WEBVTT

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Welcome to the Delling Pot, with me, James Delling Palme, and I know I always say I'm

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Welcome back to the deling pod near Oliver. You were about to start a

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conversation and I stopped you because I wanted to have this on air about

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when it was we did the podcast live event. I think it might have been,

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I mean, obviously I should have researched this. I think it might have

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been in 20...22?

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Gosh. Well, I think about it. It would be that it was the live event

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in a venue in London that was most recent rather than anything we've

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done remotely like this. But it's certainly years since we did this.

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And it's...one of the things I wanted to talk about was really to

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catch up with you on where you are now because I remember I was at

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the time, even though I was a newbie to this crazy world, I was

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further down the rabbit hole than you at that time. And I was trying

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to tease you on stage. I mean, not to annoy you, but I was trying

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to take you further than perhaps you were ready for at that stage.

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You asked me where I am now. I'm completely open minded.

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One of my symptoms is lack of certainty.

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Yeah.

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Full stop. And there's almost nothing that I would dismiss out of hand.

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I'm very much in a state of mind where I'm interested and

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enthusiastically listening to anything anyone has to say.

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And I don't trouble myself too much with, you know, proving

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and disproving anything if you want to get pedantic about it is

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very hard. I mean, ultimately, you're taking whatever, gravity

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or... As a non-scientist and non-specialist like

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myself, I mean, I have to trust some of what I'm told because

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I don't have the means available to, you know, to go after evidence

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in an absolute sense. And so when it comes to what were once

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bracketed, well, which are still bracketed as conspiracy theories

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and content that I would have until very recently have dismissed

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as hokum, I don't have much in that file now, if anything.

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It's all open now.

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But you trust the guy in the wig, in the long wig.

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Who's that?

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I'm gravity. Newton.

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Not necessarily no. I mean, I'm just...

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There are things that I know are there.

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There's an effect that I feel there are phenomenon that I sense.

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Yeah.

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You know, phenomenon that I sense.

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But I'm not big on belief, but I'm strong on faith.

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I don't mean a religious faith, but I...

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You know, as the WB Yates poem has it, you know, the best

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lack all conviction while the worst are filled with passionate intensity.

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I'm a bit there. I lack conviction because I've been so rattled

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over the last few years that I don't want...

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It's like going from... It'd be like getting divorced,

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having found out that your spouse had been serially unfaithful

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and then just immediately getting married again.

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I'm wary once bitten.

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Yeah. Well, funny enough, I was having that conversation

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with another friend recently, another sort of fellow rabbit whoreless.

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And we were talking about how you can tell whether somebody is authentic

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or not in our realm, in our sphere.

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Not that I believe in spheres.

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And... Or globes anyway.

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And he said that one of the things...

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One of the hallmarks of the true truth seeker is permanent skepticism

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and a lack of dogmatism.

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I think dogmatism is usually a tell that somebody is either compromised

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or at least they haven't learned the lesson yet.

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Yeah. I mean, dogma, I'm not... I do not adhere to dogma.

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Even skepticism, I find that slightly pejorative.

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It has slightly negative overtones about it.

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I know it needn't.

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But when someone says, insists to me that the following is true,

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I just... I try not even to be skeptical.

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I just listen to them and let it lie as a possibility.

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I've just become completely open-minded.

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Sure, but you must have started heading towards a grand...

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It's a dangerous way to start a sentence, James. I must. Must I?

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No, you don't have to. But I'd be surprised if you didn't.

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I think there was something slightly...

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Well, odd about you.

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In as much as...

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Surely the curiosity that has led you to your position now

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is saying to you, well, the truth exists.

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Don't you kind of want to find out what the truth is?

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Yes, I believe... I believe that there is truth.

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But I think it's hard to find.

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I'm not... I don't mean that.

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I just... I'm so much more open-minded now than I was.

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And I take almost nothing as read.

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I'm prepared to believe in alternative...

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However many alternative explanations,

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I hear for a phenomenon or a sequence of events.

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I'm prepared to listen to them.

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But I don't come down hard with certainty on anything.

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Yeah.

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I'm just... Like I say, I'm just rattled.

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That's where I am. You said, where are you now? I'm rattled.

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Yeah.

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And I don't mind. I don't mind.

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I feel quite a load off my shoulders, I suppose.

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One of the things I did...

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We met because when we all started going down the rabbit hole together

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around about the time of the Covid madness,

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we were sort of flailing around for people that we could trust

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with whom he has something in common

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that would give us an insight into what was going on.

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And there was this weird...

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Mostly our friends and families didn't follow us down the rabbit hole

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and thought we were nutcases.

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And we found ourselves in this strange room

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full of all these people that we never met before

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and turned out to have at least one big thing in common with us

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which was that we'd all gone down the chute at the circus

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at the fun fair and we didn't know why.

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And one thing I noticed was that from each profession

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one person was given to us to be a...

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Well, not a skeptic, but to have woken up.

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So from tennis...

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Actually, I don't know about tennis because you had sort of packed...

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Novak Djokovic.

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Novak Djokovic.

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But I'm not sure about them, but definitely from the realm of football

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you had...

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What's his face?

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My brain's called blank.

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Which realm?

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Football.

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Matt LaTisier.

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There you are.

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You had Matt LaTisier.

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I mean, I didn't know anything about football,

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but I understand from people who know about football

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that Matt LaTisier was really good.

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He wasn't just a kind of a semi-shit player

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that we now know of down the rabbit hole

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because he's down the rabbit hole.

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He was really, really good.

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So...

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And then...

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What else to be...

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Well, we had me from the mainstream media.

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I don't think anyone else really from the...

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Certainly not from the...

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We might have some from the tabloid end,

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but we didn't have anyone from the kind of

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spectatory telegraphy end.

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So I was that person.

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And so on and on it went.

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We had from the realm of pharma,

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we had Mike Eden.

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And there was you.

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And you...

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What's my realm?

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Well, you were the guy from the BBC kind of lifestyle.

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Lifestyle?

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Well, I call it light documentary.

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Yeah, okay.

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So you were the token guy from the light documentary thing.

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And you must have...

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I mean, like, you must look around now

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and pinch yourself.

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Look at all these light documentary characters

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who used to be your fellow travelers

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and your comrades.

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And now, I bet, do they even talk to you?

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Some of them have blocked me.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I find that I was having this conversation...

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A period we have this conversation with

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my wife and other people.

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The act of blocking,

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for those unfamiliar with it,

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it's an option on X, previously known as Twitter,

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where you can prevent someone from seeing anything

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you put up on that platform.

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And it's called blocking.

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But it's a very personal attack, really,

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because the only person that knows about the block

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is the blocky and the blocker.

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It's not like you can look someone up

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and see who blocks them.

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Or you can't see who a person has blocked

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unless they tell you.

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You know, so the act of someone blocking someone else

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is a very direct attack, mano a mano.

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It's just, I want you to know that I, you know,

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I'm shutting you out.

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But yes, I mean, people that I previously worked with,

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you definitely have blocked me, which I find...

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And without exceptions, people that I wasn't following anyway.

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It's very funny.

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But yes, I...

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That's been a big thing for me, that I, at the time,

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when it all started to happen for me six years ago,

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I genuinely waited and assumed that some of the silverbacks

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would step forth and do what had to be done.

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Especially people who had, over the years,

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if not decades, cultivated a reputation as sort of a maverick,

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a bit of a rebel, you know, a bit sweary,

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a bit ready to get up in the face of the man.

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Maybe there were people for whom that was part of their shtick.

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Did you think about Gordon Ramsay?

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Well, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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I just, yeah, but not, I mean, I'm not singling him out,

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but yeah, he would be a perfect example.

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But, and then, you know, obviously now he's advertising,

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I can't believe it's not butter.

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And I'm, you know, like the rest of us,

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I'm like the rest of us out there as, you know,

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as a raving anti-semi, whatever, anti-vaxxer,

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all the rest of it.

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And I, but at the time I thought,

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these people will step forward.

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People with clout, people with reputations

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that give them the clout to say,

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hold on a minute, this is out of hand.

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This is out of order.

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We cannot, as a civilization, go down these roads.

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And they didn't.

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And I've used analogy before.

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For me, it was a bit like, you know,

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the classic airplane disaster movie

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where the pilot's dead, the co-pilot's dead,

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and the stewardesses are, you know, are incapacitated

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and some, you know, you know,

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lug from the cabin, from coach has to come forward

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and take control of the plane

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because there's nobody else.

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And I still can't believe that after all this time,

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I'll let you say the people that were my fellow travelers,

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many of them far more, you know,

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far, far bigger names than me still are,

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are still there, you know.

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And increasingly, I noticed that, you know,

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the faces on television, you know,

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they so remind me of death becomes a, you know,

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these increasingly desiccated, superannuated people

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that are still doing variations

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on the theme that they were doing all those years ago.

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And I find it tragic.

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I think we're surrept, the people that so many,

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in Hollywood, in politics, in various professions,

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all these people, and I find them

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almost without exception, tragic, you know, jokes.

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Except, I mean, I share your feelings

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about the disappointment, let's say,

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about the failure of people in our realm.

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Who should have done what we did and didn't.

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But at the same time, you must have come across

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the theory that nobody in the realm of entertainment

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achieves any level of prominence

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without having pre-sold their soul.

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That it's part of the deal.

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Yes, I'm certainly aware of that.

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I'm certainly aware that there are, you know,

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deals struck with the devil, so to speak.

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I mean, I also will acknowledge openly

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that I'm still routinely daily

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dismissed as controlled opposition myself

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because there is a purity test out there

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that I don't think anyone can pass.

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You know, everyone is somebody's shill.

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Everyone is somebody's, you know, soulless grifter.

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You know, so I ignore, I suppose,

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because you just have to assert the amount

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on a constant basis of, yeah, yeah,

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he's sold out to whoever.

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And you can't, it's like I say,

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it's a purity test that's unpassable.

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I agree for a certain,

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because I mean, after all,

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we're all to a greater or lesser extent

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batshit crazy tinfoil hat loons.

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So inevitably in that realm,

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you're going to get the kind of people

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who react, who treat you in the way that they do.

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I get this as well.

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There is a certain, I'd say we're probably

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talking about less than 1%.

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We may be talking about even 0.01%

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of the awake people out there.

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And those people think

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Dellingpole, Oxford, mainstream media,

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former friends of prime ministers,

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MI5 at the very least,

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probably possibly lower tier Illuminati.

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And they will never think otherwise.

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I've even had people do analyses

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of my face shape

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and they've decided that I'm actually female

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or something, yeah.

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Interesting.

19:00.190 --> 19:02.650
But I've seen that happening with you as well,

19:02.790 --> 19:06.230
that the purity testing thing going on,

19:06.570 --> 19:09.410
that anyone who achieved any prominence in the BBC,

19:09.630 --> 19:11.310
and you did, I mean, you were a name.

19:12.030 --> 19:14.210
People can still write to you, can't they?

19:14.550 --> 19:18.930
Yes, I was saying, I was middle ranking.

19:20.190 --> 19:22.510
You know, I was never premiership.

19:22.870 --> 19:24.790
I had to watch football either,

19:24.810 --> 19:26.350
but I know what the premiership is.

19:27.150 --> 19:29.770
I was a middle manager.

19:30.890 --> 19:38.470
You know, I was never, you know, on contract.

19:38.470 --> 19:41.290
I was never employed directly by anyone.

19:41.830 --> 19:43.230
I was always self-employed,

19:43.250 --> 19:44.510
and I just used to be hanging about,

19:44.630 --> 19:46.630
waiting on the phone to ring in the classic way.

19:47.290 --> 19:49.710
You know, from my agent to say,

19:49.790 --> 19:51.750
oh, such and such a production

19:51.750 --> 19:53.090
looks like it's going ahead

19:53.090 --> 19:54.350
and you're the named presenter

19:54.350 --> 19:57.210
that they're prepared to entertain for it.

19:57.770 --> 20:00.110
You know, my agent dropped me as well.

20:01.250 --> 20:02.730
Do you think it was,

20:03.110 --> 20:06.790
because you've got that kind of attractive regional accent,

20:06.790 --> 20:08.830
so that must have been part of the pale?

20:09.050 --> 20:12.050
He's not, he hasn't got any...

20:12.050 --> 20:15.830
I used to think, look, before this happened, James,

20:15.970 --> 20:19.190
and I'm not, this is not,

20:19.390 --> 20:21.550
I'm not mining for pity here at all,

20:21.550 --> 20:24.190
because I don't want, I don't feel the need,

20:24.850 --> 20:26.250
but way before, I mean,

20:26.930 --> 20:29.150
right from the beginning of being on television,

20:29.450 --> 20:32.890
I didn't fit within the establishment.

