contented
I felt very at peace
and then I looked out the back
and I went hmm
I wonder if I should get in the front
seat of the car and drive
I wonder if that's a good idea
so it was just kind of an interesting
illustration of
of these
I don't know if you want to say
anything about that
or what I was even asking about
totally I mean yeah it's um
it's amazing to learn
to do the things like that
like the undoings
the not doings
anything that pulls you out
of your typical routines
pattern breaks
so yeah walking backwards
in the Toltec world
one of the Shaman students
put a rear view mirror
on his head
attached to his head
and had a rear view mirror
so he can walk backwards
through the city
that's what I need
so you're just missing that
and then no more injuries
I never thought that would be cheating
it's actually really psychedelic
because mirrors are
mirrors are a powerful tool
when I'm
gazing in a mirror
and the mirror is reflecting to me
like an open window
or like a sliding glass door
then I'm actually looking outside
through the mirror
and then I forget about the mirror
and I'm looking outside
and I'm gazing out into the world
and it's no different
than if I had turned my body and looked
and so
and then large bodies of water
like huge ponds
like complete reflections
if you can get silent
while you're looking at some reflections
it'll completely shatter
your sense of reality
because
your your whole system goes into
and it doesn't understand
it doesn't know what's happening
it takes it as
actual thing
which it is an actual thing
it's actually more powerful
right so if you can learn to look at the shadow
instead of the tree
then the shadow becomes alive
and the tree becomes
the shadow
and then
the world
you know you start to watch
ravens fly along the red rocks
like in Sedona
and you're only tracking the shadow
and it's
you start to move into these very altered
states of perception
where that world
becomes more alive somehow
yeah it's beautiful
and you said
you said the word pattern interrupt
so
like to me that's
it's one of the most essential features
people always say
oh
there was one of my
students
lover god bless her
she's like
oh I
I started standing up
to do the release work
and now I'm having these massive breakthroughs
and I said
that's fantastic
and good for you
and here's
probably why
because it cuts that
sit down and release
expectation that your
system already has
correct
yeah yeah so anyway
my life is full of ways to invent
those pattern interrupts
and
as it turns out life
invents those for me too so
no no shortage
yeah yeah very good
thank you very much Matt
I appreciate that
and
you're sorry for my accidents
so you have an impossible fear of water
like drinking
rain shower
ocean stream
all water
don't touch it
have been a surfer
and a water person up
until this
relationship interesting
yeah my son has a fear of water too
I think it's a bath incident
and when he was a baby
and I don't know if there's anything
you'd like to say about that
I mean these are
yeah the challenges that we face
are personal to like
you know
parallel lives to sometimes
where something's going on
in another lifetime
that's associated
and they're
they can be really
it can be really incredible
to slowly carefully
eventually be able to
to face these things
in a way that's sustainable
but you know
it's okay to navigate our life
carefully
and avoid certain things
until we're ready
you know
but we can heal energetic
if we can heal our electricity
then we can handle anything
and so eventually
it's just being honest
about how to get to the place
where we can do that
and then these things
that we have paranoia around
can end up being
the very thing that leads
to our ultimate healing
because we finally
are able to integrate
very nice
I like how you're emphasizing
to go slow
yeah
I recently went into a
a detox process
in the last 14
now 15 months
and
I brought all my indoctrination
with it about like
go hard
and you know
go fast
and makeup for lost time
and all this kind of stuff
while I got my ass kicked
yeah
process right
and it's taken this long
to come to
a really good pace for myself
where I know
I am definitely detoxing
but I'm not hurting myself
and setting myself back
every 10 minutes
good
yeah
having a realistic strategy
is critical
yeah
and as far as healing
the electricity
do you want to say
more about that
I mean that's why grounding
is so critical
that we're meant to be
grounded electrically
to the mother
and she's a real being
and she's an electrical field
they call it the earth matrix
there's many many visions
that she can help you
go and be a part of
and have the most miraculous
experience as a dreamer
but we would
we would get really
injured
if we didn't heal our electricity
because the jolts that happen
are too intense
unless you've
dealt with any
circuit issues
everything's got to be like
precise
otherwise it would be overwhelming
right
so people go do vipassanas
and they have something happen
that they weren't prepared for
because they forced themselves
to stay sitting for so long
that something
you know it's sort of like
the energy's forced to do
something because you're not
moving your body
and that can be amazing
because for some people
that they end up on psych meds
the rest of their life
so there's so many tricky
challenges that come
with being honest
about what a practical way is
and we are just electrical
creatures
and there's dirty electricity
and then there's clean electricity
and in order to have
clean electricity running
we're going to have to
clean up our lives
and that's
what kind of information
are you tapping into
what kind of people are you
hanging out with
where is your attention
focused on
and how
are you going to
get strong enough to feel
the depths
of all the unresolved feelings
that are stored in your field
so you want to do the practical work
to get strong enough physically
and energetically
to be able to be
a healthy processor
so it's like a computer
a laptop is a processor
we created something
that kind of represents us
and in order to clean
our files out
so that the computer
can run functionally
that's where all of our heavy stories
inventory
fears descriptions of the world
all that inventory is too heavy
and it takes up too much memory
and so our computers aren't
working well
until we clear that memory
and that's where the recapitulation is
is the next stage
when people really understand
what that is
that you can
basically remove the baggage
you've been carrying
your whole life
and put it in a trash bin
that will actually
be able to exit out the processor
nice
I love the computer
if it's just an analogy
or a metaphor
but it works
and it's like you said
we invented the computer
as a projection
of what's going on for us
so yeah
it works shockingly well
you go to delete a file
and your computer goes
are you sure?
