WEBVTT

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This episode is sponsored by Zano, the privacy-based crypto we use right here at the Free Thought Project.

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Zano.

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Because the Free Thought Project doesn't just talk liberty, we transact with it.

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Governments should be afraid of people.

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No matter what anybody tells you,

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words and ideas can change the world.

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Ideas can change the world.

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An idea whose time has come cannot be destroyed by armies or governments.

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It's too pervasive and we still have tools to spread the message.

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Welcome to the Free Thought Project Podcast.

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A hub for free thinking conversations about the promotion of liberty

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and the daunting task of government accountability.

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Here are your hosts, Jason Basler and Matt Agarist.

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Hello again, Free Thinkers.

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Welcome back to the Free Thought Project Podcast.

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My name is Jason Basler and joining me is the Free Thought Project Editor-in-Chief Matt Agarist.

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Well guys, it's been over a week now since we published our last podcast.

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It feels like it's been a month though.

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What a crazy week.

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We've seen the left now defending free speech after three years of censoring anyone critical of COVID.

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The right has started cheerleading for cancel culture that they once detested from the left.

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And of course, the conspiracy theorists have endless theories about how Charlie Kirk is still alive

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and various shooter theories and many people who aren't necessarily conspiracy theorists

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aren't buying the current narrative we're being presented regarding who killed Charlie Kirk.

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Now guys, if you're wondering what our thoughts are on the whole situation,

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definitely listen to the podcast we recorded last week with award-winning journalist Ben Swan.

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It's a powerful conversation that covered a lot of ground including reactions from both the left and the right.

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And as always guys, we tried to provide a balanced assessment not couched in platitudes or flavor of the week outrage,

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not stoking division or pushing one political faction over the other.

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We've always been clear about our bias here at the Free Thought Project.

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We're biased towards liberty, towards peace and accountability.

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And we've really never wavered from that being consistently pro-freedom, anti-authoritarian,

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while also stiquishing the flames of fear.

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Now fear is always used for political agendas and you'll find if you read our articles and listen to our podcasts

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that we're trying to empower you with knowledge, with facts and perspectives that move towards independence from the system,

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not cowering in fear, begging for it or more partisan fervor.

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So today we'll be speaking to a guest who is doing exactly that.

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But remember guys, this work takes massive effort, research, investigation and most importantly that precious resource called time.

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So if you do recognize how important the work we do is please take a moment to ensure that you are following the podcast on your podcast player of choice.

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Also take a moment to rate and review.

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It's a great way to help us get into more people's ears.

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And last but not least, if you've taken value from this podcast in the past, please consider donating or subscribing to our work.

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It's easy and it just takes a moment by going to our website, thefreethoughtproject.com

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$10 a month keeps our fire lit and keeps the lights on.

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So help us continue this important work guys.

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Alright, so our guest today is someone near and dear to the Freethought Project family.

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And lucky for us he was able to join us on short notice after our guest this week never showed up.

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So our guest today is Kevin Whitson.

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Kevin is a career educator teaching both high school and college students.

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And he's also a talented writer who wrote for Western Journal.

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And also guys, spoiler alert here.

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Kevin worked for us here at the Freethought Project for over six years, even after the Great Purge of 2018.

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Now he wrote dozens of articles during that time period under the name Jack Burns

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that were mostly focused on police violence, police accountability, the opioid epidemic and the drug war.

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Unfortunately, as the well of resources began to run dry for TFTP

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during the years after that massive censorship campaign that they waged against us.

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Unfortunately, we had to part ways with him, but he's recently wrote a new book

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and we want to have him on the show to talk about that.

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So, Kev, it's great to have you back joining the TFTP family.

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Welcome to the Freethought Project podcast brother.

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Thank you guys. It's such a pleasure to be here.

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And I'm glad Ben Swan could open this thing up for me.

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We like to give our audience a little taste of the previous podcast that we recorded the week prior

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because sometimes people don't get every episode.

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And, you know, sometimes we have to remind them how powerful each and every episode is.

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So this Kev isn't the first book that you've written, but it is the most recent.

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And according to your Facebook post about it, it actually took you two years to write it.

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It's called the Paranoid Mystics Guide to Ending Addiction Now Using Psychedelics.

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And Kev, this is the topic that you spent a lot of time covering at the Freethought Project

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and it's very much a part of our wheelhouse.

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In fact, about a month ago, we actually recorded an entire episode

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on how the state of Louisiana, Matt's home state, just criminalized cratum leaf.

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And of course, that episode, you know, it dug deep into the infrastructure of the failed drug war

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and the state's legal racket on drug enforcement and all the big pharma overlap,

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which I'm certain are all topics we'll be getting into today.

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But I have to ask you, Kev, like, what was the motive behind writing this book?

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I know it's a topic that you've written extensively about, but like, why now?

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Like, what was impetus?

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And can you share a few of your thoughts on the response you've received so far to it?

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Absolutely.

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Well, our listeners, you know, they're unaware, of course you guys are very much aware

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of the behind the scenes story that took place in our own personal lives, the Whitson family.

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And that's when we lost my first born son Cameron Whitson to a drug overdose in 2020.

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And specifically the 22nd day of 2020.

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And it was a day, obviously, you know, anybody can imagine, you know, getting the call.

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In fact, I was here in Arizona where I live and I was in the garage of my son's best friend.

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And I was getting ready to let those boys have this expedition that the motor had blown up in.

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And they were going to take it and sell it and use it for college money, you know.

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And got the phone call from my dad that they had found my son dead in his home.

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And, you know, yeah, that was the pivotal moment that took all of the research that I'd been reading about for years

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and brought it down into a gobsmack, you know, right in the face.

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And I think you can just imagine that, well, my life as I knew it was over

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and I was starting a new chapter of my life, one mostly dealing in the world of grief.

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And I've been a journalist, like you said for you guys, for six years and a year prior to that.

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And I used to be a minister of missions at my dad's church, a Baptist church in North Carolina,

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First Baptist Church Indian Trail, North Carolina.

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And I can tell you, even knowing the research, having grown up in the church,

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having served as a minister with my dad, there was absolutely nothing that could have prepared me for that phone call.

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And I tell people that I cried every day for six months and I did.

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And in those tears, and out of those tears was born all of the material for my first book,

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which was a simple reflection on my son's life and his struggles with addiction.

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And that book is available on Kindle, Amazon Kindle, and it's entitled,

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Grieving the Loss of a Child, One Man's Reflections on a Life Taken Too Soon.

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And that's really what it was, was just me looking back at his life and trying to make sense of the senseless tragedy.

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Wow, yeah.

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Well, as you mentioned, you know, we obviously knew when that time happened, when that came about.

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And, you know, we tried our best to console you during that time period.

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Obviously, it was something that, you know, no parent ever wants to experience.

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And the chapter of grief, I guess, and, you know, Silver Lighting was something that brought about this book.

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And the way that you pitched this book is, you know, you're trying to help other people work their way through this.

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And potentially not even allow it to happen in the first place, to have a loved one who does pass from addiction.

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And you said, you know, you had this chapter of grief in your life, and I can only imagine how difficult that was, Kev.

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And, you know, it speaks the world of your character that you were able to put words on paper to share this experience with others

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and give them some type of understanding of just how vast addiction is, how potentially damaging it can be to an individual

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and more so, more importantly, what to do to try to work your way out of that

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and how parents and friends, family members can help that whole process.

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Now, I definitely want to get into more of that here, and I'm sure we will, and we have a lot to talk about.

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But I have to ask, because I'm sure our audience is wondering, you call yourself the paranoid mystic,

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and that's not a label that you hear every day.

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So I'm curious, like, what that mean, that name means to you personally?

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Is it, like, being skeptical of the mainstream narratives or, like, tapping into something deeper and spiritual?

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Like, how does that lens shape the way that you think about addiction and recovery?

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And especially in a world that, yeah, you know, there is a big problem with the way that addiction is treated right now.

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So instead of, like, the clinical problems, you know, this is more of like a personal journey, I think, anyway.

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Does that kind of touch on where the name comes from?

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Yeah, you know, I've always been a little bit suspicious of just about everything, even going back to childhood, you know,

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and thinking about things. I wouldn't call myself a paranoid person, but I had always been, you know,

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suspicious of certain things, like what's in our foods, what's in our clothes, what's in the atmosphere,

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you know, things like that, and go down those rabbit holes to try to find out.

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And, but when my son died, something broke in me, something broke in my psyche, something broke in my spirit.

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And I started researching, thanks to a really good friend, by the way, who sent us a book on near-death experiences

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written by John Burke. I can't remember the name of the title, but John Burke is the author.

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And I was just mesmerized by what people had experienced at the moment of their death.

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And, of course, this was out of curiosity for me. I wanted to know, you know,

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I knew my son was alone when he passed away, but I wanted to know what he experienced.

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And so I set off on a metaphysical journey to try to understand more about, you know,

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what's above and below this material world that we live in.

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And I got a lot of answers and, ironically, a lot of comfort from that as well.

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And so I started gorging and obsessing on near-death experiences, and I would read book after book of those

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and online at the Near-Death Experience Research Foundation.

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They have an entire database you can just, you know, read until your heart's content.

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And so, like when I say something broke in me, I mean something really did broke, you know, did break.

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Nothing really much mattered in the sense that it had mattered before.

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And I was much more concerned with the unseen realms and the unseen world and near-death experiences

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and researching those helped fill in the gaps for me.

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And that turned into also another thing where, you know, which John Burke doesn't really address in his book,

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which is the topic of reincarnation, you know.

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And, you know, it didn't seem fair to me to try to be a good dad.

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I'm not saying I was. I mean, everybody in my family would tell you I needed help in that area.

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But it seemed unfair to me to have such a beautiful son be born into our family

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only to have that young man's life be snuffed out by drugs at the age of 21.

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A semester away from graduating with a degree in business and very bright young man.

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I mean, his IQ was very high.

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He got a GED at 16 or 17, went straight into college, finished three and a half years,

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fell off a horse with his addiction to drugs and passed away.

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And I couldn't quite understand the fairness in that.

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So I started researching reincarnation.

