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Enjoy welcome to the deling pod Riley Wagamon
aka Edward Slav squat is it Slav squat it is
Slav squat up Tommy. What? Oh, why did you choose the name the pseudonym Edward Slav squat?
It was a joke that I came up with with my friend the late great journalist Marco Mariano
Which one fortunately passed away in August, but
It was it was sort of a play on the whole Edward Snowden thing because we were both
Very confused by the whole Edward Snowden narrative like where did this guy come from where did he go?
He just like vanished into Russia somewhere and Slav squat is sort of an internet meme
I don't know if you're familiar with like the gopnik meme of Eastern Europe
But it's the guys in the adidas track suits who are chain smoking and drinking the beer and they're squatting like the physical
You know when they're sitting there smoking. They're very nice people by the way. They're real
So so I took on this moniker Edward Slav squat and that's when I started actually writing
For Marco's website anti-empire about the COVID situation in Russia. That's the name
I use because at the time I was actually working for
RT so I decided to not use my real name for a while
Okay, and you you look like like an orthodox monk and you're not but you've definitely got the beard
Yeah, yeah, I I don't know
I guess I've become very lazy and also on account of my balding. I'm very self-conscious
I'm just trying to get as much hair as I can on my face. We have a bald off
I yeah, I've got I've got the ponytail, which is just I mean it's
It's shameful, but I can't I can't let go even though it's falling out every day
You know, you know the the orthodox monks they sort of pride themselves on the more sort of matted and manky
They look because they don't want to be thought to be vain, right?
So so they have to look kind of right credit. I don't like you know, try to make it pretty
I just let it grow, you know, and so you were you were in Russia. You're living in Russia for quite a while
Yes, I was there for actually a little at this point
By the time I left in August of last year is it was more than 10 years a little more than 10 years and
So you're American. Yes, and you obviously speak Russian
Yeah, I mean my Russian should be better than it is, but I can I can get by absolutely, right?
And when when did you when did you learn it did you learn it for me?
Or did you learn it sort of on the job?
I learned it on the job when I came I first came to Russia
You know a lot of people I think come to Russia for I don't know like
Like religious reasons or they have sort of you know a bone to pick with their own horrible government and they see Russia
Right, I sort of ended up in Russia by accident, you know, like I was just sort of a wandering
20-something American who was trying to make it just just being basically a freeloader teaching English
You know and I was in Czechia and I said I got to do something more interesting with my life
And I found a job in Bashkortostan, which is a Republic within the Russian Federation
And so I arrived in Russia. I didn't I was just sort of I had I was totally neutral, you know
I didn't really I didn't really care that much about
You know, I didn't come to Russia for specific reasons
I just was there because I sounded interesting and so I had no background in anything Russia related didn't speak a lick of Russian
I mean to be fair there are similarities between Czech and Russian and I knew a little bit of Czech
But yeah, so I just learned it all on the job basically, right? Yeah, I should I should put my
You have a rough idea of where I'm coming from because you've you've read some of my stuff. I I'd never been to
Russia until
Recently when I went on this this trip. Yeah paid for by the by the Moscow
Patriarchate and and that the trip was was was for Christians
So there was a there was some Catholics on the trip. There was a
I don't know was some sort of
Protestant guy and and and then there was me and we were
looked after by a
Friend of yours and
it was it was
Well, it was great. I mean I I wouldn't have gone to Russia
Unless this this trip had happened cuz I go it's hot. It's a hard sell to your wife when you just say I've decided darling
I'm gonna get a Russia
Why but if if you've been invited you suddenly got your seat like that look what what can I do?
I have to go and I
Had a great time there. I mean I I was really taken by things like the
The the the covered the covered markets that I think are all over all over the Russian cities
We're with just the most amazing
Produce I had no idea that the Russia had access to all this, you know raw milk and well, I mean they've got everything
Haven't they they've got got got
Because they've got so many different access to just to seas they've got things like camchatka crabs and they've got
fish from the north and they've got all their all their river fish and and and they've got so much land and
Also, I do I have to say love the orthodox church. I I just I went into some of those churches
at
What was it called?
No, they don't call it master. They what what do they call it?
the
divine liturgy and
The singing was amazing and the babushkas with their all the women with their with their and
Also, I'm really into my Russian literature, which I'm fortunate. I've only read in translation, but I like my Tolstoy
I like my Dostoevsky. I just think the Russian
Novelists are the best in the world, but
You're going to provide a corrective because I've had some massive
Russa files on on the podcast
and
I've had some sort of anti
Russa files as well. I'm sorry. Sorry. It's not anti Russa files. I'm Russa Phobes
So you can sort of you can sort of put me right on on where I've got it wrong
I mean am I am I wrong to love Russia?
Absolutely not. I mean I I have many I mean
Don't think that you could stay in Russia if you absolutely hated it, right?
I mean, I basically agree with everything you just said. I mean, it's a first of all
I would encourage anyone who has the means whether it's through invitation
I mean, obviously, it's a lot easier to get there when a lot of the bureaucracy is sort of taking care
You know, right? Like like really even when they want you to come
Yeah, even when they want you to come it can be a huge headache
So I totally get that and I think that if I you know, if anyone has that opportunity
They should take it for any it doesn't matter, you know
What the actual motive is of who's inviting you or whatever just go and see the country for yourself because?
Yeah, I think that you'll be surprised and you it's a it's a wonderful
Experience, you know like do it?
Yeah, no, I mean look, it's it's an incredible
Misunderstood beautiful, but also, you know
Very sad, I would say also like Russia's got everything. It's like a it's like a Tolstoy novel. It really is
Yeah, yeah, so I think it is funny that isn't it? It is it is
I mean, I guess did a very good job of explaining his country
Anna when I read Anna Karenina
Mm-hmm. I realized that I was never going to read a novel better than this
I think Anna Karenina is the best novels have been been been written
And I totally identified with Lieven and his wanting to wanting to kind of live on the land and
the wonderful scenes where they go duck shooting and and the scenes with the with the peasants and
This was sort of born out when I when I I like the Russians
I mean, okay, it's a terrible general generalization, but they're they're serious. They're deep
They're cultured and these are these are valuable things
You look you look at the West and you see I mean in a way, it's not the West fault
It's the people who run the West the the the predator class or whatever you want to call them the people who are
deliberately running down everything and destroying people's culture destroying people's
community I use the word community, but
the the elites are at war with us and
You sort of when you get a Russia you feel that well
One of the things I I quite liked is because they've lived so long under
communism
They're very suspicious of the state aren't they they don't
In England people still bizarrely
Imagine that they live in a democracy and and that by voting they can change stuff
Whereas Russians
I want to know I know it no illusions on that score
Yeah, I would have I would I mean, of course, it's a generalization, but I basically completely agree
I think that if you took your average Russian and probably compared them
I've never been to the UK, but if you took your average Brit and your average Russian
I'm sure that the Russian will be more jaded more suspicious of authority
Like less, you know, they they would understand their place in the pecking order as opposed to the Brit
Who would have these grand illusions of all my vote counts like I I have power, you know, yeah
We're free. We live in a Western democracy and
That I think there's this legacy attitude where well a we've been encouraged
relentlessly to think of the
Russians as a as a threat as a war threat
We've been we I said by we I mean the sort of I suppose the British Empire
have been
Shafting the Russians since what there's since the beginning of the great game at least and probably probably earlier
I mean, but I don't know what what what we were doing in the time of of say
Catherine the Great, but it seems to me that for a long time
Britain has seen
Russia as a
Geopolitical threat which must be destroyed which is pretty much what happened when
the Milner group
Arranged the First World War with with with two purposes one to destroy Germany and there's a sort of secondary
Mission to destroy Russia and they funded the Russian revel that the Bolshevik Revolution, which was which was not really
Carried out mainly by by Russians was it was a particular faction the Bolsheviks. I suppose were mainly mainly Jews
There was a sort of
Horrible sort of occultic things going on with that with that with the murder of the czar and so on and
We're told that the Russians are baddies and the threats
So I kind of feel for them as well as the sort of the underdog that we helped turn into an underdog
Is that is that a fair assessment?
