WEBVTT 00:00.020 --> 00:05.400 This episode is sponsored by Zano, the privacy-based crypto we use right here at the Free Thought Project. 00:05.860 --> 00:12.500 While Bitcoin's been hijacked by surveillance exchanges and institutional control, Zano stays true to what crypto is supposed to be. 00:12.940 --> 00:15.240 Private, peer-to-peer, and censorship-free. 00:15.720 --> 00:16.740 It's more than just a coin. 00:17.140 --> 00:18.760 Zano is a full-blown ecosystem. 00:19.360 --> 00:28.960 Private transactions, atomic swaps, confidential assets, escrow trades, and even a decentralized marketplace where people are already buying and selling real goods and services. 00:28.960 --> 00:31.500 All without a third party looking over your shoulder. 00:31.920 --> 00:38.680 And unlike that fiat that you're forced to use, every Zano transaction burns a bit of the supply, making it deflationary over time. 00:39.120 --> 00:39.740 Imagine that. 00:40.040 --> 00:43.540 A cryptocurrency that gets more valuable the more people use it. 00:44.160 --> 00:44.780 And the best part? 00:45.100 --> 00:45.600 It just works. 00:46.060 --> 00:46.860 No KYC. 00:47.180 --> 00:47.780 No big brother. 00:48.120 --> 00:50.500 Just a tool for people who actually value freedom. 00:50.980 --> 00:51.440 Zano. 00:51.700 --> 00:55.460 Because the Free Thought Project doesn't just talk liberty, we transact with it. 00:56.380 --> 00:58.940 People should not be afraid of their governments. 01:01.080 --> 01:03.060 Government should be afraid of people. 01:05.600 --> 01:11.100 No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world. 01:15.880 --> 01:18.000 Ideas can change the world. 01:18.140 --> 01:22.840 An idea whose time has come cannot be destroyed by armies or governments. 01:22.840 --> 01:27.160 It's too pervasive and we still have tools to spread the message. 01:35.300 --> 01:38.600 Welcome to the Free Thought Project podcast. 01:39.740 --> 01:46.960 A hub for free thinking conversations about the promotion of liberty and the daunting task of government accountability. 01:48.640 --> 01:53.380 Here are your hosts, Jason Bassler and Matt Agarist. 01:58.500 --> 01:59.440 Hello again, free thinkers. 01:59.820 --> 02:01.980 Welcome back to the Free Thought Project podcast. 02:02.400 --> 02:03.560 My name is Jason Bassler. 02:03.560 --> 02:08.020 And joining me is the Free Thought Project editor-in-chief, Matt Agarist. 02:08.520 --> 02:10.300 Thanks as always for joining us. 02:10.420 --> 02:12.640 We are excited to get into the interview today. 02:13.060 --> 02:19.180 We're welcoming a new guest to the show today, somebody I've wanted to speak to and have on the show for several years now. 02:19.760 --> 02:24.800 And finally the stars aligned and we're certainly grateful to finally have her joining us. 02:25.180 --> 02:32.800 But first I wanted to remind our listeners that we had a very intriguing and powerful dialogue last week with an old friend of the Free Thought Project. 02:33.600 --> 02:37.300 David, also known as San Joaquin Valley Transparency. 02:37.580 --> 02:43.660 He's a First Amendment auditor, a cop watcher with a YouTube channel with over a half a million subscribers. 02:44.440 --> 02:58.340 And David shared his perspective with us about on the ground events and protests and how people in his community are responding to ICE and the Border Patrol kidnapping of immigrants in their communities. 02:58.340 --> 03:15.960 Now we also touched on Trump's emerging police state, the Charlie Kirk shooting, and if that was a PSYOP and what the American people need to do to be psychologically prepared for the onslaught of fear platitudes and dividing conquer tactics currently being rolled out. 03:16.580 --> 03:19.980 Definitely listen to that episode after this one, guys. It was a great one. 03:20.680 --> 03:24.860 And also let me remind you that this podcast is fueled by you. 03:25.220 --> 03:29.740 If you are a longtime listener, please take a moment to make sure you are subscribed to this podcast. 03:30.340 --> 03:33.060 Make sure you take a brief moment as well to rate and review. 03:33.660 --> 03:42.840 And if you want to be a Free Thought Freedom Warrior, please go to the top of our website, the freethoughtproject.com, and there you'll see a tab for a TFTP membership. 03:42.840 --> 03:46.340 So please consider that or making a one-time donation. 03:46.700 --> 03:50.120 But of course, a $10 a month subscription is ideal. 03:50.360 --> 03:59.580 That helps us keep our lights on and keeps our fires fueled and allows us to keep producing these powerful podcasts, these written articles, and memes and videos. 04:01.680 --> 04:07.180 Okay, guys, well, now that that's out of the way, I will go ahead and introduce our guests for the day. 04:07.960 --> 04:13.440 Today we're joined by Dr. Mary Ruart. She's a scientist turned freedom fighter. 04:13.740 --> 04:16.220 She's a longtime voice for liberty. 04:16.740 --> 04:27.380 She's an author of the book Healing Our World and has been one of the most consistent advocates for volunteerism, peace and individual sovereignty that we have on Team Liberty. 04:28.200 --> 04:36.640 For decades, she's been warning us about the dangers of course of government power and offering real alternatives rooted in freedom and personal responsibility. 04:37.280 --> 04:43.080 So I'm out that we have a lot to talk about today and I'm really excited to jump into things. 04:43.360 --> 04:49.020 So Dr. Ruart, thank you for joining us today and welcome to Free Thought Project podcast. 04:49.820 --> 04:52.080 Well, thank you. I'm glad to be here. 04:52.320 --> 05:01.140 It's really kind of exciting to hear about your endeavors also for me because I wasn't as familiar with you as I'd like to be. 05:01.660 --> 05:06.420 Oh, okay. Well, perfect. We're going to be breaking some ground here. 05:07.240 --> 05:09.920 And yeah, as I said, I've been really looking forward to this. 05:10.340 --> 05:14.300 We've wanted to have you join our podcast for literally years now. 05:14.480 --> 05:19.580 I think the first time I heard your name and saw you speak was all the way back in 2017. 05:20.280 --> 05:26.580 When I went with a friend of this show, Luis Fernando Mises, to a conference that you were speaking at in Austin, Texas. 05:26.580 --> 05:33.380 And there were a few other names being there that day that I was familiar with like John Mackie, you know, the founder of Whole Foods. 05:34.080 --> 05:34.520 Yes. 05:35.040 --> 05:39.280 Your words that day very much resonated with me and I feel like I've been following you ever since. 05:39.920 --> 05:44.760 Now, sometimes the universe does come full circle because after years of following you, 05:44.800 --> 05:49.580 I've noticed that you've been kind enough to share some of my tweets and some of our work here at the Free Thought Project. 05:50.320 --> 05:52.680 And it's a real honor to witness that. So thank you. 05:52.680 --> 05:57.500 But even though I have been, you know, following you for years now, and I know your work, 05:57.540 --> 06:01.520 but I think it's best to assume our audience may not be as familiar with it as I am. 06:01.880 --> 06:06.460 So maybe in an attempt to, you know, get our audience to be a little more familiar with you, 06:06.880 --> 06:14.780 could you perhaps share your story about how your early career in the biomedical research field shaped your libertarian views 06:14.780 --> 06:19.100 and led you on the path of volunteerism and maybe from there we can get into a few other related topics. 06:20.200 --> 06:27.080 Sure. Well, I actually was involved with a group that was interested in I and Rand in college. 06:27.900 --> 06:35.780 And so that was my first, yeah, the first, I guess you could say the wake up call is probably a good way to put it. 06:36.400 --> 06:42.640 And at the time, you know, as an undergrad, I had just gotten out of 11 years of Catholic school. 06:43.580 --> 06:53.040 And I kind of felt that this, well, it was objectivism as it was called then, but kind of morphed into libertarianism right away 06:53.040 --> 06:57.980 because the group I was interested in were, you know, anarcho-capitalists, 06:58.060 --> 07:05.980 even though they were introducing me to objectivism and, you know, were very fond of I and Rand. 07:05.980 --> 07:16.320 So I thought that the Catholic influence, which I, you know, wasn't actively engaged in in college, 07:16.560 --> 07:25.140 but the influence was important because to me libertarianism seemed like the political expression of loving your neighbor. 07:25.480 --> 07:33.020 And that was, I think that was a takeaway that I felt was very practical from all those religion classes. 07:33.020 --> 07:37.020 And so I really embraced it quite quickly. 07:37.640 --> 07:45.760 And that really influenced a lot of the way I approached libertarianism and healing our world. 07:46.140 --> 07:53.380 And also it was, it was very different than what was happening at the time in the libertarian movement. 07:53.580 --> 07:57.060 There was a lot of judgment going on and infighting. 07:57.060 --> 08:00.780 So that did not seem like a good idea to me. 08:00.880 --> 08:09.320 So I actively did some things to maybe have us question whether that was really what we should be doing. 08:10.400 --> 08:16.520 And, you know, having a more understanding approach to people who had a very different viewpoint 08:17.060 --> 08:20.920 because really there's a lot of propaganda out there and people have a hard time 08:20.920 --> 08:25.840 even thinking of the concept of taxation as theft, you know, it's so ingrained. 