We're going to have a guest on later too, it's our first ever guest.
Another friend of mine, Raphael Laverde, expert in crypto and crypto anarchism, a great libertarian,
great anarchist.
We shared the stage at the Miami Crypto Experience a few years back where we spoke about crypto
and stuff like that, so we're going to be doing something similar tonight, get his
take on the volatility in the crypto markets, the law fair cases going on, and what
he thinks about what the next four years of Trump has to do with crypto, how it's going
to push the markets.
We have my main man, Raphael Laverde.
Adam, meet Raph, Raph meet Adam.
Nice to meet you, Raph, how you doing?
Hey, what's up, Adam?
I can't see you guys.
I'll probably look on my phone, but I can hear you very well.
You're doing pretty good, and I'm honored to be here, guys.
Thank you for having me as your first guest.
Yes, our first ever guest.
We haven't done any guests before, but I mentioned we have Alex Vidal is going to be helping us
produce the show now, and he's going to help sort of manage things behind the scenes.
He thinks it would be a good idea, so we went with it, and Raph is somebody we both
know, and Raph and I have worked together before, and I know he knows his shit,
so I'm comfortable lending the audience's ear to him, because he's one of the most knowledgeable
people in the crypto industry, and I don't say that lightly.
I know you guys at home, I don't think you can see Raph, but you can hear him.
Thank you for having me.
I'm really happy to be your first guest.
Yeah, man, that's fucking great.
So tell me, just tell the audience a little bit about who you are and what you do,
and tell Adam, he's never mentioned before, this is my man, Irish Adam.
Yeah, just give us a little brief interest.
Everybody gets to know you like I do.
All right, well, I'm I'm an early I want to look at you guys
while I talk to you, so I'm just going to look at you on my phone.
Maybe a little delayed, but.
OK, sounds good.
Well, look, I'm I'm happy to be here.
My name is Rafael.
I am an early Bitcoin adopter.
I became up, you know, Jeff Burwick and I became friends in like 2012, 2013.
And a long story short, we figured that we needed to educate people on crypto.
And so we started a within our personal research.
We were like, you know, let's just do a newsletter.
So we have the crypto vigilante.
Best crypto newsletter around, by the way, guys.
Thank you.
Thank you for saying that.
I really think so as well, because we're agris, we're
anarcho capitalists and we really embrace and we live and we invest in
accordance to to those principles of following the Austrian business cycle.
And having a big picture understanding of not just crypto,
but also gold, silver, precious metals, junior mining stocks.
So it really sets us apart is dollar vigilante, because if you just
focus on crypto and once you make a lot of money in crypto,
most people wouldn't know where to turn when we actually have a whole
full a whole newsletter, which is a dollar vigilante itself that allows us
to understand how to best embrace the overall market.
A lot of people focus just on crypto because it is it is the fat.
It is what's what's what's hip.
It's what gives us the biggest return.
It's really any any sound money alternative, right?
Pardon?
It's really, you know, as libertarians, if you if you want to profit off
of the nonsense going on going on at the Federal Reserve, it's really sort
of any non-inflationary or sound money alternative, any non-inflationary asset
or sound money alternative.
Would you agree with that?
Correct. Yes.
Yeah.
So so our job is to educate really and to invest as best as possible
in accordance to sound monetary principles, Austrian economics, understanding
understanding the the economy from the from an Austrian economic perspective.
We're very blessed to have teamed up with Jeff Berwick and Ed Bougos,
who are our Ed is our director of research.
And when it comes to applying Austrian economic principles to investing,
he's the man in experience and knowledge.
On this on on theory, when things are most pivotal and crucial,
becomes the most practical of things that you can possess.
So we can be very up to speed with crypto as as as crypto as bitcoiners
and understand the crypto market itself.
But there are moments in time when when you have to make decisions
and it is at those moments where it doesn't matter what present day knowledge
you have, what matters is your experience.
So so having Jeff and Ed as people that we can
they do things that we don't expect them to do that wouldn't occur to us
because we're younger because we don't have the experience.
Although we have the knowledge, the skill and the I'm all this shit, bro.
Speak for yourself. I'm almost 40 now.
You're still young.
I mean, and for example,
we one of the things that like Ed has been really harping on recently,
which makes me reconsider the whole state of the market is how
bullish the trend for the dollar and the stock market has been for decades now.
Since like the 80s, 70s, people have only had have really had like an upward
Well, that's because they that's because they're always printing and printing and printing.
They're just basically, you know, ever see those one of those one of those things
that people used to fan their fireplace, one of those fucking accordion things.
That's basically what they're doing with the economy and the stock market.
They're just pumping it up full of freshly printed money.
Raph, I'm going to pick your brain though a little bit on crypto here.
I want I got I got a few questions for you.
The first thing I think I say on everybody's mind, including my own is
I want to know what you make of the recent price action in the crypto markets.
I'm getting fucking murdered over here. I'm getting hammered.
I'm going to be out in the street begging for fucking food pretty soon.
If these coins don't bounce, buddy, what's the deal?
Am I going to make my money back or am I going to be homeless?
Well, if you're uncomfortable with the volatility now,
you know, hold on tighter because we're going to experience a lot more
volatility for the rest of the market.
Yeah, it's going to be crazy.
It's going to we're going to shoot up to, you know,
up to 200,000 in BTC and come right back down to like 150.
That's the type of volatility that we should expect
with in the euphoria of like the last leg up of the bull run.
Same thing with the altcoin market.
So we live in a world where everyone's trying to manipulate you.
We live in a world where everything is a player versus player experience,
especially in Bitcoin and crypto.
And even if I was not part of the founding team for the crypto vigilante
and part of the dollar vigilante,
like I would be seeking out something private like that
where I could have the reputation of guys like me
and the team to hold accountable for how they for the research that they offer.
Because right now, if I just if I were just you or I,
we're just to go into any chat on telegram on this court.
You know, do you can you really trust the people there on the other end?
Oh, God, no.
Those are the most untrustworthy people in crypto.
You ever get added to those fucking telegram groups?
You ever get added to those like spammy telegram groups
where it's like or the WhatsApp groups where they just try to like
the whole thing is a fucking nightmare.
So go ahead.
I'd be looking for something private.
I'd be looking for something where I am part of a club of a membership
of reputable analysts.