Well, I mean, I guess I mean I would agree
Broadly the I guess maybe where I see things a little bit differently is, you know, I do I do feel
Horrible for the Russian people. They're leadership and elite. I really can't I mean again
This is we can nitpick, but if we're talking broadly
They're really not that different from the Western elite. Yes, you know, and so
People I mean we can get into it and I'm I'm totally open to having the conversation about the differences
Where you know and I understand the perspective of well, let's be pragmatic about this
But really at the end of the day, I think that what we're witnessing is, you know, basically there's the it's like two
Gangs you have like the you know the George bugs Moran's north side gang versus Al Capone Chicago outfit and
People are being told that they should be rooting for one side or the other
There maybe they're not all in it together
But they're playing the same game and they're all thugs, you know and at the end of the day
This is a system that
Unapologetically destroys human life in the pursuit of money and power and so I think that a lot
Unfortunately a lot of the narratives that we see that are very prevalent
Both in the mainstream media and the so-called alternative media, it's basically just talking points for the peasantry
So that they feel better about basically, you know being taking advantage of this
international thuggery
You haven't told me anything
So far that I would I would quibble with because I've I've written about this. I said look, okay
just because
Putin
Probably did have a pretty good Cassus Belly in in in Ukraine
Yeah, and just because the Ukrainian regime are
Nazi puppets of the Western deep state
Doesn't mean that Putin is a goodie and and he's our guy fighting for freedom and
Fighting fighting the new world order. So yeah, it doesn't surprise me
But you can give me lots more lots more
Detail on this you you were you were very good for example
fighting this notion that a lot of I think
Awake people had in the West that somehow
Russia
Responded differently to to COVID and and that they somehow the Sputnik vaccine was was
Was was not as not as toxic as as the Moderna one and they
All the different the Pfizer one. Yeah, an AstraZeneca. I mean they were just as bad, weren't they?
Yeah, and well, I mean, I don't even I don't think we should even get too deep into it because it's just at this point
I just consider it if you don't understand the basics at this point. I don't know what I can do for you
But just very briefly, you know a Sputnik V was developed in cooperation with AstraZeneca
So this whole time this whole meme of Sputnik V being like the anti big pharma vax
It's so comically wrong like you can go to the Kremlin's website and read the transcript of a meeting between
Vladimir Putin the CEO of AstraZeneca
Alexander Ginsberg this total creep oh weirdo who allegedly claims who have developed Sputnik V and
Trial Dimitri of who by the way is a you know a WEF young global leader
Stanford Harvard grad who worked for Goldman Sachs and McKinsey and company the CEO of Russia's sovereign wealth fund who is now
The head negotiator for the Ukraine talks, you know meeting with these super turbo patriots like Wittkopf and Kushner
You know about deciding the fate of Ukraine. Anyway, these guys all meet together in you know, December
2020 talking about how they should start to enjoin studies together between Sputnik V and AstraZeneca because they're basically identical
You know, that's that's that's almost of verbatim quote from Alexander Ginsberg. They're so similar
Why don't we start doing joint tests where you do one shot of Sputnik V and one shot of AstraZeneca?
That'll be extra safe and effective. You know, it's so it's like it's so and the end
I mean again, I don't even I don't even think it's necessary to get too deep into it
But the vaccine thing is such a good example of how
People are we're being played off each other because you know in Russia you had
Like these liberals who didn't trust, you know, you had people who didn't trust the Sputnik V Vax
So they wanted to get the Pfizer Vax
They would go to the West to get shot up with Moderna and then you had Westerners who were like, I don't trust Pfizer Moderna
I want to get Sputnik V and it's all the same
Genetic group that hasn't been tested and no one knows what the hell it is. Yeah, it's just like come on
Like it's just ridiculous and I mean, I suppose we're we're seeking the point of difference between the Laos and the Flea here
But I I do know that that there was this
weird trajectory of the of the AstraZeneca
so-called vaccine where by
There was an occasion at Wimbledon, I don't know whether you saw it where where the woman who'd been in charge of the of the
The AstraZeneca vaccine was given a standing ovation
Oh God, and I think she was made it made a dame and something and then
About what a year later 18 months later
AstraZeneca was was suddenly toxic and everyone was saying that they thought it did more damage
That even than the Pfizer or the Moderna jabs. So if if the Sputnik V was based on the
on the AstraZeneca
That tells you all you need to know and how um, how
Rigorous were they in Russia in enforcing this? How easy was it to not be jabbed?
Well, so again, this is another misconception. Let's put it. Let's be charitable and use that word
That many westerners have Russia absolutely had compulsory vaccination degrees that basically covered
Blanketed the entire country and it was enforced in different ways
So for example, it would be a situation where business
Businesses were required to get like 60% of their employees vaccinated or if you were a university student
You need to get vaccinated, you know by autumn of 2021. They basically almost every single region of Russia
had some form of
QR code coded health pass which is basically de facto
compulsory vaccination because in order to you know, you have this
You know this digital health pass that shows you've been vaccinated or yet to get
PCR tested every 72 hours in order to enter a restaurant now. The truth is that
In certain parts of Russia, but by far there were some very very it dependent on where you were basically
Some regions and areas and cities enforced very strictly others were very lax about it
Or the authority sort of looked the other way because they realized how damaging this was to the economy and like civilization itself
And then also there was a very lively like black market in Russia for fake vaccine certificates fake PCR tests
Yeah, you could just go onto telegram and find like you could just like order a fake PCR test for example, you know
But like that's you know what to me that's not to me that shows like that's
Thumbs up to the Russian people. It's not that does not reflect well on the Russian government
The Russian government itself wanted this to happen, you know another thing I have to say and again
There's this misconception that at least I've seen this idea put forward that all of these
Policies were done at the regional level and Putin was secretly fighting it and he didn't want this to happen by
December of 2021 the state Duma, so we're talking about the National Legislature
Parliament
Wanted to create a nationwide
Health pass so instead of having these regional health passes you had one unified Russian health pass which was publicly endorsed by Putin
He said, you know, I know a lot of people think that I should oppose this
But it's my responsibility as president to keep everyone safe. Yeah, we need this we need this national health pass
Which is de facto compulsory vaccination
Required to do anything like to go to a shop to go to a hospital anything, you know go to school
So what were the the regions that emerged with with credit here? What were where?
Where was the resistance?
Well, I would say that it was more like
Probably like in far-flung areas of Siberia, right where it just didn't even make any sense
Possibly I mean I to be honest, but I
Remember very well, for example, they were they were sort of like flashes of resistance
So for example in st. Petersburg, I forget the gentleman's name, but he was a business owner who owned
Hookah lounges like he had us chain of hookah lounges in st. Petersburg and he said I'm not doing this
I'm not I'm not doing the QR code thing
I'm not gonna ask for QR codes at my hookah place and he was arrested
He was he was charged with bribery with some made-up bribery scheme. He was arrested. I don't even know what happened to him
But yeah, the FSB nabbed him there were also, you know in Moscow
Again, and this is to the credit of the Russian people
Moscow is the first
city to adopt some form of QR code at health pass in the summer of
2021 and basically Russians's boycotted it and so
Subyanin who's the mayor of Moscow had to drop the QR code thing after about like two and a half weeks because
Restaurants were closing like and like the economy was collapsing, you know, so
Yeah, I mean like I in that sense
It was a privilege to live in Russia because a lot of Russians just didn't trust they knew they knew that it was
This was nonsense, you know, and so that was great
But I didn't I didn't feel safe. It wasn't the Russian government that made me. No, no, it was
Yeah, yes, but but don't knock it
I mean that is that what you're describing there is a wonderful thing and I did it's it's great
And I think to be fair on the awake people who are pro-Russia
I think most of them see that they see that distinction. They're not cheering on
Well, actually some of them are well some of them are cheering
Yeah, I mean, I'm sorry to say but some of them are just lying
Some of them are claiming that the Russian government like saw through it all and we're just playing along and nothing bad happened
Five five D chess that exactly it's just it's just not true
And you if you want the evidence for that all you have to do is look at the actual human toll of COVID during in Russia
In 2021 Russia saw the largest natural population decline since the end of World War two
It was more than a million people and so you factor in just normal deaths
Plus probably what was can be attributed to public health policies that actually just murdered people
We're talking about several hundred thousand people were killed within a year
Because yeah that by the vaccine
Well, we don't know we don't know because also Russia
I mean if you think that transparency was bad in the West Russia didn't even pretend to have any publicly available
Information about post-vaccination complications. My theory though is that okay? It could be from vaccination complications
But also just like in the West Russia completely
Reformat its entire healthcare system to fight COVID so people with cancer were just like thrown to the streets
Everyone had COVID you would get the you know, they have these things called
Like like the red the red wards where you would you were said that you just take like old people with Alzheimer's or you know
Dementia who had no one to take care of they would grab them give them a PCR test say that they had COVID throw them
Into this ward where no one was allowed to visit them. They were pumped full of
Disgusting medications and just left to die, you know possibly Medaza lamb. Do you think that Russia bought some of that?
It was um, I
Forget that it was it was one of those horrible drugs that they claim was fighting COVID
Which Russia was also using
Anyway, it's like it it's the same. It was the same playbook, you know
It was absolutely the same playbook that we saw everywhere else in the world
Yes. Yes. Do you?
do you
How much autonomy does
Does Putin have because of course in the mainstream media in the West?
Everything is Putin that Putin this
He is puttler. He is he is
And I've spoken to other people. Well, you must know Yuri Roscoe. Oh, yeah
Yeah, and Yuri told me a while back when I went to Moldova. He said
Putin is just the creature of
Hubbard of of the oligarchs of of Israel of he's not he's not this he has no autonomy
Is that true?
