Hello and welcome to the King Heroes Journey podcast. My name is Beth Martens, and I have the immense pleasure of having Sarah Tomato on,
I'm getting used to saying Sarah Tomato today, who had me on her channel recently, got to know her. It's been a quick love affair.
I became a subscriber on her YouTube debate channel. And so that's been really fun. This is thanks to Ben Balderson.
I don't know if he's going to be around today. Hello to everyone who's coming in the chat. That's fantastic.
Feel free to share this out. It is a pretty shadow band channel. Darn it. Go figure. I don't think I'm that dangerous, but let's see.
So if you're new to the King Heroes Journey, you feel like subbing. I am live on YouTube and rumble and Facebook and X and vigilante TV.
Let me see if I am actually live on rumble. Let's see. Did it do it? Damn it.
Okay, I'm going to have to upload to rumble after. I've always got a little glitch. Beth called Sarah Beans.
There you go. All right. So without further ado, I'm going to introduce Sarah. She is, she's, I love this quote. She says,
there will be chaos. Let's get clear here. We can talk about that. There will be crazy buckle up.
And so it's pretty wild. Sarah in the summer of 2024 hosted her first live debate video kind of by accident.
Shortly after the moderator Monday, Monday series kicked off with a full momentum along with the throw down Thursday.
Since then the raging tomato became an official debate platform platform with the most contentious topics featuring
one versus one, two versus two, one versus eight. Additionally, the after hours open panels on the gauntlet continue to grow in popularity as several panelists wait their turn backstage to enter the battleground.
And I was, I was there for one of those debates. It was super fun. I had a huge smile on my face. So I'm going to bring Sarah on now. Hello and welcome, Sarah.
Hello. Thank you so much for hosting this. It's not often that I get to be the person in the hot seat. Right. Right. Yeah.
Can you hear my dogs barking? I hear them immensely. I do not hear them. Can you hear my distiller running? No.
Okay. Excellent. Yeah. Yeah. That's one of those things I drink nothing but distilled water. So I that thing runs like three times a day.
And if I stop it, then I have to start it and I don't have water and stuff. So, so I would go there. Yeah. Thanks for bringing all your people. Welcome.
Yeah, I hope they're heading over there and sending you all the love as you deserve.
Yes. Yes. And I see we have some overlap between a few of our people. That's so good. Well, I'm excited for this conversation. We're going to be talking about what it's like to be in the eye of the debate storm.
Yeah. And I've been, I've been watching you. It's, it's kind of crazy. Do you want to say anything more by way of introduction about yourself?
No, I mean, I think that you have that pretty much covered it. I'm Sarah. I host debates. It's crazy.
So what was that turning point when you decided you were going to do that when you, when you didn't, when you weren't doing that, but you stepped into the arena?
Well, it started with a random Monday night and I thought to myself, man, nobody streams anything fun Monday nights. I was bored watching, like, you know, scrolling through YouTube and I thought it's so boring here.
And so I said, maybe I'll just try something on Mondays and see if it floats and do like an open panel.
They had already been calling me. They first, they call me mom orator because I'm a mom and I momerate them like a mom should.
But they kept saying that I moderate the open panels pretty, pretty well, right? Well enough.
So, so I thought to myself like, oh, I'll do a mod Monday, like moderator Monday. Let's see if it takes off.
And I remember doing my first Monday night and I didn't have like a topic picked or anything.
I was just completely blindly walking into it. Like, let's just open up the gates and see what happens.
And people came up at David Donnelly from the vinyl community was was one of the few that first came up and just to fill the space.
And, and we just sat had a conversation. It was really mild.
Like nobody got mad. Nobody got upset. Everybody was just having a nice, gentle conversation.
And then that eventually evolved later to where I started planning my moderator Mondays where I said like it needs to be more formatted more structured.
So then I went with four people, a 2B2 and a hot seat.
And the hot seat was like meant to be kind of like, because I didn't want to leave people out of the conversation.
Like I always had everybody involved in the conversation.
So I gave an opportunity for people to line up backstage and hop in the hot seat.
And then that later evolved to what it is now where it's 2B2.
They they have the full direct attention for the first two hours.
And then after that, we go into open panel.
And I mean, the rest is kind of history from there.
It's just kind of sale.
The first official one V one debate I hosted was Andrew Wilson and based Oracle that was requested by Andrew.
And and it just kind of took off.
And now now here we are.
It's just pure crazy.
Yeah, so interesting.
As you know from interviewing me and getting to know each other a little bit that I'm always looking for without even intending to I just have a natural pattern hunting kind of side to myself.
And I like to see archetypes or I just inevitably see them whether I like it or not.
So so it's interesting when you when you threw in that you said you were you were bored and you're looking for a little excitement.
So that I know you did the quiz at my website and I'm sure we're going to talk a lot about that as well.
But when you talk about there being like being bored was a motivation, which is the best creator space to be from when you let yourself be bored.
It's so fruitful.
Yes, it's stupid.
But it seems scary for what can you guess which archetype is scared of being bored?
Let's see.
There's the rebel, the nurturer, the king, the alchemist.
I would I mean, I would see the king is being like not wanting to be bored, but I would also pin it on the rebel too.
Yeah, you got it on the second one.
Yeah, the king would be bored, but they don't have any time for that.
Great.
I know what that's like.
Yeah, yeah.
Now I don't have any time.
Yeah, I was bored.
Right.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
So yeah, that's very interesting that you got you got I mean, we've all got some, you notice I wore my black leather today.
There's, you know, in in your raging tomato brand, you could say there's a lot of rebel.
Yes.
And you're attracting a lot of rebels as well.
The fighters, those who don't mind conflict.
And that's kind of an unusual quality because especially women will go out of their way to avoid the conflict.
It's funny you say that because I hate conflict.
I hate I hate like being put in a stance of you're going to have to duke this out with someone.
I avoided it all costs and like I hate it, but I also openly welcome it too.
It's it's kind of contradictory to that.
The way you say that especially the way I invite and welcome it, but I also try to avoid it at all costs.
There you go.
There's Benjamin Balderson who I never mind getting in a friendly conflict with.
He's the one that brought me over.
So thank you Ben for these introductions.
Yeah.
JJ Hemcreet is in the house and Ducks Wise said I'm a licensed CSM.
Is that good?
What is a CSM?
I don't know.
I don't either.
Duck is odd.
He says that.
That's why we have an emoji in our chat of no duck.
It's like got a like kind of like a do not enter sign over top of a duck.
That's he earned that.
The chat loves it.
Fair enough.
Yeah.
I'm not good at all the acronyms and the three letter this and that.
So I have to go look them up and half the time you can't.
So and yeah, Ben's my favorite alchemist too, Michelle.
Thanks for being here.
And and you are quietly content bear.
Okay.
You guys seem to come as a pair interchangeable.
That's great.
I love to have some bears around and how it goes it new to the channel.
Welcome.
You want to drop a like please do that's awesome.
Jason welcome.
It's always lovely to meet new people.
Totally love it.
And yeah, so that's that rebel archetype is willing to get into the
conflict.
So it's it's it's interesting.
Say it makes me think of my parents started a business in
communication and they were masters at it and they developed a very
good, you know, service.
And it was one of the top three agencies in this city at a
time, but say within their personal life, not to call them
out too much, but communication wasn't this strong point.
Those that can't do typically teach, right?
And I find that probably maybe that was the calling, right?
I mean, I was bored and I thought everybody else is bored.
Like let's get everybody together on one screen on a Monday
night, but I don't like conflict.
So therefore I will manage conflict.
Maybe maybe that's the calling.
I don't know.
Interesting.
Yeah, right.
Because you're in the role of being the moderator, the referee,
you're there to, you know, like make sure people don't go
completely off the rails and channel and stuff like that.
And it's also there's there's such a huge difference between
professional and personal.
Yes.
And people draw that line really hard.
So the two world, the two worlds don't necessarily meet.
It's one of the things I actually feel happy about helping two
people, people to create a life where they don't have to opposing
professional and personal lives.
They just have a life.
And I call that the sacred purpose, which we talked a lot
about on, on the interview with me.
And yeah, so the, the King archetype is, is a beautiful one
that that's one that I have a lot of affection for.
Actually, that's what this channel is named after the
King hero, literally, you know, beaconing out to the King heroes
a little bit.
Where are you as well?
And while it sounds very masculine, it is also, and especially
in this day and age, it can be very feminine because or not
that it's feminine, just that women can wear the King archetype
much more than they ever have.
Can you want to talk about that?
Would it's like to be a King in your world?
Well, I mean, quite frankly, I didn't know I was a King until
your test told me I was a King.
But it's, it's, I would say it's a very heavy weight in terms
of understanding people and no, in trying to bring them all
together on one screen and knowing who has beef with who
and who has what kind of personality type and who,
who gets crazy, who gets shy, who needs comfort, who needs
this, who needs space.
And it's, it's a heavy weight that most people is,
I told you before, I like to people the people and just
knowing and understanding, yeah, knowing and understanding
how they operate is very, I think that's the most
important piece when you have 10 people on one screen
and knowing how people prefer to be talked to or what
they react to or what they, what will make them engage
or what will bring out the best of them.
And just knowing and understanding that is very important.
Now you don't always get it right.
There's, I, you know, I'll own that.
You don't always get it right.
Trying to understand how people work and operate
and all of these things is very head spinning sometimes.
But you make your best guess, you know,
especially when people are regulars and they're coming
back all the time, like you, you get a feel for what
they, they will react to or won't react to.
But I would say it's, it's a, it's a heavy weight
just trying to do that.
And then everything that goes behind the scenes,
everything that's on the screen, everything that's
like all of their interpersonal issues together
on other screens.
And it's like you're taking all of that and you're
crumbling it all up in a little ball and hoping
it doesn't implode.
It's scary.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
The ultimate multitasking going on.
People kind of have no idea and that's okay.
It's not a, you know, a matter for anyone to feel
bad about how much work goes into the back end of any
kind of, like once you jump on, it's fairly easy.
Although you're still managing many elements at one
time and some unexpected ones too.
So yeah, that's in fact very feminine is the
ability to multitask where, where men are better
at like just zeroing in, spotlighting on one
thing.
Women can floodlight out and, and keep an eye on the
big picture that, that way all the children don't
die.
Yeah.
I've heard a lot, especially lately, that I
just sit here and do nothing.
And I laugh at it because I'm like, you have
no idea what's going on behind the scenes.
You have no idea, even when I put together
certain panels or know who does what and
how that, the, all of the work is all behind the
scenes.
And, and then sitting here watching it come to
fruition.
That's like, okay, we've, we've, we've metered up.
We're right here at this level.
How do I maintain this level right here?
And just knowing how somebody will react and so
on and so forth, like it's, it, because your
levels will go up and it'll go over or, or
it's going to drop and it's, it could go
either direction and it's up to me to try to
ensure that it stays there.
And sometimes that requires very minimal
work.
Some people can people themselves.
But most of the time that requires a lot of
patience and, and just, just understanding.
And that's really hard.
Right.
To me, it's really hard at least.
Oh, you do it really, really well.
And I just wanted to point out that for
the king, that's the, you know, the
behind the scenes is the biggest part of
their world.