And that's what we've been able to offer the world as as as the crypto vigilante
as as a dollar vigilante and our latest product,
which is the Vic the vigilante insiders club,
which is like getting access to all of our all of our analysts in real time,
in real time, like it's a private group where you're with us.
Something crazy happens in the market.
We all jump on the call.
You're talking to Ed to Jeff to me to all of all of the analysts.
Our technical analysts, Mr. A and W,
were the first guys were the group of first guys to chart
Bitcoin into Bitcoin talk forums in 2010.
So this is a degree of a dude of technical analysts that
have the most experience in charting Bitcoin and Bitcoin's history.
And it's an honor to have them as part of our team.
So so we focus on the fundamental analysis of what is it that we're talking about?
Technical analysis, the when to get in,
when to get out the state of the market, right?
The actual charting of it all.
And then we also focus on operational security of like,
how do you actually work with these technologies in a way that best
personalizing your life to secure your digital goods?
All right, so now, you know,
so if you guys are in the crypto markets,
which a lot of most people honestly probably are at this point,
if you're in crypto, that's probably what you're doing.
Check that out.
What's that?
Vic, V-I-C, what is it?
What is it?
Go to www.vigilante.com or www.crypto-vigilante.io.
And you'll see links to both.
Okay.
Yeah, you'll see VIX to the exclusive club there.
This is for people who really want to be engaging with us.
Otherwise, just the dollar vigilante or the crypto vigilante would be enough
to be part of a newsletter experience if you're just learning.
But if you want to really engage us on a day-to-day basis,
then the Vic, the Vigilante Insiders Club is where you would want to be part of.
Now, what about someone like me or you,
someone who's more ideologically driven?
Let's say the goal is maybe not to get rich,
but it's to fuck the Federal Reserve over,
or even if I'm just trying to do things from an agorist
or crypto anarchist perspective,
what coins should I be holding, Raph?
Okay. So that's an amazing question because that's really how we started.
We started with an activist approach to our newsletter.
And that approach served us very well,
served everyone really well,
and it's at the core of everything that we do.
But as time has gone on, we realized that crypto has moved beyond
the agorist libertarian world.
And it's obviously something that is a mainstream right now
where even countries are talking about having strategic reserves.
So our focus right now is to maximize profits
and to preserve our profits, to preserve wealth as much as possible.
So what you're asking for is the activist approach.
And I myself, I'm very vocal about that distinction
that you either come into crypto as an activist
or as an investor trying to maximize and preserve wealth.
So, well, Sal, what is it that you value in life, right?
It comes down to your personal values
because when we talk about cryptocurrencies now,
we're talking about weapons.
Should I invest in something like Ripple?
Are you someone that wants to use the world economic form?
You're a socialist, a communist,
and you want to have people eat crickets?
If that's your ideal for what's best for life
or for everyone around you,
if that's your motivation as a communist activist,
then yeah, maybe Ripple would be good
because it justifies the existing,
it fortifies the existence of fractional reserve lending banks.
It fortifies the existence of the Federal Reserve.
So if that's what you're for,
it's always been the most centralized coin, Ripple.
Quick little story.
I was at, back in New York, we used to do these meetups
and there was one that was like some,
it was like some economist actually wrote a book on tokens.
This is going back, I don't even know,
maybe 2017, 2018, something like that.
I don't even know around there.
And it was brand new and I was,
that was the thing I was,
I'm still telling everybody about the tokenization of everything
because that's a matter of time.
But anyway, I went to this meeting
and she was taking questions and this one dude
just had the floor and just would not shut the fuck up
about like promoting Ripple and XRP and this and that.
It is extremely centralized.
It is not only useless, but as Raph said,
it's actually counterproductive from a libertarian
or agorist perspective.
I really like coins that A, coins that have utility,
something that can be used as a medium of exchange
or maybe something that's private
or maybe something that just does something
and Ripple is not one of those coins.
In fact, what it does is it empowers the state.
So I like coins like Bitcoin Cash, BSV, I like Monero,
I like Xano, I like Pirate Chain.
I like Rune, even though they've had some issues
over there this past week,
which we can talk about I guess,
but what coins do you recommend agorists use?
Not hold, use.
Let's say it's me as a new person to crypto.
What would your advice be?
As a beginner, what would the coin you would go for?
Okay, so we're talking here from an activist perspective,
not as someone who's trying to maximize wealth, correct?
Yeah, but you know what though Raph?
I've maximized my wealth by taking the activist approach.
If I didn't take the activist approach in 2012,
I'd probably still be working some shit,
nine to five jobs shoveling shit somewhere
up in the North Jersey housing projects.
But you know what, I took the activist approach
and I said, you know what, for me it was having money
that the banks couldn't touch, that they couldn't say,
you know, they couldn't just reach their hands
and whenever they want and pull it out.
And by doing that, I got in early and I, you know,
the rest is history, but sorry to interrupt you.
Go ahead.
He wants to know what you think he should start off with.
So how about we do, I'll give you the answer
that covers both.
Okay, right now in this point of time, which one covers both
where you can feel good about your investing.
Oh, okay.
And at the same time as an activist
and at the same time you know you have upside,
it would be Monero.
Hands down.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah, I agree.
100%.
Hands down Monero and then if you are someone
that wants to support projects that complement Monero,
well then definitely you have Pirate Chain,
which is, achieves the same thing as Monero.
At this point in time is more private than Monero.
It's over 12 million anonymity set.
And then you have something like Xeno, right?
Which is giving you smart contracts.
All those proof of stake.
You know, some people don't like proof of stake as much.
I'm not a proof of stake person.
I don't like proof of stake, but I do appreciate the effort
that they're making in tokenizing things.
And I think it's a, I like the people
behind the project of Xeno.
The people in the project behind Xeno
are people that I personally can say,
you know, those people are reliable.
Other people that are looking out
for what's best for the community.
Let me pause you right there.
Because I want to ask you about,
I have like 10 questions already.
I agree with you with Monero has enormous upside
and it has utility because it's a privacy coin.
So you put your money in and nobody can see it.
They can't, it uses different cryptographic tools
like ring signatures and shit like that so that they can't,
they don't know who's sending what to who
or how much or when.
All those details are obscured.
