Boom, I am here with the one and only Patrick Smith and we are in the same room
We've had interviews from a couple thousand miles many many a time at least
Arizona whatever
But having just done our approaching humanity event, which was a ridiculous circus
That was very fun, and I'm very pleased with the outcome. I don't know if anybody else is but I am
Decided to a rose channel.com. Yeah, the rose channel.com
I never remember to do that
So I decided to kidnap him and bring him back to Phoenix because Phoenix in July
That's you know, where else would you want to be but the hottest place on the planet? I think it's better in Dallas in July
Yes, it was it's hotter, but not human. Yeah drink water or you'll die. Yeah, but otherwise it's still more comfortable
115 is literally more comfortable than 90 degrees in Pennsylvania. Mm-hmm. Which is weird
However having dragged him down the forecast over moving on yeah
In the weather tomorrow we figured hey since we're in the same location, which is a rare occurrence
We might as well do a video responding to some random comments by people
To like have a few little chunks of responding to things people think about and say about and I don't know how many of
Them are worth an entire video on their own, but we can do a responding to people's inputs and complaints and
Whatever that yeah, if we get one that's like, oh, that's a huge topic. We can do something bigger
I don't think this is our or we've already done full videos. Yeah
all right, um
So Alfredo says
Some talk on objective morality would be good. I know y'all had the back and forth about it in the letters for manicus series
But an in-person discussion would be good, too
Yeah, let's save that one for a later comment
Let's move on and we'll come back to that one audaciously disobedient
Says a discussion about things that could be argued and not violate the nap
But you would still fund the enforcement of and be willing to be held accountable for funding it
And so like I was thinking okay
I could think of some things in a free market where I would you know fund
But then he puts in parentheses like speed limits drunk driving hooping on beaches
openly masturbating to women or children in public
so
Am I immediately my immediate response when you first read that was well who owns the places like other than that last one you
Can like
Involving children you can say that I don't care if the owner is okay with that like that's can still be traumatic to kids in such a way
That I don't give a crap with the owners, okay with it
But for most of that it's like well if the if the guy who owns the road says yeah, you can drive a hundred ninety here
Okay, then you can drive a hundred ninety there
So most of his examples I would say actually count as acts of aggression anyway. I'm at least in the broader sense
So they wouldn't be and and that would sort of be my answer anyway is if it's in my freaking house around my property
Then I can make up any damn rules I want
And and have them enforced of course. They're mostly enforced by
Don't be here if you're gonna do that rather than I'm not gonna tell you ahead of time
And if you come in here and say the wrong word, I'm gonna blow your head off like it's it's not really the way to do it
But the the freedom of disassociation and the being able to say you don't get to be here by and I mean
That's the thing I practice on like my Facebook page and YouTube channel people like it's censorship like this is my thing a channel
I'm not stopping you from saying whatever the hell you want somewhere else
But if you come here and make stupid troll noise that doesn't add anything to the discussion
Yeah, I'm gonna delete and block you
Like
You believed in freedom go be free over there
Freedom and I use the analogy like if you came to my living room to give a stupid troll rant about something irrelevant
I would say get out of my living room. You're allowed to say that you're just not allowed to say that in my living room
Because I get to decide who's in my living room
and that solves so many things including the
Thing we just mentioned the the other interview if there's some people like in this household
We don't use that word. Okay, then you can say
People who use that kind of language you don't come in here and some people will do that
You know, they'll be religious communities that are like you're gonna be dressed head to toe in a
burlap sack
Or you don't come on to our property and other people can prance around in bikinis and go
Yeah, if you want to do that you can do that over here and there isn't a need for conflict
But I would say that's all still within the non-aggression thing because it's it's the trespass thing is if you're here without my
Permission and without my permission just means hey, I told you if you're gonna be here
Don't do that and you did that so don't be here. Yeah, it's literally just property rights and all the the
Rules made up by the property owner like doesn't matter what they are
That's kind of irrelevant to the thing of I get to decide who's here
I can say if you like k-pop you can't set foot on my property
It's like yeah, it's a little arbitrary, but it's just property rights is the basis of all of that
Yeah, I agree a hundred percent, but just to make sure that we give a satisfied answer
Let me try the opposite direction where it's like okay future Patrick in future free society
I'm living in a neighborhood or I'm thinking of purchasing a house in a neighborhood
And I find a neighborhood that has an HOA and part of the HOA's agreements are that okay
If you buy a house and you live here you have to agree not to let like homeless people sleep on your sidewalk or your lawn
And we and we pay a defense company to patrol our neighborhoods to make sure that that doesn't happen
So that would be something that I would pay for I would be fine joining the HOA and
You know paying my whatever they call the annual fee to be in your HOA dues or whatever
Help fund the defense agency to keep the neighborhood free of you know people sleeping on the street or whatever
I would do that and
And you say would I still fund the what I'd be willing to be held accountable for funding it?