yeah
you're like yep
I'm sure
you have to give it the absolute okay
yeah
yeah that's amazing
um
yeah and ending up on segments
I studied in India
maybe I'll talk about it more on Monday
when we meet again
and um
you know at times
there were people
running naked
down the road
in the mountains
because they just
they would call them
kundalini cases
yeah
and they had a blowout
and and that's all electricity
it is
oh
so intense
yeah yeah
I know it's really
again it's
do you feel it's a kind of
razor's edge
to walk
or is it not like that for you
yeah I mean it is
because we
we could easily
you know
move into a state of awareness
in which we're no longer
capable of relating
to the to our fellow man
and we need to be able to
that's why the Toltecs
emphasize controlled folly
that you realize
that everybody's operating
out of a default program
that they're all under hypnosis
and you learn how to be an actor
or an actress
so that people don't realize
that you're no longer
separate from that
that way you don't scare people
you can get in and out of
situations without triggering
people
you wear you wear a lightweight
mask instead of wear the constant
heavy social mask of your
you know Joel Schaefer
or whatever it's like
we have to take that one off
and that's an uncomfortable thing
to do
but like you know
it happened through your
journey of disease
and then coming
having to face the
social aspect of that
you end up having to get authentic
and remove that mask
in order to properly
deal with the emotions
that led to that disease
most people don't have
catalysts of that nature
that forces them to do
something of that
you know
so it's the ego death
is it's no joke
but it's a critical
necessity
in order to become liberated
enough to be able to make use of this
place here
outside of the default program
right right
but when you talk about catalysts
that force them
say me getting sick
or people having an accident
or something
you know loss
it's inevitably
it's really hard wired into our
existence here
do you think that that's required
that they
they must like they
and there's probably a difference
between
what's
likely to happen
and
and then you know
what's possible
but do you think that we require
these catalysts to force us
or could could the work be
purely chosen
yeah um
I believe that
you know the reason I'm really
returning to the cost of native
material is I think that it
it offers a way
for anyone
without needing a guru
and eventually the books you
you don't even need the books
once you've read them
and you you've understood
what what was being suggested
so I think the reason Don
Juan had Carlos write books
is because he knew there would
come a time where this knowledge
would be needed
and that people could
access this stuff
and really make use of it
as a means to
you know free themselves
without having to have
some sort of extreme event
that forces us
so I I agree
I think it's very possible
but there's uh
a limiting storyline
that comes in to
in each individual
that will try to challenge that
because the way these predator
energies
do things is they blitz you
with story and fear and
limitation
and so you might start down
the path of working with the
books and starting to open up
and then
it's going to try to bitch slap
you really hard to make sure
you get scared
and quit
pursuing something that could
really work
exactly yeah
I had that direct experience
in Nepal
I love that about
the putting on the lightweight mask
that was something that
Lester Levinson after
he had his awakening experience
he claims to have let go of
all of what is not love
in him
and I didn't know him
personally I didn't meet him
and I don't think he was flawless
because of that
but that's not necessarily
the thing
and and he would say
that people were like
so mystified
and downright terrified in the
in the 1950s right before
there's this now this is almost
a normal subject for us to have
in public care
but at that time
he you know he could just do
things he could just manifest
things he could just this and
that probably talk about
manifesting a bit in a
in a while too
but he would say that
you know after the programming
is gone
then you use the programming
as a way to exactly what you
said to interact
yeah it's amazing
yeah and then everything
becomes fascinating all the time
like you don't mind going
and working a job
that would normally be boring
and draining because
you've become psychedelic
so much that everything
is fascinating
and then those
human to human interactions
teach you
how to become a
more and more sensitive to what
you're interacting with
so they people teach you
how to be like them
they're teaching you
different positions of perception
that you get to borrow from
and try on
and it's like a healthy chameleon
where in the past
I was an unhealthy chameleon
I was just
I was just being absorbed
by their perception of the world
because I was like
very much a follower
as far as like colts
and like wanting to learn
and understand
so people that were powerful
would pull me into their way
of perceiving the world
and I was just like a sponge
but then when I became
my own person
I was able to benefit
from having been a chameleon
in the past
but used that skill set
in a way that healed me
instead of wounded me
so there's all these different
stages to this stuff
but when you truly
move remove your social mask
there's a vulnerable time
there in which you might find
yourself in a colt
because you're looking to somebody
to keep your reality intact
because your reality is not intact
and then you eventually
hopefully can heal from that
but that's all really difficult
tricky terrain
to just realize that hypnosis
is in every situation
across the board
in the truth of world
in the health world
in the shaman world
it's all different versions
of very unhealthy
codependent sort of interactions
with trying to be like somebody else
and then putting them on a pedestal
and so it's very lonely and scary
to spend the proper amount of time alone
in order to reset all that stuff
but if you do
then the universe will gift you
with all these incredible people
on the other side of it
so it's worth having
the healthy boundaries
in which you're really clear
on your yeses and nos
and then eventually the world
will send you all these yeses
but you got to say no
quite a bit
in order to be rewarded
with the yes
typically
yeah very nice
I like that phrase
healthy chameleon
I could use that in the bank
when you know
and I go to institutions
that challenge my
rebel nature
and it's my measure
I heard you say that
some of your teachers would
hire a tyrant
or they would go and
work for a tyrant
to to bring up their stuff
all I have to do is go into
normal public because
my life has become
you know a really beautiful
place of my own making
and that's fantastic
we should all have that
but it's the outside world
that makes me
see who I am
yeah if I can walk into a bank
and not make anybody feel bad
or not make a scene
and not sing out loud
when I get stressed
or you know
like it's just really comical
my poor son he's seen all the worst
of that of me
yeah
oh man so many good subjects
to cover
I wanted to talk about
parallel lives
and that you're not as down
or the Toltecs
don't talk about reincarnation
so much as parallel lives
do you want to explain the
difference between those two
if there is
yeah so
Toltecs end up being able to dream
really powerful dreams
in which they control their dreams
and can go into deeper layers
what we call dreaming gates
certain types of control
leads to being able to go from
one threshold to another
and eventually
you can encounter your parallel
live
or many
and that's a real boost of energy
for that to happen
it can also happen through
scrying in the mirror
but you want to gain access
to these other parts of you
that are out there
and
Sean and say that you go
backwards through the stream
of consciousness to that
which is projecting this avatar
it's projecting many avatars
and they're all parallel
they're all happening at the same time
so when I die
if I do not
get to enter into the afterlife
with my awareness intact
and I recycle again
I'll probably end up in like
the 1580
you know like go back
into another life
that was happening
at a different time
it's not going to be like
if I died in 2025
it's not like I would show up again
in 2026
necessarily I could
and that does happen
but they're all happening
at the same time
because this place isn't actually
linear
and it's not actually physical
and it's really hard to find that out
because it just
it's like having the carpet
pulled out from under you
to realize this is not a physical
linear experience
it's so much more magical than that
but we do want to be able to work
within the linear
and the physical
as a means to make use of it
and not end up schizophrenic
by trying to stay away from it
it's a it's a very difficult tightrope
to walk
is to be able to access these other worlds
access your parallel lives
without like I had a friend