The issue with Monero, the obstacle that they've always had
and I feel like they continue to have
and I want to get your opinion on this wrap is that
because it's so private
and because it actually does work so well,
it's essentially blacklisted from you.
I mean, it's very difficult to move from Monero
into dollars or from dollars into Monero.
So let's say you didn't make a bunch of money.
It might not be exactly easy to bring that back into,
there are ways to do it,
but you kind of have to be a more intermediate
or advanced in the crypto industry.
The second thing I wanted to ask,
I'm going to give you all three
and you can just hit whatever,
whichever ones you want.
You know, we talked about pirate chain
and I have been a tremendous fan of pirate chain
since its inception.
I'll tell you one of the things
that scares me though, Raph.
I remember seeing an exchange on Twitter
where these guys were talking about Zcash
and Zcash uses ZK Snarks as well as pirate chain.
It's a little bit different than Monero, Adam.
It's a different cryptographic protocol that's being used,
but Monero does not use ZK Snarks,
but pirate chain does.
Zcash does as well.
I saw a exchange on Twitter quite a while ago,
but you can find it's a very famous exchange.
You can, if you Google it, it's not hard to dig up.
Essentially, somebody made a Zcash transaction
and just like was like threw it out there.
Like, you know, I don't know if they like
dared somebody or bet somebody
or paid somebody to try to trace the transaction.
And they did, they did successfully.
So ever since I saw that,
I stopped promoting anything with ZK Snarks.
And it to other agorists.
So I want to get your opinion on that as well.
And finally,
Because they, pardon me,
it's because 0.63 of the transactions
use actual the Z addresses in Zcash.
So it's really easy to probabilistically
figure out which of those transactions.
I mean, it's less than 1% of the transactions
on Zcash are actually using the technology
that they're promoting, which is zero knowledge proves.
So it's really easy to figure out whose,
you know, in a probabilistic way,
what money is being sent where.
So it's, that's Zcash,
I don't consider it to be a privacy coin
because it is not private by default.
And the problem with Zcash is that
although it's had a good research behind it,
and it's experimenting with very exotic technology,
it's something that for some reason,
it comes from a centralized company,
the electronic coin company,
I think out of Colorado,
that they do not want to have Z addresses by default.
So Pirate Chain said,
well, if this is what everyone wants,
let's just experiment with it.
Let's try it out.
And that's what they were able to accomplish.
So Pirate Chain became everything Zcash
ever promoted themselves to be.
No shit.
Pirate Chain uses the Z addresses.
So there is no way to probabilistically
try to figure out, you know, what came with it
because there is no transparent addresses.
Almost 99.9% of all Zcash transactions
are transparent, as transparent as Bitcoin.
And that's the problem with,
that's why that was able to be a...
No shit.
A Zcash.
So Zcash is not a privacy point.
Okay.
And you know, it's 26, again, I agree,
but I saw Ed Snowden promoting Zcash
as like the privacy coin like a while ago.
He's promoting the technology.
Right, okay.
And see, there's a problem here
where you have to,
this is where you have to move beyond
what people tell you and realize that
there are many hands in the crypto pot.
For different reasons.
And there's many motivations.
So for example, someone that I care about a lot,
I championed Eric Voorhees.
I think he's an amazing person.
One of my heroes when I first came into Bitcoin, right?
But Eric Voorhees,
he's been very political in the way he's
approached his investing with Bitcoin.
And that's why he's someone that
doesn't ruffle feathers with anyone.
He's very much open to everything, which is cool.
But what Eric has been able to do is,
is that he's been able to tap into the world
of venture capital.
And through his own movements in venture capital,
you've been able to see him,
you get a window into what entities
like Digital Currency Group champion.
So for example, Digital Currency Group,
headed up by Barry Silver,
is they funded a lot of the research behind Zcash.
So of course they're going to champion
something like Zcash.
And they're going to promote it as something
that is private by default,
championing the technology.
Right, right.
And they might make a promise
because I've heard rumors
that Zcash has promised
or has an idea that in the future
they might go private by default,
which is what everyone has always wanted.
That's what they should be doing anyway.
That's what they should have done from the beginning.
Right.
Exactly.
But since they haven't,
people are apprehensive about them.
Whereas you have people
who are not connected to the VC cartel.
Right, right.
And they're doing things grassroots.
And those individuals are giving you
the technology in its purest form.
And one of the most important aspects of Monero
is that Monero has that environment
of peer-reviewed research
where everything is grassroots.
There is no VC funding.
They fund themselves through the CCS.
If you want to help contribute
to any research in Monero through the CCS,
Google CCS Monero,
the CCS, I forget what it stands for.
I think it's CCS.GetMonero.org.
I think that's the address.
And you'll see all the proposals there.
And then the community chips in
to fund different aspects of the research,
which is awesome.
There is no, again,
there is no that hand of the VC cartels not there.
Right, right.
The VC cartel has always been
the arm of technological research that
you think the managing partners
of these VC funds
are the ones that call the shots.
But in reality, it's the interest
of the limited partners.
The guys in the shadows
that are funding these funds.
Okay.
You have to be very discerning
as to what technology is being put in front of you
because now we live in a world
where Bitcoin and crypto
are instruments of political power.
And as instruments of political power,
there's going to be a lot of
a worry for your attention.
And so a lot of what they put in front of you
may not always be what it seems.
Like Zcash is a great example.
It's not really a privacy coin,
although it has great potential to be one.
It's not.
But Pirate Chain is.
Pirate Chain is everything
as Zcash has always wanted to be.
Okay.
I would also put dash into that category as well.
They kind of market themselves
as a privacy coin when in fact,
they're not.
But that's another story.
Yeah, correct.
Now you mentioned Zano.
And you mentioned Zano is,
you mentioned that you're not a fan of the
proof of stake stuff.
What would you say if I responded as such
to your critiques as such?
Half of the blocks.
This is kind of getting in the weeds.
Zano, you don't need to know this stuff.
I'm in the bar already.
Half the blocks on Zano are proof of work.
The other half are proof of stake.
And this actually makes the network much harder
to 51% attack since,
if you were buying up enough of the coins
to use proof of stake blocks as part of the attack,
that would send the price to the moon
and it would increase the hash rate as well.
What would you respond to that?
I think that throughout our journey in crypto,
we've been able to realize that
some projects need and are better off
with having a model like that.
