WEBVTT 00:27.640 --> 04:50.240 There is a network and all of crypto that I personally 04:50.800 --> 04:58.420 love the most and that is Monero because more than it's technology it's community and I have here 04:58.420 --> 05:04.880 with me Mr. X and Tuxedo of Cake Wallet to talk about what's been going on with Monero. There's 05:04.880 --> 05:10.980 a lot of fun happening within Monero and it's led me to the conclusion that there's been an 05:10.980 --> 05:17.160 orchestrated attack against Monero. So I want to welcome Tuxedo and Mr. X. How are you guys 05:17.160 --> 05:26.620 doing today? Doing great thanks for having me. So Mr. X as you know is my partner at the Crypto 05:26.620 --> 05:32.200 Vigilante and Tuxedo works with Cake Wallet. What's your position with Cake Wallet? What do you do 05:32.200 --> 05:39.940 with Cake Wallet? I'm kind of a designer developer. I help a lot with UI design, designing like the 05:39.940 --> 05:44.960 interface for new features and then I do a little bit of infrastructure management here and 05:44.960 --> 05:51.880 there and a little bit of development but mostly involved with designing. Awesome. So 05:52.960 --> 05:56.580 given that there's a lot of people asking questions as to what's happening with Monero, 05:56.780 --> 06:02.500 could you Tuxedo, could you please take us through a brief synopsis as to what has happened 06:02.500 --> 06:09.120 with Monero, with Cubic and everything that they're claiming to have accomplished of a 51% 06:09.120 --> 06:20.380 attack, which really is not? Yeah, so there's this chain, Cubic, and they had a lot of talk 06:20.380 --> 06:24.860 a couple months ago. Some people picked it up. A lot of people ignored it. Some people purposefully 06:24.860 --> 06:28.100 ignored it because they could see early on that they just wanted attention. 06:29.640 --> 06:32.800 And then somewhere along the line they decided they were going to start 06:33.490 --> 06:40.260 kind of mining Monero at certain times, depending on what they want to do with their network. 06:41.880 --> 06:47.120 But recently, a couple days ago, I think it was coming into August 11th, so August 10th, 06:47.140 --> 06:55.360 very late at night, they claimed that they successfully executed over 51% of the total 06:55.360 --> 07:04.500 network hash rate on Monero, which we can easily verify is not true. They are a concerning force, 07:04.600 --> 07:09.980 I would say. They do have a decent amount of hash rate, which at peak times did look like it got 07:09.980 --> 07:15.260 between 35% and 40%. It's hard to tell exactly because they aren't giving us really truthful 07:15.760 --> 07:20.300 numbers on their part on their own hash rate. And then, of course, the total network hash rate. 07:21.440 --> 07:26.260 But they have had enough hash rate that's been a concern because they have been able to screw with 07:26.260 --> 07:31.880 the network a certain amount. And we have seen a couple reasonably deep reorgs. We saw a couple 07:31.880 --> 07:37.000 six block reorgs and we saw a single seven block reorg, which is definitely not ideal, 07:37.000 --> 07:45.380 but their claims are false on 51% attack. They did not actually get that high of a hash rate. 07:45.380 --> 07:52.280 And so because of that, they couldn't do anything seriously damaging like fork the chain or do 07:52.960 --> 07:59.140 double spend attacks. So that's kind of a brief overview of what happened. I guess over the 07:59.140 --> 08:04.920 past couple of days. So do these reorgs do they affect Monero at all? Because 08:04.920 --> 08:08.340 in conversations with Mr. X, and maybe Mr. X can answer this, 08:09.320 --> 08:14.460 there is Monero has almost like a security measure of 10 blocks of time where we have 08:14.460 --> 08:19.500 to wait around 20 minutes to process another transaction from your wallet, which is almost 08:19.500 --> 08:25.540 like a feature of security. And since they were not able to go beyond that 10 block 08:27.100 --> 08:32.320 a space and time, I guess the situation wasn't as serious as it could have been. 08:33.180 --> 08:36.620 Mr. X, maybe you can explain more about that or Tuxedo? 08:37.520 --> 08:43.140 Yeah, I mean, the bad part would be is if they did actually get 51% and they were able to 08:43.140 --> 08:47.920 do reorgs larger than 10 blocks, because then I could actually screw with people spending their XMR. 08:48.660 --> 08:52.820 Now they still can screw with the network doing smaller reorgs. So for example, 08:53.000 --> 08:59.680 if you had sent a transaction in blocks that were then got reorg to their empty blocks that 08:59.680 --> 09:03.640 they were mining, your transaction would end back in the mem pool as my understanding. 09:04.840 --> 09:10.580 And if you are a service that does only accept a few comps, if you wait only a few 09:10.580 --> 09:14.020 confirmations before giving out a product or giving out whatever it is you do, 09:14.540 --> 09:20.440 that could have affected you potentially there. But if you're using Monero as it's been 09:20.440 --> 09:24.880 specced out as it's intended, yes, you are correct. That is why there is a 10 block lock 09:24.880 --> 09:29.440 for exactly reasons like this. There is 10 blocks until you are able to spend the 09:29.440 --> 09:33.520 outputs again. So if I send you some XMR, you have to wait 10 blocks before you can 09:33.520 --> 09:43.240 actually spend that again for this very reason. Okay. So given that they were able to achieve up 09:43.240 --> 09:47.160 to a seven block reorg, is there a concern that they could go further? 09:49.140 --> 09:54.240 Yeah, there is concern that they could go further for sure, depending on what kind of 09:54.240 --> 09:59.640 improved incentives they can provide for mining on cubic. To me, it doesn't look like they've 09:59.640 --> 10:06.620 actually managed to take that much existing hash rate from Monero, but they have got a lot of new 10:06.620 --> 10:12.460 hash rate in that has been adding up quite a lot over the past several weeks, I would say. 10:13.320 --> 10:17.820 And depending on what happens, they do have a chance that they could potentially pull even more 10:17.820 --> 10:28.240 in. But I will also say that Cubics' reward emission is having, to my understanding, they 10:29.960 --> 10:38.380 will be less profitable. Okay. And will it still be more profitable than mining Monero 10:39.200 --> 10:44.980 even after the halving? Yeah, it will be just because you're getting that cubic reward as well, 10:45.560 --> 10:52.420 but it won't be as profitable as it is now unless the coin, unless it pumps a lot, and then it 10:52.420 --> 10:56.960 could potentially make up for it. But I don't necessarily see that happening. It has pumped 10:56.960 --> 11:02.580 a good amount over the past month because of this media attention that they've been working at. 11:03.660 --> 11:09.420 But they'll have a lot to make up for that halving. So I was having a conversation with Mr. X yesterday, 11:09.640 --> 11:15.580 and I said, hey, why don't people just mine cubic and with the proceeds buy more Monero? 11:18.660 --> 11:24.520 And then he told me that Arctic Mine came up with that as a possible option that people 11:24.520 --> 11:30.940 have in the market. But then again, it's like, well, then you're still kind of aiding a pool that 11:30.940 --> 11:37.780 could cause harm to the network. Yeah, it's kind of a double-edged sword because it's like, yeah, 11:37.900 --> 11:42.180 you'll improve the price of Monero potentially. But then just immediately you're dumping the 11:42.180 --> 11:47.280 cubic coin, which is de-incentivizing their price and their profitability and you're 11:47.280 --> 11:50.940 bumping up Monero. But at the same time, you're giving them hash rate, which then 11:50.940 --> 11:56.680 can bring to that concern of could they actually get to 51%. So it's kind of an interesting idea. 11:56.840 --> 12:02.160 And I could see it being beneficial as long as the hash rate does remain under a certain amount. 