take LSD after being in prison
and he took a lot
and all of a sudden
he's got an English accent
and he's talking about his family
and he's totally just
in his parallel being
and it stayed
he stayed that way
for like two and a half days
and it was fascinating
but it's super dangerous
so there are so many things
that can happen
and we want to just be realistic
about this stuff
and realize most people
that are locked up for
being mentally ill
are just having
things that could be explained
by shamans really easily
and so we're in a tricky world
trying to figure out a way
to be able to access
what shamans access
without you know
getting locked up for it
exactly yeah I mean
it's not hard to
hard to define that as crazy
right
and and there is a certain
crazy in it
that you know it
again back to the razor's edge
of it
the also the image of
the the
Indian god Hanuman
is straddling the worlds
right that he's
symbolic of the splits
like how
extended could you be
and you say that it's a
it's a blessing to discover
other parallel versions
of yourself
yeah if you're
if you're ready
it would be
it would be cause
total confusion
to have happened
if you weren't on a path
of knowledge
in which you were
energetically trained
and prepared
to encounter these things
so you don't
Toltec say that
if a man
or a woman were
to learn to see energy
without becoming a warrior
first
they would become meek
in the face of the unknown
and I saw that happen
with a friend of mine
he wasn't strong enough
to be doing
the type of dreaming
he was doing
he hadn't built up his
physical body
strong enough
he didn't
just have the oomph
that it takes as a man
to be able to do this work
women it's a totally
different type of energy
that they need
in order to handle this work
women are more likely
to go about
shit crazy
in this work than men
women are so powerful
their perception
can go so far
so quick
right
so men are more likely
to become
delusional
around grandeur
and create a cult
and women are more likely
to go
into their witch
so far that they
you know
lose sense of reality
and they become dysfunctional
and rely on a man
to help them
because of it
so
it's a very difficult thing
to balance the intermarriage
of the masculine
and the feminine
as an individual
and also show up
in a relationship
that can be potentially healing
for for being
able to be vulnerable
enough to get to know
those parts
so that's where a lot of work
is I think
going to need to go
is into the relationship world
instead of the shamanic
because that's where
the shadow work
is more prevalent
and that's why
shamans avoid relationships
is because
it's so difficult
and so
but that's
what my elder said
is that there's
two tribes
the tribe of man
and the tribe of woman
if those two tribes
could learn to work together
then we could
actually do incredible things
with this place
but right now
we're just easily controllable
and manipulated
because of the divisions
that are
so easily manipulated
but yeah
it's a
it's a whole
subject in itself
is just to go into
all the different ways
in which we could get really
honest about
the dangers of
of parallel lives
the dangers of psychedelics
the dangers of
cults and shamans
there's plenty of powerful shamans
you don't want to just go
looking for random shamans
so there's so many people that'll
misuse
misuse their power
and
but the parallel life thing is real
and it's important to be able
to just understand
that you don't get another shot
at this
you want to treat this life as the one
because
they're all strung together
so if you can liberate
your life
this time
all your parallel lives will benefit
it's all connected
and so we're all one
and therefore
the 100th monkey thing is real
therefore the only work there is to do
is quit trying to save people
quit trying to stop
or change what's going on
you know at the bank
stop being offended
at the way this place functions
and then you'll be
going inward
and become a powerful
battery
you'll become a lighthouse
and more and more people
than be able to do the same
because you gave them permission
through modeling it
oh my goodness
so many things in there
the very last point
about being offended
that's like priceless
absolutely priceless
the the level
there's so many things
I was just kind of taking inventory
giving myself a pat on the back
about things I'm not offended by
anymore
and you know
it's it's a miraculous freedom
in that
that that people can do this
and they can do that
and they can say these things
and and then you go
then there's that little dig right
I thought I had healed from an
experience of
of loss
and getting taken advantage of
and lied to and stuff like that
and I really cleaned up big time
on that
I felt so free until
there was this like
next iteration
and you know I saw this thing
and they're probably using my money
to do it
and there's like
and then oh new level of little
you know
grind on the offended part
so
it's
yeah yeah
so come a long way
lots of work to do
the
you talked about
the the cults
the misuse of power
can you want to go deeper into
that
and then maybe how it even
intersects with the
the psychedelia
that I know is not
necessarily drug dependent
I love that you're not
pushing that
on people
right that it's a thing so
you know where you want to
yeah totally
I mean everything's a cult
you know
and and there's different versions
of cults
right so
it
it's a matter of just realizing
that
and then
being okay like I knew I was in
these cults
but I was there for a reason
I was guided to go in there
and learn from
these people on like how not
to be
and I also
but I also got to be in the
presence of people who were
extremely altered
and that rubbed off and I
learned how to be altered
to all the time
which is
there's an advantage to that
learning how to be in height
and awareness
so I don't mind learning from
people
even ones that I know are
not being honest with
themselves and others
because I get shown that
I need to be in their
presence for a period of time
and so but I'm not
recommending people try to
do what I did
you kind of have to be
innocent and ignorant enough
to be in there in the first
place mixed with some
guidance
so I can't go recreate that
same thing anymore
because I know better but
I'm able to expose
people now
right I can see through their
story
and I can see what's
energetically occurring
in their relationship
so I'm a threat to their
their secret
and so I
that's a difficult position
to be in
just my mirror
the fact that I'm a mirror
they see me
seeing them
and they don't want
that reflection
so I'm pretty strategic
and careful about the kind
of places and people
I introduce myself to
Colts are just
it's just an energetic fact
that every group
once it gets to a large
enough size
something shows up
to cause a lot of havoc
in all kinds of ways
and no one is
everyone is vulnerable
and so it's something to
really think about
and they talk about it in
reality Transurfing
they call them pendulums
it's because human mass
is such a powerful thing
that if
enough people could get
together and be
synchronized and focused
on one thing at a time
incredible potential exist
there
but instead that happens at
football games
and
rock concerts
and all that energy
gets given to the idol
instead of being distributed
to everyone
in this
in the way that it would
ideally be done
and then there's all these
energies that show up
and feed off of everybody
that are not human
and it all gets
it just we just keep being
harvested
in ways that are really
thorough
and so this is
no matter what we do
there's a
there is a
an energetic response
by these non-human forces
that are trying to make sure
that we remain
in the slaughterhouse
being fed off slowly
instead of realizing
how powerful we are
and if we could get enough
people together
to offset that
hypnosis
it would have such a big boost
and so as those groups
start to get big enough
and strong enough
they send in something
to destroy it
and it usually works
I think the Mayans were able
to walk right out of this world
and go into another layer
of the onion
and stay there
and I think that's something
we should learn how to do
because we might not be able
to to really stand our ground
here
because it's such a
it's so difficult
they've thought of everything almost
and so walking out of this realm
what would be
so right away
and this isn't to challenge you
I'm just and it's probably
going to be a word thing
but so one of the
psyops
about this realm
is that we need to escape this realm
and so how can you do that
differently
is it just
is it just matter
a matter of motive
that
learning to walk out of this realm
rather from fear
but out of love
is that
yeah it's just going into a deeper
layer of the mother
it's not escapism
it's just like this really beautiful
reclaiming of what we are
we're travelers
we're not meant to remain
in one vision
you and I are having
a collective vision right now
but we've taken it for granted
and we think this is the only
functioning vision
but it's just one of many