Well, yeah, I love the way that Roscoe talks about Putin like I've I've interviewed him
I do written interviews and I've I've I've begged him to answer some of my questions a few times now
And the way that Roscoe explains Putin, he says, you know, Putin is not the puttler that we hear about in the West
He's not this bloodthirsty monster. He's also not the turbo patriot that you read about in so-called
Alternative media. He's actually just this very mediocre
Careerist Paul. He's just like Macron, but he's Russian Macron, you know
And and the and the cultural differences are real, but that's because it's Russia
You know, you can't like you can't have fried parades in downtown Moscow because it's Russia, but but you know, it's like
Yeah, like like Putin serves
Certain moneyed interests
He and the thing that Roscoe also points out, which is absolutely correct is that Putin is guided by a merchant mentality
Which is true basically every world leader
Yeah, he serves moneyed interests. He
His entire agenda. I mean the top priority is
Making money for the rich people and helping preserve that money and power, you know by extension
And we see that very very clearly by the way in what has occurred
During the so-called special military operation, even how it's being negotiated the so, you know
Though hopefully negotiated end of this ridiculous conflict is so
Economic focused for a very good reason because at the end of the day, this is just this is just business
Yeah, and so and so Putin in that sense, you know, he of course also
There's a huge amount of time money and energy put towards basically presenting Putin as a certain, you know
You know in a certain way to
Patrons but that that's just all for public consumption, you know, like you got it. You got to make everything
Digestible, so yeah, you know, that's that's what it is
And in that sense, he's no different from any other politician and I really mean this
I don't consider him to be worse than than anyone else, but certainly not better, you know, so yeah
Yeah, now you took issue when I said look
One of the great things about about Russia is at least you haven't got to put up with with net zero now
I mean you haven't been to the UK, but I can tell you we have we now have
The highest
Energy costs in in Europe. We have this insane
Apparachik, I think he's a I think he's an asset rather than a handler
I don't he there's something sort of so
Dissingenuous about him that I don't think he's I don't think he's cunning. I just think he's being used
a guy called
Ed Miliband who's in charge of our energy policy and he wants to
Fill the North Sea with with wind windmills and carpet the land with windmills and force everyone to have solar panels on
their their roofs and and
Everything is getting a lot more expensive
So from from that perspective
Russia looks pretty get great because because it's it's an energy where you've got
You've got no shortage of gas and oil
And surely you're not going to tell me that it that it costs more to heat your home in in Russia
Or to order or to drive your car in Russia than it does in the UK
Well, I don't know what the prices are in the UK right now
But actually petrol prices in Russia have been skyrocketing. They might still be cheaper than in the UK
I I couldn't tell you but you know, I guess that if we're talking about sort of energy independence
Yeah, paper obviously Russia is I mean Russia has everything
Russia could could in theory could theoretically just shut its borders and just live on what it has
Naturally for for time immemorial the problem of course is that Russia?
Doesn't hasn't actually developed a lot of these resources to be used domestically. It's uh, it just exports them all, you know
It's the world's
You know conveyor belt for natural resources and the entire economic policy that has developed
Under Putin is the this idea that we export our raw materials to the West
They they make the stuff and then they send it back to Russia and we buy it
You even have this stuff even with lumber even with lumber you can find incredible quotes from Putin himself saying
He's he's talking about how he's surprised that
Russia is importing, you know, like wooden
Boards from China, you know, and this wood is coming from Russia, right? It's exported to China
China, you know turns it into boards and sends it back to Russia. It's like, what are we doing? Like this is madness. Yes
Yeah
um
so
the life of a kind of say you're a sort of
Say you want a kind of middle-class life
with
Not too much
nonsense from the government
How how far is that possible to achieve in Russia? Or are you constantly aware of of the dead hand of the state?
ruining everything
I
Would say that it's a again
It's a difficult question to answer because it will depend on lot on what sort of industry you're in
I mean, for example, if you own a business you absolutely are gonna be dealing with all sorts of
bureaucratic
Nonsense, I mean I've heard this even from Russians who are very patriotic and proud of their country
They a hundred percent the first thing they'll tell you is how difficult it is
To be an entrepreneur in Russia just because the country is so based on like nepotism
And like you have to go through so many hoops just to do the simplest thing and at the end of the day
It's just like who you know, which of course again, it's really not that different
From basically anywhere in the world, but it's doubly bad in Russia. I would say
For example, though you talk about like in the United States now that I'm back in my wonderful
Homeland, you know, like you have a solid middle class of basically, you know, like lawyers and doctors, right who can
Overcharge you for everything and live very comfortably
Do the opposite of everything they're supposed to do for you and then take your money in Russia like a
Salaries for doctors are almost non-existent. Like there's a huge problem with creating
like a functioning
class of
Medical professionals and all sorts of other people just because salaries are so incredibly low
Like the the people who are making money are working, you know in oil fields, basically they do these rotations
You know where they fly out to somewhere in Siberia and work for 30 days non-stop
And then it's like it's a rotation thing, you know, and that's where that's where a lot of people make their money
But um, yeah, like it's hard. I mean I again
I think it's I don't want to over generalize it without having like all the data in front of me, but
Yeah, like I think that the middle class in Russia probably suffers at least as much as the middle class everywhere else
I mean, everyone is living hand-to-mouth basically as far as I can tell like in the United States and Russia
I'm assuming in the UK
Life is expensive, you know, like inflation never ends all of our currencies are
Totally debased and becoming increasingly more useless salaries don't rise with the cost of everyday staple necessities
Yeah, it sucks
Yeah, well, I suppose this is all the New World Order, isn't it? I mean, it's not like
When when they whoever they are planning their New World Order, they're not gonna go well, we're gonna have one
We're gonna have the Western world
Which is gonna be one thing and we're gonna let the Russians and the Chinese do what they want
They're all in on it. Aren't they just to the highest levels?
Yeah, you know again, I don't like I
Agree again, I agree, but again, I think like I
Guess that what I'm trying to figure out is you know
I criticism that I receive is like oh this guy just says like they're all in together
And it's just like so vague and what does he know blah blah blah?
You know on a certain level actually I think that's a totally valid criticism
I don't think that we should rely too much on these generalizations
But again, I would go back to my like mafia
You know a metaphor like maybe they're not they're not they're in they're all in on together in the sense
They're all playing the same game, you know, like they're all they're all playing by the same rules and in that sense
like you don't like for example, you you have a
Feud between two, you know drug cartels fighting over territory
It's against the rules to go snitching to the cops, right?
Like sometimes it happens, but you're not supposed to do that and if you do you get killed, right?
Yeah, and so they're all they're all playing the same game
And so when you're told to support one side or the other you have to realize that you're just supporting one side of the
Same game and you know just like you know to continue with the analogy
You know like Al Capone would hire newspaper men to to play up how he gave, you know
A carton of milk to some orphanage or you know, like make like oh, he was such a nice guy
Like he was he really cared about the community and you know at the end of the day is to cut throat businessmen, you know
Yeah, it's like it's like JD Rockefeller handing out
Dying. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Like here you go. Here's your little tenny
All everyone
Posterity remembers
Everyone's got a personal memory of the day that kindly mr. Burns
Gave them a gave them a dime
Exactly, exactly, you know and so you just have to try to realize that
The way that we like perceive world events and world leaders
I guess specifically like so much of it is just marketing and you just have to take a step back and realize like
So many of these narratives are just for
Like peasant consumption and at the higher level there are things going on
I mean the SMO is such a good example of this because the narratives are so
Emotionally charged and so like ideologically driven, but then at the same time you have Russia until the start of
2025 paying Ukraine to transit its gas across the territory of Ukraine to sell to the EU
Which is then giving Ukraine weapons to kill Russians like it doesn't make any sense
Like it's so absurd and obscene
So you have like this idea like oh Nazi Ukraine. We got a kill Zelensky the horrible Nazi thug they okay great
But why are you paying him?
Why are you filling his coffers with with rubles or whatever to transit gas across the territory of Ukraine as
Ukrainians and Russians are vaporizing each other
Yes
Yes, I I've heard that I think it was from from from Yuri
then that
The deal has been struck whereby
Putin is not allowed to take out Zelensky Zelensky is completely
Bulletproof he told that was that's from an interview. I think it's with the former prime minister of Israel
Bennett from remembering correctly and he said in an interview. I think with the Guardian that
Putin reassured him that he would never that he wouldn't touch Zelensky
Global warming is a massive calm. There was no evidence whatsoever
That man-made climate change is a problem that is going to kill us that we need to amend our lifestyle
In order to deal with it. It's a non-existent problem
But how do you explain this stuff to your normie friends?