Yeah, because you know we're we're enforcing the will of the property owners in that area, so yeah
And it can be yeah, so it still falls back to property rights and it can be
Anything anybody wants you know we we don't make any sound above a whisper out after eight o'clock, okay?
Yeah, make sure you let everybody know that and then yeah
I was just trying to come up with something that I actually would yeah want to have a rule for yeah
like I live in an HOA now and
You know it's pretty typical
It's not run by like busy bodies like a lot
That's nice, but there are rules and the rules do get enforced on me sometimes and it's a little bit annoying
But I I agreed so I can't complain like yeah, yep
You're right my grass sure is longer than I agreed to allow my grass to get so I will take your $25 fine
because I forgot and and
Move on my life. That's look. That's that's come. That's agreements. That's consent. That's property rights
You know it would be like violating the consent and property rights of my neighbors if I you know didn't
Go along with that system that I agreed to yeah
I think the biggest potential for catastrophes that HOA often turn into is I
Agree to this set of rules and whatever random rules they make up in the future
And I think in a world of people who are self-owning and understand that people would go that we're not doing that part
You don't get to in the future change the rules and I'm bound to whatever you decide to make up
Which is how most of them work now. Yes, but right now you kind of don't have that choice because it's people are so used to being in the
Subject mentality that they assume HOA is well, you can make up new rules and have board meetings and do your little pseudo government
Routine and then change the rule now your grass has to be
Quarter and shorter than that you have to buy a new lawnmower just because we change the rules
And I think that's something that in an actually free society people wouldn't
Agree to but in this society because it's so much the norm like good luck finding a place that I mean in Arizona
There are places where there aren't a HOA's there are you a's I figure it's it's basically like maintain the roads and
There's a public well over there
The end like and you chip in a very much smaller amount so that you can have access to the well and the road to your place
The HOA thing was a perfect
Subject matter
Lesson I forgot the word for that is for my children
Yeah, because my kids are very aware of our opinions on the government and how it's not okay to make rules for people without their agreement
And then they also see us like bitching about getting fined for our grass getting too long
Yeah, well, so it's like a government. No, and so then we sit down when we explain in clear terms
Look the difference is we didn't have to move here
We chose to and they handed us a contract
Failed out exactly what we'd be subject to if we lived here and we agreed and it's like that's what the government never does and never has done
And that's why it's not valid
It's like this shit is so easy kids can get it. Yeah, but grown adults need you to like ours
All right, let's see so this one I don't know how deep we want to go into it
It's for moose he says the anarcho-christian topic that we touched on during that last stream that we did
They want to hear my argument about why I think anarcho-christians
Can't be anarchists
Well, let's do it. I think I can argue their side
Okay, just might not be and I kind of didn't want to do that without one of them here to talk to you because it's like
Oh, I'm just gonna own the people that don't hear to defend themselves
That's not how I like doing it. I think I can take I think I can take their position
I think I know it well enough. Okay, so
And if they think I didn't they can yell at me and if you and if you know a one that wants to talk through it
I'm happy to do it. I'd be I'd be more comfortable talking about this with opposition. Mm-hmm. Okay, so
It usually comes down to the objective source of morality
being present in their God and
And it also comes down to where the it's like Larkin's argument when he talks about the government
He's like, okay, the government has a law
That you fundamentally disagree with
Can you choose not to follow the law if it's evil enough and
Most humans thankfully Larkin's right most humans will say no
I wouldn't follow that
Evil law like if there's a law that told me to kill my neighbor
I wouldn't do that and I would put my judgment above the law, right?