and the only way to go
into those other visions
is to save enough dreaming energy
and ideally done
with a large enough group
that you can go all together
and visit these places
come back
visit some more
and eventually
you could create a home
over there
in these other places
and go be there
and it's really beautiful
it's not
it's not trying to get out of here
this isn't a soul trap
this is just a
an obstacle course
that's designed for
evolutionary awareness
and people that are trying to escape
are missing the point
this is the training ground
this is where your soul
is meant to be
as a means to develop itself
and it's a platform
in which like a launch pad
in which you could blast off
into other worlds from here
so why would you want to escape
a launch pad
that could take you
into all these magical places
that's ridiculous
and yet
that's how we're designed
is to like complain
you know to be at odds with things
to turn it into a doom and gloom scenario
it's not really
yeah that's the harm
in a way of Gnosticism
or at least how I understand it
that it's
they've set us up
we're trapped in this realm
and we got the Archons
controlling us
and we have to
somehow not
come back to earth
don't don't go in the light
they're saying
don't go in the light
and you die
and stuff like that
so yeah
I like how there's
you know there's a certain amount
of truth in there
but what you're saying is
is I think much more
closer to reality
I also heard you say
the word focus
and in one of your interviews
I heard you say
that focus
is better than meditation
do you want to talk about that
and I have to turn some lights on
because it's getting dark here
so forgive me for just a minute
and you can talk
and I'm right here
but I'll be right back
yeah yeah one of my
elder
would also say that
instead of meditate focus
because
meditation is sort of this
like expecting there to just be
this nothing
or to just like kind of open
but if you were to follow a
feeling that you really enjoyed
that was abstract
and stay focused on it
that would be an even more
profound breakthrough
so it's just like
engaging in a
very directed way
with the feelings
that you want to stay with
and so when I'm recapitulating
and I'm back in these like
really beautiful memories
it's healing just to be
in that memory
because it was so magical for me
but there's this default
autopilot program
that tries to pull me out
and go pick up my phone
or go do something
other than what I was just
experiencing
because it doesn't want me to
stay there and truly gain
the benefit of the secret
of just focused
stay focused
stay on point
don't exit that incredible moment
you don't have to
but we
pretend to just not
be able to develop that
staying power
but if you can reclaim
your attention
then you'll be able to focus
the reason we teach
the shamanic movements
is they do something
very strange
that makes it possible
to focus in a way
that you couldn't before
and then you can properly
recapitulate
and actually get some work done
in your past
and I don't mean dwell
in your past
you don't want to hang out
you don't want to
miss out on the present moment
this is constantly psychedelic
so it's this time
that you spend throughout your day
week month or whatever
where you're picking up the
luminosity
that you left
in these experiences of the past
and instead of going into the past
you actually bring the past
to the present
so you're still feeling
your present experience
but you've brought forward
this feeling
and you're revisiting it
and you're claiming
you're picking up the
luminosity that you left
in that moment
and you're exhaling
anything that wasn't yours
and it's just a way of cleaning your temple
your energetic temple
and it really works
once you get the breakthrough
but it doesn't work
to try to recapitulate
unless you have very strong focus
and so you might get frustrated
that's why I try to get people
just do the movements
don't even try to recapitulate
let the movements eventually
get you into that
because a moving meditation
is so much easier
than trying to just meditate
without moving your body
but if you're constantly like
in this
where your hands are moving
and you're redirecting energy
and you're engaging
in these very strange behaviors
that break up the stagnant energy
of your field
then you lend them to your organs
and then your organs
have secondary functions
and they start to become online
and that's how you heal the electricity
the way I teach it
is just doing the movements
over and over
until you have the breakthroughs
and then eventually your body
will be able to focus
and you can go much deeper on your path
very nice
yeah so the meditation
I meditated for a lot of years
and really seriously
I was very very diligent at it
but I had a wrong paradigm
because I ended up sick
with a stage 4 lymphoma doing it
and I think that comes back
to that desire to escape
using the meditation
as a way to escape
rather than to focus
and go deeper
within some of it
a lot of people
that are on spiritual paths
where the focus is ascending
they start to die
right
right we're meant to be here
we're meant to go actually
into the earth
and learn to anchor to her
and be like a tree
that's totally connected
we're meant to experience
you know the dissension
into that
those deep areas
that are typically avoided
that's why all these
celibate people
that are avoiding their shadows
stuff because they're just pretending
that they're past that
it doesn't work that way
that you're repressing energy
that needs to be understood
and worked with
there's material there
it's messy business
being a human
but we can't skip the mess
yeah as it turns out
we can't skip the mess
I like there's another good sound bite
bring on the mess
yeah
so let's see where we're at
what would you say is the difference between
if any a dream and a vision
yeah I mean
I think they're very
hard to differentiate
I think more a vision is like
the reason people vision quest
is to be given shown
something
you know specific
that is in the realm of
real guidance
so that's a type of vision
where where like
God gives you
meaning and purpose
and you're like
oh my God I get it
you know like I know why I'm here now
and that's that's a beautiful thing
that have happened
where a dream is more like
an interactive world
in which subconscious material
is being surfaced
based on different
energetic interdimensional means
that are
observing you
and pretending to be
your aunt and uncle
and you know
that's the world of dreams
where there's a lot more
in a shared experience
that you can have a real
personal vision come in
and you cross into this layer
of the onion
where the mother is able
to speak directly to you
and that's
that's a type of communication
so dreaming is communication
so is vision
they're they both
are in that same category
but they're very different
in how they present
and then as far as being
in a collective vision
you know we're all
having a vision quest
in which we're all
having a vision together
in which we all are
assuming that it's just a base
reality
and it has become base reality
but it's still a vision
and we need to know that
in order to not be
tricked into thinking
it's an actual physical world
that will hijack
our ability to unbind
from the physical
and do the things
that really liberate us
as travelers
and so even though Carlos
went into all these worlds
he would say
that the greatest gift of all
is just being present
here in this dream
and so we do want the capacity
to take off
and experience these other layers
but we want to mostly
be able to be silent
and just simply observe
right here where we are
and allow
all the emotional waves
to move through us
that will allow us to truly
purify
because it's through
really vulnerable emotional
pain
that the wisdom comes
Toltec say wisdom comes painfully
and in driblets
and so people want to read books
and become wise
but you're gonna have to go through
the things
right and as you said earlier
the challenges actually increase
as you get stronger
so you're not ever going to reach
easy street
and materialism is a trap
so there's no way to purchase
your way into well-being
the money is an illusion
it's this false sense of security
that keeps people from doing the work
yep
so this is a really tricky place
you got it
one of my trainers in the past
he said that he had some
billionaires as
clients who sold yachts
or one guy sold yachts
and he could not get him
to feel his programs
because he literally felt
invulnerable because of all that cash
I know
yeah it's a very powerful thing
really it's really
and you don't get to take it
with you either
but therefore you know
so like all the experiences
like on some deep level
they crave to have it
all taken away
so they can have a real experience
right
they can't admit to that
because it's become this identity of power
and
so power is a real thing
and it's very seductive
exactly
and survival
right
you said that death is the teacher
or so how did you
how do you phrase it so beautifully
yeah