So no, no matter what you see in any
leader, you know, person that's willing to
get out and be the movement or the head of
the spear, if it's more of a warrior
approach, then yeah, the behind the scenes
is, is a heavy weight.
It just, it's, it's part of it.
So it's good.
It's good to understand that.
And yeah, understanding the people.
I was, I was wondering if maybe you want to
get my guests to do, get your guests
to do my archetype quiz before they come
on.
So you can right away get a profile of who
they are and know, know how to speak to
them, not so you can manipulate them.
Of course, that's not, you could do that
way, but you can speak their language
and appeal to their values is one of
the really good things.
You know, let's see, that's the fun in
it is learning who, I mean, obviously
there's regulars, right?
So I've learned that those people
already, but the exploration part is
the fun part of it all.
And that's, that's what I enjoy is
getting to know and understand them.
I think they should all go take your
quiz anyways, just because it's
interesting to learn about yourself.
But as far as when they come on,
even for the first time, it's like,
it's like opening a Christmas gift on
Christmas morning and you have no idea
what's going to be behind it.
Nice, nice.
That's beautiful.
That's also pretty rebel of you that
is interested in that excitement,
right?
Because it's new.
It's risky.
You don't know that person.
Maybe they're going to flip out
or something like that.
That's very cool.
I like it.
And so
can you talk more about
peopeling the people?
What does that mean to you?
I might have named this stream that
but I went in a different direction.
So I like this phrase, but I don't
totally know what it means.
Peopeling the people is,
I don't know, to me it's
it's really deep diving into
who people are
between their persona that they put on
screen.
We all know that that can be different.
But then also
kind of navigating through
some people you have to keep them
within boundaries.
Am I feedbacking on my end?
Is it just me?
I do not hear anything on my end.
Can you let us know in the chat if
you're hearing any echo at all?
It sounds clean on my side.
I can meet while you talk if that helps.
Let's see if that's the
maybe that's the fix
for me.
I guess you probably have speakers.
Maybe if I talk lower
if I talk lower it won't
feedback.
But the
I would say
knowing because some people put
a certain persona on screen
but that doesn't mean that
they don't have real lives.
They don't have feelings.
They don't have all of these things
and just knowing and understanding
what kind of persona they put on
there versus who they might be when
they leave.
And in that one I can tell based
on you know messages
and interacting and engaging with
them privately and so on and so forth
and knowing kind of who's a little
softer, who's a little harder,
who's a little crazy, who's a little
this, you know.
But also just managing
managing who they balance
out with on screen as well.
Sometimes I know if somebody's going to
come on the screen and somebody
else is already there it's going to get
crazy and
trying to ensure that I put
a boundary up or
making sure we stay on beat
you know instead of going completely
off the rails is that's vital
to me because I want them
to have that moment that they
want. They're coming on there
to have that crazy moment
but they also
need to
stay within
the guardrails.
We can't just let you go
off completely and there are
people who try to push that and take
an advantage of things
and so on and so forth but
as long as you stay within that little
space then you know we can
keep rolling but I don't know
it's
I think just having
knowledge and understanding of people
is the most important
aspect to being able to
host
a plethora of
different variety pack of Pandora's box
and being able to
maintain it in such a way where
they still like you when they leave
they still want to come back
you're still polite to them
but you still also have to put your foot down too
that's the hardest
balance there I'd say
Yeah that's the art of good boundaries
that tends to show up
really strong in a nurture archetype
where you're
the rebel might be more inclined
to burn a bridge or two
and really like do this
but when you talk about
you know peopleing as a
verb like
an action that you do
again it being in that role where
you want to make an open space and have it
stay friendly
regardless of the conflict
and so that's a very
fine art
why do you think
debate matters now
more than ever
and what would be the whole
purpose behind debating
you know I don't even
think that it's necessarily
debate is that vital I think
being able to give
your opinion and have a place to do it
where you feel comfortable doing it
that's what I see
is most of the
issue for others where
they might say
the links down there come on up
you know come argue with me
but the person might be afraid to go up
because are you going to get muted
are you going to get booted can you speak freely
is it neutral
ground and most spaces
aren't when people want to argue
their thought process out
so most people don't feel comfortable doing it
because it's like why would I do it
if you're not going to allow me
the space to do it and speak
freely
to me the most important part
is not necessarily debate it's just the
ability to get on somewhere
where I'm not going to boot you for your
opinions your opinions
are of your own and they don't bother
me right
the most important part is being able to
get there and say it
and have the ability
to say it whereas it just
kind of turned into debate
but realistically
it's it to me it's more of just being
able to express whatever crazy
I mean we had a guy talking
about Jesus and mushrooms and I was
like what you know
but that's what he wanted to talk about
it's
if you think Jesus and mushrooms goes together
somehow in some weird crazy way
I'll give you the platform to do it
but I'll also give the platform
to other people who are going to come in
and dismantle your argument entirely
you know so
like I don't care about throwing my opinions
out there very strongly but other people do
and so
here's the space to do it where I won't
judge you for it I won't think less of
you for it I'll just give you the
space
yeah
so personally
I think people should debate
more and that's it's one of the most
common
comments that I get could you have
this guy on that I already interviewed
and that guy on that I already
interviewed to go a little head to
head I didn't mean to make bird hands
there
and
because
the discussions need to be had
they're sometimes
diametrically opposed in their
viewpoint and that's not just opinion
that can be like
claims about reality in law
in health in arenas that
really have high stakes
and matter
and the inability to just
have conversations
with each other is
like nobody wants to accept
an invite like that
right they all turn away now I understand
it a little bit and from the king's perspective
again it comes down to time
what do you actually have bandwidth
for and if you've got a big
kingdom already going in a certain
direction and able to make use of
the work that you have
then you might see it as a waste of time
to go and debate others
but you know if the
knowledge is
bonafide and it's
needed and it needs to
be spoken and get out in the airwaves
and is subject to
censorship as we're pretty much used to
these days then yeah
I would still invite that
it is a pain in the ass because
people are going to say things that
you don't want to bump up against
like to me again I'll pass it
over to you now but the biggest point
of the debate could be or the biggest
potential of the of the debate
could be learning
right having some
new added perspective
to the one you already had
yeah I mean
for me in my opinion
and this is why I don't go running
around panel to panel expressing it
too often my opinion
is reserved for me and
my my home and my family
and that's where we apply it and that's the only
place that matters right
everyone else on the internet
like you're you're going to formulate your own
thoughts you're going to do your own thing
and I don't feel any need to push myself
on to you because I
I don't I'm not here to
change your world view that's
not my goal my my
goal here online
is to allow you
to express your world view to others
and if they get their mind changed
in the event of that fine great
but I don't feel like
my opinion is
like
I love my opinion I love my value
system my principles and where I stand
but it is reserved for me and mine
but anyone else
like I don't feel that I'm not going to
come in and change your world view I'm not going to come
in and make you
think twice it's just
as you said it's a waste of time and that's how
I look at it like is it a waste
of my blood pressure is it a waste
of my headspace is it a waste of
you know my thought process and
my brain waves and what I have going on
to me it's wasteful
you're either going to listen to a few things
I might say and think about it
or you're not but I'm not going to sit here and try to convince
you nor am I going to debate you on it because
you obviously are coming to the table
with your own opinion anyways
so
but to others
they think or believe
or want to
change the world
you can come
change the world utilizing
my platform but you're not going to change mine
and mine's going to stay where
right where it's at and I'm not going to try to change yours
either and I think that's what
allows me to keep that
neutrality right with
with everyone else's opinions and
being able because I don't
care not that I don't care about
their opinion but I don't care to
change anybody's mind I don't care
that you want to try to change mine
I care about me and my children
and our value system
privately but what you do
on screen is your own
thing I don't know if that makes any sense
it does is the echo gone by the way
I think
so
yes okay perfect I can
stand muted
yeah well that's the trap
right that I watch
your guys and more for the sake
less for the sake of the content that they're
arguing about and more for
what you're observing like you know
how people are being and
there's
like
you just said it you can only
decide say
for the sake of learning for yourself
you can't
decide you know I'm going to
say it 10 times I'm going to say
20 times I'm going to say it 100 times
in the hopes
and this is often unconscious in the hopes
of changing
that other person's mind
fixing them making them you know
if you think they're stupid making them smart
like you or whatever right so
that's that's where personally I find it
so fascinating because you've got all of the
hidden inside
motives that are not just hidden
from
other people but hidden from ourselves that's
the nature of the unconscious
and so you can see these
drivers and
and
I can stay part of it for a time
but after a while it's just this
it's literally
programs interacting with programs
and there's no I keep
having the word in my mind porosity
right being porous
and being able to take in
not being wishy washy not being
indecisive
or unclear about
your position but like
there's always expansion is what I notice
you can always learn something
oh yeah
I will say I do enjoy
the educational portion of the debates
we had one Monday night
and it was really
morality based
in terms of American
what we started with in our framework
and gosh I just loved
hearing that the back and forth on that
to me it is enjoyable
to hear
different argument points
but
behind that is the educational
piece you know that's what gets me
excited I've always loved learning
I was a student for 11
years happily
because it just gets me so excited to learn
something new on a
different day when we stop
learning that's when we start dying
and anything beyond that is
I don't know it's lovely
yeah yeah I
totally agree with that
and yeah and then yeah
there's an unconscious drive to win
so that shows up with
the could be
the rebels but more warrior
and there's one of the
composite programs I call it a composite program
not to use lingo on this channel
because people don't necessarily know
what I'm talking about but
there are programs that carry
a lot of weight and what does that
mean is they require a great deal
of energy to operate so they're
expensive energetically
again by their very definition
they're unconscious and it drives
people to want to win
right they'll go on
the low side of the program from a place
of feeling like they can't win
and then they'll spend their life
clawing their way to a place where they
can win and they get tricked
thinking they arrived in
in the good place but what
it does is it actually makes
them a target
because anyone who's walking around
running that I can
win program everybody
wants to take them down
have you noticed any of that
yes we see that a
lot actually
it's it's like
knocking the knocking the
night off the horse kind of concept
if they want to
it like because you want
to win so bad I'm going to do everything
I can to stand in your way
I see that a lot
I see a lot of
I also
see them kind of stand in the way of themselves
like not willing
to be
open to any other thought process
because it's this is my goal and this
is what I want so
because of that you're not going to
you you can't
like you can't be open
to any other thing
because that thing is in the way
of you winning so
the inability to be
flexible and they just knock themselves
down because of it
yeah again it's exhausting
so it's not sustainable
to go on like that and
and you end up a kind of killer too because
if there's a sense
that you can win you might
very well feel like the other one
can't win at all cost and you're going
to kill them in
case they win and that's
dangerous because then you put
that out there and
and you'll
you could get dirty with
it I see dirty tactics
all the time with like well I can't let you