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Was it real? Is it mentioned in the Bible? It actually is.

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And I'm not saying reincarnation is a reality.

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Personally, I believe it is.

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And I don't think everybody has to reincarnate.

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But, you know, that would be fair.

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You know, I think that would be fair.

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You know, if my son passes away in this lifetime at such a young age,

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would he ever get a chance to come back and live a full life, as we would say.

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And so the world of mysticism and the world of metaphysics opened up to me.

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And, you know, just to be honest, I was looking for a really catchy logo.

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And it turned out to when I put the two words together, it turned out pretty good.

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And my good friend, Kevin Kelleher in Charlotte, North Carolina.

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Kelleher is his last name.

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I told him I'd let everybody know he's the one who designed the logo.

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And so yeah, I put those two together and I figured that just about everything in my life

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had prepared me for this point of doing this work and releasing this book

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because it truly can bring an into addiction overnight

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if people just heed what's being mentioned and what's being said in the book.

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And then take action. That's the big thing, is taking action.

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And I have some vignettes and some anecdotal stories to go along with that

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which I'm sure we'll get to later on about.

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Does it actually work yet? The program works.

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It certainly does, man.

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And full disclosure, I was given a copy of Kevin's book, The Rough Draft,

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last year when he actually offered me a chance to do all the writing

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on the benefits of Crate a Minute.

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Unfortunately, I got so busy with work and life in general that I never got to do that,

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but he ended up finishing it anyway.

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So it's an amazing book, Kevin.

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I mean, congratulations on getting it published and everything.

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That's awesome, man.

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I want to touch on something personal, what you've been going over just now.

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I can't help but recall that day that you told us all that.

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It broke my heart.

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It's the worst possible thing that anybody can experience in their lifetime.

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And I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, man.

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But I appreciate you really sharing that with us and in your book.

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You wrote this guide out like out of the pain you just described.

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And the grief that comes from that is something no parent should ever endure.

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But at the Free Thought Project for years, you've written some of these articles.

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We covered psychedelic renaissance, basically, for years,

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especially the research coming out of institutions like Johns Hopkins

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on using psilocybin to treat not just addiction, but treatment-resistant depression.

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The data is fucking stunning what's happening now.

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We're talking about single-guided experience providing lasting relief

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where the pharmaceutical industry hasn't even come close.

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And zero of these treatments come with homicidal ideation or suicidal ideation

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like the side effects listed on the pharmaceutical labels for these

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that are alleged treatments for these ailments, right?

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So, you know, when you were living through this,

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this exact kind of profound grief that kind of leads to this type of depression

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and what this research is focused on while investigating all these substances

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as a way to save people from the fate that befell Cameron.

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My question is, in the midst of this process, did you ever seek out these tools

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for your own healing?

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Like, did you use psychedelics not just as a journalist's guide for others

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but as the grieving father that you were during that time?

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Absolutely.

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And in fact, when I finished the book, I was sitting there thinking,

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I'm not going to be a hypocrite here.

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I'm going to actually put into place the things that I'm telling people can help them.

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And I did everything that is mentioned in chapter one of my book,

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which, as you know, Matt, is all about healthy living.

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And what I thought was, if we can just turn down the cravings for everything,

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not just for drugs, let's turn down the cravings for everything.

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Maybe this dopamine response that people are experiencing will diminish some

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and they'll be able to have more power in their life.

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You know, in the near-death experiences I've studied,

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they have told people who have died,

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you're healing people all wrong down there on earth.

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You're supposed to be using frequency healing, vibrational healing, and light therapies.

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And as you know, there's talk of med beds and things going on right now.

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There's talk of light therapies and things and these frequency machines.

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Most notably is the Reif machine, R-I-F-E,

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where Dr. Reif had created this machine that he claimed could heal anything

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and probably it did.

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But you know, as well as I do the dark entities that profit off of sickness and fear

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and have all the power put an end to that.

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But no, I did, Matt, and I went 30 days taking a micro dose of psilocybin.

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And I gotta tell you, even after the first day it was like, wait a minute,

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was I depressed? Because I feel great now.

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I feel amazing and I can handle the world.

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And that was just after day one.

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And I don't think I've ever shared you guys the story,

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but when I was a missionary living in Costa Rica, I got depressed.

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I got diagnosed with depression.

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They put me on an anti-depressant.

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Turns out it was the same one that Eric Harris was taking

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when he killed all those kids in Columbine.

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No, anti-depressants don't cause suicidal or homicidal ideations.

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Of course, it couldn't be that.

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It couldn't be something as simple as a pill that he took, right?

20:04.420 --> 20:05.420
Yeah, no.

20:05.780 --> 20:10.520
And I learned really quick that anti-depressants were not only unsafe.

20:10.920 --> 20:11.680
They were dangerous.

20:12.180 --> 20:16.120
And, you know, wounded me physically for years and years.

20:17.320 --> 20:20.700
So I jumped at the opportunity to not be a hypocrite

20:20.700 --> 20:22.360
and try out those things.

20:22.460 --> 20:24.780
Now, I will tell you this, it's my surprise, both of you.

20:25.340 --> 20:30.540
I've taken on two different occasions four milligrams of psilocybin

20:31.020 --> 20:32.520
and nothing happened to me.

20:32.520 --> 20:36.380
I'm not sure that I'm even, you know, a good candidate

20:36.380 --> 20:40.180
for psychedelic medicines because I didn't have a trip.

20:40.760 --> 20:45.860
You know, people who were using the same exact batch of mushrooms,

20:46.520 --> 20:49.920
I mean, they were tripping out and seeing all kinds of crazy things.

20:49.920 --> 20:52.900
And there I was thinking, oh, I think all I have to do is throw up.

20:52.940 --> 20:53.680
And that's all I did.

20:54.120 --> 20:55.600
So I'm not a psychonaut.

20:56.000 --> 20:58.620
I'm not an expert on psychedelics.

20:58.620 --> 21:03.820
I'm just a grieving father who recognizes that 800,000 Americans

21:03.820 --> 21:05.680
have died in the last 10 years from overdose.

21:05.860 --> 21:07.720
And somebody needs to do something about it.

21:07.800 --> 21:10.860
Other than the people who are just happy to take your money,

21:11.240 --> 21:13.980
put you in a house somewhere until you can't leave

21:13.980 --> 21:15.600
until your drug problem is gone.

21:16.320 --> 21:20.580
You know, the standard traditional approach to recovery doesn't work.

21:21.540 --> 21:22.220
Doesn't work.

21:22.760 --> 21:25.320
It not only doesn't work, it doesn't work at all.

21:25.320 --> 21:29.370
It's abysmal in terms of its success rate.

21:30.060 --> 21:31.580
And of course they're not going to ever tell you

21:31.580 --> 21:34.320
what the success rate of their recovery center is

21:34.320 --> 21:37.520
because it's probably close to 40% if they're lucky.

21:38.420 --> 21:40.400
So we've got to have a rethinking.

21:40.940 --> 21:43.400
We have to think again about how we're going to approach

21:43.400 --> 21:48.080
this topic of drug addiction, drug abuse, overdose,

21:48.540 --> 21:49.420
and overdose deaths.

21:50.460 --> 21:54.580
And I just, in my book, I said, look, let's just do this.

21:55.520 --> 21:59.780
Let's give people, their loved ones back drug-free

21:59.780 --> 22:02.440
in the quickest amount of time as possible.

22:02.720 --> 22:05.600
That should be our goal because they have to get back to work.

22:05.860 --> 22:07.660
They have to get back to taking care of their families.

22:08.220 --> 22:11.260
And in our case, we would have loved for someone

22:11.260 --> 22:14.360
to have given us our son back drug-free.

22:14.640 --> 22:15.580
But that didn't happen.

22:16.340 --> 22:19.380
It partly didn't happen because he didn't want it to happen.

22:19.900 --> 22:22.520
But it also didn't happen because the approach was wrong.

22:23.340 --> 22:26.160
Right. And actually, that's something I wanted to get into

22:26.160 --> 22:29.380
because we all know that addiction is one of the most

22:29.380 --> 22:31.400
challenging aspects of the human experience.

22:31.640 --> 22:35.220
And it's not just something that applies to drugs either.

22:36.040 --> 22:38.300
I think that when we hear addiction,

22:38.540 --> 22:40.920
it usually conjures up that connotation to drugs.

22:41.160 --> 22:42.740
But anything could be an addiction.

22:44.000 --> 22:47.960
Overcoming addiction, as I was saying, can be a journey.

22:48.520 --> 22:50.220
Anybody who's ever experienced it

22:50.220 --> 22:53.320
or knows somebody who's close to, who's dealing with it,

22:53.680 --> 22:55.440
it can only be defeated and conquered

22:55.440 --> 22:56.440
when the person is ready.

22:56.520 --> 22:57.860
And I think you just kind of touched on that.

22:58.040 --> 22:59.780
Nobody can really force it, rehab.

23:00.520 --> 23:02.200
While it can be a worthy endeavor,

23:02.580 --> 23:04.980
it only works when the person has made that choice

23:04.980 --> 23:08.160
for themselves that they really want it to be over.

23:09.160 --> 23:11.120
So much to know how we talk about addiction

23:11.120 --> 23:13.960
and even recovery still feels like it's stuck

23:13.960 --> 23:15.540
in this kind of clinical framing.

23:16.140 --> 23:17.940
And while that can be helpful for some people,

23:17.940 --> 23:20.000
I think it misses the deeper layers

23:20.000 --> 23:21.220
and the process of recovery,

23:21.400 --> 23:24.480
which is the grief, the identity shifts,

23:24.760 --> 23:26.560
even the spiritual reckoning.

23:27.240 --> 23:30.040
And I think your book leans into that idea

23:30.040 --> 23:31.880
of healing as a personal journey,

23:32.340 --> 23:33.700
not just some type of...

23:33.700 --> 23:36.580
You walk into a rehab center or clinic or something,

23:36.680 --> 23:39.560
and you just get some type of quick, magical, medical fix.