12:02.240 --> 12:08.280 But we can see even though they haven't 51%, they haven't gotten there. They've gotten around 36%, 12:08.280 --> 12:13.820 maybe 40%. It's hard to tell exactly. Even then they're still able to screw with the network 12:13.820 --> 12:18.640 a little bit and cause a lot of concern. Like once again, it's not the end of the world, 12:18.640 --> 12:24.720 what they're saying, what their claims are online is largely false. There's this image that's been 12:24.720 --> 12:31.820 going around that is showing 2.8 gigahash a second on their pool and then like 5.3 gigahash total 12:31.820 --> 12:40.520 network hash rate and then 52% of the total network hash. But what we know is if we actually 12:40.520 --> 12:46.800 take a look at miningpoolstats.stream, which is a good reliable website that they just check 12:46.800 --> 12:51.920 public APIs that these pools provide, and they can look into their hash rate and see 12:51.920 --> 12:57.120 details and create charts on like how much hash rates gone over like the past week. 12:57.640 --> 13:02.420 If we actually take a look over the past seven days of history, what we see is that 13:03.120 --> 13:09.800 pool mining has not gone below like alternative to cubic, all the other pools together has not 13:09.800 --> 13:15.880 gone below 3.7 gigahash. And to actually 51%, of course, it's not that you take the existing 13:15.880 --> 13:20.480 hash rate, cut it in half, and then do that. You have to literally double the entire network's 13:20.480 --> 13:27.200 hash rate. And so if cubic actually did 51%, they would have had to match that and then add a 13:27.200 --> 13:31.620 little bit to it. And we didn't see that happening. We saw them get up to assuming their 13:31.620 --> 13:37.840 numbers are correct. I have reason to believe that they might be lying given what they're 13:37.840 --> 13:43.740 claiming so far. But with their number of 2.8 gigahash, they're still at least missing 13:43.740 --> 13:47.720 at least 1 gigahash. I think they're probably missing at least a couple gigahash, which is a 13:47.720 --> 13:52.800 lot. That's a lot more to add, and that costs a lot of money. So yeah, they're concerning 13:54.000 --> 13:59.700 to a degree. And yeah, they've gotten a good amount of hash, but they're lying. And I kind 13:59.700 --> 14:04.780 of think the reason they're doing this is, I mean, there's a lot of speculation. We don't 14:04.780 --> 14:08.880 know exactly the reason. But I think part of the reason they're lying right now is that 14:08.880 --> 14:15.540 by doing this right now and taking advantage of this situation to try and lie about their 51% 14:15.540 --> 14:21.120 attack, they can actually make it easier to do a real 51% attack in the future. Because by spreading 14:21.120 --> 14:26.160 all this fud and all this propaganda, they're actually managed to drive the price down of 14:26.160 --> 14:30.420 Monero a little bit. Well, I wouldn't say a little bit, actually a good amount. Monero's down, 14:30.500 --> 14:35.480 I think 10% over the past seven days. And by doing that, they're actually making it easier 14:35.480 --> 14:40.460 for them to 51% attack if they wanted to. Because if the price of Monero keeps falling, 14:41.240 --> 14:47.280 like miners who mine on the existing pools, they might just drop out. And it's not that the 14:47.280 --> 14:53.380 hash rates tied directly to the price. But Monero isn't, it's reasonably profitable, 14:53.380 --> 14:59.040 but if it falls back to 200, it'll lose a lot of profitability. And some of these miners 14:59.040 --> 15:01.720 might drop out. And that's just going to make it even easier for them. So I think that's 15:01.720 --> 15:06.640 partially why they're doing this push and this lie right now. Ultimately, why cubic is doing this? 15:07.020 --> 15:10.040 I don't really know. I think you guys probably have some interesting theories, 15:10.640 --> 15:15.780 maybe coordinated attack. It might just be a disenfranchised individual who wants to pump 15:15.780 --> 15:20.720 their shitcoin and make some money. Don't really know. But one of the things that they are 15:20.720 --> 15:27.880 using is that they managed to mine 51 blocks within this arbitrary 100 block period. And 15:27.880 --> 15:33.480 they're using that to say that we got a 51% attack. But really, that was kind of luck. Like, 15:33.560 --> 15:38.100 you're able to do that because of how the distribution works. You're able to do that with luck 15:38.100 --> 15:43.920 with around like 30 to 40% of hash rate. That's not totally unreasonable. They got lucky, sure. 15:44.540 --> 15:48.900 But just because they got 51 out of 100 blocks for this arbitrary period of time, 15:48.900 --> 15:53.820 that does not mean that they actually 51%ed the total hash rate of the network. 15:54.520 --> 15:59.920 So one of the best things that the Monero community has always had going for itself is the 15:59.920 --> 16:07.140 culture of honesty that you guys have always fostered. And that's very rare in crypto because 16:07.140 --> 16:13.780 everyone is ready to show you why their network is the best. Whereas the Monero person, it's 16:13.780 --> 16:18.740 almost in their adherence to the falsethos, they're more ready to tell you what could 16:18.740 --> 16:27.560 possibly go wrong in the future. And it's a very special culture. And because of that culture, 16:28.320 --> 16:36.100 you guys, the audience can see how tuxedo is so all candid and honest. But that is a virtue that 16:36.100 --> 16:41.100 the Monero community has. And I just wanted to point that out that even in this conversation, 16:41.360 --> 16:46.180 the way you've expressed yourself and talked about it, that's really like what makes Monero 16:46.180 --> 16:54.200 powerful, in my opinion, is that there's a notion of trust and a reverence for the falsethos. 16:55.200 --> 17:01.740 So that's what makes me love Monero is really the culture, that mindset. 17:04.000 --> 17:09.120 And the first thing that comes to mind is, and you mentioned that we could have various 17:11.780 --> 17:19.680 theories about this, but do you know who funded cubic? Who's behind it? What entities? I've tried 17:19.680 --> 17:24.900 to do research on this. I really couldn't find anything. I even went on CrunchBase and tried 17:24.900 --> 17:30.760 to figure out who these guys were. Who was funding this? Where did it come from? I didn't have any 17:30.760 --> 17:37.240 luck. Do you, Mr. X, or do you tuxedo? Do you guys have an idea of where cubic comes from? 17:39.420 --> 17:44.000 Mr. X has any information. I'd love to hear what he has to say. I did see some information. 17:44.200 --> 17:50.420 I think some of it wasn't true that there was potentially some US-Israeli joint venture funding 17:51.060 --> 17:56.960 that I guess somebody managed to get out of Grock. But I haven't confirmed that claim. I don't 17:56.960 --> 18:01.040 know how much of that is actually true. But beyond that, I haven't really looked into their 18:01.040 --> 18:04.700 funding that much. But it would be very interesting to actually dig a little deeper 18:04.700 --> 18:08.960 and find out. But if Mr. X has any info on that, I'd love to hear what he has to say. 18:10.260 --> 18:15.700 Yeah. I don't really have anything else. Like you mentioned, I did see that AI-generated theory 18:15.700 --> 18:21.100 with the Israeli firms and stuff, but that was, I don't know if that, I didn't see any evidence 18:21.100 --> 18:24.960 of it. It was just some rumor on Twitter or something, I think. 18:27.320 --> 18:31.420 So what's strange is that this happens right at the time where we see a lot of the listings 18:31.420 --> 18:36.580 of Monero. Maxi, there's a bunch of like four or five different exchanges that have recently 18:36.580 --> 18:41.520 delisted Monero. Or actually, no, they withheld withdrawals. They haven't delisted it completely, 18:41.600 --> 18:46.320 but they withheld withdrawals. What's going on there? Do you guys have an idea of what's going 18:46.320 --> 18:51.260 on there? They're withholding withdrawals of Monero from many exchanges. 18:51.900 --> 18:56.280 Yeah. I actually noticed this on another exchange, and this was over a week ago, 18:56.280 --> 19:02.440 actually, when there was first some of these headlines about the upcoming, or I guess, 19:02.840 --> 19:07.640 back when Cubic was threatening the 51% attack and saying that they would, I think, was back. 19:08.060 --> 19:12.200 And they said on August 2nd, we will execute the 51% attack. And then they 19:12.200 --> 19:17.760 like expanded their window to like the whole month of August, I think. But back then there was, 19:18.180 --> 19:23.380 I noticed at least one exchange that was not allowing deposits or withdrawals of Monero 19:23.380 --> 19:29.060 being said due to recent news headlines or something. And there was a minor exchange, 19:29.320 --> 19:35.180 a safe trade, I believe, but which is not very well known. I think they have, 19:35.220 --> 19:38.800 they have other small cap coins, or they have them tarry. Actually, they were one of the 19:38.800 --> 19:45.640 early ones to list tarry, which is how I was aware of them. But as far as large exchanges, 19:45.880 --> 19:50.780 to my knowledge, I think Kraken had a brief outage. And then, but there as last I checked 19:50.780 --> 19:54.980 earlier today, they're still online, fully operational with Monero deposits and withdrawals. 