WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:04.200 A lot of things that get talked about in the crypto space, you know, it's things that will 00:04.200 --> 00:08.580 eventually happen. We are going to do this. Well, the things that are being built on Hedera are 00:08.580 --> 00:13.520 actually happening. There's really no network out there that has more potential when it comes to 00:13.520 --> 00:26.240 actual utility than H-Bar. It's the oil to maybe Bitcoin's gold. Hi, this is Mike Maloney with 00:26.240 --> 00:32.620 Brandon Hargraves of H-Bar Bull. He's the H-Bar Bull. And Brandon, it's been a while 00:32.620 --> 00:38.460 since we talked. How are you doing? I'm doing great. We're having so much fun in the crypto space 00:38.460 --> 00:45.880 in general, but Hedera specifically is really starting to heat up. Yes. You know, it went up 00:47.020 --> 00:59.480 basically 828% from November 2nd to December 2nd. So in one month, 828% rise. And it was pretty 00:59.480 --> 01:09.220 spectacular. And so I am so glad that I had the opportunity to load up on some H-Bar very early 01:09.220 --> 01:17.840 on. It was quite a bit after we made episode 8 of Hidden Secrets of Money. It's really been a 01:17.840 --> 01:23.640 wonderful thing. And when it has risen up quite a bit, I have to rebalance my portfolio 01:23.640 --> 01:30.820 because everything gets out of whack. So I actually sell some crypto and I buy silver with the proceeds. 01:31.380 --> 01:40.200 And that protects me from the downside volatility. So anyway, there is a lot happening in this space. 01:40.980 --> 01:46.920 So just to remind all of the viewers, can you sort of describe what H-Bar is because 01:46.920 --> 01:53.720 Hashgraph has just taken off like a rocket. For a while, you could buy out of the penny. 01:54.260 --> 02:00.180 Take us through. Let the viewers know what it is first. Sure. Now, that great place to start. 02:00.600 --> 02:05.940 And we call those one centers, the people that were buying the very bottom back in January of 2020. 02:06.860 --> 02:12.740 But Hedera is a layer one network. It uses something called Hashgraph, which was invented 02:12.740 --> 02:19.340 by Dr. Lehman Baird. He's one of the founders of Hedera. And it has a lot of attributes that make it 02:20.200 --> 02:25.760 pretty special in the crypto space. And they created this public network around it. But not 02:25.760 --> 02:30.560 just that, they also wanted to have the proper governance. So to layer on top of incredible 02:30.560 --> 02:35.580 speed so we can process 10,000 transactions per second, but it's throttled down to that, 02:35.780 --> 02:39.960 we can actually handle many tens of thousands of transactions per second. And with sharding, 02:39.960 --> 02:44.020 which is already designed to do as soon as we get to state proofs, it's going to be able to 02:44.020 --> 02:51.140 unlimited scale. Yeah, it's infinitely scalable. Exactly. And then it has the gold standard of 02:51.140 --> 02:58.760 security, asynchronous Byzantine fault tolerance. It also has fair ordering. So you don't have 02:58.760 --> 03:03.140 to worry about front running, which we see an awful lot of in the rest of the crypto space. 03:03.580 --> 03:11.780 They call it MEV Maximum Extractable Value. But they also wanted to have proper governance. So they 03:11.780 --> 03:17.160 didn't just want a group of developers or just on chain governance or something like that. They 03:17.160 --> 03:23.180 wanted to have the biggest users of the network governing the network. So they wanted to establish 03:23.180 --> 03:28.960 something called the Hedera Governing Council. And when Manson Lehman, the two founders were 03:28.960 --> 03:35.200 dreaming this up, they said, well, we want to have, we want to make this network fit for purpose for 03:35.200 --> 03:40.780 enterprise use cases, mission critical enterprise use cases. And if we can meet the needs of them, 03:41.020 --> 03:45.620 we can meet the needs of everyone. So let's go find some enterprises to help us govern this 03:45.620 --> 03:52.600 network. And so they wanted Fortune 500 level entities throughout the world on different 03:52.600 --> 03:58.180 continents and in different industries to be able to govern the network. So when they first 03:58.180 --> 04:02.980 said this, people thought they were a little bit crazy, but now we're down the line and we have 32 04:02.980 --> 04:09.340 of these council members. They include Google, Deutsche Telecom, IBM, Nomura, you can go pretty 04:09.340 --> 04:15.160 much all around the world. We have 32 of them all on that level of different enterprises that 04:15.160 --> 04:20.960 have expertise in different fields from law to tech to banking and so forth. 04:20.960 --> 04:28.140 You left out Boeing and there's some other really big names in here globally. 04:28.580 --> 04:32.720 So yeah, we'll mention a few as we go through here as I talk about some of the use cases. 