WEBVTT 00:02.420 --> 00:09.540 It was born in Nashville, Tennessee. My uncle and dad were both boxers, and so boxing was 00:09.540 --> 00:14.120 a big part of my life growing up, watching the fights every single week. But I started 00:14.120 --> 00:18.680 wrestling and I started competing heavily in Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Got a scholarship 00:18.680 --> 00:24.600 to wrestle in college and at 18 I was able to go to these different mixed martial arts events. 00:26.060 --> 00:31.880 Head play, very impressive. I was doing professional fights traveling across the country, 00:32.180 --> 00:36.240 but I was thinking about going down more of a training route. And so I opened my martial arts 00:36.240 --> 00:42.200 gym and in five years I had one of the largest MMA schools in the country. It's my clothing line. 00:42.320 --> 00:47.200 We were the largest manufacturer of Brazilian jiu-jitsu martial arts uniforms. I had one of 00:47.200 --> 00:51.380 the highest rated non-syndicate sports show in the country and everything was going extremely well. 00:51.380 --> 00:55.020 It was dust in the west. Got a busy day. Just trained hard. 00:55.780 --> 01:01.300 One day I was training a guy and I threw a kick. Kind of in a warm-up session but 01:01.300 --> 01:08.340 he checked it really hard and I tore my LCL, PCL, and meniscus. And so I was taking the pain 01:08.340 --> 01:13.260 medication for a couple years and when I went to stop I went through a draw. And the therapist 01:13.260 --> 01:18.500 said America's behind the times when it comes to opiate withdrawal. Google iBugging. 01:18.500 --> 01:26.160 It supposedly stopped 100% of opiate withdrawals but it was illegal in the United States but it was 01:26.160 --> 01:34.460 available in Mexico. And so I went to Mexico City. I did iBugging there. I was home 72 hours later, 01:34.800 --> 01:39.260 never had a craving, never had a withdrawal. And I thought to myself well what else is out 01:39.260 --> 01:44.540 there? My mom has a rare form of rheumatoid arthritis and she broke her back and she 01:44.540 --> 01:49.420 got tuberculosis. Multiple staff infections all due to the side effects of the medication. 01:49.720 --> 01:56.020 And I had read about a study called Coley's Toxins for rheumatoid arthritis and it was from 1923 01:56.020 --> 02:02.160 from a doctor named William Coley. Coley's causes a fever. Basically after the fever was done 02:02.160 --> 02:06.740 people would have a relief in their symptoms. You know what we do currently for autoimmune 02:06.740 --> 02:14.520 diseases is we suppress the immune system and this stimulates the immune system. And 02:14.520 --> 02:21.720 had Coley's Toxins. And there was a hospital in Mexico that had it but it had closed two years before. 02:22.080 --> 02:28.300 I knew my mom was sick and I wanted to find answers for her and I wanted iBugging that to become 02:28.300 --> 02:35.260 mainstream one day. And it sounds crazy but my two partners and I we purchased the hospital, 02:35.480 --> 02:41.000 hired back the original staff with a mission to try to help people. But our first patient 02:41.000 --> 02:47.120 was my mom. She came in she was in a wheelchair after three weeks she was in remission. All of her 02:47.120 --> 02:55.320 joint pain was gone. It was like a miracle. In 2021 we launched our stem cell program. 02:55.720 --> 03:01.260 My friend Eddie Bravo came down and he had a labrum tear in his shoulder. We injected 03:01.260 --> 03:07.820 the tear and four or five months later he called and said Ed this thing is like it's 03:07.820 --> 03:12.480 unbelievable how good I'm feeling. Joe Rogan did an interview with Eddie Bravo on the podcast. 03:13.020 --> 03:18.000 He mentions us a lot. You know I got the stem cells in my shoulder. We should let everybody know 03:18.000 --> 03:22.920 this is the place that's in Tijuana. It's run by Scotty Nelson, Ed Clay. My friend got serious 03:22.920 --> 03:27.420 stem cells down in Tijuana where they could do wild. Did you go to the place in Tijuana? 03:27.900 --> 03:33.720 Yeah. Ed Clay's place? Yeah. Shout out to Ed Clay. And the hospital started blowing up. 03:34.940 --> 03:41.880 As it was a huge change for the hospital but it was definitely pushback from conventional circle. 03:42.140 --> 03:45.960 It was oh that stuff doesn't work they're just taking advantage of people. That's quackery down 03:45.960 --> 03:52.800 in Mexico. But the American health system is absolutely broken. It lacks compassion 03:52.800 --> 03:58.880 and common sense. It treats patients like a number. Seeing my mom get better and other 03:58.880 --> 04:05.720 patients get better. I knew we were on the right path. People know us for stem cells but stem cells 04:05.720 --> 04:12.180 is like it's very simple science to us. Our capabilities is really the future of medicine. 04:12.760 --> 04:20.080 If you just cut all that red tape these geniuses do what they do. We could cure two-thirds of 04:20.080 --> 04:29.350 solid tumor cancers in the next seven years. I truly believe that. Well it's my absolute 04:29.350 --> 04:35.230 pleasure right now to be joined by Ed Clay. Ed thanks for coming in. We've been wanting to do this 04:35.230 --> 04:39.890 for some time. I appreciate you having me. I ran into you a bunch as I was you know we were running 04:39.890 --> 04:44.630 around during the election and around Robert Kennedy Jr. and you were very supportive of 04:44.630 --> 04:51.230 Maha and helping make a lot of things happen there. But just getting back I mean you know 04:51.230 --> 04:55.850 I just think about my story like I never would have planned on being here and what a crazy 04:57.010 --> 05:04.430 journey. People must ask you all the time how did you get into this? Did those moves feel 05:05.210 --> 05:11.890 where they work? Were they orchestrated? Did you feel guided? How did you come into this? To go 05:11.890 --> 05:18.550 from MMA? You're running your own training facility and then decide to get into building 05:18.550 --> 05:22.770 a hospital? I mean that's a pretty big jump. There's a big jump. My mom was sick and I 05:22.770 --> 05:29.250 have a big faith in God and just kind of leaned on him during the pressure. That's