19:55.940 --> 19:59.920 And then as far as other exchanges, I did notice there were some other ones that did have some 20:00.640 --> 20:04.120 outages. Tuxedo, you probably have more details on that. 20:05.920 --> 20:11.260 No, I mean, I kind of, I kind of noticed the same thing. Yeah, Kraken's the one that like, 20:11.500 --> 20:14.920 and this is kind of how I know Kraken's more legit is that they're, they're really good 20:14.920 --> 20:21.240 about this. They, I checked multiple times during this whole thing, and you could deposit and withdraw, 20:21.420 --> 20:26.220 but they were taking the proper precautions and requiring 10 confirmations, which is totally fine. 20:26.720 --> 20:31.760 But there was a lot of exchanges that did disable deposits and withdrawals, to my knowledge, 20:31.860 --> 20:36.400 altogether. And, you know, you could say maybe that's out of safety, but 20:37.240 --> 20:42.440 like withdrawals makes a lot less sense than deposits, disabling deposits, or at least making 20:42.440 --> 20:47.580 them require full 10 confirmations makes total sense. Disabling withdrawals is a little more 20:47.580 --> 20:54.060 questionable. Now, maybe they actually were convinced that cubic was going to do a 51%. And in that, 20:54.060 --> 20:59.780 in that sense, yeah, you might, you might do that to try and prevent people from moving funds during 20:59.780 --> 21:05.560 like a time that might be questionable. But it is interesting that by doing that, 21:05.760 --> 21:12.040 they're basically forcing people to only sell. I mean, people could buy if they wanted to, 21:12.040 --> 21:17.280 but during this time, if people wanted to withdraw due to like fear of like having their 21:17.280 --> 21:21.120 money on the exchange, they can't do that. They get rid of it, they have to just sell it. 21:21.740 --> 21:26.600 And we've seen this happen in the past with like, especially Binance, Binance was notorious for 21:27.860 --> 21:31.860 basically not holding any money out at any time. And eventually, when they decide they're going 21:31.860 --> 21:37.840 to remove it, they disabled withdrawals incredibly quickly, forcing people to sell 21:37.840 --> 21:41.160 because people wanted to get their coin off of Binance because they're going to remove it. 21:41.160 --> 21:45.280 And then they disabled withdrawals for, I think, weeks on end, forcing people to sell, 21:45.700 --> 21:51.440 basically causing a false price movement, essentially. 21:52.800 --> 21:57.580 At the same time, guys, we see that there's a lot of energy being put in by 21:58.380 --> 22:07.120 some of the top BTC developers around that work with BitVM, promoting the idea that 22:07.120 --> 22:12.040 the Lightning Network is more private than Monero, to the point that just like a week or two ago, 22:12.100 --> 22:17.820 we had a debate on Monero Talk. And I thought that that was kind of strange that so much emphasis 22:17.820 --> 22:25.720 is going on trying to, it's almost like the BTC crowd really feels as if, and this 22:25.720 --> 22:31.180 not just any BTC crowd, it's the BTC crowd that is heavily backed by venture capital, 22:31.820 --> 22:36.420 they feel threatened by Monero. The fact that they feel like it's important for them to send 22:36.420 --> 22:44.640 out developers like SuperTestnet to debate, to make that claim, which is ludicrous that 22:44.640 --> 22:50.160 the Lightning Network is more private than Monero, it's ridiculous. So that is really, 22:50.200 --> 22:56.560 that's really eye-opening, right? It makes me question motives and what's really going on here. 22:56.840 --> 23:02.120 And at the same time, we have a character like Nick Fuentes going out on the national stage 23:03.000 --> 23:09.000 who now he has a huge audience, a huge following. I'd say that he's probably 23:11.320 --> 23:18.440 probably the most significant figure in politics right now in general. And he, 23:21.060 --> 23:25.800 he's shilling Monero to his audience. And I think he's going to continue to 23:25.800 --> 23:31.240 shill Monero to his audience because he sees value in Monero. And he himself talked about how 23:32.200 --> 23:35.860 Monero has been attacked and is being attacked. So, 23:37.460 --> 23:41.960 so many things are just happening. A lot of energy is moving around Monero. 23:43.660 --> 23:48.760 And do you guys, what do you guys think? Do you guys suspect that this is part of like a 23:48.760 --> 23:53.620 coordinated effort to try to hurt the network? Do you guys, is that something, is that a gut 23:53.620 --> 23:58.920 feeling that you guys have as well? Or, or is this all just happenstance coincidences? 24:00.000 --> 24:06.520 I mean, we, we know that there's been, and I, if you follow body and our guest, 24:06.760 --> 24:12.460 he's done tons of deep dives. He's got so much useful information. He's done a lot of investigation 24:12.460 --> 24:18.160 into the legitimate price suppression of Monero by exchanges, like I mentioned, 24:18.300 --> 24:24.120 like Binance. So we know there has legitimately been some coordinated attacks against Monero 24:24.120 --> 24:28.140 to try and make it less interesting. Because if they can just keep suppressing 24:28.140 --> 24:33.780 the price, they can prevent it from like pumping during these bull runs. And if they can get people 24:33.780 --> 24:38.300 like for instance, this whole cubic thing, like if you look at it by itself, it might just look like 24:38.300 --> 24:43.600 some individual trying to make a quick buck or screw with the community. But if you take a broader 24:43.600 --> 24:47.760 look at things and you see all these other things going on, it does start to paint a larger picture 24:47.760 --> 24:52.620 that there might be some coordination going on. It might be a more orchestrated attack 24:52.620 --> 24:59.300 than what we initially would realize, attacking basically the trust in the network, attacking 24:59.300 --> 25:06.440 the price at the same time, basically trying to maybe not destroy it outright, but kind of shun 25:06.440 --> 25:11.700 it out of the limelight, right? Try to put so much fear out there that people suddenly become 25:11.700 --> 25:16.900 less interested in it and kind of just stick it in a corner over here to try and keep it from 25:16.900 --> 25:21.460 becoming too popular. And I think in a lot of ways they've been successful about that. 25:21.460 --> 25:26.420 I think in some ways they haven't been. And I think it really went against that when we saw 25:26.420 --> 25:34.740 that BTC hacker who attempted to swap what I believe was around $300 million, I think he 25:34.740 --> 25:39.780 only got around $30 million. He tried to swap that into Minero and suddenly the price absolutely 25:39.780 --> 25:44.040 skyrocketed and Minero got more media attention than it ever had in I think the last couple 25:44.040 --> 25:49.480 years. So I think they want to prevent that from happening. So if they can't 25:49.480 --> 25:52.940 suppress the price, they're going to now go after the network and try to 25:53.700 --> 25:57.680 have people lose faith in the network, lose trust in the network. Because if they can convince, 25:57.820 --> 26:01.380 like you were saying, they can convince people that lightning is more private than Minero, 26:01.760 --> 26:05.440 then you won't see something like this happen again, where people are going to swap 26:05.940 --> 26:11.740 tons of Bitcoin into Minero for safekeeping or for hiding funds or doesn't have to be 26:11.740 --> 26:17.440 malicious. But if they can spread enough propaganda and FUD, they might prevent that 26:17.440 --> 26:22.140 from happening in the end. And we've seen this in the past with Binance holding paper 26:22.140 --> 26:27.360 with Minero and basically selling and shorting Minero and buying at a certain times and selling 26:27.360 --> 26:32.280 it stuff like that. So is it actually coordinated? It's hard to fully know. Hopefully more 26:32.280 --> 26:37.040 information will come out about Cubic and where their actual funding is. We have some hints, 26:37.140 --> 26:42.380 we don't fully know. But it's very possible because the state doesn't like Minero. It 26:42.380 --> 26:45.680 goes against everything they want to do. They're okay with Bitcoin because if 26:45.680 --> 26:51.500 they're traceable, as we know this, and even cryptos like Ethereum and Bitcoin that are 26:51.500 --> 26:56.560 initially traceable, that have some privacy tools, they've gone off of those privacy tools 26:56.560 --> 27:00.240 individually. Now, it's going to be a lot harder to go after Minero. But if they're 27:00.240 --> 27:04.700 going to do it, some of these things they're doing is having a little bit of effect. 