win I see a lot of people come in
bad faith because they don't want
to let you win or even to
like grant something or
give grace somewhere I think
the echo is still coming in again I don't know
if it's okay
you're working
off the speakers aren't you
I am but it never is an issue
so Streamer it seems to be able
to handle that I yeah I've got
my volume a little bit down too but I'll just
mute when you talk
Nikesis someone said they already did the quiz
that's awesome they got the nature child
and then Nikesis said is it possible to have
or be all the archetypes absolutely
this is kind of the punchline
of the heroes journey that
you are on all places of the heroes
journey at one time it's
massively complicated because
of that a must massively complex
so the point of doing the quiz is to give
you a point of entry a place to begin
working where there might be a concentration
of lost energy and gifts
as well
so anyway just wanted to throw that in
and yeah that
the state of neutrality is
is kind of a fascinating one that's become
part of our popular culture
you know you don't
pick a side that can be
a very interesting position
that often
have you ever noticed this when you don't
pick a side this might be more in the personal life
I'm not not saying you should operate
any different in your debate channel of course but
when you don't pick a side say two friends
start to war it out and you don't
pick a side the neutral
can also come with a high cost
I've been in that place where you know
I'm trying to straddle both worlds and
and still love both of them
and just keep praying they come together
and then
it can be that I'm out
yep
I get
I feel like it and it's always going to be my fault
right if I don't pick a side
we just saw this happen actually
where they presumed that I picked one
side over the other
because I didn't that's what it was
this was a long time ago
actually because I didn't
uh
speak up towards things that
somebody was saying they presumed
that I just agreed with it
and it's like well I don't feel the need
to speak I don't care what do I care
like their opinions are theirs like
what do I care to say
anything against it it's it is what it is
like other people were doing
every if everybody else is already talking
why do I feel the need to chime in
right but they take silence
as agreement to something
that's being said
and and it's
that new that
that's how I maintain my neutrality
by just not diving in at all
um but then they
they see that as I just
agree with whatever they're saying and it's like
you can't
you can't you can't win for
losing in this aspect
there's never a time or place where it's ever
going to be a winning factor no matter
what no matter what they appreciate
that you're neutral but then
that when they want you to take
their side that then they're mad that
you're not saying anything to the other side
it's like
you gotta pick one
so it I don't know it goes
it goes left right center up down over
and around all the time but usually
everything's always my fault and I just accept it
well there you go that's right
kingly of you right that
the king will assume responsibility
for everything going on
even though
it might look like others are to
blame but that's very different than
responsibility where you're like okay well I called
the debate I got all these people in here
they're battling over my
consent I
I love that um you know
if you if you don't pick a side then
people get all
up in arms and try to make you do
that and and then silence
this became very popular in the all law world
that silence is acquiescence
if you say nothing you are
agreeing right
yeah yeah and that's
not always the case there's
the warrior will
pick their battles very carefully and say okay is
this a place to lose energy
yes and choosing wisely
I'm a very
I'm like in this comes
down to that hole I don't have the time for this
shit kind of thing right
um pick your battles very
wisely it's it
in the aspect of debating
uh like I try to
choose and nitpick through what
is most vital to me do I feel
like engaging in having
some fun do I feel like telling my
opinion here or is it even worth
it and sometimes I'm just like it's
not worth the energy I'm just
gonna give me a headache um so
I'll let other people do that one out
especially during during open panel that's
the biggest portion but sometimes I feel
like it's important to say
you're stupid why are you
thinking this you know um
but most of the time it's
just I'll save my energy
for when someone else wants to get
into the it and tango with
someone else and that's where I have to
put my energy into is making sure
that they're mitigating through
uh it gets it gets a little rough
but but to the responsibility
thing that's that's another big piece
uh in terms of
um like when people act
out and have bad behavior
on my show I'm expected
to to
shame chastise boot um
get them out of here never let them on
again and it's like but that's not
my order right that may
be your order but that's not my order
um and I'll be blamed
I'm always blamed for
other people's bad behavior just
because I'm allowing them to
come back or uh
whatever the case or I I didn't speak
up fast enough for them
uh so and that's just you just
you have to accept that you have to
accept that whatever bad behavior
is going to be on my screen whatever
interruptions whatever
you know crazy off the
wall things people say that will
always fall on me no matter what and
people always point it at me
instead of the actual person that's doing
the bad behavior and it's just like
you got to take the hit
all the time and you're always
going to take the hit but that still
stands with your principle of
I allow you a platform
to do or say what you need to
do and I'm going
to continue to do that even though
you may be an idiot even though you may
be in a butthole sometimes
uh I'll still provide the
space because that's who you
are and I accept
the fact that that's who you are
right very good and
I like the fact that
I'm brand new to the debate space
literally you know haven't tuned in with debates just
a little bit on Ben's channel which I do recommend
uh and the dogface
deliberating dudes over there
uh but in your system
it's your chatters that
there are people in your chat
that actually are like
can boot somebody out can be the
reason if they send you a super chat and
so that's really fun because that's more
like nature
you know and rather than
I mean I wouldn't hold it against
you if you just stood up
and wielded your trident and
and you were the like okay you're out of here
that might be more like me actually
but it's more
I do my rule
is if you start disrespecting me
or if you break TOS
I can do things that like are
absolutely like we can't allow that on
the space because it ruins everybody else's
right um
uh terms of service
the the youtube guidelines
uh if they say certain
slurs or certain things that could get you
your channel demonetized reported
so on and so forth we can't have that
right so when you break that
uh you're automatic it's an automatic
no we're not going to do this
um but when
when uh
when you're disrespecting me if I'm
telling you x y and z and you're just
absolutely being a butt about it not listening
whatever okay now now it's
time to go because you're not respecting the
platform and the space uh
and it's time to go so that
that's when I will directly speak up
but but all of the other behaviors
and stupid silly things you know
you're right I leave it to the chat let the
people vote let the people handle
you the chat always wins and that's my
role is because people will say
who won the debate the chat the chat
always wins they'll roast you there
they are the ones who get to vote on
stuff they are the ones who get to
determine your endeavors
and your your whether you lost
or whatever the case may be
they'll roast you they'll roast me
um but they get to decide
uh whether you
should be on this screen or not and
and I think that turning that over
to the people number one it keeps my hands
clean it keeps me neutral but number
two it's what they want it's their show
let them run it
very good I love it yeah
that's that's really cool
people slur all the time yeah I notice
there's been a little drinkin going on
on the channel sometimes
different uh occasions
you could call it and
that definitely is an influence
do you notice
like do you ever do themes
where it's it's like alcohol
or cannabis or
psychedelics or something
which keeps coming up so funny
uh we used I used to do
uh I I used to host
four different series of streams
um before I went straight
to debate stuff
um number one was the mod Monday
uh then we have
the throwdown Thursdays which originally started
as roasted tomatoes where
I would actually do a topic and talk
about it and then I'd open the panel but
I switched that into interviewing people after
that and then that turned into
throwdown Thursday where I would I
obviously interview people
they give us their thoughts
and then the panel comes on and fights
them so because it just kind of started becoming
that so we started doing those um
and then I did the sleepy tomato
which has now made its comeback but then
we did sipping streams
sipping streams were always fun it was
every Saturday night uh we just
get cantankerous I'd have my two drinks
and it was like
open door policy welcome bring your own
booze let's have some fun
uh those went away
obviously it got a little
it because it wasn't
focal pointed on debate we bring them back every
once in a while but we've had people come
on that are completely sloshed
we've had people come on that are
you know obviously stoned we had
a guy last night that was on and he
you know the way he was
interjecting into the conversation was
very uh irrelevant
uh and I remember asking him at one
point I'm like have you been drinking
like are you high what's going on and
he's again and like a beers and
then this and that and it's like
do me a favor and just shut up for the night
like don't just don't talk just sit there and
look pretty and shut up for the night because you are
now wasting everybody's time
um but
maybe we have our funny moments and
the idea is to kick back
and lay back and and have a good
open panel once we get to that
point but during the debate I want them to
be serious and on point and focal pointed but
but the open panels it's kind
of like come as you are have some fun
kick off your shoes and uh have the
conversation if you get cantankerous
and we we can have some fun with
it and make fun of you
very good and do you know what Ben's referring
to here trains eat the sound of humans
to run or maybe that they're just chatting with themselves
trains eat the sounds
of humans
to run
uh
not even a sentence I guess
don't care you must be talking
amongst themselves no problem I just thought there was
some behind the scenes language that I
would I want to know what the behind the scenes
languages for that yeah
exactly fill us in you guys
so um
yeah
I'm curious about that whole
neutrality because it's become popular
culture now I'm not
saying this is for you but if we can talk you know just
in general around it it's become
part of popular culture not to care
so there's that book let them right
if they're going to do XYZ then
just let them
you know if they're going to
be uh drunk and belligerent
let them to a point obviously
you know again not not talking
about you specifically but
this um there's a certain freedom in it
where you're not needing
to run after every person to manage
them to change their mind
to save them as often
the case right like oh you're in danger
and I'm going to push you out of the way of that
train that's coming if we talk trains
and and then the
the flip is that you
don't care that you
it's like hands off okay
you want to run in front of a train you run
in front of that train you just go
ahead and do that I don't care
uh you know there's a lot of
podcasters they they talk about the
whole
agenda and the pandemic and all
of the things that are coming down
at us and they've decided
not to care that they
want to kill off
the vast majority of the population
on earth and and they just
don't care so this is something
I'm curious what you think
but to me this is not a positive
move actually
what do you think? No I
agree with you 110%
for instance if I was watching
a good friend of mine
do something stupid I'm
going to stop them I'm going to tell them
don't do that now when it
comes to people on the internet that's a whole
another ball game I don't care like you
have friends and family who should care
about you you have friends and family who
should be doing those things like that's up
to you but people who are
close to me people that matter I do
care I do care to
ensure
that they're safe that they're being
smart if they say something and I'm
like dude that's nuts why would you
even think that
and I think that that's
kind of where society's gotten
is to a place of
being so lax
that we are letting our friends
do bad things and I don't
think we should be doing that if we walked
around to our friends and family and give
them a little knock upside the head every
now and then most people would probably
have their heads out of their asses instead of in
however comma
we're at this like
live and let live concept
we're at this point of
allowing
like
best friends girlfriends where I
where the girl starts
dating a bad guy or something
and the friend says well if he
makes you happy no
he's a bad guy he's like
you know the drug lord
or something crazy like no knock her
upside her head and tell her to get out of that because that's
not good for her
I think we should
carry some weight
for the people we care about I think we
should put our foot down
and say no you're being stupid I think we
should not let
them now
do I have control over
some random person walking
down the street no should I
care to throw my opinions at them