life is the arena
and death is the player
life is the arena
yeah
death is the player
you want to go deep on that
yeah death is is an advisor
they say
and it's the only one
that'll be honest with you
and it's very hard to find people
who are truly living
aware that they're going to die
right
that's what Toltec says
is the difference between us and others
is that we are beings
that are going to die
and so they don't waste a moment
they are engaging
with that awareness
and in a way
every moment is your last moment
because when your life flashes
through your eyes
when you die
it's all equal
like
it's just all the same
so this is my last moment
right here with you
it's not linear
and so
I choose to be here
I'm not doing this to people please
because you asked me to
or
I follow my signs and omens
I don't do things
I'm very careful with my time and energy
because I'm aware
that I only get so much of it
and I want to
I want to do the things that really are
truly
going to make me
feel alive
not just some
intellectual idea of evolution
I can't
follow a book or a religion
in order to be free
I have to become
uniquely capable of knowing
what I as an individual need in order
to to make the most of my time here
and so I'm not a holy person
I chase music
and go out
and work with tequila
and mushroom
and cannabis
and go into other worlds
with really amazing people
and I don't live by any
projected fears
of what spiritual people are supposed to do
and therefore I get rewarded
because I'm not
you know
in a limitation
that doesn't mean I'll always work with substances
I'm able to do
even cooler stuff without them
but I just don't want people to
get caught in these projected judgments
of limitation about how
or what our life is supposed to be like
because then you won't be
spontaneous and
magically engaging with
this place like
music's never been better for me
like the bands that I follow
are brand new
and just amazing
and this world is amazing
and you know
I love woke cities
and all the best food
and all the craziest things to observe
like
none of it's negative to me
therefore I have
a lot of freedom
to explore
and I want that for everybody
I want them to come out of any
contracted states
of spiritual projections
that are limiting them
from getting to know their power
and it's not an easy tightrope to walk
but once you figure this out
that's where like the G&M thing
can be really helpful
I don't think it's completely accurate
but
we are powerful enough
that if we
become energetically
liberated
then we aren't going to be
easily poisoned the way others are
because we've built our luminosity up
and our perception of reality is
magical and not contracted
nice I like that
in India they would talk about
the energy of
Satwa,
Rajas and
Thomas
three qualities being
light
is Satwa
more in alignment with the truth
and then Rajas being action
and
Thomas being
kind of like inertia
and so
in they you know as yogis
you want to be Satwik
you want to be full of light
and you want to be enlightened
and seen as enlightened
and act enlightened
and you don't hang around with
unenlightened people
and all that kind of thing
so it's it's a beautiful that
and they are
you could say more stuck
than people who are just honestly
in inertia
right then
yeah yeah
and it's very unpleasant to be around
them actually
everybody knows
and
can be a lot of pride
in the in the process of
of becoming so good
so yeah yeah beautiful
I love your trajectory overall
let me see where I would like to go
if there's any
questions that I've missed in the
chat by the way
I apologize for not
not paying a lot of attention
in the chat because I'm just hanging
on
hanging on the words
trying to stay
lucid with all of this
very deep knowledge
how have you yourself evolved
over your lifetime
what have you what have you seen
that because
your life can be
something of an example
not not a necessarily a map
for others
but just to see
you know that
you didn't show up
like this
I'm assuming
or I mean
I've already seen
transformation in a short time
do you want to
tell people what you've
come through and been through
maybe this could have been the
first question
and we'll make it towards the end
yeah I mean
I I left the world
you know I really left it
and I had all these friends
I was popular
I was very
smart in school
I was good athlete
and um
you know I just
I chose
to do something that
I sensed
was
more real
than the
what I thought was
you know I kind of
I kind of saw through
stuff at a young age
and when I found
somebody that could take me
into these other layers
that when I was you know
13 at first
and then 16
I just
I went
I went in that direction
really boldly
the first time I took LSD
I was 13
and when it hit me
I was like oh
this is how we're meant to
live
we're meant to be
and heightened awareness
we're not meant to be just like
in our minds
and so I
came out of my mind
and into like a more
feeling capacity
and I really
was pretty aggressive with
working with mushrooms
and LSD at a young age
because I sensed that
I just had a sense
that that would be helpful
for me
but I don't it's not like
I recommend that
some 13 or 16 year old
start doing that you know like
it's it's a really
tricky formula
that I gained access to
that I ended up making
it work
but it wasn't easy
it was really dangerous
and I almost got
in real
trouble
energetically
I had I had attachments
I had things that are not easy
to recover from
I you know
was in and out of many cults
because of
my willingness to learn
and unlearn
it makes me really vulnerable
to powerful people
that misuse their power
which is what happened to me
so I'm lucky to be okay
but because of
you know
having gone into the woods
with a backpack of 80 pounds
and just staying out there
and
and you know
going through such a strange
relationship with
survival
like trying
trying to actually
put yourself in a situation
where you had to trust
the universe in ways
that most people don't know
like I would hitchhike
to a new town without any money
and start over
and I would always work
perfectly
it would be challenging experiences
that I'd have to walk through
in order for that breakthrough
but this place is incredible
and it will
take care of you
as long as you're willing
to do whatever it takes to be okay
and that's what I learned the most
is that this place is
responding to your intent
it's a magical realm
it's a world of power
and if you step into your power
it will respond to your power
but if you are acting small
and you know
in a place in which you don't believe in yourself
or you don't have trust
in your personal power at all
then the world will reflect that to you
and it just gets more and more terrifying
and so I really try to help people
to realize when they've been enabled
that it's weakened them
I've met with a lot of women
who have been enabled by men
and then they don't have their masculine intact
and then they get ill
because they were not up
they were trying to use their masculine
in areas where it wasn't beneficial
and then they were avoiding the areas
of developing their masculine
where it would have been
energetically the very thing they need
in order to be electrically repaired
so it's so uncomfortable to work with people
that can help you see
where the holes in your consciousness lie
but that's what kind of courage it takes
and so I've been working with teachers my whole life
and if I would have waited to find teachers
that were perfect in order to work with them
I never would have found anyone
so I was able to take the parts
that they had dialed in
and work with just that part
and disregard the other things
and then I've worked with so many teachers
that I've been so thankful
for all the areas in which they are gifted
but I learned just as much from the areas
in which they were self-assessive to themselves too
so kind of have to go out and get beat up in this world
in order to have the experiences
you know that that we do get to take our experiences with us
that's the cool part
is that we are evolving
and it's through our memory
that our evolution is determined
and so that's why Toltec's recapitulate
is if they can purify that memory system
then they will be able to give that force
that normally consumes awareness at death
they give it a replica of their life experiences
through the completion of the recapitulation
and then that force rather than consume
your memories will take that
that replica and then let you go into the
what they call the third attention
which is where the first and second attention meet
where the where you can have
where you jump from vision to vision
and vision like you get to become a traveler again naturally
transition from this physical form
into an energetic inorganic being
so inorganic beings aren't bad
there's different kinds
and eventually we're going to become inorganic beings
we leave this physical form
and we go into these other places
and there's an alternative ways of dying
and I'm going to do my work
in order to have a really magnificent crossing