Well, I've just brought out the revised edition of my 2012 classic book
Watermelons which captures the story of how
Some really nasty people decided to invent the global warming scare in order to
fleece you to take away your freedoms to take away your land
It's a shocking story
I wrote it as I say in well 2011 actually the first edition came out
And it's a snapshot of a particular era the era when
The people behind the chime climate change scan got caught red-handed
Tinkering with the data
Torturing till it screamed in a scandal that I helped christen climate gate
So I give you the background to to the skull jugglery that went on in in these seats of learning where these supposed
Experts were informing us. We've got to act now
I rumbled their their scan. I then asked the question. Okay, if it is a scan
Who's doing this and and why?
It's a good story
I I've kept the the original book pretty much as is but I've written two
New chapters one at the beginning and one at the end
Explaining how it's even worse than we thought
I think it's a good. I think it still stands up. I think it's it's a good read
Obviously I'm biased, but I'd recommend it. You can buy it from
james delingpole.co.uk
forward slash shop
But you're probably fine that might just go to my website and look for it james delingpole.co.uk
And I hope it helps keep you informed
And gives you the material you need to bring around all those
People who are still persuaded that oh, it's a disaster. We must amend our ways and appease the gods appease mother god
everyday, it's a scam
Yes
Yes, I I I I've heard that I think it was from from um from urie
The the the the deal has been struck whereby
Putin is not allowed to take out
Zelensky Zelensky is completely
Bulletproof he told that was that's from an interview. I think it's with the former prime minister of israel
Bennett if I'm remembering correctly and he said in an interview
I think with the guardian that uh, putin reshared him that he would never that he wouldn't touch zelensky
yeah, so
Because obviously
Okay, so there is the
On the smo. There is the narrative in the mainstream media, which I notice more and more
is so heavily controlled by
What mi6? I mean it might as well be be repeating
mi6 press releases
Frankly and and and that narrative has it
Putler
Is is evil, right? He's he's hell-bent on conquest. That's why he took the Crimea
And that's why he invaded this innocent
sovereign state country full of
Gambling lambs and innocent beautiful golden-haired children who all they wanted was peace
And and it was a lovely country ukraine not at all controlled by the cia since 1948
No Nazis anywhere
And zelensky and his magnificent
Zelensky green t-shirt is a statesman
And he's extraordinary and and we must send more
Storm shadow missiles so that we can take out all those evil russians who are so you get this narrative and and
Oh, yeah, and the the butcher
massacre
What we're told was carried out by
To evil terrible russias
And then you get the alternative
Kind of awake persons in the west take on on this which is this is all bollocks
It's an smo that that that uh, it follows the color revolution carried out in 2014
funded by george soros
planned by
victoria newland newlander people like that and it that
Often often people with sort of caesarean beef with with the right ancestral beef with the russians and
and um
that
The reason that russia didn't didn't take care for it's because that was never the plan
They want to just just keep the donbas and to protect the russian-speaking peoples and stuff
And the russians are running rings around the ukranians yada yada yada
So you get this massively anti russian narrative in the mainstream
yeah
Pretty strongly pro russian narrative in the oh, we're we also of course those of us who
value facts know that boris johnson was
dispatched
in order to
Sabotage the mince one and minx two agreement agreements which would have brought this war
To an end which is which is killing
Boys from both sides, you know, they're all being massacred in the meat grinder. No one wants them to die
So boris johnson has blood on his hands and and his mysterious backer
I think paid him a million pounds to participate in this so we get all that but
The war goes on
Tell me what's what's really happening
Look, I mean when I write about the slmo which I have been openly critical of since before even started actually
But I've never hidden my opposition to this conflict and the reason why I
Opposed it was because
You have to realize okay
Like I when I when I when I try to interpret what's happening or how effective this smo has been
I try to take the kremlin's perspective. I say, okay, this is what the russian government said it wanted to accomplish in ukraine
Like these are the motives. This is what
provoked it
As you know from the kremlin's perspective. This is what they're saying. This is their mindset
Um
And you have to recognize that all the problems that needed to be solved before february of 2022 are like a thousand times worse
Now after four years of war. So, you know, like the like for example
One of the biggest, you know beefs that the kremlin allegedly had against the west was
NATO's eastward expansion
NATO has expanded over the last four years
The the militarization of ukraine and ukraine's relationship with nato has
Grown by I don't even know if there's a multiplier large enough to describe
How much more militarized and nato integrated ukraine is compared to when before this war started
So unfortunately like the way that I view this and and to go even a step further and this goes beyond, you know
nato even
Uh
It's so tragic that you have a situation where you had really two
Brotherly peoples, you know part of basically the same sort of civilizational concept
That are now going to be permanently like we're talking about a permanent divorce at this point
I mean it will take a very very long time
For russians and ukrainians to come to terms with with what has occurred
Of course
The problem started long before the sml
But the sml it totally exacerbated all these problems and made it much much more difficult
To come to some kind of common understanding and try to like forgive each other
It's like it's really really bad and what you have to realize is that
The kremlin perspective on this like like you have an interview that I've cited several times with sergey lavrov russia's foreign minister
2018 is giving this interview right to russians media and the russian journalist says
This is 2018, you know, we should recognize uh, donetsk and lugansk as independent
And uh, yeah, like why don't we do that and lavrov says them? Okay. So what happens after that?
The journalist replies then we defend this territory like we send in russian troops to protect donetsk and lugansk
And lavrov says like that people say that but they don't understand what they're actually saying
What they're actually saying is that if we went to war with ukraine if we sent
Russian troops into donetsk and lugansk and declared them independent and separate from ukraine
We lose the rest of ukraine forever like you are you are severing the country
Along that line and the rest of ukraine is now in the sphere of the collective west or the satanic nato
You know cabalas or whatever you want to call it like you lose you lose
This part of ukraine which used to be part of you know, like it's no longer part of the russian world on any level
um
And that's like we are witnessing that but the problem is
To make it even worse like lavrov saw the worst-case scenario
But it's we're actually in a situation that's worse than the worst-case scenario
Envisioned by lavrov because russia hasn't actually taken donetsk and lugansk like all of donetsk yet
Which means that there's gonna have to be like some very painful negotiations
In order like in order to get these territories that are still under ukraine control
You either gonna have to have much much more bloodshed and devastation
Or they're gonna have to make some very painful compromises and let's not also forget that uh, ukraine still occupies
Uh, her son in zeperozha the two these are cities of what russia declared as
regions of the russian federation that are under control of ukraine
So how are you getting those back right like like there doesn't seem to be uh acknowledgement, you know every day i read
You know i see the headlines from our beautiful alternative media about how you know russia's kicking ass in ukraine
And making all these incredible advances. We're talking about advances of like
You know five kilometers in a region that russia needs to take at a bare minimum
In order to accomplish anything, you know worthwhile in ukraine
But the reality is when this conflict ends
ukraine is now totally in the west sphere of influence like there can be no more discussion
About ukraine being part of the russian world anymore and that like that goes beyond geopolitics that goes beyond, you know, whatever
Weird website you're reading about 5d chess like that's really painful for a lot of russians and ukranians who have family
You know and in both sides like
It was like a common
A common people at one point and now they've been they've been sliced in half by this horrific
Catastrophic conflict, which yes it did begin
Long before the smo but again the smo did not achieve like it didn't actually
Fix any of the problems that it was supposed to fix in fact it accomplished everything that it was supposed to prevent
Which is nato expansion the massive militarization of ukraine the formation of ukraine to a permanent anti russia
Like it's really really tragic what we're witnessing and it's it's shocking to me that um, you don't really hear a lot in
So-called independent media like you never get the
Like war what is it good for?