20:33.850 --> 20:35.370
I mean, I became, like I say,

20:35.370 --> 20:36.210
a lower ranking.

20:37.490 --> 20:41.510
I kind of had a, I had an always temporary pass.

20:42.650 --> 20:45.330
You know, I never had my own set of keys.

20:46.110 --> 20:50.010
I was always just had to be accompanied by a member to get in.

20:51.290 --> 20:52.410
But I never fitted,

20:52.630 --> 20:54.290
because, and you say I had a regional accent.

20:55.270 --> 20:57.210
You know, I was never, you know,

20:57.290 --> 21:01.270
you said yourself that you're Oxford and whatever.

21:01.270 --> 21:05.610
I was, I am council house, state school,

21:06.410 --> 21:10.510
Scottish, you know, no letters after my name,

21:10.510 --> 21:13.390
apart from an, you know, an MA from Glasgow Uni,

21:13.770 --> 21:14.730
a thousand years ago,

21:15.270 --> 21:17.850
not an expert, not a lecturer,

21:18.310 --> 21:19.870
no academic credentials.

21:21.810 --> 21:25.390
And long before I got exiled to the purda

21:25.810 --> 21:27.930
of the perdition that I've been put in

21:27.930 --> 21:30.450
by the intelligentsia now,

21:30.450 --> 21:32.110
I never fitted anyway.

21:32.990 --> 21:36.330
I was, I did, I mean, I had as many projects get bended.

21:36.730 --> 21:39.070
I mean, I was on the same, you know, daily rate

21:39.070 --> 21:42.950
from the BBC in 2016 or something

21:42.950 --> 21:44.470
when I did my last gig for them,

21:44.550 --> 21:47.510
as I had been on when I did my very first gig for them

21:47.510 --> 21:48.490
all those years before.

21:49.230 --> 21:51.970
You know, I was just on a day rate that never changed.

21:53.130 --> 21:54.550
I was in, but not in.

21:55.090 --> 21:59.770
I was, I was, I was, I was just hovering on the fringes

22:00.630 --> 22:03.530
and always ready to be, you know, evicted.

22:05.470 --> 22:08.030
Anyway, I think, I think I failed, I failed,

22:08.150 --> 22:10.950
I failed the test anyway long before I came out as a,

22:10.950 --> 22:14.610
you know, a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist,

22:15.450 --> 22:16.170
granny killer.

22:16.390 --> 22:19.070
I mean, I was already not one of us.

22:19.930 --> 22:20.330
Okay.

22:21.610 --> 22:25.490
But even though you were not one of, one of them really,

22:27.190 --> 22:29.550
you at least were on the inside for a while.

22:30.070 --> 22:31.090
And have you ever wondered?

22:31.410 --> 22:32.870
Like I said, accompanied by a member.

22:33.630 --> 22:35.770
You know, I couldn't get through doors on my own.

22:36.830 --> 22:37.230
Right.

22:37.610 --> 22:39.550
But you, but you saw things when you were

22:39.550 --> 22:41.050
accompanied by a member, you do see things

22:41.050 --> 22:42.110
when you're accompanied by a member.

22:42.510 --> 22:46.830
And I'm just wondering, because I'm, I'm often

22:46.830 --> 22:51.710
looking back on my, I mean, I was like, what, 25 years,

22:52.410 --> 22:57.330
30 years in the mainstream media at sort of, you know,

22:57.350 --> 22:58.650
successful columnist level.

23:00.370 --> 23:05.290
And I never noticed at the time that there was anything

23:05.290 --> 23:09.570
rum about the industry that I was operating in.

23:09.670 --> 23:11.510
You know, if somebody had said to me at the time,

23:11.890 --> 23:15.870
you do realize that you're producing propaganda for the,

23:15.870 --> 23:22.630
for this predator class, which, which wants to turn you

23:22.630 --> 23:27.030
and people like you into slaves or to kill you,

23:27.470 --> 23:28.750
have no respect for you.

23:28.770 --> 23:29.490
They hate you.

23:29.810 --> 23:31.690
They like you're part of a lie machine.

23:32.510 --> 23:34.210
People told me that at the time I'd gone,

23:34.290 --> 23:37.790
you're just like a nutcase can spirit spirit weirdo.

23:38.090 --> 23:43.170
And now I'm looking back, thinking about what did I miss?

23:43.710 --> 23:46.090
Was I maybe given clues at the time and stuff?

23:46.790 --> 23:48.390
And anyway, I was wondering whether, whether you ever went

23:48.390 --> 23:50.910
through this process and thought back.

23:51.470 --> 23:53.710
Yeah, I never suspected anything either.

23:54.030 --> 23:56.670
I mean, I didn't, I was oblivious.

23:56.990 --> 23:58.430
I've said this to the blue in the face.

23:58.630 --> 24:00.210
I didn't catch on right away either.

24:00.450 --> 24:02.850
You know, I wouldn't, I was, I was panicked into wanting

24:02.850 --> 24:04.690
my kids out of school and back in the house

24:04.690 --> 24:07.150
because I thought the black death was coming.

24:07.330 --> 24:10.950
I mean, I, I was, I wasn't far, you know,

24:10.950 --> 24:13.450
first out of the traps by any stretch of the imagination.

24:14.090 --> 24:17.230
But at the time I was doing it, no, it never, it never occurred

24:17.230 --> 24:19.670
to me because I was, you know, I was preoccupied

24:19.670 --> 24:20.550
with what I was doing.

24:20.730 --> 24:22.750
And as a lot of self-employed people are,

24:22.790 --> 24:24.490
I was always just looking for the next gig.

24:25.170 --> 24:28.330
And I was desperate enough, you know,

24:28.370 --> 24:30.950
for finances all the time that I wasn't bothering

24:30.950 --> 24:33.210
to second guess whether I thought something was,

24:34.030 --> 24:38.070
you know, for the greater good of the species.

24:38.970 --> 24:42.470
Far less given much house room to the notion

24:42.470 --> 24:45.710
that I was pushing propaganda, which, you know,

24:45.750 --> 24:49.450
I now see that I was a, you know, I was a willing,

24:49.690 --> 24:52.930
a willing dupe or whatever.

24:53.270 --> 24:55.710
I just didn't, I always, I've said over and over,

24:55.790 --> 24:58.090
I thought that they were out there really

24:58.090 --> 25:00.430
with our best interests at heart.

25:01.530 --> 25:03.310
I didn't, it never occurred to me

25:03.310 --> 25:04.650
that they might be trying to kill me

25:04.650 --> 25:06.910
or sterilize my children.

25:07.150 --> 25:08.130
It never occurred to me.

25:09.490 --> 25:12.130
That, I think that's why, in a way,

25:12.930 --> 25:18.010
you and I are, have a useful role to play

25:18.790 --> 25:22.550
in that we can, because there's a lot of,

25:23.190 --> 25:25.910
a lot of people listening to this,

25:27.030 --> 25:29.330
who are going to be, who are going to, yeah, loads.

25:30.090 --> 25:32.390
Neil, you have no idea how big I am.

25:34.230 --> 25:37.870
Actually, you've no idea how big I would be

25:37.870 --> 25:39.770
if I weren't so heavily suppressed.

25:40.090 --> 25:41.210
I think that's certainly true.

25:41.470 --> 25:42.970
I think I do quite well.

25:43.210 --> 25:45.970
You probably do alright too, but we'll never get there

25:45.970 --> 25:46.850
because we're suppressed.

25:47.490 --> 25:52.330
But the thing I'm, I'm often trying to explain to people.

25:52.650 --> 25:55.350
I was on this, I was doing this guy's podcast the other day

25:55.350 --> 26:00.930
and he was full of hatred, hatred for Douglas Murray

26:00.930 --> 26:03.370
and he wanted to tell me how much he hated Douglas Murray

26:03.930 --> 26:07.690
and he wanted to tell me how horrible Toby Young was.

26:07.790 --> 26:09.590
He was really angry about Toby Young.

26:10.030 --> 26:11.950
Do you, do you, do you come across Toby Young?

26:12.490 --> 26:13.830
I do, I do.

26:14.370 --> 26:17.650
I used to, I think across these, I did, I did.

26:17.870 --> 26:23.590
Let me think, I was on the Mark Stein show.

26:23.710 --> 26:24.610
Yeah, yeah.

26:25.830 --> 26:29.290
When, when he, indeed when he was with GB News.

26:30.610 --> 26:31.530
Right, again.

26:31.530 --> 26:34.150
In that kind of, you know, self-cannibalizing thing

26:34.150 --> 26:36.670
we used to be each other's guests to some extent

26:37.390 --> 26:40.750
and I was a guest on Mark's show when he was still with the,

26:40.890 --> 26:42.250
with the show.

26:43.030 --> 26:43.150
Yeah.

26:43.150 --> 26:46.610
And the other, or at least one of the other guests on the same night

26:46.610 --> 26:49.850
was Toby Young and Mark took us both out to dinner.

26:50.570 --> 26:51.190
Oh yeah.

26:51.250 --> 26:51.510
After.

26:51.790 --> 26:54.990
So I spent, you know, a very pleasant couple of hours

26:54.990 --> 26:56.030
in their company.

26:56.650 --> 26:56.770
Yeah.

26:56.990 --> 26:57.570
Chatted to Toby.

26:57.570 --> 27:00.570
And apart from that, and then when I did get, well,

27:01.350 --> 27:03.530
when I was having some of my early troubles with getting

27:04.230 --> 27:06.590
cancelled and accused of this, that and the other,

27:06.950 --> 27:09.870
you know, I was, I had joined the, what's that?

27:10.450 --> 27:11.290
Free speech union.

27:11.350 --> 27:12.030
Free speech union.

27:12.530 --> 27:15.350
And so I was able to, I was able to cash in my chips

27:16.470 --> 27:17.550
and get help.

27:17.810 --> 27:20.450
And I have to say Toby was extremely helpful

27:20.450 --> 27:22.590
and was a sympathetic ear.

27:24.890 --> 27:25.770
Yes, exactly.

27:25.770 --> 27:28.670
So you make my point for me.

27:28.890 --> 27:31.270
And I was, I was, I was trying to explain to this,

27:31.270 --> 27:32.310
this angry man.

27:34.520 --> 27:39.810
If you think that this world is all about people

27:40.670 --> 27:43.810
consciously selling their souls and consciously lying

27:43.810 --> 27:46.310
to their audiences and being,

27:46.530 --> 27:50.050
being deliberately, willfully evil.

27:50.690 --> 27:55.190
You misunderstand the mechanism by which these people

27:55.990 --> 27:58.650
consolidate their power and rule over us.

27:59.350 --> 28:02.450
If Toby Young is a good example of this,

28:02.550 --> 28:06.110
because I mean, I was, we were university contemporaries

28:06.110 --> 28:08.690
and we used to do a podcast together

28:08.690 --> 28:10.610
and we were mates.

28:10.850 --> 28:13.550
I mean, you know, we probably meet maybe once a year,

28:13.790 --> 28:17.890
possibly by accident and have a drink and a chat.

28:19.410 --> 28:23.550
And Toby Young is, even though I think he is

28:23.550 --> 28:25.950
basically shilling for Israel, for example,

28:26.390 --> 28:29.550
and shilling for all manner of causes

28:30.330 --> 28:33.790
which I think are morally suspect.

28:35.130 --> 28:37.490
I don't think Toby is even aware of this.

28:37.710 --> 28:40.510
I just think he's just a guy trying to make a buck,

28:41.050 --> 28:44.010
trying to be, he likes being in the House of Lords.

28:44.510 --> 28:46.590
He likes being able to afford expensive wine,

28:46.650 --> 28:48.350
as he's written about in the spectator.

28:48.830 --> 28:51.790
He thinks Israel is good because it's,

28:51.790 --> 28:56.430
it's kind of like a bastion of Western civilization

28:56.430 --> 29:01.310
in the Middle East and the Israelis are just like us,

29:01.490 --> 29:03.810
except they're Jewish and so on.

29:04.010 --> 29:06.470
He's never got beyond that stage.

29:06.810 --> 29:08.590
Well, you'll have seen, well,

29:08.730 --> 29:11.870
either you have or you haven't that clip of Noam Chomsky.

29:12.310 --> 29:15.090
Now, open brackets, you know,

29:15.190 --> 29:17.730
we've all had the opportunity to revisit our opinions

29:17.730 --> 29:19.410
about Noam Chomsky closed brackets.