So I used to be much more of a purist
regarding proof of work.
Me too.
And I think that for the things that matter the most,
we should have proof of work.
But I think that, for example,
Zano has a, I think Zano subsidizes its developers.
I think with the, I'm not mistaken,
it's a dev tax of sorts.
Maybe it was a premind
and people were very upset at that.
But if you, given our experience in crypto,
we can argue that if Satoshi would have created
some sort of dev tax for the devs
that he left in charge of the project,
we wouldn't have had a hijacking of Bitcoin, for example.
Well, they did that in Bitcoin Cash.
They had like this big split with XEC,
when Vin Armani and that other dude,
I forget his name at the current moment of time.
Yes, yes, yes.
Exactly.
Yeah.
They split off because they wanted to do
like some sort of like internal funding mechanism.
A lot like Dash has, you know,
with their little treasury thing.
Yeah.
And so every network, these are all experiments.
And until we find a proof of work network
that does smart contracts
and allows you to do even data on chain and.
Well, BSV is kind of the hope, right?
I mean, that's the big blocks.
BSV, that's kind of the idea
is that with the giant blocks,
they can do shit like that, isn't it?
The forbidden coin that we can't talk about?
Yes.
Yeah, exactly.
So yeah, that is the hope for many.
That is the heart of a lot of the innovation
that comes from crypto right now
is modeling after what BSV has proposed.
So Solana is, for example,
a network that is accomplishing
what BSV has always wanted,
has proposed to the world.
But after suffering so many commercial attacks,
interior and exteriorly,
they've lost the advantage.
And now Solana being proof of stake
has really taken the market by storm.
And a lot of the developers working in Solana
are came from BSV.
No shit, really?
Yeah, like Dean Little,
if you guys want to follow Dean Little,
he's a badass.
He's the guy behind Zeus.
And what he was able to accomplish
is that he created,
he turns Solana into a Bitcoin SPV node.
So check this out.
Simplified payment verification,
which is section eight of the white paper,
is something that in BTC has been kind of like,
it's one of those things that BTC has pushed to the side,
like we don't care for it as much,
because they don't want to use Bitcoin as money.
They don't want to use it as cash.
So, but simplified payment verification
is the means to have a light node,
especially if all you need to do
is verify the block header or transactions,
like without having to run any heavy equipment.
So it would be perfect for someone like a merchant
that just wants to see transactions in real time.
You know, make sure that everything is...
You're saying BSV would be perfect in that scenario.
So what I'm trying to say is like...
Like, bro, what Dean Little really created
was he turned Solana into a BSV SPV node.
Not a lot of people will tell you that right now,
but that's really what has happened.
Actually, not even Dean or those guys will...
Yeah, I never even thought about it like that.
...been vocal about this.
And guess who else?
Guess who else can use this?
Bitcoin Cash.
Bitcoin Cash can use Solana as a node.
No shit.
Yeah.
So now, Dean gave the world the ability
to turn Solana into a Bitcoin SPV node.
So all of the Bitcoins can apply, can enjoy this now.
You know, I always liked Solana after the NFT boom
because I was selling in NFTs and Solana
and made it so nice and easy to ding them up real quick.
I mean, I can make an NFT on Solana in like under five minutes.
So that was actually really useful in that little phase there.
All right.
Can you guys hear me good?
We can.
We can hear you, but we can hear you.
There he is.
All right.
So where were we?
Yeah, before we proceed,
if anyone wants to get on our free newsletter,
go to CryptoVigilante.io or DollarVigilante.com.
Bring the letter.
Actually, by the way, it reminds me,
I want to give a quick shout out to our sponsors
or one of them, AgourisNexus.
They have a new book out, guys,
that's written by Wendy McElroy.
It's called Revolutionary Friend.
It's the first ever biography
of Samuel Edward Kong in the third.
Check it out at agourisnexus.com,
forward slash shop.
You can get it in paperback or ebook.
I mean, look at that beautiful artwork
on the cover, Adam.
That's they don't fuck around.
Brandon is doing great work over there.
So check them out.
It's agourisnexus.com, forward slash shop.
All right, Raph, I think we were talking
about privacy coins.
And then we started talking a little bit
about big blocks and stuff like that.
Adam is absolutely lost in the fucking woods here.
He doesn't know.
He doesn't really,
he's kind of new to the whole thing.
And I've just kind of like, you know,
been in his ear trying to get him into crypto
because, you know, last year, we had a great year.
I mean, every year, honestly, we make money.
We don't fuck around, right, Raph?
But like, right now, I'm getting
fucking kicked around bad.
But that's just, that's temporary.
It'll come back up, guys.
I promise you that it always does.
But somebody like Adam.
Yeah, look, this would be the time for me to buy.
This is the perfect time, in my opinion.
Raph, where would someone like Adam get started?
How does something, there's thousands of people out there
right now listening to this who want to know
how do they get in?
They don't know the first fucking thing about crypto.
They don't know what a blockchain is.
They don't know how what a block size is.
They don't care.
So how do they get involved?
And how can they do it in a way that's conducive to,
that doesn't violate libertarian principles?
Cryptobasics Workshop of the Crypto Vigilante.
We did a whole conference.
It's there for you guys, where we teach you guys everything
from trading, operational security.
Where is that?
CryptoVigilante.io.
.io, and I can, what, it's a class called Cryptobasics?
Yes, sir.
Okay, okay.
All right, so check that out.
Yeah.
And so, and look, this is a journey, guys.
You can't, and it's also not a one-size-fits-all.
You may be someone living in a certain jurisdiction
that's very tyrannical, so your approach to crypto
is going to be very different for someone
who lives in a very freedom environment.
Right.
So keep that in mind.
So as I teach, as we teach as analysts,
what we do is give you a Dubuffet,
and you pick and choose how you personalize that
in your experience.
Some of you guys are going to want to be day traders.
Some of you guys are going to want to embrace this
as something very passive.
Some of you guys are going to embrace this
in every aspect of your life.
So, and this is not going anywhere.
The coolest part is that crypto is not going anywhere.
So long-term, low-time preference speaking,
I'm extremely bullish because, again,
we have cemented ourselves as an industry
of immense political power, not just technological power,
but political power.
Oh, yeah.
Now they're talking about doing a Bitcoin sovereign
Bitcoin fund or something like that.