no that's for their family
their inner circle their community
to do so
and and I think
that
I think
we got into this weird place
especially millennials I think
like people my age where we
we just we ice we went into
isolation mode like this is mine
this is this is all I care about
anyone else do your thing where
we forgot to
take care of our family our friends we
forgot to keep them on the track we
forgot that that it's that support
system that kept us on the tracks
and that's where we got lost
yeah really well said I like
that
that's interesting about the millennials
and and that isolation mode that
I think is a big part of that
yeah it and it's tricky
because
I like I agree with what you're saying
but say in a in a practical situation
where you do see your girlfriend
going out with the wrong guy
and you tell her listen he's not good
for you what's going to happen
what's the outcome of that going to be
great well
well I
think knowing and this
goes back to people in the people
knowing how your friend is and how
they'll react or engage or
respond to what you're saying
I think that's the important part
you know leading with care typically
women should lead with care towards
other women look I care about you
and here's what I want to tell you
and here's why if you
go to a woman and say don't do
that she's probably gonna rebel
and say I'm a do it now anyways
so understanding
and knowing how to interact and engage
with other people but if that
person is your friend they're gonna put a
lot of credibility to what you're telling
them and they're probably gonna listen
it may not be in that moment
but it's gonna sit like inception like a
little seed in their brain and as they start
seeing things they're gonna be thinking even further
but
again you can't control the world
but sometimes you
have to cut loose
but you know like
let the bad apples roll down the hill
if your friend is
doing something that's absolutely terrible
for them let's say even
drugs right let's just use a really easy
one if you have a friend that gets
into drugs and you're trying to tell them don't
do this you have to cut them
off if they're not listening you have to
because if not you're gonna keep enabling I
won't be your friend if you do bad
behavior therefore I'm going to
let you I have to cut you loose because
that is negative and I don't want that in
my life and that usually
is the bigger kind of smack
in the head and when we when we
remove ourselves from them remove
access but
even girlfriends like I think if
if I
tell girlfriend hey that
guy's bad for you don't do it and then
you know two weeks later she's like hey come
hang out with us we're gonna go do it and I'm like no
I I don't want anything to do with
that she's gonna get the picture that
your boyfriend bad
I don't want to hang with boyfriend
yeah yeah I get it
so like here's the challenge
we're in the nursery archetype right now
if anyone doesn't realize this is all
like when it comes to enabling
and you know
caring and and trying to interfere
with people best you can
out of love like you said
you know lead lead with care
right then that's if
you can truly get to that place where you
you care meaning the vibe
is love you're not afraid for them
you're not you know
trying to control them
make them a different person make
them love someone different they
will get that that's the unconscious
language going on if you come at them with
fear they're going to react to that
and have something to push against and resist
and if you come with love
then it's much more
palatable at least if you're
say able to deliver tough love
some relationships can stand that
and some can't
you know like I've got
an aunt reaching out to me post-plandemic
I've seen her once in six years and she's always
oh I really want to see you
and then she always cancels on me
when the time comes I know I know
it's it's kind of like oh because
it would be nice to have some family connection
but there's this
you know and I when I
if we really end up seeing each other
in 12 days which is the next plan
that isn't broken yet
then it part of me
is is going through this like I kind of want
to deliver some kind of
message and talk about
rather than just sweep it all under the
rug what happened there was some
I'll be dramatic here there was some violence
right like there was some some cuts
not not like physical violence but
right emotionally being
being you know ostracized by
a family that is
you know quite extended and everything
and then and then to just go on and
pretend that didn't happen
and nothing wrong happened
like an ostrich kind of putting its head
in the sand right right
you know there's yeah I
I'm working through that right now
just how to do I just
be I don't know
some of the things I think are better
left unsaid
in action speak louder
right so
for instance one family member
randomly cut me off or something
but I still engage with another one
I like
that's what I care about is is engaging
with that person even though something else
happened I want to be a part
of you I want to be here
and your dealings with them are your
own you know if
they bring it up and want to talk about it
you know I could still throw my opinion in there
like I care about everyone or whatever
and I don't want anybody to be cut off
because we were stronger together
but still like let the action
speak in whatever
way you want them to speak sometimes words
just make it crazy
yeah exactly yeah
I still have some work to do about that
yeah
yeah let's see where do we want to go
there was a comment here from Ben
Odin says if you want to be happy do not
be wise
so yeah that one was the most one
that's pretty good
do not be wise
yeah ignorance is bliss
I've discovered that
ignorance is bliss
sometimes like
with the quotations
with quotations
but there are instances where I'm like
God I would so much of rather not
know any of this
it's like going to Disney World
after you've already worked there for 10 years
and you know all the behind the scenes
stuff and it just takes away all the magic
like I don't want to know everything
I just want to just be bump
be bump and go do the roller coasters
and have my little lemonade out of a
swirly straw and have some fun
not knowing anything behind the scenes
is going on sometimes
it's just so much happier but when
people like
show you everything behind
the scenes it's like ah
that was not beneficial to me
but
wisdom does I mean
it does help though too because then
in a moment
where you would
love to just be happy and be bump along
you're actually
able to know and understand better
why you can't be happy and be bump
along and this is not a time to be bump
along if that makes sense
I don't know if that makes sense
yeah I mean some things say
it was just like you know
that whole thing
it's been a long slow trickle
PTSD also for those that
made it through I'm curious maybe I'll start
with a question about this what happened
for you in 2020 how did
things shift and change
for you at all what was going through your mind
oh goodness
that was very stressful
the kids being
brought like having to be
at home it was right in the middle of
tax season and I worked for a financial
management firm at the time and tax season
for us was I mean I was pulling
80 hours a week like it was my job now
thankfully I was already working from home
to begin with but I was working
from home and my kids were at school
you know like they were pre-k
or whatever and
so I had the better
capacity to do it without being
interrupted
and it was just a whirlwind I would
say of I remember what it first
happened it was like what mid-March
that year and
it was like
what are we supposed to be expecting
what is supposed to be happening like
and you're seeing things get taken
away slowly like
one little piece at a first you
can't do this now you can't do that now
it has to be limited now it has to be a
mass now now everything shut down now
blah blah blah blah blah and
it was miserable because it's like
you don't know what else is
next like what's next and
I remember sitting there looking out the window
one day and I'm like just bring
on the zombie apocalypse let's at least
make it fun and worth it like
give me something interesting if I'm
going to sit here and be pondering
about the end of the world at least
bring on the zombies and just get it
over with
yeah that's so fun
you remind me of a friend I spoke with
last few nights and
they had prepped
like crazy right just
seeing the writing on the wall I had also started
to prep before the plentymic really hit
and and and then
they got so far into it and had
so much storage and we're running at
a space and it may be saying like okay
just bring it on already I want the end of the world
the crash of the financial system
the you know everybody dies
let them just bring it on make it happen already
I'm ready
like this and be
careful what you wish for but like did you
did you drink the Kool-Aid for any amount of
time for five minutes or three weeks or
anything like that no I didn't think
anything was that big of a deal to begin
with it was scary in
the beginning because you don't you didn't
know what was going on and
the information was like wait so there's
this thing that's going around and people
are getting sick okay
tell me more right
like what is actually happening
and it just didn't feel like
anybody was really knocking
in the information it didn't feel like
anything was really actually
that bad happening
and so it made it actually more frustrating
because it's like why
am I going through all of this if nothing's
happening and that's why
it's like just bring on the zombie so
I could it could be worth all of this
frustration
but it was it was more
like
I don't feel I didn't feel like I drank
the Kool-Aid I had to do what I had to
do to make things work for
you know me my husband the kids
all of those things but it
it wasn't
it was like I'm being compliant
to the degree to keep
us safe from
the government but I'm not being compliant
because I want to be compliant at this
point I just kind of have to
make stuff work
and
I didn't I didn't believe anything
I didn't feel like anything was really
happening at all I
felt like
just felt like one big
mess one big PR
mess that nobody got the memo that hey
it's really okay guys
yeah that's great
yeah I think that was
because I had got into the
would you consider yourself in the truth
movement at all I know that the debate
space is kind of its own world
but do you consider yourself a truther
or I know that
I consider myself not giving
a shit enough to put myself in any
group
by way of that I mean
it doesn't matter
whether we know the truth or not at this point
what matters is I'm gonna get
up I'm gonna go to work I'm gonna do what I have to
do I'm gonna get things done
I'm gonna take care of my kids I'm gonna feed
my kids and eventually one day I'll
pass away
so whatever is the truth
whatever is conspiracy whatever's going
on behind closed doors whatever the
government's planning it doesn't
matter because it's nothing is happening
right here right now in my home
and I just have to I have
to worry about us first
and there's
no amount of truth that's gonna come out
that's gonna change anything we're doing right now
even if you even
if I accept all of the truth
even if I accept that the you know
they're hiding things or this is happening or whatever
even accepting it
it doesn't change anything
for me
and so do you I haven't noticed this yet
come up but do you end up with
normies on your on your
debates that believe in a
bogeyman virus and
yeah we're all over the place
we have and that's the great thing about
the platform I'd say because we
we pull communities
from all sorts of different directions
and with
that comes many people
who believe one thing
don't believe another thing we have our conspiracy
theories we have our truthers we have
left right religious
atheist we have
them all over the place
and that's but that's what makes it special
you know so if there is
a truth are on screen and there's
a person who masks
up still now
today
they have the conversation
and you know you let them have
the conversation but they're they're everywhere
yeah yeah okay that's
that's really cool
let's see I just want to find a few
comments Michelle said something
happiness can be a waste of time
and doesn't do much for true problem
solving solutions so that's pretty wise
happiness can be a waste of time
and I won't do much
for uh yeah I mean
if your end goal is to just be happy
um you're not
you're not going to solve any problems
actually because if I just wanted to
focus on happiness well uh give me a
beach a margarita and I'll just lay back
for the rest of the day
but I'm not solving any problems right I'm
not taking care of anything that needs to be taken care
of right exactly you won't
create from there there's no
pressure there's no you know you actually
need some resistance or at least
we often need
resistance because I would do the same
thing just be laying out on the beach
and having a nice life no
problem uh radical sobriety
said that he was deep platform became
radicalized yeah because he was speaking
out radical sobriety
because you were saying unpopular things
um yeah
we all
experience I think at some level
I that that's when the gauntlet
came off for me speaking of gauntlet
and from your show
is that is that a separate channel by the way
the gauntlet okay all right yeah channel
uh it houses
the open panels uh
I'll start on raging tomato and then we'll
raid over to the gauntlet and that just keeps
the debate separate and the open
panel separate because
we again it's an open door and I don't
know who's gonna be stepping on stage
next uh so to keep
the original debate safe and the
original channel safe uh
we maneuver over to the gauntlet and that way
if something happens I can just dump the video
and not not be too