29:19.410 --> 29:24.090
But nonetheless, he skewered Andrew Maher very effectively.

29:24.590 --> 29:25.050
You did?

29:26.090 --> 29:26.990
I can't remember what it was about.

29:27.490 --> 29:31.610
We're, you know, he's suggesting that,

29:31.950 --> 29:33.450
well, it's the propaganda machine

29:33.450 --> 29:37.510
and Andrew Maher, you know, bristles and says,

29:37.590 --> 29:40.810
well, you know, I don't have anyone telling me what to say.

29:41.430 --> 29:44.690
And Noam Chomsky in that kind of gotcha moment says,

29:44.830 --> 29:46.990
well, yes, but you wouldn't be sitting where you are

29:46.990 --> 29:49.430
unless you had been filtered through the system

29:49.430 --> 29:51.130
and you were saying what you say anyway

29:51.130 --> 29:53.870
without any need for coercion on our part,

29:53.890 --> 29:57.230
because the bigger project has worked on you

29:57.230 --> 30:00.670
and you now, without us having to put your arm up your back

30:00.670 --> 30:02.730
or threaten your children, you're doing it

30:02.730 --> 30:03.650
because you believe it.

30:03.850 --> 30:06.710
That's why you occupy the seat that you do, Andrew.

30:06.890 --> 30:09.170
And, you know, there's a momentary, you know,

30:09.970 --> 30:11.830
you can see it on Andrew Maher's face

30:11.830 --> 30:15.650
where he certainly seems to get Noam Chomsky's point.

30:16.830 --> 30:17.310
Yeah.

30:18.890 --> 30:23.310
Yeah, it does add an extra layer of nuance to it, doesn't it?

30:23.550 --> 30:26.970
The fact that we know that Chomsky

30:26.970 --> 30:29.430
was off on regular duels to Epstein Island.

30:29.990 --> 30:33.010
Nevertheless, just because you're an Epstein habituator

30:33.010 --> 30:35.730
doesn't mean to say that you can't occasionally

30:35.730 --> 30:38.130
make sensible points about how the world works.

30:38.130 --> 30:41.010
Well, even a stop clock tells the right time twice a day.

30:41.010 --> 30:41.170
Yeah.

30:41.670 --> 30:41.990
Yeah.

30:41.990 --> 30:46.790
But I mean, so you said you're still not,

30:47.270 --> 30:52.710
I kind of imagine you might have become a Christian by now

30:52.710 --> 30:54.050
just because a lot of us have.

30:55.010 --> 30:58.370
I'm not, I have no, that's a subject in which

30:58.370 --> 31:00.830
I have boundless, limitless interest,

31:01.210 --> 31:03.690
but I'm not, if it's an official religion,

31:04.530 --> 31:05.630
it's not for me.

31:06.730 --> 31:10.870
I believe, I think the Christianity as it's offered

31:11.550 --> 31:15.210
in terms of whether it be from Rome

31:15.210 --> 31:17.670
or whether it be the reformed church,

31:17.850 --> 31:20.450
whether it be church of Scotland, whether it be whatever,

31:21.150 --> 31:24.970
I think Christianity is the perpetuation of the Roman Imperium.

31:25.490 --> 31:29.250
The one thing went into the shadows

31:29.250 --> 31:32.930
and the other thing emerged into the light.

31:33.370 --> 31:37.250
So Christianity was the perpetuation of the Roman Imperium.

31:37.250 --> 31:40.050
But there's nothing, but all,

31:40.190 --> 31:41.790
I think all the organized religions,

31:42.010 --> 31:45.310
be it Buddhism or Hinduism or Islam or Judaism

31:45.310 --> 31:50.650
or Seventh Day Adventists or Scientologists, Mormons,

31:51.310 --> 31:54.550
whatever, Methodists, I think these are all just,

31:54.950 --> 31:56.510
in that area, I mean in that terrain,

31:56.930 --> 32:02.870
I'm firmly of the David Ike constituency where he says,

32:03.670 --> 32:04.370
so I'll just attract.

32:04.370 --> 32:07.810
But I don't, so I'm not, so I have faith.

32:08.430 --> 32:11.870
I have faith and I do as much as I can

32:11.870 --> 32:13.490
in terms of the reading that I do

32:13.490 --> 32:15.350
and the path that I follow.

32:16.710 --> 32:18.370
I know there's truth out there,

32:18.930 --> 32:21.950
but in as far as it goes, I think there's a,

32:22.070 --> 32:23.390
I think the most, well,

32:24.450 --> 32:28.690
possibly the most profound lines in the Bible

32:30.950 --> 32:35.290
are the opening of John's Gospel.

32:36.430 --> 32:38.710
The light shines in the darkness

32:38.710 --> 32:40.470
and the darkness comprehended it not,

32:40.750 --> 32:42.330
but which I interpret as meaning

32:42.330 --> 32:46.290
whenever the truth appears as a kindled flame,

32:47.170 --> 32:48.930
the darkness seeks to smother it.

32:49.850 --> 32:52.510
And I think the truth has manifested

32:52.510 --> 32:53.950
in what I would regard, let's say,

32:54.070 --> 32:57.190
as the actual Jesus message

32:57.790 --> 33:02.550
has been utterly traduced over the last 2,000 years

33:02.550 --> 33:04.450
to the point where it's just become another noose

33:04.450 --> 33:05.930
to put around people's necks.

33:05.990 --> 33:08.410
But that does not in any way impugn

33:08.410 --> 33:10.730
what Jesus said.

33:11.610 --> 33:13.690
It's just that it's very hard to find out what he did say.

33:14.570 --> 33:16.730
I suppose when I was asked,

33:16.850 --> 33:18.850
when I said whether you become a Christian or not,

33:18.970 --> 33:20.990
I wasn't necessarily saying

33:21.750 --> 33:26.190
I had expected Neil to become Orthodox

33:26.190 --> 33:31.350
or Catholic or Baptist or whatever.

33:31.690 --> 33:34.010
I possibly jumped down your throat a bit there, James.

33:34.810 --> 33:36.210
Well, no, not particularly.

33:36.750 --> 33:39.570
I actually wondered, well, I found it a sort of

33:39.570 --> 33:40.730
an unhelpful digression

33:40.730 --> 33:42.910
because it stopped me,

33:43.610 --> 33:46.090
or delayed me from reaching the point

33:46.090 --> 33:48.630
I was trying to make.

33:50.210 --> 33:52.310
But by the way, do you believe

33:52.310 --> 33:54.470
Jesus was the Son of God or not?

33:54.470 --> 34:02.760
Well, only in as much as from what I gather,

34:03.340 --> 34:05.180
he only said that we all are.

34:07.940 --> 34:09.860
Sam 82 and all of that,

34:10.080 --> 34:12.040
you are all sons and daughters of the Most High.

34:12.800 --> 34:15.480
I think that's what I mean about what he actually said

34:15.480 --> 34:18.300
is hard to discern in amongst the redacted

34:18.300 --> 34:20.100
and rewritten and transliterated

34:20.100 --> 34:23.460
and interpolated pages

34:23.460 --> 34:26.520
that we see bound within the edifice

34:26.520 --> 34:27.720
called the Holy Bible.

34:28.420 --> 34:31.880
But I mean, I don't think even, I don't think, you know,

34:33.180 --> 34:36.060
it's almost, it's a difficult question to answer

34:36.060 --> 34:38.980
because I don't think it's a question that he ever asked himself.

34:42.360 --> 34:42.760
Right.

34:43.320 --> 34:44.600
He may or may not have been,

34:44.800 --> 34:47.740
but he didn't as far as I am concerned,

34:48.880 --> 34:50.600
explicitly make a great distinction

34:50.600 --> 34:52.480
between himself and everybody else.

34:53.200 --> 34:53.600
Right.

34:53.960 --> 34:55.580
Now, I wasn't really trying to put you on the spot.

34:55.580 --> 34:59.760
I was just trying to see, trying to place you on the kind of,

34:59.920 --> 35:02.460
on the spectrum.

35:03.720 --> 35:07.040
And I believe in the transcendent absolute,

35:08.440 --> 35:13.280
I believe in Sunyata for the, you know, for the Buddhists.

35:13.820 --> 35:16.200
And I don't think there's any distinction between that

35:16.200 --> 35:20.280
and the, you know, the apophatic message

35:20.280 --> 35:23.740
that, you know, Pseudo Dionysius the Areopagite

35:24.420 --> 35:25.620
had to offer.

35:26.740 --> 35:28.180
I don't know what apophatic means.

35:29.120 --> 35:29.680
What does that mean?

35:29.720 --> 35:35.480
Well, it's an acceptance that there's absolutely nothing

35:35.480 --> 35:38.700
that we can say or know about the divine

35:39.380 --> 35:42.060
because it doesn't, there's no words you can use.

35:42.280 --> 35:42.800
It's ineffable.

35:43.720 --> 35:44.040
Right.

35:44.080 --> 35:46.280
So there's the via...

35:48.740 --> 35:52.360
Global warming is a massive con.

35:52.760 --> 35:55.160
There was no evidence whatsoever

35:55.160 --> 35:59.420
that man-made climate change is a problem

35:59.420 --> 36:00.980
that is going to kill us,

36:01.240 --> 36:02.860
that we need to amend our lifestyle

36:02.860 --> 36:04.180
in order to deal with it.

36:04.220 --> 36:05.480
It's a non-existent problem.

36:05.780 --> 36:08.500
But how do you explain this stuff

36:08.500 --> 36:10.920
to your normie friends?

36:11.200 --> 36:14.620
Well, I've just brought out the revised edition

36:14.620 --> 36:18.440
of my 2012 classic book Watermelons

36:18.440 --> 36:21.540
which captures the story of how

36:21.540 --> 36:25.240
some really nasty people decided to invent

36:25.240 --> 36:27.060
the global warming scare

36:27.400 --> 36:29.580
in order to fleece you,

36:29.940 --> 36:31.260
to take away your freedoms,

36:31.580 --> 36:32.720
to take away your land.

36:33.620 --> 36:34.840
It's a shocking story.

36:35.480 --> 36:38.360
I wrote it, as I say, in 2011 actually,

36:38.540 --> 36:40.900
the first edition came out.

36:40.900 --> 36:44.380
And it's a snapshot of a particular era.

36:45.020 --> 36:49.560
The era when the people behind the climate change scan

36:49.560 --> 36:51.600
got caught red-handed,

36:51.940 --> 36:53.320
tinkering with the data,

36:53.740 --> 36:55.120
torturing till it screamed

36:55.120 --> 36:59.020
in a scandal that I helped christen Climategate.

36:59.480 --> 37:00.920
So I give you the background

37:00.920 --> 37:03.420
to the skull-juggery that went on

37:03.420 --> 37:05.120
in these seats of learning

37:05.120 --> 37:07.860
where these supposed experts were informing us

37:07.860 --> 37:08.900
we've got to act now.

37:09.520 --> 37:11.700
I rumbled their scan.

37:12.360 --> 37:13.640
I then asked the question,

37:13.780 --> 37:14.700
okay, if it is a scan,

37:15.400 --> 37:17.980
who's doing this and why?

37:18.620 --> 37:19.480
It's a good story.

37:20.220 --> 37:23.560
I've kept the original book pretty much as is,

37:23.620 --> 37:26.680
but I've written two new chapters,

37:26.960 --> 37:28.920
one at the beginning and one at the end,

37:29.340 --> 37:32.940
explaining how it's even worse than we thought.

37:33.640 --> 37:35.400
I think it still stands up.

37:35.540 --> 37:36.820
I think it's a good read.

37:36.820 --> 37:38.860
Obviously I'm biased, but I'd recommend it.

37:39.220 --> 37:40.220
You can buy it from

37:41.140 --> 37:42.680
jamesdellingpole.co.uk

37:42.680 --> 37:44.500
forward slash shop.

37:45.020 --> 37:45.720
You'll probably find that,

37:45.780 --> 37:47.580
just go to my website and look for it,

37:47.680 --> 37:49.600
jamesdellingpole.co.uk

37:49.600 --> 37:53.440
and I hope it helps keep you informed

37:53.440 --> 37:55.540
and gives you the material you need

37:55.540 --> 37:57.700
to bring round all those

37:57.700 --> 38:00.040
people who are still persuaded that

38:00.040 --> 38:01.700
oh, it's a disaster,

38:01.940 --> 38:04.200
we must amend our ways and appease the gods,

38:04.200 --> 38:07.080
there we go, it's a scan.

38:12.960 --> 38:13.360
Right.