And the state of Ohio is passing,
they're considering a bill to create like a Bitcoin reserve
for the state of Ohio.
And if they do that, then that's going to sort of pressure
other states into doing the same thing.
And, you know, Trump was just saying how he wants this
Bitcoin sovereign Bitcoin fund,
wherever the fuck he's calling it,
I forget, he wants it to include American-made coins,
which really kind of opens the door
for a lot of different things.
I know him and that Brad Garlinghouse guy,
he was trying to suck Trump off to get Ripple in there,
which I hope they really don't fucking do.
But, you know, you can expect to see coins like Bitcoin,
Bitcoin Cash, maybe even BSV.
You know, who the hell knows?
They're learning, man.
And that's what's happening right now
is that they're going through a process.
They're capitulating RAF.
They're capitulating.
100%.
And the thing is, guys, for everyone out there
that has their favorite project,
know that your time will come.
Because we are, this is an arms race.
This is an arms race for the best technology.
And so, yes, the U.S. can choose BTC and Solana.
What's keeping Russia from choosing Bitcoin Cash and BSV?
Right, right.
Oh, wow.
That's a good idea.
I hadn't even thought about that.
That's a good point.
So the technology itself is what matters.
And so, if you have a crippled blockchain
that doesn't allow you to do much,
if you created your own dead ends,
because you wanted centralized control of the network,
dude, I never even thought about that.
You're fucking yourself over.
So at this moment in time, as much,
I consider myself a real Bitcoin maximalist.
And I consider those people
who call themselves Bitcoin maximalists
to be Bitcoin minimalist,
because they only want you to use a minimal use
of the Bitcoin protocol, right?
They didn't want you to use it.
They want you to shove it underneath your fucking pillow
or under your mattress
and just forget about it, you know?
Yeah.
And so, right now, they have government favoritism
because they are leading the pack.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
But remember that we've seen many examples
through history in modern times
where things change drastically overnight.
We saw FTX go from worth billions of dollars
to overnight nothing.
Yeah, but dude, you're right, though.
Let's say the U.S. sovereign reserve fund
consists of these useless shitcoins,
like BTC or something like that.
Like you said, Russia and China
can go and stack coins with actual utility
and sort of force their hand.
I haven't even thought about that.
That's actually a really good, great point.
Yeah, 100%.
And so this is why the Maxis are mad
because they really wanted to lock in Trump
and the administration in focusing just on BTC.
And, and, and.
Oh, I saw that.
They were all pissed off.
Yeah.
The signal that we're getting from the government
is that the government is a lot smarter than,
because look, every military general will tell you
that the biggest threat to the U.S.
or to any country now is economic.
Because you can negotiate, you can keep the peace,
but economically speaking, to keep their engines going,
you need, especially if we're talking
about the machinery of theft
that we call fiat and central banking,
you need to keep it going.
You need to keep that going.
And to disrupt that is very,
it's something that is very powerful.
So the problem with BTC is, is that it helps them
because it does not disrupt what the,
what the government and central banks have been doing.
It graphs right into their.
Oh, yeah.
Of theft.
The problem with that is, is that
if they rely too much on it,
then they can't compete.
And there's another aspect to all of this.
That being, that now they've catched themselves
in a, in against the wall.
This is a catch 22 situation,
because we're seeing that there's a lot
of intelligence behind the people
counseling Trump.
There's a lot of thought going into it.
Yeah, he has good advisors.
They're not, but they're realizing
that they can't marry just one.
They're going for a strategic reserve,
a basket of currencies.
What do you think is going to be in there?
Not to cut you off, but what coins do you think,
what do you expect to see in this,
in this fund?
I think they're,
I think that we're going to definitely
see Solana in there.
No shit, really?
Yes.
Because I think we saw Trump's company.
That makes sense.
Honestly, dude, that makes a lot of sense.
Like you're saying though, because like,
and honestly,
Well, look at what just happened.
That's a fucking buy, dude.
That's a buy.
That's, that's Solana is a buy right now, Raph.
100%, 100%.
And it just gave BTC wings.
So all the Bitcoin core team needs to do is
beef up the capability of simplified payment verification.
And Solana automatically becomes
the best second layer that BTC could ask for.
Yeah, but who the fuck?
You know, I don't know.
I feel like in 100 years, dude,
nobody's going to be using BTC.
It's kind of like the Model T.
Like you might get people holding it,
just as like a relic.
It's like, oh yeah, they have like a Model T.
That guy has a Model T.
No shit.
That guy has a Bitcoin.
No shit.
But it's not going to,
you're going to be like, you know,
can I get some,
it's going to be some other coin.
Who knows?
It might be something that's not even in round right now,
but it's not going to be fucking BTC at that point.
They have to keep up.
They have to keep up with the market.
And what we're seeing right now is,
is that BTC just made a very smart move,
which is that they implemented zero knowledge
and confidential transactions
within their taproot protocol,
which allows them to send zero knowledge tether.
Right.
I was going to say right.
Zero knowledge or using confidential transactions
for tether on BTC tokenize.
Right.
The Lightning Network.
Guys, that right there is huge
because I've been a very big naysayer
of the Lightning Network.
But not because of the Lightning Network itself.
Like my buddies,
I was part of a group
that really developed this thing called Open Transactions.
You guys can look it up.
It's a project that is still being used,
but not too much.
Don't tell me they flipped you, Raph.
OpenTransactions.org.
Come again.
Don't tell me they flipped you.
The math.
No, no, no, no, no.
No, I'm just, what I'm trying to tell you is,
there was a guy in Bitcoin Core
by the name of Andrew Polstra.
And he has been working on using the Lightning Network
for other things other than Bitcoin.
And we're finally seeing the first
iteration of that.
Like what?
I personally think in Tether.
They're using, they're sending Tether
over the Lightning Network.
Yes, that's a good thing.
Yes, that's it.
Which falls right in line with what it is,
you know, with their whole...
Honestly, dude, I don't like stable coins.
I feel like if a coin's value
is tied to the whims of a central banker,
then it is by definition unstable.
It's only stable when its value is tied
to its market-based value.
I don't know.
I've thought that since day one.
That's just a sort of principled approach.
I need to clarify something, Sal.
Okay, real quick.
Because you said they flipped you.
No, no, no, no.