08:25.840 --> 08:30.820 Even we have the expression, you know, nothing certain but death and taxes. 08:31.380 --> 08:35.220 So, you know, it's quite ingrained. 08:35.480 --> 08:42.140 So I was trying to kind of shift the discussion to something that seemed a little more robust to me. 08:42.740 --> 08:48.940 And that's that emerged as healing our world, which is now, and I think it's fourth or fifth edition. 08:48.940 --> 08:53.280 I also did a book called Short Answers to the Tough Questions. 08:54.180 --> 08:57.300 And this was something I learned on the campaign trail. 08:57.520 --> 09:03.440 I think I've run as a libertarian candidate so many times I can't even remember how many times I've run. 09:03.980 --> 09:07.300 And of course they give you what, 30 seconds to make your pitch. 09:07.580 --> 09:10.040 So you have to have those short answers. 09:10.540 --> 09:18.740 And then my most recent book, Death by Regulation, really kind of integrates my medical background. 09:18.740 --> 09:26.040 I was in the pharmaceutical arena for 19 years, as well as academics before that. 09:26.640 --> 09:33.740 And what I learned is that the regulations for drugs especially were kind of warped. 09:34.200 --> 09:39.540 They really favored bad drugs and not the best ones. 09:39.540 --> 09:49.840 And it took so long and was so expensive and is still increasing that it really drove the prices up at the pharmacy. 09:50.000 --> 09:58.280 And that's why drug prices are so high because, you know, only one or two out of 10 drugs actually make back the cost of getting the FDA approval. 09:58.280 --> 10:09.560 And it went from four years to 14 years after the passage of the 1962 Amendments to the Food and Drug Act, 10:09.640 --> 10:14.540 which is what I normally talk about in great detail in Death by Regulation, 10:14.700 --> 10:21.040 showing that it's probably shaved, you know, probably five to 10 years off each of our lives. 10:21.040 --> 10:27.580 So that's skinny on my participation in the libertarian movement. 10:28.260 --> 10:30.900 Well, forgive me for not mentioning those other two books. 10:31.040 --> 10:32.100 I'm glad that you did, though. 10:32.240 --> 10:34.440 And hopefully, our audience will check those out as well. 10:35.040 --> 10:38.900 And when you say libertarians were in fighting, I mean, that's just so shocking to me. 10:38.980 --> 10:40.980 I can't believe you've even back grown. 10:41.700 --> 10:43.160 Libertarians were fighting with each other. 10:43.300 --> 10:44.200 Big surprise, right? 10:44.700 --> 10:45.040 Yeah. 10:45.900 --> 10:46.300 No. 10:46.540 --> 10:48.140 That was a great summarization. 10:48.580 --> 10:53.780 And it gives us a little bit more of an understanding of, you know, your background and where you come from with all this. 10:54.280 --> 10:58.880 And, you know, Unrand was a huge red pill for a lot of libertarians, it seems like. 10:59.020 --> 11:03.660 A lot of people really took value from her thinking and her objectivism. 11:04.180 --> 11:05.520 And I think, yeah, I think you're right. 11:05.780 --> 11:10.020 As far as it kind of formulating a lot of modern day libertarian theory, 11:10.020 --> 11:15.140 I feel like a lot of it does kind of rest on her shoulders and kind of is a backbone. 11:15.480 --> 11:18.960 Of course, there are some diversions there with, you know, some of the philosophy. 11:19.560 --> 11:21.160 But no, I'd love to hear that. 11:21.440 --> 11:30.380 And, you know, loving your neighbor, I think you had mentioned that as kind of like what you got from at least the political assessment of what libertarianism is. 11:30.480 --> 11:32.020 I think that's a great assessment. 11:32.220 --> 11:34.300 I think that pretty much hits the nail on the head. 11:34.300 --> 11:40.740 A lot of times we also talk about the golden rule as being, you know, a huge part of what libertarian is about. 11:40.840 --> 11:42.520 Obviously, that's the non-aggression principle. 11:43.120 --> 11:44.760 Both of those things kind of go hand in hand. 11:44.840 --> 11:51.980 And it's so surprising to me how many people understand that, but still somehow don't quite apply it to the political realm. 11:52.720 --> 11:55.780 And it feels like that is just a huge blind spot. 11:56.060 --> 11:59.500 I mean, if you understand some of these principles, libertarian principles, 11:59.980 --> 12:04.020 sometimes I pull my hair out trying to understand how people can just deviate from them, 12:04.020 --> 12:06.260 especially after they start to understand them, you know. 12:06.840 --> 12:10.060 And maybe we could get into a little bit more of that here in a second. 12:10.160 --> 12:14.960 But I did want to touch on what you were just talking about, some of the FDA stuff here, 12:14.980 --> 12:27.580 because I know that, well, you know, our friends on the left, they typically feel like the FDA is something that, you know, is supposed to be protecting the American consumer, the American public. 12:27.580 --> 12:32.900 I know you've spent, you know, decades studying how these regulations impact medicine and healthcare. 12:33.580 --> 12:37.660 And, you know, it ultimately doesn't protect patients. 12:37.840 --> 12:43.220 I think what that tends to be kind of the veneer, that tends to be what they tell us. 12:43.640 --> 12:54.420 But a lot of times the FDA is slow to react, has a very costly approval process that drags on some of the guidelines that they set, you know, it seems that they stifle innovation. 12:54.420 --> 12:59.060 And it sometimes, in some cases, probably actually even costing lives. 12:59.280 --> 13:12.620 So I was wondering if maybe you could, you know, walk us through some examples of how the FDA has slowed or blocked medical breakthroughs and why these regulations seem to persist despite, you know, the harm. 13:13.060 --> 13:20.920 And maybe, you know, just to be good libertarians here, we could talk about what the feasible alternative solutions could be to the FDA as well. 13:20.920 --> 13:34.440 Yes, well, you know, basically the FDA was funded by Congress and Congress, of course, hates it when some of the citizens come forward and say, oh, these drugs have side effects. 13:34.800 --> 13:50.900 And so Congress would kind of beat up on the FDA, you know, and so what the FDA did is they tried to think of every study that could be done that, and they required this of the pharmaceutical firms starting in the 70s. 13:50.900 --> 13:52.260 Early 70s. 13:52.920 --> 13:57.620 And they did this because they knew that every drug has side effects. 13:57.940 --> 14:09.460 And so if Congress heard about them and got complaints about them, the FDA regulators wanted to be able to point to all these studies and say, hey, we, you know, we looked at everything we could think of. 14:10.420 --> 14:24.800 And so that is what caused the change from a four-year timeline from the lab bench to the marketplace to 14 years in the turn of the last century. 14:25.900 --> 14:30.580 And of course, people died waiting for the drugs that were really helpful. 14:30.860 --> 14:36.060 And I think probably the most helpful drugs were put out in that period. 14:36.060 --> 14:47.000 Then what happened is the cost of getting an FDA approval got so high that there was a big merging of the pharmaceutical industry. 14:47.260 --> 14:55.100 So now we have big pharma, and we have that because, you know, it costs about two and a half billion dollars to get a drug to the marketplace. 14:55.660 --> 15:03.680 That actually includes all the failures, which really are the biggest part of the two and a half billion. 15:03.680 --> 15:22.660 And then what ends up happening is with this low-cost recovery that I mentioned earlier of one or two drugs may be making back the FDA approval costs, the whole industry is now dependent on blockbusters. 15:23.120 --> 15:25.520 And this is not a stable situation. 15:25.520 --> 15:37.420 So what happened in 1992 is with the big pharma blessing is that Congress passed the Prescription Drug User Fee Act. 15:38.000 --> 15:43.800 That allowed the FDA to charge the companies a what they call the user fee. 15:43.800 --> 16:00.420 And that user fee allowed the FDA to hire more examiners so that the process of the FDA looking over these 13 or so years of studies would be, you know, would be going faster. 16:00.660 --> 16:12.040 At that time, it was about one to two years that the FDA took to look over what was literally a truckload of paper that we would send to the FDA to get a new drug approval. 16:13.140 --> 16:28.120 And so then what happened is now about 70% the last time I looked it's probably more 70% of the part of the FDA that looks at drug approvals is paid for by the pharmaceutical industry. 16:28.460 --> 16:37.300 So now when BIOX was being considered for approval, one of the regulators told his boss, hey, we can't approve this. 16:37.300 --> 16:46.240 It causes heart attacks and the boss said, well, we will approve it because the, you know, the pharma companies are our client. 16:46.640 --> 16:56.600 So notice it wasn't the American consumer or Congress anymore because now the pharma companies were basically funding the FDA. 16:57.200 --> 17:01.340 So this is how what happens when you have a lot of regulations. 17:02.140 --> 17:07.340 It gets so tough for the industry that if they don't co-opt the regulators, they go out of business. 17:07.560 --> 17:10.160 And that's exactly what happened in the pharmaceutical industry. 17:10.700 --> 17:14.480 So now it's just the opposite of what it was earlier. 