38:13.880 --> 38:15.160
He may or may not have been,

38:15.380 --> 38:18.320
but he didn't as far as I am concerned,

38:19.460 --> 38:21.180
explicitly make a great distinction

38:21.180 --> 38:23.060
between himself and everybody else.

38:23.840 --> 38:24.160
Right.

38:24.560 --> 38:26.140
Now, I wasn't really trying to put you on the spot,

38:26.220 --> 38:26.960
I was just trying to see,

38:27.360 --> 38:30.300
trying to place you on the kind of,

38:30.820 --> 38:33.060
on the spectrum.

38:34.440 --> 38:37.580
I believe in the transcendent absolute

38:38.880 --> 38:40.000
I believe in

38:41.000 --> 38:42.180
Sunyata for the,

38:42.320 --> 38:43.840
you know, for the Buddhists

38:44.580 --> 38:46.760
and I don't think there's any distinction between that

38:46.760 --> 38:47.220
and the,

38:47.220 --> 38:48.520
and the,

38:48.520 --> 38:51.220
you know, the apophatic message that,

38:51.320 --> 38:51.740
you know,

38:52.540 --> 38:54.320
pseudo-dionysius the areopagite

38:55.060 --> 38:56.200
had to offer.

38:57.140 --> 38:58.760
I don't know what apophatic means.

38:59.500 --> 39:00.660
What does that mean?

39:00.660 --> 39:00.780
Well,

39:02.940 --> 39:04.980
it's an acceptance that

39:04.980 --> 39:06.060
there's absolutely nothing

39:06.060 --> 39:09.300
that we can say or know about the divine

39:10.020 --> 39:11.360
because it doesn't,

39:11.500 --> 39:12.660
there's no words you can use.

39:12.860 --> 39:13.400
It's ineffable.

39:14.380 --> 39:14.580
Right.

39:14.580 --> 39:17.880
So there's the via negativa

39:17.880 --> 39:20.840
and there's the negative way and the positive way.

39:20.940 --> 39:23.230
There's cataphatic is the alternative to apophatic.

39:24.160 --> 39:26.320
Cataphatic theology as laid out is

39:26.320 --> 39:27.980
the things you can say about God.

39:28.800 --> 39:30.380
He is omniscient.

39:30.600 --> 39:31.720
He is, you know,

39:31.960 --> 39:34.200
but the apophatic line says

39:34.200 --> 39:36.480
you can't say anything about God.

39:36.620 --> 39:37.280
It's not possible.

39:37.460 --> 39:38.540
Words do not describe

39:39.200 --> 39:41.000
and we lack the comprehension

39:41.000 --> 39:44.520
to know anything about God

39:46.120 --> 39:47.240
and Dionysius,

39:47.360 --> 39:50.460
the pseudo-dionysius the areopagite

39:50.800 --> 39:52.840
put all that in some books

39:52.840 --> 39:56.260
that were written probably in the five or six hundreds

39:56.260 --> 39:57.460
and then surfaced in Europe

39:58.060 --> 40:00.640
in the high medieval period

40:00.640 --> 40:04.020
and they affected the thinking of people like

40:04.640 --> 40:06.520
I don't know, you know,

40:09.940 --> 40:12.620
Albertus Magnus and Maester Eckhart

40:12.620 --> 40:14.680
and Thomas Aquinas and so on

40:14.680 --> 40:15.300
and these people.

40:15.620 --> 40:18.780
So I think I'm more inclined towards

40:18.780 --> 40:20.220
and Sunyatta is the same.

40:20.360 --> 40:21.860
I mean, that's that Buddhist idea

40:21.860 --> 40:24.300
that there isn't anything you can say.

40:27.580 --> 40:28.980
Augustine of Hippo said,

40:28.980 --> 40:31.540
you know, someone said to him,

40:31.580 --> 40:34.220
what do you understand about time?

40:34.760 --> 40:35.840
And Augustine said,

40:37.240 --> 40:39.740
I know, but when you ask me, I don't.

40:41.040 --> 40:44.200
Which is a kind of an expression

40:44.200 --> 40:47.060
of the apophatic mind set.

40:49.500 --> 40:50.140
Right.

40:52.160 --> 40:56.520
Well, there's some further reading I've got to do.

40:56.520 --> 40:58.680
Yet another kind of rabbit hole,

40:58.920 --> 41:01.240
an intellectual rabbit hole I've got to explore.

41:01.900 --> 41:04.460
So the only reason I was asking you about

41:04.460 --> 41:06.660
the question question is because

41:08.480 --> 41:12.380
a lot of people who enter the conspiracy realm,

41:15.420 --> 41:18.380
their questions increasingly boil down to

41:18.380 --> 41:23.700
OK, if all this terrible stuff is going on in the world,

41:26.320 --> 41:27.840
why are they doing it?

41:27.980 --> 41:28.660
And who are they?

41:29.160 --> 41:30.720
And who are they?

41:30.900 --> 41:32.880
Who is doing this stuff and why?

41:34.540 --> 41:37.040
And people come up with various theories.

41:37.540 --> 41:41.500
But a lot of us, me, definitely,

41:42.080 --> 41:44.840
come to the conclusion that

41:46.200 --> 41:51.280
the bad guys are either descendants of

41:51.280 --> 41:55.240
or, yes, the descendants of fallen angels

41:55.240 --> 42:00.200
and that their boss is Lucifer, Stroke, Satan.

42:00.400 --> 42:02.760
They seem to be a sort of similar entity

42:02.760 --> 42:07.100
with perhaps different facets of their personalities.

42:07.920 --> 42:12.600
Lucifer is more about the light and the intellect

42:12.600 --> 42:18.140
and Satan is more about darkness and other stuff.

42:18.140 --> 42:23.640
But anyway, if you accept that, as I certainly do,

42:23.980 --> 42:29.620
that Satan is the CEO on Earth by God's permission,

42:31.220 --> 42:34.120
you kind of want to understand how the company operates.

42:35.020 --> 42:38.200
And it seems to me that the company operates

42:38.200 --> 42:40.920
on a need-to-know basis.

42:42.040 --> 42:45.520
So clearly Satan, he knows what's going on

42:45.520 --> 42:47.700
and so do his left-tenants.

42:47.820 --> 42:50.040
I mean, they're just sitting around in their boardrooms.

42:50.220 --> 42:53.740
They're going to the Bilderberg group and stuff like that.

42:54.460 --> 43:01.600
They're in no doubt that their job is to poison,

43:02.420 --> 43:04.560
poison the slave, et cetera, et cetera.

43:04.840 --> 43:05.820
All the things they do.

43:06.540 --> 43:09.760
But then you go further down the pyramid

43:11.380 --> 43:14.000
and people do the bad stuff that they do

43:14.000 --> 43:16.980
because they think stuff like,

43:17.440 --> 43:21.020
well, I want to make my wife happy.

43:21.760 --> 43:23.780
I want a better life for my children.

43:25.340 --> 43:26.880
It's how the game works.

43:27.040 --> 43:28.080
Everyone else is doing it.

43:28.080 --> 43:30.320
It's just what you've got to do to get on.

43:31.200 --> 43:32.960
At that level, people aren't saying,

43:33.560 --> 43:36.340
yeah, well, of course, I love doing evil

43:36.340 --> 43:39.780
because I'm wicked and I've solved my...

43:39.780 --> 43:41.080
It doesn't work like that.

43:41.080 --> 43:45.480
And I think the nature of evil is misunderstood

43:45.480 --> 43:49.580
by a lot of people on our side of the argument.

43:49.780 --> 43:54.360
They point to Tobi or whoever or Netanyahu

43:54.360 --> 43:59.540
and they go, I hate these people because they are baddies.

44:01.540 --> 44:03.480
And it's not as simple as that.

44:03.560 --> 44:06.000
I mean, they are baddies, de facto.

44:06.860 --> 44:11.060
But they're not necessarily aware of it.

44:11.060 --> 44:12.660
I mean, Netanyahu probably.

44:12.780 --> 44:14.740
Most people aren't.

44:15.240 --> 44:16.520
Don't you think it's a bit...

44:16.520 --> 44:19.160
We already touched on some of the explanations for that

44:19.160 --> 44:21.880
when the thing about Andrew Maher

44:21.880 --> 44:25.120
and being skewered by Noam Chomsky.

44:26.580 --> 44:30.060
He thinks he's being Andrew Maher

44:30.700 --> 44:32.240
just to use...

44:32.240 --> 44:35.460
He believes that he's worked the things out for himself

44:35.460 --> 44:37.500
and that he is a critical thinker maybe

44:37.500 --> 44:38.900
and that he's drawn his...

44:38.900 --> 44:41.820
But as Noam Chomsky said, well, no, but you've been selected.

44:42.120 --> 44:43.660
You just don't know you've been selected

44:43.660 --> 44:45.660
but they're quite happy for you to sit in that chair

44:45.660 --> 44:48.800
because you will without prompting say the things that we want said.

44:49.580 --> 44:53.300
And so I think in the kind of people you're talking about,

44:53.500 --> 44:59.640
the kind of middle management factotum figures

44:59.640 --> 45:05.540
that are doing the things that are bad for us,

45:07.700 --> 45:11.080
they probably think they're just doing, like you say,

45:11.480 --> 45:15.040
that they're satisfying the requirements

45:15.040 --> 45:16.580
of their annual performance review,

45:16.760 --> 45:19.200
that they're looking to get a bonus this year

45:20.080 --> 45:23.720
and they think anyway that what they're doing is broadly okay,

45:23.780 --> 45:26.040
but they are certainly not in any way privy

45:26.040 --> 45:29.240
to the details of what's really going on.

45:30.080 --> 45:32.540
And if you go all the way back to the sort of Adam Wieshocht,

45:33.520 --> 45:37.780
the Illuminati, the papers that were whatever came to light

45:37.780 --> 45:43.060
in Bavaria in 1786, two or three years before...

45:43.060 --> 45:44.380
When the guy was struck by lightning.

45:45.120 --> 45:45.540
Ah, yeah.

45:45.980 --> 45:47.600
And that seemed...

45:47.600 --> 45:48.140
How cool is that?

45:49.140 --> 45:50.260
And that seemed to...

45:50.260 --> 45:52.000
Well, it's all a bit...

45:52.640 --> 45:55.260
You do wonder about why these things come to light

45:55.260 --> 45:57.920
when they do and is it organic and spontaneous

45:57.920 --> 45:59.540
or is it...

45:59.540 --> 46:02.640
It's like the man with no name,

46:02.840 --> 46:06.340
the World War II legend of the false plans for D-Day.

46:09.160 --> 46:11.240
The guy fan washed up on a beach.

46:11.600 --> 46:16.400
Yeah, and it sold the Germans the wrong idea ahead of D-Day

46:16.400 --> 46:17.160
and so on.

46:17.700 --> 46:20.320
You don't know why things come to light when they do,

46:20.800 --> 46:23.640
but what I was going to say was the strategy

46:23.640 --> 46:26.540
as laid out by Adam Wieshocht, whoever he was

46:26.540 --> 46:28.500
and whoever his ultimate bosses were,

46:28.580 --> 46:30.060
if he wasn't the ultimate boss,

46:30.140 --> 46:31.960
was that it was a net.

46:32.280 --> 46:33.820
It was a net of conspiracy.

46:34.240 --> 46:38.260
And each person in the net

46:38.260 --> 46:40.740
was only aware of a handful of other people

46:41.500 --> 46:43.700
and they knew that those people were watching them

46:43.700 --> 46:45.420
and reporting on their behavior

46:45.420 --> 46:47.060
in the same way that they were expected

46:47.060 --> 46:49.380
to watch the handful of people around...

46:49.380 --> 46:51.340
And they all reported on each other.

46:51.860 --> 46:52.960
You know, that kind of...

46:52.960 --> 46:55.760
Who guards the guards kind of...

46:55.760 --> 46:58.840
And so, and according to the Wieshocht papers,

46:58.900 --> 47:01.940
it was all about these people were just functionaries.

47:02.500 --> 47:05.220
They were never made privy to the big plan

47:05.760 --> 47:07.440
and they were doing certain things

47:07.440 --> 47:09.680
and it spread into freemasonry

47:09.680 --> 47:12.660
and it co-opted in a sort of a,

47:12.660 --> 47:15.440
you know, a kind of a metastasizing cancer way

47:15.440 --> 47:17.620
into the freemasonry

47:17.620 --> 47:20.500
and it took over that because it was structured

47:20.500 --> 47:21.420
in much the same way.

