Prologue, Mountie, 019.
A field somewhere in Northern Ontario, Canada, December 26, 2020.
I'd never flown in a plane before, much less a helicopter.
When I was 16, Mateo and I took the train to Toronto
to see a Leafs game.
Even for the grade eight trip to Quebec,
we traveled in one of those two-story coaches
with the tinted windows.
Now, strapped to a yellow cot,
wrapped in some sort of emergency, crinkly, sub-zero sleeping bag,
I stared at the air ambulance that awaited me.
It was painted orange with the letters O-R-N-G-E on the side,
as if they left out the A to save money.
From above, its windshield extended a metal spike
like a unicorn's horn,
except this orange flying unicorn had only three legs,
two in the back and one in the front,
disappearing into a foot of snow.
Through the haze of pain,
I could barely see the evergreen trees
that surrounded the field,
serving as a barrier against the howling wind.
The dark night was lit by the headlights
of many police vehicles
and the red and blue light bar of an ambulance.
Overhead, the blades of the medical copter
were whipping in circles,
making the cold December air even colder,
at least at none the excruciating pain in my chest a little.
On the unicorn's tail,
a tiny vertical propeller was also spinning
like a windmill in a hurricane,
proving how the seemingly inconsequential
can alter the direction of the large and powerful.
Those are the dramatic opening paragraphs
of the prologue to Much A Do About Corona,
which is a book by Canadian author John Manley,
which builds itself as a novel about real love
and a fake pandemic that tells the fictional story
of a very unusual,
well, I suppose, romance that occurs
during the lockdowns in Ontario,
in a fictional town in Ontario in 2020,
going into 2021.
And it is an incredibly interesting novel,
especially I would imagine for my readers,
listeners I should say,
who are interested in exploring the madness of the world
from a different lens
and one that is sympathetic to the worldview
that I imagine many of my viewers share.
And if you are interested in that,
I will commend this to your attention.
It's a book, as I say,
set in a fictional town in Ontario
during the lockdowns as the world descended into madness
in 2020.
And it follows a regular Joe named Vincent McKnight
who travels down the rabbit hole, as it were,
and ends up engaging in a romance with a baker
who's attempting to keep her bakery open.
No summary that I give of this story
can really do justice to it in its fuller details.
But it is an example of a phenomenon
that I would like to think that my viewers
are probably well situated to understand by now,
but let's talk about it.
Resistance fiction.
Yes, that's right.
Of course, recently here on Solutions Watch,
I was talking about resistance cinema.
And of course, you can go back in the archives
for that podcast exploration.
But today I want to talk about resistance fiction,
which as I say is something that I have discussed
a number of times.
So I would imagine my viewers are already
well situated to understand it.
But here on Solutions Watch, for example,
I've talked about writing a new narrative
and how important narrative is to shaping not just
our worldview, but then how we act in the world
based on that worldview.
You can look at subscriber exclusive videos I did.
I did one back a few years ago on The Ring,
as in The Lord of the Rings and the allegory
that exists or doesn't exist in that book
and what it teaches us about resistance.
I've talked about 1984, of course.
You'll remember my episode 114 on Newspeak
is Double Plus on Good.
And of course, there is the entire film literature
in the New World Order podcast series,
the raison d'être of which is or was or may be
to introduce people to works of, well,
resistance fiction, resistance cinema,
as well as dissecting some propaganda from time to time.
So yes, I take it as a given that people out there
understand the importance of fiction
in shaping our worldview and thus shaping our reality.
And especially when there are enough people
who have reached a certain threshold of consciousness
along these lines, it can be the ripple effect
that truly changes the world around us.
So if narrative does change the world,
then who are today's myth makers?
Who are writing the narratives today
that will shape the world of tomorrow?
Well, as I say, this is one example of such a phenomenon.
It's Much Ado About Corona by John C. A. Manley,
who also has another book called
All the Humans Are Sleeping.
And this book is set in a different fictional universe
than the Much Ado About Corona,
but perhaps a related one,
or maybe just further down the road, as it were.
This one takes place in the near future
after a nuclear apocalypse of sorts
sends people scurrying into the metaverse
to escape the dreary, horrible reality of existence.
And it talks about a couple of the lonely
and lowly human survivors of that event
who decide, well, who are or are not
going to go into the metaverse.
And again, it's a fictional telling of a tale
that is already happening to a certain extent in real life,
just not obviously to that far of an extent.
So it allows the reader to see and explore
the consciousness of what is coming down the road,
what we are stepping into, why so many people
are blithe to the real dangers
that these technologies represent,
and what should people be thinking about that?
And I think both of these books do a good job
of giving a fair view to the other side of the equation
to real human beings who have their qualms
about, for example, the virus spreaders
or people who are, you're just an old funny dude
who doesn't like technology.
The people in these stories are not two-dimensional characters.
They are fully fleshed out human beings
with their own backgrounds and stories and motivations,
which I think makes it a rewarding read.
So obviously the links to both of those stories
will be in the show notes for today's episode of Solutions Watch,
so you can go and purchase copy,
explore these books for yourself.
But I had the chance to talk to John C. A. Manley
about his writing, about the concept of resistance fiction,
and about the line between resistance fiction
and predictive programming,
to what extent our writers who are warning
about a possible future
are actually helping to conjure that possible future
into existence with their words.
Some very interesting topics.
So I started by asking John about Much Ado About Corona.
Well, I mean, with Much Ado About Corona,
it was, well, March, I guess March 2020,
I remember sitting there watching the Prime Minister of Canada
announce that we all had to go into lockdown.
And that immediately to me, I was just,
every cell in my body screaming,
this is a forest, this is a authoritarian takeover.
I didn't believe for a second that it had to do with viral epidemic.
I was willing to believe that some of the politicians
and other players on the lower level were actually believing it,
but at the top I didn't think it was very likely.
And I felt very scared, not of a virus,
but of where this was leading
when they're telling people they have to all be locked up.
I remember the Prime Minister getting up
and criticizing people for meeting on the beach
and how they had, you know,
just criticizing people for getting together in public.
So I decided I was going to, I just decided to start,
I was actually in the midst of writing another urban fantasy
that I'd been working on for about a year.
I decided just to put that down for a day,
I wanted to write a short story about where I saw this going.
So I typically write on the wall,
so I taped a few pieces of paper to the wall
and started writing a short story.