27:05.420 --> 27:08.040 And I'd love to hear from Mr. X if he wants to add to that. 27:08.860 --> 27:12.560 Well, yeah, a lot of these, the chain of events, including like the trade ogre 27:12.560 --> 27:18.240 going down mysteriously for, I guess, what's been more than a couple weeks now, I think, 27:18.460 --> 27:23.760 because it was late July when it went down without any explanation. Officially, 27:24.420 --> 27:30.980 lots of rumors though. But some people are thinking that maybe they're dumping coins or 27:30.980 --> 27:42.200 maybe there was a government seizure action that occurred. But I did see, in regards to the 27:42.200 --> 27:48.740 Intel blockchain analytics firm had mapped out what they believe to be the trade ogre wallets, 27:49.260 --> 27:54.200 for obviously the transparent surveillance coins, but all the privacy coins, those are all, 27:54.340 --> 27:59.240 we don't really know what's going on with those. And I did hear rumors about WoWNero being dumped, 27:59.580 --> 28:03.340 or I mean it was dumped, I guess, shortly after that happened. But some people are 28:03.340 --> 28:12.840 saying that maybe they sold their, the trade ogre operators may have dumped their holdings, 28:13.180 --> 28:17.800 their customer holdings in that action potentially. So there's definitely a lot of rumors 28:18.580 --> 28:26.540 going around about all this stuff. But yeah, I agree. The kind of all these events kind of 28:26.540 --> 28:30.600 lining up and happening around the same time, attacking the network itself and then attacking 28:31.030 --> 28:39.340 the privacy and then also you have the samurai wallet developers coming to this recent plea, 28:39.980 --> 28:45.680 guilty plea agreement there, which is not good for, even though it doesn't really carry precedent, 28:45.880 --> 28:51.220 I guess, because it wasn't adjudicated by the judge, but it was rather just this plea agreement 28:51.220 --> 28:58.200 that still is not good because it's just kind of putting that idea out there that these 28:58.200 --> 29:04.100 software developers who simply make peer-to-peer, self-custody cash, 29:06.240 --> 29:13.140 any privacy preserving projects are viewed as suspicious. So even though I guess the one thing 29:13.140 --> 29:19.780 there is that they did make profit off of the, and it was more of a centralized protocol 29:19.780 --> 29:24.040 rather than Monero, which is completely decentralized and there's no profit 29:24.560 --> 29:30.000 that's made by the developers. But in any case, though, I think just that idea that 29:30.000 --> 29:35.480 privacy is somehow tainted in a bad thing rather than a fundamental human right is definitely, 29:36.240 --> 29:42.680 I think, part of the state's attack against Monero in a more roundabout way, I guess, 29:43.160 --> 29:48.280 even though, but then, of course, we have obviously with this cubic, 29:49.020 --> 29:54.740 yeah, there's definitely a lot of speculation of, is that like a government that's behind that, 29:54.980 --> 29:59.800 or where's the funding coming from? But that's definitely another angle of attack, 29:59.840 --> 30:07.000 which is the network itself. So my question is, an entity with more resources, couldn't they 30:07.000 --> 30:13.180 spin up more GPUs and CPUs and cause even a bigger attack, the way that cubic is showing 30:13.180 --> 30:19.960 them that it is possible? Yeah, potentially. And that's one of the, I think, one of the good 30:19.960 --> 30:25.180 things that actually comes out of this. Because ultimately, if cubic can't actually get to a 30:25.180 --> 30:34.520 51%, they kind of have helped us in a way like these attacks on Monero, these are not new. We 30:34.520 --> 30:40.220 have these things happen quite often, actually. But I don't know if you remember last year, 30:40.220 --> 30:45.180 there was a transaction spam attack, which was maybe a black marble attack, we don't really know. 30:45.240 --> 30:49.940 But there was a very, very large amount of transactions that occurred very short period of 30:49.940 --> 30:57.780 time for like very, very low fee. And there were some bugs discovered with how fee calculation 30:57.780 --> 31:02.040 was handled and ended up getting fixed. So ultimately, it did improve the resiliency. 31:03.120 --> 31:08.540 I'm hoping that we see that happen with cubic as well. We already have people like Luke 31:08.540 --> 31:14.020 Parker, who's one of the more prominent Monero developers. He's the lead developer of Sorai. 31:14.840 --> 31:20.100 But he's done a lot of work for Monero on the past. And he opened a kind of a meta issue 31:20.100 --> 31:26.440 discussing potential ways that we can make the network more resilient to a 51% attack 31:26.440 --> 31:31.300 if that were to happen, like using stuff like a finality layer or allowing GPU mining, 31:31.400 --> 31:35.300 stuff like that. But that is one of the concerns that does come up from this, 31:35.300 --> 31:41.560 is that in reality, Monero's hash rate is relatively low, and it is relatively inexpensive 31:43.100 --> 31:48.340 for an individual or like especially like the state, right? So like an organization like 31:48.340 --> 31:54.060 Cubic is one thing, but then the state, it is relatively inexpensive if they wanted to 31:54.060 --> 31:59.380 screw with the network or if they even wanted to try to go for 51%, they could undoubtedly 31:59.380 --> 32:04.420 do it if they really wanted to. And then that raises the question of well, what do we do 32:04.960 --> 32:09.400 to deal with that? And one of the things that people have been doing is promoting mining, 32:10.420 --> 32:14.700 trying to get people to use a peer to pool, which is basically a decentralized pool and then 32:14.700 --> 32:19.920 renting hash rate, which all these things help, all these things help, sure. But there's probably 32:19.920 --> 32:26.180 something else that we can do to further make it resilient, like maybe making fees higher to 32:26.960 --> 32:32.260 incentivize miners to use Monero instead of going to Cubic. And then maybe using some 32:32.260 --> 32:36.960 of these things that Luke Parker brought up, like the finality layer, I think that was one that was 32:36.960 --> 32:41.520 prominently talked about in one of the recent Monero Topia episodes. So there are some things that 32:41.520 --> 32:46.200 are being investigated and looked at to try and make this better. Like the one thing that you 32:46.200 --> 32:51.200 can do right now, if you're just someone who's like looking into this conversation is just 32:51.200 --> 32:55.660 if you've got a computer sitting around, especially if it's a reasonably powerful one, 32:55.680 --> 33:00.320 like a gaming computer, just start mining on peer to pool, assuming that your electricity 33:00.320 --> 33:05.700 isn't too expensive, start mining peer to pool, and you'll get some KYC-free Monero. It's not like 33:05.700 --> 33:09.440 you're just spending money to put all this hash rate on the network. You're actually getting 33:09.440 --> 33:13.940 something back. Now, you may or may not make profit, but you are getting KYC-free Monero, 33:14.020 --> 33:21.940 which in my opinion is quite valuable. Yeah. So has there been any conversation of maybe, 33:23.480 --> 33:28.940 has anyone brought up the issue of that maybe random X was a bad idea and that 33:29.500 --> 33:34.280 Monero shouldn't have been ASIC resistant, shouldn't have gone that route? Because there are many, 33:34.820 --> 33:40.560 when we had the, when we moved into random X back then, a lot of people in Monero were, 33:41.300 --> 33:48.080 you know, did not want to go the ASIC resistant route. Has that come up in conversation? 33:49.920 --> 33:56.380 Yeah. That was one of the options that was raised on Luke's meta issue was the possibility 33:56.380 --> 34:01.920 of allowing ASICs are going to a different algorithm. But I think it carries, you know, 34:02.000 --> 34:05.220 some different issues, but it carries some similar issues in a way to where 34:06.340 --> 34:12.420 it can become very centralized very quickly. Ironically, one of the advantages of Monero's 34:12.420 --> 34:17.340 hash rate being low is that it is easier for you at home to make a difference. Now, obviously, 34:17.780 --> 34:23.060 having the hash rate be lower is, you know, ultimately could potentially be a problem, 34:23.060 --> 34:29.060 but it does allow you to make a difference because the best thing to mine Monero on is literally an 34:29.060 --> 34:33.700 AMD Ryzen consumer processor. So at home, you can actually make a reasonable difference. With 34:33.700 --> 34:37.660 Bitcoin, what we see is that you've got to spend $10,000 to make any meaningful 34:39.500 --> 34:43.600 hash rate because of the ASICs and the centralization that's become around that. 34:44.540 --> 34:50.080 So that has been discussed, but I'm sure Mr. X has something he can say on that as well. 34:51.240 --> 34:56.480 Well, yeah, I was going to say that that ASIC idea is on the list. If you look at Github on the 34:56.480 --> 35:02.420 Monero Project Research Lab section on Github there at the most recent, one of the most recent 35:02.420 --> 35:09.780 issues from Kaibor Nerve or Luke Parker is the, as a table with, as Tuxedo mentioned, 35:09.980 --> 35:14.100 the finality layer is the first one that was there. And then he also has several other 35:14.700 --> 35:21.400 solutions like including the ASIC proof of work. But as Tuxedo said, that is the problem with 35:21.400 --> 35:28.640 if Monero was to switch completely over to that then there would be a risk of that centralization. 