47:21.520 --> 47:23.820
I mean, your average freemason attending the lodge

47:23.820 --> 47:28.120
every month or whatever is utterly unaware of anything

47:28.120 --> 47:30.900
other than what they're made aware of.

47:31.300 --> 47:33.620
Like you say, that's a long ramble

47:33.620 --> 47:35.060
but I'm basically agreeing with you

47:35.060 --> 47:38.140
and saying that these people that we get invited to look at,

47:38.240 --> 47:42.740
be it Boris Johnson or Benjamin Netanyahu or anything,

47:43.220 --> 47:44.320
they're doing what they're doing

47:44.320 --> 47:47.760
and I think at some level they think that, you know,

47:49.920 --> 47:51.500
it's what they're on earth to do

47:51.500 --> 47:56.940
but they don't necessarily privy to the ultimate agenda.

47:57.680 --> 48:00.220
But, so this is where it gets interesting.

48:01.420 --> 48:04.060
Clearly on the sort of grunt level,

48:04.480 --> 48:06.640
on Toby Young level they don't know.

48:07.800 --> 48:09.880
And you talk about being kind of,

48:09.900 --> 48:11.560
what was the phrase you used to describe your position

48:11.560 --> 48:13.260
at the BBC, sort of middle tier?

48:14.000 --> 48:14.840
You were telling me a leak.

48:14.900 --> 48:17.620
I was second division at best.

48:17.620 --> 48:22.440
But when you get to surely Gary Linnaker,

48:23.200 --> 48:26.040
David Attenborough level at the BBC

48:26.040 --> 48:28.440
or Jimmy Savile level, let's say.

48:28.940 --> 48:29.820
To be naughty.

48:30.580 --> 48:32.340
What an unlikely triumvirate.

48:33.580 --> 48:35.180
Actually, yeah.

48:36.020 --> 48:39.280
It would be very tough to decide who'd be first out of the balloon.

48:39.580 --> 48:42.440
Yeah, Jimmy Savile, Gary Linnaker and who was your other one?

48:42.820 --> 48:43.580
David Attenborough.

48:43.800 --> 48:44.800
Yeah, walk into a bar.

48:44.800 --> 48:47.820
I mean, it's like the start of the unlikely.

48:48.600 --> 48:50.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

48:52.540 --> 48:58.660
But the BBC, I mean, I shared your naivety about the BBC

48:58.660 --> 49:05.960
as I demonstrated by agreeing to have a BBC horizon crew

49:05.960 --> 49:09.960
round to my house and they completely did me over.

49:10.360 --> 49:12.140
Did they? I don't know anything about that.

49:12.260 --> 49:14.400
Oh, awful. Absolutely awful.

49:14.400 --> 49:16.700
A guy called...

49:16.700 --> 49:19.740
You see, I was so, so naive, so innocent.

49:20.100 --> 49:21.400
People think...

49:22.000 --> 49:22.460
How long ago?

49:24.520 --> 49:25.080
Whoa.

49:26.640 --> 49:28.400
This would have been about...

49:32.980 --> 49:33.540
2010.

49:35.120 --> 49:36.060
Oh, goodness me.

49:36.940 --> 49:38.440
You were just a cowboy then.

49:39.100 --> 49:40.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was so innocent.

49:41.120 --> 49:42.160
I was so innocent.

49:42.160 --> 49:46.340
I thought the BBC was just kind of misguided rather than malign.

49:47.080 --> 49:49.420
Malign by design, which I now know it to be.

49:51.140 --> 49:54.360
And I wouldn't break bread at all with the BBC.

49:54.820 --> 49:56.060
There was another incident.

49:56.480 --> 49:58.540
I was very, very...

49:58.540 --> 50:00.500
I was very good-natured about it

50:00.500 --> 50:06.860
because it was a bit like when the husband has an affair

50:06.860 --> 50:09.160
and the wife blames herself and forgives the husband.

50:09.440 --> 50:10.180
It was a bit like that.

50:11.040 --> 50:17.540
There was an occasion where Andrew Neil stitched me up

50:17.540 --> 50:20.680
on a sort of a late-night BBC politics program.

50:22.460 --> 50:24.060
And again, I was...

50:24.060 --> 50:26.560
He was chairman of the spectator at the time,

50:26.640 --> 50:28.740
and I wrote for the spectator.

50:28.820 --> 50:29.900
I still write for the spectator.

50:30.320 --> 50:32.200
So obviously it was important to me

50:32.200 --> 50:35.340
that I shouldn't fall out of his favour.

50:36.100 --> 50:40.840
But I genuinely sort of thought at the time it was my fault.

50:41.040 --> 50:43.540
But the other occasion was much worse,

50:43.760 --> 50:48.060
which was when Paul Nurse, who was the head of the Royal Society,

50:49.140 --> 50:54.400
a Nobel Prize-winning cancer specialist.

50:54.640 --> 50:55.740
I mean, all these things,

50:55.920 --> 50:58.120
which now I realise are signs that he was evil,

50:58.980 --> 51:01.320
at the time I thought were badges of distinction.

51:02.000 --> 51:04.380
Yeah, Royal Society, horribly compromised.

51:04.380 --> 51:06.900
Cancer, a Rockefeller racket,

51:07.640 --> 51:10.500
a big pharma death machine.

51:11.080 --> 51:13.980
Nobel Prize, only goes to wrongs.

51:14.400 --> 51:17.260
And this guy had been chairman,

51:17.640 --> 51:20.060
president of Rockefeller University in New York.

51:20.200 --> 51:26.280
I mean, he was absolutely 50 square miles of bad terrain.

51:26.600 --> 51:27.340
He was awful.

51:27.800 --> 51:31.460
And I let this vampire across my threshold

51:31.980 --> 51:36.660
for the BBC, Horizon, another BBC science programme,

51:36.780 --> 51:37.720
another sign of evil.

51:38.120 --> 51:40.180
I was so innocent, I didn't know any of this.

51:41.360 --> 51:42.420
Why am I telling you this?

51:42.780 --> 51:44.000
I don't know, I'm loving it.

51:44.600 --> 51:45.660
I used to trust the BBC.

51:46.640 --> 51:47.860
I too was that naive.

51:48.080 --> 51:50.500
And I now recognise that from the off,

51:51.600 --> 51:53.320
from the moment it was a twinkle,

51:53.500 --> 51:55.320
an evil twinkle in Lord Reed's eyes.

51:56.320 --> 51:57.560
Yeah, I was in the...

51:58.540 --> 51:59.940
It was really funny.

51:59.940 --> 52:02.260
I've listed this, all these people,

52:02.540 --> 52:04.220
not to you right here and now,

52:04.280 --> 52:07.160
but I have in the last few years regularly listed

52:07.160 --> 52:08.580
all the people that dropped me

52:09.300 --> 52:11.000
in all the associations.

52:11.380 --> 52:15.060
Because when you're a middle-ranking BBC presenter,

52:15.580 --> 52:18.140
you get invited to be patron of this ambassador for that.

52:18.540 --> 52:19.640
Charitable things.

52:20.180 --> 52:21.060
They all dropped me.

52:21.340 --> 52:23.980
But very late in the day,

52:24.240 --> 52:26.400
before it all started to happen to me, really,

52:28.180 --> 52:30.560
I was invited, because you have to be,

52:30.880 --> 52:33.140
to become a fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh,

52:34.260 --> 52:37.620
which is not quite as august as the Royal Society,

52:37.780 --> 52:39.460
but it's, you know, it's up there.

52:40.020 --> 52:42.780
It's very old, it's an 18th-century thing.

52:43.220 --> 52:44.580
And I was invited to be it,

52:44.600 --> 52:47.720
and you have to be vetted by the members.

52:47.960 --> 52:49.860
You changed the ceremony by the chance?

52:50.220 --> 52:51.680
I didn't get hazed.

52:51.860 --> 52:53.420
I don't remember waking up

52:53.420 --> 52:55.420
with my trousers on back to front or anything.

52:56.460 --> 52:57.680
And anyway, I was in.

52:57.880 --> 52:58.980
But I was no sooner in.

52:59.360 --> 53:01.060
I was in literally for less than a year,

53:01.840 --> 53:02.640
a matter of months.

53:03.980 --> 53:05.640
And I was saying...

53:07.020 --> 53:09.420
It was probably on GB News or something,

53:09.620 --> 53:10.980
a monologue I had delivered.

53:11.180 --> 53:13.240
I don't know, don't ask me which one it was

53:13.240 --> 53:14.640
and what it was about, because I don't know.

53:15.480 --> 53:18.300
I was on holiday with my family in Crete,

53:18.600 --> 53:21.180
and I got an email from whatever the secretary

53:21.180 --> 53:23.740
of the Royal Society of Edinburgh saying,

53:23.740 --> 53:25.840
the members are very upset with what you've said,

53:25.940 --> 53:27.560
and they want you to publish an apology

53:27.560 --> 53:29.240
and retract what you said.

53:29.780 --> 53:31.880
See, honestly, hand on my heart.

53:32.000 --> 53:33.240
I can't remember what it was.

53:33.460 --> 53:35.420
I don't know what I said.

53:36.180 --> 53:37.220
I've said so much.

53:39.000 --> 53:42.380
And I immediately, in high chagrin,

53:43.040 --> 53:44.560
just replied and said, well, I'm out.

53:46.300 --> 53:48.600
Not only am I not apologising, I'm out.

53:48.760 --> 53:49.780
I don't want any to do that.

53:49.940 --> 53:51.380
If that's the Royal Society of Edinburgh,

53:51.380 --> 53:55.400
you know, you can shove it in your puckered ringpiece,

53:55.600 --> 53:57.780
because it's not the kind of company

53:57.780 --> 54:00.300
I'd be prepared to keep now that I see what they're really about.

54:01.280 --> 54:02.820
Yeah, it was the only one.

54:03.040 --> 54:05.140
In the whole list of people that had dropped me,

54:05.940 --> 54:08.900
I kicked the Royal Society of Edinburgh into touch

54:08.900 --> 54:10.160
and told them they could shove it.

54:10.660 --> 54:13.340
And that sort of weasley way they got rid of you,

54:13.500 --> 54:15.260
what the members, which members?

54:15.500 --> 54:16.060
I mean...

54:16.540 --> 54:18.460
For all I know, it may have been just

54:18.460 --> 54:20.760
that one individual who was the secretary.

54:20.760 --> 54:23.500
I mean, maybe something I said on a Saturday night, you know,

54:24.400 --> 54:24.960
upset them.

54:25.040 --> 54:25.700
I have no idea.

54:25.940 --> 54:27.160
But like I say, it was so trivial.

54:27.260 --> 54:31.120
By that point, I had been castigated and, you know,

54:33.060 --> 54:35.260
and scorned by so many that I don't even remember

54:35.260 --> 54:37.320
what it was I was supposed to have done to upset them.

54:37.620 --> 54:38.460
Slough, yeah, whatever.

54:38.900 --> 54:39.360
Get lost.

54:41.180 --> 54:43.820
So, I was going to ask you about GB News,

54:45.980 --> 54:48.080
because I feel

54:49.460 --> 54:51.740
on GB News we've been sold a pup

54:51.740 --> 54:55.200
in as much as at the beginning,

54:56.220 --> 54:57.760
it used to have,

54:58.100 --> 54:59.920
even used to have people like me on it.

55:00.920 --> 55:02.260
And it sort of,

55:03.020 --> 55:05.440
it promoted itself as this kind of

55:05.440 --> 55:08.620
a genuine alternative to the mainstream.

55:12.400 --> 55:14.240
And it's clear to me now

55:14.240 --> 55:15.560
that all this was just a strategy.

55:15.560 --> 55:18.600
Its intention was always to get where it is now,

55:19.260 --> 55:23.560
which is essentially to be what sort of

55:23.560 --> 55:28.240
sort of Farage is England, I suppose.

55:28.960 --> 55:30.720
Farage is fake opposition England.

55:32.000 --> 55:34.340
And it's not an opposition to anything.

55:35.200 --> 55:36.780
It's completely part of the mainstream,

55:39.240 --> 55:41.160
which presumably is why they got rid of you.

55:42.080 --> 55:44.260
Well, they haven't got rid of me at all.

55:44.260 --> 55:47.700
I still record pieces that go on GB News online.

55:48.180 --> 55:51.200
I'm not on the television channel anymore.

55:51.660 --> 55:53.600
That's how they sideline you there.

55:55.580 --> 55:58.760
But honestly, again, I say this with no,

55:59.620 --> 56:00.800
this is the truth.

56:01.840 --> 56:03.620
It is what it is.

56:04.440 --> 56:07.820
And I am in the same way that I come on your,

56:08.400 --> 56:09.480
this podcast here.