17:15.020 --> 17:20.780 Basically, things are rushed through like the mRNA COVID vaccines, which were totally new. 17:20.780 --> 17:25.880 And probably should have been considered as a gene therapy, not as a vaccine. 17:26.400 --> 17:31.020 So, you know, this gets to be, you know, it's a mess is what it is. 17:31.100 --> 17:37.740 I mean, for the American consumer, you know, we can't trust that there's been real good scrutiny for safety. 17:37.900 --> 17:47.780 And as I talk about in my book, Death by Regulation, we haven't improved safety and we haven't improved effectiveness because of the 62 amendments. 17:47.780 --> 17:52.120 So we've basically wasted all that time and money. 17:52.980 --> 17:59.020 And of course, the FDA also has been attacking prevention quite a bit. 17:59.280 --> 18:01.840 And it did that even before the 62 amendments. 18:02.820 --> 18:10.040 And prevention, of course, you know, the ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure is a very accurate statement. 18:10.240 --> 18:12.760 So that's another problem that we have. 18:13.720 --> 18:20.560 Dr. Ruer, you just perfectly, you know, detailed how the so-called regulation actually shields corporations and promotes bad drugs, right? 18:20.600 --> 18:22.740 Instead of promoting things that help people. 18:22.860 --> 18:26.760 And you mentioned BIOX, which killed tens of thousands of people. 18:26.860 --> 18:30.000 And it also promotes a lack of accountability, right? 18:30.120 --> 18:32.140 And not a single person went to jail for any of this. 18:32.340 --> 18:37.540 They just paid billions of dollars or millions of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars in fines, and they get to keep on going. 18:37.800 --> 18:40.420 You know, it's like a, it's almost like a pay-to-play thing. 18:40.420 --> 18:48.960 They could just commit crimes, harm people, and then pay a little bit of money to regulators, wherever that money goes, certainly not the victims, and keep going. 18:49.500 --> 18:55.700 And as you mentioned, Pfizer, with their fast-tracked mRNA vaccine, that harmed a lot of people. 18:56.440 --> 19:02.840 And the Trump administration, of course, going against everything his base wanted, just cut that golden deal with Pfizer last week. 19:03.400 --> 19:06.660 And speaking of criminal rap sheets, Pfizer has a massive one. 19:06.660 --> 19:10.440 But instead of this, like, everybody's cheering Trump on for that. 19:10.580 --> 19:21.700 And if it would have been anything that was going to help the person who needs medicine, like the average American, then Pfizer's stock certainly wouldn't have shot up like it did last week after that deal was announced, right? 19:22.360 --> 19:28.700 I mean, it's just a move that betrays his entire base, and they just keep on taking it. 19:28.920 --> 19:31.660 It's so funny to me, but it's sad as well. 19:31.660 --> 19:37.080 I mean, it perfectly illustrates this revolving door that you talk about, you know, on your website and stuff. 19:37.160 --> 19:40.160 And we just discussed this on our Cratom podcast. 19:40.460 --> 19:46.360 We had a few weeks ago how former FDA commissioner Scott Gottlieb now sits on Pfizer's board. 19:46.500 --> 19:48.880 And before that, he was on GlaxoSmithKline's board. 19:49.220 --> 19:58.020 And, you know, he used the state power to attack a natural plant, cashed in on it, and now benefits the very corporations who he works for. 19:58.020 --> 20:05.260 And the FDA approval process itself is like an intentional slow, multi-billion dollar gauntlet. 20:05.360 --> 20:08.960 Like you said, it takes 14 years now for the average drug to get approved. 20:09.380 --> 20:19.860 And that is specifically designed to benefit all these monster corporations like Pfizer and GlaxoSmithKline and the others because no one who innovates a new drug has that staying power in there. 20:19.920 --> 20:27.020 They're paying all that research and whatever grants they have long dry up before that whole approval process is able to go through. 20:27.020 --> 20:29.380 So they end up being bought out by these companies as well. 20:29.380 --> 20:32.240 So they just further control the market even more that way. 20:32.340 --> 20:32.900 That's right. 20:32.940 --> 20:36.140 And sadly, it's not even a failure of the system, right? 20:36.260 --> 20:38.840 This is like, this is how the system is intended to work. 20:39.020 --> 20:42.780 It's the same racket that fuels the military industrial complex and everything else. 20:42.780 --> 20:48.560 It proves that the state's primary function is to enrich the powerful, not protect the public. 20:48.560 --> 20:53.720 So with all that long rant that I had to get out, because this one hits home with me, 20:53.820 --> 21:02.100 but for someone new to these ideas, like any of our listeners who's been taught their whole life that the government is necessary, benevolent force, 21:02.680 --> 21:10.120 how do you make the case that society wouldn't just survive but actually thrive becoming more peaceful and more prosperous 21:10.120 --> 21:15.480 in the complete absence of not just government regulation in the market but government itself? 21:16.200 --> 21:19.240 Well, I think that's what I tried to do in healing our world. 21:19.360 --> 21:29.940 I don't explicitly say no more government, but step by step I tried to show, you know, that taxation doesn't work. 21:30.140 --> 21:31.720 The regulations don't work. 21:31.980 --> 21:36.100 Even what we call national defense doesn't work. 21:36.740 --> 21:39.960 I don't know if your listeners have ever read the book Rogue Warrior, 21:39.960 --> 21:49.000 but it's a really interesting read because it's by a Navy SEAL who was actually in the service, 21:49.220 --> 21:54.920 roughly at the time that program got started and he was very prominent in it. 21:55.480 --> 22:05.680 And he was tasked to pick, you know, five or six comrades and do a pretend takeover of the naval bases. 22:05.680 --> 22:13.280 And the naval base commanders were told that these guys would be coming in about a week. 22:13.760 --> 22:22.880 And yet they were so unprepared that it generally took just a few hours for this little group to take over the naval base. 22:23.120 --> 22:28.920 And when the commanders were of the bases were questioned about that, they'd say things like, 22:28.920 --> 22:33.140 well, he came in from the ocean. Who would have expected that? 22:35.040 --> 22:44.020 And, you know, this is an important piece, I think, because if we can't protect our own bases on our own soil, 22:44.580 --> 22:46.540 we don't really have a defense. 22:46.980 --> 22:48.320 We do have an offense. 22:49.120 --> 22:55.000 We certainly can bomb other countries and have all the way through the nuclear ones. 22:55.000 --> 23:01.700 But, you know, if we can't protect our actual land base, we've got a big problem. 23:02.320 --> 23:10.440 And so, you know, I, like I said, I use a lot of examples and I reference everything because I don't expect people to take my word for things. 23:10.480 --> 23:18.920 So I want to point them to studies or books like Rogue Warrior where you really get a better feel for what's happening. 23:18.920 --> 23:31.280 And that way people can research themselves if they have a particular agency that they love, you know, they can check it out and see what they think after they've done that research. 23:31.580 --> 23:34.300 So that's kind of the idea of healing our world. 23:34.360 --> 23:41.500 And as I said, I'm not explicit, but by the time you get to the end of the book, there isn't, I mean, I don't think there's any sacred cows left. 23:42.260 --> 23:45.640 Yeah, it's basically like an illusion of competence, right? 23:45.760 --> 23:54.080 Then only one half of the country can see the incompetence at a time whenever their party's not in power, but they perceive their party to be competent every time that they are. 23:54.460 --> 23:59.440 And it just leads to the situation we're in today where it's mass incompetence across the board. 24:00.280 --> 24:05.320 And yeah, we're not there's, I mean, it's been like this, you know, like the incompetence that led to 9-11. 24:05.320 --> 24:17.460 And we just see the incompetence that led to the COVID debacle where everybody thinks that the government is some altruistic power that is going to save everybody when the proverbial shit hits the fan. 24:17.580 --> 24:19.680 But it just never plays out like that. 24:20.000 --> 24:25.860 And that's why you and us and everybody else talking about these ideas of volunteerism are so important. 24:26.600 --> 24:32.120 Now it's like, but again, like you said, it's a very difficult message to get across, right? 24:32.120 --> 24:46.800 We have a messaging problem. We have infighting in the libertarian movement, you know, their love thy neighbor is a universal theme and everybody, all Christians, not even just Christians, atheists, you can't disagree with that, right? 24:47.020 --> 24:49.980 You have to, you have to embrace that value. 24:50.120 --> 24:53.180 Otherwise you live in pure chaos and no one wants to live like that. 24:53.180 --> 25:03.720 I mean, the principles of volunteerism, like non aggression, peace, consent, all these things are most, you know, most people practice and value in their own lives on a daily basis. 25:03.960 --> 25:06.240 It's a, it's how we go about living. 25:06.580 --> 25:17.440 Yet when you try to explain these ideas to people as a way of life or a societal aspect of it, they kind of shut down and just their eyes gloss over and they don't know what you're talking about, right? 