is concerned about
it that's cool yeah
um both ben and I were
platformed I lost my youtube channel
and lots of people got their youtube channel
back but they they said
no when I went and like pretty
please I'll be good and everything
laced at all the right things and they're like no
you you don't
deserve it you're
that is that is strange to me
that that because
especially for Americans
and I believe you're Canadian right
you're up in Canada
but for Americans
it's like this is who we
are we allow
uh people to
have the freedom of speech whether it's
right wrong off center
even even misinformation it doesn't
matter if if I want to say
it I'm gonna say it but obviously
youtube has a different policy for that
but but it's still it's
just it's strange that we would
mask
or I'm sorry
censor people's
speech for purposes
of what they believe it's
misinformation it's strange to me
mm-hmm yeah no it got really out of hand
I remember
getting strikes for
the nail in the coffin for me was talking
about controlled opposition do you ever
consider think about that or
maybe like do you end up with those
kind of people in the debate space have you
ever been able to identify oh there's
a well-poisoner
or
people
what do you mean by controlled opposition
so in every war
there is the
um outright
opposition you could call
I'll use the word us those who stood up
and said no there's
you can't force me to
put a poison injection in my body
you can't you know tell
me what to do you have no authority show me
the law and
so that's the obvious opposition
and so they manufacture
as a that
is fueled by a propaganda machine they
manufacture a controlled
opposition so they appear
to be the opposition they
they have the narrative of the opposition
which they harvest
the words that you can literally
tell see how they were
picking up our on our dialogue and then
spreading it out
they don't get
censored they have large
audiences they often
are fear porn spreaders
they might have you know
80 to 90% of what they're
saying is true and then they take you
sideways on some very key
10% kind of points
to maintain certain things
in place like a big lot of the controlled
opposition will was
pushing that the
the boogeyman virus is a
bioweapon engineered
in a lab well
you know to the best of my knowledge
and research that's a pile of crap
and what it does is it holds
germ theory in place
as if germs are
the sole cause of disease therefore
we are always going
to need to be saved
from this
you know whether it's germ warfare
or just you know nature's more
fair then
that whole paradigm what it meant is
they could have planned demict us into
the future indefinitely
right but if you dismantle
that whole paradigm then
people are like no I get sick
because I'm toxic and deficient
right two reasons
right and
and you know they can poison us
that's that's more or less what the
strategy is so
then that yeah the controlled
opposition are out there making sure
those paradigms don't die
the ones that power hinges
on especially medical tyranny
I did a whole
I mean I would say even
in the debate space you have people that
will like
it's easy to twist words
and shift gears
without people realizing it's happening
live
and they don't even realize it till after they
go back and listen
and then they're like oh crap they
did it to me like they redirected
me and I didn't even realize what they were
doing but yeah we have a lot
of well poisoning a lot of
controlling the narrative a lot of a lot
of that happens in the debate space you just have to
be smart enough to know that it's happening when
it is that's the only way to combat
it honestly
yeah it'd be interesting is anyone
called anyone out
and openly called them controlled
opposition or anything like that
yeah
but then if you're good at controlling
the narrative you can just spin it
you can gaslight your way through a debate
very easily
totally not that hard
not at all
Alex Jones says
a few true things and he always gets
me it's funny because I've been watching him on
Luke's stories channel that I did an interview
on in Texas last year I guess
and the first parts of the conversation
you must know Alex Jones
say he's I know the name
I know the name okay so yeah he's a big
figure in the truth telling world
he could some people might call him a grandfather
along with Freeman
and
so the first parts of his
conversation I always lean into him and I'm
like oh he's a nice guy he's like a real
human being there's something and then
the second and you know if
there's like a third hour
it ramps up it gets into the whole
fear porn the adrenaline
the jumping up and down on the
desk and telling you where you're going to
die and all this kind of stuff
and that's to me
that's the drama
capture though that's how you
harness the audience
right you're appealing to their
emotions in order to make them want
to keep coming back to your information
so staying on a
same level up front
like you know here's the information here's what you
need to know but you're going to die
and then they're like oh my god
I have to come back tomorrow to get more
you know that's immediate
it's finest
exactly yeah they're playing on the
addictions they know that fear sells
and keeps
people magnetized
so yeah that's and I call those
guys that jump up and down on the desk clowns
right they got a
show and they're like oh
look at me I'm a weirdo
and they
discredit the whole entire
movement
right if they're like
that then
what do you call
sullies the water is that the expression
sullies muddy the water
muddy thank you yeah I don't know
so bad at expressions
I was asking chat GPT last night what
some expression meant and there's like there's no
expression like that I'm like okay I made it up
I
well yeah that's like
that's like a dad getting a dad
joke wrong or something right to
do expressions yeah
yeah pretty good
and I'd be curious
this is totally tongue in cheek here
but I'd be curious if you ever had
a group that would
debate on psychedelics
while they're on psychedelics
or debate about psychedelics
could be could be both but
the the more interesting
one would be
on
uh like
the topic is psychedelics
no no that they would be
on it maybe they could debate psychedelics
while being on psychedelics
so they are they are tripping
and debating see
right
right uh yeah
I mean goodness
uh I've thought of
the idea of like doing a drunk debate
for funsies uh so
I mean why not throw in psychedelics
like I don't even
know if I don't know because then you
get to a point where you're trying to
get through a cover I don't know I
would probably have to be the only
one who is not
inebriated to whatever degree
to make sure like hey you good man
right exactly it could get fun
it could get fun I think that could
be very very interesting because a lot
of the veils come down
and uh I think my psychedelic days are
over I mean it's behind me I
don't I'm not hungry for that anymore I find
the world plenty psychedelic now that
you know the real the real world
but uh yeah I think that I think
that would be so interesting that you
see a really different side of people
there's it's hard to run a persona
you know we all
kind of protect behind their personality
and doing this we don't
really want anyone to see you and
uh compared to booze that
it it dissolves
your boundaries
and people think that's a good
thing but there's
something just so toxic about
it I don't know I mean probably booze
and psychedelics are equally toxic
to the person ingesting them but
there's something there's something different
that can happen so I encourage
you to or something
like that I've never I've never
done like any type of
psychedelics uh I mean
any type of I don't like
being out of
control of my body if that
makes sense and I don't like the feeling
of being high or
not knowing or
or
not being of us of a
you know I'm in my mindset and this is who
I am I never liked that
or enjoyed it uh so
psychedelics would actually scare me
because I wouldn't want
I wouldn't want to be I wouldn't want it to be
so open and doing whatever it feels like
doing in that aspect uh
it's a lot of people have explained to me
about like doing uh like
shrooms or whatever and I'm like
that sounds great for you that sounds
scary that's a scary thought for me
I'm in my own head and I don't even
want that place to be open
or
or exposing any other
like new things it's it's a
scary thought and I I'm too
I would say I'm too much of a
control freak
in a sense to to ever want
to do that right right
yeah it's one of those arenas um
that you get out of
your comfort zone again
being that construct of
who you think you are and when
that construct dissolves
it's extremely freeing
it's very challenging because
there's it's like well who am I
and what do I have to hold on to and all
these ideas that you have
that make up your your psychic
world they just like
just not there anymore or they
can warp and change and that really depends
on the individual in that
situation and it can also very much depend
on the the nature of the substance
and how much and
you know the motive behind
it to me I'm always a
reader and and putting motive
as a very important factor
how what you're motivated from
is going to color everything
that you that you do
like the whole ayahuasca journey
um culture
it's turned into a whole culture where
people are doing these ceremonies all the time
they're doing these medicine and
uh you know that I felt like
the medicines taught me
their lessons I got the lessons
that's I've always gone to it for
education much more so than
entertainment uh I don't
really find it that entertaining
but massively educating
in in that you know
just being able to see beyond the veil so
I like uh I mean
I like
I enjoy
growing uh like I said
earlier education to me is very important
important learning something new every day but I
also like to know that
I'm growing and changing and
and figuring my own
self out I like to be very aware
of it I like to be very
um like I want
to be able to navigate it myself
uh so the idea of
allowing a substance to
to open
that up tells me that I wouldn't
have been able to do it myself
right and I want to be able to do it
myself so it's up to me to be
able to find
those pieces and find that journey or
figure out like am I
am I doing what I need to do
am I who I am am I a good person
like I want to run that narrative
in my own brain and let it
uh filter through on its own
mm-hmm yeah I hear you
I would never try to convince anyone otherwise
it would be dangerous and you'd blame me
if it didn't go well
that's so scary I didn't do that
yeah what were you thinking
I have been known to
lead people down certain roads
that might not always go well
and uh yeah this
it is it often is about
control some people will say oh
let go of control and I say
I'll call bullshit on that you can't
let go of control you can
act out of control you can
feel out of control you can be
wanting control which is the
programming that stops you from
realizing you're actually in control
but if you can navigate
spaces and find yourself
and and be you know find
true authentic control
in places where it's
it feels out of control
there there's a mastery that
comes through that so I can relate to what Ben's saying there
you know uh I did a
hypnotherapy a few
years back and to me that was
the best way uh to
dive into my own little brain
um and now I now
I can create that so
if I need to if I'm like
man I'm just
I'm in a crazy
headspace I need to go back down to
the pits of hell and figure out what's going
on back there uh that's something
I can do consciously
on my own and
and like go deep
dive when I need to because
I taught myself how to do that and
I enjoyed the
journey of doing that I guess I could
say so being able to navigate that
consciously now is
is even more
uh it's like
I discovered a door back there
in the back of my brain that now I have a key
to all the time and I could just
go in it when I need to and I think that
to me being able to do that
without having to do anything to get there
is I think
that's more valuable
yes absolutely not
to rely on any substances and not to
suffer the toxicity because that's
that's like one of the main reasons if it was
free meaning there was no cost
to the body there I might have
more um interest
but it's it's not free at all
and frankly the
you just get lessons and
and lessons aren't learning
right you just you
just get like here's what you need to work
on okay well got it
now I need to go work on it right
right so the information thanks for the tip
thanks for the tip thanks for the tip
again oh thanks for the same tip
again I started noticing
these kind of patterns so it's like yeah I don't need to go back
to any medicines to to teach me
again that makes sense so I appreciate
what you're talking about but this is
surely for the uh entertainment
of
you know just watching the debate space and people
people put themselves in those
situations and it is
um it can be compelling
right like to just watch them
fly it's it's a sort of
improvisation right that
no one has any idea
necessarily what's going to come
out of their mouth or anybody else's
mouth it doesn't have it's
not scripted and
um it can be very powerful
for the same reason you know
psychedelics totally is I don't tell you
why I had that on the mind by the way but
um you get to see
what's inside of you
and you
sometimes you don't see that until
there's
some action right if you're
just in your own world and it's predictable
and you're interacting
with people that you have more of a routine
around your interaction
like with family and that kind of thing
but you throw yourself into
an arena and
um sometimes something comes up
out of you that have you ever noticed
people are like
have literally been surprised at
themselves they probably wouldn't reveal that
in a debate space
that's not a very good question I don't know
um