56:10.360 --> 56:13.440
I say yes to absolutely everyone.

56:13.440 --> 56:15.500
I mean, I'm not always able to do every podcast.

56:16.300 --> 56:19.020
I mean, I get invited on to scores and I only do some

56:19.020 --> 56:20.960
because there's only so many hours in a day.

56:21.740 --> 56:23.920
And I don't bother.

56:24.100 --> 56:26.060
I've long since stopped worrying

56:26.060 --> 56:30.120
because I want to be able to speak

56:30.120 --> 56:32.680
in as many contexts as I can.

56:33.620 --> 56:36.960
I would walk into hell or whatever

56:36.960 --> 56:39.520
if I was going to get good numbers

56:39.520 --> 56:41.860
for what I was going to be invited to say.

56:43.780 --> 56:46.260
Most of what I hear coming from,

56:46.560 --> 56:48.220
that goes out on GB News, I don't agree with.

56:48.360 --> 56:51.380
I don't agree with the line on this and that,

56:51.620 --> 56:55.100
but I mean, I don't know how on board

56:55.100 --> 56:56.840
with everything that was on your newspaper,

56:57.420 --> 56:59.700
what paper was it you were columnizing for?

57:00.020 --> 57:01.640
The Sunday Times, the telegraph?

57:01.840 --> 57:02.700
No, telegraph.

57:03.140 --> 57:05.460
I don't know how much of it you agree with.

57:05.700 --> 57:07.040
I don't trouble myself with that.

57:07.420 --> 57:10.900
People are on it as presenters and hosts and guests.

57:11.960 --> 57:16.800
Dr. Hilary Jones was a guest on GB News the other day.

57:16.840 --> 57:17.580
I didn't see it.

57:17.740 --> 57:22.400
It's just somebody in high dodging asked me online

57:22.400 --> 57:23.980
what I thought of it and I didn't reply.

57:24.160 --> 57:24.640
I didn't answer.

57:25.500 --> 57:26.380
But oh God, right.

57:26.600 --> 57:27.900
Really, Dr. Hilary Jones,

57:28.020 --> 57:30.140
he have the jabs and wearing a mask

57:30.140 --> 57:32.040
when you go in the sea and all that kind of carry on.

57:32.220 --> 57:33.920
I don't even know what he was on to talk about.

57:34.040 --> 57:34.860
I just know he appeared.

57:35.400 --> 57:37.040
Probably wearing a mask in the sea.

57:38.500 --> 57:39.780
It's his field of expertise.

57:39.780 --> 57:41.840
I mean, if somebody invited me,

57:42.220 --> 57:43.240
I'd probably go,

57:43.980 --> 57:46.420
if I thought I was going to get the opportunity

57:46.420 --> 57:49.120
to vent spleen or give my opinion about something,

57:49.240 --> 57:50.560
I would turn up on the platform.

57:51.240 --> 57:53.780
You know, it doesn't...

57:53.780 --> 57:56.340
Honestly, I speak from the heart.

57:57.280 --> 57:57.680
Yes.

57:57.960 --> 57:58.100
I say that.

57:58.480 --> 58:00.380
And of course that will be used against you as well,

58:00.720 --> 58:01.380
the fact that you are...

58:01.380 --> 58:01.500
I do say.

58:02.020 --> 58:02.540
I do say.

58:02.840 --> 58:05.280
You know, we are all just...

58:05.280 --> 58:07.140
We are all just...

58:07.140 --> 58:09.420
Anyway, that's my position on that.

58:10.420 --> 58:12.540
It gets, you know...

58:12.540 --> 58:13.920
It's a platform.

58:14.280 --> 58:16.840
It gets good numbers in certain areas,

58:16.840 --> 58:19.160
and that works for me.

58:21.980 --> 58:22.460
Yes.

58:23.380 --> 58:24.080
I've been on...

58:24.080 --> 58:26.540
I went on Tucker Carlson's podcast,

58:27.020 --> 58:27.680
which I've very...

58:27.680 --> 58:29.340
He took me and my wife out

58:29.340 --> 58:31.800
to New England to do it.

58:31.800 --> 58:33.280
I did not know this.

58:33.500 --> 58:33.860
Yeah, yeah.

58:34.020 --> 58:36.340
I mean, you know, he got in touch.

58:36.940 --> 58:37.460
How was it?

58:37.460 --> 58:39.100
It was brilliant.

58:39.480 --> 58:40.380
I mean, I had a great time.

58:40.580 --> 58:42.640
He took us out and, you know,

58:42.700 --> 58:44.380
we had dinner with him the night before

58:44.380 --> 58:46.460
and we had a great session

58:46.460 --> 58:48.220
of doing the podcast in his barn.

58:49.240 --> 58:50.640
And, you know...

58:50.640 --> 58:51.420
It was great.

58:51.620 --> 58:52.140
Would he fly you out there?

58:52.280 --> 58:52.560
Yeah.

58:52.720 --> 58:53.000
To America.

58:53.000 --> 58:53.360
Absolutely.

58:54.100 --> 58:54.720
And I've been on...

58:54.720 --> 58:55.780
You know, I've been on Alex Jones.

58:56.240 --> 58:57.780
I've been on the info...

58:57.780 --> 58:58.540
Is it Infowars?

58:59.040 --> 58:59.520
Is that Alex?

58:59.520 --> 59:00.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

59:00.780 --> 59:03.000
I've been with Alex Jones a couple of times.

59:03.240 --> 59:03.460
Great.

59:03.800 --> 59:04.720
I mean, great fun.

59:05.220 --> 59:05.380
Great.

59:05.380 --> 59:07.640
Did you go to Texas?

59:07.960 --> 59:08.700
No, no, I didn't.

59:08.880 --> 59:10.960
The only one that flew me out was Tucker.

59:11.760 --> 59:14.340
And, you know, I mean, regular contact with Tucker,

59:14.560 --> 59:17.600
I've been on with Candice Owens, you know,

59:17.720 --> 59:20.100
who I love and fascinates me

59:20.100 --> 59:22.160
and I think she does the most amazing forensic

59:23.380 --> 59:25.980
interrogation of people like, you know,

59:26.020 --> 59:27.320
whatever from Brigitte Macron

59:27.320 --> 59:29.820
through to what's going on at TPUSA

59:29.820 --> 59:30.460
and all of that.

59:31.720 --> 59:32.520
And I...

59:32.520 --> 59:34.300
It's all part of life's rich tapestry.

59:34.300 --> 59:37.560
And if someone invites me on, I'm there.

59:38.240 --> 59:40.840
You know, if the scheduling enables it.

59:41.500 --> 59:46.200
I'm going to have to look up your Tucker.

59:46.700 --> 59:48.660
Got nearly a million viewers, James.

59:49.420 --> 59:50.300
Did it make you famous?

59:50.700 --> 59:53.580
Did it have any influence on your...

59:53.580 --> 59:55.320
Did you notice any impact?

59:55.420 --> 59:59.900
I would hope it maybe made people in America

59:59.900 --> 01:00:02.820
aware of me who previously hadn't been aware of me.

01:00:02.820 --> 01:00:04.040
I mean, his audience is vast.

01:00:04.460 --> 01:00:05.700
You know, you're talking...

01:00:05.700 --> 01:00:08.200
You know, Candice Owens, I believe,

01:00:08.360 --> 01:00:10.720
is the biggest podcast in the world at the moment.

01:00:11.300 --> 01:00:13.820
And, you know, I'm in contact with Candice.

01:00:14.020 --> 01:00:15.360
You know, we chew the fat about things

01:00:15.360 --> 01:00:16.640
and, likewise, Tucker.

01:00:17.160 --> 01:00:17.740
Love them.

01:00:18.360 --> 01:00:19.900
Great fun to talk to.

01:00:20.300 --> 01:00:22.840
And, you know, they've got their...

01:00:22.840 --> 01:00:25.160
People are levelling their brick bats at them

01:00:25.160 --> 01:00:27.200
and they're in the crosshairs of this and that

01:00:27.200 --> 01:00:27.580
and whatever.

01:00:27.800 --> 01:00:29.640
And we share, you know, we laugh

01:00:29.640 --> 01:00:30.740
in that kind of gallows,

01:00:30.740 --> 01:00:32.340
and we assume our way about the predicament

01:00:32.340 --> 01:00:34.460
in which we all, independent of one another,

01:00:34.560 --> 01:00:35.480
have found ourselves.

01:00:36.720 --> 01:00:37.620
It's great.

01:00:38.680 --> 01:00:41.440
Even though I think Tucker is CIA.

01:00:42.420 --> 01:00:43.520
Sorry, but he is.

01:00:43.880 --> 01:00:46.600
Well, he gets that leveled at him all the time.

01:00:47.180 --> 01:00:48.980
I mean, because he is.

01:00:49.460 --> 01:00:53.560
But doesn't mean to say that I don't love him

01:00:54.320 --> 01:00:57.920
and find him entertaining on most accounts

01:00:57.920 --> 01:01:00.180
and on point on a lot of things.

01:01:00.580 --> 01:01:00.920
Yeah.

01:01:01.400 --> 01:01:03.580
I just, I mean, I think he's incredibly brave.

01:01:04.260 --> 01:01:06.280
You know, I do think he puts himself in a very...

01:01:06.280 --> 01:01:07.940
Even if you don't believe that he's, you know,

01:01:07.960 --> 01:01:09.380
likely to be assassinated or something,

01:01:09.480 --> 01:01:10.600
I think he's incredibly brave

01:01:10.600 --> 01:01:13.760
and that he puts himself in line for so much abuse.

01:01:14.340 --> 01:01:17.240
And that is, that takes an enervating toll on a person.

01:01:17.780 --> 01:01:18.540
Whoever you are,

01:01:19.860 --> 01:01:23.280
being constantly deluged with hatred is, you know,

01:01:23.380 --> 01:01:24.660
it's a tough one.

01:01:24.900 --> 01:01:25.940
And Candice, likewise.

01:01:25.940 --> 01:01:29.120
I mean, she's a young mum and she's out there being loathed

01:01:29.560 --> 01:01:31.220
and accused of this, that and the next thing.

01:01:31.300 --> 01:01:33.780
And I just think, you know, good on you for being out there

01:01:33.780 --> 01:01:34.360
doing what you do.

01:01:34.660 --> 01:01:36.180
And the French intelligence services are trying to kill her.

01:01:36.900 --> 01:01:39.280
Only for pointing out that Bridget Macron

01:01:39.280 --> 01:01:41.460
is what's named dad.

01:01:42.080 --> 01:01:42.360
Yeah.

01:01:43.660 --> 01:01:44.100
So...

01:01:44.100 --> 01:01:45.580
Which she is, isn't he?

01:01:45.780 --> 01:01:45.980
Yeah.

01:01:46.700 --> 01:01:47.800
Well, I mean, Bridget...

01:01:47.800 --> 01:01:49.960
Emmanuel Macron's married his dad, yeah.

01:01:50.600 --> 01:01:50.820
Yeah.

01:01:51.500 --> 01:01:51.800
Exactly.

01:01:52.280 --> 01:01:54.540
So, okay, so you're with me on that one.

01:01:54.540 --> 01:01:55.820
You're with me and Candice on that one.

01:01:56.360 --> 01:01:57.540
Are you...

01:01:58.160 --> 01:01:58.760
Charlie Kirk.

01:01:59.480 --> 01:02:02.680
Is he living in Bahá'u'lláh, Ireland?

01:02:03.140 --> 01:02:05.320
Like, right at the start of this, you know,

01:02:05.340 --> 01:02:07.100
I said this thing about lacking certainty.

01:02:07.660 --> 01:02:11.120
I just don't know what happened that day in that place.

01:02:11.880 --> 01:02:12.120
Yeah.

01:02:12.660 --> 01:02:15.060
I saw the fascinating podcast that you did

01:02:15.060 --> 01:02:19.440
with a man with a northern European Germanic accent.

01:02:19.680 --> 01:02:21.260
He may have been Scandi, I can't remember.

01:02:21.620 --> 01:02:22.540
He was a...

01:02:22.540 --> 01:02:22.940
Damagard.

01:02:25.740 --> 01:02:26.580
Ole Damagard.

01:02:26.960 --> 01:02:28.060
Could have been.

01:02:28.780 --> 01:02:31.140
And, you know, he was saying that it never happened.

01:02:31.280 --> 01:02:33.040
It was, you know, rent a hysterical crowd.

01:02:33.500 --> 01:02:33.580
Yeah.