Argument in independent media you only hear like ukraine is stupid for fighting this war
Like looks like raw raw
You know russia
But the reality is that this every day this work goes on makes it much much more difficult for russia to achieve anything
And the cost has already been so so high
If you'll allow me though
Actually, I was thinking about this
I mean thinking about this topic a lot uh recently because we're coming up to
The uh, we're almost entering the fifth year of this conflict
Which means that it's lasted longer than the great patriotic war right like it's it's lasted longer than operation
Russia the invasion of the soviet union ending with
You know, soviet soldiers raising the flag over the Reichstag like that's how long this thing has been going on
I was thinking about like how insane the last four years have been and I was reminded of this
Gentleman alexa mosgvoy. I don't know if you ever heard of him
He was the leader of the prizerok brigade the ghost brigade. He was one of the original militias
Uh that that sort of rose up against the sort of my dawn government in don bass
So we're talking about like 2014 2015 and there's this amazing
Like letter. Actually, I think it was probably segments of a diary that was sort of compiled
I got to read some of this to you because it touches on so many things. We've spoken about today
Um, and so I by the way, mosgvoy was assassinated in 2015 very strange circumstances
Totally different story. But anyway, this is what mosgvoy says. Okay. This is a 2015. Listen
He says brothers
I see how our enemies having divided our people are preparing a big war for us
And my people are not russian or ukrainian my people are one and I don't want to know anything else
As a man without an arm or a leg is considered a cripple. So is a divided people
We russians ukrainians belarusans are bequeathed to be together
And the fact that today we are mad and hate each other is the main indictment against us
We have violated this covenant
What did we lack brothers soil? Look how much land we have freedom. So by killing each other, we become more free
I think we just don't have enough love for our brother
We have forgotten what the sanctity of kinship is and therefore strangers come to us and become masters of our house
Now these strangers whom we trusted more than our own people are urging us on
And under their sly speeches about the greatness of the russian and ukrainian people
We are killing each other
He's goes on to say
We the slandered and robbed have only a common dream of a just state
Ukranians dream about a great ukraine russians about great russia
But in essence, this is one big dream of a divided people
Yearning for their homeland for 25 years
We aren't yearning for a state of oligarchs and traitors the moscow and Kiev colonies
But for our own united slavic state and it doesn't matter to me
What it will be called Kievan russ muscovite russ novel russia
The main thing is that it will be a new russia our common home
In the meantime, we kill each other and our executioners almost openly push us to kill
They mock us on russian and ukrainian television either insulting the ukrainian people and calling them fascists
Or insulting the russian people calling them occupiers from the objective russian media
You will not hear words of sympathy excuse me sympathy for ukranians in trouble
They will not say who plunged the whole nation into a spiritual catastrophe and the russians themselves no longer hear their brothers
They like the ukranians were lulled into patriotic lies about their own greatness and kindled petty national pride in arrogance
The main thing that the media is busy with is preventing the awakening of good feelings between our people
How humiliated we are brothers by insulting one another and are we so blind that we can't see the real enemies?
The war will at least open the eyes of our people to who we are and who our enemy is
He says don't trust he ends with don't trust your enemies
Do not trust muscov and Kiev even if they give you the entire dombas from slavia angst to mario pul
Even if they give you all of novel russia don't believe it. They will turn everything into defeat
Power in russia and ukraine is in the same hands
That was in 2015
What a prescient guy, right? I can see why they had to kill him. Yep
Yeah, this is a guy who rose up against you know, like the the whole maydan government
But by the end of his unfortunately short-lived life realized that he was fighting this futile war where the ukranians were his brothers
And they were just being pitted against each other by the global oligarchy
Wow
so
Do you have any
Do both sides want this this forever war is that I mean is it is the putin regime trying to lose?
Yeah, you know, that's that's such a good question because the way that the russian government has been behaving is
Truly puzzling like i'm sorry
But this idea that russia is running circles around ukraine just doesn't make any sense
Like you have to if you look at this conflict objectively the reality is that
Um, you were by the way, you're absolutely correct to point out that boris johnson intervened in the early weeks of the war
and stopped a peace deal from being signed and
Now four years later all we see is mindless slaughter
What is very puzzling though is that instead of like I think that by april 2022
uh, putin had two options two good like only logical options was to either
mobilize russian society
And end the war as soon as possible
Or withdraw because he chose like the worst possible option
Which is just to sort of let it continue
And it just sort of drags on with
Nothing really being accomplished and there was no like russia is now relying on a completely contract army
Which doesn't make any sense if this is a real existential threat
Like it doesn't there just doesn't seem to be any connect between the reality of what's occurring and the russia's
Own policy towards the conflict and how to resolve it correctly
Um, I mean decisively. Yeah on on paper
Russian russian military dwarfs ukraine's okay, so it's it's ukraine plus
Right all the nato and all the west and all the west
Theoretically the russian should be they should have wrapped this one up ages ago, shouldn't they?
Yeah, yes. Yes, like this. I'm sorry, but this whole you know this meme of like the war of the you know
The war of attrition. Actually, there's now this new term that uh, the so-called alt medias using which is the
The snail offensive technique and that that's supposed to be that's supposed to be a
Flattering term whereby russia is just slowly and surgically
Inching forward as it mows down hundreds of thousands of ukrainians while incurring almost no losses
Like that's the new narrative. I'm sorry, but this makes absolutely no sense
If you understand the objectives of the smo the stated objectives from the kremlin
The longer this war goes on the more difficult it is to accomplish anything the longer the war goes on the more
Time nato has to establish to firmly can take control of ukraine
The more likely it is that ukrainians will never forgive russians for what has happened like every single time
An artillery shell lands on a ukrainian town or city
Do you think that that's going to make it easier to create a neutral friendly ukraine?
Like do people realize that when they glow over how you know, ukraine has no electricity
That doesn't make like the there's going to be a post-war reality
And do you realize how much ukrainians are going to hate russia after this?
Like that it like people don't understand what they're even supporting anymore, you know
so
you you mentioned
slightly ironically, but
With a degree of truth satanic satanic nato
Forces it seems to me that at the highest levels
the people
who are kind of
Keeping this conflict going
actually want to see
Christian men from both slight sides being slaughtered and a kind of satanic blood blood sacrifice
I mean you can absolutely put it that way and I don't think I could disagree like
I mean you could even be more general which is just they
Like there's it's obvious that a calling a slavic calling is occurring in ukraine
and
No one wants to there doesn't seem to be any urgency to to flip the the switch off, you know like another thing that
Actually blows my mind is that I I have to bring this up every time I talk to anyone on a podcast or anything
Because it's still like it literally melts my brain that every day now
um
munitions supplied by nato or funded by nato
Land on russian territory like not even disputed russian territory like bell girl for example
Killing russians destroying infrastructure etc etc and the russian the russian government's response is just to put their thumb up their ass
and like
Do nothing like that would have it just would have never
Occurred to me that's even a possibility 10 years ago and now it's just normal
It's like reading the weather report and how how did how did we get here?
Like how did that become normal?
And why is it that instead of seeing like zolensky being in his entire
You know cabinet being blown to the moon
You have uh, you know guys like kareel dimitria of the the kremlin's lead negotiator
Calling trump daddy on twitter like unironically
Yeah
I was hoping you'd be able to make help you make sense of it, but actually
I'm I'm totally like it it honestly like I can't tell you how I mean it's it's puzzling
It's it's scary
Like it's scary that something so insane can become normal and I thought that I had seen everything after covid like this whole
You know this whole idea of normalization
Um, you know and returning to the new normal like I really thought that I had seen it all
But this idea that now that this state of affairs is totally normal
It's shocking. It's what what what I found even worse actually. Um, and that is pretty shocking
is that
we've got
political leaders
like
Kim starmer who apparently is currently the british prime minister and you've got all the the germans seem to be particularly into this idea as well
That they want to kind of commit
commit
Boots on the ground they want that they want to bring in
The rest of the west to come and come and fight this
this glorious virtuous
slaughter
it's it's
How they've managed to sell it to anyone. Yeah, we've got houses
I mean drive through through the village near me
There's there's a blue and yellow flag on the wall which of of a one of the sandstone houses that's been there since
Suddenly the last five years. There's a ukrainian
Flag which flutters where I go riding and frightening the horses and and and they were hanging they were fluttering from a lot of church spires at one stage
and I'm thinking
how
How um
Blinkered do they consider the british populace to be that they can just sort of
psych us into this
World war three for this this kill zone
I mean it seems to exist only to kill people on either side
Yeah, well, it's it's shocking. I mean look and by the way, I just want to make it
I mean hopefully it's clear, but you know my own criticism of of how russia's handling this war does not negate the fact that
Obviously the west is is
At least it's guilty as just yeah pumping this conflict full of weapons for no
Nothing positive is being accomplished. Obviously. This has nothing to do with like democracy or freedom. I mean that's all again
That's all just
marketing for the for the pros and it's it's scary like it's scary how
You see how just like most of what was talking like both sides are just blind to the fact that every people are just being cold
When there are real enemies are the ones who are pushing us into the kill zone, you know, yeah, and yeah
Do you do you think there's anything in it? No, what one of the
One of my take-homes from my trip to russia was that I think
only about
three percent of the russian population are
regular
churchgoers
But I did get the sense
That I was in the the heartland of christianity that the the mother russia is the sort of the the last
guardian of of christianity
Do you think there's anything in in the idea that that that
This this is this is why they want why they the powers that be want to want to slaughter slavs
You know, it's I think that there's an argument to be made for it. Uh
Yeah, like
I'm sure that there are many many levels to this conflict and you know, you've even mentioned
You know, I'm sure that there are like a cult reasons for what we are witnessing and you know
Obviously, whether you want to call it christianity or whatever
Obviously, there's going to be a spiritual element to this like like there's something
I mean just the idea that you could push people like that. We're witnessing an orgy of violence
Which in itself is like some sort of weird, uh, you know like ceremony, you know, we're witnessing something like something
Scary like not of this world
Uh, yeah, like
Russia, I think and and with
as sort of uh, you know
Bedrock of christianity
Look, there's a lot of great things you could say about it. Uh, you know, I was I was I'm an episcopalian
I don't know if you're familiar with the episcopalians. They're like the american anglicans
Uh, I was I was raised a episcopalian and I was later baptized in the orthodox church
I'm not practicing at the moment to be honest, but um, like I totally get it
Like I think that you go into a orthodox church in russia and it's an incredible experience
Like you said, I mean the music is honestly like angelic. It's incredible. Like it's an it's like a real
I mean, even if you're not religious, it's an experience just to be there and witness the these
Um, yeah, these liturgies
Um, but you know, just like a Tolstoy novel russia is full of contradiction. So you do have this sort of
deep-seated
Feeling of spirituality that is seems foreign in the west, but you also have one of the world's highest divorce rates, you know
Like it's there's this it's it's russia. It's a very messy place like and and that's what I would tell anyone
It's like you can't you got to take the good with the bad and you got to be realistic about russia, you know
Yeah, yeah to
you um
You you you well, obviously
You're among the the you fit into the awake category. I mean, I it's quite difficult to find an acceptable term that describes those of us who are skeptical about the
official narrative, but I suppose it awake will will will do
Did were you always that way? Did you always do or did you once believe in the system?