and it's going to be
my death is going to have to come out
me really really hard
because I'm going to become really strong
and and that's really simple
if you just really tap into the simplicity of that
then energetically you'll know
what kind of internal power training you need
in order to feel strong enough to say that
wow good on you that's amazing
yeah so so good
when it comes to say like the difference
this is something I just want to point out
I've noticed it for myself
I'm curious what you would say
around that that say plant created state
versus the one that you create yourself
you're calling it heightened awareness
do you consider every psychedelic experience
to be heightened awareness
or is there just to start
are there ones that like actually are more
like a bag on your head
and stop you from seeing
yeah I mean I think
heightened awareness is something that's separate
from power plants
but they typically
are they will move what we call the assemblage point
which will reveal other states of perception
which are separate from the original state
which therefore are considered heightened
just because you're getting a different angle
mm-hmm nice nice yeah
yeah that was the fun of doing inversions in yoga
like kind of left the yoga behind
because just like seeing the world upside down
is like oh wow this is really different
walking backwards the same kind of thing
yes I like that
you've got so many words to things that
you often don't have words for
the psychedelics I've noticed
there there is a pretty high cost to them
even if just physically
because the reason you get an altered state from them
is because it's poisoning you
right that's what psilocybin does
it's it's it's literally harmed to the liver
and so then
but is it for you is it a matter of
that is the the juice worth the squeeze or not
yeah I mean I I'm you know I don't expect to live forever
and I I I'm very much open to all the different
feelings of you know what feels like the necessary
thing to do with my time
and the power plants the price that they pay
is untold it's hard to see it's an energetic side
it's it could very much save your life
as well as it could take your life
depending on the way in which you work with it
so I think it's a really delicate thing
and it's personal to each person
I used to say if you're afraid of taking them
then you probably should
and if you're not then you don't need to
but now I'm more you know with each person
I just try to help them understand that
we only have so much time here
and yet we get to slow this all down
with intensity and like
give ourselves as much runway as we need to take off
and if you try to take off in a plane
without giving it enough runway
you're probably going to crash and burn
but if you're really listening
and you're you're slowing down the process
and you learn how to fly and all that
then you can have a really miraculous healing
say with a big macro dose
that could completely change the trajectory of your life
so that you are able to properly heal
but you you paid you paid a price for that experience
but it's so worth it when it plays out that way
so I just I want everyone to try to get
their intuition in is dialed in
so that they're not in a rule-based fixed fear
around any of it and then yeah this question
then how to do psychedelics in a safe way
I mean to me it's has to do with
becoming so in love with your existence
that you're doing them out of love
you're you're showing up you're putting them
in your hands and you're asking
does my do I really want to do this
and and getting to know the part of you
that is like your future self
because I think this is all already happened
we're like in a memory
and there's some rigidity to that
that there's only so much we can do
with the contract we're in
but there's a way to become liberated
within that rigidity
and so if I could slip off into another layer
of the onion this evening on psilocybin
and I have a profound moment here in Sedona
that takes me to such a
just such a deeper place of silence
than I've ever been
that I'm able to then you know
permanently be in that state
for the rest of my life
that would be really worth it
but it's not necessary
I could do that other ways
and I'm open to all ways
and but shamans recommend like
don't ever touch cocaine
and like there's certain things to not do
because of how detrimental they are
but in in South Africa the
angomos the way they reach heightened
awareness is they use alcohol and cannabis
in large and large amounts
and they have to trance dance
and keep taking it
in order to pass the test
to being able to be more powerful than the poison
as long as you're staying in that
trance dance it won't matter
how much you consume
but it takes a real shaman
to be able to do what I'm saying
so I just try to help people
figure out their limitations
and and understand
how to rewild
and not get caught in some sort of
comfy religious sort of dogma
because it's there's no real
way to test yourself
unless you're coming out of
all the yeah the stories
that aren't necessarily true
that the real truths happen
on deeper levels that aren't rule based
right and we always want the answer
are psychedelics good
or psychedelics bad
and it's just not like that
it's yeah and it's so much
even in the context of the moment
and the time
there have been
times of my life
where I have really used them as teachers
I received a great deal of lessons
and then I realized oh now I need to
actually go learn this for real
and do do this and implement it
and show I've learned
not just keep hearing
at some point there was a repeat
message and it's like okay I got it
I don't need to go back to the
grandmothers for that
for a while yeah yeah
most people don't integrate
they just keep going back to the
you know the ayahuasca stuff
they're just going back
going back and going back
and that they're just getting
opened up into these areas
they're not prepared for
and the shamans don't care
shamans are like I don't care
what you guys do
because they're in the middle
of their spiritual battles
with their other neighboring villages
and they're throwing energy
darts at them
and they're using those people
and those ceremonies
to buffer them
and it's crazy how intense
all that is
and that nobody's really addressing
the dark side of all that
exactly are we kind of caught
in the crossfare
there was a question here
do the inorganic beings
control this planet in your opinion
I mean we're definitely in a construct
it's a construct
and they are the reason
why we built civilizations
and we stopped being you know
nomadic and directly connected to source
and so we become harvested
and domesticated
therefore yeah that's being controlled
but that doesn't mean that
we don't have the capacity
as individuals to stop feeding
these forces and become independent
from them
and that's what Toltec's teach
is how to change your energetics
so that these predators
no longer find your energy palatable
nice nice yeah you taste bad
to the things taste bad
yeah yeah I love that
so good
let's see where we could go
I love you how you talk about time
is measured in intensity
I literally almost jumped up
and down for joy when I heard that
let's say I've had a long life
it's it yeah yeah it's so cool
once you discover that
then you get to slow everything down
intentionally
intensity you know once
when you can hang out in silence
for long periods of time
so much is felt
and so much runs through your
chakra system
and that's what intensity is
is the processing of all these
feelings
and so you know
shamans learn how to have ecstatic
moments
quite often
because lucid dreaming is ecstatic
spinning it in a circle
really fast for long periods of time
will unlock doors
and it will heal your chakra line
and make sure the vortex is spinning
healthfully you
you know I I do all kinds of
incredible things with my time
that make it possible for me to
yeah be
more and more capable of
more and more intensity
right and so sexually
everything gets more powerful
adventures
listening to music dancing
being in my own field
like people come up to me at music
and they're like how are you so in
your own world
because I'm not
paying attention to who's looking at
who or who's thinking what
I'm deep
and that ability I want everyone to
have
because you can tell everyone's caught
and comparing themselves
and reflecting and I wonder if
they're looking at me and
all that stuff just is so hard to
come out of
but once you do it's just like
oh thank god I'm no longer caught
and in any of that stuff
because it's just
it's a total hijack
so I like to walk in large cities
amongst large crowds
and I'm not looking at anyone
are there
everything's just energy
I'm just cutting through the crowd
like almost like I'm a fish
in the sea
just going wherever I want
and it's such a unique state of
attention to be in
but then you start to get pulled
out someone will
you'll catch something
and all of a sudden you're looking
and you're judging