35:28.940 --> 35:34.560 And then actually one of the things, if we go back a few years, I remember when they had the, 35:34.720 --> 35:40.960 I think it was the Bitmain, I can't remember was it, I forget what the name of the model 35:40.960 --> 35:45.040 was, but it was that so-called ASIC for Monero that has- 35:45.040 --> 35:46.660 The X5, right? The Miner X5? 35:47.120 --> 35:54.820 Yes, the Miner X5, that's the one. And it had a bunch of these powerful CPUs on it that 35:55.860 --> 36:01.180 gave, I forget how many kill hashes it was quite a bit, but it was pretty, 36:01.560 --> 36:06.860 at the time, I think they were selling it at loss actually, allegedly from what I heard. 36:06.860 --> 36:11.400 But the problem with that though, they actually mined with those devices secretly 36:11.400 --> 36:16.980 before they sold them. So they sold a bunch and people found dust inside the chips and 36:16.980 --> 36:22.040 stuff and how the improving that they had been used. And also it was pretty obvious too from the 36:22.040 --> 36:27.420 get the hash rate data that they were mining with those devices before they sold them. 36:27.640 --> 36:31.500 So that is another risk that you can have some mining companies secretly 36:32.060 --> 36:35.320 mining or even if they were bright by the government they could use it to attack 36:35.320 --> 36:38.880 Minero. So I think that's definitely a risk if we were to switch to something like that. 36:40.880 --> 36:44.900 But another thing that I was just thinking of and I briefly discussed with Rafael was 36:45.500 --> 36:50.400 looking at Pirate Chain. I know it's kind of, at least in most of the Minero communities, 36:50.720 --> 36:55.600 kind of thinks of it as kind of not everybody, but there's some that kind of disregard it 36:55.600 --> 37:01.900 as kind of a joke, but not really serious. But I think the idea of the delegated proof 37:01.900 --> 37:08.800 of work, if we were to look into that more, if I know that they have notarized their blockchain 37:08.800 --> 37:15.740 data regular intervals on Komodo and then also on I think Litecoin as well. So in order to try to 37:17.980 --> 37:23.700 reorganize or do deep reorganizations past those intervals, I mean they would not be able 37:23.700 --> 37:28.040 to do it unless they were to overpower both of those other blockchains, hash power. So they'd 37:28.600 --> 37:33.800 attack or would actually have to attack all three networks simultaneously to override those 37:35.760 --> 37:41.920 transactions. So I was just wondering if that is another idea that maybe could be added to that. 37:42.460 --> 37:45.300 I mean of course, this is some of the probably best to ask 37:46.260 --> 37:50.180 proposed to Minero Research Lab. That's just another idea I thought of that might be 37:50.180 --> 37:57.800 worth looking at. Yeah, I think I guess one of the main, maybe not a concern, 37:57.800 --> 38:04.140 but one of the upsets of that would be similar to the suggestion like on the on Luke Parker's table, 38:04.140 --> 38:11.120 which was merge mining with Litecoin is that in a way you kind of become partially beholden to 38:11.120 --> 38:18.120 that network as well, even if there's added security. I know Minero wants to be survive on 38:18.120 --> 38:23.560 its own essentially, fully decentralized in its own network. So you could maybe get 38:23.560 --> 38:27.180 security from another network, but you're kind of partially becoming beholden to them as well. 38:27.180 --> 38:32.340 So it's, you know, has its own pros and cons. Well, yeah, I know Pyrochain, one of the things 38:32.340 --> 38:38.820 that they've talked about is that even if Komodo and Litecoin were both to become obsolete or no 38:38.820 --> 38:43.540 longer use, then that wouldn't cause Pyrochain to stop working. It would just, they would no 38:43.540 --> 38:48.320 longer use that have that added security. So they wouldn't have to attack those. It would 38:48.320 --> 38:53.920 just default to just using just I guess Pyrochain's proof of work itself. I think 38:53.920 --> 38:59.220 Equahash is what they use, I recall correctly, which is the same as what Zcash uses 38:59.900 --> 39:04.060 for their proof of work algorithm. But anyway, just an idea I thought might be 39:04.880 --> 39:11.500 worth looking at or looking into further. So it seems to me like the big issue here is 39:11.500 --> 39:20.340 financial incentives. And in crypto, the financial incentives can change overnight. 39:22.280 --> 39:30.040 I think that something as easy as a meme, you know, looking at Monero as a meme could 39:30.040 --> 39:38.780 drive up the price and help secure the network. So it really comes down to being creative. And 39:40.300 --> 39:48.400 it is concerning that maybe a state level actor could jump in and cause damage in the way that 39:48.400 --> 39:57.280 Cubic has. So my question is like, what's the timeline? So I see Kayaba Nerve is putting out 39:57.280 --> 40:05.820 these proposals. What is the process of going through these proposals? And how will the community 40:05.820 --> 40:12.060 come to a consensus in figuring out what to do next? How to mitigate any possible risk into the 40:12.060 --> 40:21.440 future? I imagine Mr. X can probably give a better answer than I can. But I know there has to be, 40:21.640 --> 40:25.640 my understanding is that there has to be a consensus with the core team. And if it is 40:25.640 --> 40:31.880 something that requires a hard fork, they'll have to plan that out. Either doing a different 40:31.880 --> 40:35.540 scheduled hard fork one sooner, if it's, you know, something that needs to be addressed 40:35.540 --> 40:39.760 earlier, or maybe doing it with the existing planned hard fork, if it's something that 40:39.760 --> 40:45.220 requires a hard fork. Yeah, from my understanding, a lot of these, I mean, 40:45.320 --> 40:53.080 people interested can just go on like Matrix or AirSeven or whatever to just share in the various 40:53.080 --> 41:00.140 chats, like jump in the Monero. There's official chats, I think, linked from the Monero official 41:00.140 --> 41:06.140 Monero website where people can jump into these actual discussions with the people that were 41:06.140 --> 41:12.500 mentioned, like Luke Parker and other members of the research lab or core team, you can jump in 41:12.500 --> 41:20.320 those conversations and share these ideas and discuss them. So when I read what the top dev 41:20.320 --> 41:26.320 at Cubic is saying, he's saying that he's actually helping the Monero community get ready for any 41:26.320 --> 41:33.060 would-be state-sponsored attack. What are your guys' thoughts about that? Could this guy be 41:33.060 --> 41:40.220 actually benevolent helping out the Monero community? Well, that would be a more plausible 41:40.220 --> 41:44.820 if they weren't just straight up lying about their statistics and what they're doing 41:44.820 --> 41:52.560 and causing all this fud. Ironically, he could end up being right if we end up doing something 41:52.560 --> 41:59.080 that greatly improves the 51% resistance. But I have a really hard time believing that, 41:59.080 --> 42:05.060 seeing what they were saying earlier on, they were saying a lot more threatening things. 42:05.540 --> 42:11.600 I don't have exact quotes, but I do distinctly remember them trying to come out as a threat 42:12.160 --> 42:15.820 in a way. And now they've kind of backtracked and they're like, oh, we're actually helping 42:15.820 --> 42:21.940 Monero. And I have a hard time believing that because of them lying about they're actually 42:21.940 --> 42:25.820 51%ing, because if they were actually going to help Monero, they wouldn't try to also 42:25.820 --> 42:31.760 drive the price down. And they also would be giving this hash rate to peer-to-pool. Instead of having 42:31.760 --> 42:37.940 their own pool, they would start giving a bunch of hash rate at peer-to-pool. Now, maybe they're, 42:38.000 --> 42:43.500 like you're saying, he's trying to help it to prepare us for a state attack. But once again, 42:43.980 --> 42:49.760 it doesn't make sense why he's lying about this 51%. There's no reason to do that. 42:49.840 --> 42:52.540 If he's actually trying to help Monero, there's no reason to lie about them 42:53.260 --> 42:58.660 51%ing, attacking it. The only reason I could think of doing that is once again to try and 42:59.620 --> 43:06.580 add distrust in Monero as a network into pump the Cubic coin and make Cubic mine even more 43:06.580 --> 43:12.920 profitable. And there's some other theories potentially like he's in bed, Cubic is in 43:12.920 --> 43:18.280 bed with some of these exchanges that delisted Monero. And the Cubic coin is on these exchanges 43:18.280 --> 43:21.720 that delisted Monero and maybe there's something going on where they're trying to fill a 43:21.720 --> 43:27.540 bunch of Monero shorts to make people money. I don't really know. But there's a lot of 43:27.540 --> 43:32.060 potential theories about why or what they're doing and why, but I have a really hard time 43:32.060 --> 43:35.960 believing that they're actually trying to help Monero just because of the fact of what all 43:35.960 --> 43:40.320 they're lying about. They've been lying about a lot of stuff, their hash rate, their 51% attack. 