04:33.100 --> 04:37.740 How many spots are left open on the Governing Council? 04:38.200 --> 04:41.680 So I believe we are up to 32, so it's going to be 39 total. 04:41.980 --> 04:47.260 I hope that either Tesla or SpaceX gets on that list. I'm really hoping. 04:47.780 --> 04:51.440 I'm hoping as well. We all are. But we'll touch on some of that as well. 04:51.680 --> 04:56.420 Elon Musk, if you're out there, investigate it. 04:57.740 --> 05:04.620 Go ahead. And this network has different services that you can do on top of it. 05:04.820 --> 05:08.560 It's similar to Ethereum. It's very versatile. It can do a lot of different things, 05:08.680 --> 05:12.960 but we have a few services. We have just the cryptocurrency service, which allows you to 05:12.960 --> 05:19.600 send the native cryptocurrency H bar back and forth. We also have a smart contract service, 05:19.640 --> 05:23.140 which is really versatile, but it's not quite as efficient as some of the other things. 05:23.280 --> 05:27.140 We have a consensus service, which is like an online notary. 05:27.580 --> 05:31.500 And then we also have a token service. So with a lot of these other networks, 05:31.640 --> 05:37.920 when they create tokens and that can represent anything from just loyalty points or 05:37.920 --> 05:43.500 a stable coin, so a currency or it could be a security like a stock or a bond, 05:43.900 --> 05:48.240 when you create these tokens, if you create them with a smart contract like on other networks, 05:48.560 --> 05:54.060 you reduce the efficiency by like 99%. But if you do it at the base layer, 05:54.340 --> 05:58.200 you get all the efficiency of the base layer network. So you can get that 10,000 transactions 05:58.200 --> 06:03.240 per second. You can send transactions in just a few seconds to finality on our network. 06:03.800 --> 06:10.420 And so you get all those benefits of having that token service. So you can use the smart contract 06:10.420 --> 06:14.800 service and the token service together to really create some pretty amazing things. 06:15.260 --> 06:21.440 Yeah, you know, I just moved some from a wallet that I had to Coinbase, 06:21.700 --> 06:25.980 and it took about a second to a second and a half to have 06:25.980 --> 06:33.040 credible tokens on Coinbase from a private wallet. And so the speed 06:33.860 --> 06:40.680 is absolutely amazing. Is there any crypto out there where Hashgraph can't do the same function 06:41.260 --> 06:44.520 faster and more secure? 06:44.980 --> 06:48.880 I can't think of anything, Mike. Pretty much every vertical you can think of 06:48.880 --> 06:53.060 from gaming to real-world asset tokenization, decentralized physical infrastructure, 06:53.060 --> 06:56.900 Hedera is making strides in every single one of these verticals. 06:56.900 --> 07:01.140 That's one of the things that, you know, we go through these four-year crypto cycles and 07:01.920 --> 07:06.600 there's always, you know, a new thing coming along each time. But a lot of times, 07:07.260 --> 07:10.740 some of these really interesting use cases get left by the side of the road. And what 07:10.740 --> 07:14.860 Hedera has been doing is kind of picking them up, shining them up and making them special 07:14.860 --> 07:19.100 again. What we've seen, we've had these four-year cycles where we'll see this huge 07:19.100 --> 07:24.020 run-up in this new technology as far as the prices go and then it'll kind of drop off. 07:24.140 --> 07:29.720 And each one kind of has its own narrative. We had one in 2013 going into 2014, 2017, 07:30.040 --> 07:35.740 2021. And it looks like we're just entering a new one now. And they all have their own, 07:36.000 --> 07:43.560 you know, tweak. In 2017, retail was kind of entering the space. In 2020, going into 21, 07:43.560 --> 07:48.600 it was, we have now enterprises that are actually buying Bitcoin and buying crypto. 07:48.820 --> 07:55.560 We had micro strategies. We had Tesla, or yeah, it was Tesla. Yeah. And then we had Square. They 07:55.560 --> 08:01.820 weren't kind of entering the space. And we also had, going back to 2017, I was kind of crossing 08:01.820 --> 08:08.200 my wires there. We also had the ICO boom. This one, it's a little bit different. So now we 08:08.200 --> 08:14.360 have ETFs. So it's a lot easier to get involved with these different products. We have Bitcoin 08:14.360 --> 08:18.640 had their ETFs in the very beginning of this year and several of them launched. 08:18.960 --> 08:27.220 And then we also had an ETF for Ethereum. So the native cryptocurrency for the Ethereum network. 08:28.260 --> 08:32.880 Now we're starting to see some other ones get filed. And H-Bar is included in that. 08:33.000 --> 08:36.780 And we can talk about that a little bit later. But I think the big impetus for the run-up 08:36.780 --> 08:43.360 that we've seen lately has been the regulatory environment or the perceived change in the 08:43.360 --> 08:48.000 regulatory environment. It's been pretty hostile over the past few years under the past administration. 