Yeah, well, you know like like anyone you
So, you know one of my biggest things I really don't write about it enough
But actually it's my real passion, which is I think that maybe the world's biggest conspiracy is a government education
And I'm convinced that if we could just stop
You know if we could stop schooling our children like that's that's the solution to everything because you're basically
From the moment you're born you're basically programmed to think a certain way and the and I think honestly
What you really just need is a revolution of the mind and then everything is very very simple actually
Um, so yeah, you know like I grew up in southern california
And then I moved to massachusetts, which is even more retardedly liberal than california
And so, you know, obviously like growing up in that sort of environment
You are told like there are acceptable ways of viewing the world. They're acceptable politicians. They used to support
You know, there was a time there was a time when I was a bernie sander supporter
I mean, it's embarrassing to say but you know, like I fell for the scythe
Like I thought that he looked that bernie sanders was gonna fight the clinton machine
I mean looking back on it. I just feel silly, but I think that uh, everyone you just have to go through this process of
Examining your beliefs and saying well, okay, I believe this but does it actually make any sense?
And you just sort of keep going wherever it takes you, right?
And so no, I mean like anyone
Um, I was told to think a certain way and told that by thinking this way
I was a good person and then the more but then you sort of realized like
This is rubbish
I can't believe this, you know
Yeah, yeah, I I used to
I used to sort of call myself a sort of south park conservative or a sort of libertarian
Conservative and I thought if only everyone everyone read
Uh von Mises and uh and hyac
It would all be sorted out and and and all we needed was a kind of a proper
Conservative administration in power to that understood this and once the once the all be over
And you don't realize you just just being being played
There was a
An old a university friend of mine who became prime minister
I used to smoke weed with him and my in my
set in in in in christ church and and
I thought well, maybe maybe
Dave is the guy. Yeah, right
I smoked drugs with him and and he seemed a pretty sound conservative when I was smoking drugs with him
and and then he gets in power and he does all these kind of
Really lame-ass things that you associate with the left
And you realize
No
This is not accidental. They're all
They all do the same thing because they're not in control. They just they're following orders from above
That's so funny. You bring that up because I'm not going to name him
But actually I went to college with a guy who was very very like I would say very chill
It was obvious that he wanted to go into politics
But he seemed like a very decent fellow and he actually now is a us congressman
He's in congress and you know, I checked on his voting record recently
And he like voted for they don't have weapons for israel and like just doing all the things that you know
No normal human would ever do
But it's like once you get into power. You just you just you do what you're supposed to do or I don't know like
Who knows what happens. So yeah, it's like, yeah
Yeah, well, I think your wife gets murdered
Yeah for something like that congress. I think that's the deal. That's what they do
And anyway, you're so bound up by the the kind of the compromise
They've gone on you because of the the child sex party you attended where you took a cheeky line of adrenochrome and
I mean, it's just like I mean, that's that's literally what they do
Like it's it's incredible. Like, you know, actually being back in the united states
It's so funny james like because you know, I mean my my my mother for example is I mean
Carter gold but uh is very sort of she's a sort of cnn liberal
And so we we're watching, you know, the news reports about the epstein files and stuff
And she's like, oh, I can't believe that, you know
Like trump is involved in all this and it's with whole of the epstein files
And I was like, well, yeah, but you realize that one of these epstein files do if they ever do come out
They're gonna be just as bad for the clintons as they are for trump
But you but you worship the clintons and you hate trump, but it's like they're all
sex criminals
That's it. There's the
Have you come across peter duke?
No, he's he's great. I've I've I've I've just done a podcast with him. He's got this great
Substitute he's been around the block. He's he's a he's a very very smart cookie and he's
He's worked in industries like hollywood. So he's he's he's been inside the belly of the beast
and
He's constructed this quite plausible theory on on how the world is run the sort of the the structure the command structure
So at the bottom, you've got
The sort of the lump and masses who are living in play toes cave
Right and there and and they're just trance by all the all the projections on the wall of the cave and and that's where most people are
And then you've got the next level up
Who are I can't remember whether he does he call them true believers or something the people who are
Committed activists or they like they're conservatives. They're mugga conservatives or or they're
And and and they believe that
The political system can affect the change that they want if only that they they they commit themselves to the cause with enough passion
They believe in it and how it works
And then above that
You've got the assets
And the assets would be I suppose I would have been an asset
Um
I was a successful mainstream media
Commentator for the right. I was putting forward the right the right the contentious
Right-wing view and I was living in a society of
Destroyed by liberalism and if only if only my forthright viewers will listen to more then then eventually
We would take the citadel
and then
On the on the on the level above that are the handlers and the handlers are the people who kind of
well steer the
Steer
The assets in the right direction
The assets are the sorry the handlers the assets don't necessarily know they're compromised
Sometimes they do sometimes they don't the handlers are definitely part of the system
They know exactly what they're doing and then above that you've got the the the upper upper tears
um
but
Well, it's a good theory anyway, I mean, I think I think it it does explain how the world works
I mean, I don't think there's any way and again like
I it's always hard because I
I don't like to I'm trying more and more not to generalize and be as specific as possible
But I think it's there's no getting around the fact that once you reach a certain level of
Authority or responsibility or power
You don't get there unless they have something on you
Like you might you might you might not be reading from a script
But the only reason you're there is because if you do something that they don't like
They have ways of ways of dealing with that, you know, like they do
I just don't think that there's any way to deny that at this point
And nobody is you can't really buy or buy your piece of freedom. I was I talking to um,
Burlingham the other day. Um, I don't whether you come across him
He he comes from one of the sort of the
Well, I don't know about Illuminati, but but sort of bloodline families
The kind of family that can afford to have a family office and
He says that when you get to the level of wealth where you've got a family office
You're very constrained as to what you can do and what you can't do and and how you you couldn't suddenly decide to
to go off-piste and and and
Say
I imagine if you found the office you you couldn't sort of run a set up an organization
Exposing the the global conspiracy for example
So you can have loads and loads of money, but still you're not free. You've got to work within the constraints of this
wicked system
Yeah, yeah
But what what so you you grew up in in southern california
But I can't remember what I what I heard about you. You're I mean you're quite quite affluent
background
Like upper middle class, I would say I mean my father was um, he worked actually in hollywood as a independent like
cinematographer and producer he had his own production company and then we moved east when I was
10 or 11
Yeah, so and then basically the moment I got out of college
I went to washington dc to you know pursue my
illustrious career as a political
Journalist and commentator and within a year. I was like so cynical and jaded and burnt out
and I like I never want to do I never want to
type another word in my life. I'm so sick of everything and
you know
It didn't really work out that way. I suppose I'm always interested in in
Where people are coming from and what their journey has been. I mean you're familiar with
Rurik Skywalker
Indeed
His his student in many way. I can't remember what his real name is, but but I mean he's very forthright on
On russia, but in fact he makes you look look positively restrained and he's
but
I have trouble
I don't want to go. Yeah, Rurik. You're so right about everything when he's a pagan
I mean he's not he doesn't even believe in in in god and stuff
does he
He's a um, I think he does, but maybe just not in the christian idea of it
Yeah, look, I'm not, you know, yeah
It's you know for me. This might sound like a cop out, but it's really not like I I've sort of backed away from the whole
Religious debate in general. I absolutely think that it's an important part of what's going on like at a spiritual level
There's obviously weird scary forces, you know in play
Um for me though, like I don't know increasingly I found myself like I
I don't really care what you believe like as long as
You're not trying to aggressively like cattle tag me and murder my family, you know, like I don't know like I'm looking
Just for like anyone who I can just
Grow out with at this point, you know like and grow potatoes with I'm not gonna lie
So I've become very like non ideological
I'm very much with you on the potato growing
Yeah
But but I I bring these things up not because I'm a kind of fanatical sure sure
Evangelical or anything like that. Yeah, it's just that
There comes a point
Actually, probably quite early on in in one's one's journey down the rabbit hole
Where you start asking yourself
Who runs the world right and what's their motivation?