And that short story continued day after day after day.
Where I was putting in about one to two hours every day
and I decided I'm just going to have to finish this.
If it was interesting, like I was saying,
the Machadoobo Corona was originally set in 2030,
like far in the future where I thought that,
well not that far in the future,
where I thought this was going.
And I started writing flashbacks
and the flashbacks were set in 2020,
which ended up being what the book became.
Yeah, that's an interesting approach.
So you already know where this story is going.
For people who haven't read it,
it sort of ends on a cliffhanger.
So there is more to this story.
Yeah, no, basically I haven't written to the end,
but I got a lot of fillers
and ended up adding so many characters to the originals
that I have to find a home for them
or kill them or something.
No, I can imagine just keeping all those characters,
all those balls in the air and sorting out who's who
and oh yeah, this person over here.
Anyway, beyond the logistics of writing it,
obviously the question is how did people receive it?
And was this a, you know,
was this a surprise to people who already knew you
in your writing or did this introduce you to new audiences?
Did this gain you some new friends or enemies?
Well, I definitely lost a lot of friends with that.
It was, I took two years to finish the book,
so it was kind of a progression,
like when I was working on it originally,
the criticism was extremely high.
By, you know, 2022, the skepticism around COVID
had grown significantly.
I'd say, like, I had relatives actually telling me,
do not publish this.
This is very dangerous that you could get hurt
or, you know, imprisoned.
I don't know what they were thinking.
I mean, the first year of the pandemic
and so our scandemic in Canada,
I found was pretty totalitarian
and was going in an increasingly in that direction.
Like I had, I was in addition to writing the book
also publishing like an article a day
trying to convince people that this was a hoax,
which originally I thought was going to be all I needed to do
was just provide the information
because it was so obviously a far fetched.
And I realized it was,
most people's reaction to the pandemic
was emotional, not intellectual.
So that's why I kind of started
veering more towards focusing on the novel
because the novel is essentially in a lot of ways
an emotional way to connect with people.
I've been very surprised.
Like for example, I get emails from nurses
or PSWs who are working in the nursing homes
during the pandemic and saying that I
really captured what was happening in there,
except if anything, I toned it down a bit
because I had a lot of firsthand experience
the nursing home in our town,
the military came in because it was such a mess.
There was, you know, residents who hadn't had
their bed changed in like three days.
They'd soiled their sheets and feeding tubes
clogged, rotting food in the room.
So I didn't want to make it that disgusting
in my novel.
So I toned it down a bit,
but also just a contour,
not the controversy,
the conflict within the nurses
about being in this environment,
trying to do their best with staff disappearing,
not being able to give a patient a bath
for like one month.
So I got a very good reaction
and a surprising reaction from various nurses
and people in the healthcare field
who saw it firsthand.
And I get messages like,
I thought I was going crazy.
There was something wrong with me
because everything, you know,
I'd have to shut down part of my brain
to accept that what was happening around me
was proper and normal and ethical.
So on that side, I got that.
I mean, mainstream media has told us they ignored me.
I've had several times where interviews
were being set up with mainstream outlets.
And soon enough, because I said,
I got a novel that really looks at both sides
of the controversy.
And I think I did a very good job
in the novel of like the characters
who were for the lockdown
of actually giving them a real devil's advocate.
Can I just interject here?
I wanted to say that was one of the things
I really appreciated about this novel
is that people aren't just caricatures.
It could have been very easy, I think,
to write about the evil constable on patrol
who's trying to lock everybody down
for no reason whatsoever,
just because he's a tyrannical asshole.
But in this case, no, it's because he has
a very, very personal, emotional reason
for being attached to this narrative.
And you drew that out in a way that really hits home.
So I thought that was one of the greatest things
about the novel is that people aren't just
two-dimensional, you know, character cutouts.
These are actual human beings who have fleshed
out stories for motivation
of why they're doing what they're doing.
Yeah, no, I appreciate hearing that
because a constable Corona was an interesting one
because when I did write him the first draft,
or about the fourth draft,
he was still a very two-dimensional,
kind of badass cop who just wanted
delighted in the power trip on people.
And I showed it, I had the draft
shown to the cover artist, Jordan Henderson.
And that was his response because he just
seems like a 2D cutout, you know, it's just this badass cop.
So I scratched him and, you know,
this is part of the reason it took a thousand hours
to write the novel.
And I went back and I changed him.
I made him older.
He was just on the verge of retirement.
He was kind of a thinner cop.
But like you said, the reason that
he is doing this
get revealed slowly throughout the novel
and his progression from
basically probably being a real nice guy cop
who was probably, you know, just trying to do his best,
you know, I'm not saying he was an angel
to what he becomes by the end of the novel,
which is largely a result not of him
but of the circumstances that he was put into
by the, you know, the government
and the measures that were enforced on them.
Interestingly, another character that
people are really like,
I was really pleased to see that
the response was so well to him was Raj,
who is the one character in the novel
who's kind of on the fence between,
you know, the resistance and not the resistance.
You kind of get the impression he doesn't,
he kind of buys into the whole COVID stuff,
but he doesn't like the fact
it's being forced on his friends and his family.
So that character who was right on the fence,
I found I get so many people say
he was their favorite character,
even though he wasn't.
He was obviously an interesting character.
And yeah, I was trying to figure out at times
like is he, is he on their side or not?
I guess he kind of is, but not.
Yeah, it was an interesting dichotomy.
Yeah.
And then, I mean, one of the biggest things
that happened recently was the Kirkus Review,
which is a very prestigious magazine
in the United States for reviewing
both mainstream published books
and indie books.
They did a review of the novel,
which it's an interesting review
and because they definitely,
it sounded like they really liked the story
and the drama of it and the characters.
Like they actually referred to it as having,
you know, really, I forget what they word,
exactly they worded it,
but that they had really good character-driven scenes
and action and intrigue,
but they obviously, the message behind the story,
they were very on the other side of the fence.
They had one line,
and I've never heard before from a mainstream source,
but they said the novel is about
the fearful versus the vaccine ready.
All right, yeah.
The fearful versus the vaccine ready.
That's one way of putting it.
So anyway, it was an ideological review,
is what you're saying.