what got me 05:29.250 --> 05:37.310 through it. But we needed answers for her and there were no answers in the U.S. And so it was 05:37.310 --> 05:41.930 like what can we do? And when I read the study on Coley's toxins it made sense to me. They've 05:41.930 --> 05:46.610 been suppressing her immune system. The side effects that she was getting were unbearable 05:46.610 --> 05:51.130 and we didn't have any more options. So I found Coley's toxins. You know the hospital 05:51.130 --> 05:57.470 had closed a couple years before in Mexico and we just figured it out, bought it. 05:58.190 --> 06:03.110 Well, how did you talk the Wii into it? I think that's a big thing too. There's one thing of 06:03.110 --> 06:09.430 having a dream but then enrolling other people around you into that because it was your mom 06:09.430 --> 06:15.810 not theirs. Were those partners from just earlier? Were they the same partners you had at your 06:15.810 --> 06:20.810 gym? No, not the same partner. Scott Nelson, he's been one of my best friends for 30 years. 06:21.070 --> 06:27.450 He owned an MMA company called OTM and it's like his mom too. He's very close to my mom. 06:27.610 --> 06:33.790 And then Gedrick Peary, he did work with me at the gym. But I showed him the idea. We were all 06:33.790 --> 06:39.450 single at the time and we were like, let's just do it. She changed the world. It made 06:39.450 --> 06:43.350 sense. I remember we were trying to get people to invest with us and I couldn't understand 06:43.350 --> 06:48.070 why people didn't want to invest. Now, 11 years later, I'm like, I would never invest in something 06:48.070 --> 06:53.370 like that. You know, no way. But we lived in the hospital the first six months because we 06:53.370 --> 06:58.810 wanted to learn everything we possibly could about a hospital and just work really hard. 06:59.030 --> 07:04.070 Seven days a week, it was wake up. We lived together after we moved out of the hospital, 07:04.370 --> 07:09.390 wake up, drink coffee together, talking about work, get home late, have dinner together, 07:09.390 --> 07:13.250 talking about work and it was just constant for the first five years. 07:13.250 --> 07:17.950 What were the first steps? I mean, I find this fascinating because people always ask me, 07:18.030 --> 07:23.430 what can I do? Or they'll say, I want to change the health systems. I'm like, 07:23.490 --> 07:28.510 well, start with a clinic or something. I think we set goals sometimes that are too big 07:29.030 --> 07:39.230 and miss the steps in between. But what are those steps? You're not a doctor, so you 07:39.230 --> 07:43.770 go in. So are there already doctors there that you're just like, show us how this whole thing 07:43.770 --> 07:47.730 works? What was the process? Yeah, we hired back the original staff that was running the hospital 07:47.730 --> 07:55.610 before and then hired hospital administrators and just people that had experience with it. 07:55.630 --> 07:59.230 But all in Mexico? All in Mexico. All speaking Spanish or they speak English? 07:59.350 --> 08:03.050 They speak English as well. Okay, good. That helps. And we just 08:03.050 --> 08:10.070 just grinded it out, hired good people, hired maybe some bad people too that we had to 08:10.650 --> 08:16.810 go through. But it was just this faith that we were going to make it work. I mean, 08:16.910 --> 08:22.030 I remember seeing the first tumor I saw shrink with Coley's toxins injected intertumorally 08:22.030 --> 08:27.030 and it was undeniable. It's one thing in a scan where you just see it on a screen, 08:27.130 --> 08:31.490 but when you see this guy had a tumor coming out of his neck and within three weeks, 08:31.490 --> 08:36.170 we got it to go down probably two thirds on something that's not supposed to work. 08:38.190 --> 08:43.730 I just knew. I just knew. And that was immunotherapy. Coley's toxins, if you look in the textbooks, 08:44.070 --> 08:48.630 it's considered the first immunotherapy for cancer. And so from there... 08:48.630 --> 08:51.270 They ditched it. It just was like, what happened to it? 08:51.530 --> 08:58.950 Yeah, so Dr. Coley from 1891 to 1936 had a higher success rate treating many cancers 08:58.950 --> 09:04.630 than we did up until about 2018 when the checkpoint inhibitor immunotherapies really got popular. 09:04.750 --> 09:13.090 That's when they won the Nobel Prize for cancer. But you figure from the 50s to 2015, 09:13.290 --> 09:18.210 it was all chemotherapy and radiation. And the immunologist, Franco Marincola, 09:18.550 --> 09:23.690 is our chief scientific officer. He was the former chief of infectious disease and immunogenetics 09:23.690 --> 09:29.670 for the NIH. And he was an immunologist. And he said, what I did 20 years ago wasn't considered 09:29.670 --> 09:34.050 real science. So here's this great scientist that believed in immunotherapy for cancer. 09:34.610 --> 09:38.950 But even back then, 20 years ago, it was like, oh, this will never work. The immune system can 09:38.950 --> 09:43.430 really never have that effect. And Franco saw one patient, I believe it was in the late 80s, 09:43.450 --> 09:49.250 maybe the early 90s, that was cured of melanoma with IL-2. And IL-2 is very toxic, but 09:49.250 --> 09:53.370 he knew that if he could figure out the mechanisms that caused that person to be cured, 09:54.110 --> 09:59.530 that we could eventually one day cure cancer. So he stuck with it. Him and Steve Rosenberg, 09:59.650 --> 10:04.090 who's still at the NCI, they've been really pioneers of this immunotherapy for cancer 10:04.090 --> 10:09.070 movement and a lot of others. But they knew that it was possible. And I think we're getting 10:09.070 --> 10:14.710 science to the point now where we can really pinpoint. And I do think that we're fairly 10:14.710 --> 10:22.170 close to a cure for solid tumor cancers. So you have a former NIH scientist expert 10:22.790 --> 10:29.350 who, in order to continue his work, really has to be doing that in Mexico. So what is it? 10:30.170 --> 10:33.130 Because I remember when I first started hearing about this a few years, I'd be like, oh, I'm 10:33.130 --> 10:36.830 getting my teeth done down in Mexico, or I'm getting this. I just thought