and then you're looking around
and you're back in your judgment
of the world
and it all comes starts to contract
so then you have to like oh
shit okay
go back into the trance
and then that's where heightened
awareness is
it's like the clarity
the the direction
you know where to turn
you know which alley to go down
and which one not to
you get to to live in this very
adventurous way of just
going out for a walk
becomes very psychedelic
so there's so much to that
and you know I just hope people
find that for themselves
because it's a total breakthrough
that's beautiful yeah
I I credit you for returning my
I don't know what it is
but just the appreciation of the
psychedelic nature of of life
that but it's not like I
it's been underappreciated in my
life either it's just like
kind of renewed
through seeing through your eyes
and yes it's so many things
we have it as children
so really right
it's all psychedelic to a child
and and then going back
it often feels like a revisiting
of of that or you know people
might call you immature
and those kind of things
but it doesn't really matter
so yeah silence gives away
what I notice with silence
it's kind of interesting
when I have the discipline
to go within inevitably
it's because there's some
downward something
something happens
I get knocked
I feel hurt
or whatever it is
and it takes me into the silence
and then the silence
takes me into creation
cool
as just a natural trajectory
and then and then it's like
there's no time for silence
because you've generated
so much activity
through the the silence
and then and then it'll
something will happen
and it'll call me back
to the silence
and how do you see that
wave is that just
how it works naturally
typically yeah
I think there comes a point though
where
you know you fall so deeply
in love with silence
that you make it a priority
to do you know
regardless of what is going on
so when when
shamans are asked
what is the secret
they just put their finger to the lips
so there is a way to stop talking to yourself
and it's so intense
because if you go for like
a whole three seconds without
talking to yourself
then the world starts to to move
it's not
it doesn't it isn't what it
appears to be
you start to go
into such deep presence
that the illusion
starts to fall away
so it's very uncomfortable
to go 10 seconds
it's almost impossible
there's just so much pressure
on us to stay within the
within this illusion
and the only way this illusion
is able to maintain its
control is through
the the internal dialogue
and so
you know we learn
how to go into silence
as a means to repair
when something happens
and it's a beautiful thing
to discover
and everything happens for a reason
and probably the main reason
while whatever happened
was to get you back into your silence
but at some point
you can force silence
you can be proactive
about reaching silence
you could do the magical passes
to the point that it's just like
you almost can't not go into silence
because
they just start to affect you
in a very profound way
and yeah
so I just think it's a dance with
you know if you're
if you're in your thoughts
you might as well have fun
with them and be creative
and you know be inspired
and allow that process
to be enjoyed
it's not like beat yourself up
because you're in your thoughts
the shame and guilt
that people go through
over this stuff is terrible
it's not necessary
this is going to be
really really difficult
in confronting because
they're not even your thoughts
you're like having to turn off
something else's thoughts
by not giving it the attention
and that takes a really
powerful person to be able
to kind of turn
and face your captor
and that's what Carlos
Costa-Nayton said
is we either face our captors
when we die
or while we're alive
and we might as well
face them now
while we can still reclaim
our youth
because if we can get
our youthful energy back
our creativity
and our imagination
then these things
don't have a chance
at controlling us
nice
I love this stuff
oh my god
it's such food for me
I'm really
really loving it
we won't get through
all the questions
I know for a fact
can you
actually I didn't realize
that you have a client
in nine minutes
okay good good to know
excellent yeah
so it's a natural place
and maybe if there's
an opportunity in the future
we could meet again
for a second conversation
I'm thinking to go really
deep on the masculine feminine
if there was a second chance
so let's see if we're gonna
just start to wind up
really quickly
is there a message
that you feel like
humanity should get from you
for anyone with ears to hear
is there something that
you can leave us with
along those lines
oh I mean
just that invitation
to become as authentic
and honest
with yourself
about what you want
to do
what what you want to feel
it was hard for me to admit
what I wanted to feel
because I couldn't even
give myself permission
to imagine it
and so I
it took a lot of work
to just sit inside
of my actual desire
what is it that is
I'm passionate about what
what do I want my life
to feel like
or be like
or look like
and what would it feel like
if it was all the things
that I wanted
and all that was really
confronting but necessary
and it's like creating a vision
of what you want to do
and then following the feeling
of what that vision
is showing you on how to get there
and that's happening for me now
but just a few years ago
it wasn't at all
you know so I was
I'm so thankful to
had that breakthrough
and I was not
in a good place
I was in a dysfunctional marriage
all that stuff
but I still was able to
transform
my life by
just stepping into those
feelings that I had been avoiding
and it's so worth
doing
because we're meant to fall
in love with our existence
and I think that the fact
that we exist is a miracle
in itself
and if we could just
see that
then we would take advantage
of it and use
each day
in unique and powerful ways
exactly
if you're complaining about your life
and then
the bus
nearly runs you down
all of a sudden you're like
oh my life is amazing
thank you god
like that
right
yeah
seen that
and what's the best way
for people to reach you
say they want to take you up
on some mentorship
or one of your retreats
or courses
that you have to
to take
where do you like to be
yeah I mean all that information
is at joelchaffer.com
you know my
oh how did I get your website
amazing
and yeah
it's a great way to connect to me
and you can sign up for
a free 30 minute consult
if you want to
do some work that way
but also 90 or 60 minute sessions
are available
and uh
yeah we just
I'm in Sedona right now
we just completed an
in-person workshop here
over the weekend
it was life changing
the next one will be
and uh
on the beach in LA
in April early April
I'll be teaching at confluence
and speaking at confluence
in late April as well
so
yeah
lots of ways to connect
that's amazing
I will see you at confluence by the
ways
yeah I already made plans for my
son and I to go
wonderful
yeah
and so here in the chat
is the link for
his website
and you can also find him on
Facebook and Instagram and X
as uh
other options I did
share these earlier
so I don't want to keep you
because I know you're
just going down to the
to the wire here
and
but I'm going to stay on for a few
minutes
thank you so much Joel
this has been just a beautiful
I want to say all the words
encounter
it's really good to meet with you
and uh
I appreciate you having me on it
I look forward to learning about you
more on the 15th
and uh
we'll be having you on my channel
soon with that
so
thank you everyone
appreciate everyone that tapped into
this talk
and appreciate it Beth
much love
thank you so much
all right take care
you're welcome
bye for now
bye
oh my goodness
how beautiful was that
we probably could have talked for
you know I don't know
10 hours or something like that
non-stop
I
pretty excited I get to
meet him in person
in uh
April
I think you guys should all come
to confluence
we are going to have a
House of Free Will
event there
not event so to speak
but meet up
there's uh
I think
three of us going so far
so that's a pretty good little group
and uh
you're very welcome
accidental alchemist
nice to see you here
and uh
Joel I missed this one
I'll tell Tommy Hamilton
from JRad
you said hello
and you're going to be there
excellent Stacy Sunshine
fantastic
thank you for that
Jay Heredico
138
so
the way that conversation ended
just around
around visioning
this is
very synchronistic
I'm going to go right on the heels of it
and
talk just
for a moment
about a new course
so the last time
I fell down
if you want to go to Beth of Fresh Air
episode one
you'll find out
how my summer went
the injuries
the knock them down
the
you know when I'm dealing with
entities
interference
or just my own
whatever
it's hard to prove
but it really did flatten me
and it stopped things
I was
I was literally handicapped
lost use of my hands
and uh
so I didn't know how to come back
from the dead of that
and you know
a lot lots of healing took place