Yeah, they actually referred to it as,
they said that the argument,
the ideas got weighed down by the arguments
with the characters,
and I think to a degree they may have,
I'll give them some,
because I did feel by the end of it,
I think the novel could have been just a little less didactic
and done more through just the story itself
versus some of the debates
that some of the characters had between each other.
So I'll give them that,
that it may have just been a touch to on that side of the fence,
but I could see that argument,
but it's such an incredibly fine line to walk,
and it's difficult to thread that needle perfectly.
Of course, there is going to be some didacticism
in a novel like this,
but I thought it was refreshingly not
just hitting people over the head,
and there was enough, again, intriguing characters,
even the main character who doesn't come into this
from an ideological point of view,
just comes in through it from the outside,
which I think helps the average reader
sort of enter this world and this idea
that they probably hadn't contemplated before,
so I thought it was a powerful way of doing that.
But then you write this incredible,
fleshed out, detailed, hefty tome,
hundreds and hundreds of pages,
and leave it on a bit of a cliffhanger,
and don't worry, you're going to get right to the next one,
and then the next one comes along,
and it's not the second part at all.
It is all the humans are sleeping.
Tell us about this work and how it came about.
Yeah.
That one I actually started writing 20 years ago
was a short story I wrote before my son was born,
so it was originally a reaction
to that scene in the Matrix movie
when you see Neo wake up
and he realizes he's been living in this pod his whole life,
and that image, that scene in the movie
really, like, caused me to...
I don't know, it hit me to the core,
and that's what I love about stories,
when you can get that feeling,
and it's a hard to define feeling and hard to arrive at,
but that scene in the movie had that feeling for me,
which I think we've had over and over again,
you know, both in the freedom movement
or what we call the truce movement,
like, you know, when you wake up
and you suddenly realize that,
oh, government is basically just a violent organization
that threatens people's lives in exchange for their money,
and we're all told to think it's this,
you know, nice social welfare thing
that's helping keep poor people off the street
and make sure that drugies get enough heroin
through a designated clinic,
and, you know, I'm being a little fashisous there,
but I'm also being accurate, too.
And, you know, I had the same experience
with the medical system.
My late wife was very ill with kidney failure
and died of type 1 diabetes since she was a child,
and I went in kind of, at first,
working with the medical system,
and I just started to gradually realize
that there is nothing here
about trying to actually heal someone, you know,
and that this is God's other ulterior motives
and no one's getting better.
So, you know, so anyways,
all the humans are sleeping more directly was...
I had this idea where...
Well, we saw this kind of...
This is 20 years ago,
so the move to, like, the metaverse
and the term metaverse I don't think was used
at the time, but, you know, virtual reality,
like we saw in the Matrix movie, was an off...
future possibility.
For the record, I kind of doubt,
and I think I've heard you say this, too,
I kind of doubt whether it's biologically possible
to do some of this connection
between humans and machines,
but for the sake of the story and the metaphor,
I went along with it.
I'm also a bit skeptical of
whether you can have a full-scale nuclear attack
like I have in the novel,
but again, it was a story device rather than
trying to be factual.
My son's very angry at me.
He's like,
but dad, you're like...
I know you're very skeptical about
whether nuclear weapons can do this type of thing.
Why did you put it in the book, you know?
So, but I wanted to give this option,
like if we had the choice between
going into a virtual reality paradise
or living in real life, you know,
a lot of people will take the virtual reality,
a lot of people want real life,
but what if you just make real life,
you know, you basically blow it all up,
which is what the novel presents,
where there's a full-scale nuclear attack
and the remaining survivors
are basically living in silos
underneath the ground,
which is not a delightful way to live.
And I thought it was parallel
to what happened with the COVID vaccines mandates
because it was like,
you don't have to take the vaccine.
You just can't go to a restaurant.
You can't go to a movie.
You can't get on an airplane.
You can't leave the country.
You can't fly around the world.
Exactly.
Yes, it's part of
part and parcel of the general,
you know, making the world crappier
so that we'll want to escape into their digital
nirvana.
Question mark?
Well, anyway.
Yeah.
So it's, again,
another compelling gripping story
with some people that, again,
are fleshed out characters
who have their own motivations, et cetera.
But rather than talking about it,
why don't you read a little bit about it?
I was wondering if you could read a little passage,
first set up maybe this passage,
and then read a little passage from it,
like this beginning farmer's chapter.
This beginning farmer's chapter.
Yeah.
You want to play a part?
Oh, I could follow along.
Yes, sure.
Well, no, I was wondering,
do you want to read one of the characters?
You want to be the robot?
Yeah.
Can you do a British accent?
Do I have to do a British accent?
No.
Okay.
I'll do my best.
You lived in Ireland for quite a while,
weren't you?
I lived in Ireland for my parents.
Did you get to an Irish accent?
No, I don't know.
I don't know about my accent ability.
Well, I also suggested this chapter because
I wish I had read reportage before,
reportage before I had read
All the Humans are Sleeping
because this chapter deals with the doomsday vault.
And I hadn't actually heard the theory
that you brought up that the doomsday vault
was actually, you know,
possibly or very likely there
to deal with a GMO fallout,
you know, type situation.
GMO fallout type situation
where we just screw up our food supply so bad
we need to unfreeze some seeds.
To be fair, that's only one possible
apocalypse for which this could have been created.
I mean, take your pick.
Well, I took a pick.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
So, all right.
Well, each chapter starts with an epigraph
by Dr. Marta Wink,
which the story said in 2041,
but the epigraphs are from
2291.
Yeah, just one of the many reasons
for locating the Jakovari Agricultural Station
in the Tromsø-Oxfinmark County
in the northernmost tip of Norway
was to put it as close as possible
to what was popularly known as the doomsday vault
located on the arctic archipelago
of Svalbard, 1200 kilometers north
of mainland Norway.
This Svalbard global seed vault
contained 930,000 varieties of crops.
It had costs in the region
government 45 million kroner
to construct in 2006.
By 2042, the seeds it preserved
had become priceless.
Dr. Marta Wink, Ph.D.,
the rise and fall of 21st century man.
Volume 3, page 213,
Rebirth Press 2291.
Peter caught up with Rebecca
just in time to see Domestika, the robot,
usher her into her new room.
She gassed.
This is like a hotel suite.
Domestika's stoic expression
broke into another one of its silicone smiles.
It looked authentic,
but Peter knew it was a calculated response
rather than a true expression of happiness.
I went with a Victorian feel.