it was just a 10:36.830 --> 10:41.610 cheaper way to do things. Then I started meeting people that were having life-changing 10:43.170 --> 10:48.270 procedures done in Mexico and other like Switzerland. They leave the country, though. I 10:48.270 --> 10:58.950 can't get this here. So, you know, why? Why is it, why is this immunotherapy, why is 10:58.950 --> 11:03.630 Coley's toxins? Why is that not, why is the NIH not working with it right now? Because we're 11:03.630 --> 11:08.010 assuming we're under this impression America wants to be the leader. We want to be the 11:08.010 --> 11:14.390 best of the best at everything we do. We certainly have the most funding. We are on top of science 11:14.390 --> 11:22.870 and medicines. That's what HHS is, CDC, FDA. What is it about it that is not promoting 11:23.550 --> 11:28.570 the advancement of science? We grew up in a country like we landed on the moon. 11:29.250 --> 11:31.710 There's always the moonshot. Why are we missing the moonshot? 11:32.310 --> 11:37.050 Well, Franco can work for whoever he wants. Okay. So he, we have a lab in Boston and 11:37.050 --> 11:43.170 Nashville. We have, I think right now, 16 full-time PhDs. Harvard, Yale, MIT, 11:44.450 --> 11:51.090 education PhDs. And Franco loves the model of translational medicine. He founded the journal 11:51.090 --> 11:56.110 of translational medicine, which is from bench to bedside and back, back from bedside to bench, 11:56.250 --> 12:00.390 the bench of the scientists to the bedside of the patient. And so the model that we've 12:00.390 --> 12:05.850 created in Mexico, TAM Center, on the sixth floor we have the scientists and doctors working 12:05.850 --> 12:11.030 on the same floor together next to one of the best labs in the world. I will say, I think we 12:11.030 --> 12:16.470 have the best lab in the world for diagnosing cancer. Full clinical laboratories, genomics, 12:16.650 --> 12:21.450 proteomics, digital pathology. We have cellulia manufacturing, all on the same floor that 12:21.450 --> 12:26.250 the scientists and doctors work on. So we can make quick discoveries. We can make quick 12:26.250 --> 12:30.690 changes. We can find out what's going on in the lab, which is really the best thing for 12:30.690 --> 12:35.090 the patient. You know, I think modern healthcare treats patients like a number instead of an 12:35.090 --> 12:40.350 individual. And we really focus on the individual and, you know, we make individualized treatments. 12:40.750 --> 12:45.070 We're heavy on science. You know, people, you know, 10 years ago could have said, oh, 12:45.070 --> 12:48.810 that's alternative. That's not real science. Now they can't knock our science. We can have 12:48.810 --> 12:53.950 bioethical debates, which is reasonable. But what does that mean? What is a bioethical debate? 12:54.130 --> 12:56.810 What do you mean by that? Well, you know, how the clinical trials are run is, 12:56.850 --> 13:00.910 I don't think the way that the clinical trial model is run right now is ethical. 13:00.910 --> 13:06.570 So our model is set up to where, okay, it takes five to seven years in the United States to get to 13:06.570 --> 13:13.010 a phase one safety trial with the FDA and 30 to 50 million dollars on average. We can do that in 13:13.010 --> 13:18.430 as little as six months for less than a million dollars. So we have our biotech company where 13:18.430 --> 13:24.110 we're developing new therapeutics and we can get them into humans quickly, see how well they 13:24.110 --> 13:29.530 work. If they work well, we keep them going. If they don't, we don't keep using them. 13:29.530 --> 13:36.110 And so the model, that is a more ethical model to me. I mean, why should a patient wait 10 to 15 13:36.110 --> 13:40.010 years when they don't have 10 to 15 months? It doesn't make any sense to me why we keep these 13:40.010 --> 13:45.170 patients waiting. And now, you know, with the genomics and the multiomics, the differentomics 13:45.170 --> 13:51.470 that you can put together with patient samples, we can really dig in to targeted treatments. 13:51.890 --> 13:56.930 I mean, we do a, what's called whole exome sequencing on a tumor, RNA sequencing, 13:57.510 --> 14:01.830 HLA typing, and then we make predictions off of that with our bioinformatics team 14:01.830 --> 14:05.850 on the top 20 neoantigens, antigens that are found on the tumor, but not 14:05.850 --> 14:10.670 in healthy cells. And then we make targeted peptides to them. But we can only do that by 14:10.670 --> 14:14.490 having the scientific equipment and the great scientists that can make those predictions 14:14.490 --> 14:20.030 and understand that. And so it's really a more logical to me ethical approach. I don't think 14:20.030 --> 14:24.150 patients should have to wait. Conventional science might say that, oh, you know, 14:24.150 --> 14:29.870 we need to stick to this old archaic process of clinical trials that doesn't put the patient first, 14:29.970 --> 14:34.430 that uses patients as a number. And I don't think that is correct. 14:36.310 --> 14:39.890 Would people then, the argument would be, let me push on the other side though, 14:39.950 --> 14:43.250 is that you're using patients as an experiment, that they're, you know, 14:43.770 --> 14:48.850 your advancement, but do they know that they're in a trial space, that that is what 14:48.850 --> 14:53.210 they're doing there, that they're taking a risk, we don't have a long-term safety 14:53.210 --> 14:57.530 profile. I mean, obviously, you know, you're talking about this is something that's really 14:57.530 --> 15:02.490 common in America with right to try. You're talking about patients that are dying of a cancer 15:02.490 --> 15:08.270 or AIDS or whatever, you know, ailment, and we were denying them access to a trial drug that 15:08.270 --> 15:11.390 they wanted to try and they're like, I'm going to be dead by the time you determine that that 15:11.390 --> 15:15.730 product is safe. Yeah, I think we try to change informed consent to informed decision 15:15.730 --> 15:19.690 making. I think we go further than normal informed consent where we partner with the 15:19.690 --> 15:24.650 patient on all of their options. We give them lists of clinical trials all over the world. 