23:40.580 --> 23:42.740
So can you talk about how psychedelics

23:42.740 --> 23:44.920
do open up that kind of doorway

23:44.920 --> 23:46.840
and why it matters in a world

23:46.840 --> 23:49.420
that continues to treat addiction

23:49.420 --> 23:51.420
like a problem that needs to be solved

23:51.420 --> 23:54.460
instead of something that needs to be a journey and lived?

23:55.240 --> 23:56.260
Right, absolutely.

23:57.000 --> 24:01.000
Well, the term psychedelic can be translated

24:02.260 --> 24:03.580
revealing the soul.

24:04.500 --> 24:08.180
And I think that's the power of psychedelics.

24:08.360 --> 24:09.840
And in my book,

24:09.840 --> 24:11.560
I cover several different psychedelics,

24:11.600 --> 24:14.820
and they all seem to work in very similar fashion.

24:14.820 --> 24:17.300
And, you know, for example,

24:19.600 --> 24:21.500
in February of 2020,

24:21.760 --> 24:24.500
my son overdosed and died twice

24:24.500 --> 24:27.040
in 24 hours from fentanyl

24:27.740 --> 24:29.000
and was resuscitated,

24:29.460 --> 24:31.820
and they used Narcan to bring him back.

24:32.700 --> 24:34.320
Here's something really crazy.

24:35.160 --> 24:37.400
Just a week or so prior to that,

24:37.800 --> 24:39.940
an ex-girlfriend of his had given him

24:39.940 --> 24:42.240
a hero dose of magic mushrooms

24:42.240 --> 24:44.260
to deal with his addiction.

24:45.260 --> 24:47.400
And, you know, I've already stated

24:47.400 --> 24:49.380
he wasn't ready, and here's proof that he wasn't ready.

24:49.480 --> 24:52.400
Instead of using the magic mushrooms

24:52.400 --> 24:55.180
to reset his mind

24:55.180 --> 24:57.120
and reset his brain

24:57.120 --> 24:59.840
and his consciousness and his spirit,

25:00.560 --> 25:03.460
he gave it away to a family member

25:03.460 --> 25:05.500
who was really struggling with alcoholism.

25:05.680 --> 25:08.420
I mean, blackout drunk type of alcoholism.

25:08.940 --> 25:11.640
And instead of caring for himself,

25:11.640 --> 25:13.260
he was still caring for others,

25:13.440 --> 25:15.540
and he knew that this other person needed it.

25:15.780 --> 25:17.680
And that person took the dose

25:17.680 --> 25:19.540
and hasn't touched alcohol since.

25:20.040 --> 25:20.340
Wow.

25:20.740 --> 25:22.400
And that happened before he passed away.

25:22.460 --> 25:24.320
I took note of it, and I was like,

25:24.400 --> 25:26.720
wow, I can't believe it.

25:26.900 --> 25:27.900
I seriously can't believe.

25:28.000 --> 25:28.640
Are you kidding me?

25:28.820 --> 25:30.880
Something as simple as a fungus

25:30.880 --> 25:33.640
that grows on a calterd somewhere

25:33.640 --> 25:37.340
has the power to break addiction like that overnight.

25:37.960 --> 25:39.280
And, you know, I took notice of that.

25:39.280 --> 25:42.680
And so what I think psychedelics do

25:42.680 --> 25:46.300
is it allows the soul of the individual

25:46.300 --> 25:48.960
to see where they're going wrong in life.

25:49.960 --> 25:52.360
And I think ultimately that's all we really are anyway

25:52.360 --> 25:55.300
is we're eternal souls having a physical experience.

25:55.500 --> 25:58.780
And the vessels that we are given for this journey

25:59.280 --> 26:01.960
are susceptible to addictions of all kinds.

26:02.160 --> 26:04.840
Jason, you mentioned it just a minute ago.

26:05.400 --> 26:08.160
Chapter two is all about destigmatizing addiction

26:08.160 --> 26:08.920
for everyone.

26:09.420 --> 26:12.580
There's a story in the book about me meeting a teacher

26:13.160 --> 26:15.340
and her son had passed away

26:15.340 --> 26:17.720
and when I introduced myself as a grieving father,

26:18.440 --> 26:21.580
out loud in front of about 10 or 15 people,

26:21.680 --> 26:23.020
she said, oh, one of them.

26:25.040 --> 26:26.860
Now, I'm very respectful.

26:27.440 --> 26:29.500
And if that person had been a man,

26:29.680 --> 26:32.100
I probably would have asked very quickly,

26:32.200 --> 26:33.080
what are you talking about?

26:33.640 --> 26:35.100
But I knew, I understood.

26:35.660 --> 26:37.340
I had heard it before, you know.

26:37.340 --> 26:40.480
And it's, we have this very,

26:40.720 --> 26:41.680
you talk about an epidemic.

26:42.080 --> 26:45.000
We have an epidemic of judgmental people in this world

26:45.000 --> 26:48.580
who look at drug addicts and think that they're unworthy

26:49.220 --> 26:52.080
to even breathe the same air

26:53.180 --> 26:56.820
that quote unquote normal people are breathing.

26:57.260 --> 26:59.620
And I'm guilty of that.

26:59.920 --> 27:01.980
I'm guilty of having that same judgmental spirit.

27:02.080 --> 27:03.860
I caught my son smoking meth one day

27:04.380 --> 27:06.340
and I asked him, I said, son, you're hanging out

27:06.340 --> 27:07.080
with meth heads.

27:07.260 --> 27:08.360
What does that say about you?

27:08.700 --> 27:09.760
And here's what he said to me.

27:10.300 --> 27:12.480
Dad, they're not meth heads.

27:13.040 --> 27:13.940
They're just people.

27:14.960 --> 27:17.920
And man, it was like somebody punched me right between the eyes.

27:18.200 --> 27:19.440
I mean, hit me so hard.

27:19.580 --> 27:22.380
I realized that, you know, here I am,

27:22.460 --> 27:24.620
this guy who tries to give everybody the benefit of a doubt.

27:24.740 --> 27:29.740
And yet I'm using the very same terms that people use

27:29.740 --> 27:34.400
to stigmatize addicts as some type of group of people

27:34.400 --> 27:38.620
that are unworthy of love and respect and attention.

27:39.760 --> 27:42.820
And chapter two is all about how we're addicted to everything.

27:43.060 --> 27:44.480
We're addicted to sugar, cell phones.

27:45.220 --> 27:46.480
We're addicted to people pleasing.

27:46.900 --> 27:52.000
Some of us are addicted to painting our hair pink right now

27:52.000 --> 27:55.000
and purple and putting on toxic yoga pants

27:55.000 --> 27:58.680
and stuffing them real good full of whatever we've got

27:58.680 --> 28:01.080
and walking around parading like we're someone else.

28:01.080 --> 28:06.220
I mean, people pleasing and, you know, workaholics.

28:07.040 --> 28:07.560
Think about it.

28:08.420 --> 28:08.860
Workaholics.

28:09.020 --> 28:09.880
That's a form of addiction.

28:11.080 --> 28:13.820
And yet these very same people that I've been mentioning

28:13.820 --> 28:17.480
are oftentimes ones that are quickest to judge others.

28:18.520 --> 28:19.220
Yeah, man.

28:19.620 --> 28:20.760
I mean, speaking of judging others,

28:21.480 --> 28:23.000
former Texas Governor Rick Perry,

28:23.440 --> 28:25.360
I'm sure you're familiar with what he's been doing, right?

28:25.420 --> 28:28.180
He was a hardcore drug warrior in the early 2000s

28:28.180 --> 28:32.580
and locked up countless people for different drugs.

28:32.840 --> 28:34.840
And now he's an advocate for it.

28:34.980 --> 28:37.780
He's an advocate for the exact same thing that you're doing

28:37.780 --> 28:42.600
is to treat depression and addiction with psychedelics,

28:42.760 --> 28:43.760
namely ibogaine.

28:44.420 --> 28:45.460
Some of the studies that they're doing

28:45.460 --> 28:46.740
that are coming out of Stanford and shit,

28:47.460 --> 28:51.020
one of them is that it can resolve psychological opioid dependence

28:51.020 --> 28:53.560
on the first dose of ibogaine.

28:53.880 --> 28:56.380
80% of the people that went through this study

28:56.380 --> 29:00.880
on the first dose had zero dependence on opioids afterward.

29:01.120 --> 29:03.240
And then the people that received their second dose,

29:03.340 --> 29:07.380
97% of those people all were relieved

29:07.980 --> 29:08.880
of their opioid dependence.

29:09.080 --> 29:11.220
And we're talking, this is like a weekend.

29:11.860 --> 29:13.320
You know, this isn't a state,

29:13.520 --> 29:15.500
one of these expensive ass treatment centers

29:15.500 --> 29:17.060
that really, like you said earlier,

29:17.100 --> 29:18.420
don't really want you to get healthy.

29:18.820 --> 29:20.940
That was what we talked about on the Kratom podcast

29:20.940 --> 29:23.940
a few weeks ago, was that one of the main lobbies

29:23.940 --> 29:27.580
that were responsible for criminalizing Kratom in Louisiana

29:27.580 --> 29:32.320
was the rehabilitation centers and the sheriff's departments.

29:32.680 --> 29:35.060
They don't want treatments out there

29:35.060 --> 29:37.380
that people can go buy off of a gas station shelf.

29:37.560 --> 29:39.240
Now you can't buy ibogaine on a gas station shelf.

29:39.360 --> 29:40.760
You shouldn't be able to, you know,

29:40.960 --> 29:43.780
it's not as safe as like psilocybin or anything like that.

29:43.860 --> 29:46.620
But administered in a medical context,

29:46.800 --> 29:50.540
it's certainly showing to be a million times better

29:50.540 --> 29:52.140
than anything that any pharmaceutical

29:52.140 --> 29:55.160
has ever presented, ever, you know,

29:55.240 --> 29:57.840
and it's just wild to me.

29:57.960 --> 30:00.600
And like you said, like in chapter one of the book is,

30:00.640 --> 30:02.340
I think it's chapter one, it's, you know,

30:02.400 --> 30:05.840
you have to, you have to go down this journey.

30:05.940 --> 30:08.780
Like you said that Cameron gave away those mushrooms, right?