I don't know I mean
have you ever been shocked what came up
out of you in terms of
in conversation
like in the debate space in
online
sometimes I'm surprised
at my level of patience
like
I
and it's funny that it's patients
because that's the one thing I always felt
I lacked in
um and that's something that
probably over the last five years
I've been trying to work on
being more patient with
people again and again and again
and I don't feel like I have
that ability
then I keep hearing it all the time like
you have the patience of an angel you know
um but I think because I'm always working
on it right and so I'm
actively pursuing
to give a level of patience that I need
and sometimes I do surprise myself
with my ability to
you know because some people
hear things that people say
on my screen or to me or whatever
and they're like how are you just
chill
when they say stuff like that to you
and it's like
like what do I care
it's just some dude on a screen
you know they're not hurting me
they're not here with my children
they don't sit at my dinner table
but I think that I still surprise
myself in having that
attitude towards it
and even
being able to grant myself the ability
to
woosa internally and not react
because I'm a very reactive I'm a very
reactive person
like uh I think my temper
has been probably one of the things
my parents would say like oh like
don't piss off Sarah I shouldn't hurt
temper like careful so go
mad apeshit but you don't see
a lot of that here on the screen a lot
of people probably wouldn't even think I have a temper
at all but
except raging tomato
except the raging tomato
that's not even why I got my name
okay I want to go into that but let's
talk patience for a few more minutes here
about uh the one thing I learned
about patience is don't pray for it
you know why
because that makes you more impatient
because it'll bring in
circumstances where you're going to need
patience
oh
same thing we don't pray for strength because
you're going to attract situations where
you need to come up with strength you think
you don't have and you'll show it to
yourself because ultimately we don't lack
patience we don't lack
strength we just
don't see it
we haven't been testing it
unless you want to be tested
yeah I mean I always just looked at
uh there was there's a lady that lives
in my neighborhood who I was
fairly good friends with
and I just always looked at her
and I thought like wow she's so patient
with everyone she's so kind she's so pleasant
and I always wanted to mimic
that because it's like man
I aspire to be that piece of you
um
praying for it you know I would say
like yeah I used to it used to be the
thing that I would ask God for like
please just teach me how to be more patient
and I guess you're right like he did put me
a whirlwind where it's like all right
you asked for it
here you go figure it out
um but I never I never
thought I was
right yeah it's the best workout that you're
doing I'm also reminded of Garrett Smith
that I talked about a little bit on our
on our channel and so he
sees people on a regular basis about their health
he's a naturopathic doctor and I'm part
of what's called office hours behind
the scenes once you're a client
then you can go to these meetings
so we get to see him
helping other people because it's in a group
and his patients
is off the charts
compared to his public persona
you might guess that he's not patient
and he's kind of you know just kind of like
blocker delete you if you ask
or say the wrong thing
but once you're in his world
and you're working with them
then he will go to the end of the earth to be patient
with you you might have asked the same
question a hundred times
you might have like tried to get his
okay on something
for the hundredth time and he'll
just he keeps an even tone
he never like oh this again
or anything and I'm the one in the
back end going like could she just
be quiet already
stop it yeah yeah
so I have a lot of admiration for that
that quality and it is a virtue for a
reason right like this is this is
the opposite of the bridge
burner kind of
a way of being in the world
and I also practice a lot of patients
in my work because
I work in a subject that is not
an easy not to crack
by any means
and people the tendency is to
remember and forget and remember and forget
and remember and forget
I'm doing a stream about that on Friday
by the way in my Bath of Fresh Air
just before I forget to tell anyone about that
and yeah
so I see you as incredibly patient
and kind and you can always
just
regulate your tone of voice even if
some people are all ramped up
and then you're even
the vocal
the vocal levels are very important I've found
you know especially when everybody
is very high level
yelling whatever
the only I'm not gonna
there's no way I can yell and be louder
to get their attention
you actually have to lower
like almost monowed into it
in order for them to actually hear it
that's just a trick
of the trade that most people don't recognize
but yeah
maintaining that like
okay guys we're going to blah blah blah blah blah blah
and then now their ears start picking up
on this lower
frequency and where everyone else is like
ah it gets a lot
crazy
I'll share a real quick story
I worked in Nepal
as a school teacher
in a village way the heck up
you couldn't even drive there
you had to walk up 5 hours
to get to this little village
and then so
I had a hard time getting any kids
to listen to me first of all
I spoke English and they spoke
Nepalese
and then I had a friend
who was also a school teacher
she was as part of the same
kind of culture exchange program
and she came into the room
and she could command them how
whispering
because she would speak very quiet
and all of a sudden everybody would just shut up
and they'd lean in and they'd want to hear
and I'm like oh so yeah
the fascinating technique
that you have to get lower to be heard
yeah and that's just
I mean that's just the level of understanding
how people
respond to different
different levels of talking
and my role is
I shouldn't have to yell to make you
hear me sometimes you have to do it
because they're just being crazy
but most of the time
I'm not going to fry my vocal chords
just because you're an idiot
like I'm just going to
we're going to monotone it
and they'll eventually
pick up on it and realize
like oh I should stop
because there's something
triggering my ear that I notice
kids actually
are very responsive to that
I've seen teachers do this
where it's the
class could be incredibly crazy
but you just start talking
just
high enough but still
very consistent and their ears
start picking up and say
something's different, something's different
and they look for it
but yeah it's impressive
indeed
and then just to fill in the blank
the reason I was talking about the psychedelics
is I keep coming across
if you haven't heard of Joel Schaefer
he's a guy
in the
shamanic spaces of all kinds
and that's something I went through
a little bit in my world also
I studied about shamanism in university
I did a honors
what do they call it
directed study in that
and
yeah so
he's in that world
I wouldn't talk to anybody in the shamanic world
but I'm pretty happy he's going to have me on
and he's going to be on the channel probably
in the next month so that'll be fun
oh fun
yeah I find
plants people talk about plant medicine
plant spirits
there's a certain relationship that humans
have with plants
and there's
something just
comes up
yeah I would definitely agree with that
I think we need to be more
in sync with our
our ground
our plants the trees
the nature around us
I think we need to sync back in with it
we've gotten so out of sync and I think that's why people are crazy
so
yeah it can help a lot
I did that this morning
when I just
oh it's sunny today and there's no chemtrails
amazingly enough I shouldn't say that out loud
but
I got myself into a natural environment
and I talked to the geese
they're making their way out of Canada
I don't know exactly where you're located
but we're in the north
let's say here in Canada
and a good
you know could be half of our
of our time is more like
winter and the geese
the ice finally
made
a thin layer not a
good layer of ice like it will be
so the geese are sitting on there but the sun's
beating down on it and
the goose fell through the ice
so
yeah it was all ice around them
and then they're like trying to
claw their way out I just wanted to
go in there and grab them or something
but they managed to break through
yeah it's pretty nice
it's adorable I would actually probably pay
to watch that
it's a good show we get the Canada geese
for about I don't know they'll come back
in the spring maybe April
and stay around until
the snow flies a little bit after
so yeah I like that they call them
Canada geese I was in New Orleans
and I saw Canada geese
that was pretty fun to fly
all the way south to find those guys
and whereabouts in the world
are you you don't have to say
I'm in Maryland actually
so when you guys had those
big fires we were actually
getting all the smoke
we had a
really weird fog and
I mean God there's a lot of states in between
us
but we had this whole
it was for like a week straight of this
just dense air
and kind of like a foggy
misty smoky
atmosphere around for
gosh it was forever when you guys had that fire
it was
pardon me it was
it was very
I couldn't imagine how much more worse
it would be if I was in Canada
having to see it but
if that's what we were getting here I was like
goodness gracious this is ridiculous
yeah it ate up a lot of our summer
we had to there's typically fires
but not at that time of year we had them
starting in the spring
and then it ruined the whole
summer and
yeah it was madness
I believe that's totally engineered personally
that was never the case
yeah between
chemtrails and just fire starters
so yeah I haven't
Maryland is the east coast of the
US is that right? Yeah
you're in eastern time I haven't ventured over
in that direction at all
and
so I was going to ask you
what are your favorite subjects
that people come and debate on your channel
just from your own perspective
I hate politics
as much as we host
politics doesn't always get me
I'm always like
not again
because it's usually just
the same old
same old surface level talking points
again and again and again and again
you're never going to hear anything different
it's always going to be the same
well your side did this well your side did that
well we want to do this well we want to do that
and it's never changing right
it's just repeat washrooms repeat
but
other questions
like topics that are off
beat from the normal
you know
left versus right
feminism bad
and
I don't know
like the basic standard approach
surface level prompts
but when you deep dive into something more
detailed and specific like
morality
application of law things like that
like the Monday night debate I
loved that I was so
in tuned I was so like oh this is
so good because they were diving into
morality in the application thereof
and I love that stuff
but when was that on the subject
that rhymes with corn
no no no Monday
Monday was
the
American
morality or American
moral proposition
and it was it was
it was beautiful
and we had three was the three
lawyers on the screen actually so it made it
great it made it very good for
the conversation because they should all be
very well versed in morality
and the principles of philosophy
but
but yeah the I love the
topics that
pinpoint and narrow down into
a deeper space versus just the surface
level is thing bad
you know so it can
vary there's there's some that are fun
like we did a is casual
sex good for society
conversation that was fun
and that was really fun you know the conversation
and the people bring
the heat so they make
it enjoyable but outside
of that I'm pretty content
if it's just regular politics I'm like
but anything else is fun
and are there subjects
that you're actively
putting out that you're
kind of driving the topic on
no
usually I it's a bring
your own topic kind of thing
so I'll have one
person put forth a prompt
and from that I build the panel
around them
the fun part is knowing
who's going to connect better who's going to
like bring heat who's going to be a little quieter
that's where the the real fun
is but everybody brings
one you just have to give me one topic
that you really really want to do
and I will piece the rest of it together to make
it work for you that's cool
good to know so you take suggestions
if I come up with some
oh yeah
people do suggestions but most of the time
it's the person who wants to debate it
yeah that makes sense rather than going out
and does anybody want to talk on this
yeah that makes sense
yeah now I used to do it originally the other way
where I would come up with a topic
and then I'd have to find
four people to put together for
Mod Monday
and I would try to
spare it out to where I know one person's
really heavy leaning this way and then
the other teammate would be kind of that way
and then this I would do
the same for the other side so you get four
completely different opinions on the screen
and then they all end up just arguing
but then later on I formatted
and structured a little more differently
to where one person gives me the topic
I will find
their partner or they can bring their own
partner and then I find them the opposition
that works and
that seems to work more structured
and more formality wise
but
that one person
really gets to duke out a topic they feel very strongly on
and so it works
I'm trying to remember the one that I was on
it seemed like there was only one guy
who held his position
and everybody else
was on the
different side what was it
it was about does the deep state exist
oh
poor oh my god poor vibe
because he thought strongly that
he's like no it's not
it's not that crazy
and everyone else was
I think you were on that one right?