25:17.440 --> 25:26.520 I think that the state and its media allies have successfully branded the philosophy of freedom as it's either dangerous or naive and it's sad. 25:26.880 --> 25:32.100 And the message of liberty, it also gets, you know, lost in translation or drowned out by status fear mongering. 25:32.780 --> 25:34.620 It's constantly under attack. 25:34.840 --> 25:39.300 Yet we base our entire society in America on the idea of freedom. 25:40.200 --> 25:41.440 Air quotes, right? 25:42.160 --> 25:48.200 And your, in your decades of outreach, what have you found to be the most effective way to cut through that propaganda? 25:48.260 --> 25:59.480 And how do we make the philosophy of peace and liberty not just understandable, but appealing or even cool like Ron Paul managed to do for decades as a senior citizen? 26:00.480 --> 26:08.180 Well, I know when I went into the classroom, high school or college to give a talk on libertarianism. 26:08.180 --> 26:14.200 Well, what I did, the first thing I did was go to the blackboard and put down three things. 26:14.480 --> 26:18.800 I put down number one, the minority should rule the majority. 26:19.480 --> 26:23.140 Number two, the majority should rule the minority. 26:23.660 --> 26:30.900 And number three, everyone should rule themselves as long as they don't initiate physical force fraud or theft against others. 26:31.900 --> 26:41.980 And then I asked the students to vote if they got to play God and they could decide how the US government should act. 26:42.560 --> 26:43.760 What would they choose? 26:44.520 --> 26:51.240 And I would say 95% raised their hand for the non-aggression principle, which of course was number three. 26:51.920 --> 26:57.860 And then I asked, well, how do you view the US government really acts today? 26:57.860 --> 27:04.140 Well, very few, if any, would raise their hand for the non-aggression principle. 27:04.360 --> 27:09.600 They were mostly in the majority ruling the minority or the minority ruling the majority. 27:11.000 --> 27:19.200 And this told me that there is something very attractive about the non-aggression principle. 27:19.360 --> 27:24.360 When we hear it, we automatically think it's the way to be. 27:24.360 --> 27:30.620 And then, of course, from that perspective, I would mention that, of course, this was the non-aggression principle. 27:31.120 --> 27:33.800 This was the principle libertarianism is based on. 27:34.240 --> 27:41.060 And then I would move into what this actually meant in real life for taxation, for regulation, et cetera. 27:42.000 --> 27:52.360 It was pretty mind blowing for a lot of students, but I think that worked pretty well because they already identified with the non-aggression principle. 27:52.360 --> 28:01.200 And I think that that is actually fairly universal in our society because on a one-to-one basis, that's how most of us relate to others. 28:02.000 --> 28:05.660 We don't go out and steal or murder and things like that. 28:06.420 --> 28:14.540 Obviously, there are a few to do, but for the most part, most people would be important to them. 28:15.160 --> 28:19.480 So the non-aggression principle is very inspiring. 28:20.420 --> 28:23.720 And we've kind of forgotten that in the libertarian movement. 28:24.080 --> 28:37.480 We've gotten so focused on trying to have a candidate win, a libertarian candidate win, rather than have our libertarian ideas win, that we have kind of lost our way. 28:37.480 --> 28:48.520 You know, the system's rigged. Our candidates are not going to win in great enough force to, you know, do anything constructive because it's a majority rule system. 28:49.340 --> 28:50.720 That's the truth of it. 28:50.900 --> 28:58.320 And the Republicans and Democrats spend quite a bit of time making sure that ballot access for a third party is very difficult. 28:59.080 --> 29:07.440 I'd say we spend 80 to 90% of all the money that we collect as libertarians, not on our campaigns, but on getting ballot access. 29:08.420 --> 29:09.700 You know, it's a real burden. 29:10.520 --> 29:17.160 So we're not going to be the majority in Congress anytime soon, but our ideas can be. 29:17.420 --> 29:25.200 And to give you an example, you know, back when I started in the, you know, the late 70s, early 80s, 29:26.200 --> 29:33.300 basically, we were the only people talking about how taxation is theft and getting rid of the income tax. 29:33.560 --> 29:36.660 Now today, our president talks about it. 29:37.420 --> 29:42.620 We were the only political party that came out in favor of gay rights back then. 29:43.220 --> 29:44.700 And now that's accepted. 29:45.580 --> 29:49.920 We were the only group that was saying we should legalize drugs. 29:49.920 --> 29:59.320 And while drugs and the war on drugs have not ended, most states at least allow medical marijuana or recreational marijuana, 29:59.500 --> 30:07.840 and that's important because something like 80% of the arrests were for peaceful marijuana smokers or peaceful marijuana dealers. 30:08.680 --> 30:15.980 Because, you know, when you think about it, our law enforcement doesn't want to go after people that are hepped up on cocaine 30:15.980 --> 30:18.580 because they're truly crazy and they might fight back. 30:20.000 --> 30:24.500 People take marijuana generally are, you know, they're relaxing more. 30:25.020 --> 30:26.580 They're laid back for the most part. 30:27.400 --> 30:30.020 So, you know, we have made progress. 30:31.020 --> 30:35.600 We just haven't recognized that we have gotten some of our ideas elected. 30:35.940 --> 30:43.100 And that's really, I think, the way we need to proceed because most of us as libertarians are, 30:43.680 --> 30:46.280 well, at least in the early days, we're introverts. 30:46.600 --> 30:49.280 You know, we were nerds. 30:49.320 --> 30:56.460 And we had to be at that point in time because we had to be willing to stand up and say things that nobody else was saying. 30:57.100 --> 31:03.980 So if we weren't in a position to do that, then, you know, we probably weren't in the party. 31:05.000 --> 31:08.540 Now today, the libertarian party has become more mainstream. 31:08.540 --> 31:12.180 And that's especially true when you look at the younger libertarians. 31:12.620 --> 31:19.840 You know, they aren't so nerdy and they aren't maybe outliers in the social structure. 31:20.380 --> 31:26.240 They are, you know, mainstream, which is really great because obviously we need that. 31:26.480 --> 31:27.900 And that's the next step. 31:27.980 --> 31:30.120 It's the evolution in any movement, really. 31:30.120 --> 31:36.440 I mean, I can only imagine the first abolitionists were shunned and, you know, 31:37.220 --> 31:41.900 attacked for trying to overturn the natural way of things. 31:42.220 --> 31:47.100 And yet, you know, whose ideas actually got elected. 31:47.680 --> 31:49.920 The abolitionists, for the most part, did not. 31:50.440 --> 31:51.640 But the ideas did. 31:52.380 --> 31:53.480 The ideas got elected. 31:54.080 --> 31:56.880 So that's, I think, the strategy that we need to follow. 31:57.580 --> 31:58.360 Beautiful answer. 31:58.360 --> 31:59.540 I really appreciate that. 31:59.660 --> 32:00.400 That was well thought out. 32:01.080 --> 32:04.260 I agree 100% with your statement there. 32:04.720 --> 32:09.880 And it does feel like, yeah, we do need that philosophical foundation, which, you know, 32:09.960 --> 32:12.660 I don't feel like the left or the right really has anymore. 32:12.920 --> 32:18.440 They used to kind of rely on a certain level of idealism, if you want to call it maybe principle. 32:18.720 --> 32:22.460 That might be pushing it a little bit, but it doesn't feel like that really exists anymore. 32:22.720 --> 32:27.340 And yeah, I tend to agree as well that we do need to make more cultural headway. 32:27.340 --> 32:29.540 We need to make liberty cool again. 32:30.100 --> 32:33.000 And I think Ron Paul had good opportunity at that. 32:33.080 --> 32:35.600 And he certainly made some progress there, for sure. 32:36.140 --> 32:39.940 Especially when you're, you know, getting the younger generations to learn about economics. 32:40.120 --> 32:43.540 I mean, I think that spoke volumes as to his impact. 32:44.200 --> 32:51.300 Yeah, there has to be some type of cultural revolution to even get these ideas on more of the mainstream youth's radar. 32:51.300 --> 32:54.620 And I don't feel like we've been entirely successful with that. 32:54.620 --> 32:57.920 I think there is a shift starting to move in that direction. 32:58.220 --> 33:08.360 And especially, as you were saying, Dr. Ruebert, about, you know, even the president is echoing a lot of sentiments and ideas that have come from the libertarian camp over the past decade. 33:08.860 --> 33:20.640 And I feel like a lot of what created the atmosphere for Trump to win was based around a lot of the ideas and values that libertarians have been espousing for years. 33:20.640 --> 33:25.080 But unfortunately, it's been co-opted to a certain extent by the right, by the MAGA movement. 33:25.600 --> 33:27.440 And we just need to take those reins back. 33:27.560 --> 33:29.240 We need to take control over it. 33:29.300 --> 33:33.580 We might need a few more cultural figures, thought leaders who have the charisma. 33:34.320 --> 33:39.260 Of course, you know, if you look at Dr. Ron Paul, I mean, he certainly has a lot going for him. 33:39.300 --> 33:44.900 But I don't think he would be necessarily somebody who is labeled as cool by, you know, today's in-crowd. 