30:08.960 --> 30:11.520
But he had, he started phase one, you know,

30:11.560 --> 30:14.000
like before a single psychedelic is even mentioned,

30:14.380 --> 30:16.140
you like, you lay out this plan for people

30:16.140 --> 30:17.540
to get full medical workups,

30:18.020 --> 30:19.420
tests for the motherfucker gene,

30:19.420 --> 30:22.100
which I like to call it, it's the MTHFR gene,

30:22.520 --> 30:24.400
parasite cleanse and, you know,

30:24.420 --> 30:26.760
completely cut out the sugars, the processed carbs.

30:27.160 --> 30:29.420
I would probably even add stop scroll doom

30:29.420 --> 30:31.300
scrolling on your fucking phone all the time.

30:31.600 --> 30:33.160
You know, essentially you're telling people to stop

30:33.160 --> 30:36.440
being willing lab rats and reclaim their own biology.

30:36.860 --> 30:38.440
Right? Someone who follows these steps.

30:38.620 --> 30:39.020
Yeah. Yeah.

30:39.540 --> 30:41.360
Someone who follows these steps is like

30:41.360 --> 30:43.200
they're waging a personal war against their

30:43.200 --> 30:46.040
gut disease, systemic inflammation,

30:46.040 --> 30:49.360
the whole dopamine cycle fueled by the food

30:49.360 --> 30:51.140
and by the shit that they're scrolling on,

30:51.140 --> 30:54.080
on X and Facebook and Instagram and TikTok.

30:54.480 --> 30:56.000
From, from your perspective,

30:56.000 --> 30:58.120
how much of the heavy lifting in like,

30:58.160 --> 31:00.340
in the healing addiction is accomplished

31:00.340 --> 31:02.860
by this radical act, like of just reclaiming

31:02.860 --> 31:05.060
someone's, their own physical sovereignty

31:05.060 --> 31:06.940
before the psychedelic journey.

31:07.020 --> 31:08.980
Is it possible that for some, like the,

31:09.020 --> 31:10.820
the magic isn't just in the mushrooms,

31:10.820 --> 31:13.140
but in like starving the parasites

31:13.140 --> 31:14.680
and the corporate food poisoning first.

31:14.680 --> 31:16.780
And this is coming from somebody who is, you know,

31:16.840 --> 31:19.820
a huge advocate of psychedelics and treatment.

31:20.120 --> 31:22.100
But I'm just curious on your views on that.

31:22.340 --> 31:24.860
Yeah. You know, Matt, I used to be the editor-in-chief

31:24.860 --> 31:27.980
of Panacea, which was a health and wellness

31:27.980 --> 31:30.440
newsletter circulated in Canada.

31:30.960 --> 31:34.840
And I, of course, I was writing tons of articles on

31:34.840 --> 31:37.900
natural living and healthy lifestyles and things like that.

31:38.460 --> 31:41.280
But I gotta tell you, your question right there

31:41.280 --> 31:44.000
is spot on because in the back of my mind

31:44.000 --> 31:46.920
I keep telling myself, if people will just do

31:46.920 --> 31:49.880
what's in chapter one, whether they're an addict or not,

31:50.620 --> 31:52.000
whether they're an addict or not,

31:52.080 --> 31:54.540
if they'll just do what's in chapter one,

31:54.640 --> 31:56.260
they're going to lose weight.

31:56.960 --> 31:58.860
They're going to have clear-headed thinking.

31:59.500 --> 32:03.000
They're going to not receive an instant reward

32:03.000 --> 32:05.020
for everything they put in their mouth,

32:05.040 --> 32:09.060
which has to have some kind of effect on the body.

32:09.060 --> 32:14.320
But, you know, what you said about the MTHFR gene mutation,

32:15.220 --> 32:16.180
now just get this.

32:16.760 --> 32:19.740
It's estimated that 40% of all Americans

32:19.740 --> 32:22.240
have the MTHFR gene mutation,

32:22.600 --> 32:24.240
and many of them don't even know it.

32:24.820 --> 32:27.280
Many of them are probably hearing it for the first time

32:27.280 --> 32:28.980
on your podcast here,

32:29.100 --> 32:31.060
and they're going to go and look up MTHFR

32:31.680 --> 32:32.980
and they're going to find out all about it.

32:33.020 --> 32:35.200
It's a simple spit test cost very little money

32:35.200 --> 32:35.840
to find out.

32:35.840 --> 32:39.100
But after you find out that you do

32:39.100 --> 32:41.660
or do not have the MTHFR gene mutation,

32:41.980 --> 32:43.960
you're going to realize very quickly

32:43.960 --> 32:46.260
that you've been poisoning yourself

32:47.020 --> 32:49.020
with store-bought foods,

32:49.460 --> 32:52.600
with foods bought at fast food restaurants,

32:53.340 --> 32:55.840
with certain drinks that are out there,

32:56.220 --> 32:59.900
and I just, I cannot imagine that

33:00.800 --> 33:03.200
there's just going to be a lot of addicts

33:03.200 --> 33:06.780
who get through chapter one and start implementing it,

33:07.080 --> 33:08.300
who are going to get to the part

33:08.300 --> 33:10.220
where it talks about taking a psychedelic

33:10.220 --> 33:11.000
and they're going to realize,

33:11.700 --> 33:13.500
I don't think I have a problem anymore,

33:14.320 --> 33:16.860
because I don't even crave my drug of choice.

33:18.060 --> 33:20.440
I just wonder if it's going to happen, Matt.

33:20.620 --> 33:21.180
I really do.

33:21.940 --> 33:23.980
Well, I think that there's a massive awakening, man.

33:24.180 --> 33:25.740
I mean, I started doing these things.

33:25.880 --> 33:29.140
I started eating healthy and doing right,

33:29.200 --> 33:30.300
but I don't know which came first.

33:30.300 --> 33:32.860
It's like a chicken-of-the-egg situation, right?

33:33.240 --> 33:36.420
I don't know if I started eating healthy

33:36.420 --> 33:40.380
and exercising and making all these good habits

33:40.380 --> 33:42.260
because I took a lot of psychedelics

33:42.260 --> 33:45.020
or that I started taking a lot of psychedelics

33:45.020 --> 33:47.480
because I started eating healthy and doing these things.

33:49.560 --> 33:50.620
It's a chicken-of-the-egg

33:50.620 --> 33:52.120
and I'm not sure which way that goes,

33:52.280 --> 33:54.600
but I think that there's a benefit to both of them.

33:55.100 --> 33:57.320
Certainly, I wasn't as healthy when I used to do psychedelics

33:57.320 --> 34:00.340
and I used to just do psychedelics as a recreation.

34:01.240 --> 34:02.700
I never got much out of them.

34:03.160 --> 34:06.300
I would get drunk and then I'd eat a bunch of mushrooms with friends

34:06.300 --> 34:08.400
and I don't do that anymore

34:08.400 --> 34:10.980
because it kind of muted my experience

34:10.980 --> 34:15.060
and now I like to eat high doses of mushrooms

34:15.060 --> 34:17.800
and talk to God, basically.

34:18.840 --> 34:23.700
Recently, you were talking about the MTH FR gene

34:23.700 --> 34:24.900
and we just talked about that.

34:24.900 --> 34:27.860
Jason and I with our good buddy, Luis in Texas

34:27.860 --> 34:31.800
and he was experiencing some severe side effects

34:31.800 --> 34:33.700
from the stuff that he was putting into his body

34:33.700 --> 34:35.400
because he did have that mutation

34:35.400 --> 34:36.840
and once he started supplementing,

34:37.020 --> 34:38.380
I'm not sure what the supplement was.

34:38.500 --> 34:39.900
It was like niacin or something like this

34:39.900 --> 34:41.840
that he showed he was deficient in

34:41.840 --> 34:44.540
and it changed and his blood pressure went down.

34:44.740 --> 34:45.640
Everything else went down.

34:46.080 --> 34:48.440
It completely fixed him, basically.

34:49.160 --> 34:50.800
It's like a $60 test on Amazon.

34:51.060 --> 34:52.140
Read the reviews before you get them though

34:52.140 --> 34:53.520
because some of them have like two points.

34:55.120 --> 34:58.740
I recently participated in an ayahuasca ceremony with him.

34:58.860 --> 35:01.100
We went to a Peruvian shaman

35:01.100 --> 35:04.160
and it was one of the most profound experiences in my life

35:04.160 --> 35:05.920
but it also drove home the point

35:05.920 --> 35:07.800
that for a journey that intense,

35:08.020 --> 35:11.540
a professional guide is absolutely non-negotiable.

35:12.600 --> 35:14.140
You're navigating the cosmos

35:14.140 --> 35:15.880
and you need a pilot at the helm

35:15.880 --> 35:16.980
or you could...

35:16.980 --> 35:18.540
I mean, I guess you would come out of it eventually

35:18.540 --> 35:21.900
but it would be pure chaos

35:22.540 --> 35:24.460
and so your book rightly advocates

35:24.460 --> 35:26.660
for finding reputable clinics

35:26.660 --> 35:28.940
for heavy lifters like Ibogaine and ayahuasca, right?

35:29.640 --> 35:30.140
Absolutely.

35:30.400 --> 35:31.480
We've been talking about mushrooms

35:31.480 --> 35:34.640
and I completely recommend to everybody

35:34.640 --> 35:35.180
to do mushrooms.

35:35.380 --> 35:36.400
You can do that in your room by yourself.

35:36.520 --> 35:37.080
You're going to be fine.

35:37.260 --> 35:39.620
It's the number one safest drug on the planet

35:39.620 --> 35:41.340
found by multiple different studies,

35:41.480 --> 35:42.220
safer than anything,

35:42.660 --> 35:44.520
like magnitude safer than alcohol

35:44.520 --> 35:46.400
or even nicotine, right?

35:46.720 --> 35:47.360
It's up there

35:47.360 --> 35:48.880
but some of these other drugs,

35:49.200 --> 35:52.300
they need responsible medical situations

35:52.300 --> 35:55.280
or shamanistic situations to be taken.

35:55.560 --> 35:56.320
So here's my question.