Explained the robot as British accent
making the room feel all the more Victorian.
Domestika stepped silently into the room
and pulled a golden cord on a lamp adorned
with a red, jackered textured bell shade
and black fringe.
Its light revealed in a night desk
made of polished wood
and a framed video screen on the wall
pretending to be a window.
The window screen displayed palm trees
hanging over a beach with ocean waves
lapping around a sand castle.
Rebecca sprinted through the doorway
leaping onto the raised mattress of the queen-size bed
in the center of the room.
She rolled over her.
She rolled over onto her back
and stretched out her arms.
I feel like a queen, she proclaimed.
Peter smiled, leaned toward Domestika and whispered,
nice job, butler bot.
So, said Rebecca,
do I get breakfast in bed?
If you so wish.
Answered Domestika.
I have been programmed in 42 different cooking styles
including Arab-British, Cajun, French, Indian, Italian,
Mexican, Vietnamese.
You mean you have real food here?
Asked Rebecca as she fluffed the red pillow behind her head.
We will.
Said Domestika.
Once we begin cultivating the greenhouse.
Oh, said Rebecca,
turning over onto her stomach and bearing her face.
I guess that means we're stuck with loop-poop.
She pretended to vomit into the pillow.
Loop is available.
Conceded Domestika.
But I've also secured a supply of wheat flour,
basmati rice, an assortment of dried beans,
semolina noodles, dehydrated mushrooms and tomatoes,
tomatoes, and a wide selection of frozen fruits,
vegetables, fish and meats.
But if you prefer a loop.
No, exclaimed Rebecca,
lifting her face from the pillow and inhaling deeply
and rather die than force down another loop shake.
We do not want you to die, Miss Stevens.
Peter cannot help but hear sincerity in the robot's voice.
Of course, these things could be programmed to imitate any emotion,
better than most human actors.
But for the first time, Peter was willing to entertain the thought
that this robot might truly be on their side.
Tell me, said Peter,
what kind of seed do we have to work with?
We've been given full access to the entire inventory
of the soil-bored global seed vault.
Reply, Domestika.
The doomsday vault, affirmed Peter.
Domestika nodded.
Thus we can grow just about every food crop known to man.
Ha! said Peter, returning a lopsided grin.
He'd read about the seed vault many years ago
on the National Geographic website.
It was buried in the side of some mountain in the Arctic Sea.
Yes, that was right.
The Norwegians had built it.
Peter shook his head.
Never in his most dystopian dreams would he have imagined
he'd be the one who'd make use of his contents.
Turning to Rebecca with raised eyebrows, he said,
I guess that means we can grow just about anything.
Rebecca rolled out of the bed onto her feet,
skipped over to Domestika and asked,
Can we grow pasta?
I want to be a spaghetti farmer.
Miss Stevens, spaghetti cannot be grown.
But we can grow durum wheat,
which in the base ingredient is the base ingredient in.
I know, it was just a joke.
Ah!
The robot laughed, it was good.
Very funny.
It wasn't that funny.
I apologize for my exuberance.
You said there's pasta.
Only macaroni noodles.
Any cheese?
Parmesan.
Vinnie Simmel, exclaimed Rebecca.
I'm starving.
That's for sure, said Peter.
Never fat, she had always been rather robust.
Growing up on a farm does that to a girl.
Living part-time in a human interface pod had done the opposite.
His daughter approached him and put her arm around his shoulder.
Mac and cheese dad, you want some?
If you're cooking, he extended his arms embracing her.
To a surprise, she didn't retreat.
For the first time since the blast,
he felt a flicker of happiness and a sliver of hope.
He knew it wouldn't be easy,
but he knew they could make it together.
She squeezed him back and turned to domestical.
I guess you don't eat, eh?
That is correct.
Too bad.
All the more for you two.
All right, she clapped her hands together.
Take me to your doomsday kitchen.
Of course.
Said the robot and stepped out into the corridor,
extending his arm and gesturing to the left.
This way, if you please.
A minute later,
Peter was still smiling as he listened to his daughter singing her new hit single
No More Loop Poop For Me.
While they followed domestical down the long corridor.
On the right, the sun streamed through the panoramic window.
Below the window, for the length of the corridor,
ran a railing which Rebecca was using for support.
Is she that out of shape?
Thought Peter.
And any more time in that pod,
and she deemed a wheelchair.
Ahead of him,
sorry, ahead of her,
she saw an approaching spider bot racing towards them along the floor.
Before scurrying up and along the wall
to avoid being trampled,
his magnetic pincers clamped softly as it passed Peter at shoulder height.
He turned, walking backwards,
to see a disappearance of the greenhouse.
Turning forward again, he glanced out the window.
The peak of neighboring Mount Valesfari
was carrying an enormous,
was casting an enormous shadow over the countryside below.
Suddenly, Rebecca spoke out,
Don, what's this?
She was pointing to a metal door with a button
in the shape of a downward pointing arrow.
Normally, Domestical's responses were instantaneous.
This time, Peter noticed a pause before it spoke.
It's an elevator.
Domestical finally disclosed.
I figured that.
Shot back, Rebecca.
Where does it go?
The lift descends fifteen stories into the mountain,
providing a protected bunker.
Another pause.
With twenty-four human interface pods.
What? Peter exclaimed.
What do we need those damn coffins for?
Simply as a precaution,
in case of a physical or psychological distress.
Peter was about to recommend dumping cement down the shaft,
but Rebecca spoke first.
You mean you can reconnect me?
She asked the question quickly.
Domestical tilted his head and said,
I beg your pardon, Miss Stevens.
I'm just asking, she repeated.
You're saying that you have human interface pods down there
that are connected to the Metaverse?
Well, said Domestical.
They are offline right now,
but yes, they can connect to the Metaverse at any time.
She put her hand on the door of the elevator
and turned to face its metal surface.
That's good to know, she said.
You know, for emergencies.
Peter realized he was holding his breath.
Rebecca turned back to him and smiled.
Let's go have some mac and cheese.
She reached out her hand.
Peter exhaled and clasped it.
Then she let go and pulled back.
Racia, she said.
She started running, letting out a happy yelp.
Peter laughed.
Everything's going to be alright, he thought.
Or at least, good enough.
He turned to Domestical and repeated the challenge.
Racia purple-bot.
Peter launched forward.
His legs felt stiff.