33:44.900 --> 33:54.760 So I guess they don't necessarily have to be somebody who is within the mainstream confines and boundaries, but they still have to have some type of leadership qualities. 33:55.380 --> 34:04.680 And I think as soon as we have somebody who can do that and really resonate with people on a large scale, the ideas will speak for themselves. 34:04.920 --> 34:09.180 And as we've all noted here in the past half hour, that these ideas are popular. 34:09.180 --> 34:16.160 They are inherently instinctual to our species, it seems like, at least for the peaceful among us. 34:17.040 --> 34:21.640 So, you know, I think what the problem is, is not necessarily a lack of desire. 34:22.080 --> 34:28.140 It's a lack of imagination because people just aren't familiar with a lot of what libertarianism has to offer. 34:28.800 --> 34:35.440 And a lot of what we do here at the Freethod Project over the past decade has been accountability within law enforcement. 34:35.440 --> 34:44.260 And that's something, you know, that obviously has ebb and flowed as far as popularity goes, but it's something that we believe is incredibly important, 34:44.260 --> 34:53.860 mostly because of the reasons that we've already, you know, noted on this podcast that, you know, anytime there is taxation, funding, any type of government services, 34:53.940 --> 35:00.340 it turns into a monopoly, the quality goes down, the efficiency goes down, the effectiveness goes down. 35:00.340 --> 35:05.220 The reason why I bring up the law enforcement aspect of this is because I'm sure you're familiar with them. 35:06.460 --> 35:14.220 Mises contributor, he might even be a fellow there, I'm not quite sure, but he's economist Robert Murphy, Bob Murphy. 35:14.480 --> 35:17.860 Yeah, he had this great quote that's really stuck with me over the years. 35:18.320 --> 35:22.800 People think that they have to choose between having law enforcement and not having law enforcement. 35:23.180 --> 35:26.960 And sometimes cops overreacting is just the cost of living in a society of laws. 35:26.960 --> 35:31.560 He says, no, that's not the cost of living in a society of laws. 35:31.760 --> 35:36.020 That's the cost of living in a society with one group having a monopoly on law enforcement. 35:36.620 --> 35:37.020 Exactly. 35:37.660 --> 35:40.820 I think that's kind of the heart of the issue here. 35:41.120 --> 35:47.520 And I know you've spent a lot of time exploring how government policies, you know, shape our lives, including in the education system, 35:47.600 --> 35:51.960 you even spoke on this a few minutes ago, how you've actually even taught in these schools. 35:52.540 --> 35:59.800 So, you know, a lot of people assume that government-run public schools are necessary to educate children and prepare them for society. 36:00.380 --> 36:07.320 But then there's, you know, an element, especially within libertarianism that believe that the government-run schools encourage conformity, 36:07.580 --> 36:13.060 collectivism, the limit creativity, the instilled dependency rather than independent thinking. 36:13.380 --> 36:20.360 So I wanted to ask you from your perspective, like, what are the long-term impacts of government schooling on individuals in society? 36:20.360 --> 36:26.880 And like, how might a system based on voluntary and of decentralized community-driven education look like? 36:27.440 --> 36:31.840 And, you know, how can that benefit in terms of critical thinking and personal responsibility? 36:33.280 --> 36:41.760 Well, unfortunately, when you have government schools, which is what the public schools are, they're going to law government. 36:42.560 --> 36:46.040 I mean, there's going to be an element of propaganda in the schools. 36:46.740 --> 36:55.640 And also, because of the way the unions and everything work, they don't necessarily reward the best teachers. 36:56.520 --> 36:58.740 And that is a problem. 36:59.120 --> 37:05.740 In fact, in my chapter on education and healing our world, I go through some alternatives. 37:06.200 --> 37:12.620 You know, there's a number of groups that teach after-school classes, 37:12.620 --> 37:16.680 not just here in the U.S., but in Japan, it's a really big deal. 37:17.420 --> 37:25.260 And what they do, the teachers who are able to teach the best in Japan are actually quite lauded, 37:25.580 --> 37:30.660 but they're doing it as a private endeavor, not as a public school function. 37:31.200 --> 37:35.980 And that's sort of starting to happen here in a different way, 37:35.980 --> 37:43.540 because the Internet is allowing the best teachers to put together their plans 37:43.540 --> 37:46.480 and basically sell them to other teachers. 37:46.840 --> 37:50.960 And the teachers who are buying them, generally speaking, have been in the private sector 37:50.960 --> 37:56.400 because in the private sector, performance is really the end-all. 37:56.820 --> 38:02.620 If somebody can't teach when their students don't learn, then, you know, they don't have a job. 38:02.620 --> 38:12.780 Whereas in the public sector, it's seniority and other non-merit-based criteria that allow them to continue. 38:13.420 --> 38:16.940 And we've seen what happens when there's choice in schools. 38:17.180 --> 38:21.680 We've seen what happens with the private sector in terms of performance. 38:22.100 --> 38:29.060 I mean, even poor Catholic schools, you know, that are serving the communities 38:29.060 --> 38:34.500 that really are struggling, you know, the immigrants, the blacks, the Spanish, 38:34.760 --> 38:40.580 you know, they do so much better in the private schools, especially the religious schools, 38:40.720 --> 38:45.460 because there the teachers are there because they're passionate about teaching. 38:45.720 --> 38:52.420 And they're not restricted in the same way that the government schools restrict teachers. 38:52.420 --> 39:00.240 And today, with the technology we have, really, it would be very easy, 39:00.380 --> 39:04.780 and it is much easier for homeschooling to occur. 39:05.660 --> 39:10.600 So, you know, the children can sit down in front of the computer and learn a lesson, 39:10.600 --> 39:14.920 but if they get stuck, then, you know, the teacher has more time to work with them 39:14.920 --> 39:18.280 and suggest things, and even the programming can do that. 39:18.280 --> 39:23.160 When they see, for example, that a child can add and subtract and multiply, 39:23.340 --> 39:31.440 but has trouble with division, it can, you know, automatically bring more division to that student. 39:32.000 --> 39:35.920 And, of course, the teacher can step in if there's a conceptual problem 39:35.920 --> 39:40.240 that isn't solved by, you know, the computer programming. 39:40.480 --> 39:46.040 And we have so many tools today, but they aren't used in the most effective way that they could, 39:46.040 --> 39:49.980 at least in the public schools, and even in the private schools to some extent, 39:50.280 --> 39:55.040 their content is somewhat dictated still by the school boards. 39:55.860 --> 39:59.860 And so, you know, this creates a problem. 40:00.040 --> 40:06.140 I mean, in the U.S., you know, basically, when the children are in school, 40:06.360 --> 40:11.000 they've got this boring program that they have to sit still. 40:11.340 --> 40:14.580 You know, in other words, we're treating our children very unnaturally 40:15.160 --> 40:16.440 and how they learn. 40:17.120 --> 40:22.240 If a child gets interested in something, he or she wants to do it, you know, for hours on end. 40:22.360 --> 40:25.080 But we don't allow that. We're trying to break everything up. 40:25.360 --> 40:28.820 And this does not facilitate learning, and we know that. 40:28.880 --> 40:30.380 We've known that for a long time. 40:30.860 --> 40:35.340 And that's why some of the Montessori schools, which use a different way of, you know, 40:35.360 --> 40:39.420 they get the students interested and let them work on something for a little bit longer. 40:39.420 --> 40:45.440 But again, a lot of the things they have to do are dictated by the school boards still. 40:46.740 --> 40:53.720 So, I think, you know, basically what I did in Healing Our World is I calculated how much progress 40:54.420 --> 41:01.100 that a child would make in these after-school programs and how fast they're learning, 41:01.460 --> 41:05.280 you know, and we know that because they've been tested and things like that. 41:05.280 --> 41:11.140 So, you know, they were learning at a particular rate much faster in these after-school programs. 41:11.420 --> 41:18.300 And if you calculate how fast they could actually graduate, they could graduate from high school at 12. 41:19.600 --> 41:30.780 And what this means is that they would have a wonderful time to really dig into a career model 41:30.780 --> 41:33.180 that they wanted to follow. 41:33.180 --> 41:38.100 And really, we need that because, for example, when I was working at the Upjohn Company, 41:38.220 --> 41:43.140 we had a program for college students, you know, to do some research in our labs. 41:43.920 --> 41:51.140 And I remember particularly this one pre-med student who was already planning to go to med school when he graduated. 41:51.820 --> 41:54.540 So he came into my lab and we were a surgery lab. 41:55.180 --> 41:58.380 So, you know, we're doing surgery on rats and some dogs. 41:58.380 --> 42:04.020 And he goes, I never realized it, but I can't stand the sight of blood, even rat blood. 