08:48.400 --> 08:51.360 But the administration that's going to be coming in under Trump, 08:51.580 --> 08:56.060 it seems like it's going to be much more conducive to growth in the crypto industry. 08:56.680 --> 09:02.380 And also during the past four years, there's been a bunch of different crackdowns on 09:02.380 --> 09:08.220 cryptocurrencies. Most of them have been the ones that actually have use, can actually do something. 09:08.780 --> 09:13.420 And that's allowed Bitcoin to kind of had a free pass, Ethereum a little bit less so, 09:13.480 --> 09:18.300 but kind of had a free pass. And then the meme coins, because they served absolutely no purpose, 09:18.600 --> 09:24.300 they also kind of got a free pass. Well, since the election and people know that 09:24.300 --> 09:30.120 there's going to be at least some clear sailing ahead of us, it's allowed us to, 09:31.380 --> 09:36.640 we'll say shift back over, or the focus of the market has shifted over to the tokens that have 09:37.180 --> 09:42.780 utility, can actually do something. And that's the real promise of crypto. And there's really 09:42.780 --> 09:47.500 no network out there that has more potential when it comes to actual utility than H-Bar. 09:47.820 --> 09:51.940 All of these utility tokens, as we call them, have seen a pretty good run-up, 09:52.060 --> 09:55.880 but H-Bar has been outperforming. I know when we were at the bottom of the market, 09:57.540 --> 10:02.460 we'll say we are at about 50 on coin market cap. So that's the list of tokens and how much 10:02.460 --> 10:07.780 they're worth. We're already up into the team. So we've pretty much outperformed fairly well. 10:07.840 --> 10:11.520 And I think that comes down to people realizing that Hadera has utility, 10:11.780 --> 10:14.920 there's a good chance that it's going to be in the clear from a regulatory standpoint. 10:14.980 --> 10:18.280 And then once they jump into Hadera, and we're going to go through some of these rabbit 10:18.280 --> 10:22.800 holes, now they go down these rabbit holes and really realize how much potential is there. 10:22.800 --> 10:32.120 Yeah. I think you hit something like 16 or 15. It's 18th biggest market cap right now. 10:33.140 --> 10:38.920 One of the things that we were talking about the functioning of it, 10:40.800 --> 10:46.140 when I look at this, it's a distributed ledger. This is the big thing, a full consensus 10:46.140 --> 10:53.140 distributed ledger. And you can protect things from hacking on a distributed ledger, 10:53.260 --> 10:58.540 because you're making whatever it is that you're putting into this network, 10:58.600 --> 11:06.080 you're making it much, much more secure. Right now, we're practically on the verge of World War 11:06.080 --> 11:11.960 III. World War III is going to look very different than any other wars. We have a very 11:11.960 --> 11:19.000 vulnerable power grid right now. We have a very vulnerable water system in the United States. 11:19.580 --> 11:28.020 Could our water distribution and power grid be, I mean, you can use Hashgraph for tracking inventory, 11:28.040 --> 11:33.720 correct? Oh, absolutely. There's a lot of supply chain use cases out there, but you talked about 11:33.720 --> 11:38.640 water. One of the things that was experimented with early on, and we don't know which one 11:38.640 --> 11:44.700 of these use cases is going to catch the most fire, but one of the things that was being done was they 11:44.700 --> 11:50.520 had sensors that were hooked up to the internet that were pinging water or air quality and things like 11:50.520 --> 11:56.520 that, and putting that on the ledger using the Hedera Consensus Service so anybody can check it. 11:56.920 --> 12:02.200 And once it's on the ledger, we know that's accurate and that's the online notary. We're 12:02.200 --> 12:06.180 making sure that the provenance of that information is valid. So it certainly has a lot 12:06.180 --> 12:10.000 of applications there. Yeah. Can Bitcoin do any of this? 12:12.880 --> 12:17.080 Certainly not the way Hedera can. There's certain things that you could certainly put on there, 12:17.120 --> 12:22.920 but as far as the efficiency, the difference is many orders of magnitude as far as the efficiency 12:22.920 --> 12:27.500 between the two networks. They serve just different purposes. Bitcoin might be a store of 12:27.500 --> 12:33.420 value, not as good as gold and silver in my view, but Hedera does a completely different 12:33.420 --> 12:39.700 thing. It's the utility. It does that real world asset tokenization to facilitate exchanges. 