everyone else was just like yes it is
and that's hard
that's hard to sometimes
when you're kind of outnumbered
to even be able to
register the idea of like
okay I'm about to take on a whole bunch of people
who feel very strongly
and there's a lot of damning evidence against him
right so
it could be tough
I get it
yeah that was good you were giving him airtime
like okay guys you gotta let him speak
he's the only one on that position
if you're not outnumbered
like that I think that's only
right and fair
and what do you notice
in terms of people being
I have no idea if you do this
but there must be in your head
some kind of a rating system
going on like this person is good
in a bit debate this person is
you know tends to be
better behaved this person can
not talk when other people are
talking this is something like
streaming is not set up for
multi voices so people need to
know that when
more than one person talks at a time
you can't hear anything
nothing it neutralizes
it neutralizes everyone
yeah no I have what
like almost like playing cards
like baseball cards but for debaters
I have an entire
information sheet
I mean most people I just know
I just know how they are
how they operate what they would work good with
what kind of topics would engage them
you know what things get them pissed off
what things keep them chill
and just knowing
who to pair up with who on that
usually I start with the topic level
right who would want to debate this topic
but then I maneuver into
who is best fit for this topic
and that usually
now when people pick their own partners
from there I can't move right
I'm obviously like nothing
I can do with that one
or if it's a 1v1 and they pick them
like two people come to me and say hey we want to debate
with this topic there's nothing I could do
about that except just host it so if I know
if maybe they're both a little
on the drier side I know it's not going to be
heated and crazy that's okay but they want
to do it so I'm giving
them the space either way
but there are some people
I will absolutely say no I'm not putting those
two people on screen together because they're crazy
like they're both
just completely off the charts and they
neither of them will step down
right so it's
I think that's the most important piece
is balancing a panel and knowing who to
you know who to pair up with who
who works best for it with who
and who's going to be the mic hog
and who's going to be quiet and you just
have to know how that how that
operates
and what about emotions because
do you find that when people
are more emotional they're
less good at debating or is it
the other way around or is there any
I think that could
depend I think that I absolutely
can depend on
because we have people that
we would perceive as
getting incredibly emotional but they're just being
really entertaining
you know
so that that can go
a couple different ways there there are
there are some ladies in the
space that get a little more
on the
on the like
there you know that that that lump
in their throat kind of conversation and
they're doing you know we I've seen that
but I think it just depends
if you're passionate that's an emotion
but that doesn't
I don't think that that necessarily always negates
your ability to debate or how well you're
going to do I think sometimes it can
get in your way if you
forget like
you got to reel yourself back
in but I think I think overall the
passionate piece is good
mm-hmm yeah some fire
and some life and
and then you know it's a fun
line personally again because
Ben is my friend and I've met him in person stuff
like that it was
really funny what was I can't
remember exactly who it was but so Ben was
talking but so when Ben is making
a point sometimes it'll
sound like he's angry
because I'll read vibe
under things
I know that there's I like I'm
literally never bothered
when when Ben is
you know doing doing his angry voice
and then there was it was a one woman
was it Kell or someone like that just kept saying
like you know lower your voice
lower your voice lower your voice and
it's like
yeah kind of kind of interesting no no typically
emotions are like a drunken
situation right the more
emotion that you're running
the less clarity you have
mm-hmm the same women
get criticized for this that
we will approach every situation
emotionally rather than
logically and with the facts
mm-hmm right and we'll go
with our intuition we love
something we just gonna do it
and and men can
you know just sort through okay what's the reality
of the situation let's take
let's take some
you know so and then that
that's leading to the question around
men versus women on the debates
it sounds like you're wanting more
women to debate because typically
men are showing up more so
uh yeah I mean obviously
there's a scarcity of women
and they're all making
their way back now so I'm excited but
they were a lot of them get intimidated by the
panel they feel uncomfortable
or or there's just it's
a sausage fest I'm I'm typically used
to being the only female on
screen and you know but
I can I have very thick skin
so all of their like
to me I just look at it and these are people
on a little box right I can just shut it
down and and walk away and
they disappear right they don't matter to me
anymore um
but but women women
can not a lot of women
want to engage and
combat men uh that's
I don't blame them it can
be very dismantling it can be very uncomfortable
it can it can go in a lot of
different directions and usually
we are just
um degraded
down to well you're just emotional you're
a woman you don't have any logic or you're just
a feminist or you're just to this and it's like
it's completely away from my point
that's not even what I'm talking about you know
uh anything you say is automatically
negated it doesn't matter because
you're a woman right and
I accept that that's
par for the course but not
all women are willing to accept
that that's par for the course and they don't
it's it kind of comes down to
why waste my time they're just gonna call
me a hoe they're gonna call me a feminist
they're gonna call me a this they're gonna say
I'm being emotional they're gonna say
I'm doing that and it's an easy target
it's it's so easy for them to say
that uh and you have to
work 20 times harder
just to be just
to uh
remove their ability to even get
to those points to say that to you
mm-hmm and that's the hardest part so
yeah do you see any women
only debates in the future
oh yeah we've had we've had some
uh they're they're my favorites
because women typically draw
more eyeballs to the screen anyways
um but uh yeah
I mean if we can continue drawing
in more women I want more women on the screen
come show me you know and I even
offer I in they're all very very
aware of this that I
offer uh some
preferential treatment
and I don't think it's not fair I think
it's very fair I offer some preferential
treatment to ladies allowing
a little more space and a little more
grace in the conversation
because they're outnumbered
by very loud
uh male
male voices and it it will
tune out the females very quickly
and so I give them that little
extra space
just to
kind of balance balance the
chart now doesn't mean
every woman can just come in and bulldoze
the the show
but it simply means let the lady
speak ladies first just be
a gentleman and let her talk
mm-hmm yeah you did that for me I doubt
I would have said anything on that debate when I came
on uh but you open you
open the space it's like okay I can speak with
our space and less less
likely to interrupt people
and try to you know volume out
them or point
point out to them
yes yeah uh it just
it gets a little
uh women are already uncomfortable
they're already uncomfortable they're already
intimidated there's already a bunch
of men here that are ready to
just you know poke at them
uh not all men I'll say
there are some very kind
gentlemen in this space who I've
engaged and interacted with and I have a very
large appreciation for them but
but most women it's just
like the panel looks intimidating
it looks scary it's like
ooh bunch of men yelling like why do I
want to go up there so the more
we can uh balance the charts
out and get more ladies up
the better it's going to be I think
nice and women can be
equally as mean and
bullish and masculine
and cutting and
uh demasculating
of others so that's
uh that's yeah yeah
uh but the men
like the men
can they
can still uh
the men can
they can take it you'll be fine
okay uh
if if a woman
yelling at you or berating
you makes you emotional and
this is where men and women are different
right and people are going to say well that's not fair
why wouldn't you hold her that because she's different
than you your big strong
man okay uh
man up right and
if a if a tiny little 5-2 lady
yelling at you gets you upset
well like why are you in this space to begin
with uh she's not going to hurt you
she can't physically hurt you
uh she's tiny she's this she's that
like you'll be fine
um but even at that there's
nine men on a panel and one female
come on you'll be alright uh or even two
females you'll be alright you got all your boys
here you're you're gonna attack her
you're gonna come in in all your different angles
like if if her
coming at you bothers
you then you're letting it bother you
you know I don't think anybody should be
any man should be triggered by a
woman poking at him right
the ultimate shit test honestly
yeah exactly yeah
king hero uh monitor let's say
your measure
yeah um
yeah so I'd like
to engage the chat a little bit as
we start to approach the last 10 minutes
of the of the debate
or not debate what am I saying here
we're not we're not debating yet
I considered for about a minute
and a half like I wonder if I could host a debate
or two I might in a
particular arena where I had a vested
interest I want to see people
debate I I would probably
do that but not not doing what you do that's
that's uh next level
I'm glad you do what you do and I can just go
and enjoy and uh
yeah Lisa said uh what a refreshing
point of view it's really
cool because uh
yeah that I mean that that
I think is is uh
an important discussion that
that men and women have
and and I'm curious like what
what needs to be debated when you think
about what the
state of our world right now
and what could we potentially
have influence over
what could we have
greater awareness and education
about the debates could in fact
bring to the table not just
for the audience but for
those debating you know what are
those subjects that need to be
clarified through
through the debate are purified
I wouldn't even say what needs to be
debated we debate on a daily
basis when we have
discussions with friends family whoever
and we disagree we find disagreement
I think what really needs to
happen is people need to learn the
art of debating and communicating
themselves clearly and knowing when
they're going into emotion know when
they're uh like all of the fallacies
that are on the board for what it you know
what can happen in a debate
you need to know when somebody's
uh
uh arguing
you down the wrong direction you need to know
when somebody's trying to do this somebody's trying to do
it's not necessarily what we need to
debate it's we need to debate
better we need to be able
to communicate better we need to be able
to make sure we're being logical in what
we're giving to other people in our
arguments in our baselines
in our foundations are we
are we grounding ourselves
first before we're
speaking that language outward
that's what needs to happen
because if we did that more
our conversations would get better
our society would get better
because we'd learn how to
sit and uh
and run a dilemma
through our head and say is this
good is this bad
does this help is this
harmful and we can run that
narrative in our head on our own and logically
uh tease out
what's good what's bad what's
what's an emotion what's
uh uh what's because somebody told
me to do it what's because of this because of that
why am I doing this
you know if we did that
everything
society would solve itself
nice great answer I
love that and have you noticed
an evolution in that direction are people
becoming better debaters
over the course of time how long
again since you started this
oh gosh has it been is it been
almost two years uh
pretty pretty new still
I heard you run
four debates a week you don't feel new anymore
not that you're new to it
but just you know the evolution
of the evolution I
I mean I've seen people come on
people start
that's another
thing about my platform you don't have
to be an expert
I welcome all of the newbies the amateurs
of people who don't know how now you have to earn
your spot to getting put on an actual
uh panel like an exclusive panel
or 1v1 but
um you don't have to be the best
you can come on and start learning
you can come on and watch others and figure it out
along the way and I have seen a lot
of people grow I've had I've seen
a lot of people expand
their own channels because of what they've done
here I've seen a lot of people
network uh with each other
and grow from there on
on uh maybe not necessarily a debate
but on a topic specifically and they've
like opened their mind up to other
opinions or or or further
the discussion um
uh I I've
seen personally people
uh uplift
themselves you know by utilizing
the debate space or the open panels
and so on and so forth and
that's where I get like excited
watching watching people
maneuver out into different directions
and expand and grow upon that
so yes uh the answer is yes
yeah how nice
that's that's one of my all-time favorite things
is watching people grow
nothing tops that
mm-hmm yeah that's amazing
and uh I think we talked
about on the when you interviewed me
just your natural born
connector your networker
you take pride in that do you want to take
uh talk about that role in your life
yeah it's vital to me
uh and that's that's probably
my most favorite thing to do is
and again that comes out with the
growth piece behind it
I like to plant the seeds
or at least allow the space for the
seeds to drop and then I get to sit back
and watch all of those
seeds sprout into you know
big beautiful vines and then eventually
turn into flowers and so watching them
bloom by the end of it all
whether it's a week later or three
years later is is beauty
to me um but I like
being the guy that knows the guy that knows the guy
that knows the guy I like being at the center
of the spider web and everyone else
corralling outward uh I
consider myself to be the main hub
I consider myself to be the
the center of of
the connections between communities
um that's something I kind of tapped
into earlier like we're
there's so many different
communities that even when I'll
say oh yeah I'm interviewing
with Beth today and they're like who's
who's Beth would and I'm like oh well she comes over
from this community you know and they're
like oh I've never tapped into that community
well here go check it out here's what they do
right hold on just to say hold
on hold on just a second I've got a kid
kid
whoops I just yeah she went
off camera for a second there
you see Dusty's throwing shade
in your chat at
Sarah yeah I can't see that chat I don't
think on her wrist or her dual
stream and uh you're taking
care of business over there that's great fantastic
yeah so the last thing I'm going
to ask Sarah is about the name
Raging Tomato where that comes from because
you can't just overlook that
I had some fun with her
image and working that into a
thumbnail uh
coming up I'll just say before
um I
we get to the last question I'll
just say coming up Friday is
my regularly scheduled
Beth of Fresh Air podcast
I'm going to do this on
memory and remembering
and forgetting
I love picking just one tiny little
morsel of a subject and then
watching how it blooms
and mushrooms out and
becomes quite a
meaningful discussion so I do depend on
people coming for that because
the chat is a really good way to
bounce ideas around
and have something to
to play off that's why I do my shows live
it's way more fun it's way
more engaged I'd rather know that
there's living breathing people out there so thanks
to everyone who is chiming in
in the chat today and uh yeah Friday
I'll be going live at
uh 2pm
central time central standard time
and uh so Sarah's ready again
awesome
that's the only bad thing about
working from home is like
when you're at work
you know the kids don't recognize
you're at work don't don't
you can't just barge in a door
when I'm working
how old are your children again
uh my daughter's 16
she knew what was up she already knew
she hears my voice downstairs
she already knows like what I'm doing
uh but my 10 year old son
uh whoo he just like
opens the door and just doesn't understand
like everyone can hear you talking
don't do that
you're right
he's still trying to understand like where that line
is uh the door shut
you don't come downstairs
he just got home from school so that's
why he's like what are you doing
what are you doing
that's nice
alright well I'll be letting you go pretty soon
do you want to talk about what uh
raging tomato means where did that name come
from
it's uh from the Hormaxer
that is a person a character
that is another content creator
if you know him you know what I'm talking about
if you don't know him you don't want to know him
uh but when I first originally got
started in a space I think this was
uh 2021
uh I originally started
just by jumping on
uh playing with fire it's another channel
Alex he uh hosted
speed dates and he needed girls to come on
and I thought oh that sounds fun
so I went on and I was
a girl that did the speed dates so
the guys come on and they talk to you for five minutes
and then Alex provides
feedback on how good
or how bad you did during that conversation
and gives give some pointers and such
well the Hormaxer
is a character who jumped on
and um
his first initial question to me
which is why I say if you don't know him
you don't want to know him
uh but he said uh
what would you think about us
going to a sex club for our first date
and I'm like
what?