43:40.680 --> 43:44.100 And every time they do and then they get caught lying, they just kind of backtrack, 43:44.240 --> 43:48.040 like they're doing now. They're like, oh, the reason why we didn't actually do anything 43:48.040 --> 43:50.880 bad is because we're actually trying to help Monero. We don't want to hurt it. 43:51.160 --> 43:55.660 But in reality, they couldn't do anything bad because they didn't actually 51% it. 43:56.080 --> 43:59.120 So I just have a hard time believing that it's a little bit funny. 44:01.400 --> 44:10.320 So it makes me very happy that the culture of Monero is now something that doesn't seem 44:10.320 --> 44:19.360 will ever change. And that these newer generation of contributors have carried on the legacy of what 44:19.360 --> 44:24.780 it means to be part of this network of carrying on with that honesty. And just notice how you 44:24.780 --> 44:31.600 yourself looked for honesty as the litmus test as to like, can we trust it, right? 44:32.560 --> 44:38.560 And so, which is the complete opposite of what cubic is portraying, right? So it's a 44:38.560 --> 44:41.240 the culture is so important, you know, in all of this. 44:42.980 --> 44:46.720 Tuxedo, are you there? Okay, yeah, your screen froze for a second. 44:49.040 --> 44:55.820 We are about a month away from the Crypto Vigilante Summit, where we're going to talk about what 44:55.820 --> 45:01.480 matters most in crypto. And I'm pretty sure this topic is going to come up. And my question to 45:01.480 --> 45:06.040 you guys is like, what do you guys expect a month from now? How do you guys, what do you 45:06.040 --> 45:11.480 guys expect to be resolved or how will this evolve in the upcoming month? 45:14.360 --> 45:20.620 I'm hoping that cubic is less of a threat. Obviously, we don't really know what's going 45:20.620 --> 45:26.540 to happen. Once again, they have that halving on August 20th, that'll make mining cubic, 45:26.840 --> 45:33.180 you know, a lot a good amount less profitable. And then of course, it also depends on what 45:33.180 --> 45:37.180 the price of the token is. Apparently, they're going to attempt another attack 45:37.740 --> 45:43.860 Thursday or tomorrow, basically. So I'm ramping up some mining rigs to, you know, try and offset 45:43.860 --> 45:49.760 some of that. Because you got to remember that every hash rate that you add, they have to 45:49.760 --> 45:54.060 basically double that. So even if you're adding, maybe you think you're not adding that much, 45:54.080 --> 45:58.820 maybe you're adding like 10 kilo hash. Well, suddenly they have to have another extra 45:59.740 --> 46:04.380 20 kilo hash to basically make up for that. So every little bit 46:06.560 --> 46:10.760 matters. But if you want to actually make a decent difference, I would say 46:11.360 --> 46:17.840 rent some mining rigs. You can easily do this from, I think it's called miningrigrentals.com. 46:18.100 --> 46:22.120 You can get quite a lot of hash rate for cheap. So that's a decent way to put a dent 46:22.120 --> 46:24.800 in there. But if you have some hardware sitting around, you know, just use it. 46:25.580 --> 46:31.420 Mine, Peer to Pool, get paid, Seminero. But yeah, hopefully the situation will cool off a bit. 46:32.340 --> 46:37.460 It seems like they're going to try ramping up some more attacks. So I guess we'll have to see what 46:37.460 --> 46:44.020 happens. And so these attacks are going to be attempting the same, what they already did or 46:44.840 --> 46:52.580 what are they threatening to do? That's my understanding. I think they might be 46:52.580 --> 46:56.220 doing some more things to try and hide their hash rate a little bit. 46:56.920 --> 47:00.680 Some people are like basically spying in their discord. I'm not in there and they have a little 47:00.680 --> 47:05.960 more details as to what they're planning X. I'm not actually in there. But my understanding is 47:05.960 --> 47:11.980 that they're going to continue performing this attack, doing the selfish mining. And that's 47:11.980 --> 47:16.460 something I want to also mention. The reason why they are such a problem, like as we see 47:16.460 --> 47:21.200 right now, we do have some pools that have pretty large hash rate, which is not as ideal, 47:21.200 --> 47:27.780 but it's not as big of a deal. For instance, the top pool I think has around 29, 30% of the total 47:27.780 --> 47:32.620 hash rate, but it's a legit pool that's been around for a long time and they, to my knowledge, 47:32.660 --> 47:35.960 have never done any funny business. The reason why Cubic is able to do so much 47:35.960 --> 47:42.440 screwy stuff with just 35 to 40% hash rate is because of their selfish mining strategy. 47:43.020 --> 47:48.480 Basically, they're mining on their own. They're not mining in combination with these other 47:48.480 --> 47:53.980 people. They're kind of mining blocks on their own. And if they can come up with blocks sooner, 47:53.980 --> 47:59.540 then the other pools can. They can kind of stack them in a way in which they can 47:59.540 --> 48:04.000 deliver them to the network. And suddenly the network has to reorg because it sees that 48:04.000 --> 48:08.880 there were these valid blocks that were mined before the other pools did. And that's kind 48:08.880 --> 48:14.560 of what causes this whole issue with the reorgs is because they're going out of their way to 48:15.060 --> 48:19.740 mine in this selfish manner. So I imagine they're going to continue trying that. 48:20.340 --> 48:23.540 They might have something else up their sleeve. I've been seeing anything about that. I don't know 48:23.540 --> 48:27.580 if Mr. X has any extra information about what kind of attacks they might be planning. 48:27.880 --> 48:32.640 I saw a flood about empty blocks, but I think that might have just been because the mempool 48:32.640 --> 48:36.500 was empty because there was, oh, well, there just weren't any transactions at that time. 48:36.780 --> 48:40.540 So when some of them were found, but I did see people flooding about, oh, no, 48:40.540 --> 48:45.360 they're mining empty blocks. I'm a narrow and holding back people's transactions and stuff. 48:45.820 --> 48:53.540 I'm not sure that was entirely accurate. But yeah, I did see the six and seven reorgs. 48:53.740 --> 48:56.560 But as you mentioned earlier, they were below that 10 block 48:57.680 --> 49:02.640 lock time, which is there for a reason. So I'm not super worried about it. 49:02.960 --> 49:09.000 But I would say, yeah, like you mentioned, going up to August 20th, I would definitely be 49:09.000 --> 49:12.720 watching and like you mentioned, if they're threatening something tomorrow, 49:13.480 --> 49:19.220 yeah, just firing up some more Ryzen or whatever processors you might have available to help defend. 49:19.760 --> 49:24.740 And actually, this is interesting. And I should also mention to do that easily 49:24.740 --> 49:28.100 for people who might not be comfortable with command lines. 49:29.320 --> 49:33.440 There's a open source tool called, I'm not even sure how you pronounce it, 49:33.440 --> 49:41.580 if it's Goopax or gupax.io is the website. And it is a GUI for Mining Monero on a P2 pool 49:41.580 --> 49:48.520 using XMR or XM rig or mining software. And it does it pretty efficiently if you have 49:48.520 --> 49:53.500 the hardware for that. So I do recommend checking that out. 49:54.640 --> 49:59.380 Awesome. Well, we're going to put that in the description below, Mr. X, if you could please 49:59.380 --> 50:09.360 DM me the link to that. And again, how, what I really want to know is that how 50:09.360 --> 50:14.680 concerned are you guys with this whole cubic thing over Monero? Are you guys concerned at all 50:14.680 --> 50:22.520 or not really or what's going on? I mean, cubic themselves is a little bit concerning. 50:22.520 --> 50:29.420 But I think outside of cubic, just seeing this happen raises some bigger 50:30.280 --> 50:37.600 questions about how we can become more resilient. So cubic overall, they're a concern, 50:37.900 --> 50:42.640 but I'm nowhere close to saying, oh, it's over. They're going to destroy the network. 50:44.740 --> 50:52.220 This was bound to happen at some point. And so ultimately, I do strongly believe 50:52.220 --> 50:56.360 this will turn into something beneficial for Monero. Whatever cubic's purpose might be, 50:56.600 --> 51:00.300 I do believe this will turn into something beneficial. Because as you see, when attacks 51:00.300 --> 51:05.800 start happening, that's when, so to speak, the game gets together. But we see a lot of 51:06.600 --> 51:12.080 either previous developers or current developers start getting together, talking about solutions, 51:12.540 --> 51:17.320 how to improve the network, make it more resilient. So I do strongly believe that this 51:17.320 --> 51:21.200 this will be beneficial. Like the numbers they're getting to is definitely a little bit 51:21.200 --> 51:27.000 concerning. But like Mr. X was saying, I think the home stretch really is over the next week 51:27.500 --> 51:32.920 before that August 20th, because that having will significantly affect cubic's profitability. 