12:40.180 --> 12:44.140 It's that provenance of data. It can be decentralized physical infrastructure, 12:44.340 --> 12:48.000 things along those lines. It's the oil to maybe Bitcoin's gold. 12:49.820 --> 12:57.080 Okay. Good description. You were talking about some real world physical assets being able to 12:57.080 --> 13:03.540 put on the hash graph. People want to say blockchain and it's not a blockchain. It's 13:04.040 --> 13:10.640 the graph of hashes. That's it. So yeah, real world asset tokenization. Now we're talking 13:10.640 --> 13:14.140 about all kinds of things. So it could be stocks and bonds. It could be currencies. 13:14.480 --> 13:18.200 They're all going to be tokenized. I have no doubt in my mind when you have something 13:18.200 --> 13:22.380 that is this much more efficient, we'll say with payments, you're transferring money. 13:23.120 --> 13:28.300 Hedera is a thousand times more efficient than the legacy system. So Visa, it's a thousand times 13:28.300 --> 13:32.540 more efficient. So there's no question that we're going to see things being tokenized. 13:32.780 --> 13:37.520 And we're seeing that happening continuously on Hedera. So Red Swan is doing that with real 13:37.520 --> 13:44.040 estate. We have teams like Diamond Standard, which is doing it with diamonds. We've had 13:44.040 --> 13:48.440 a couple of exchanges launched. So they're starting off small. We had a couple commodities 13:48.440 --> 13:53.800 exchanges. So it was digital commodities exchange and Virto are two of the exchanges that started 13:53.800 --> 13:59.660 to do this with commodities. But now we're kind of moving up the ladder. The next one that we had, 13:59.700 --> 14:03.860 and this is one of the governing council members that just came online. It's the Nairobi 14:03.860 --> 14:11.160 securities exchange. So this is a national level stock exchange out of Kenya. And the 14:11.160 --> 14:18.120 representative that's been coming to the Hedera meetings has actually been the CEO himself. A 14:18.120 --> 14:22.240 lower level executive. It's somebody from upper management, something like that. But we actually 14:22.240 --> 14:28.340 have the CEO and he's committed to wanting to build his exchange on top of Hedera. And of course, 14:28.400 --> 14:32.440 that's where it's going to start. We're going to have Nairobi stock exchange, maybe some other 14:32.440 --> 14:36.360 smaller exchanges to start off. And then it's just going to move up the line. You're going to 14:36.360 --> 14:40.460 have Texas stock exchange, which is going to be launching soon. They're going to start 14:40.460 --> 14:45.140 to focus on how is this being done? Where does the efficiencies come from? How fast is 14:45.140 --> 14:48.740 the finality? All that kind of stuff. And then it's going to be New York stock exchange, 14:48.940 --> 14:54.860 Comax, FTSE. It's just going to go down the line. It's exciting to see. We know that this 14:54.860 --> 14:59.620 stuff is going to happen. And when we first had some of those traditional exchanges with 14:59.620 --> 15:03.920 Virto and digital commodities exchange come online, we're like, we see where this is going. 15:04.080 --> 15:08.700 And it's following exactly how I expected. And now we have one of the governing council 15:08.700 --> 15:13.460 members that's running an exchange that wants to put Hedera at the core of their tech stack. 15:14.260 --> 15:22.100 Awesome. So you talked about a thousand times more efficiency. So it's a thousand times more 15:22.100 --> 15:28.720 efficient in what aspect? Because it's even far greater than that when it comes to energy consumption. 15:28.980 --> 15:35.080 Like compared to Bitcoin, the energy consumption is so infinitesimally small 15:35.900 --> 15:44.000 when it comes to transaction fees. It's one one hundredth of a penny to transfer any amount, 15:44.260 --> 15:54.120 a trillion bucks. The fee is one one hundredth of a penny. So what aspect do you have any other 15:54.820 --> 16:05.240 measurements of efficiency when you're talking about fees, the speed, the energy efficiency, 16:06.300 --> 16:12.240 and so on? Now, I don't have them all memorized off the top of my head, but I was actually when 16:12.240 --> 16:16.200 it's a thousand times more efficient than the centralized system of Visa, right? 16:16.460 --> 16:21.720 Visa. Okay. So you're talking about like Bitcoin power consumption compared to Hashgraph. 16:21.720 --> 16:27.720 It is probably more like hundreds of thousands or millions of times. And we'll get you the slide 16:27.720 --> 16:32.640 that shows how much more efficient, even some of the other very efficient DLTs out there, 16:32.820 --> 16:37.340 they're, you know, a hundred X less efficient than Hedera. And this was actually, 16:37.440 --> 16:42.200 there's a couple of different entities that bore this out. The one that I'm quoting right now is 16:42.200 --> 16:46.140 from the University College London, one of the Hedera governing council members. You might 16:46.140 --> 16:49.680 think that they became a council member and then did the study. It was actually the other 16:49.680 --> 16:53.940 way around. They did the study. And then they said, you know what, this is something we want to be 16:53.940 --> 16:58.400 involved with. So they became a Hedera governing council member, but you're absolutely right around 16:58.400 --> 17:03.900 the fees. And what that energy efficiency does is it allows you to have the most headroom 17:03.900 --> 17:09.560 into how low your fees can get. So it doesn't matter if right now there might be some other 17:10.480 --> 17:14.300 DLTs out there that are covering all the costs. So for them, it's free. You don't get a free 17:14.300 --> 17:17.980 lunch. Eventually they're going to have to pay for that. But Hedera, because it is the most 17:17.980 --> 17:24.380 efficient, has the most room to lower their fees. And there's different fees for different services 17:24.380 --> 17:30.620 on Hedera. So if you're spinning up a new account on Hedera, I think it's about two cents for using 17:30.620 --> 17:35.100 Hedera Consensus Service or the cryptocurrency service, like you mentioned, it's one one hundredth 17:35.100 --> 17:40.180 of a cent for transferring tokens. So it might be a security, like I said, or it might be a 17:40.180 --> 17:45.140 currency or it might be a loyalty point. It's one tenth of a cent. If you're using the 17:45.140 --> 17:50.600 smart contract service, now, like I said, that's less efficient. So that's five cents, still cheap, 17:50.700 --> 17:54.840 but not nearly as cheap as the one tenth of a cent for sending a token back and forth. 17:55.420 --> 18:03.120 So the efficiency, even though we talk about the environmental efficiency, the electrical 18:03.120 --> 18:09.100 efficiency, being good for environmental use cases, it really comes down to dollars and cents. 18:10.880 --> 18:20.200 Yeah, I absolutely agree. So once stocks start trading on this, and you've got exchanges going 18:20.200 --> 18:27.140 and everything, this, you know, I said in episode eight of Hidden Secrets of Money that this, 18:27.320 --> 18:33.480 to me, it brought the great hope back. When I went to, in 2014, I went to Bitcoin on the 18:33.480 --> 18:40.880 Beltway. And I, you know, it shows me buying my first Bitcoin. It was just a hundred bucks, 18:41.060 --> 18:45.560 it was a fraction of a Bitcoin. And then I went back and kept on feeding that machine. 18:46.620 --> 18:53.820 I remember that well. Yeah, yeah. And but at that conference, Ethereum had just been introduced. 18:53.980 --> 18:59.560 And there was a great unity among everybody. Everybody felt that they were changing the 18:59.560 --> 19:06.060 world, that they were making a difference, that they were opening up free. The big hope was that 19:06.060 --> 19:11.320 this, everything would be a peer-to-peer payment system like Satoshi Nakamoto had envisioned, 19:11.960 --> 19:18.680 that Bitcoin was going to be used as money and that Ethereum was going to be used for the 19:18.680 --> 19:27.080 smart contracts and such. And then the Bitcoin block size got capped and at about the same 19:27.080 --> 19:35.940 time all of these other cryptos sprang up. Oh, by the way, you were talking about meme cryptos. 19:37.700 --> 19:44.960 When HatchGraph was peaking just recently, H-Bar was peaking at 39 cents. I went and looked at 19:44.960 --> 19:53.080 the top performer in the last hour, the last day, the last week. And it was H-Bar every time, 19:53.080 --> 19:57.480 except when you went to monthly, it was outperformed by Peanut the Squirrel, 20:00.360 --> 20:04.940 which doesn't do anything, right? Sure, sure. But I think a lot of that capital, like I was 20:04.940 --> 20:10.080 saying before, that was in those meme coins because they were crazy to say, but they were 20:10.080 --> 20:14.980 safer from a regulatory standpoint than these tokens that actually do things. And I think 20:14.980 --> 20:19.220 a lot of that capital is going to move into things like H-Bar. Yeah. Well, you know, 20:19.220 --> 20:28.700 when Lehman and Mintz developed H-Bar, they were very careful to try to make everything as 20:28.700 --> 20:35.780 compliant as possible, knowing in the future that this would be necessary if you wanted to 20:36.430 --> 20:46.620 be able to put stocks in the graph of hashes. So it was done with an eye that this would 20:46.620 --> 20:52.560 all be regulated one day. And so they were prepared. I find this all very exciting. Yeah. 20:52.700 --> 21:00.260 Let's remind the viewers, we're up at about 29 cents right now. And it was 10 cents the last time 21:00.260 --> 21:06.180 that you and I had a conversation. I think the time before that, it was about a nickel. 21:07.300 --> 21:13.200 And it had been down, like I said, and you said, at one penny for quite a while. 21:13.200 --> 21:20.760 And so the opportunity that was there. And I think there's still a tremendous amount of opportunity 21:21.190 --> 21:29.100 as all of these things get adopted, as you see H-Bar starting to move in to be. 21:29.820 --> 21:36.920 So H-Bar is the base level platform that all of these other things ride on top of, right? 