dare you and
And so you can kind of take that exact same argument and apply it to faith in God
God is the law giver the law law giver the objective
Law eternal universal law giver there can't be a more valid law giver than if there was a
God up there make having law opinions on us, right and
And so you can kind of frame all of the same arguments that Larkin makes about the state
About God like if God tells you to do or to not do something that violates your conscience in some way
Are you going to decide to violate God's will are you gonna put your judgment above the law?
and and also I
Guess I could make another
angle of attack
And just saying like the definition of anarchism is and Arcos no rulers and so to say
That you believe God is your Lord Lord and
Savior and he is your king. They will say no king, but Christ is a slogan of a lot of anarcho Christians
you can't square a
king with
Being an anarchist like those terms are directly in contradiction
Unless you make like a special pleading exception like okay, I just mean no kings that are humans
But kings that are gods are okay. It's like
Okay, but it's still a king
So but look like and let me let me and I'll shut up after this so that you can say say whatever I
Get along great with a great many
Anarcho-christians and I really don't care
If someone is an anarcho-christian because they affirm the non-aggression principle now
They may affirm the non-aggression principle because they think their God told them to I don't care. That's fine
I really don't care how you get to the non-aggression principle as long as you do it in a way that I can believe
You're going to stick to long term right because that then I can trust you
So this is not like a personal thing where I'm like
Shitty about it with people or like I am perfectly good friends with an anarcho-christians
Yeah, if you want to have the philosophical debate about it
I'm happy to and I think I can make good arguments against why it's incompatible
so and I think for a lot of
Self-described Christians like people who wear that label that argument totally works because it it's still
True that if if you think your God commanded something when you're like, that's not sure about that
The logic still applies even if you think it's a deity
But I don't think it has to apply to Christians. I don't think it has to apply to religious people in general that
Being a Christian necessarily is in conflict with that and one of the things I will often ask
Somebody who's a Christian is which of these describes and I've said this before which of these describes your God more closely
All-knowing all-powerful thing makes up rules and if you disobey you get punished basically the authoritarian government version or
All-carrying all-loving guide who is telling you what will make you
Happy and fulfilled because it'll be in line with what you're supposed to be in other words
It isn't obey me or I'll kick you. It's
Like do if you don't behave in this way, it's gonna screw up your soul
And the funny thing is I I grew up in a little religion. I won't bother to get into detail about that
There was very much about the latter and it was it was based on the writings of a guy named Emmanuel Swedenborg and his
Description of the other world isn't it was basically nobody gets cast into hell
The people who die in the afterlife don't want to be in the place where people get along and think they own themselves
And the funny thing is he describes hell and it is exactly the US political system
It's literally they take turns trying to violently govern each other and they fight and they hate each other
They can't stand being among people who just peacefully coexist and that's already true in this world. So
doctrine aside if somebody doesn't view like their God as and the term king does sort of imply the authoritarian thing
He tells me what to do and punished me if I disobey
So that you know, that's a point in favor of your argument
But I've seen more and more religious people side with no
It's it's somebody who wants me to do what is in line with what we're supposed to be
Because that's what makes us happy and fulfilled and it is and the thing is
The the issue of you know, well, what if you disagree with that that rule here's all we're all say something
That that may offend a few religious people. I know I've said it in front of you
I think most people are better better than their religions tell them to be
That's definitely because if you read Deuteronomy through 13 if you want an excuse to be a violent intolerant psychopath
It's right there, but most Christians read that and they will either say
Well, that was like the guidance for the old generations or Paul wrote that and we did like we don't really think that
That's the word of God like that. That wasn't Jesus saying that or what will get a phone call from God that changes some rules
Right and some real change
Whatever their reason I and you know the the doctrinal side I don't particularly care
But if they basically have a reason to say no, I don't like murder anybody who doesn't believe in the God
I believe in that screwed up
Good, I don't particularly care why and it may be it may be excuse making inside their head where it's like
Well, the Bible does talk about like anybody who doesn't believe in our God go slaughter them all and leave