51:33.500 --> 51:37.080 If I'm understanding that's the day they're going to do it, that's what I've heard. 51:37.980 --> 51:42.600 So they'll have a lot to make up with that in price if they want to maintain the same 51:42.600 --> 51:47.640 profitability. And just got to keep spreading the word about mining really. 51:48.200 --> 51:53.000 Yeah, it's not the most profitable thing right now. So it's kind of hard to get people on board 51:53.000 --> 51:57.660 because people, you know, they want to be able to make profit on it. And Monero mining isn't really 51:57.660 --> 52:03.280 profitable right now, unless you have like access to free electricity. And then, you know, 52:03.340 --> 52:08.160 totally is. So getting more people aware of the fact that it's actually really easy to 52:08.160 --> 52:12.700 mine, like Mr. X once again brought up goo packs. I use goo packs on several of my systems. 52:12.700 --> 52:17.140 It's a lot nicer than sending up all the terminal tools. It's very easy. It's like 52:17.680 --> 52:22.540 two clicks to set up. So if you're scared of doing it, don't be afraid. It's super easy. 52:23.100 --> 52:27.920 And you can run it on basically any system, Linux, macOS, or if you've got like a Windows gaming 52:27.920 --> 52:31.640 computer run around, that's the perfect thing you can use to mine Monero and your idle time. 52:32.480 --> 52:36.740 So kind of just getting the word out and then also dispelling the FUD too. I've been 52:36.740 --> 52:42.020 spending probably way too much time trying to do that. But dispelling the FUD when you see it, 52:42.020 --> 52:49.920 because while it doesn't affect like everything, seeing all of these journalists and all these 52:49.920 --> 52:54.900 reports of like 51% attack does have an effect on the price. And as we can see, it has been like 52:54.900 --> 52:58.160 there's probably some other stuff going on, like maybe trader is selling off, we don't know. 52:58.560 --> 53:04.300 But it does have an effect on the price. And even if like retail doesn't care that much, 53:04.740 --> 53:09.620 this is all the institutional investors see, right? They see like this news of this 51% 53:09.620 --> 53:17.800 attack and then that looks really bad. And I do have knowledge that retail actually is largely 53:18.340 --> 53:23.280 buying Monero and retail largely has not been flooded, because I do have knowledge that 53:24.180 --> 53:29.620 so within KQAL specifically, a lot of our swap providers have actually seen an uptick in Monero 53:29.620 --> 53:35.160 exchanges and swaps and not off ramping Monero, but actually getting Monero. So they've actually 53:35.160 --> 53:38.980 seen an uptick in getting Monero during this price drop. So a lot of retail is taking 53:38.980 --> 53:44.240 advantage of it. And so I think it plays into the further part of how Monero really is just 53:45.360 --> 53:49.320 it's really one of the only used cryptos, like it's the only one that people actually take 53:49.320 --> 53:56.540 seriously for the original purpose of cryptocurrency. And it has big, I'll say it has like 53:56.540 --> 54:02.140 it's still relatively niche, but it has reasonable retail adoption, especially compared to other 54:02.140 --> 54:09.860 cryptocurrencies, which have like way larger market cap. So I'm bullish on retail, but the price has 54:09.860 --> 54:14.360 been affected and I'm sure there's a lot of larger investors that have kind of started dump it based 54:14.360 --> 54:20.060 on this news. But I think it's just dispelling the fud, getting people to mine. And then, you know, 54:20.580 --> 54:28.000 talking about these solutions of what can we do to improve minor profitability? So maybe raising 54:28.000 --> 54:31.800 the fee, that's an option that's been talked about. And then these various things to 54:32.360 --> 54:39.800 try and limit the risk of a 51% attack as well. So we'll see more and more of this stuff come out as 54:39.800 --> 54:43.940 some of these developers, much smarter people talk about some of these potential solutions. And 54:43.940 --> 54:50.440 hopefully, we'll hear more about this soon. Mr. Rex, what do you think? Are you are you concerned 54:50.440 --> 54:56.020 at all as to what's happening? What's going on? Yeah, I'm not. I mean, I largely agree with 54:56.020 --> 55:00.400 what Tuxedo said. I'm not super worried, especially not. I mean, just based on the 55:00.400 --> 55:06.180 numbers and also the fact that Cubic has been basically lying for a lot of this time to get a 55:06.180 --> 55:12.480 lot of this this news flow that's not even accurate about the saying that that they successfully 55:12.480 --> 55:19.340 executed the 51% attack when that did not happen. But I think, but yeah, like it is kind of 55:19.340 --> 55:23.920 demoralizing for people that don't understand that that is incorrect information that are 55:23.920 --> 55:27.280 looking at because when you look at like trading view, for example, it does have a lot of these 55:27.280 --> 55:31.320 inaccurate news headlines all sitting there. And people think that is what's going on. So 55:31.320 --> 55:38.140 they're panic selling, in some cases, for those who just don't understand what's actually happening. 55:38.940 --> 55:44.400 But um, but yeah, I would say I do think it is going to take a bit for them. I mean, 55:44.800 --> 55:49.440 for Cubic, if they're for them to try to accumulate, that's a lot more hash rate for 55:49.440 --> 55:56.940 them to get. So they'd either have to buy a lot of hash rate rented, or or somehow convince 55:56.940 --> 56:03.720 a lot of miners to switch over to them. And I mean, I did see a video of a minor that was 56:04.280 --> 56:09.240 excited. This was like a week ago or so that they were all talking about how Cubic is paying out 56:09.240 --> 56:14.880 all this extra money and stuff. But I don't know. I mean, how much longer they can continue doing 56:14.880 --> 56:19.700 that or these extra bonuses. So especially if there's a happening occurring, if that is 56:19.700 --> 56:23.660 correct, that that's happening on the 20th, that's definitely going to cut those profits down. 56:23.660 --> 56:30.820 So yeah, I'm kind of in a wait and see approach and definitely would encourage those to mine 56:31.420 --> 56:36.860 to help defend the network, of course, but also it is encouraging to see some of the 56:36.860 --> 56:42.600 discussions about the potential solutions. And I think yeah, that's, I guess, yeah, 56:42.620 --> 56:46.860 we'll see what happens with that. But as of now, like I said, they have not successfully 56:46.860 --> 56:53.820 executed a 51% attack at this point. So so I'm not super worried, really that really that word, 56:53.940 --> 56:58.820 I guess. And I do kind of think this is a time I mean, if people are like trying to get into 56:58.820 --> 57:05.060 an arrow, I mean, it's the prices drop quite a bit, or pretty much almost almost in half 57:05.060 --> 57:10.600 from the all time high of 420 will not all time high, sorry, the recent high of 420. 57:14.280 --> 57:18.860 So yeah, I would definitely think this is a time I'm like Monero definitely could use some 57:18.860 --> 57:23.700 price support for to and in order for it to really become more profitable, the price does need to go 57:23.700 --> 57:29.440 up. So so I would say yeah, this is probably a good time to grab some Monero and also to mine. 57:30.600 --> 57:36.100 Awesome. So giving your guys is experience with Monero. How long what do you guys expect 57:36.100 --> 57:42.040 to be the timeline for the devs to actually figure something out and execute it in the market 57:43.300 --> 57:46.500 where Monero is more protected from all of this nonsense? 