35:56.780 --> 35:58.180
Where do you draw the line

35:58.180 --> 36:00.960
between the absolute necessity of professionals

36:00.960 --> 36:02.680
or for something like ayahuasca

36:02.680 --> 36:04.860
and the personal liberty of an individual

36:04.860 --> 36:07.620
using safer, more manageable medicines at home?

36:07.960 --> 36:11.040
What's your take on something like psilocybin

36:11.040 --> 36:12.320
which is, like I said,

36:12.420 --> 36:14.540
it could still be incredibly powerful

36:14.540 --> 36:17.120
but using a home setting without a shaman,

36:17.580 --> 36:18.900
it's not that bad

36:18.900 --> 36:21.280
but perhaps with a trusted friend

36:21.280 --> 36:22.660
or a partner as a facilitator,

36:23.020 --> 36:24.040
as you mentioned in the book.

36:24.460 --> 36:25.680
So how does the average person,

36:25.900 --> 36:27.120
the one that your book is for,

36:27.220 --> 36:30.100
safely and effectively take that healing power

36:30.100 --> 36:32.540
back into their own hands without a formal guide

36:32.540 --> 36:34.820
if they can't afford it or something like that?

36:35.180 --> 36:35.480
Yeah.

36:35.960 --> 36:37.300
That's a really good question.

36:37.560 --> 36:39.660
What do you do if you can't find a guide

36:39.660 --> 36:42.920
and you've got to take what you can take,

36:42.920 --> 36:44.200
where you can take it?

36:44.480 --> 36:46.280
Well, like I said,

36:46.340 --> 36:48.900
I don't have a lot of experience with psychedelics

36:48.900 --> 36:50.000
personally speaking

36:50.670 --> 36:52.880
because I was never really into that

36:52.880 --> 36:55.460
and the only reason that I'm even,

36:55.960 --> 36:58.640
you and I and Jason are even talking right now

36:58.640 --> 36:59.900
is because my son passed away

36:59.900 --> 37:00.440
over drug overdose

37:00.440 --> 37:01.880
and I want to do something about it.

37:02.980 --> 37:05.760
So right before I took

37:05.760 --> 37:08.820
the first four milligram dose of psilocybin

37:08.820 --> 37:10.880
I contacted the grower

37:10.880 --> 37:11.940
and I asked him, I said,

37:11.980 --> 37:15.280
listen, I think I want to do this by myself.

37:15.740 --> 37:17.220
You know, what do you think?

37:17.380 --> 37:19.400
He said, absolutely not.

37:19.860 --> 37:21.060
Don't, whatever you do,

37:21.120 --> 37:22.580
especially if it's your first time.

37:23.140 --> 37:24.720
So for first timers,

37:25.440 --> 37:26.780
probably not a good idea

37:27.380 --> 37:28.960
to do it, you know,

37:29.540 --> 37:32.040
in an enclosed space at all.

37:32.140 --> 37:33.920
But if you're going to do it,

37:33.960 --> 37:35.440
if you're hell bent on doing it

37:35.440 --> 37:37.120
by yourself for the first time,

37:37.560 --> 37:38.960
I would say that

37:38.960 --> 37:41.100
your mindset has to be right.

37:41.640 --> 37:43.480
You've got to pick the right setting

37:43.480 --> 37:45.560
and somehow you're going to have to

37:45.560 --> 37:48.600
work on reintegration of the experience

37:48.600 --> 37:50.040
because for you it could be

37:50.040 --> 37:51.920
quite different than it was for me.

37:52.080 --> 37:53.700
For me it was a lot of discomfort

37:53.700 --> 37:55.500
which ended in nausea,

37:55.500 --> 37:57.640
but I did experience the benefits of it.

37:57.840 --> 37:59.780
So just because you don't think it's working

38:00.520 --> 38:01.780
doesn't mean it's not working.

38:01.900 --> 38:02.580
It's still working

38:02.580 --> 38:04.520
whether you have a psychedelic trip or not.

38:04.900 --> 38:07.560
But so I would recommend to that person, Matt,

38:07.560 --> 38:09.220
to answer your question very directly.

38:10.040 --> 38:11.160
Make sure you source

38:11.160 --> 38:13.040
the mushrooms from a

38:13.040 --> 38:14.980
the psilocybin mushrooms from a

38:15.560 --> 38:16.720
reputable grower.

38:17.560 --> 38:19.180
Find a creek,

38:20.040 --> 38:21.060
find a lake,

38:21.420 --> 38:22.120
find a pond,

38:22.560 --> 38:24.500
find an irrigation canal somewhere

38:24.500 --> 38:26.640
where you can be in private

38:26.640 --> 38:28.300
and by yourself

38:28.300 --> 38:30.320
and near the water.

38:30.840 --> 38:32.640
And I would recommend putting on

38:32.640 --> 38:34.520
Native American flute music

38:34.520 --> 38:36.960
as a way to calm the soul for the experience

38:37.460 --> 38:37.920
and

38:37.920 --> 38:41.180
if you have to be by yourself, be by yourself

38:41.180 --> 38:42.120
but I would

38:43.200 --> 38:45.120
encourage people who are hearing this

38:45.120 --> 38:46.840
to get a good friend

38:46.840 --> 38:49.740
who's been on psychedelic journeys before

38:49.740 --> 38:51.600
who doesn't talk too much

38:52.220 --> 38:53.840
and who will just sit with you.

38:53.960 --> 38:55.140
Just sit with you. That's all you need

38:55.140 --> 38:56.220
someone to sit with you.

38:57.340 --> 38:59.080
Nothing's going to go wrong like you said, Matt.