and
a lot of praying to God
and how I usually
will come from a place like that
it's been my life
has given me many experiences
similarly
and
so I decided to get out
and start talking to you guys
and have conversations
with people
in my community
and hearing from you
where you're at
give me one second
and so what I heard
is that people are having a
difficult time
to vision
right now
and to put anything out
in front of them
and uh
it became this
I've got this little
sticker on my desk
and it says
how are you supposed to create
when you think the world's
going to end
and so
based on these conversations
and getting these direct
I'll say downloads
for lack of a better word
I was going to talk down once
with Joel
but we'll get into that
some other time
I was able to hear
from people that
this is what I could
assist them with
so I have taken a lot of time
and energy to create
a course called
creator code
and this is going deep into
the deep programming process
and deep into archetype work
three archetypes
that are particularly poignant
around
I've coined a new archetype
called the alpha omega
which is beginnings
and endings
happens to coincide nicely
with the child
and the alchemist
the nature of the hero's
journey itself
as an archetype
as we create
through it
what the purpose of that is
how to
use deep programming work
to to get visioned
and to become the visioner
and this
I've done this
on my whole entire life
and it was one of those
like wow that's almost too obvious
to have
created that
but
there it is
I had to hear it
from you guys
and so
what I have done
is put together
this page
I'm going to share it out
and
by Stacy Sunshine
nice to see you
glad you came
oh and that just didn't work at all
came my notes are mad at me
so maybe it's not
time to share the link
this second
might be in another second
but what you can do
is go to my website
and the
in fact there is a link below
I believe
at least to my archetype quiz
so if you go
and take 10 minutes
to find out
where you are
on the path of purpose
Joel's going to be doing
my quiz
oh I forgot to ask him
if he did it
darn it
and
and then I will send you
a link to it
so for anyone
that signs up
people are already
starting to do that
before
or by the 15th
I'm offering
a three month guest membership
in the House of Free Will
this is my private
membership
where we talk
if you think I'm talking
being myself
here
on these broadcasts
then I am
but it goes deeper
in the House of Free Will
there's a lot more
we can just throw off
the gauntlets
or you know
what's the expression just
we can just talk freely
is what I'm mentioning
so
for anyone that signs up
for creator code
by the 15th
then you'll
get a guest membership
for three months
to the House of Free Will
so it's been really fun
there's a lot of activity
a lot of activity
in the law arena
that has fallen away
because I got so disillusioned
by all the
fake and gay law
out there
let's see if this works now
aha
so there's a link to
creator code
more information
and
yeah have a look
and see
if you want to be part of
what I'm calling
the maiden voyage
this is going to be
a beta run
because
I've been doing this work
for 25 years
but I've never offered
this course as
in its exact iteration
that it is now
so I'm looking for people
to help me co-create
that means
you'll be giving me
feedback along the way
you'll be part of the
creative process
in that respect
and I'll be making it
you know well oiled
machine for future
visioneers to come
so if you sign up at
my website for
either the archetype quiz
or you go to any place
on atbethmartins.com
you can leave me a message
that you'd like to learn
more about this
and I'm making an early bird
it is
going to be 50% savings
until December 29th
but like I said
for anyone that signs up
by the 15th
then it also comes along
with a
three-month
House of Free will membership
so I think that is
all for now
I also recently revamped
a course
and I'm calling it
deprogramming 101
because I realize
that people are
struggling to
hear about this work
but not really having
the basic blocks
and I
at this time
hadn't had a beginner course
I always will create
everything more advanced
first and work my way back
so then this is
a newly revamped
body of work
giving you the basic tools
so deprogramming
that I think
everyone should have
for a lot of the reasons
that we talked about today
and thank you very much
for all the stars
and the ohms
and the hearts
that's really good
what else was I going to tell you about
you can
apply to
work with me one on one as well
if for some reason
groups aren't
the best
place for you to get
the inner work done
and that's
totally understandable
some people
need to go faster
than they can in a group
although there's a certain
acceleration
in the group as well
and
one of the things
that I
appreciate so much about
those that I work with
is they organically
bond
with each other
I don't tell them to do that
I literally have groups
that
three and four years
after the fact
when I hosted them for a course
they're still meeting
every single week
since 2022
or 2023
or something like that
it's astonishing almost
I was joking to myself
I
I could pass
from this realm
but the work goes on
and that's like miraculous
so that's one of the major
things about creator code
in particular
is going to be about
connection
and how creation
hinges on
our ability to work together
Joel reflected that
so perfectly today
in terms of the community
and his vision
that he has for people
getting together
to do the work
so that's really cool
there's a whole lot of other stuff
and I don't necessarily
need to go in it
all
right now
but that's the main highlights
before I forget tomorrow
I am going to be here
for the Beth
of Fresh Air Show
which is a weekly
Friday afternoon
2pm Central Time
usually solo show
I started a series on cults
in particular
because I just
I've been in cults
and I feel strongly
that people should know
the signs of being in cults
and
like Joel was saying
we're all so porous
or a lot of people are porous
and we want to
trust and believe
in the goodness of others
but aren't really aware
of the interference
that's happening
and so tomorrow
we're going to
talk specifically
about the cults
of natural health
people don't think of that as a cult
but it's totally a cult
and if you get into discussions
with people
and start offending them
with the facts
then
they start saying
like I believe
and I believe
and it's like
well the truth
doesn't really depend
on anyone's belief
at all
so Dagmar Stotsen
Sova is going to be joining me
she is a member
of the House of Free Will
she's been part
of many natural health cults
and so we're going to unpack
that and go through it
and look at all the ins and outs
of how
you know
that operate
and for sure
from my side
how to get out
because
we want the truth
you want to
like Joel was saying
treat every moment here
to be of the utmost value
and so how do we do that
how do we
how do we facilitate enough focus
part of it
is that your vessel is
is working
it works for you
and it's not constantly
dragging your focus
somewhere that
you know
you're forced
to deal with that
and there's no guarantees
by the way
when people are forced
doesn't mean they do the work
it really doesn't
I've seen this over and over again
getting you know
smacked or hit
or some scary diagnosis
or whatever
it it
it doesn't guarantee
you still have to choose
to do the work
so we're going to have a lot of fun
with that tomorrow
and you can join us
at 2 p.m. Central time
on the Beth of fresh air
that was named by you guys
who would sometimes message me
and say that my
live streams are
like a breath of fresh air
so that's where that
thank you for that
I appreciate it
and yeah
just huge hats off to Joel
we are going to be
meeting on Monday
to do his podcast
the fun part is that
I originally
when I originally approached him
I was
offering to send my book
and would you like to
interview me
it took me weeks
to realize oh my goodness
I need to talk to this guy
on my podcast
and help spread his word out
so I do recommend
following him
and who knows
maybe I'm going to
take him up on some of that
private work because
it's
it's just so good to have
mentorship
doesn't matter how far ahead
you are
or how much work you've done
or how much experience
you think you have
it's priceless
to have someone to walk with
and reflect back to you
and all of that kind of things
so
oh yeah
welcome to Dagmar tomorrow
yeah I'm sure
I was wondering
or I was sure
you were going to be excited
about that
so yep
she's back for this
show in particular
all right
my dears
I think that's all for now
so I hope you've had
a good experience today
like I have
I feel high as a kite now
I don't know about you guys
but I'm definitely in an altered state
which is really fun to explore
and yeah
see you tomorrow
lots of love
I'm going to
play us out
with
something my son wrote
see I've got a
personality now with two shows
and
so I think that's it
so much love to you guys
bye for now