42:04.880 --> 42:08.960 Well, it's a little late to be learning that you've got a problem, you know. 42:09.200 --> 42:17.460 And so, we don't do apprenticeships or take our young people and put them in, you know, 42:18.640 --> 42:24.700 I don't want to say full job situations, but we don't put them as an apprentice in jobs. 42:24.700 --> 42:30.560 And we need to do that because it's really difficult for a young person today 42:30.560 --> 42:35.280 to know what's out there, what they should train for, what their interests truly are 42:35.280 --> 42:39.880 because they don't have the experience of actually interacting in a work situation. 42:40.840 --> 42:54.600 At least, you know, until they're 16, I remember I wanted to work so badly when I was young 42:54.600 --> 42:59.040 but, you know, I enjoyed seeing if I could put a smile on people's faces 42:59.040 --> 43:03.460 because they came in to eat a meal and, you know, for me that would have been a luxury at the time 43:04.060 --> 43:06.480 and they seemed to be sad, you know. 43:06.900 --> 43:11.040 Their everyday problems were, you know, weighing them down 43:11.040 --> 43:16.080 and so my goal was to see if I could give them the kind of service that would put a smile on their face. 43:16.600 --> 43:24.140 And I had some success at that and I really enjoyed working that way. 43:24.140 --> 43:30.480 You know, that made a kind of what most people would think is a dead-end job to be something exciting. 43:30.960 --> 43:35.740 And this is the kind of experience that we need our young people to have. 43:35.860 --> 43:41.760 So they have an idea of what can be and what isn't anywhere near in their interest. 43:43.060 --> 43:46.780 And they don't need to find out, you know, when they're graduating from college. 43:47.320 --> 43:49.260 They need to find out much earlier than that. 43:49.260 --> 43:52.820 Yeah, I agree like wholeheartedly with that. 43:52.900 --> 43:56.720 And I think that we're seeing a flux in society with that. 43:56.840 --> 44:01.740 I know COVID was a large accelerant on that fire of homeschooling 44:01.740 --> 44:07.680 and getting people to wake up to the Department of Education and the course of nature of it, you know. 44:08.280 --> 44:13.820 But I think now it's getting politicized yet once again with the right and the left 44:13.820 --> 44:15.760 and that's really, you know, terrible. 44:15.760 --> 44:19.240 But ultimately it comes down to the parent, right? 44:19.980 --> 44:23.600 And the parent's going to make the decision for the child to either be homeschooled 44:23.600 --> 44:28.260 or go to a state coercion school where they're indoctrinated into militarism 44:28.260 --> 44:30.860 and everything else that makes them not question anything, right? 44:31.000 --> 44:34.040 But I want to drill down on that concept of peaceful parenting 44:34.040 --> 44:38.400 because it feels fundamental to everything that we're discussing so far today. 44:38.720 --> 44:41.320 It's not just a parenting style, right? 44:41.320 --> 44:45.440 It's a profound and political and philosophical statement that you make. 44:45.760 --> 44:49.940 You're essentially applying the non-aggression principle at home and in the family 44:49.940 --> 44:56.980 and raising a child to be a sovereign individual who understands consent rather than force 44:56.980 --> 45:02.940 and isn't some compliance subject ready to obey authority without question, right? 45:03.480 --> 45:05.380 Anyway, that's how I look at it. 45:05.440 --> 45:07.280 That's my philosophy in our house, right? 45:07.940 --> 45:10.440 The state's education system is contrary to that, right? 45:10.440 --> 45:12.620 It's built on the opposite principle, coercion. 45:13.020 --> 45:16.420 It's a factory model designed to serve the state, not the child. 45:16.820 --> 45:20.260 But if we reject that model, you know, it seems the next logical step 45:20.260 --> 45:22.500 isn't just homeschooling or isolation. 45:23.060 --> 45:25.780 But like what you mentioned, something very interesting, 45:26.180 --> 45:27.860 the network thing that you were talking about 45:27.860 --> 45:29.860 where people pass along these things that are working, 45:30.640 --> 45:33.060 is it seems like that's the next logical step 45:33.060 --> 45:36.320 is to build a new voluntary ecosystem entirely. 45:37.480 --> 45:39.180 So with that as the foundation, 45:39.180 --> 45:42.380 what do you see as like the most critical first steps for parents 45:42.380 --> 45:45.760 looking to create these decentralized learning networks 45:45.760 --> 45:47.600 that you really grab my attention on that. 45:47.720 --> 45:50.700 I love these underground, not underground necessarily, 45:50.940 --> 45:54.680 but these networking ideas that pass this information around. 45:54.820 --> 45:56.020 So looking further down the road, 45:56.420 --> 46:00.280 what does a successful thriving ecosystem of this voluntary education 46:00.280 --> 46:02.200 built on the principles of peaceful parenting 46:02.200 --> 46:03.620 actually look like in practice? 46:04.500 --> 46:07.480 Well, I think it can look, 46:07.840 --> 46:10.820 well, it can look a little different in different places 46:10.820 --> 46:13.240 simply because of the interests of the child. 46:13.800 --> 46:15.960 But let me give you an example of something 46:15.960 --> 46:18.420 that we're considering at Liberty International. 46:19.880 --> 46:23.660 You know, we are working with a group that has got 46:23.660 --> 46:26.100 AI designing courses, 46:26.600 --> 46:29.420 but it'll design libertarian courses 46:29.420 --> 46:31.080 if you give it the right instructions. 46:31.080 --> 46:35.280 And you know, I'd like to see this in the private schools 46:35.820 --> 46:37.500 of the developing countries 46:37.500 --> 46:39.320 because in the developing countries 46:39.320 --> 46:42.200 the public schools are even worse than they are in the U.S. 46:42.540 --> 46:45.540 I mean, basically the teachers don't always show up, right? 46:46.020 --> 46:47.800 So what is that word? 46:47.980 --> 46:48.800 Does that leave the children? 46:49.060 --> 46:52.120 So in spite of the fact that these are very poor communities, 46:52.500 --> 46:56.240 there is a big push to have private schools. 46:56.660 --> 46:58.860 And these are small private schools probably 46:58.860 --> 47:02.140 in most situations maybe 30 students or so. 47:03.280 --> 47:08.420 But you know, that's what's necessary there 47:08.420 --> 47:09.820 for their children to learn. 47:10.560 --> 47:14.140 And so it's going to be a little different in every country. 47:14.460 --> 47:17.820 In the U.S., our advantage is we have the technology. 47:18.740 --> 47:25.160 You know, we have technology that can really enable 47:25.160 --> 47:30.280 an average parent to work with many children at one time 47:30.280 --> 47:32.180 almost like a classroom situation 47:33.060 --> 47:35.680 if we use the technology properly. 47:35.920 --> 47:37.680 I described it a little bit earlier. 47:38.460 --> 47:42.580 But of course the government doesn't allow 47:42.580 --> 47:44.460 certain things like that. 47:44.500 --> 47:46.520 In other words, in many states 47:47.680 --> 47:50.480 the people who are teaching homeschooling 47:50.480 --> 47:52.380 have to have a teaching degree, 47:52.380 --> 47:55.660 which I can tell you is at least at Michigan State 47:55.660 --> 47:57.900 where I went, you know, we kind of looked down 47:57.900 --> 47:59.620 on the people who were learning to teach 47:59.620 --> 48:03.720 because it was kind of like if they can't do, they teach things. 48:04.280 --> 48:08.520 And this has gotten worse in my opinion. 48:08.760 --> 48:10.900 In other words, the teachers don't seem to know 48:11.800 --> 48:15.300 the very things they're trying to teach. 48:15.700 --> 48:17.480 There's been some testing on this 48:17.480 --> 48:20.520 and I cite some of the studies in Healing Our World 48:20.520 --> 48:24.540 where the teachers themselves could not pass the finals 48:24.540 --> 48:27.340 that the students were expected to pass. 48:28.180 --> 48:29.180 That's pretty scary. 48:30.100 --> 48:34.880 So if that's what we're going to have for our teachers 48:34.880 --> 48:38.460 then the computers are probably a little superior, 48:38.940 --> 48:41.240 especially if they're programmed properly. 48:42.480 --> 48:45.520 But the parents have to be involved 48:45.520 --> 48:48.160 and that's another problem the government's created. 48:48.160 --> 48:50.660 Back in the days when I was a child 48:52.500 --> 48:55.500 women in general stayed home with the children 48:56.160 --> 49:01.220 and they could do that because 49:02.040 --> 49:04.240 one income was enough to live on. 49:04.420 --> 49:06.300 Now with inflation and everything else 49:06.300 --> 49:07.820 two parents are working 49:07.820 --> 49:12.020 and they're paying a lot of money that they make 49:12.020 --> 49:15.880 to put their children in a daycare 49:15.880 --> 49:17.560 or after school care. 49:20.020 --> 49:22.900 The government has created a situation 49:23.400 --> 49:25.360 where they've taken so much of our wealth. 49:26.220 --> 49:28.560 It should have been the opposite way by now. 49:28.920 --> 49:32.680 If the government had just stayed as the size it was 49:34.800 --> 49:36.920 after World War II and didn't grow 49:39.060 --> 49:41.960 very few of us would probably have to work full time 49:42.760 --> 49:44.460 and that would be really good. 49:44.460 --> 49:48.340 And also we could work out of our home to some extent. 