38:59.480 --> 39:00.940
We did a story years back

39:00.940 --> 39:02.540
about a UK study that was

39:03.080 --> 39:04.500
not published because

39:04.500 --> 39:06.800
it made the alcohol industry

39:06.800 --> 39:07.880
look terrible and

39:08.740 --> 39:09.940
psilocybin was the least

39:11.800 --> 39:12.360
dangerous

39:12.360 --> 39:14.160
of all the illicit substances

39:14.160 --> 39:16.360
in the world of legal

39:16.360 --> 39:18.480
and illegal drugs and alcohol was the most

39:18.480 --> 39:20.440
dangerous. So you're

39:20.440 --> 39:22.380
exactly right when you said it is. It has a

39:22.380 --> 39:24.220
safety curve like no other

39:24.220 --> 39:26.400
substance on the planet. It's

39:26.400 --> 39:28.240
not to be feared no matter what everybody

39:28.240 --> 39:30.120
has tried to convince us

39:30.120 --> 39:32.180
with social media and with

39:32.660 --> 39:34.100
movies and things like that

39:34.100 --> 39:36.180
and dare to keep your kids off drugs

39:36.180 --> 39:37.880
you know this is your brain on drugs

39:37.880 --> 39:40.000
eggs flying, frying in pans. No, it's

39:40.000 --> 39:42.360
nothing like that. It is a medicine

39:42.360 --> 39:43.920
it's a sacred medicine it needs to be

39:43.920 --> 39:45.800
respected but you have to have the right mindset

39:45.800 --> 39:48.180
and going into it thinking it's not

39:48.180 --> 39:50.080
you know that you're a pro at it

39:50.080 --> 39:51.620
and nothing can happen to you

39:51.620 --> 39:53.740
might be underestimating it

39:53.740 --> 39:55.740
but the setting is just as important

39:55.740 --> 39:57.560
and you need a facilitator

39:58.060 --> 39:59.820
someone in the end to help you

39:59.820 --> 40:01.660
make sense of it all and I would say

40:01.660 --> 40:03.620
a good friend who you could talk about

40:03.620 --> 40:05.760
what you discovered in your trip would be

40:05.760 --> 40:07.840
a good way to reintegrate

40:07.840 --> 40:09.640
back into the world after something like

40:09.640 --> 40:11.960
that. Yeah, I

40:11.960 --> 40:13.560
believe Luis Fernando

40:13.560 --> 40:15.800
Mises is actually available for hire

40:15.800 --> 40:17.080
as a shaman too so

40:18.460 --> 40:19.740
you know they're looking

40:19.740 --> 40:21.220
for somebody reach out to Luis

40:21.820 --> 40:23.240
might help if you know him first but

40:23.800 --> 40:25.660
I agree with everything you just said

40:25.660 --> 40:27.420
Kev, I think you put

40:27.420 --> 40:29.460
a lot of truth down right there and

40:29.460 --> 40:31.360
yeah I think that stigma that

40:31.360 --> 40:33.140
we were talking about earlier in the conversation

40:33.140 --> 40:35.380
surrounding drugs unfortunately

40:35.380 --> 40:37.420
gets carried over into psychedelics

40:37.420 --> 40:39.220
which are just yeah healing medicines

40:39.220 --> 40:41.420
they're plant medicine to a

40:41.420 --> 40:43.380
large degree and unfortunately

40:43.380 --> 40:45.500
they just all get categorized together

40:45.500 --> 40:47.620
those campaigns the anti-drug

40:47.620 --> 40:49.580
campaigns like you know this is your brain

40:49.580 --> 40:51.680
on drugs and all that stuff it did so much

40:51.680 --> 40:53.380
negative publicity

40:53.380 --> 40:54.920
so much negative propaganda

40:54.920 --> 40:56.660
and it really did damage

40:56.660 --> 40:58.160
I think the

40:59.060 --> 41:00.660
reputation of these drugs

41:00.660 --> 41:02.700
that were not even necessarily drugs

41:02.700 --> 41:04.680
they're plant medicine right so it's crazy

41:04.680 --> 41:06.940
that that has unfortunately been the case

41:06.940 --> 41:08.920
and the stigma still carries over to this

41:08.920 --> 41:10.140
day and

41:10.140 --> 41:12.780
I agree completely that you know your mood

41:12.780 --> 41:14.720
your mindset your environment has

41:14.720 --> 41:16.900
a lot to do with the experience that you will

41:16.900 --> 41:18.680
get out of this plant medicine

41:18.680 --> 41:20.900
but I've had a few experiences with

41:20.900 --> 41:22.800
mushrooms and I must say like

41:22.800 --> 41:24.560
there is a huge

41:24.560 --> 41:26.700
profound change that

41:26.700 --> 41:28.220
happens when you do

41:28.220 --> 41:30.240
get to that level where you can

41:30.800 --> 41:32.440
activate the self-awareness

41:32.440 --> 41:33.960
the self-actualization

41:33.960 --> 41:36.680
and I don't think enough people in

41:36.680 --> 41:38.660
society have really done that

41:38.660 --> 41:40.520
they've really turned and flipped that switch

41:40.520 --> 41:42.760
it really is kind of

41:42.760 --> 41:44.460
helps you focus in the right

41:44.460 --> 41:46.300
direction of your own personal purpose

41:46.300 --> 41:48.420
and your own personal meaning and really facilitates

41:48.420 --> 41:49.920
that type of mindset so

41:49.920 --> 41:51.500
I would suggest

41:51.500 --> 41:53.840
if people are curious about these

41:53.840 --> 41:55.800
types of things definitely read

41:55.800 --> 41:57.980
Kevin's book but don't

41:57.980 --> 41:59.760
be afraid and that's something

41:59.760 --> 42:01.920
I actually wanted to get into here a little

42:01.920 --> 42:03.840
bit because some of these people listening might

42:03.840 --> 42:06.060
be intrigued by the ideas of psychedelics

42:06.060 --> 42:07.860
helping with addiction and trauma but they might

42:07.860 --> 42:09.720
also be cautious about

42:09.720 --> 42:12.000
they've heard horror stories about bad

42:12.000 --> 42:12.780
trips and

42:12.780 --> 42:15.740
I think sometimes too people decide

42:15.740 --> 42:17.140
now here call bad trips

42:17.140 --> 42:19.060
the reflection that they are meant

42:19.060 --> 42:21.100
to have in these experiences they call them

42:21.100 --> 42:23.260
bad trips because it's almost a little too overwhelming

42:23.260 --> 42:24.840
to face your ego

42:24.840 --> 42:26.960
to face what life

42:26.960 --> 42:29.200
can be about and existentialism

42:29.200 --> 42:30.220
and all that stuff but

42:31.000 --> 42:32.880
there is still a lot of fear and misunderstanding

42:32.880 --> 42:34.780
out there even as more studies

42:35.360 --> 42:37.200
continue to shift the narrative

42:37.200 --> 42:39.120
and personal stories so somebody

42:39.120 --> 42:40.860
who is curious but hesitant like

42:41.420 --> 42:43.100
what's one thing that you'd want them to

42:43.100 --> 42:44.760
understand about psychedelics and healing

42:44.760 --> 42:46.920
you know Jason that's a great

42:46.920 --> 42:48.860
question one thing I want people to

42:48.860 --> 42:50.740
understand about psychedelics and healing

42:53.040 --> 42:55.100
it's it was the most

42:55.100 --> 42:57.160
surprising thing for me

42:57.160 --> 42:58.900
while writing the

42:58.900 --> 43:00.460
book to realize

43:01.180 --> 43:02.420
that cannabis

43:02.420 --> 43:04.920
is a potent psychedelic

43:04.920 --> 43:06.940
and we don't even think about cannabis

43:06.940 --> 43:08.280
as a potent psychedelic

43:08.280 --> 43:10.320
but I'll give you I'll give you a

43:10.320 --> 43:12.360
little anecdote here

43:12.980 --> 43:13.920
I've been smoking

43:14.560 --> 43:15.000
cannabis

43:15.700 --> 43:17.360
thanks to my son by the way

43:17.360 --> 43:19.180
I have

43:19.840 --> 43:22.060
driving anxiety I had an anxiety attack

43:22.060 --> 43:24.020
on the side of the road my family

43:24.020 --> 43:25.940
had to come and get my car and drive me back

43:25.940 --> 43:27.860
home and I went to my doctor to get my

43:28.660 --> 43:29.540
benzodiazepine prescription

43:29.540 --> 43:32.060
refilled my doctor wasn't available

43:32.060 --> 43:33.500
the nurse practitioner was

43:33.500 --> 43:35.700
I went to see her she treated me like

43:35.700 --> 43:38.040
a drug seeker and would not refill

43:38.040 --> 43:40.300
my bottle of benzodiazepine

43:40.300 --> 43:41.640
which I'd had for 10 years

43:42.160 --> 43:44.240
for some reason she wouldn't refill it

43:44.240 --> 43:45.940
so I go back to the house

43:45.940 --> 43:48.360
pissed off and I tell my son

43:48.360 --> 43:50.100
I said I said

43:50.100 --> 43:52.360
that you know what wouldn't give

43:52.360 --> 43:54.360
me my script and here I

43:54.360 --> 43:56.000
am still anxious

43:56.560 --> 43:58.320
and still having trouble

43:58.320 --> 44:00.420
and my son the one

44:00.420 --> 44:02.380
who passed away leans over to

44:02.380 --> 44:04.260
me said dad I think

44:04.260 --> 44:06.600
it's time you smoke weed now I'm 48 years old

44:07.680 --> 44:08.380
I never

44:08.380 --> 44:10.480
smoke weed in my life my southern Baptist

44:10.480 --> 44:12.380
preacher daddy would whoop my ass

44:12.380 --> 44:13.140
with a belt

44:14.100 --> 44:15.820
I mean he raised me righty

44:15.820 --> 44:18.260
you know put the fear of God in me but I had fear

44:18.260 --> 44:20.340
of drugs too and from those national

44:20.340 --> 44:22.580
campaigns but I got to research

44:22.580 --> 44:23.580
in cannabis and

44:24.240 --> 44:26.100
found some sources there and

44:26.100 --> 44:28.440
and these guys were saying

44:28.440 --> 44:29.920
you know if your

44:29.920 --> 44:31.600
weed grower

44:31.600 --> 44:34.820
is a hippie himself and into psychedelics

44:34.820 --> 44:36.180
his weed will turn out

44:36.180 --> 44:37.820
more psychedelic just like we

44:37.820 --> 44:40.160
talk about plants growing better when we talk

44:40.160 --> 44:41.580
to them when we sing to them when we

44:41.580 --> 44:43.740
say nice things to our plants right

44:44.480 --> 44:46.280
so every we've got to

44:46.280 --> 44:47.520
get we've got to get this

44:48.160 --> 44:50.180
thing out of our western minds that

44:50.980 --> 44:52.360
everything isn't alive

44:52.360 --> 44:54.220
no everything is alive

44:54.220 --> 44:55.240
with the power

44:55.960 --> 44:58.060
of the source of all life that being

44:58.060 --> 45:00.240
I know when nobody likes to hear this word

45:00.240 --> 45:01.540
God himself

45:02.200 --> 45:04.160
God is in everything animism

45:04.160 --> 45:05.600
when I was in theology school they

45:05.600 --> 45:08.380
gave us like a one chapter view of animism

45:08.380 --> 45:10.040
saying that you know God is

45:10.040 --> 45:11.940
not in everything God is not in the plants

45:11.940 --> 45:13.900
God is not in the rocks that's just

45:13.900 --> 45:15.840
things that he can use to show you that he's

45:15.840 --> 45:17.760
alive if he wants to no I

45:17.760 --> 45:19.960
truly believe everything you see in this

45:19.960 --> 45:21.860
and this in this world

45:21.860 --> 45:23.460
that we live in is alive

45:24.060 --> 45:26.100
from our creator and

45:26.620 --> 45:27.940
yeah you're going to catch me

45:27.940 --> 45:30.020
touching trees and talking to trees

45:30.020 --> 45:31.900
and I'm very appreciative

45:31.900 --> 45:34.160
now of the fact that what I see

45:34.160 --> 45:35.780
is just as alive as

45:35.780 --> 45:37.520
the person I see in the mirror

45:37.520 --> 45:39.680
but weed itself

45:40.320 --> 45:41.280
weed itself

45:41.920 --> 45:43.960
is a potent psychedelic and in

45:43.960 --> 45:45.960
my case I smoked for three

45:45.960 --> 45:48.020
years before I started experiencing the

45:48.020 --> 45:50.000
ego death I'm smoking

45:50.000 --> 45:52.080
weed every night before I go to bed that's the only time

45:52.080 --> 45:54.060
I smoke weed I'm smoking weed every

45:54.060 --> 45:55.320
night and I start to realize

45:55.860 --> 45:57.360
what an asshole I've been

45:59.040 --> 46:00.100
not just to my

46:00.100 --> 46:02.720
son but my daughter and my other son

46:02.720 --> 46:04.060
and my parents and my wife

46:04.060 --> 46:06.140
and there I am apologizing to my wife after

46:06.140 --> 46:08.160
30 years of marriage for all this