His lungs felt weak,
but for the first time in three months,
he felt alive.
Up ahead, he saw Rebecca suddenly halt.
Sway side to side for a second
and then reach out to her right.
Only the tips of her fingers brushed the railing
before she collapsed on the floor.
Yay! Thank you.
Very nice. Yes.
Very nice robot.
I think I need to work on it.
Everyone in the comments, please comment on my
absolutely terrible and offensive English accent.
But yes, an intriguing little bit of the story
and well, as all I can say is it makes sense
once you read it in its context.
But I think that gives a sense of what this story is like
and what it's about. Obviously,
generally speaking in the science fiction realm
and in fact, I believe it has been
honored with an award
or at least a nomination.
Tell us about that.
Yeah, it's been nominated for the Prometheus Awards
which is a specific,
I think it's considered the third most
well-known and successful
or popular science fiction award
for fiction novels.
But it's specifically for science fiction
or fantasy or kind of supernatural novels
that have a pro-liberty
and anti-authoritarian theme to them.
It's been around for, I believe,
about 27 years now.
So each year they nominate...
Right now this year we have 14 nominations.
I have two of the novels other than...
Well, all the humans are sleeping, of course.
Powerless by Harry Turtle Dove
which is an alternative fiction set.
It's kind of hard to tell the date
around probably 1960 California
but it's an alternative history
where the United States had joined the Soviet Union.
So there's a really cool opener to this
because the man, he's assigned a flower shop...
No, sorry, a vegetable shop
where he sells vegetables
and each year they give them a new poster
they have to put on the window of their store
promoting true communism
and that type of thing.
And this guy who's never been very rebellious
he just doesn't like the system
he just couldn't put the poster up that time
and that ricochets into so many things
which is similar to what I had done
with Machadoo about corona
because no one really did anything
to harm anybody in that novel
but the retaliation from the police
which escalates to a point
that if I wrote that novel back in like 19...
even 2010 you would say that was too far-fetched
and then, you know, now it's like...
So yeah, they got Turtle Dove
I got another Storm Dragon
which is more kind of science fiction
it's set on another planet
this is actually a young adults novel
set on a planet where they got a settlement
where the government's very totalitarian
and it's about a boy and his dragon
who helped overcome the...
problematic forces in charge
so the sites run by the Libertarian...
or the wards are run by the Libertarian Future Society
You know what? Let's pick up on that thread
because that's an interesting sort of junction
of what we're talking about here
resistance fiction but also speculative fiction
science fiction and I have certainly noticed
there's, you know, there is a Libertarian anarchist
bent in a lot of science fiction
and the sort of freedom spirit
has been preserved there perhaps more strongly
than any other particular genre of writing
A, if you notice that yourself and B,
why on earth might that be?
That's a good question
I'm kind of split down the line on it
because in some ways it is
in some ways it isn't like probably one of the biggest,
you know, examples of science fiction
most people know Star Trek
and that one you could go almost either way with it
sometimes it looks like a communist utopia
where it's like
though it's definitely always from a military angle
which actually kind of fits on the communist utopia angle
you know, they kind of talk about
but then they got like the Debord
which is supposed to be like the super communist
to make the regular communist utopia look kind of good
like I kind of almost wondered why
they didn't want to get assimilated
because it was kind of the direction they were all going
but then on the other hand
it's interesting
because some of the
like a really good science fiction series
I'm not sure if you've heard of the Silo series
by Hugh Howie
In fact, yes, I know the
TV adaptation of it
I haven't read the books
You've seen The Apples? I think it's Apples done a version?
Yeah, because originally that was
interestingly the origin of that was
the author was
retired
boat charter guy and he ended up just getting a kind of
a day job at a bookstore
and he was writing these short stories publishing them on Amazon
he wrote this one story called Wool
and I think it was about 10,000 words
and he started to notice it was selling like
3,000 copies a week all by itself
so then he decided well I'm going to
write a few more chapters to this
and eventually became this three-part Wool trilogy
which you know, it's very much a
top-down controlled government where
everyone's living in these silos underneath the ground
and if you read the entire story
because they control people through deception
not through force which you know
it's kind of the direction everything's going
the kind of fifth-generational warfare
which I think is partly why we see that
seem emerging in science fiction in particular
because fifth-generational warfare is a lot easier to do
with technology
it's a lot harder to do in the Middle Ages
Yeah, you could do it somewhat
with belief systems and so forth
but it's a lot more work
people are just better connected
but it's interesting because Hugh Howie
the author to that was like
totally 100% behind
the COVID mandates and I'm saying this
because you can just go to his blog
and he has long essays explaining
why it was good to force people
to take vaccines and to wear masks
which I think you know gets into
the whole issue of how much
of this fiction is resistance fiction
and then predictive programming
or is it reflective programming
You know that's such a fascinating question
because as soon as you mentioned for example
the matrix in that scene that yeah
I'm sure a lot of us can relate to
from our own rabbit hole experiences
and waking up to the matrix and jacking out
and oh my god where am I
what's really happening
is this what real life is like
is a powerful and emotionally resonant
scene because it obviously represents
an experience that a lot of people have
of waking up to reality
but again there's so many things
around the matrix not only
of course NEO's passport expiring on 9-11-2001
but many many other
things in the matrix
Yes someone
figured out if you pause at the right moment
as they're showing his passport you can
you have to zoom in you have to
have the you know blue ray addition
and like rotate the screen but it's
literally NEO's passport expires
on September 11th 2001
anyway there's beyond that
there's a lot of things that clearly
in that movie speak to
what we all went through in the process
of 9-11 and there after
falling down that rabbit hole and
waking up to the matrix but it
really does that is one of those
works that really does beg the question
of is this predictive
programming is it resistance fiction
is what is the line between the two
and I go back
for example to Orwell
and Huxley and
just knowing what I know about
Huxley and his family and
everything that he was involved in the eugenics
and all of that
I hear him talking
about the scientific dictatorship that's now
possible and the ability to make people
enjoy their own servitude and all of that
and obviously the warning that was
Brave New World
but at the same time I feel like he was
slobbering a little bit
salivating at the thought of this
scientific maybe I'm reading
into that but it seems to me that
Huxley was more on the predictive
programming side of it whereas when I
read Orwell and I read 1984
I see that
as resistance fiction
and I see that as again setting
the template for so much of
what we now understand in reality
and double think in all of these concepts
that he introduced to the vernacular
but I'm sure people
could and I have heard people
make the argument that no 1984 was
predictive programming too as well
rather than resistance fiction where
where do we draw that line how do we
draw that line how do you draw that line
in the work that you're doing
well my work specifically
it was through the characters like I'm
the characters in extension of me
in a lot of ways like they say you know everybody
you dream about in your dreams is
extension of yourself in the same way I think the characters were