Because those those those the those are the two quick questions. What what what's what's the plan?
You know, what why they why they're doing this?
and
You can't
Spend as long as I have
I mean five years of I've I've been on the the intense
phd course and
rabbit horology and I spend a lot of time looking I mean, I don't
Once you go there, you don't want to go anywhere else, do you and and
I've started sort of
Drawing up my my big picture theory about about
Who they are and and how it works and yeah
It just seems to me that that if you exclude the supernatural you're you're missing out
One of the most important elements that this is and this is a spiritual war being between good and evil being played out on on earth
and once you
Decide that and I I think it's not an unreasonable conclusion
You then go well, okay
These people how do they fit into this schemata the the the people who who run the world and I I liked what you said about the
The different drugs gangs because I think that's I think that's very true
It's I sometimes use the analogy of the mafia, you know, you've got different you've got different families
And then you've got the capo de tutti capi. Who's probably who's probably satan. I mean in in in my in my book
but
or a different
Some some of the the gangs would be one of the gangs would be the jews
One of the gangs would be the freemasons
one of them would be
the jesuits
there were
And they're all in on it. There's no there's no there's no but but I think that what's what unites these all these
Different gangs is that ultimately their fealty is to it's the lucifer
Do you don't you don't you don't you you wouldn't go there?
Um, I would just I like I don't think I'm at the point where I can like pinpoint what the they're obviously worshiping something
Right, like what what what is I think that you're absolutely asking the right questions
Like what is the ultimate goal here, right? Like you do have like for example, I've never really understood
the whole
Okay, like I get it
There are like I don't think there's any denying for example that they are very very powerful jewish bankers
Who are extremely Zionist and have this idea of like creating the rebuilding the temple of Solomon or whatever
And so what what like but why though, right?
And so I guess the your answer would be
Because they worship lucifer because the devil wants it. Yeah, because the devil wants it. So that's your that's your answer
yeah, I mean like
I think that that makes sense
Like I I don't know. I'm not I just just like it's just so bizarre the whole thing is just so
Mind-melting just I'm yeah, you you find me a better explanation Riley. I
I challenge you won't
There is one because you said you said who do these guys follow? I was gonna say well, it ain't the god of love is it?
Oh, no, okay. Yeah, so I think that like roots
Yeah, I mean, obviously we know what they don't you know, we obviously know what they don't worship
you know, so
Yeah, it's
man, like what what is really behind it all whether it's whether they're worshiping a deity or they're just
been corrupted by generations of you know on basically
Endless power and wealth and I mean I
Who knows but
You you seem to be very certain that it's it's lucifer worship basically
Yeah, yeah, I think it I I I think it is I mean there's there's
Some people people who are interested in systems
um
Have come up with some very good analyses which which which sort of suggests that
The system is is it's so entrenched now. It doesn't matter about about
Who the individual players are the system is sort of self
Replicating and self-reinforcing and and and that that we get more and more constrained
But I think that just argues for a kind of diabolical intelligence that could that that created this
this system
It's yeah, I was going to ask you
About your exit from from russia. You were you were booted out
Well, no, technically. No, technically. No, we should I should be we should be
I should be careful. We should be careful with our words
And so I wasn't booted out, but I sort of I felt like I got a message
It said I was no longer welcome there
And so I decided to make my exit while I you know still had the opportunity to do so
I mean basically what happened was that I
Me my son and my partner
I were all we're all american citizens. My
Son is half russian so he has a russian and us passport
We went to the united states for my son's birthday. We flew back to russia. I flew with my son my partner
Flew separately and when she arrived in moscow. She was detained and questioned for several hours
at the airport
Um after several hours of interrogation where they went through her phone and asked her questions
You know about like me and her views on things they they ultimately said okay, you're free to go
They they actually stamped her passport saying yes, you've been granted entry to russia
She was just told to wait outside
Kept waiting kept waiting hours went by
A guy comes out and says actually we're deporting you actually doesn't even say that he just escorts her to a holding cell
The stamp had been annulled in her passport. She wasn't told why she was being deported
We later found out through uh, we hired a lawyer to get to the bottom all this that it was for national security reasons
But the fsb won't explain why it's for national security reasons
And uh, so yeah, I mean look, uh, it would be great if they could just be more forthcoming about why they did this
but I think all the evidence points to the fact that they basically
penalized her for her relationship with me and instead, you know instead of going just after me
Which would be at least the honorable thing to do they chose the coward's path
And it's really really sad because my partner had lived her basically her entire adult life in russia
She's an american who speaks the most beautiful russian you've ever heard in your life
She would worked as a professional translator. She worked, uh as a freelancer for the hamertage museum
She was months before this happened. She was on russian state television doing a
Talk show or a quiz show in russian, of course
Where she competed with other foreign nationals living in russia and answering questions about russian culture
And history and absolutely dominated like absolutely blew all the competition out of the water
Um, you know, she loved this country so much. She has a daughter who was also half russian has a russian passport
And she was basically just kicked out of the country even though
She's never had a hateful or hurtful idea in her mind. She she's loves she loved russia
She loved russia much more than I did. I was always complaining about it
That's so sad. Yeah, it really is it really is sad and you know, it's like
Right now we're in this process. We're trying to appeal. She got a 25 year ban a 25 year ban
Yeah, and so that um, we're trying to appeal it through this russian lawyer, you know in russia
And he's telling us he's told us that as he's going through this appeal process
He's been pressured by authorities to drop the case
That is literally being that is being intimidated not to pursue this appeal
It's interesting that you're considered to be
such a threat
I mean, I that that's what's so puzzling about it because I
Like yeah, I you're just grouchy guy on on on substack
Like I yeah, I'm just I'm just a grouch on substack like you could just ignore me
My audience is like 98% westerners. It doesn't matter what I think
uh, and what really all it did was deprive me the opportunity of sharing like my
Stories and experiences in russia, which were I thought were beautiful things to share with the world
Like I would write regularly about my life in this little russian village where I was living and trying to make it as a
You know, basically a brainless like a farmer who had no idea what he was doing, but it was a it was a wonderful experience
It was a privilege to uh live in this village. I miss it dearly. I just wish it could have lasted longer
Um, they haven't really accomplished anything all I do is look silly and petty
And they like took away a voice who could have given like a presented a more human side
To russia. I don't know why they did it
Yeah, what have you got any theories
I guess they just are bitter. I don't know like I don't know
Maybe maybe there's some other technical reason they decided to do this
All they have to do is just be forthcoming and honest
Like just tell us like just give us a reason give us a reason
It doesn't have to be there. It doesn't have to be the the the true reason just like explain something
They won't even do that and all all they've been trying to do is stone wall any attempt to find out
Or to appeal it or just get some clarity
Yeah, I
In the days when I used to go to america
um
I even and I totally believed in in in the west and you know, uh
Uh-huh
Thought I believed all the narratives and stuff
But even even in my most pro american period, I recognized that there was a quality in america
where
It was a great place to be until you fell foul of the system
When you would suddenly be absolutely
Shafted they could do anything to you and it was ruthless and brutal and
I think that
america and russia
Have that in common in different. I mean russia is is is sort of perhaps more
stolid about it and the old-fashioned america is sort of
pretends that it's
But but the this is the same problem, isn't it? I mean and also my own country now
I mean, yeah, I was very very lucky
Not to be detained at the airport and questioned for five hours under anti-terrorism legislation
Which happens to a lot of people who go to russia these days and why I mean what
What I was doing was just going and hanging out with some monks and say aren't the aren't the food markets great
Right stuff. No, it's it's absurd. I I mean, I totally agree. In fact, it's funny because I really do believe that
Uh, I mean russia the united states share so much in common and and like you pointed out one of them is like this
Man when you get on the wrong side of things
The it's just endless pain like the curb stomping is relentless
Um, and yeah, like I mean the thing is what's curb stomping
Well, it's like so a curb like uh, you have a different word in british english, don't you? Like, uh, you know the curb
Oh, you have a curb. Yeah, yeah pavement and then the curb
The curb stop is like to put someone's head on the curb and just stop it. Oh, I see. Yeah
Yes, yeah, um, sorry for being so uh graphic
No, but that's what we are all living in
In tyrannies and yeah, the difference is that the russians the russians know it the russian people know it
They do know it. Well, so many I go around
And talk to people about this stuff
I'll make sure to my wife and she'll think I'm just an absolute nutcase. How can you think that?