We flip them.
Ooh, I like that.
BTC is a big blocker blockchain now.
Like that.
We flip them.
It was a matter of time.
Flip them, okay.
That's what happened here.
Nice.
So that's why you have a guy like...
Yeah, so, dude, arguably a BTC.
BTC right now is setting itself up
because they know they have to compete.
Deep...
This is my observation.
They know they have to compete
with everything that we're talking about,
that there's going to be an arms race
for the best technology.
Michael Saylor's developing assets on chain.
Just Google it.
You'll find plenty of material on...
I think that's the name, Orange.
So they're big blockers now.
Ordinals was no coincidence.
They're big blockers now.
It's just that they want...
This is the thing with BTC.
They want to preserve power.
So it's not like they give us an open...
And the protocol like Satoshi did
of like, here, everyone go out and play.
But rather, this is what the central planners in BTC
will allow you to do.
So...
Right, exactly.
So TAPRU, the innovation within TAPRU is really cool.
I like that we can send zero-knowledge tether,
use confidential transactions for tether.
However, I don't like that it's their way or the highway.
That I don't like,
that there's a group of designers that
tell me how I should use the blockchain.
For me as a big blocker,
transmitting on chain using zero-knowledge,
that's its old technology, man.
I've been knowing that we can do any type of encryption
on the Bitcoin protocol.
So it doesn't dazzle me.
It dazzles those that don't know.
So what's really happening here is that
everyone is converging into the same
understanding that Bitcoin needs to scale.
And so there will be more transaction throughput
because of tether.
There will be a demand for an increase in block size
and the BTC core devs are preparing for that.
Are you familiar with what they're calling
the Great Script Restoration?
Oh god, no.
I'm afraid to find out.
So they're going to restore 19 op codes,
19 op codes in BTC starting with...
When you say restore,
that they took away from Bitcoin during the Civil War.
So why not just use one of the...
Why not just use a different chain?
Why not use a big blockchain?
Use BCH, use BSV, use...
Because a big blockchain is an existential threat to BTC.
Right, exactly.
So a big blockchain is...
It's a threat to their investment is what it is.
Well yeah, because a big blockchain like BSV
does not only have the capability of flipping Bitcoin
BTC in terms of dollars, right?
But it has the capability of completely consuming
its entire infrastructure.
It's not like you just flipped the value of the coin,
but you flipped the value of the coin,
but you also like pillage and just own all of its infrastructure at the same time.
So that's why I think Bitcoin Cash and BSV
still to this day are an existential threat to BTC.
And we're only one viral application away.
Listen up guys.
In BSV or Bitcoin Cash from completely challenging BTC
and they know this shit.
Yeah.
The BTC maximalists, they know this shit.
That's why they go so hard.
They're running scared, honestly.
Well, they're kicking big blocker's ass on purpose, dude.
Why do you think what's happening with Roger Ver is something that...
Do you think it's something that's...
Ref, I was just gonna ask you,
I wanted to switch gears and talk about the war on crypto,
specifically the Lawfare case against Roger Ver.
Break it down for me.
What are your thoughts?
What's the government doing?
Explain to the viewers what they're doing and give me...
Give us your take on it.
I think they're trying to make an example out of Roger,
and but they don't have a foundation for their case, really.
And so, obviously, this is something that was...
They're going after him because he's...
He put out information that is too dangerous to the establishment.
Bingo. That's what I've been telling you, Adam.
I haven't I've been saying that?
I've been saying that to you.
Like, like...
But I don't...
But there's an aspect of Roger Ver's book and message that I don't agree with.
You want to know what it is?
What is it?
Him and Stephen Patterson.
That there's a subtext in everything that they write and what they say.
The subtext is...
Like they concede it.
It's almost like BTC won, we lost.
And that is bullshit.
That is wrong because...
And a lot of it has to do because of the Bitcoin cash premise that they come from
of thinking of Bitcoin as only cash as something that you use in the real world.
But in reality, Satoshi gave us programmable money.
So that it's not just cash in the boomer way of buying a coffee.
It's cash that I interact with in every little aspect of my movement on the internet
where I own my data.
Well, that's true.
I mean, he did say, you know, the first line of the white paper is...
You know, it says Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer...
Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer cash system.
So you're not wrong.
But it goes a lot deeper than just using it to buy coffee.
It's the thing where I disagreed with Bitcoin
cash is that they only stop there.
And it's almost like, bro, stopping there in its ultimate manifestation is called Monero.
But if you really want to go with everything that Satoshi gave us,
you're dealing with a turn-complete machine that every UTXO can be programmed on chain
and that a computation is just a computation when the block size is unbounded,
that this scales in parallel horizontally in a way that we don't have an Ethereum,
that we don't have in Solana, that we only have in Bitcoin's original design.
So by him, why I went extreme big blocker with BSV was because I saw Bitcoin
cash stopping halfway.
And so if you want to really embrace everything Satoshi gave you,
you need to embrace its computational power.
Yeah, but that's not why, though.
That's not why they're...
So in other words, the government is attacking Raj Ravir because what he did was,
in his book, if you read it, he essentially proves what a lot of us big blockers have been
saying for a very long time, which is this was an intelligence operation, the push for small
blocks. In other words, the CIA intentionally infiltrated the cryptocurrency community and
pushed for small blocks because they knew by crippling the chain, it would be non-usable
as a medium of exchange and therefore not be a threat to the banking cartels monopoly
on the issuance of currency.
Wait, it goes deeper than that, though.
But my point is, though, it's not just that.
It's that and, wait a second, Sal.
The deeper issue here is that it challenges Big Tech and Silicon Valley,
because now I can, with 500 bucks, I can allow people to create whatever they want on chain
for free because it costs me on BSV 150,000th of a penny to post anything for sale.
Right, but...
To create an NFT or any add digital asset for sale.
You're not wrong.
It goes deeper than that, bro. It literally Bitcoin is that which challenges Big Tech.
But what I'm saying, though, is the reason why they're giving this guy 109 years for some bullshit
is because he proved that the CIA crippled Bitcoin during the block wars in 2017.
He wrote a book where he name names. I mean, he's naming CIA agents. You can't do this shit.
So as soon as he writes the book, a week later, they're going to put them in,
they want to give them a lifetime prison sentence.