15:25.010 --> 15:31.890 We give them on and off-label approved medications. So we really partner with the patient to 15:32.410 --> 15:36.870 have the best knowledge that they can to make a decision themselves. We believe 15:36.870 --> 15:42.510 patients are smart enough to make decisions if given all of the information. And so I 15:42.510 --> 15:46.090 understand that and someone could abuse it, by the way. There are people who abuse that 15:46.090 --> 15:51.910 and take advantage of people. That is not what we do. We're, I mean, very high science, very 15:51.910 --> 15:57.410 high ethics, and we take it very seriously. We just don't agree with the, you know, the 15:57.410 --> 16:01.290 current thought process. The current thought process to me, I think it's well intended. 16:01.610 --> 16:04.850 And a lot of people try to bash them. I'm not one that bashes them. I think it's 16:04.850 --> 16:10.370 well intended, but I think it's old. And we need new ideas based on where science is today. 16:10.750 --> 16:14.630 Well, and science is moving faster. I mean, always is moving faster. You know, 16:14.630 --> 16:19.170 I said at the beginning of the show when I was on the doctors, all the guys that were really pushing 16:19.170 --> 16:22.990 the envelope and working miracles. I mean, I got to see the best of the best. And it was the cool 16:22.990 --> 16:27.690 thing about that show was I could just reach out and say, hey, you've got a new surgery, 16:27.890 --> 16:31.850 whatever. Would you like to present it for free? I've got someone that has that issue. 16:32.170 --> 16:38.750 They need help. And we would just make them famous on the show. But the most miraculous 16:38.750 --> 16:46.630 things I witnessed while doing that show every single time, those practitioners or those geniuses 16:46.630 --> 16:51.170 were completely under attack here in America, mostly by their peers that just didn't want to 16:51.170 --> 16:56.890 change, didn't want to move. And I think that, you know, for my audience, I mean, I'm fighting 16:56.890 --> 17:01.750 for informed consent. I'm calling my nonprofit informed consent action network, but really 17:01.750 --> 17:10.490 in the vaccine space, because what's ironic is how much red tape there is for a product like 17:10.490 --> 17:14.870 you want to test to get through the gauntlet here in America, hundreds of millions of dollars, 17:15.070 --> 17:20.770 years and years of studies. But when it comes to a product given to a perfectly healthy child, 17:22.090 --> 17:25.330 they're not even doing what you're doing. There's just, we're going to assume safety, 17:25.830 --> 17:29.530 doesn't make an antigen, doesn't create an antibody, boom, it's on the market, 17:29.530 --> 17:32.750 five day safety trial for hepatitis B. Oh, you know what? Let's put it in day one, 17:32.790 --> 17:37.390 old babies, even though mostly only tested on adults, kids, older kids, let's go in day one, 17:37.390 --> 17:43.850 old babies. So I'm hesitant in this space, which is the issue I'm dealing with. I believe 17:43.850 --> 17:48.570 we're being poisoned by these products because they never went through a safety trial. But I 17:48.570 --> 17:54.930 will also say when I'm in debates, a cancer patient is different. It's a different risk 17:54.930 --> 18:00.510 profile. Right? I'm dying. I am willing to take the risk. We should be really careful with risks we 18:00.510 --> 18:07.850 take of perfectly healthy kids and we are giving them less safety and attention than we are for 18:07.850 --> 18:13.610 drugs for people that are in serious circumstances. So let's get to, you know, your investigations 18:14.120 --> 18:19.870 and your studies. A lot of people are going to Mexico and clinics like yours or, you know, 18:19.870 --> 18:24.510 hospitals like yours because you are doing cutting edge things, some of them old, some of them 18:24.510 --> 18:33.370 like Coley's Toxins. But there's this idea that pharma is hiding the cancer cure, 18:34.750 --> 18:40.770 right? That, you know, if they found the cure, I think I picture it like Raiders of the Lost 18:40.770 --> 18:46.390 Ark. You finally find the Ark, Merck buys it, and then they go down into a basement somewhere 18:46.390 --> 18:52.830 and they hide it away so that no one ever sees it. Is that what's happening with cancer in your 18:52.830 --> 18:58.690 opinion? I don't personally believe that. I mean, we've tried every possible alternative 18:58.690 --> 19:03.550 type treatment for patients over the last 10 years. Even the ones that doctors apparently 19:03.550 --> 19:09.070 have died for GC MAF being. Yes. Have you tried GC MAF? Yes, we have. Yes. Okay. I mean, 19:09.130 --> 19:15.690 leitro, everything. And so if there was a hidden cure for cancer, like we would have 19:15.690 --> 19:19.770 found it. You're looking for it. It's my passion. Right. You know, I would love to be able to tell 19:19.770 --> 19:25.730 the world this is it. But you know, there's no magic bullet to cancer. The reality is, 19:26.050 --> 19:29.570 in the alternative field, which I don't necessarily consider as alternative anymore, but 19:29.570 --> 19:34.330 alternative and conventional, nobody has a great answer for stage four metastatic cancer. 19:34.850 --> 19:40.350 And you had both sides throwing stones, all the while patients are dying and kind of stuck 19:40.350 --> 19:46.590 in the middle of this throwing stones fight. You know, we are seeing incredible gains with 19:46.590 --> 19:51.510 immunotherapy for cancer. The checkpoint inhibitors have changed the game. But we have, 19:51.610 --> 19:57.150 you know, a long way to go. But I do think we're close with all of the new diagnostic 19:57.150 --> 20:01.850 technologies. I mean, if you can pinpoint certain things within the cancer, if we can 20:01.850 --> 20:06.990 figure out what creates an immune response to cancer, we work on the cancer dark matter, 20:06.990 --> 20:12.910 which is the non-coding region of the cancer. We work on what's called viral mimicry right now, 20:12.930 --> 20:18.550 where we're trying to mimic a virus in the tumor to create an immune response to trick the 20:18.550 --> 20:24.890 immune system to thinking that the