49:48.640 --> 49:51.540 There's a lot of states and cities 49:51.540 --> 49:54.260 that outlaw working from home believe it or not. 49:54.560 --> 49:57.080 And when COVID, everyone had to stay home and work 49:57.960 --> 50:00.320 became quite apparent that these laws 50:00.320 --> 50:02.960 were very destructive to home businesses 50:02.960 --> 50:07.580 and really clashed with the instructions to stay home. 50:08.420 --> 50:08.680 Right. 50:09.440 --> 50:11.560 So there's that too. 50:11.560 --> 50:15.240 The problem is, and this is what most people don't see 50:15.240 --> 50:18.280 when the government takes so much of our wealth 50:18.760 --> 50:21.240 it really hinders our ability to be good parents 50:21.240 --> 50:24.220 because if we're away at work we're not with a child. 50:25.360 --> 50:25.760 Absolutely. 50:26.280 --> 50:28.680 Wonderful points and this is something that 50:28.680 --> 50:30.320 we've really spent a lot of time 50:30.320 --> 50:32.720 sinking our teeth into here at the Free Thought Project 50:32.720 --> 50:35.480 because we really do try to 50:35.480 --> 50:37.500 well I know Matt and myself personally 50:37.500 --> 50:39.680 try to raise our children with that type of respect 50:39.680 --> 50:41.860 with the peaceful parenting paradigm 50:41.860 --> 50:44.960 and I believe it's just going to change 50:44.960 --> 50:46.820 the course of society altogether 50:46.820 --> 50:49.440 because we oftentimes think about 50:49.440 --> 50:52.140 well what are things we could do to preserve our freedom? 50:52.280 --> 50:53.840 Well we know that owning guns are important. 50:54.040 --> 50:55.540 We know maybe owning crypto 50:55.540 --> 50:57.780 or precious metals are important 50:57.780 --> 50:59.720 but a lot of people don't necessarily focus 50:59.720 --> 51:03.240 on the simple idea of how they're raising their children 51:03.240 --> 51:04.900 because if we are raising our children 51:04.900 --> 51:06.980 under the authoritarian principles 51:06.980 --> 51:09.400 the authoritarian parenting paradigm 51:09.400 --> 51:10.980 then ultimately what we're doing 51:10.980 --> 51:12.840 is we're creating more children 51:12.840 --> 51:14.260 who are going to be order followers 51:14.260 --> 51:16.020 who aren't going to be able to think critically 51:16.020 --> 51:19.260 who automatically adhere to 51:19.260 --> 51:20.580 perceived authority 51:20.580 --> 51:23.040 and they won't ever think or question that 51:23.040 --> 51:25.700 and so that's not what we're trying to do 51:25.700 --> 51:27.120 at least you know Matt and myself 51:27.120 --> 51:28.980 and that's not what the Free Thought Project 51:28.980 --> 51:31.040 is trying to do and we've had amazing guests 51:31.040 --> 51:32.780 on Connor Boyack 51:32.780 --> 51:35.040 the founder of the Tuttle Twins 51:35.040 --> 51:36.340 to talk about this 51:36.340 --> 51:37.580 we've also talked with Dana Martin 51:38.320 --> 51:40.760 she's an amazing unschooling advocate 51:40.760 --> 51:42.680 so definitely check out those podcasts 51:42.680 --> 51:44.160 guys if you haven't listened to those 51:44.160 --> 51:46.420 just go back in our archives, scroll back a little bit 51:46.420 --> 51:48.020 and listen to them especially if you're a parent 51:48.020 --> 51:49.640 so very important 51:49.640 --> 51:52.700 because it really is going to shift 51:52.700 --> 51:54.860 and re-correct the course 51:54.860 --> 51:56.720 on this path that we're on 51:56.720 --> 51:58.740 and everything that Dr. Ruart was saying 51:58.740 --> 52:00.620 is 100% spot on 52:00.620 --> 52:03.120 we've kind of handed over 52:03.120 --> 52:05.340 the reins of something as important 52:05.340 --> 52:06.580 as raising our children 52:06.580 --> 52:08.860 and spending that time with them, connecting with them 52:08.860 --> 52:10.760 having that free time with them 52:10.760 --> 52:13.080 to be able to actually explain things 52:13.080 --> 52:14.640 and share intimate details 52:14.640 --> 52:16.260 and nuance about life 52:16.260 --> 52:18.400 that's where the real schooling comes in 52:18.400 --> 52:20.360 it's not the arithmetic or the 52:20.360 --> 52:22.300 writing and stuff that they learn at these 52:22.300 --> 52:24.060 public school indoctrination centers 52:24.060 --> 52:25.960 some of that obviously is valuable 52:25.960 --> 52:28.400 but the real teaching 52:28.400 --> 52:30.340 education comes from the one-on-one time 52:30.340 --> 52:31.280 that we spend with our children 52:31.280 --> 52:34.060 and I think that's been entirely overlooked 52:34.060 --> 52:35.700 as far as a 52:36.400 --> 52:37.940 mechanism to advocate 52:37.940 --> 52:39.500 for freedom and create more 52:40.120 --> 52:41.060 liberty in our society 52:41.060 --> 52:43.100 we are getting low on time here 52:43.100 --> 52:44.840 and we do have a couple more questions 52:44.840 --> 52:47.440 we always end the podcast on a white pill 52:47.440 --> 52:49.840 positive note if you will 52:49.840 --> 52:51.700 and Matt will be serving that up in a second 52:51.700 --> 52:53.100 but I did want to kind of 52:53.100 --> 52:55.060 maybe have a general 52:55.060 --> 52:57.520 summarization and encapsulation here 52:57.520 --> 52:59.460 of what we've been talking about 52:59.460 --> 53:01.460 and obviously we know we've been talking a lot 53:01.460 --> 53:02.460 about personal freedom 53:02.460 --> 53:05.320 and the ways individuals can live outside 53:05.320 --> 53:07.540 of the influence of these course of 53:07.540 --> 53:08.800 systems but 53:09.480 --> 53:11.560 let's get into the nitty-gritty because as we were talking 53:11.560 --> 53:13.620 about sometimes it's not a lack of desire 53:13.620 --> 53:15.460 it's a lack of imagination right so 53:15.460 --> 53:17.760 some people advocate for strategies 53:17.760 --> 53:19.360 like agorism or 53:19.360 --> 53:21.660 opting out completely of government controlled 53:21.660 --> 53:23.480 systems by using 53:23.480 --> 53:25.260 voluntary markets and alternative 53:25.260 --> 53:27.160 currencies I think I just touched on that 53:27.160 --> 53:28.560 with crypto and stuff like that 53:29.220 --> 53:30.960 decentralized community networks 53:30.960 --> 53:33.240 to basically minimize reliance 53:33.240 --> 53:35.240 on the state so I was hoping from 53:35.240 --> 53:37.260 your perspective you know like what do you 53:37.260 --> 53:39.160 think about these approaches like how effective 53:39.160 --> 53:41.480 is an idea like agorism 53:41.480 --> 53:43.200 in promoting 53:43.200 --> 53:44.840 real freedom and 53:44.840 --> 53:47.200 what practical advice would you give to people 53:47.200 --> 53:49.000 who want to build a more independent 53:49.000 --> 53:50.840 self-sufficient life 53:50.840 --> 53:53.080 outside of the traditional state system 53:53.080 --> 53:54.780 yeah I mean 53:54.780 --> 53:56.300 I think we need 53:56.760 --> 53:59.040 all these different types of approaches 53:59.040 --> 54:01.000 that's how I think 54:01.000 --> 54:01.940 we will prevail 54:01.940 --> 54:05.000 I don't think there's like a silver bullet 54:05.000 --> 54:07.100 where everybody should be doing 54:07.100 --> 54:07.860 one thing 54:07.860 --> 54:10.000 some of us need to 54:10.980 --> 54:12.500 teach or suggest 54:13.320 --> 54:14.680 ways that 54:14.680 --> 54:16.140 you know because we're 54:16.140 --> 54:18.680 good with our words or our writing 54:18.680 --> 54:21.280 some of us need to actually get down 54:21.280 --> 54:23.520 a dirty in the soil and show people 54:23.520 --> 54:25.680 how they can be totally self-sufficient 54:25.680 --> 54:27.440 and I guess 54:27.440 --> 54:28.780 since we're talking about 54:28.780 --> 54:31.100 ending on a optimistic 54:31.100 --> 54:32.960 note I'd like to say 54:32.960 --> 54:35.020 that from my science perspective 54:35.020 --> 54:36.820 I believe 54:37.740 --> 54:38.460 that 54:39.280 --> 54:41.500 with the communications we have 54:41.500 --> 54:42.740 today with the internet 54:43.280 --> 54:45.480 it's becoming increasingly obvious 54:45.480 --> 54:47.300 that the way to prosperity 54:47.300 --> 54:48.260 is liberty 54:49.000 --> 54:50.080 physical prosperity 54:50.780 --> 54:52.460 and you know I've always 54:52.460 --> 54:54.200 kind of thought that if 54:54.200 --> 54:55.420 the US goes down 54:56.090 --> 54:58.080 there's been some certainly during 54:58.080 --> 54:59.880 the Biden years that sure looked like it might 54:59.880 --> 55:01.620 I would think that 55:02.380 --> 55:03.940 some developing country 55:03.940 --> 55:05.460 might say you know what 55:06.090 --> 55:07.380 we're sick of being poor 55:08.070 --> 55:10.220 and now we know how we can be 55:10.220 --> 55:11.740 rich so let's do it 55:12.250 --> 55:13.100 and in fact 55:13.100 --> 55:15.540 Argentina which used to be a prosperous 55:15.540 --> 55:17.540 country until socialism hit it 55:17.540 --> 55:19.080 has elected 55:19.080 --> 55:21.580 a libertarian president Javier Malay 55:21.580 --> 55:23.580 and Liberty International 55:23.580 --> 55:25.600 the organization that I chair 55:25.600 --> 55:27.280 used to be known as the International 55:27.280 --> 55:29.340 Society for Individual Liberty 55:29.340 --> 55:31.360 and by the way 55:31.360 --> 55:33.300 it trained people in 55:33.300 --> 55:35.520 the libertarian thought process 55:35.520 --> 55:37.580 ease and different issue papers 55:37.580 --> 55:39.140 that's how I learned about 55:39.140 --> 55:41.100 liberty you know beyond 55:41.100 --> 55:43.340 my experience with I&Ran 55:43.340 --> 55:46.000 we went to Argentina this year 55:46.880 --> 55:48.120 we awarded 