21:36.920 --> 21:43.800 So that's like the railroad tracks. And what do you call the thing that is the train that's 21:43.800 --> 21:49.980 going to carry on? Yeah. Generally, I mean, we call all these different things use cases that 21:49.980 --> 21:55.720 are built on top of Hedera. Now H-Bar itself is the, like I said, the oil, it's the payment 21:55.720 --> 22:00.600 for all the different services. So all the services cost, I quoted some of the prices 22:00.600 --> 22:04.780 for them. They're paid in H-Bar, but priced in dollars. So they're marking that to market 22:04.780 --> 22:09.580 on a regular basis. So you pay all those fees in H-Bar. And that's where the demand for the H-Bar 22:09.580 --> 22:14.480 comes from. And some of those go to some of the H-Bar that's brought in can be used for 22:14.480 --> 22:18.660 incentivizing additional nodes that could be run. It can be used for incentivizing the token 22:18.660 --> 22:23.140 holders to secure the network. And then it can be used to continue to build out the ecosystem 22:23.140 --> 22:29.820 and build the network. So the H-Bar tokens are required by the people that build these, 22:29.820 --> 22:38.440 do you call them dApps? Yes, they can build a layer on top of it, but it requires those tokens 22:38.440 --> 22:43.060 for this layer to run. There's all kinds of applications that are being launched here. 22:43.160 --> 22:46.540 We'll talk about one here. We already talked about real-world asset tokenization. 22:47.240 --> 22:51.040 The next one we'll get into is decentralized physical infrastructure. So we've touched on 22:51.040 --> 22:55.620 some of these things. One of the things that I've noticed is a lot of things that 22:55.620 --> 23:00.060 get talked about in the crypto space, it's things that will eventually happen. We are 23:00.060 --> 23:04.240 going to do this. Well, the things that are being built on Hedera are actually happening. 23:05.120 --> 23:09.140 So in this decentralized physical infrastructure space, one of the teams 23:09.140 --> 23:14.940 is YSAT and CLSQ. They're both founded by the same person. They're sending these 23:14.940 --> 23:21.060 satellites up into space to facilitate transactional internet of things. And CLSQ 23:21.060 --> 23:26.620 is going to have this seal coin. Or actually, I think I'm not sure where the token itself is 23:26.620 --> 23:31.940 going to reside, but that's going to be the medium of exchange for these different objects that are 23:31.940 --> 23:37.240 out there, whether it's smart cities or autonomous vehicles, smart homes, whatever it may be, 23:37.340 --> 23:42.880 to be able to transact between those different objects. Of course, we want to onboard the 23:42.880 --> 23:48.560 next billion users, but we also need to onboard the next trillion objects. That's one 23:48.560 --> 23:53.080 of the things that Carlos, the founder of these two entities says all the time, 23:53.120 --> 24:00.980 we're going to onboard those. And he's creating with CLSQ the chips that are going into all these 24:00.980 --> 24:06.840 different objects. Since the last time we talked, they've made some traction with potential 24:06.840 --> 24:10.920 customers. They have the Swiss army that's interested in what they're doing. They're also 24:10.920 --> 24:14.000 building the hardware. So they're building these chips and they're going to go into these 24:14.000 --> 24:17.340 different objects. And they're also going to be building a phone. It's going to be a 24:17.340 --> 24:22.540 Web3 crypto enabled phone. We're trying to get a lot of the dApps. Like you said, 24:22.680 --> 24:28.580 that Hedera has, whether it's Hashpack or Twigital or Earthlings, that's a game karate combat. 24:29.240 --> 24:32.840 We're going to try to get all these dApps on the phone so people could use them 24:32.840 --> 24:37.780 as soon as it comes out of the box. But then it's also designed to be post-quantum resistant. 24:38.440 --> 24:44.380 That's what the chips are. To be able to make this Web3 world so much easier for people to 24:44.380 --> 24:47.800 use. But it's not going to stop there. That's going to be the start. They're putting these 24:47.800 --> 24:52.120 satellites into space, ready for these transactional internet of things. So all the infrastructure 24:52.120 --> 24:57.120 is getting to the point where it's in place and ready to go. So the next layer is getting that 24:57.120 --> 25:02.100 token to be able to transfer between one another. And that's supposed to be coming next year. 25:02.200 --> 25:07.620 And that token is going to be built on Hedera. Another deep-in decentralized physical 25:07.620 --> 25:13.280 infrastructure use case is Neuron. And Neuron is, there's another network that's similar 25:13.280 --> 25:18.440 out there called Helium. But Neuron did it a little bit differently. They said, well, 25:18.440 --> 25:25.820 what's the one use case we know that what we want to do is perfect for? And it was actually 