I'll just jump in here. Even with my limited knowledge of the situation,
like I've said before, the fact that you mentioned, he literally asked how much money
they were demanding of him, and they refused to tell him, which just kind of indicates that...
It has nothing to do with his money.
Right, they don't give a...
It has nothing to do with the money.
Do you think they care that he's a short half a million dollars?
They don't fucking care.
That's not even going to pay the bonus on the IRS cheese fucking Christmas bonus.
This whole thing is an operation to delay the inevitable.
All everything that you're seeing in crypto history from FTX to the Bitcoin Civil War,
to what we're seeing with Roger, even what we've seen with Craig Wright,
what we saw with Copa, what we're seeing with Twitter, everything, everything,
everything you see in technology, guys, is to delay the inevitable.
You want to hear the real big bombshell here?
The inevitable is, is that everything is getting consumed by Bitcoin.
Right.
And that we're entering into a world that changes everything.
You're absolutely right.
What they're trying to do, they're wrestling as much as you and I are with these concepts.
Dude, I'm telling you straight up, dude, I think all of humanity is entering into an
existential crisis really.
Trying to figure out what these technologies mean and how they're going to shape us
to the point that people are even questioning their own reality really.
You know what, dude?
I look at it.
It's becoming almost a religious thing.
Like they're trying to find meaning in their life through technology
because technology is that important, bro.
And let me say one thing about Bitcoin, bro.
Bitcoin and its original design gives us a truth ledger, a global truth machine,
a book that you can't burn, a place where you can store data on chain forever.
If you want to experience that, go to memory.money.
It's ARC.
You'll go to ARC and you'll be able to post whatever you want on the Bitcoin blockchain
forever.
No one can take it down.
Memory.money.
Go just go there.
Experience it for yourself.
You know?
So that's what scares people.
It's the same thing that's scaring the USDA right now.
Oh, whatever the fuck agency that is, that's all scared at all these agencies.
USA.
Because they're being held accountable, bro.
They're being held accountable.
And people in power, the one thing that they fear is being held accountable.
It's having light.
So the biggest act of revolution that we have in crypto is not really privacy coins,
in my opinion.
Ooh.
It's what Satoshi gave us.
It's truth.
Peer to peer.
It's having an honesty machine, a truth machine.
That's why in the white paper, notice if you read it,
every time Satoshi talks about nodes, proof of work and mining,
every single time he uses the adjective, honest.
Honest nodes, honest.
Right.
Honest proof of work.
Because, and this is where I disagree with Roger Vair.
He wanted to return Bitcoin and the Bitcoin cash guys into some sort of privacy coin,
completely missing the fucking most important thing that Satoshi gave us.
A truth ledger, a global truth ledger
that we need to build on top of.
A protocol he gave us where we can own our data.
And, and not be beholden to central planners in a hub and spokes network.
So this is, this is really where the revolution is.
This is why Bitcoin's original design is the technology that is most persecuted
in all of crypto history.
And really this in the reality is, is that everyone knows this now.
The smartest people in crypto already fucking know everything I'm telling you.
And that's why they're preparing to give you that
or a semblance of that drip by drip.
The Solana is that, is giving you the fullness of what Satoshi gave us
in a way where the central planners can still hold control
by being stakeholders and validators and block producers
of the proof of stake Solana network.
This is what they did JP Morgan with Ethereum,
by giving you something where they can still hold control with proof of stake.
This is exactly what they're doing with the lightning network.
Because the lightning network, in its reality, it's a proof of stake network
where you put money up at stake.
So that has liquidity, the hub has liquidity.
Very consolidated, very consolidated.
Again, it's a way for them to keep power.
What's going to happen guys, and this is a big, big fucking deal here is,
is that deep down everybody already knows that the cat is out of the bag.
And that we are, we live in a world now where the person you least expect
can shock everyone the way Satoshi shocked all of us.
Especially now that we have AI, and look at what just happened with deep seek, right?
We have technology that now, that we can outcompete each other easily,
that you don't need billions of dollars with a couple million or a couple thousand now,
you can outcompete anyone in the market.
So they're going through an existential crisis right now.
And what you need to realize is, is that this is a great opportunity
for freedom.
And that's why we need to talk about this.
We need to educate ourselves about these things.
And, and, and, and so we're just barely getting started with crypto man,
because if you really want to get even deeper into this shit,
Satoshi gave us an AI.
That's really what he gave us.
He gave us a swarm intelligence on chain, where through,
through a profit seeking model, through a meritocracy of miners
and entrepreneurs on chain, they seek what is best for the network
and the network automatically has a feedback loop within it
to give it, to assess what's best for us on chain.
This is what Solana is trying to replicate.
Solana is trying to replicate Satoshi's original design.
That's also what Solana is trying to do really.
And this is what the Bitcoin core team is trying to mitigate.
That's why they have the great script restoration that they're deploying.
This is why they, they're bringing in liquidity on chain and BTC.
That is zero knowledge, right?
So everyone is already competing in the same arena.
And the biggest bombshell that we saw, I keep using the word bombshell,
the biggest thing that we saw was that Donald Trump himself,
his company, CIC Digital LLC,
launched the Trump meme using Solana.
Wild, wild, that was fucking amazing,
because it didn't matter how much money you contributed
to the Trump campaign as a centralized exchange like Coinbase.
He literally rung-pulled all of his fucking supporters.
And they were just like, they're still supporting him, though.
He rung-pulled all of them, literally.
Don't you think that Trump, Trump, it makes sense
for someone like Trump that he would want his meme coin
to commemorate his presidency to be,
to be stored on SHA-256 forever, right?
That shit makes total sense to me.
Why didn't he do that?
Because there's just, we live in a world now of better technology.
Right.
And Solana is better technology, is accessible to everyone,
is cheap, spiritualist, permissionless, easy to use.
And so, he rung-pulled his supporters in a way.
Raph.
He really did.
We have to wrap it up soon, but I have one more question for you.
Give it to me quick.
What are your top coins for 2025?
Top coins for 2025?
Yeah.
Hit me with it.
How many do you want?
Give it to me, wherever you got, I want it.
I want to hear it.
Your top three, your top three.
You're not going to like my first answer.
Uh-oh, uh-oh, come on.
I don't disagree with anything that you have to say
to be honest with you.