This is this is this is england. This is great. Yeah, it's the same in the united states
I mean, I've never been in a more like over educated
Uh, idiotic country, you know, like people are you have all these people with like master's degrees from harvard who think it's great that you know, you can be
Uh, you know interrogated endlessly, you know and some like gitmo type camp. I think it's like all for freedom, you know
It's just it's just scary. It's really scary. Like it's scary living amongst people who who were that's normal
And it gets worse with each each generation. I was in the sauna last night
And it was unusually crowded sauna and there was there was a
A woman there I'd say the sort of the the generation below mine
And we were talking about skiing and I was I saying I I hadn't been skiing
In so long that in my day
Everyone used to ski without with just wearing woolly hats. Nobody wore a crash helmet and apparently now I gather
you everyone wears wears a crash hat and
If you don't wear a crash hat you get really strange looks
And I said I have a real problem with this
Nobody died or hardly anyone died or I mean, okay shumaka had a
But wasn't he wearing a helmet? I forget but but I don't like the idea that there are helmet dances patrolling every every
Every every slope and I said it's like it's like the starsy
It's like the lives of others that that movie. I don't really I love that film. That's a great film
Yeah, and I said I don't mind so much people in the actual starsy
I what I
Resent is the way that the whole of the citizenry has been mobilized in support of this
So those people sort of giving you funny looks if you're not wearing a crash helmet and she said yes, but on the other hand
Traumatic head injuries and and and also people might feel uncomfortable blah blah blah. I said, you know the problem with you
You don't you've never grown up in a world where where you were free
Your generation doesn't know what freedom looks like. I I remember remember a period where we could do pretty much
What we liked
And your generation does not it does not know that world
The next generation is going to it's going to know even less what it's like
I think that people don't realize that real freedom comes with with
Certain dangers. I guess you could put it or or possible hazards
And now we are we've turned towards safetyism and convenience
Uh, and yeah, I mean the our very conception of freedom, you know at this point
I'm sure it's very similar in the uk
It's like, you know freedom is now where you get to choose between a selection of
Precurated options, you know and then the the best thing too, of course
That the way that you show that you're free is that once you've chosen your your choice, which has already been
Preselected, uh, you're supposed to argue with people who chose the different choice
And that's how you show that you're living in a vibrant democracy, you know
Everyone's arguing over I chose this thing that was already pre-select
I chose this one and and then you grab each other by the neck and
Defriend each other on facebook and that's how you show that you're living a vibrant free
democracy
Yeah, that's what that's what they get. Did you ever hear about this thing we had called brexit?
Oh, yeah, of course
Yeah, we were given this this and it lasted they dragged it on for years
It was like and it turned into the english civil war
Where families were divided brothers were divided from brothers and uncles from up
It was it was and
There are still people who who will freeze me out because I I chose the wrong side in this
war and and the net result was
Nothing nothing changed everything got worse. That was right. You had the legacy bitterness, but
It's like the the smo. You're right. Yeah, like nothing has been gained
Just ruining friendships and families. Yeah. Yeah
yeah, I did I I went to buy some um
some
Groceries today in the supermarket and the woman was lamenting the fact that they were
I mean, I'm surrounded by beautiful countryside good hunt country
and with these
remote villages and stuff, but I saw one of the most remote idyllic villages is about to have a
housing development
And there isn't there is no reason that place does it needs a housing development likely needs a hole in the head
There is no reason for it the people who live in that housing development are going to have no affection for the area
And no no sympathy no understanding of what makes that the countryside so especially it's just a dormitory
For for for the cities. That's all it's going to be
And they're not good. They're not going to get
What happened with it?
Am I wrong in thinking that like architecture has been completely corrupted to the point where it's it's literally like a war against uh, like
Totally totally, but that's been happening
Since well you think about when brutalism came in when was that in the in the
I was like the
Okay, I suppose it was and and look abuse a was was was yeah
Yeah, so I mean like why is there not like a single architect in the world who has any shame?
You know like what what happened?
Because it's such a beautiful art form and and somehow we just destroyed it within a generation
This this this goes goes to my point that I was having with the conversation with with this woman in the shot
I said
What you have to understand is that this is all
deliberate
Yeah, yeah want to crush us. They want to make us miserable. In fact, I was gonna I was trying to
I think
Jacob Jacob Nordengard, I think yeah written about this um
And he describes the moment when
Whoever it was
entered um
Constantinople and they saw the the the the eastern the the um
The eastern uh christian empire at its at its zenith
And they were so overwhelmed by the beauty that that they wept that we are meant to seek beauty beauty
Yes, yes lifts the soul. Yes people building these things. In fact
My son had just he's been in in paris and he'd been to the pear lashes
cemetery
and he sent a photograph back of
Oscar Wilde's tomb
And you kind of think I mean Oscar Wilde was probably an asset wasn't he I should think
Yeah, he had an agenda because how good how good a playwright was he really?
I think he was probably a bit of shit. He came up with an aphorism, but then I mean so did so did allegedly
uh, Albert Einstein and Mark Twain and they were assets as well
I I don't believe anything anymore, but
If you were going to have a tomb for Oscar Wilde, yeah
It would be it would have to be camp and probably with lots of
It would probably be found as the actual it would probably be kind of ord. Aubrey Beardsley esk
It would be yeah, yeah, the art art nouveau ish. It would be something
And instead it's this weird thing
designed by
by Jacob Epstein who was who was one of the kind of you know modernist sculptures and it looks just kind of
totally unosca wildish
and and
My wife said to me. I wonder why he designed it that way and I said
Because it was his job. He was a modernist sculptor
and and he had to create things that are kind of ugly and and because
Ugly vacation was his mission
It's been incredible. You're like professional
Ugly fires like let's just make everything terrible. That's your job because if you've read
You probably haven't that weird science fiction book that
CS Lewis wrote a science fiction trilogy
and
The third book in the trilogy is called that hideous strength and and there's a there's a section on this where
The guy who wants to progress up the
Up the ladder
He wants to join the inner circle of the of the people who make the dissit
You know, he wants to join the cabal basically
And and part of this this process of his if his training process is to become
Is to go into this room where the symmetry is all wrong and and where the eye is forced to kind of
Deal with these jarring
It's the opposite of the golden mean. It's the opposite. It's it's the opposite of symmetry is opposite
We we all understand what beauty looks like and if you can surround
Beauty loving people with ugliness
It lowers the spirits. It weakens the the the
The power to resist and that's what's going on. It's been going for years
I'm a scary
um
I do hope that our conversation
Doesn't mean that i'm going to get banned from going to russia because oh, I doubt it
I do love it. I I I just
And I want to I want to learn the language
I'm but I'm gonna have to find a way of doing it that's not on dueling there because I that didn't work for me
It's a very it's a it's a very difficult one to tackle, but I'm sure with uh persistence with persistence
Yeah, well, I'm very sorry for what's happened to you and and your your partner and your and your boy. I mean, yeah
How's how is he coping without russia?
You know, I he obviously he left a lot of things behind. Um, but
He's a young lad who likes cheese pizza. How does the United States? Is he's uh, he is eight years old
Don't let Riley. Don't let him eat american junk food all the time
I know food is so bad. I know it's actually it's terrible. It's terrible
Uh, we're not planning on staying in the United States for much longer. So we're just where are you gonna go?
Um, we the right now our tentative plan is to actually go to central europe
I have some friends there and they have a nice little village
Outpost and garden slash farm
So we might hang out there for a bit until we get our bearings and then I don't know
I mean, we're still looking for something that will be a little bit more long term, but
Uh, we just really miss, you know, we miss nature. We miss the countryside
We miss the simplicity and you can find that in a lot of places. Obviously it was
Russia has lots of room for that kind of living. It certainly does
You can you can find it. You can find it almost anywhere. So
no
Well, good luck and and thank you for um
You've been waiting a long time to come on the podcast. I've been meaning to have you for some time and say
No, I mean, thank you so much for the invite. It's really great to talk and um,
Honestly, I I hope you do get back to russia because like I said, it's it's sort of beautiful incredible country
I mean, it's it's a lot to take in a lot of good a lot of bad
But um and anyone listening try to get to russia. It's a it's a really it's an experience
Um, now where can people find you?
I mean, I don't mean as as into knocking your door directly. I mean, where can they read you?
Yeah, uh, I mean, I'm basically just on substack
Unfortunately now that they're uh complying with all these crazy digital id laws
I don't know what I'm gonna do. But yeah, I'm on substack edwardslawsquad.substack.com
I'm also on telegram, but I rarely post but you can find me on telegram too
So, yeah
Great. Thank you very much. And everyone else if you enjoyed this, um, uh, if you're the fsb
I'm sorry if I if I upset you I please let me come back
I do not like
um
Uh, yeah
Please do consider becoming a paid subscriber. Um, this is my this is my my living. Um, and although
Substack will do everything in its power to stop you becoming a paid subscriber. It seems to me. Um, and um
Support my sponsors. Um, buy me a coffee. That still works that that works buy my books come to my events
Thank you for being a listener and thank you again. Um, roiley wagerman
Aka edward stuff squat stuff squat. Thank you. Not squat
Thank you