tumor is a virus. And, you know, I think that we're making 20:24.890 --> 20:29.750 really, really good gains. We have really smart people working with us. You know, but 20:29.750 --> 20:33.850 I talked to Franco, for instance. And Franco says, yeah, if I had seven years and unlimited 20:33.850 --> 20:38.590 funds, and I could just get all the red tape out of the way, you know, he really believes that we 20:38.590 --> 20:46.370 could cure two-thirds of solid tumor cancers in that five to seven-year period. And so my job, 20:46.430 --> 20:51.250 as I see it, is to make it as easy as possible for him. We have a very favorable regulatory 20:51.250 --> 20:57.370 environment in Mexico. We have a good relationship with the cofa priests. We have all the 20:57.370 --> 21:04.130 licensing set up to where we can do these faster trials, phase zero trials, really, and translate 21:04.130 --> 21:12.090 these discoveries very fast. And so my job really is to help Franco have what he needs with as 21:12.090 --> 21:16.230 little friction as possible so we can make that vision, you know, come true. 21:17.510 --> 21:21.010 What's some of the most exciting advancements you've had? 21:21.730 --> 21:26.850 Well, I think on the cancer side, you know, we went through thousands of tumor cell lines 21:26.850 --> 21:34.310 in silico, so in computerized model, and we picked the top 10 most immunogenic, meaning the immune 21:34.310 --> 21:40.830 system could see that tumor cell line the most. And then from that 10, we brought those 10 in 21:40.830 --> 21:46.490 the lab and tested them in the lab to find the most immunogenic tumor cell line. Then we 21:46.490 --> 21:51.010 knocked down genes in different tumor cell lines to see what gene knocked down caused the most 21:51.010 --> 21:57.370 immunogenic cell death. Same process in silico, same process in the lab. And then we're knocking down, 21:58.470 --> 22:03.130 we're using the most immunogenic gene knocked down in the most immunogenic tumor cell line, 22:03.270 --> 22:08.810 and we've developed a secretome from that, which is like a super adjuvant for cancer. 22:09.210 --> 22:14.770 And I'm very excited about that from their same process. We're also doing extracellular vesicles 22:14.770 --> 22:21.270 or exosomes out of those as well, and combining that with our dendritic cell vaccine, which is 22:21.270 --> 22:27.390 another pretty advanced vaccine. So those three things in combination, I think, are really cool. 22:27.550 --> 22:32.790 And these are vaccines that are essentially trying to inspire the immune system to attack 22:32.790 --> 22:38.890 the cancer that's in your body. Like finding some part of that cancer, I guess, basically put, 22:39.530 --> 22:44.950 like you would a virus, growing it, putting it inside it, and then saying, here's a way that the 22:44.950 --> 22:50.490 immune system recognizes, oh, that's my enemy, and then attacks the cancer, which it should have been, 22:50.610 --> 22:55.650 I mean, really cancer is supposed to be being attacked by our immune system, correct? I mean, 22:55.730 --> 23:00.850 isn't that- Yes. I mean, I don't have cancer right now, even though I have cancer cells, 23:00.910 --> 23:05.270 because I have an immune system that is perpetually fighting and attacking cancer. 23:05.270 --> 23:11.570 Yes. We have cancer going through us all the time, and cancer grows kind of secretly in the 23:11.570 --> 23:15.550 immune system. The immune system doesn't see it. If you can make the immune system see cancer, 23:15.670 --> 23:19.970 it will attack it and kill it. The hard part is getting it to see that, and that's our focus. 23:20.450 --> 23:25.670 How do we get the immune system to see the cancer, and then how do we create a death in the cell 23:25.670 --> 23:31.430 that creates the immune system to see it even more? So we do something called cryoablation, 23:31.430 --> 23:37.430 where we'll freeze a tumor, we'll inject it with different adjuvants. So let's say you have a tumor 23:37.430 --> 23:43.450 in the lung with a goal from the cryo there to get a tumor in the leg to go away, called the 23:43.450 --> 23:49.330 abscopal effect. So that's technically a vaccine inside the person's own body. We use the patient's 23:49.330 --> 23:55.970 own tumor as many times, though. So it's autologous therapy in those cases. 23:57.350 --> 24:01.450 Superdue, any new patents? Do you try to apply for patents coming out of Mexico? 24:01.770 --> 24:01.930 Oh, yeah. 24:01.930 --> 24:04.350 Those American patents? How does that process work? 24:04.410 --> 24:09.090 Yeah, they're American. We have a biotech in Boston, in Nashville, and yeah, 24:09.150 --> 24:13.810 we have a new one for the secretome and the EV product. We have something called a map cell 24:13.810 --> 24:18.830 coming out, which is a new stem cell that we're really excited about. There's something called 24:18.830 --> 24:25.910 a MEWS cell, and there's a doctor out of Japan that's done some really good work on that. 24:26.690 --> 24:33.030 And we took a lot of what she had learned and made it even better. So they had, at least for what we 24:33.030 --> 24:39.990 could understand, scalability problems and really how do you scale what they do? Well, 24:40.010 --> 24:44.910 we've figured that out and found other markers in the stem cells that they 24:45.710 --> 24:48.510 didn't know about that might even make that cell drive even better, 24:48.870 --> 24:51.190 and we're very excited about the map cell. 24:51.870 --> 24:56.730 Wow, super. So what's your recommendation of someone that's like, 24:57.230 --> 25:05.390 do I want to go to a clinic like TAM? What's a part of the decision-making? Obviously, 25:06.050 --> 25:10.170 I'm going to get conventional here. Everyone's getting the same thing in America. 25:10.870 --> 25:16.370 It's standardized, but when we're going to Mexico, why does someone make that choice? 