01:02:34.100 --> 01:02:34.860
It didn't happen at all.

01:02:35.300 --> 01:02:36.300
I listened to that and thought,

01:02:36.400 --> 01:02:39.120
my God, that's, you know, that's good listening to that.

01:02:39.340 --> 01:02:40.120
Very fascinating.

01:02:40.580 --> 01:02:43.580
I lack certainty about what happened to that man

01:02:43.580 --> 01:02:44.500
in that place.

01:02:44.820 --> 01:02:46.680
Honestly, that's where I am with that.

01:02:46.940 --> 01:02:49.580
I know for a fact that he was not shot

01:02:49.580 --> 01:02:52.360
with a 306 rifle by...

01:02:52.360 --> 01:02:52.640
No.

01:02:53.300 --> 01:02:53.880
That's nonsense.

01:02:54.380 --> 01:02:55.440
It was much messier, wouldn't it?

01:02:55.660 --> 01:02:57.620
Of all the million things, you know,

01:02:57.720 --> 01:02:59.300
in the, you know, in the, you know,

01:02:59.340 --> 01:03:01.800
the million monkeys typing on their typewriters,

01:03:02.080 --> 01:03:04.080
you know, the least credible explanation

01:03:04.080 --> 01:03:06.920
for what happened to that human being that day is

01:03:06.920 --> 01:03:11.200
he was shot by Tyler Robinson with a 306.

01:03:11.380 --> 01:03:13.380
That's the worst of it.

01:03:14.180 --> 01:03:15.000
Anything else?

01:03:15.540 --> 01:03:19.000
Well, I'll wait and see if the day ever comes

01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:22.060
when there's what could be regarded as, you know,

01:03:25.000 --> 01:03:26.660
undeniable veracity I'll see.

01:03:27.120 --> 01:03:28.060
I just don't...

01:03:28.060 --> 01:03:30.000
I just know that's not what happened to that man

01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:31.120
that day in that place.

01:03:32.240 --> 01:03:32.680
Yeah.

01:03:32.960 --> 01:03:38.060
Well, look, I think that's a very respectable position.

01:03:38.380 --> 01:03:40.820
I mean, and there are lots of things out there

01:03:43.400 --> 01:03:45.740
that it's good to keep an open mind on

01:03:45.740 --> 01:03:48.740
until you've done your deep dive.

01:03:49.180 --> 01:03:50.560
You know what it's like for me, James?

01:03:50.680 --> 01:03:52.440
You've made me think I'll just jump in and say this

01:03:52.440 --> 01:03:53.900
because I'll lose the train of thought, maybe.

01:03:55.200 --> 01:03:58.160
To me, the whole experience has been a bit like

01:03:58.160 --> 01:04:01.400
having been a blind person, suddenly gifted sight.

01:04:03.120 --> 01:04:06.720
Now, I don't mean X-ray vision or anything magical.

01:04:06.880 --> 01:04:10.400
I just mean the one of the five senses

01:04:10.400 --> 01:04:12.900
that everyone takes for granted if they have them.

01:04:13.520 --> 01:04:13.780
Yeah.

01:04:13.780 --> 01:04:16.020
But, you know, people who are born blind

01:04:16.860 --> 01:04:18.920
function and go about their lives

01:04:19.840 --> 01:04:23.700
being told, oh, red's like a hot stone and blue's like...

01:04:23.700 --> 01:04:25.940
Which is precisely, you know, you can only say

01:04:25.940 --> 01:04:26.920
what something is like.

01:04:27.300 --> 01:04:29.920
You can't actually use words to say what something is.

01:04:30.660 --> 01:04:33.860
You can only use words to liken something to something else.

01:04:35.640 --> 01:04:37.660
And for me, it's been like I was suddenly

01:04:37.660 --> 01:04:39.440
tapped on the shoulder with a magic wand

01:04:39.440 --> 01:04:40.960
and now I have sight.

01:04:41.660 --> 01:04:43.660
And so everything amazes me.

01:04:44.280 --> 01:04:47.740
It's like a child in a room suddenly given sight.

01:04:48.280 --> 01:04:50.580
I'm just looking around at everything in amazement,

01:04:50.860 --> 01:04:54.120
going, oh, wow, this is what it's like when you can see.

01:04:54.460 --> 01:04:56.000
And something being able to see doesn't mean

01:04:56.000 --> 01:04:59.340
that you're accurately interpreting all the things that you see

01:04:59.340 --> 01:05:01.540
because at that point you become at the mercy

01:05:01.540 --> 01:05:04.420
of optical illusion and sleight of hand and distraction

01:05:04.420 --> 01:05:06.120
and all the things that magicians use

01:05:06.120 --> 01:05:09.460
and in the modern context, AI and CGI

01:05:09.460 --> 01:05:12.480
and all of the rest of it, you know, being able to see

01:05:12.480 --> 01:05:16.240
does not proof you far from it, from anything.

01:05:16.940 --> 01:05:20.720
And it's just, I'm still going through the wide-eyed amazement.

01:05:20.880 --> 01:05:22.520
Oh, this is what it's like to see.

01:05:23.220 --> 01:05:24.680
I don't think I'm looking at everything

01:05:24.680 --> 01:05:28.800
and properly identifying everything that the photons bouncing off

01:05:28.800 --> 01:05:30.320
of everything are actually...

01:05:30.320 --> 01:05:33.580
I don't claim to be interpreting it all with 100% accuracy.

01:05:36.340 --> 01:05:39.160
I feel I haven't exhausted the Tucker question yet.

01:05:39.160 --> 01:05:42.340
When he's not doing a podcast with you

01:05:42.340 --> 01:05:43.740
and you say in something...

01:05:43.740 --> 01:05:44.620
Which is most of the time.

01:05:45.060 --> 01:05:48.100
Does he go like that?

01:05:48.760 --> 01:05:51.260
Does he do his Tucker?

01:05:51.460 --> 01:05:54.120
I can honestly say I found him in the flesh.

01:05:54.400 --> 01:05:56.400
I found him to be exactly the same person.

01:05:57.960 --> 01:05:59.060
He was like that.

01:05:59.900 --> 01:06:01.320
He's kind of slaughtered.

01:06:03.940 --> 01:06:05.940
Well, all the time I was with him,

01:06:05.940 --> 01:06:10.400
all of his mannerisms, his body language, his laugh,

01:06:11.160 --> 01:06:15.540
all of those things that he does when he's interviewing you.

01:06:16.080 --> 01:06:16.840
He does anyway.

01:06:17.780 --> 01:06:20.880
That's all I can say. He was just that person.

01:06:22.000 --> 01:06:25.960
Can I say, this is Envy speaking, Neil.

01:06:26.720 --> 01:06:28.340
It's not bitchiness.

01:06:29.180 --> 01:06:31.160
I do like him.

01:06:31.160 --> 01:06:38.080
I think it's like a friend of mine knows a Rothschild

01:06:39.240 --> 01:06:43.460
and the Rothschild person loves my friend

01:06:44.140 --> 01:06:46.740
and is helping him out with something.

01:06:48.220 --> 01:06:50.360
It's not as simple as...

01:06:50.360 --> 01:06:54.400
Just because Tucker CIA probably doesn't mean

01:06:54.400 --> 01:06:56.900
that I wouldn't love to be on his podcast and don't think he's great.

01:06:56.900 --> 01:07:00.320
In the same way, just because we know that the Rothschilds

01:07:00.320 --> 01:07:03.520
are one of the most evil families in the world

01:07:04.020 --> 01:07:08.220
and they help run the world doesn't mean to say that on an individual level

01:07:08.220 --> 01:07:10.720
they couldn't be lovely to you and they couldn't be your best friend.

01:07:11.360 --> 01:07:13.960
The world is much more complicated than they think.

01:07:15.080 --> 01:07:19.320
Surely you could be born with the Rothschild surname.

01:07:21.580 --> 01:07:24.360
None of us gets to choose our anything.

01:07:24.960 --> 01:07:26.280
Neil, I would have said that.

01:07:26.680 --> 01:07:30.720
I still think you're maybe three or four years behind me

01:07:30.720 --> 01:07:32.300
on the journey down the rabbit hole.

01:07:32.800 --> 01:07:35.360
I would have said that, but all the research I've done

01:07:35.360 --> 01:07:38.380
into the bloodlines, families and the behavior,

01:07:39.140 --> 01:07:43.740
how they treat their progeny,

01:07:44.920 --> 01:07:49.360
it's all about turning them into kind of mind controlled psychopaths.

01:07:50.200 --> 01:07:52.900
So they're sexually abused from a very early age.

01:07:54.560 --> 01:07:56.620
The kids that don't make the grade,

01:07:56.620 --> 01:07:58.400
that don't become psychopaths themselves,

01:08:00.140 --> 01:08:03.960
tend to die of drug overdoses and in car accidents and things.

01:08:04.560 --> 01:08:12.920
They tend to weed out the aberrant good members of the family.

01:08:13.060 --> 01:08:15.720
So you're never going to get any saints in the Rothschilds

01:08:15.720 --> 01:08:18.060
or the Rockefellers or the Van Dynes or the DuPonts

01:08:18.060 --> 01:08:19.620
or the Collins ears.

01:08:19.620 --> 01:08:22.160
So what does that mean about your friend's friend?

01:08:22.980 --> 01:08:27.560
Well, what it means is that people are more complicated

01:08:27.560 --> 01:08:30.200
than just simple cacklingly evil.

01:08:31.640 --> 01:08:33.900
They're nice to their friends. They can be charming.

01:08:34.800 --> 01:08:36.300
They can be...

01:08:36.300 --> 01:08:39.880
I was just talking to the man who's planting some trees

01:08:39.880 --> 01:08:40.980
in my garden at the moment,

01:08:41.260 --> 01:08:44.600
and he was telling me about how he'd been invited

01:08:44.600 --> 01:08:52.820
to the stately home of the local toff

01:08:53.380 --> 01:08:56.220
and he was saying how delightful the chap had been

01:08:56.220 --> 01:08:56.820
and how charming.

01:08:57.000 --> 01:08:59.800
And I said, well, of course he was charming.

01:08:59.980 --> 01:09:01.880
That's what they're trained to do at Eaton

01:09:01.880 --> 01:09:03.660
and in their upbringing.

01:09:05.540 --> 01:09:07.120
People are too quick to say,

01:09:07.460 --> 01:09:10.460
oh, I've met so-and-so and they're lovely.

01:09:10.600 --> 01:09:11.360
They're absolutely delightful

01:09:11.360 --> 01:09:13.680
because I've spent time in their company being charmed by them.

01:09:13.680 --> 01:09:17.160
Well, charm is a useful quality to have.

01:09:17.380 --> 01:09:18.600
I have it myself occasionally,

01:09:18.900 --> 01:09:21.120
but it's also a devilish quality.

01:09:21.500 --> 01:09:24.540
The devil has got charms and spades.

01:09:26.200 --> 01:09:29.000
In the same way, I'm sure that saints

01:09:29.000 --> 01:09:32.580
could occasionally be grouchy miserable so-and-soes.

01:09:33.340 --> 01:09:34.520
We're all a bit mixed.

01:09:35.140 --> 01:09:36.640
It's not all black and white.

01:09:39.060 --> 01:09:39.620
Almost.

01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:42.080
I think that's where I am about everything.

01:09:42.080 --> 01:09:44.600
I just don't know.

01:09:45.680 --> 01:09:52.880
But, Neil, the reason I didn't drink enough water this morning,

01:09:53.220 --> 01:09:58.440
I did it because my wife went to the office

01:10:00.640 --> 01:10:03.040
and didn't have breakfast with me today.

01:10:03.720 --> 01:10:07.540
I did the thing where you intermittent fast.

01:10:07.540 --> 01:10:12.880
I skipped breakfast and I know it's good for you,

01:10:12.880 --> 01:10:16.260
but then I had a very, very salty tagine

01:10:16.260 --> 01:10:22.340
and I haven't got enough water and I'm drying up.

01:10:22.820 --> 01:10:24.480
I'd treat you to that personal.

01:10:26.800 --> 01:10:28.460
I'm not going to let you off the hook

01:10:29.600 --> 01:10:33.760
as regards grand universal theories of everything.

01:10:33.760 --> 01:10:41.540
You're obviously a really bright, well-read bloke.

01:10:42.640 --> 01:10:44.840
You used that word on me that I didn't understand,

01:10:45.440 --> 01:10:46.780
but you have to explain to me.

01:10:46.840 --> 01:10:47.400
Tell me the word again.

01:10:48.720 --> 01:10:49.280
Apophatic.