Okay, the biggest problem that you guys like us have,
and you said it at the beginning of our conversation,
you're like, dude, I did great for myself
by following my, you know,
Oh, don't tell me Ripple, bro.
Come on.
No.
Number one is BTC.
You have to, we have to listen to the market.
The market is learning.
You have to see Bitcoin for what it is, BTC,
as a place where the world is learning,
you know, about Bitcoin, about these technologies.
Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree.
Look, it holds the brand.
It is the, it's the torch bearer.
It's what people know about it.
Right, even though it doesn't work,
that's the one, when someone says I'm going to invest in crypto,
that's where they're going to go,
because that's what they think, they think Bitcoin,
but they don't know that it doesn't do anything.
It's just they're just-
Like, correct me if I'm wrong, but like,
that's the one that is more leaning
towards the financial benefits rather than the-
Yeah, you, yeah, it's up to what?
A hundred thousand or some shit now?
Yeah, like, if you want to make money, then yeah,
totally right.
Right, exactly, exactly.
But we're agorists here.
We're crypto anarchists.
Our goal is not only to make profits,
but it's also to cause disruption.
And that's why I try to promote things like privacy coins,
coins that do something,
give me anything that just,
as long as you show me some utility,
I'm interested, I want to learn more, you know?
Okay, so definitely-
BTC.
Mike, I have to ask, I have to ask Sal,
do you want coins that meet just your agorist desire?
No, no, your top performing coins.
Performing in the market.
Yeah, overall.
Monero and Solana.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, okay.
Monero and Solana, by far.
Raph.
Black swan, a black swan event.
Definitely the black swan that could really like,
this stabilize and change everything,
and it's like the hedge of hedge,
which is the most hate,
and this is the reason why the propaganda-
These are the ones I like.
It's PSV, bro.
That's the one that, that is the hedge.
So, it's like 40 bucks.
It's a hedge against the establishment,
like a motherfucker, like that's the one that really like,
but it's, it's, it doesn't have a great upside.
No, because it's a fucking, it is,
because it is that hedge, because it is that threat.
So, keep that in mind.
Also, I think you can even throw Bitcoin cash into that as well.
But definitely, to answer your question,
Solana and Monero.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm going home to buy Solana after this conversation,
that's for sure.
And then, obviously, things that follow those lines of thoughts,
right?
So, you have, what follows the line of thought of Solana?
Something like Sui, right?
So, it's a smaller network,
but it has a good amount of volume moving in.
What's the ticker there?
SUI.
SUI, okay.
Yeah, Sui, it's like something that challenges Solana.
Um, you have, and then something that challenges Monero,
that's a smaller coin would be pirate chain, right?
That's, that's where-
That's at a, you can get a fire sale on pirate chain nowadays,
can't you?
So, I don't understand your question.
It's, it's, it's a, the price is pretty low, isn't it?
I forget what it was last time I checked on, on our-
Last time I checked, it was 18 cents.
It's very undervalued.
And it's very undervalued.
Think about it, what's-
It's useful.
Crazy mania in 20, in 20, um, 2021-ish.
Right.
2022.
That is shot up to $17.
And just for the health of a network,
that's not really good when things shoot up that fast.
It's nice that they steadily grow.
And so, I think, I think it's already corrected.
It's already had its 90% correction.
So, and it's had a bullish trend in the past six months.
And then it's, you know, it's fallen away from it.
But it's still right now-
I agree with you with that on, on Solana and, and Minero,
I think you're 100% right.
We are running at a time, Raph.
We got about five minutes left.
Why don't you tell everybody where they can find you
and give us anything, any links you got for us?
How do we keep up with what Raphael La Verde is doing?
Well, definitely sign up for our free newsletter
at the Crypto Vigilante, at CryptoVigilante.io.
We just normally talk and focus on crypto.
We talk about the whole market from an Austrian perspective.
And I'll definitely go into our free newsletter
for the dollarvigilante.com.
Follow me at Vamos Vigilante.
On Twitter, you can follow us on at Vigilante Crypto.
And that's pretty much it.
Follow Ed Boogos.
That is at Golden Lantern.
That's all on Twitter on X.
Okay.
Follow Ed Boogos or just, just do a search for Ed Boogos.
I think, um, yeah, he's in, I work with him.
And in my opinion, he's, he's, um, he's an NFT.
And I think you should have him on your show.
Nice. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
We have this.
Actually, I'm in the area of, because there's a lot of,
he's very knowledgeable on.
We talk about, we talk about all that shit on here.
Absolutely. It's right up our alley.
You should definitely have Ed Boogos here.
Okay.
Because he can give you, look, there's a lot of libertarians out there
that talk about crypto and Austrian economics.
And I would be the first one to say, um, we got,
we got so caught up with crypto that a lot of us forget about the fundamentals.
And he's like the Mr. Miyagi.
Right, right.
Give us back the Austrian fundamentals.
And, and he gives you like the glasses to see the main thing.
Right, right, right, right.
So when people are scared talking about the CBDC, for example,
Ed Boogos is a guy who will tell you like,
wait a minute, man, calm down.
Right.
You've seen this before with the SDR.
You know, and that sober mindset you,
you know, I think it's very beneficial for your audience to have.
So I would, you know, by all means,
I think Ed Boogos would be an amazing guest for you.
Raf, we kept you longer than we told you.
So I appreciate you staying late with us.
Thank you for filling us in on all this info.
I'm going to buy some fucking Solana.
It's a good network.
It is, it is.
They've had their trouble, but they've always bounced back
from any issues that they've had.
And I've always respected them for that.
I guys said I've made money selling NFTs there
and I've never had any issues honestly.
So, you know, definitely something to think about guys.
Raphael Leverde, we appreciate you.
Thank you, my friends.
Until next time.
Nice meeting you.
I love you, buddy.
Take care, guys.
All right, man.
Have a good night.
Now we are dealing with a possible world war.
Some will say we are already in a world war.
My condolences and prayers go out to everyone suffering under tyranny.
It really sucks.
I'm really sorry.
But it seems as if people are starting to wake up
regarding crypto more and more each day.
And so it's in the description right here to read
where we give our secret sauce
and what we teach our subscribers
because things are just that bad.
You know, everyone needs this information.
People need to know about sound cryptocurrencies
that are actually private by default
and to know how to properly use crypto.