and
you know I despise totalitarian
ism in any form
like even when it's to make
people be better and good
and that kind of shaky stuff
so I
but at the same time it can become
I
I honestly don't have a really good
answer for it like I was finding
it interesting when we were fighting the covid stuff
I remember one of the people in our local group
saying to me it's like how do people
love the hunger games like there's
all these people all these kids and teenagers
love the hunger games and yet they're
strapping on their mask and getting the shot
and hiding at home and I can't they see
that this and
sometimes I'm concerned too especially when
it's more in the cinema
arena versus a novel
fiction is that
you can see these characters
resisting and it kind of
fulfills it for you
so you feel like oh I
it's almost like with sports you know a lot of people
watch sports they don't feel the need to actually play
sports because they're watching people play
sports all the time so you know
you see Katniss with her
you know mighty arrows blasting
tyranny out of the sky and then you
feel like you've kind of done it I don't know
that's it because there is something
already in a way isn't that kind
of yeah clearly
people experience that perhaps more viscerally
when they're engaged in a movie in the cinema
but in a way that's the similar to what
you would take out of a book as well
and isn't that an indictment of all
fiction well and all of it is just
our trying to live through these things so that
we don't have to do it ourselves
what what is the space then for
resistance fiction to actually provoke
real world action
I feel it's
it gets inspiring it also gets
to face the fears and that's what I tried
to do in that and actually actually do it in a fun
way because I
I cover it especially in much ado about
corona it gets there's some very dark
scenes in the book and not as dark as it
could have been but there's also a lot of
friendly banter and stuff I really liked
Josh Whedon who did the firefly
series I don't they ever seen the firefly
series but it's
interesting series because it was only it
got canceled after like
six episodes it was so anti
government anti tyranny
it's set in the far future where
this tyrannical government has one
and it's about a small band of
people who are still resisting
and they they purposely tried
to get that show off the air because they put it like
one week at one time in the next week
they changed the day and the time it was on
and just kept on doing that it got canceled
and they just they didn't even show
all the episodes they threw it all the episodes
onto a dvd and said if I just put it on the internet
or on Amazon to make some money
the things sold like crazy
so much so that they got a movie
to finish the series up like a movie
that followed a canceled TV series
hasn't happened since Star Trek but
but Josh Whedon's attitude
with that he says he says make it dark
make it grim make it
real but then for the love of God tell a joke
so I
tried to get that in there but also
I think I had to face the fear of
like what's the worst thing that I could do to
these characters especially the main
character you know without killing him
and I don't know
I think if you can have people go through
all the fear and emotions that they're going to
feel when they're trying to resist
and come out the other side then
I think
you have some hope of inspiring
them
and that's the beautiful thing about
the novel over the screen is you can get inside
the characters head you can do that
with the screen
so that's always been
the biggest difference with novels over
not to put down movies
movies have their own benefits
and so forth
yeah like
the jones plantations a masterpiece
for example
but you can get inside
people's heads you can become
the character can reflect back
and forth between the reader and the character
and you have multiple characters so there's one that they're going to latch on
to more so
so yeah I think that's
I think
if you can get them through the emotional
journey that's going to happen
and inspire them to get out the other side
this is it
I mean there are characters
in books that I've read over the years that
sort of inhabit my mind in ways that
I'm sure I'm not even consciously aware of
but you know that start to form
your perception of the world
and the way that you can live and I think
at its best that is what resistance
fiction can do is at least implant
the sort of the idea
for how a hero acts in the world
not necessarily
you know killing the dragon with your sword but
at any rate how you stand up to
tyranny and can provide that template
so I'd like to put the question to you
what is some resistance fiction that has inspired
you in your
reading over the years
well I have to admit
I don't know if it's going to sound cliche or not but to kill a mockingbird
was a big influence on me
and you
you know and I think that
novel in the same right it had that same
effect where you know specifically talking
about the discrimination against
the black population
in the south but
it did it all through a story from the point of view
of a little girl I mean the amount I think
it took her like ten years to write the book so it was
it was an intense dense
extremely well written book
so that that's one of them
I mean I know there's a lot of controversy over
Harper Lee and her motives and all that kind of
stuff but
as a stand alone it was good
Amar Tows
a gentleman of Moscow I had
a quite a bit of influence on it
you know that's a story about a man
who's
after the Bolsheviks
I'm not sure exactly the dates on it but
basically when the Russians kind of went full
capitalism they took all the
people with money and they kind of locked them up
and house arrest basically locked down for
the rest of their life and it's about this one man
who's
told that he's not allowed to leave a hotel
till he dies so he's basically
put in lockdown in a hotel
and he lives there for
I can't remember 20 years
and you see him
resisting in every which way
he can he never any I don't want to ruin the ending
very good novel
one of the ones I has a lot
of impact on me was and it's comes
from a total communist
was the Shawshank redemption by Stephen
King because Stephen
King is like full I don't know if
he's full-blown communist but he's if you
ever sat there and listen away there
yeah yeah I
I mean I got a little clip just recently
with him just saying how
disgusted he was with people in Florida
during the lockdown just going out and walking
around you know it's like what kind of example
is this but the Shawshank
redemption which was a short
story originally
to me is
you know it's about a man who's been captured
by the state he's been
thrown in prison for a crime he didn't commit
and it's about how
he fights
what little he can
and he has a very long-term plan
and he just perseveres every day
with this very small effort
that he can make and I don't want to
ruin it for anyone who hasn't read the
book or seen the movie both of which I think were excellent
so
so that feeling
at the end of that movie when you know you
figure out what he was really doing
and that
that's what I you know it's a story
can capture that feeling because I when I read
Brave New Normal
I did not feel uplifted by the end of that book
I did not feel hopeful
I found
it kind of weird it was almost kind of like a really
like twisted version of the Jetsons
you mean Brave New World
or Brave New
sorry did I say normal yes
sorry I meant Brave New World
yeah sorry yeah Brave New World
my next book is actually called Brave New Normal
ah
yeah sorry Brave New World
the whole thing is just
it's a disturbing story I found
and I didn't feel
like you know it's kind of like this is
it's like watching instead of watching Star Trek
just watching the Borg show
yes
no you know what
it reminds me of
I'm sorry
I should have pulled this off my bookshelf before we talked
but
it's
B.F. Skinner's
Walden 2
which I did on my film literature
and New World Order series several years ago
if you haven't read that it's again
such a creepy creepy book
but clearly to me that is
an attempt at predictive programming
not resistance fiction but people can
hear my film literature in the New World Order podcast
for more about that
but yeah same sort of creepy feeling about
the Jetsons future that they want
us to be excited about
I think but my god
does it not sound exciting but
you know what
is this about Thorough?