But you know no stone on top of another and slaughter all their animals and everything else
Deuteronomy 13 if you don't believe me among other places
But the fact that lots of of christians will go. Yeah, but we're not supposed to do that
That's old testament stuff now like we care what Jesus said and how he described
You know, you should interact with other people, which is 100 anarchist
incidentally
And so and I think that's true of lots of like you can look at the the
How many you can look at the uh the Quran
And go well these passages say that and I constantly see christians going look what that Quran says
Look what Deuteronomy 13 says
how many um
followers
Of islam
Or like yeah murder anybody who doesn't agree with you like most of them go no, we don't do that
Some of them do just like some christians go rah rah rah for warmongering
Actually that christian nation and it will blow you up if you disagree
um
So to me as a you know, I've I know I've said this to you too
I don't care whether somebody calls themselves a christian because the label somebody affixing that label to themselves
Means absolutely nothing to me because I see all the way bootlicking nationalist psychopaths
Calling themselves christians and I see other like totally tolerant
volunteers sweet people
um calling themselves christians and are like well if you're all wearing that label
Then I have to ask some questions to figure out what you actually are because that label isn't anything
By itself. It doesn't mean anything if people call themselves that and then might be just bootlicking psychos
Or might be actual tolerant people who know how to peacefully coexist. I kind of like the word anarchist
Uh, yeah psychos that are
communist
Imagine that yeah, I you were I mean you're spot on with bringing up that there's a vast
Wide and deep spectrum of people that call themselves christian christians
And there's all there's all the way from the super anemic sort of watered down
ideas of god, which don't really conflict very much with
The nap or with self ownership. That's really the thing. Yeah, like
Self-ownerships kind of
At the root of a lot of our ideas and if your faith
Leaves you believing that your owned property of god instead of yourself
That's a significant root change
That brings back in the concept of a ruler. Yeah, and I I mean this trying not to get too
drastically doctrinal and philosophical or anything
But when people say well god owns me
I say no he doesn't
Like do you have free will you have a conscience? Do you have the ability to choose?
If your creator gave you free will
He gave up ownership of you because he gave you the ability to decide things
Like if I made a robot
But it and let it and gave it the ability to freely choose its own thing and then say you're my robot
It's going to go. No, I'm not
And from its perspective, why would it view me as its owner? Even if I was its creator
And so and I know people can debate about things that like
How you phrase it kind of who cares in the end?
But I think if you have free will and a conscience and you can tell right from wrong
Using this whether it's influenced by religion or your internal moral compass or whatever you want to call it
To say that you're owned even by god doesn't make any sense because like
If you think god is the thing that gave you free will and the ability to judge right from wrong
He let you loose. It's like a parent who got you ready to be a self-owning adult
And then like you're free there you go and to go wait, I'm still your parent
I own you like you probably shouldn't have given me free will then because now I don't care
Even if they still respect the god and so I've had some of these
You know sort of debates with people and and sometimes it comes down to semantics
But I would say no god doesn't own you even though he made you
And if he made you he's the thing that made him not
Own you by giving you free will and a conscience and the ability to choose and the ability to judge
Like he he let you loose
It's like if he if he was your rightful owner at some point
Theoretically and he freed you you're free and you are if you have free will
If that thing gave you free will wherever it came from you're free now you're self-owning now
And some christians are gone. Yeah, that totally makes sense and some are well. He's still always being like
Yeah, it's very difficult to argue against
The christian worldview because it's just so broad like yeah every single christian
And they argue amongst themselves. It's gonna have a totally different idea of this
All right, let me say one more thing and you can respond and then we're gonna move on because this video isn't supposed to be all about this
All right, so I would just say that um
That that theory would be fine if if he gave you ownership by bestowing upon you, you know
consciousness and free will or whatever
But if that is the case
Then he still should have asked your consent to be subject to the suffering of this existence that he
Created and put you in you should have asked your consent to be subject to whatever rules he has in place
And and if if he didn't if he did that without your consent
He's doing things to you
In an aggressive nap violating way doesn't that apply to every parent?