57:48.320 --> 57:54.140 I can't really speak to that directly. I'm not as I guess in with the developer side as some 57:54.140 --> 58:01.660 people was maybe Mr. X is. But my guess is basically that all depends on what happens 58:01.660 --> 58:07.640 over the next week. If if it does become like oh yeah, this is this is getting pretty bad, 58:07.720 --> 58:13.540 I imagine they will they will try to figure something out pretty quickly that can at least 58:13.540 --> 58:18.700 help alleviate the situation, maybe not like, you know, totally solve it. Just trying to 58:18.700 --> 58:25.260 prevent them from me only get to that point of 51%. And I imagine if it turns out, well, 58:25.420 --> 58:29.600 you know, if Cubics really just been bluffing, they are totally unable to provide a 51% 58:29.600 --> 58:33.620 because you're right, it is a lot of money. They're bleeding a lot of money to currently 58:33.620 --> 58:40.520 do these various attacks, I guess paying people out and then spending all this extra money 58:40.520 --> 58:44.960 incentivizing. And if they were to go out of their way, let's say they didn't get a 58:44.960 --> 58:49.760 bunch of more miners on board and they didn't actually convert existing Monero miners to Cubic, 58:49.840 --> 58:55.420 which seems like they haven't been able to do a ton of conversion. They would have to spend 58:55.420 --> 59:00.140 a lot of money to add that extra hash rate themselves. And I think they would need around 59:00.140 --> 59:05.340 like one and a half, two giga hashes depending on how much like I don't even think their 59:05.340 --> 59:09.980 hash rate they're representing is even true. So I think they would need even more than 59:09.980 --> 59:15.700 that to be honest. But that would cost a lot of money. So I think it all just depends 59:15.700 --> 59:20.040 on what happens over the next week. If this thing is like they're bluffing and you know, 59:20.260 --> 59:24.080 I think it'll blow off and then something will come along a little bit further down 59:24.080 --> 59:27.160 the line, maybe a few months, maybe along with the next hard fork, something that can 59:27.160 --> 59:32.480 approve. But in the short term, I could imagine fees getting increased fairly 59:32.480 --> 59:37.020 significantly because that's an easy thing that can be done that can very quickly make 59:38.600 --> 59:42.260 depending on the transaction amount that could help make miners more profitable, 59:42.320 --> 59:45.840 help incentivize mining. Some of these things that don't require a hard fork, 59:45.960 --> 59:50.980 I imagine those will be maybe prioritized in the event that it becomes a sketchy 59:50.980 --> 59:57.240 situation over the next few days. Yeah, I'm actually just. Oh, sorry, I'm sorry, 59:57.420 --> 01:00:01.700 you were saying? Oh, well, yeah, I was just checking on some of the chats there and they 01:00:01.700 --> 01:00:06.780 were talking about how cubic was renting, allegedly renting hash rate and not even 01:00:06.780 --> 01:00:13.360 getting as much hash as is, I mean, is well anywhere close to the 51% level at least. 01:00:13.920 --> 01:00:19.120 But just, yeah, I think it's definitely the flood and the bots. There's definitely, 01:00:19.120 --> 01:00:23.860 I've seen evidence of bots all saying the same thing in support of cubic and then all trying 01:00:23.860 --> 01:00:28.100 to flood Monero too. So it's like, there's definitely a campaign against Monero. That's 01:00:28.100 --> 01:00:32.940 definitely for sure. And personally, I think when I was just going to come out stronger out of 01:00:32.940 --> 01:00:39.380 this thing, it's just really, this is kind of like a shit coin really just trying to flex 01:00:39.380 --> 01:00:45.040 itself and pretend that, oh, yeah, we can take down this multi-billion dollar Monero, even 01:00:45.040 --> 01:00:50.580 though we're only a few hundred million market cap. But I mean, I think it's just all, I mean, 01:00:51.000 --> 01:00:57.860 as evidenced by their lives from cubic and inaccurate reporting, I think it's, 01:00:58.260 --> 01:01:02.280 yeah, they're trying to make a name for themselves, but I just ultimately don't think they will 01:01:02.940 --> 01:01:08.180 really hurt Monero. But I do, it doesn't mean we shouldn't be vigilant and we should continue 01:01:08.180 --> 01:01:12.280 of course mining. And this is an opportunity really to help strengthen Monero 01:01:13.120 --> 01:01:18.500 fundamentally. So I think, I ultimately do think that is what's going to happen as a result. 01:01:19.780 --> 01:01:23.540 Yeah, I personally think that what's going to carry Monero through this and through everything 01:01:23.540 --> 01:01:29.100 else is the adherence to the false ethos and the honesty and the reverence that 01:01:29.100 --> 01:01:36.320 the community has to truth. So that's Monero superpower. And that's what, 01:01:37.040 --> 01:01:44.720 I know Monero's in good hands. I get the same vibe from everyone that I meet in the 01:01:44.720 --> 01:01:50.440 Monero community. They're just people that put their egos aside and they're more ready to tell you 01:01:51.740 --> 01:01:56.580 anything, any possible thing that could go wrong with Monero than they are to show you 01:01:56.580 --> 01:02:01.380 how great Monero is. It's almost the backwards of every other culture that I've encountered 01:02:01.380 --> 01:02:06.280 in crypto and it is that culture which makes us very special, a very special environment. 01:02:06.720 --> 01:02:14.840 So I'm personally not that worried, but I do want to follow up on this as it continues because 01:02:15.480 --> 01:02:22.040 something that I learned from, I lived through the Bitcoin civil war and I was a big blocker. 01:02:22.140 --> 01:02:26.960 And what I learned was that the technology doesn't matter as much. The economics doesn't 01:02:26.960 --> 01:02:34.400 matter as much. What drives things is what people think and how they're informed and 01:02:34.400 --> 01:02:41.880 thought can cause a lot of damage. So it's very important to have these conversations. 01:02:42.540 --> 01:02:50.740 And I look forward to having you Tuxedo at the Crypto Vigilante summit coming up on September 12 01:02:51.430 --> 01:02:57.540 where you're going to be showcasing a cake wallet and I look forward to your presentation. 01:02:58.460 --> 01:03:02.280 This is going to happen again Friday, September 12. Everyone's welcome to join 01:03:02.280 --> 01:03:10.560 at TCVSummit.com. All of the description is in the notes below here of this video. 01:03:11.520 --> 01:03:18.600 And any final thoughts regarding this whole situation with Monero and Kubik 01:03:18.600 --> 01:03:27.040 before we leave? Tuxedo? I think we had a good talk about the situation, 01:03:27.940 --> 01:03:33.940 potential solutions and what's going on. But yeah, just the TLDR. Like we said, 01:03:34.200 --> 01:03:38.780 mine if you can, if you have a spare system. If you want to throw, there's a lot of people 01:03:38.780 --> 01:03:45.480 saying, how can I throw money at this? Go rent some hash rate on miningrigrentals.com. 01:03:45.480 --> 01:03:53.800 You can get quite a lot of hash rate for pretty low money. And dispel the FUD, explain to people 01:03:53.800 --> 01:04:03.100 what's going on. Like you were saying, we want to be truthful, but we also want to dispel the FUD. 01:04:03.220 --> 01:04:08.320 So we are being realistic about Monero's potential downsize waves. It could be 01:04:08.320 --> 01:04:14.120 attacked by the same time. We do want to dispel the FUD at the source. And this is 01:04:14.120 --> 01:04:19.400 a lot of FUD. There's concern, but the 51% attack is a lie. So if you see that, 01:04:19.580 --> 01:04:24.880 you've got the information now and you can look at this data yourself. Dispel that, 01:04:25.480 --> 01:04:30.900 which will help, I guess, ensure trust in the network and let people know that, hey, 01:04:31.220 --> 01:04:37.900 it's not actually that bad. It's not over. And to know that, something like Monero, 01:04:38.180 --> 01:04:42.060 it's got a lot of good people behind it. And like you were saying, I'm sure it's 01:04:42.060 --> 01:04:47.120 going to be just fine. I think it's going to get better. Awesome. Mr. Rex? 01:04:48.640 --> 01:04:55.380 Yeah, I agree 100%. And actually, one thing, speaking of cake wallet and wallets in general, 01:04:55.700 --> 01:05:01.920 of another area of FUD that came up today was the news about the Google Play Store banning 01:05:01.920 --> 01:05:07.060 wallets that don't have a banking license, which initially was a bit worrisome, but then 01:05:07.060 --> 01:05:14.740 of course, then thankfully, after the, I guess, the outrage about that, people, or I guess, 01:05:14.880 --> 01:05:19.820 Google clarified that this would only apply to non-custodial wallets. So thankfully, 01:05:20.360 --> 01:05:26.100 you won't have to, I guess, bypass the Play Store and download the APK or a Crescent or other 01:05:26.780 --> 01:05:30.960 solutions to download some of our favorite wallets like Cake Wall, for example, which I use 01:05:30.960 --> 01:05:40.960 very often. But yeah, just another interesting FUD issue that arose today as well that I thought 01:05:40.960 --> 01:05:47.000 I'd mentioned. Awesome, guys. So I hope everything gets solved as soon as possible. And 01:05:48.520 --> 01:05:54.600 yeah, I think that I'm very grateful for this conversation. Thank you for coming on, 01:05:54.780 --> 01:05:59.880 Tuxedo. Thank you for coming on Mr. Rex. And until we meet again, peace, love, Anarchy. 01:06:27.240 --> 01:06:29.140 Take care. Bye. 01:06:29.880 --> 01:06:36.700 about sound cryptocurrencies that are actually private by default and to know how to properly use crypto.