no
it's about B.F. Skinner wanting to
puppeteer people like their
pigeons in his Skinner box essentially
please do read it if you
are interested it is
it's creepy and disturbing and exactly what
Skinner would probably write about anyway
I should say just the last one
the author which I think
deserves good mention was Ayn Rand
ah alright interesting
yes I you know the funniest
thing is and I hesitate
to tell this story but back
in university I did have a friend
who who highly recommended
Ayn Rand and so I did
read the fountain head and I
was so unimpressed
with her as a fiction writer
that I couldn't get excited about the
philosophy I then
you're gonna write philosophy just write philosophy
that's fine I can read that but this fiction
was not I didn't I did not like
it I did not think those were fully fleshed
out characters I thought they were
tropes and ideas and
you know two dimensional cutouts
one of the problems of Ayn Rand
philosophy about fiction like I actually
have her it's not here I
got a whole book on her oh yeah here it is
Ayn Rand like you
know she she had a very um she had
a philosophy about everything in life but
she she had this theory that she had
to make these characters like her main
characters these perfect human beings
she did want very black and white
characters and that I think was a bit of
a flaw
but but I appreciate that a lot
of people have garnered something
from those stories and hey who am I to get
in the way of that but you know what John
you have inspired me today because
obviously I
I mean I am a reader I've always
been interested in reading and fiction
but as people know I did do the
film literature and new world order podcast series
for many years until I found that
I just wasn't comfortable
with the way that it was being received or
not received by the audience and
I questioned whether
and how to do a book club
in podcast
form with people listening in who
99% of them haven't read the book and never
will what what is the point of this
what are we doing so I have
I have put that podcast on hiatus
for many years now but
you are inspiring me to give it another
try and to see if the audience
will be along for the ride if there is
actual worthwhile engagement to be had
from such a series so I would like to
invite you John Manley would
you be interested in being
the first guest on the
revivified film literature new world order podcast
I'd be honored
well then we will have to set a date for that
and think about
what book resistance
fiction predictive programming or other type
of book we would like to talk about and
we'll talk about that off air but anyway
thank you very much for your time for all
of this writing this efforts
that you've gone to I know
it is probably more of a compulsion than
something that you're doing out of just the
the the niceness of your heart
because that is the only reason people actually
do put the pen to paper
usually but I appreciate it nonetheless
and obviously
this is going to touch a lot of people
yeah I remember when
we were all kind of worrying whether we're all going to end up in
COVID concentration camps or you know just
be shot or in lethal injection or all
that kind of thing the main thing
keeping me up at night was I haven't published a book yet
I haven't finished the novel so I kind
of just combined the two well I can fight this
and you know let's give it a try
it works well tell us about Blazing
Pinecone Publishing what
is Blazing Pinecone
well Blazing
Pinecone was supposed to be
kind of a metaphor there's a theory
that the pineal gland in the brain
helps produce a lot of creative
ideas and so forth so that's
in the pineal gland in the brain looks
like a pinecone so
I kind of find when I get
my best idea it kind of feels like that part
of the brain so obviously it's a nice metaphor
and I didn't want to be one of those authors
to just use their name you know just John Manley
so I wanted something like that
so I
realized especially with much to do about corona
there's just no point trying to get this published by a
mainstream publisher because that was
not going to happen
so I did
went in the publishing
which I don't regret
at all
and so BlazingPinecone.com
if people want to go there I have
the first 27
chapters of all the humans are sleeping
available like e-book and audio book format
so you can just go and listen to like
one third of the book and I say well
if you don't want to continue then it's not your book
and then I'm doing
the same with much to do about corona
so
and that that site originally was called
much to do about corona.com you may remember
at the time because I remember you gave me a mention
in one of the Dino Awards
because I originally I was a site was just
focused on every day I was
putting out a new article whilst I was writing this
novel trying to
stop the COVID oppression
and
eventually once the novel came out I decided
I'm going to go from the different
I appreciate it reading in your
in your book James because you started
off as a novel would be novelist
and you turned journalist and
I sort of started off as a journalist and I
went novelist so
now the world's all balanced and everything
now we have to go back the other way
okay
I'll start the manly
report yes
and I'll start blazing
your other place yeah can you write this
equal
well I
if I do I'm going to be doing
of all the humans are sleeping
now wherever it is all the
humans are sleeping I'm going to be doing a
second edition of that slightly because
one of the criticisms I got over and over
again was people were upset that Brent wasn't
in the story enough so
I did feel I kind of jipped it there
now so maybe instead
when if I do the second edition
when Pete's Peter says you know he's
read about the doomsday vault on the
National Geographic website I'll just
change it to the corporate report
I
I appreciate it you know
the corporate reporting every book
well we should mention
fans of the corporate report will be
happy to see if you when they read much
about Corona there is a I think an amusing
scene in there with the characters
referencing the corporate report and
the QAnon phenomenon
I appreciate it being contrasted
to the QAnon people
not like those people
yeah yeah
excellent well John thank you again
for your time for your work for doing
what you do keep at it we're all rooting
for you for whichever sequel comes out
first I'm assuming all the humans
are sleeping well actually as a
prequel to much to do about Corona is coming out
next it's almost done is called COVID
disobedience and I think
in particular you might find that
it's set three months before
what happened in much to do about Corona
it's set well it's set in two periods
it's set in 2020
right at the beginning of the lockdown and it's set in
1846 July 23rd
I'm not sure if that date brings
the bell July 23rd that's
the day Henry David Thoreau got thrown in prison
for not paying the poll tax
and I'm what has emerged with
originally it was just a short story
again of
with Stephanie because I wanted to do I had this
story in my mind for quite a while
because it happened in Toronto well
Brampton near Toronto where
they were actually locking
kids in their room for like three four
weeks at a time like
because they had a positive PCR test
no access with the rest of the family
so I wanted to do a story about
that so I have a story with Stephanie
and that and that oddly enough
Henry David Thoreau came into the
story at one point and so
now what I have is two stories parallel
chat one chapter set in 1846
telling the story of
Henry David Thoreau being arrested for not paying