25:17.110 --> 25:21.170 Well, I think for herniated discs, for instance, for stem cells, we are... 25:21.170 --> 25:27.130 Yes, we're the best at that. We do about 20 herniated disc procedures a week, and we're about to 25:27.130 --> 25:35.930 publish over 500 patient study showing the success of that. But I would go to Mexico all day long 25:35.930 --> 25:41.210 if I had a herniated disc. Before surgeries of knees, shoulders, etc., we're great at growing 25:41.210 --> 25:48.270 back labrums. We're great at knee injuries. And then for cancer, for diagnostics, if you 25:48.270 --> 25:53.210 want to get as much information as you possibly can about your cancer, you would want to come 25:53.210 --> 25:57.950 to us because we can get that information. And that's not part of the standard of care in the U.S., 25:57.950 --> 26:01.390 and then you can take that information and potentially use it in the U.S. with your 26:01.390 --> 26:07.230 oncologist because they might have extra targets to... with targeted approved medications to 26:07.230 --> 26:14.670 attack, or we can do some customized treatments in Mexico as well. So we work with a lot 26:14.670 --> 26:20.410 with oncologists in the U.S. We don't see them as opposition or anything like that. 26:21.030 --> 26:25.790 And we really want to build a bridge. And honestly, build bridges not walls. Like, how do we work with 26:25.790 --> 26:32.630 other groups? And because ultimately, the patient does better when people are working together. 26:33.430 --> 26:38.410 And they're not being told, oh, you can't trust them, or this or that, or, you know, 26:38.450 --> 26:42.990 so conventional is all bad. I don't think most oncologists are bad. I mean, oncologists, 26:42.990 --> 26:48.670 they have one of the toughest jobs. I mean, can you imagine they have metastatic cancer patients 26:48.670 --> 26:53.810 coming in that have a small chance possibly of surviving, and they're seeing that day in and 26:53.810 --> 26:57.970 day out. So a lot of them seem cold, but no telling what they're going through emotionally 26:57.970 --> 27:01.310 inside. And I think, you know, we should probably give them a little grace, but 27:02.470 --> 27:07.390 you know, we want to work with the other side. We want to, you know, basically give 27:07.390 --> 27:11.810 the patient the best chance for recovery of anything that we're working with. 27:11.810 --> 27:16.370 Where's the whole stem cell world at? I actually, you know, I was telling you before the show, 27:16.490 --> 27:21.550 I had an opportunity because I broke some rib skiing. I think it's like six weeks ago now. 27:21.750 --> 27:27.190 I got sent red lights. I'm doing really well. I think I healed pretty quickly, 27:27.450 --> 27:32.310 but I was just about to, like, do I get a stem cell injection? I know they're saving, 27:32.510 --> 27:37.990 I mean, I've heard the miracle statements, but I'm just asking myself, like, how many stem 27:37.990 --> 27:42.390 cells, is there too many stem cells in a body? That's my number one question. And anyone asking, 27:42.950 --> 27:46.170 everyone's like, oh, I have a product that increases your stem cells. This increases your 27:46.170 --> 27:51.110 stem cells. Like, it's all about stem cells, but I'm a skeptic. I think people that watch this 27:51.110 --> 27:56.550 show know on all sides, like I'm always going to ask the question, what do we know about 27:56.550 --> 28:04.610 stem cells now? Are there too many stem cells? Is there injecting the wrong places? Does 28:04.610 --> 28:10.790 I'm a skeptic too, by the way, on a lot of what's being advertised as stem cells? I've seen the 28:10.790 --> 28:15.730 supplements. I don't know anything about that, so I don't know how that works, if it's true or not. 28:16.250 --> 28:21.390 Sounds almost too good to be true, but maybe. I think I've got some peer-reviewed literature we 28:21.390 --> 28:28.350 could read. But there are meta-analysis showing what the minimum effective dose of specific 28:28.350 --> 28:32.490 stem cell treatments are. And so I could show you the meta-analysis, and maybe for your 28:32.490 --> 28:37.130 shoulder, your rib, we could go based off of the literature. There's different types of stem 28:37.130 --> 28:44.350 cells. There's bone marrow-derived, adipose-derived, umbilical cord-derived, mesenchymal stem cells, 28:44.590 --> 28:53.070 and you can choose which one you want. We have adipose and umbilical cord-derived. 28:53.390 --> 29:00.470 We grow ours in hypoxia, so there's most people grow theirs in what's called a 29:00.470 --> 29:08.510 normoxic environment. It's at like 20% oxygen, and it's a very simple cell-growing process. 29:09.110 --> 29:15.970 We grow ours at 5% oxygen, because that's the oxygen level inside most of the places in your body. 29:16.850 --> 29:21.810 Going into a disc, for instance, you want to have a cell that's grown in low oxygen that's 29:21.810 --> 29:29.570 similar to where it's being injected into. Interesting. Yeah, but we did a study recently 29:30.130 --> 29:35.810 where we ordered five or six of the top Wharton jelly products in the U.S., because people are 29:35.810 --> 29:41.170 claiming Wharton jelly, minimally manipulated Wharton jelly, is a stem cell, and they're 29:41.170 --> 29:46.810 marketing it as stem cells. And there were virtually no stem cells in those products. 29:46.890 --> 29:51.530 We published this in the Journal of Translational Medicine, and between 81% and 100% of those 29:51.530 --> 29:57.370 cells were dead. So, you know, now does that say that Wharton jelly, you can't get 29:57.370 --> 30:02.230 stem cells and plate them and grow them? No. That would be something similar to what we do, 30:02.310 --> 30:08.450 but the Wharton jelly being marketed in America, most of it is not actually a stem cell product. 30:08.850 --> 30:14.990 So, you know, I could point you to literature and let you make an informed decision on kind 30:14.990 --> 30:21.470 of what's best for you based on the science. I think you've briefly probably met Bobby Kennedy, 30:21.470 --> 30:27.070 but, you know, when you think about, you know, we have, I think we have a very, 30:27.270 --> 30:33.750 you know, porous group now open to, I mean, I got to sit in some of the conversations. 30:34.030 --> 30:39.630 I know Marty McCary wants to look at new technology. He wants to fast-track things 30:39.630 --> 30:44.250 that are working. Dr. Oz obviously spent his life doing shows like this. He had his own show 30:45.110 --> 30:49.650 celebrating things that were working. I know Bobby, you know, but what would be, 30:49.650 --> 30:55.590 you know, what would you say to them? What do you think needs to happen inside the U.S. government 30:56.650 --> 31:01.990 agencies to put America back on top of medical and science research? What has to happen? 