55:48.120 --> 55:49.480 Javier Malay 55:49.480 --> 55:50.560 an award 55:51.800 --> 55:53.940 and I think that 55:53.940 --> 55:55.440 you know like I said 55:55.440 --> 55:56.960 we need all these approaches 55:56.960 --> 55:59.480 and Javier 55:59.480 --> 56:01.100 is a very outspoken 56:01.100 --> 56:03.060 he was invited 56:03.060 --> 56:05.160 by Schwab to the 56:05.160 --> 56:07.740 World Economic Forum which I thought was 56:07.740 --> 56:09.380 thought gee maybe 56:09.380 --> 56:11.560 he doesn't know much about libertarianism 56:11.560 --> 56:12.380 if he did that 56:13.550 --> 56:13.980 and 56:15.200 --> 56:16.700 Malay gave a talk 56:16.700 --> 56:19.520 and basically 56:19.520 --> 56:20.740 eventually 56:21.560 --> 56:22.920 told Schwab that 56:23.390 --> 56:25.020 the economic forum 56:25.290 --> 56:26.760 was part of the problem 56:27.250 --> 56:28.700 he was very outspoken 56:29.150 --> 56:31.240 as a consequence Schwab said 56:31.240 --> 56:32.960 that the reason that the 56:32.960 --> 56:34.960 economic forum 56:34.960 --> 56:36.900 the World Economic Forum could not 56:36.900 --> 56:39.140 implement its ideas 56:39.140 --> 56:40.820 was because of libertarians 56:41.620 --> 56:42.800 we couldn't have gotten 56:42.800 --> 56:44.420 better advertising than that 56:45.140 --> 56:47.160 so what I'm trying to tell you 56:47.160 --> 56:47.660 is 56:48.860 --> 56:50.220 libertarianism is attractive 56:50.220 --> 56:51.980 because it creates prosperity 56:51.980 --> 56:52.840 it creates peace 56:52.840 --> 56:56.040 and as people wake up to this 56:56.040 --> 56:57.560 they're going to want it 56:57.560 --> 57:00.620 it's part of our human evolution 57:01.140 --> 57:02.720 you know we started out 57:02.720 --> 57:04.780 having probably to work 57:04.780 --> 57:06.900 with each other because we're so few humans 57:06.900 --> 57:09.100 and then we started fighting 57:09.100 --> 57:10.960 with each other because there were a lot 57:10.960 --> 57:12.820 of them and we wanted what the others 57:12.820 --> 57:14.480 had and now 57:14.480 --> 57:16.780 I think we're coming to a point 57:17.460 --> 57:19.060 where we see that 57:19.060 --> 57:20.960 the pie is not 57:20.960 --> 57:22.920 a particular size 57:22.920 --> 57:24.080 the pie can grow 57:24.080 --> 57:25.760 the wealth pie can grow 57:25.760 --> 57:28.080 and the way to do that is to have liberty 57:28.780 --> 57:30.560 and once this is all put together 57:30.560 --> 57:33.100 and the internet is helping to make that happen 57:33.100 --> 57:34.320 I think 57:34.320 --> 57:36.660 we will have more and more people embracing 57:36.660 --> 57:37.820 the libertarian ethic 57:37.820 --> 57:40.060 assuming of course we don't blow ourselves up 57:40.060 --> 57:42.220 first I mean I guess that is an option 57:42.780 --> 57:43.760 but I know 57:43.760 --> 57:45.800 that we will eventually 57:46.320 --> 57:48.460 be libertarians as a species 57:48.460 --> 57:49.060 because 57:49.980 --> 57:52.120 that's what makes us thrive 57:52.720 --> 57:54.300 you know grow and thrive 57:54.300 --> 57:56.120 so we're going to do it 57:56.120 --> 57:59.160 if we can manage not to blow ourselves up first 58:01.000 --> 58:02.720 I agree very well said 58:02.720 --> 58:03.380 Dr. Ruert 58:03.380 --> 58:05.840 I remain hopeful like that too 58:05.840 --> 58:07.760 and it's these ideas that give me hope 58:07.760 --> 58:10.100 and they're rapid adoption 58:10.100 --> 58:11.900 once they are accepted 58:11.900 --> 58:13.780 and studied by those 58:13.780 --> 58:15.080 willing to do that 58:15.080 --> 58:17.600 hey free thinkers, this is Matt Agarist 58:17.600 --> 58:20.460 and I'm going to take a quick pause to remind you of something really important 58:20.460 --> 58:22.840 first off, apologies for the interruption 58:22.840 --> 58:24.220 but if you're still here 58:24.220 --> 58:26.380 that means you're resonating with what we're doing 58:26.380 --> 58:28.600 and we need your help to keep it alive 58:28.600 --> 58:30.720 independent platforms like ours 58:30.720 --> 58:32.520 don't survive on corporate sponsorships 58:32.520 --> 58:34.120 or mainstream media funding 58:34.580 --> 58:35.960 we survive because of you 58:36.700 --> 58:39.140 if you're finding value in these unfiltered conversations 58:39.140 --> 58:40.220 and real solutions 58:40.580 --> 58:42.580 the best way to support us is by liking 58:42.580 --> 58:44.820 subscribing and sharing this podcast 58:44.820 --> 58:46.500 with your friends and fellow free thinkers 58:46.500 --> 58:49.100 it's a small act but it's a powerful one 58:49.100 --> 58:50.900 it helps us break through the censorship 58:50.900 --> 58:53.380 and algorithms designed to silence voices 58:53.380 --> 58:54.000 like ours 58:55.200 --> 58:57.380 this isn't just about supporting a podcast 58:57.380 --> 58:59.320 it's about standing for freedom 58:59.320 --> 59:00.360 exposing corruption 59:00.360 --> 59:03.040 and building a movement that inspires real change 59:03.580 --> 59:05.440 and if you want to go beyond liking 59:05.440 --> 59:07.620 and sharing we'd love for you to become a member 59:07.620 --> 59:08.660 of the Free Thought Project 59:09.220 --> 59:11.440 just head over to the freethoughtproject.com 59:11.440 --> 59:13.220 and click on the TFTP 59:13.220 --> 59:15.380 membership link at the top of the page 59:15.380 --> 59:17.440 as a member you'll be directly 59:17.440 --> 59:19.460 supporting our mission and helping us to stay 59:19.460 --> 59:21.760 independent your support is what keeps 59:21.760 --> 59:23.400 this platform alive and fighting 59:23.400 --> 59:25.260 so thank you for being 59:25.260 --> 59:27.580 part of this journey for sharing these ideas 59:27.580 --> 59:29.140 and for standing with us 59:29.880 --> 59:31.240 look before we let you go 59:31.240 --> 59:33.060 I just want to say thank you 59:33.060 --> 59:35.180 thank you for your decades of service to 59:35.180 --> 59:37.700 the cause of liberty you're like a factory 59:37.700 --> 59:39.040 for these great ideas 59:39.040 --> 59:41.400 and your work has been an inspiration 59:41.400 --> 59:42.820 to so many of us 59:42.820 --> 59:44.620 we'll be linking your books in the description 59:44.620 --> 59:47.240 and I encourage everyone who's listening right now 59:47.240 --> 59:49.180 to go down there click the links and dive in 59:49.180 --> 59:51.500 it's ideas like the ones you've shared today 59:51.500 --> 59:52.860 that continue to give me hope 59:52.860 --> 59:54.560 and I'm sure others as well 59:54.560 --> 59:55.720 in fact 59:55.720 --> 59:58.360 this whole conversation feels like a white pill 59:58.360 --> 01:00:00.340 like I'm supposed to end on a white pill right now 01:00:00.340 --> 01:00:02.400 but Jason just asked like basically 01:00:02.400 --> 01:00:04.240 what I was going to ask but that doesn't even matter 01:00:04.240 --> 01:00:06.640 it was I don't think I can out do that one 01:00:06.640 --> 01:00:07.500 we focused like 01:00:07.500 --> 01:00:10.480 on positive constructive solutions 01:00:10.480 --> 01:00:12.180 you know built on the non-aggression 01:00:12.180 --> 01:00:13.920 principle this entire 01:00:14.640 --> 01:00:16.240 discussion we've had today so 01:00:16.240 --> 01:00:18.320 this isn't about ending on a positive note 01:00:18.320 --> 01:00:20.420 this is a positive note us having 01:00:20.420 --> 01:00:22.220 these discussions is the positive note 01:00:22.220 --> 01:00:24.480 and it's about continuing 01:00:24.480 --> 01:00:26.160 that positivity to the end right 01:00:26.160 --> 01:00:28.600 and you know there's 01:00:28.600 --> 01:00:30.260 your answer just killed it 01:00:30.260 --> 01:00:32.540 the practical steps people can take to build a freer world 01:00:32.540 --> 01:00:34.080 I couldn't possibly 01:00:34.080 --> 01:00:36.200 follow that up but I was trying to think of a better 01:00:36.200 --> 01:00:37.940 question to make that to top that but 01:00:37.940 --> 01:00:39.960 you did such a great job 01:00:39.960 --> 01:00:42.060 that was the perfect note 01:00:42.060 --> 01:00:44.320 of agency and action to end on 01:00:44.320 --> 01:00:45.680 so with that said 01:00:46.340 --> 01:00:48.180 Dr. Ruer where can people go 01:00:48.180 --> 01:00:49.820 and find your books your websites 01:00:49.820 --> 01:00:52.180 and follow all the incredible work 01:00:52.180 --> 01:00:52.580 that you do 01:00:53.490 --> 01:00:55.740 well my personal website is 01:00:55.740 --> 01:00:57.040 ruart.com 01:00:57.040 --> 01:00:59.040 it's my last name dot com 01:00:59.040 --> 01:01:02.700 r-u-w-a-r-t 01:01:02.700 --> 01:01:03.580 dot com 01:01:03.580 --> 01:01:05.560 and I'd like to make a plug 01:01:05.560 --> 01:01:07.780 for Liberty International a lot of my time 01:01:07.780 --> 01:01:09.860 has spent working with them as chair 01:01:09.860 --> 01:01:11.380 and that 01:01:11.380 --> 01:01:13.180 URL is liberty 01:01:13.610 --> 01:01:15.880 hyphen i-n-t-l 01:01:15.880 --> 01:01:16.580 dot org 01:01:17.700 --> 01:01:18.820 liberty hyphen 01:01:18.820 --> 01:01:21.040 i-n-t-l 01:01:21.040 --> 01:01:21.940 dot org 01:01:23.180 --> 01:01:24.920 awesome well thank you so much 01:01:24.920 --> 01:01:26.660 for coming on today like Jason said 01:01:26.660 --> 01:01:28.440 it's been a work in the making for quite some time 01:01:28.440 --> 01:01:30.700 and it certainly won't disappoint 01:01:30.700 --> 01:01:32.840 it was a great conversation Dr. Ruer 01:01:32.840 --> 01:01:33.460 thank you 01:01:33.460 --> 01:01:34.480 thank you 01:01:51.130 --> 01:01:52.930 free people