46:08.160 --> 46:09.840
shit I've been doing and

46:09.840 --> 46:11.540
you look back and

46:12.240 --> 46:14.000
and I didn't know it at the time Jason

46:14.000 --> 46:16.180
that it was cannabis doing it I had

46:16.180 --> 46:17.860
no idea so so I'm having

46:17.860 --> 46:19.800
an ego death in northwest Arkansas

46:19.800 --> 46:22.000
with just my wife and I there we had moved

46:22.000 --> 46:24.440
out there to treat my daughter's

46:24.440 --> 46:26.280
illness the world's most painful illness

46:26.280 --> 46:27.980
complex regional pain syndrome

46:27.980 --> 46:30.080
and she had gotten all better we decided

46:30.080 --> 46:31.540
to stay just in case

46:31.540 --> 46:33.300
the illness came back and

46:34.040 --> 46:35.980
and so it's just my wife and I

46:35.980 --> 46:37.580
in a camper in northwest

46:37.580 --> 46:39.920
Arkansas and I'm smoking weed every night realizing

46:40.860 --> 46:42.020
that you know what

46:42.020 --> 46:44.100
a mess I've made of things trying to do it all

46:44.100 --> 46:46.000
on my own and cannabis is giving

46:46.000 --> 46:47.940
me these downloads almost

46:47.940 --> 46:50.140
every night you know you've got to

46:50.140 --> 46:52.020
work on this you've got to take care of this these

46:52.020 --> 46:53.860
are the things you've got to do in your life to make it

46:53.860 --> 46:56.060
better for everyone and I think

46:56.060 --> 46:58.180
to the person who's on the fence about

46:58.180 --> 47:00.240
whether or not they should use psychedelics

47:00.240 --> 47:00.860
of any form

47:02.440 --> 47:04.120
that that's what you're going to get out of it

47:04.780 --> 47:06.120
is this is who I really

47:06.120 --> 47:08.260
am and oh my goodness do I have work

47:08.260 --> 47:09.480
to do and

47:10.000 --> 47:12.040
and and then you have also it feels like

47:12.040 --> 47:13.740
you have the power to get it done

47:14.500 --> 47:15.920
so you know for those people

47:15.920 --> 47:17.860
who don't really want to do magic mushrooms

47:18.280 --> 47:20.340
or don't want to get into an ayahuasca

47:20.960 --> 47:21.320
ceremony

47:22.160 --> 47:24.120
or don't want to trip balls for 15

47:24.120 --> 47:26.200
hours with ibogaine you know

47:26.200 --> 47:28.360
you you can start with something as simple

47:28.360 --> 47:30.160
as cannabis but here's

47:30.160 --> 47:32.280
what you could do at night before

47:32.280 --> 47:34.240
you take your cannabis you say

47:34.240 --> 47:35.760
to the to the

47:35.760 --> 47:38.280
to the substance and we call it sacred because

47:38.280 --> 47:39.780
everything that is made is made

47:40.700 --> 47:42.100
sacredly we say

47:42.920 --> 47:44.240
this is my intention

47:44.240 --> 47:45.440
for this

47:46.120 --> 47:48.240
cannabis smoking session tonight I

47:48.240 --> 47:50.540
want this this and this out of my life

47:51.240 --> 47:52.360
or I want

47:52.360 --> 47:54.680
this this and this to come as a result

47:54.680 --> 47:56.140
of this experience

47:56.140 --> 47:58.240
and treat cannabis with respect

47:58.240 --> 48:00.400
that's one thing somebody could do

48:00.400 --> 48:02.360
another thing that they could do is

48:02.360 --> 48:04.200
educate themselves on the

48:04.200 --> 48:06.560
the risks and dangers of taking those psychedelics

48:06.560 --> 48:08.240
and Matt you mentioned something I

48:08.240 --> 48:10.380
didn't want to end the podcast man without talking

48:10.380 --> 48:12.440
about ibogaine because

48:12.440 --> 48:13.800
if there was one substance

48:14.260 --> 48:16.180
that this government

48:16.180 --> 48:18.320
that we live under could

48:18.320 --> 48:20.860
have allowed into my son's

48:20.860 --> 48:22.380
life that would have cured his addiction

48:22.380 --> 48:24.540
it would have been ibogaine and I found

48:24.540 --> 48:25.740
an Australian study

48:25.740 --> 48:28.740
during my research but I couldn't

48:28.740 --> 48:30.720
find it the second time when I went back

48:30.720 --> 48:32.780
looking for it I don't know if it got scrubbed

48:32.780 --> 48:34.760
I don't know if it's just the keywords I used

48:34.760 --> 48:35.380
or what but

48:36.540 --> 48:38.940
there were 10 opiate and heroin

48:38.940 --> 48:40.000
users IV

48:41.180 --> 48:42.580
and they were given

48:42.580 --> 48:44.680
ibogaine 9 out of the 10

48:45.740 --> 48:46.700
had instant

48:46.700 --> 48:48.720
recovery from addiction overnight

48:49.400 --> 48:49.880
and

48:50.380 --> 48:52.120
the 10th one did not

48:52.120 --> 48:53.600
you know why that 10th one did not

48:53.600 --> 48:56.180
that 10th one passed away from a cardiac issue

48:56.720 --> 48:57.740
so anybody who

48:57.740 --> 49:00.440
wants to engage with ibogaine

49:00.440 --> 49:02.500
really needs to do so in a clinical setting

49:02.500 --> 49:04.600
and I recommend places like

49:04.600 --> 49:06.620
Iboga Quest out of Mexico

49:07.120 --> 49:08.800
there's another one that a UFC

49:08.800 --> 49:10.100
fighter set up down in

49:10.600 --> 49:12.740
Tia Juana Matt you might know his name I can't remember

49:12.740 --> 49:13.660
wrote

49:13.660 --> 49:16.380
yeah he's on Rogan all the time I can't remember his name either

49:16.380 --> 49:18.700
but you just look UFC Ibogaine you'll find out

49:18.700 --> 49:19.680
yep and

49:20.360 --> 49:21.800
Iboga reset on

49:22.240 --> 49:24.320
Instagram there's a guy who promotes Iboga and he has phone

49:24.320 --> 49:26.400
numbers of people who can call Iboga reset

49:26.400 --> 49:27.320
but

49:27.320 --> 49:30.800
if I were an IV drug user

49:30.800 --> 49:32.320
and I'm shooting up meth

49:32.320 --> 49:33.680
or I'm shooting up heroin

49:34.760 --> 49:36.200
and I know one of these

49:36.200 --> 49:38.720
days you know I'm not going to wake up from this

49:39.300 --> 49:40.260
I wouldn't

49:40.260 --> 49:42.480
mind at all the risk associated with taking

49:42.480 --> 49:44.880
Ibogaine because there's a 90% chance

49:44.880 --> 49:47.420
that when you start shooting up heroin in your arm

49:47.420 --> 49:49.140
you're going to die from it

49:49.940 --> 49:51.780
and there's a 90% chance

49:51.780 --> 49:53.320
that if you go to one of the

49:53.320 --> 49:54.920
Iboga clinics in Mexico

49:54.920 --> 49:57.160
that you're going to not only live

49:57.160 --> 49:59.180
through your addiction you're going to have a thriving

49:59.180 --> 50:00.620
life after that

50:01.340 --> 50:02.520
it's a no brainer

50:02.520 --> 50:05.000
you know pick your poison pick your risk

50:05.000 --> 50:07.100
you know the one the one thing

50:07.100 --> 50:09.220
that you keep doing and shooting up

50:09.220 --> 50:11.340
isn't leading to a productive life

50:11.340 --> 50:12.300
so

50:12.300 --> 50:14.340
you know why not consider it

50:14.340 --> 50:16.220
you know if you're okay let's pick

50:16.220 --> 50:18.320
the farthest place away Vermont right if you're flying

50:18.320 --> 50:19.900
from Vermont to

50:20.640 --> 50:21.520
LA what

50:21.520 --> 50:24.340
what does it cost $400 $500 $600

50:24.340 --> 50:25.040
max

50:26.060 --> 50:28.200
$600 you could take a bus down to the

50:28.200 --> 50:30.340
border you could walk across the border and you'd be

50:30.340 --> 50:32.520
somewhere where you could get deliverance

50:33.300 --> 50:34.060
so I

50:34.060 --> 50:37.060
didn't want to end the podcast without talking about the world's most powerful

50:37.060 --> 50:38.660
and potent psychedelic

50:38.660 --> 50:40.540
that truly does have a track record

50:40.540 --> 50:42.740
of curing addiction and setting

50:42.740 --> 50:43.720
people's lives back

50:44.300 --> 50:44.940
on a more

50:45.960 --> 50:46.840
straightened path

50:46.840 --> 50:49.180
but does that answer your question Matt?

50:50.060 --> 50:51.160
Yeah man I mean

50:51.160 --> 50:54.500
I think we're always starting to scratch the surface of

50:54.500 --> 50:56.560
what the what Ibogaine could do

50:56.560 --> 50:58.140
revolutionary for this world

50:58.140 --> 51:00.500
I really do think that we're at a crisis of

51:00.500 --> 51:02.100
consciousness in this world and we could just

51:02.100 --> 51:04.280
scroll X or

51:04.280 --> 51:06.280
Facebook or whatever just to see that right

51:06.280 --> 51:08.300
I mean the more we talk about

51:08.300 --> 51:10.520
this the more research that comes out it's like

51:10.520 --> 51:12.620
there's a very clear picture that begins to emerge

51:12.620 --> 51:14.380
from these psychedelics these substances

51:14.380 --> 51:16.480
when used with intention like

51:16.480 --> 51:18.320
you said they foster empathy

51:18.320 --> 51:20.760
they dissolve the ego like you and Jason both said

51:20.760 --> 51:22.560
they reduce fear they connect

51:22.560 --> 51:24.420
people to this universal

51:24.420 --> 51:27.140
consciousness which I call God some people might not

51:27.140 --> 51:28.160
but that's what I call it

51:28.160 --> 51:30.680
you know we see it in the clinical data over and over

51:30.680 --> 51:32.040
and over again and I mean

51:32.040 --> 51:34.280
we're both you and I are sighting studies that

51:34.280 --> 51:36.260
we haven't even crossed paths yet

51:36.260 --> 51:37.820
and that's just what happens right

51:37.820 --> 51:40.360
and it forces you when you know see all

51:40.360 --> 51:42.040
the benefits of this stuff it forces you

51:42.040 --> 51:43.760
like to ask this fundamental question

51:43.760 --> 51:46.020
why would the ruling class

51:46.020 --> 51:48.220
want to violently prohibit these substances

51:48.220 --> 51:50.240
to produce these exact outcomes

51:50.240 --> 51:52.380
right the the official narrative

51:52.380 --> 51:53.480
is public safety

51:54.100 --> 51:56.220
but that transparency is so

51:56.220 --> 51:58.560
fucking false when you look at it from the

51:58.560 --> 52:00.120
at the societal destruction

52:00.120 --> 52:02.300
caused by legal state-sanctioned drugs

52:02.300 --> 52:04.360
right and like the alcohol and pharmaceuticals

52:04.360 --> 52:06.440
and from the inability of people

52:06.440 --> 52:08.340
to access these drugs or in

52:08.340 --> 52:10.800
these substances like the real answer seems

52:10.800 --> 52:12.340
to be that the state thrives on division

52:12.340 --> 52:14.500
fear population disconnection

52:14.500 --> 52:16.460
and it gives them they feed off that power

52:16.460 --> 52:18.300
they get from that division right it needs

52:18.300 --> 52:20.020
people to be tribal to hate their neighbors

52:20.020 --> 52:22.440
to participate in political theater to

52:22.440 --> 52:23.920
outsource their thinking to authority

52:23.920 --> 52:26.180
to find meaning and consumerism

52:26.180 --> 52:28.120
psychedelics are the direct

52:28.120 --> 52:30.400
chemical threat to that entire fucking system

52:30.400 --> 52:32.380
yeah it's no wonder they are legal

52:32.380 --> 52:34.320
right an eagle dissolved population

52:34.320 --> 52:36.060
is hard to manipulate with propaganda

52:36.060 --> 52:38.400
a connected population is hard

52:38.400 --> 52:39.680
to divide and conquer

52:40.120 --> 52:42.320
so like that's the grim diagnosis of our control

52:42.320 --> 52:44.240
system right and yet it feels

52:44.240 --> 52:45.860
like that prohibition as well

52:46.380 --> 52:48.420
starting to fucking crumble and I love

52:48.420 --> 52:50.180
it man I I see like

52:50.180 --> 52:52.380
once you do ayahuasca you can't

52:52.380 --> 52:53.940
go out there and dye your hair purple and say

52:53.940 --> 52:56.260
Charlie Kirk deserve to die right you once

52:56.260 --> 52:58.180
you do ayahuasca you can't go out there and say

52:59.280 --> 53:00.400
fucking liberal

53:00.400 --> 53:02.300
libtards are stupid you know you just

53:02.300 --> 53:04.860
these walls break down you see through the superficialities