like is this does this work?
like what are you doing?
and he's a total pervert
um he's addicted to the idea of going to
sex clubs he's addicted to
uh pornography um
and all of everything that goes along with
those lines well the
he didn't like the fact that I was very rejecting
of our first speed date so then the next
time I interacted with him on a panel
uh he got really
hostile and he was mad at me
and yadda yadda yadda and he's like
he's like you look like a tomato
you look like a raging
tomato your face is all red you look like
a tomato and I was like the raging
tomato
and so the chat
kind of rolls with it
and they start trolling me
uh like making fun of
me calling me a raging tomato as if it's
an insult and I was like no I
like it
now I'm the raging tomato
named by the one and only
Hormaxer
I'm so glad I asked because I could just go
on using that name and never really
have an understanding so that's yeah
yeah most people think like oh when
is she supposed to read like then they ask that in my chat
sometimes they'll be like hey I'm new here
uh when is she supposed to be
raging like when it when it does she get
angry and like that's the point
you know it had nothing to do with
the fact that I was not
temperamental or temperamental
uh it was just because my face gets red
and he said I look like a raging tomato
there you go
you're very good at your branding I really enjoy
it thank you thank you
I try yeah I I mean I'm
a business coach and I help people do some
of that stuff but I'm I'm lousy at it
for myself there's something I don't know what that is
well I mean if you think about it like you can
never nickname yourself right
your your people have to nickname
you so uh but my favorite
thing is to uh troll the trolls
so when people try to troll me
with derogatory comments like uh right now
I'm receiving the the aging
potato now um
I'll roll with it like that's the
thing you can insult me all day long
I'm gonna take it and I'm gonna run with
it and I'll make money off of it so go
ahead have at it insult
me I will turn it into money and I
love money so it works
there you go
there you go and you have an entrepreneurial
spirit around your work
and uh I don't know what you
that's uh
if you ever had any intention to be in
that line of work could you even have imagined
it uh
well no I mean
let me take that back like I grew up
on stage uh I was a little
ballerina um between
ballet tap jazz
modern hip hop swing whatever
any type of dance you name it
I did it and that's what I was into
uh I started dancing by
an age what five
um and it grew to the point
by by the time I was in high school I was
uh an apprentice I had an apprenticeship
at a studio so I was teaching
the younger classes uh I was even
teaching all the way up to grown
adults um
but uh the stage was
what I loved the most my mom would even
say that's the only place you're not clumsy
is is the minute you with
the minute you get on stage it's when you suddenly
you you know where everything's at
and you find all of your grace um
but outside the stage I'm just a clumsy
knock like trip I fall I spill
everything and then I'm in a hot mess
uh but then um
I mean I always love the stage
I always
I'll say it this way I'm incredibly
shy most people don't think that
but I am incredibly shy I don't
like to speak up I don't like to be center
of attention I don't like to be the limelight
but if it's something I'm good
at get out of my way
that is my center stage move
uh so so it kind
of I think it has its working points
so during the debates it works
because I'm okay with shutting up I don't have to
be the limelight in that you're the debater
you're supposed to be the expert on what you're doing
so I'm gonna sit back and let you talk
uh but when it is something where it's my turn
to shine I'm gonna take that light
and and I'm gonna have it all eyes on me
so I think it has a healthy mix there
and I think it works um and I think
that's that's what makes the show do what it does
could I have ever seen myself doing this
no even when I
first entered YouTube and being
just a panelist I was like nah I never
would want to run my own show because
that's that's like
what would I even do you know
like I don't care about all
of this stuff I enjoy having fun and talking
to other people but what do I care
and then it just evolved the way it did and now
here we are now I'm the raging tomato
and 10th man 36
says you are his I'm assuming
his favorite
female streamer that's really nice
yeah and he's
but he says he might be
controlled opposition
please not
fair enough fair enough
yeah yeah could be and they sometimes
they don't know like it's not
necessarily that they're self-aware
and there's not a lot of ways to actually
know that so if anyone's really interested
in in archetypes of
or in the
controlled opposition I did a deep dive and I
created the eight archetypes of
controlled opposition because I was
seeing all the characters in the show and I was
sick of
researching and being down the rabbit hole of
individuals I just wanted people to see the
patterns of how it shows up being able to
recognize it and not waste
their time in those arenas
and supporting those guys and sending them
money and all the other things
you know what I would be interested in
is if you were ever to
review a debate or open panel
and be able to sit and pinpoint
the patterns of the archetypes
and like grab at them
and see what they are and what even
you know even if if you were taking
an estimated guess in the first
1020 minutes of who's going to be
what that would
capture my attention to
see how quickly you can pinpoint
them. That would be a lot of fun
I would like that yeah there's
archetypal information there was one guy who came
in the house of free will
newly and
he said oh where do I do the quiz
and I said well if I had to guess
he was asking like what archetype I guess
he was asking me I said if I had to
guess it's the alchemist
and it's exactly what he turned
into which is actually a very rare response
in my world and
it's not magic
and it's not even like a leap of intuition
is that there's one glaring
shadow that he had
and it's they're so specific
so if you find the shadows you often can
easily find the archetype if you find
the gifts they can blur
across archetypes and not be
that specific but but yeah I'd be game
for something like that if you ever created it
I'd be happy to be yeah that
kind of role and have some fun with that
yeah women reviewing debates
in general would be really fun
you got the arena
and then the women reviewing that sounds
like a pretty decent balance
it will just be
it will just be the mean
mean women at that point that's how it would
be responded to
it could be yeah again it could
be done in a mean way just out of pride
and judgment and all that kind of thing
but it can also be done in a way that's very clean
just you know it's just seeing
seeing what is and that's to me what we
need from each other is to mirror
right we don't see ourselves that easily
just when we're on our own
but when we have relationships
and connections then
that's when we get more reflection
back because I think I'm perfect until I try
to you know
be in a relationship with someone
I would even go as far as
saying
seeing what reflects back to
you based on who the person is
and how they engage and interact
with you to me that's more
telling of who you are as a person
versus
who they are right
so if somebody interacts
and engages with you in such a mean way
and then you respond a very particular
way
I like
to see how I reflect off of
people I like to see what gets brought
out because then that tells me
with that personality
this is what you're bringing out of me
why you know do I feel
threatened do I feel defensive
do I feel combative do I feel shy
do I feel sheepish do I feel quiet
do I feel feminine do I feel
vulnerable why is it
you that is bringing that out
of me and that to me is
more vital information
than just how I'm
responding exactly yeah
because that's the mix or the marriage
the melding of the energies
and that's where there's a lot of
information a lot of data
can be good data can be
harvested from that so yeah I like
that too that's why I like to I've been
watching again Joel Schaefer and
multiple people have interviewed him
recently it's very different
interview from one to the next and people
have told me that about my interviews that they
often even if somebody has been interviewed
multiple times already that somehow
minor special so I really
appreciate that they like that
only because you're special
well thank you thank you sir
and you brought the best out of me in
our interview I honestly didn't know
how that was going to go but it was super fun
and you are getting it not everybody gets
it it's it's pretty
deep and esoteric and
way out there but but you
were grooving so that was yeah I think
my mom even said like it made sense
why why I was so captured
by what you were saying
I think we're both kind of
in the same realm of what
we enjoy
diving into
and it's people
personality people in the people
and so it makes sense
why why that works
right and then
just the 10th 10th
36th sir it gets me and I believe there are
reptilians
and there you go
so funny yeah
lack of social skills
from the red pill crowd can be true
says duck
says duck who can't even sit
on a panel without randomly spurging
there you go
that's a gift right there
we're spurting
we're spurting would be on the archetype
scale I'll give that some thought
child
yeah this child are definitely spur
spurgers
the rebel could spur out
they get lost in
well actually
the lover could spur out because they get lost
in fiery emotions
they get stuck
a king could spur out because
they're you know tyrannical
ruler
or if your people
aren't following
if they decide to rebel against
you it would
be like but I've done all of this work
for you
if there's a mutiny exactly one of the
king's biggest fears
mutiny
yeah
well Sarah this has been a wonderful
conversation I totally enjoyed it
I do recommend for anybody that it hasn't
been over to her
debate channel that you do that
and I'm going to share
a few more links I already showed
these earlier but bring them up in the chat
and
so I do recommend going to sub
to that channel and that you'll lead
you to the other channels you also have
a Patreon is there any other way that
people can
support your work
if they follow on
X insta rumble
kick twitch
YouTube
Facebook whatever
it's all there
you'll find it you'll find it all
Spotify Spotify for Spotify
listeners I know
some people prefer that method
I do as well because you don't like
YouTube gets weird with
if you want to close out your phone or do
other things but Spotify just plays
right through so
yeah I do post upload
on to Spotify and so those are all
on there as well
but yeah
fantastic
alright my dear was there anything else you want to share with us before we
close out
no no I think
I'm good okay fantastic
thank you so much for joining it's been a pleasure
just to let everybody know
I am going to be live again
on Friday like I said with the best of fresh air
that's not just complimenting
myself I do get messages from people saying
that my podcast is a breath
of fresh air so that's how I came up with the name
for that show which is
pretty fun I literally
people tell me that more than
more than a few times and then
Monday coming up Christine Massey she was
the one that blew a lot of holes
in the whole boogeyman
virus theory that that
existed she couldn't get anyone to admit
that it actually exists
and I believe I
there was 300 freedom of information
requests that she made
in official ways
and there was not a single peep
of them admitting
this virus exists in the way that
they needed to so
yeah so it's coming up next week and you can stay tuned
join me at
bethmartins.com if you would like to do an archetype
quiz there is a direct link to the quiz
I see a few people already did it well
we've been on the stream here it takes just 10
minutes to find out where on
the path of purpose you are so to me
if people live with purpose
that makes us uncontrollable and
then this is how the world
can turn around
so once again thank you Sarah it's been
absolutely a pleasure quick shout out to my
son who does the intro and the outro
music he's playing these
instruments I'm very proud mama
19 year old that is
a really good player now he's got a full-time job
and a girlfriend so I think he's playing his guitar
a little less but nonetheless I always
credit him regardless
that's so cool though
it's a family affair
exactly exactly yeah
alright everybody have a beautiful rest of your day
thanks everyone for coming in the chat and
thank you Sarah lots of love to you
see you on your channel again
absolutely thank you
alright bye for now
alright so that's not it
just a second
I got two shows and I've got
multiple personality
disorder going on
here's the outro this is my son
that was me by the way