31:02.410 --> 31:06.810 Well, I think for stem cells, for instance, let these companies jump to phase three and 31:06.810 --> 31:12.590 let's do a big study, you know, and maybe have the NIH help fund, you know, those studies 31:13.350 --> 31:18.210 because the idea that a stem cell that is a legitimate biotech company that's been 31:18.210 --> 31:22.990 doing it has to go through phase one and phase two and wait five to seven to ten years to get 31:22.990 --> 31:26.930 the trial done is pretty ridiculous when we know the safety and we know that it has signals of 31:26.930 --> 31:32.910 efficacy. Yeah. You know, for healthcare overall, especially with diseases like cancer or, 31:33.030 --> 31:37.710 you know, something that is considered terminal, I think we need early access. And I think 31:37.710 --> 31:43.750 they're doing a pretty good job with that right now. But they really need to figure out 31:43.750 --> 31:49.310 how to lower the cost across the board. So, for instance, if we were to go into a phase three, 31:49.430 --> 31:54.710 we'd probably have to sell to Big Pharma because we can't fund 100 million, 500 million, however 31:54.710 --> 32:02.570 much it is type study. And so there's got to be ways kind of around that. We've solved the phase 32:02.570 --> 32:09.870 one problem with our model in Mexico. It was based to bypass the broken system in the U.S. 32:09.870 --> 32:16.090 where we can do trials in Mexico, give the U.S. FDAR data, hope that they take it and let us jump 32:16.090 --> 32:21.030 to phase two or phase three. So we don't waste that first five to seven years. So that's one way 32:21.030 --> 32:26.750 to do it. But they really need to figure out a way to lower the cost of that phase three trial 32:27.890 --> 32:32.010 because, you know, we've never taken an outside investor. There's still just three of us. 32:32.650 --> 32:35.030 And we've done it intentionally because we don't want to be beholden to 32:35.030 --> 32:42.110 Big Pharma or some corporate interest. Now, it's really hard. You can imagine it's really hard to 32:42.110 --> 32:47.630 do, but that's what we've tried to do. We will hold off as long as we can, but maybe one day we have 32:47.630 --> 32:53.530 to have to do it. But I wish that weren't the case. And I wish it could be more reasonable 32:54.210 --> 32:58.170 to get a drug through the phase three process, especially when we see, 32:59.150 --> 33:02.690 you know, like, for instance, with our disc injections, how well it's working. 33:03.910 --> 33:08.810 One of the interesting conversations I had was with Jim O'Neill, who I don't know what happened to 33:08.810 --> 33:13.470 him inside of the government. He was there for a little while, but he was really caught up in 33:13.470 --> 33:17.430 the fact that FDA changed its mandate. It was supposed to just be focused on safety 33:18.510 --> 33:23.610 and then let efficacy be decided by doctors, patients and all that. Very interesting 33:24.170 --> 33:28.170 if we return to that. The idea though being, and I see more and more of this, 33:28.170 --> 33:33.750 whether or not returning to just safety is the way to go. But what he pointed out to me was that 33:33.750 --> 33:39.730 efficacy was changed by pharma. They wanted, as soon as they made FDA responsible for efficacy, 33:40.510 --> 33:44.910 that's the $100 million trials. That's where you just make everything way too expensive to 33:44.910 --> 33:49.490 have any competitors. They'll complain about the red tape, but as you just said, only big 33:49.490 --> 33:55.090 pharma can afford it. And so it keeps all competition out. And it also sort of 33:55.090 --> 34:00.590 instantly turns FDA into a promoting body because now it's giving you this seal of approval 34:00.590 --> 34:04.950 and you're off and running. There's an argument to say, what if we took that away from them? 34:05.130 --> 34:10.510 Let's get back to efficacy being decided by results. Hospitals can show the results, 34:10.690 --> 34:15.150 patients can go where they're seeing results. All you have to do is prove that this product's 34:15.150 --> 34:23.410 safe and relatively safe. But that idea, making it cheaper, I think pharma is behind 34:23.410 --> 34:28.610 making those things really expensive. They want you to have to go through these double blind 34:29.690 --> 34:34.350 studies that they'll skip them whenever they can, but they want you to have to go through it 34:34.350 --> 34:37.890 because then you can't compete. We get no new ideas. It slows the entire thing down. 34:38.270 --> 34:44.150 If the government could do like a lot of the CRO work, the clinical research organization work 34:46.070 --> 34:51.910 and do the testing for some of these biotechs, I mean, for instance, we had acquired a team 34:51.910 --> 34:59.230 from Boston, what they were spending $800,000 or so a month on, we're spending about $60,000 a month 34:59.230 --> 35:03.110 because we've fully vertically integrated. So we do all of our tests. We do everything in house. 35:03.950 --> 35:08.110 But most biotechs don't, I mean, nobody else really has that. That was our model. 35:09.110 --> 35:15.390 But if the NIH or NCI could do testing for these trials, it would dramatically lower the cost. 35:15.570 --> 35:20.050 I mean, the cost for the testing when they send out the samples, the markup is outrageous. 35:20.050 --> 35:27.470 And so that really hurts smaller biotechs from being able to really progress their research 35:27.470 --> 35:32.490 because everything costs so much, but it really doesn't cost that much when you do it in house. 35:32.590 --> 35:39.350 You have to have a certain amount of sample sizes. So if you run a flow cell on a sequencer, you 35:39.350 --> 35:42.350 need to make sure that flow cell is full because you're going to spend, whether you have 35:42.350 --> 35:47.490 one sample or 50 samples, the same amount. But if you can really solve those problems 35:47.490 --> 35:52.890 understand the math and the samples for the clinical trials, you can drop the cost tremendously. 