25:25.820 --> 25:30.960 drones and aviation, making sure to track these objects as they're going through 25:31.720 --> 25:35.800 and doing what they need to do. They knew that there was going to be the need for 25:35.800 --> 25:41.520 delivery using drones. There's no point in having a 4,000-pound vehicle delivering an object 25:41.520 --> 25:47.880 that's only a few ounces. So you can do all of that with drones. So they said, well, what is the 25:47.880 --> 25:53.460 best sensors we would need to put out to be able to do that? They determined what those sensors were 25:53.460 --> 25:58.100 and then they went about and made sure that they had customers. They're in deep talks with, 25:58.620 --> 26:03.980 well, three of the four. James, the founder of this team, hasn't told me which three. 26:03.980 --> 26:10.920 But the big four drone delivery services are Google Wing, Amazon Prime, ZipLine and 26:10.920 --> 26:14.960 Mana. And they're in deep talks with three of those four. So they have the customers. 26:15.300 --> 26:19.360 Then they needed to go out and put the sensors out. So they started a beta program. 26:19.720 --> 26:23.900 They had these sensors already throughout the world. Now they're going to be moving on to the 26:23.900 --> 26:28.680 next step. They need to incentivize all the people that are running these different sensors. 26:29.800 --> 26:33.480 And they're starting off with that beta program, but they're going to need a token 26:33.480 --> 26:39.640 because these transactions have to be done on a very regular basis. So they're going to be launching 26:39.640 --> 26:44.440 a token again on Hedera going into next year. And then it's going to be all about scaling. 26:44.860 --> 26:48.940 Once they've gotten that layer on board, they're going to scale. They'll start off with that aviation 26:48.940 --> 26:55.700 use case, tracking drones and incentivizing all of the sensor operators. But those sensors are 26:55.700 --> 26:59.280 very useful for a lot of other things as well. So they're going to move directly from that 26:59.280 --> 27:04.900 into autonomous vehicles into smart cities. These things take years. Even though you can 27:04.900 --> 27:08.760 dream things up, that doesn't mean it's going to come to fruition. And the difference I see with 27:08.760 --> 27:13.480 what's happening on Hedera and a lot of other networks is the teams that are attracted to 27:13.480 --> 27:16.720 and building on Hedera are actually making these things come to fruition. 27:17.100 --> 27:19.360 Are there any other topics that you wanted to touch on? 27:21.320 --> 27:26.320 Well, certainly the gaming space is an interesting one to talk about. And this 27:26.320 --> 27:31.760 is being done in a lot of different ways. We've talked about karate combat in the past. So they 27:31.760 --> 27:36.680 spun up a token called karate and they do something called up only gaming. So you can acquire these 27:36.680 --> 27:40.840 tokens several different ways. They have air drops of them. You can go and buy them on the open 27:40.840 --> 27:45.300 market. And then they have these big events on a regular basis. The next one's going to be 27:45.300 --> 27:50.260 coming out on December 19th down in Miami. And whichever fighters you think are going to 27:50.260 --> 27:54.460 win, you can put your tokens on those. If you get it right, you get more tokens. 27:54.460 --> 27:58.260 If you don't, you don't lose anything. And they have that all built into the tokenomics. 27:58.340 --> 28:01.820 They can work on having revenue in their token, which is called karate. 28:02.080 --> 28:07.680 And this is another example of we're seeing the usage go up when they first launched the 28:07.680 --> 28:13.920 first up only gaming event. They had about 1500 users. Few events later, they were up to 28:13.920 --> 28:19.760 11,000. Few events later, it was 38,000. Now they're at 120,000. And all of these 28:19.760 --> 28:24.620 use cases on Hedera are going through that same kind of curve. It might start slow, 28:24.620 --> 28:29.360 but it goes much faster over time as not only are we getting new use cases online, 28:29.420 --> 28:34.080 but each individual use case is starting to ramp up. And that's all revenue for the Hedera 28:34.080 --> 28:39.420 network. While we're on gaming, one of my favorite is Earthlings. A lot of these teams 28:39.420 --> 28:44.440 that get attracted to the Hedera ecosystem, they are grinders. And they've already launched 28:44.440 --> 28:49.900 a mini game. It's called steam runner. It's just a simple sidekick game. They're trying to put these 28:49.900 --> 28:54.000 things out because they're completely bootstrapped on a regular basis. They want to have three of these 28:54.500 --> 29:01.660 sidekick games every year. And the main way they use web three, they use Hedera is they 29:01.660 --> 29:06.360 spin up tokens for in-game assets. That could be the in-game currency. It's called steam. 