the poll taxes and incarceration and
eventually being let out whilst every
other chapter is telling the story with Stephanie
trying to help this girl in lockdown
and then the two stories
come together so that's
going to be out soon
I can't wait looking
forward to it and how do people
follow you again BlazingPineCone.com
Yeah go to BlazingPineCone.com
they can
enter their name and email address
well just their email address I don't want their name
I don't mind but
I just thought it would save time
I have a newsletter
that goes out three times a week and
they get free copies of
the previews for the audio book and
the print book and
lots of other fun stuff
BlazingPineCone.com
Excellent
John Manley let's leave it there thank you again for your time
Thank you very much
Okay
I hope you guys were as captivated
and interested in that conversation as
I was I think it's
an incredibly interesting idea
to think about resistance fiction
where does it what is it how does it
function where does the line between resistance
fiction and predictive programming lie
how can we more effectively
use narrative
to help get people
to understand our point of view
and who are the people out there who are doing it
all valuable and important questions to
be exploring so I'm glad there are people like John Manley
out there who are exploring them of course
you can find out more about him
at the BlazingPineCone website link
in the show notes as always
and there of course you can find links to his works
and start exploring that but I think
the question of resistance
fiction and how it works and
how it can be done more effectively
and who is effectively doing it is an important one
and obviously along
those lines yes
here you've heard it here first
Film Literature New World Order
revived shall we give it another go guys
let's try
and I'll see what the feedback is like
on this series and whether it is worth continuing
it but I think I'm going to
try doing this
crazy internet book club
with the general audience that
generally has not read the book and see how that
works and see if there is anything good that can come
of it but I'm excited at any
rate because I always
am excited to read good
fiction and to explore these ideas
so I hope people out there
are similarly interested and exploring
and also helping to
support those writers who are out there attempting
to put this in narrative form
of course you will know that I am such a writer
although my book is
not fiction obviously
I have the non-fiction
reportage essays on the
New World Order which as you know by now
20 essays
collected from 15 years of
writing and those essays
are now available in hard
cover and paperback
and there is an audio book download
there is an e-book download all of those
formats all of those versions
are available of course at
reportagebook.com
and or wherever fine books
are sold and
as you may have seen
with my recent announcement also
reportage is now available only
for Corbett Report members only for paid
subscribers to the Corbett Report
you have the opportunity to get a
special collectible audio
book data CD
of the reportage audio book
so it's the it's the whole audio book
all 8 plus hours on a single
CD but of course it's not a regular
CD it's a data CD so it can be
read in a CD ROM or may
perhaps by certain mp3
CD compatible CD
players if you happen to have such a thing
otherwise it just makes a good collectible
and helps support this work
so if you are interested in that
the link to that will be in the show notes
remember you will have to be a member
of the website logged in
in order to purchase that special
collectible data CD
anyway other than
that I hope you are
all as excited about the
revived film literature in New
World Order as I am I'm trepidatious
about as well but we'll see how it goes
but I think narrative
is incredibly important
more important than we tend to give it credit
for in our haughty geopolitical
discussions we don't tend to think
about the ways that people's narratives
are shaping their world views and what
they see and don't see and the way
that they act in the world so let's
see if we can explore this
idea in greater detail as always
I'm interested to hear your comments
so corporate report members please log in
leave your comments on corporatereport.com
in the post below
but in the meantime and finally here today
I'm going to leave the last words to William Faulkner
I know I've played them here on the podcast
before but I think they are
as apt now as they ever were
and I think we all need
to hear and reflect on them at this
particular juncture in world history
so these
this is the recording of William Faulkner reading
his acceptance speech for the Nobel Prize
in Literature
we'll leave it there for today James Corbett
corporatereport.com thank you for joining me for today's exploration
I'm looking forward to talking to you again
in the near future
it is only mine in trust
it will not be difficult
to find a dedication for the money part
I would commensurate with the purpose and significance
of its origin
but I would like to do the same with the acclaim
too by using this moment as a
pinnacle from which I might be listened to
by the young men and women already
dedicated to the same anguish and
travail among whom is already
that one who will someday stand here
where I am standing
our tragedy today is a general
and universal physical fear
so long sustained by now that we can
even bear it
there are no longer problems of the spirit
there is only the question when will I be blown up
because of this the young man
a woman writing today has forgotten
the problems of the human heart
in conflict with itself
which alone can I make good writing
because only that is worth writing about
worth the agony and the sweat
he must learn them again
he must teach himself that the basis
of all things is to be afraid
and teaching himself that
forget it forever leaving no room
in his workshop for anything but the old
verities and truths of the heart
the old universal truth
lacking which any story is ephemeral
and doomed love and honor
and pity and pride and compassion
and sacrifice
until he does so he labors
under our curse he writes
not of love but of lust of deceits
in which nobody loses anything of value
of victories without hope
and most of all without pity or compassion
his griefs grieve on
no universal bones leaving no scars
he writes not of the heart
but of the glands
until he relearns these things
he will write as though he stood among
and watched the end of man
I decline to accept the end of man
it is easy enough to say that man is immortal
simply because he will endure
that when the last ding dong of doom
has clanged and faded from the last
worthless rock hanging tideless
in the last red and dying evening
that even then there will still be
one more sound that of his puny
inexhaustible voice still talking
I refuse to accept this
I believe that man will not merely endure
he will prevail he is immortal
not because he alone among creatures
has an inexhaustible voice
but because he has a soul
a spirit capable of compassion
and sacrifice and endurance
the poet's the writer's duty
is to write about these things
it is his privilege to help man endure
by lifting his heart by reminding
him of the courage and honor and hope
and pride and compassion and pity
and sacrifice which have been the glory
of his past the poet's voice
need not merely be the record of man
it can be one of the props
the pillars to help him endure
and prevail
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