35:53.470 --> 36:00.510 That's what we've built within our own system. But we're kind of the only ones, at least that 36:00.510 --> 36:05.650 I know that are like that. But that's what the model needs to do is to lower the cost, 36:05.790 --> 36:11.050 use common sense. We use first principles on everything. We question every way something 36:11.050 --> 36:18.530 is done. If it's just the way it's done, like, well, why? Why? Why? Why? And I think that is a 36:18.530 --> 36:27.350 way to get the cost down a lot. Just safety trials with the FDA. It's an interesting idea. 36:27.910 --> 36:32.650 I don't know how insurance would pay for these things afterwards if we don't know if they work. 36:32.990 --> 36:35.730 I'm sure he's thought about that, so I'd be interested to see what he has to say about it. 36:35.730 --> 36:43.090 But there's a lot of good ideas to do this, but people have to be open to it. 36:43.450 --> 36:48.170 And we've got to be open to breaking everything down to first principle. 36:49.070 --> 36:51.330 And that's where you can really find the savings in the health care. 36:52.350 --> 36:56.770 If people are interested in watching this, they have a cancer or an issue, 36:56.990 --> 37:00.790 where's the best way? Like website, where's all of your information? 37:00.790 --> 37:10.710 The tamcenter.com for the degenerative disease or cancer side, cpistemcells.com on the stem cell 37:10.710 --> 37:16.630 side, musculoskeletal. And we'll have our TAM Global and TAM Bioscience website up soon. 37:17.050 --> 37:21.810 All right, very cool. Look, I know part of your story when we were interviewing you was, 37:22.030 --> 37:27.390 you got arrested and actually went to jail right before your life made this transition. 37:27.390 --> 37:30.670 Can we talk about that on off the record? Maybe how that affected you? 37:30.690 --> 37:31.410 Sure, let's do it. 37:31.690 --> 37:36.650 In motor video? Okay, awesome. Well, look, if you want to know a little bit more about TAM, 37:37.870 --> 37:40.050 here's an incredible video that shows you what they got going on. 37:40.470 --> 37:44.590 Approximately 600,000 people die every year in the United States of cancer. 37:45.250 --> 37:47.450 700,000 people die of heart disease. 37:48.090 --> 37:51.570 And chronic disease is an epidemic of monumental scale. 37:51.850 --> 37:56.010 There's too many people that are dying because they don't have the access they need 37:56.010 --> 38:02.130 to the leading edge scientists to the advanced diagnostics and the next generation therapeutics. 38:02.350 --> 38:04.570 It sounds dramatic, but I was planning my funeral. 38:04.830 --> 38:06.210 I felt like you're shooting myself in the head. 38:06.350 --> 38:11.230 My oncologist at Dana Farber Cancer Center said no one's lived longer than three years. 38:11.370 --> 38:14.590 I can't tell you how I'm going to live, but I have a choice of how I'm going to die. 38:14.990 --> 38:21.610 I do believe that an individual has the right to at least make an informed decision about what 38:21.610 --> 38:26.850 is their best option for anything in life, including treatment of their own terminal disease. 38:27.070 --> 38:30.710 As it stands right now, it could take anywhere from 10 to 15 years 38:30.710 --> 38:32.790 for patients to get access to certain treatment. 38:32.950 --> 38:37.090 Why should a patient wait 10 to 15 years when they don't even have 10 to 15 months? 38:37.470 --> 38:41.530 I think it's important for the world to understand TAM is trying to see 38:41.530 --> 38:44.070 and then help propagate a new model. 38:44.230 --> 38:46.070 It's going to have a ripple effect. 38:46.410 --> 38:48.910 The idea of TAM Center started with a question. 38:48.910 --> 38:52.830 What if we could put some of the leading scientists in the world, 38:53.110 --> 38:59.050 the manufacturers, the inventors, the creators of these leading edge therapeutics and diagnostics 38:59.050 --> 39:04.150 into one location, working side by side with medical doctors 39:04.150 --> 39:09.090 so their breakthroughs aren't so far away from the clinic and the patient? 39:09.390 --> 39:12.790 What if we could have the scientists working directly with the doctor, 39:13.090 --> 39:16.890 solving these complex problems in a regulatory environment that 39:16.890 --> 39:20.410 favored the patient's outcome over the red tape? 39:20.850 --> 39:22.650 We are recruiting the best scientists. 39:22.910 --> 39:24.310 We're recruiting the best doctors. 39:24.570 --> 39:27.670 We have Franco Marin-Cola who is the chief of infectious disease 39:27.670 --> 39:30.370 and immunogenetics for the National Institutes of Health. 39:30.750 --> 39:34.750 He is the founder and editor-in-chief of the Journal of Translational Medicine 39:34.750 --> 39:38.830 and he's the co-editor of one of the main textbooks that oncologists use 39:38.830 --> 39:40.390 for immunotherapy for cancer. 39:40.670 --> 39:43.550 The TAM leadership are revolutionizing 39:43.550 --> 39:48.390 beyond the boundaries, the healthcare landscape. 39:48.710 --> 39:51.230 We have Elias Adi as our new chief innovation officer. 39:51.630 --> 39:56.030 He invented the very first proteomic product using next generation sequencing. 39:56.430 --> 39:59.610 You can get the best genomic data, you can get the best proteomic data, 39:59.770 --> 40:01.550 you can get the best methylation data, 40:01.790 --> 40:05.830 but we're the first to combine it in a true multi-omic approach. 40:06.490 --> 40:13.230 Multiomics is the comprehensive tools that look at human health at different angles. 40:13.230 --> 40:17.550 They're expanding the different options that a physician has to treat the patient. 40:17.730 --> 40:20.650 We want to help the people that nobody else is willing to help. 40:20.770 --> 40:24.470 We want to go that extra mile to do whatever it takes when everybody else is given up. 40:24.630 --> 40:26.430 We are at the intersection of revolution. 40:27.310 --> 40:28.450 The patients are demanding. 40:28.650 --> 40:31.070 It's making the ultimate difference of saving lives. 40:31.350 --> 40:32.530 There's nothing bigger than that.