Yes
Yeah, that in fact, that's where I got this argument, right? So
I
I treat my kids like they own themselves to the maximal degree absolutely right, but you inflicted existence upon them
But I didn't create the existence
Like you help that's the difference like that's that's the difference. He created this
Oh, okay, assuming because he's to blame for the universe assuming he's omnipotent and omniscient all the stuff
He created it with full foreknowledge of how it was going to work with all the suffering that you were going to experience
And he's like boom. Good luck. Patrick. Like he didn't ask me for that. He could have he's omnipotent
He could have popped me into existence before you know making me be born and be like, hey
All right, here's your options. You have an option like he could do this like
This is what blows my mind about like
These conceptions of god is like if he's omnipotent then he could literally like pop you into existence to be like, all right
You're about to have existence if you want
Behind door number one is earth. It's got some suffering. It's got some happiness
You're gonna have some hard times, which are also gonna have some really good times
Behind door number two, you're gonna have garden of Eden the platonic existence with no pain and suffering
And that's what that's gonna be. You know, pick your door Patrick or none
If you just don't want to if this sounds like a shitty game
You could say no, you know, like he could have done that
And and that to me is the ultimate defeater
For any kind of argument for the existence of a good god that is also omniscient and omnipotent
I don't think those three traits can work together because we weren't asked for our consent. Okay, all right
That was my last word. I read your last word and then we'll move on
My last word will be greatly abbreviated from the rant I could go on
About about why might when people say do you believe in god?
I usually say no because what most people use that word to describe
Is so far from what I believe in that no, if that's what you mean by god, then I don't
Um, I do believe in a weird power way beyond my comprehension, but not
A guy like if it's a guy who chose to like a lot of christians goes to the thing of why would god allow this if he can just go there
Now children aren't suffering horribly like if you're a guy and you could have made that happen and you don't you're a jerk
And a lot of christians have trouble if they're picturing the simplified version of
If he could have made that not happen, he didn't you're not supposed to be on taking my side of this
I would have been saying all that too
So I'm saying that long enough to say I think that
A lot of people if they accept that okay god isn't just a guy
We can't just think of well a smarter version of us because then it doesn't add up
It has to be something way more profound and complex than that and way beyond our comprehension
To not just say well, you're a jerk if you could have made this not happen
And a lot of people are like wait, you know, the devil's tempting him. What why is there a devil?
Like if he made everything and a lot of those questions come up, I think
But I think they come up from our our tendency to oversimplify and just think of it. Well, he's a big big nice guy
I'm not trying to be demeaning about it. Um
I'm insulting him more than you are and I'm supposed to be on their side
But I think a lot of people realize it isn't it isn't that simple and it's beyond our
Comprehension like how it really works so that it isn't just you're jerking you allowed horrible things to happen
But the simplified version that's a perfectly valid complaint
But I think a lot of christians are like if there's more to it than that
We don't necessarily understand what it is or how it works and we have some theories and some of them sound totally bogus and whatever
But if they they if they basically just say
Like it isn't as simple as it's a guy with switches and levers up in the clouds going. Yep
You get to suffer a little kid. Ha ha talks to be you because yeah, if it's that you're crappy god
Um, but they understand that okay. It's something
You think it is a guy with switches and levers? No, I'm saying like the vast majority of christian
Okay, look
Actually, let's let's end this video here. Maybe we'll do another one with some more because this has been this has gone on too long
I'm always
I say I'm always happy to talk about this
But our channels are not really about
Theism and apologetics and anti apologetics. It's kind of a distracting divisive
Thing and like I said and he would agree like I don't care as long as you're like a
Good anarchists that will stand shoulder to shoulder with me against the tyrants of the world that don't you believe that
We own ourselves. Yeah, if do unto others as you would have done unto you if we're good with that forget
The press doesn't matter now if you're like if you're just a philosophy nerd like I am and really are interested in having apologetics and anti
Apologetics discussions join my discord and we'll have those voice chats probably just won't put them on this channel because it's kind of like
Yeah, unneccesary and divisive, but it's fun for people who like to think it is fun
It's one of my it's like my hobby philosophy. I do anarchy primarily, but my hobby philosophy is like apologetics
Anyway, all right, cool. We'll end this one there and maybe do another one with the rest of these
Yeehaw