29:06.580 --> 29:10.800 You can use that to trade back and forth in the game because a lot of times in games, 29:10.800 --> 29:16.000 you need those in-game currencies, but also other kinds of assets. So they have avatars, 29:16.280 --> 29:19.800 so the different types of people, and they have different attributes. So one might run faster, 29:19.880 --> 29:25.260 one might be able to jump further or slide further, all kinds of different things. 29:26.820 --> 29:31.540 And once you've gotten one of these avatars, you can use it in all the different games. 29:31.800 --> 29:36.220 So everything that they come up with, even other games that are done by different teams, 29:36.220 --> 29:41.760 they might be able to work with other teams and allow those assets, which become bearer assets. 29:41.980 --> 29:46.400 As long as you have it in your wallet, you can use it wherever. And that's where I really started 29:46.400 --> 29:52.860 to feel the power of these NFTs because they are non-fungible tokens. Because as soon as I 29:52.860 --> 29:56.100 started playing their first game, I was like, you know what? I wanted this different avatar. 29:56.360 --> 30:00.560 And without thinking twice, I dropped a couple thousand H bar, which now is worth a lot more 30:00.560 --> 30:04.120 than when I actually bought it. But I went and I got all the different avatars because I wanted 30:04.120 --> 30:08.300 to try them all out. But I know that not only can I use it for that one small game that I was 30:08.300 --> 30:11.800 playing at the time, but all of these games that are going to be coming out, I'm going to be able 30:11.800 --> 30:15.800 to use it every single time. I don't want to say it's an investment, but you know there's going 30:15.800 --> 30:20.060 to be more things you can do with it over time. And those are their sidekick games, 30:20.160 --> 30:25.360 but they're also going to create this grand scale gaming metaverse to participate in as 30:25.360 --> 30:30.340 well. It's family friendly. I've been having a blast with it so far. And the team seems 30:30.340 --> 30:36.960 really excited about it. Wow. What is your website? How do they find you? What's your YouTube channel? 30:37.440 --> 30:43.040 The best way to find me is just to go to my YouTube channel, the H bar bull. And if you 30:43.040 --> 30:47.080 are curious about any things we talked about today or other things that are going on in the 30:47.080 --> 30:51.940 crypto space that you want to see if anything's happening on Hedera, just search on my site. 30:52.080 --> 30:55.220 Like we talked about Neuron. You can go ahead and search Neuron. I think I have four 30:55.220 --> 31:00.720 different videos from that team. So you can learn about CLSQ or Earthlings or any of the other teams 31:00.720 --> 31:05.260 we have going on. Certainly I want to give a shout out to my company, Twigital. We do an 31:05.260 --> 31:08.500 interesting thing as well. And you can do the same thing. You can go ahead and check out what's 31:08.500 --> 31:13.660 going on on my channel on YouTube to figure out exactly what's going on for that and everything 31:13.660 --> 31:20.100 else that's happening on Hedera. Describe Twigital and the process here. Real quick 31:20.100 --> 31:25.260 before we get out of here. So what Twigital does is it uses photogrammetry. We actually have a few 31:25.260 --> 31:31.260 different ways that you can capture objects. Pretty much any physical object, you take either a video 31:31.260 --> 31:36.460 of it or you can take a series of pictures of it and it renders that into a 3D version of that 31:36.460 --> 31:42.720 that can live in digital immersive environments. And then it tokenizes that on Hedera. And 31:42.720 --> 31:47.280 you can use it for all kinds of things. It could be used for insurance. You can use that 31:47.280 --> 31:51.820 token as the value transfer mechanism if you want to trade those things back and forth. But now 31:51.820 --> 31:56.960 you don't just have to have your display shelf in your basement. But it could be the entire world 31:56.960 --> 32:02.260 because all of these digital immersive environments like Apple Vision Pro or everything that META has 32:02.260 --> 32:08.340 been working on, it's going to be native for all those places. So this is going to be the 32:08.340 --> 32:12.440 web 3 version of that. And it's going to track the provenance of all those physical objects 32:12.440 --> 32:17.760 that you treasure. Okay. Well, this is all awesome news, Brandon. I want to thank you very much for 32:17.760 --> 32:22.980 this interview. And I want to remind everybody to like and subscribe, but not only here, 32:23.200 --> 32:29.560 over on Brandon's channel too. So go there, go to his website, investigate this. It's worth 32:29.560 --> 32:34.160 learning about. I want to thank everybody for watching and we'll see you next time. Thanks, 32:34.260 --> 32:36.460 Brandon. And thank you, Mike. It was my pleasure.