53:04.860 --> 53:06.580
that these things that this world

53:06.580 --> 53:08.340
creates for us outside

53:08.340 --> 53:09.600
of our control and

53:10.200 --> 53:12.380
you start to see the world and feel a connection

53:12.380 --> 53:14.360
to it right this the science is

53:14.360 --> 53:16.380
undeniable and like people like you are

53:16.380 --> 53:18.620
creating the tools for these grassroots

53:18.620 --> 53:20.280
awakening man like completely

53:20.280 --> 53:22.440
outside of the approved channels and I fucking

53:22.440 --> 53:24.560
love it kev I really applaud

53:24.560 --> 53:26.080
your book man like what you're doing

53:26.080 --> 53:28.380
you being this driven

53:28.380 --> 53:30.340
person since this tragedy so

53:30.340 --> 53:32.400
five years ago dude it's like it's

53:32.400 --> 53:34.360
it's inspiring and I'm so glad

53:34.360 --> 53:36.240
we got to reconnect though but yeah

53:36.240 --> 53:38.440
yeah man after you know or before

53:38.440 --> 53:40.400
we go rather you know we always like to end on a white

53:40.400 --> 53:42.500
pill I think this whole podcast has been basically

53:42.500 --> 53:44.380
a white pill though but I do want

53:44.380 --> 53:46.360
to end with one last question man you could you could be

53:46.360 --> 53:48.320
quick to wrap it up I know Jason has to go but

53:48.320 --> 53:50.340
basically like I want to see if you share

53:50.340 --> 53:52.300
my view man do you see a positive shift

53:52.300 --> 53:54.240
on the horizon like where

53:54.240 --> 53:56.240
enough individuals choosing to heal

53:56.240 --> 53:58.520
themselves can fundamentally disrupt

53:58.520 --> 54:00.260
that entire apparatus of control

54:00.260 --> 54:02.240
from the bottom up absolute freaking

54:02.240 --> 54:04.280
loosely in fact if all

54:04.280 --> 54:06.520
you did was stop eating the food

54:06.520 --> 54:08.200
that the death cult gives you

54:08.200 --> 54:10.340
you might just break free from

54:10.340 --> 54:12.060
that system altogether you know the matrix

54:12.060 --> 54:14.280
people talk about and find

54:14.280 --> 54:15.740
out that you're much more connected

54:15.740 --> 54:18.360
to each and every person you come in contact

54:18.360 --> 54:20.140
with every day than you really think

54:20.140 --> 54:22.400
you are we're all eternal souls

54:22.400 --> 54:24.100
having a physical experience

54:24.100 --> 54:26.220
and I tell

54:26.220 --> 54:28.060
people like this love

54:28.060 --> 54:30.300
is all that matters love

54:30.300 --> 54:32.200
is all there truly

54:32.200 --> 54:34.000
is and when we are

54:34.000 --> 54:35.520
operating in love

54:36.100 --> 54:37.920
we are most like God

54:37.920 --> 54:39.840
because God is love

54:39.840 --> 54:42.260
and that same love

54:42.260 --> 54:43.980
God created this world

54:43.980 --> 54:46.120
for us to enjoy for us to be

54:46.120 --> 54:48.420
challenged by and you know one of

54:48.420 --> 54:49.840
those challenges I just see it

54:49.840 --> 54:51.760
Matt like you just said is

54:52.720 --> 54:53.840
rising above

54:53.840 --> 54:55.640
what you're told to think

54:55.640 --> 54:57.740
and embracing the potential

54:57.740 --> 54:59.420
of what just might be

54:59.420 --> 55:01.180
fucking beautiful dude

55:01.760 --> 55:03.860
hey free thinkers this is Matt Agerist

55:03.860 --> 55:05.740
and I'm gonna take a quick pause to remind you

55:05.740 --> 55:07.940
of something really important first off

55:07.940 --> 55:09.840
apologies for the interruption but if

55:09.840 --> 55:11.460
you're still here that means you're

55:11.460 --> 55:13.760
resonating with what we're doing and we need

55:13.760 --> 55:14.880
your help to keep it alive

55:15.540 --> 55:17.540
independent platforms like ours don't survive

55:17.540 --> 55:19.620
on corporate sponsorships or mainstream

55:19.620 --> 55:21.820
media funding we survive because

55:21.820 --> 55:23.680
of you if you're finding

55:23.680 --> 55:25.400
value in these unfiltered conversations

55:25.400 --> 55:27.600
and real solutions the best way

55:27.600 --> 55:29.340
to support us is by liking subscribing

55:29.340 --> 55:31.800
and sharing this podcast with your friends

55:31.800 --> 55:33.720
and fellow free thinkers it's

55:33.720 --> 55:35.360
a small act but it's a powerful one

55:35.360 --> 55:37.200
it helps us break through the censorship

55:37.200 --> 55:39.680
and algorithms designed to silence voices

55:39.680 --> 55:40.260
like ours

55:41.460 --> 55:43.640
this isn't just about supporting a podcast

55:43.640 --> 55:45.600
it's about standing for freedom

55:45.600 --> 55:47.540
exposing corruption and building

55:47.540 --> 55:49.300
a movement that inspires real change

55:49.880 --> 55:51.380
and if you want to go beyond

55:51.380 --> 55:53.520
liking and sharing we'd love for you to become

55:53.520 --> 55:54.940
a member of the Free Thought Project

55:55.480 --> 55:57.720
just head over to the freethoughtproject.com

55:57.720 --> 55:59.480
and click on the TFTP

55:59.480 --> 56:01.660
membership link at the top of the page

56:01.660 --> 56:03.700
as a member you'll be directly

56:03.700 --> 56:05.580
supporting our mission and helping us to

56:05.580 --> 56:08.020
stay independent your support is what keeps

56:08.020 --> 56:09.680
this platform alive and fighting

56:09.680 --> 56:11.540
so thank you for being

56:11.540 --> 56:13.840
part of this journey for sharing these ideas

56:13.840 --> 56:15.480
and for standing with us

56:16.720 --> 56:17.540
man Kevin

56:17.540 --> 56:19.440
thank you for coming on

56:19.440 --> 56:21.700
like having a last-minute edition

56:21.700 --> 56:23.600
like this Jason I usually like

56:23.600 --> 56:25.600
to prepare well before

56:25.600 --> 56:27.640
and we didn't have that chance to prepare but we didn't

56:27.640 --> 56:29.380
need to man this was an amazing podcast

56:29.380 --> 56:30.960
Kevin thank you so much dude

56:31.320 --> 56:33.620
it was really good catching up tell people where they

56:33.620 --> 56:35.640
can get your book and where they can follow

56:35.640 --> 56:37.600
your work sure so if you go to

56:37.600 --> 56:39.280
Amazon and you type in Kevin

56:40.980 --> 56:41.460
KVINWitzen

56:41.460 --> 56:43.580
it's spelled white sun without the

56:43.580 --> 56:45.520
w-h-i-t-s-o-n

56:45.520 --> 56:47.640
put it in quotations and it'll

56:47.640 --> 56:49.660
come up you'll see the paranoid mystics guide

56:49.660 --> 56:51.320
to ending addiction now

56:51.320 --> 56:53.640
using psychedelics and I teach

56:53.640 --> 56:55.580
people step by step how to

56:55.580 --> 56:57.420
source it believe it or not it's in there

56:57.420 --> 56:59.420
how to source magic mushrooms

56:59.420 --> 57:01.680
get them delivered to your home and do

57:01.680 --> 57:03.940
so with as little legal risk as possible

57:03.940 --> 57:05.480
and how

57:05.480 --> 57:07.860
to access plant ceremonies

57:07.860 --> 57:09.620
such as the ayahuasca

57:09.620 --> 57:11.500
where to go or how to find those

57:11.500 --> 57:12.940
iboga clinics in Mexico

57:14.040 --> 57:15.540
you know I think I've done

57:15.540 --> 57:17.500
my job I put it out there

57:17.500 --> 57:19.600
now let's see how many into how

57:19.600 --> 57:21.520
many people's hands we can get this information

57:23.360 --> 57:25.200
I love it dude we'll also have the link

57:25.200 --> 57:27.400
wherever you listen to this podcast the link

57:27.400 --> 57:29.560
will be below it Kevin thanks again man

57:29.560 --> 57:31.320
it was awesome it was a pleasure catching up

57:31.320 --> 57:32.880
with you brother thank you Kevin

57:38.000 --> 57:39.440
thank you for listening

57:39.440 --> 57:41.840
to the free thought project podcast

57:41.840 --> 57:44.200
and please don't forget to rate

57:44.200 --> 57:45.720
review and subscribe

57:48.000 --> 57:49.280
free minds

57:49.280 --> 57:51.160
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