01:10:50.400 --> 01:10:50.960
Apophatic.

01:10:51.440 --> 01:10:52.600
And there was another word you used to say.

01:10:53.340 --> 01:10:53.900
Apophatic.

01:10:56.040 --> 01:10:56.600
Cataphatic.

01:10:57.080 --> 01:10:59.980
The positive way and the negative way.

01:11:01.000 --> 01:11:03.260
You know slouch in the intellectual department

01:11:03.260 --> 01:11:08.480
and you are more or less a batshit, crazy, conspiracy theorist

01:11:08.480 --> 01:11:11.460
and you've been down the rabbit hole for a while now.

01:11:13.360 --> 01:11:16.420
So you must have asked yourself the question,

01:11:17.300 --> 01:11:20.020
all this bad, bad shit that's going on in the world

01:11:20.020 --> 01:11:21.860
and it's really horrible and it's getting worse.

01:11:22.040 --> 01:11:22.560
It really is.

01:11:22.680 --> 01:11:25.420
I mean potholes, for example.

01:11:25.680 --> 01:11:26.440
We could talk about potholes.

01:11:26.680 --> 01:11:27.420
We could talk about everywhere.

01:11:27.880 --> 01:11:30.520
There's a spectrum that goes from potholes all the way

01:11:30.520 --> 01:11:33.300
to children being sacrificed to Satan for their adrenochrome

01:11:33.300 --> 01:11:36.460
and everything in between and this is all happening now

01:11:36.460 --> 01:11:38.520
as we speak and it's getting worse.

01:11:40.480 --> 01:11:44.440
You know all this, so you must have asked yourself

01:11:45.040 --> 01:11:47.280
who's doing this and why

01:11:47.280 --> 01:11:53.380
and you must have come up with at least a kind of sketchy theory on this.

01:11:54.420 --> 01:11:55.860
I've got so many theories.

01:11:57.100 --> 01:11:59.560
Don't tell me it's the anarchy.

01:12:00.320 --> 01:12:08.920
I think broadly what I think is that there is an agenda

01:12:10.640 --> 01:12:18.360
that predates most of what most people regard as history.

01:12:20.160 --> 01:12:23.600
There's a determination, as I say,

01:12:23.960 --> 01:12:29.140
I think it wasn't coined for the first time by John in his gospel

01:12:29.140 --> 01:12:32.840
but that idea of wherever there's a light,

01:12:33.000 --> 01:12:37.140
there's a determination to counter it.

01:12:37.280 --> 01:12:37.960
Okay.

01:12:38.580 --> 01:12:46.220
I often think there's a film that I saw years ago

01:12:46.220 --> 01:12:49.080
and it's based on a novel by Peter Straub.

01:12:50.140 --> 01:12:52.060
It's called Ghost Story.

01:12:52.940 --> 01:12:58.760
It's a big fat book and it became a film probably in the 1990s

01:12:58.760 --> 01:13:04.220
and it's the idea that there's an evil entity

01:13:05.060 --> 01:13:07.600
and it keeps on manifesting.

01:13:08.220 --> 01:13:09.840
It's essentially immortal

01:13:10.660 --> 01:13:15.580
and it has manifest into the lives of a bunch of men

01:13:15.580 --> 01:13:19.920
in mid-20th century in the context of the novel

01:13:19.920 --> 01:13:23.860
and it comes to them in the context of a,

01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:25.600
in the guise of a young woman

01:13:25.600 --> 01:13:28.200
and they wrong the young woman

01:13:28.980 --> 01:13:33.200
and the entity then comes after them

01:13:33.200 --> 01:13:36.200
in the classic Ghost Story vengeance style

01:13:36.200 --> 01:13:41.520
but the entity is able to keep on leaving the guise that it has had

01:13:41.520 --> 01:13:42.880
and take on something else

01:13:42.880 --> 01:13:45.600
and it's called, for the sake of the novel,

01:13:45.840 --> 01:13:46.920
it's called the Manitou,

01:13:47.080 --> 01:13:50.640
which if you look up in sort of Native American lore,

01:13:51.020 --> 01:13:53.320
a Manitou is a kind of an eternal spirit

01:13:53.320 --> 01:13:56.460
that appears and then becomes something else

01:13:56.460 --> 01:13:58.200
and I think, you know,

01:13:59.460 --> 01:14:00.820
you're asking me what I think.

01:14:00.980 --> 01:14:02.320
I think there's an agenda,

01:14:02.320 --> 01:14:06.600
an intention to subvert the natural order

01:14:08.320 --> 01:14:10.980
and it is the dark, you might say

01:14:11.620 --> 01:14:13.220
and its intention is to do,

01:14:13.520 --> 01:14:16.160
well the dark is what is there when there is no light.

01:14:16.580 --> 01:14:18.820
The dark isn't really anything in and of itself,

01:14:18.820 --> 01:14:20.260
it's an absence of light

01:14:21.100 --> 01:14:23.720
and I think there's a darkness and a dark intent

01:14:24.320 --> 01:14:29.200
and it keeps on manifesting time and time and time again

01:14:29.200 --> 01:14:33.200
taking on and being, you know, hiding within

01:14:33.200 --> 01:14:36.120
and being and disguising itself

01:14:36.120 --> 01:14:40.340
but I think there's an intention that's very old

01:14:40.340 --> 01:14:42.540
that is to subvert the natural order

01:14:43.200 --> 01:14:48.140
and at the moment I think it's approaching

01:14:48.140 --> 01:14:51.520
a climactic moment, you know,

01:14:51.680 --> 01:14:53.400
it's shit or get off the pot,

01:14:53.680 --> 01:14:58.300
fish or cut bait, it's going for it at this time

01:14:58.300 --> 01:15:02.560
and that's why more people are becoming more aware

01:15:02.560 --> 01:15:05.920
because it's becoming more obvious than it's,

01:15:06.100 --> 01:15:08.680
I'm not going to say more obvious than it's ever been

01:15:09.220 --> 01:15:13.180
but I think it's becoming more obvious in our time

01:15:13.180 --> 01:15:16.740
than it has been for maybe a long time, maybe ever

01:15:17.720 --> 01:15:18.780
although I doubt it

01:15:18.780 --> 01:15:21.880
and I think that ultimately it's to subvert the natural order

01:15:21.880 --> 01:15:22.860
I think it's anti-human,

01:15:24.120 --> 01:15:26.180
I think it means that's why it attacks

01:15:26.180 --> 01:15:30.160
at the fundamental level, family, community

01:15:31.360 --> 01:15:33.500
even what it is to be human and alive

01:15:33.500 --> 01:15:39.360
that's why it's got the transgender, the trans-human aspect of it

01:15:39.360 --> 01:15:43.000
it's even inviting people to be uncertain about

01:15:44.080 --> 01:15:45.480
what even is human

01:15:47.020 --> 01:15:50.380
but all of the subversion of the natural order

01:15:50.380 --> 01:15:52.220
is manifesting itself and that's why

01:15:52.220 --> 01:15:54.640
because I am middle management in every way

01:15:54.640 --> 01:15:57.020
I say to myself well if you've noticed

01:15:57.020 --> 01:15:58.680
it must be pretty noticeable

01:15:58.680 --> 01:16:01.500
because there's nothing particularly intuitive

01:16:01.500 --> 01:16:03.180
or perceptive about me

01:16:03.180 --> 01:16:06.860
I'm not the dullest blade in the drawer

01:16:06.860 --> 01:16:08.420
but neither am I the sharpest

01:16:08.420 --> 01:16:13.040
I'm just workman like cutlery

01:16:13.780 --> 01:16:15.660
Who is the sharpest blade in the drawer?

01:16:17.440 --> 01:16:19.860
Oh, you mean alive and walking around today?

01:16:20.180 --> 01:16:20.440
Yeah

01:16:21.820 --> 01:16:23.540
I don't think there is anyone

01:16:23.540 --> 01:16:24.920
I think everyone's got feet of clay

01:16:24.920 --> 01:16:26.620
I don't think there's anyone who's

01:16:26.620 --> 01:16:28.380
still not that unaware of

01:16:30.860 --> 01:16:33.820
You can still be the sharpest blade in the drawer

01:16:33.820 --> 01:16:35.860
with maybe a clay base

01:16:35.860 --> 01:16:38.580
I think definitely what we're seeing

01:16:38.580 --> 01:16:40.760
which I won't deny I do find satisfying

01:16:40.760 --> 01:16:43.840
I think the more on paper

01:16:43.840 --> 01:16:45.080
qualified people are

01:16:45.080 --> 01:16:46.540
you intend to work

01:16:49.000 --> 01:16:51.700
they're the most gulled

01:16:51.700 --> 01:16:53.960
they've just spent more of their lives

01:16:53.960 --> 01:16:56.840
being indoctrinated by the indoctrinating

01:16:56.840 --> 01:16:58.320
negative force

01:16:58.320 --> 01:17:00.780
the more letters someone has after their name

01:17:00.780 --> 01:17:02.300
I tend to think, oh dear

01:17:03.140 --> 01:17:05.460
I'm so glad I haven't got a doctorate

01:17:05.460 --> 01:17:06.720
Yeah, me too

01:17:06.720 --> 01:17:08.060
I keep saying to people

01:17:08.060 --> 01:17:10.160
Mr's good enough for Spock and Sherlock

01:17:10.160 --> 01:17:11.560
so it's good enough for me

01:17:11.560 --> 01:17:12.520
Yeah

01:17:12.520 --> 01:17:14.900
Now I suppose what I was getting around to

01:17:14.900 --> 01:17:16.940
in your case was you made a very

01:17:16.940 --> 01:17:17.800
interesting observation

01:17:17.800 --> 01:17:19.660
which I think is true by the way

01:17:19.660 --> 01:17:21.580
I agree with everything you say

01:17:21.580 --> 01:17:24.400
what you said about evil and stuff

01:17:24.400 --> 01:17:26.600
and it's the kind of antithesis of light

01:17:28.500 --> 01:17:32.180
but you mentioned that this force

01:17:32.180 --> 01:17:34.200
is anti-human

01:17:35.460 --> 01:17:35.800
Now

01:17:38.140 --> 01:17:40.460
in my schematic

01:17:41.560 --> 01:17:44.400
which is actually not a million miles from yours

01:17:44.400 --> 01:17:46.760
except I'm more explicit about it

01:17:46.760 --> 01:17:47.300
in my schematic

01:17:47.300 --> 01:17:49.960
this is all very clearly explained

01:17:49.960 --> 01:17:52.960
that the fallen angels

01:17:52.960 --> 01:17:54.980
hate mankind

01:17:54.980 --> 01:17:58.220
because God made us

01:17:58.220 --> 01:17:59.320
in his image

01:17:59.320 --> 01:18:01.360
they felt jealous of him

01:18:01.360 --> 01:18:04.040
they wanted to replace God

01:18:04.040 --> 01:18:06.240
create a simulacrum

01:18:06.240 --> 01:18:08.540
of God's creation

01:18:08.540 --> 01:18:10.640
but a human, well a sort of

01:18:10.640 --> 01:18:12.120
fallen angel

01:18:12.120 --> 01:18:14.160
straight human version of it

01:18:14.160 --> 01:18:16.600
which is why they built the tower of Babel and so on

01:18:17.860 --> 01:18:20.940
all this stuff is explained very clearly

01:18:20.940 --> 01:18:22.440
in the Bible

01:18:22.440 --> 01:18:24.480
actually it's not very clearly

01:18:24.480 --> 01:18:25.940
but it is explained in the Bible

01:18:26.600 --> 01:18:28.480
and we've had to sort of fill in the blanks

01:18:28.480 --> 01:18:30.480
but it is pretty much spelled out

01:18:30.480 --> 01:18:33.680
I'm just wondering why you don't go

01:18:33.680 --> 01:18:35.660
yeah basically

01:18:36.400 --> 01:18:38.500
it is some

01:18:38.500 --> 01:18:40.740
the fallen angels and their offspring

01:18:40.740 --> 01:18:42.240
rebelling against God

01:18:42.240 --> 01:18:44.920
with the help of some human accomplices

01:18:44.920 --> 01:18:48.540
well that's why it's so interesting

01:18:48.540 --> 01:18:50.860
that all of that material is so interesting

01:18:50.860 --> 01:18:53.400
and hard to interpret obviously

01:18:53.400 --> 01:18:55.100
certainly for someone like me

01:18:55.100 --> 01:18:57.580
but I am aware for example

01:18:57.580 --> 01:18:59.240
that when you say

01:19:00.520 --> 01:19:03.100
God created man in his image

01:19:03.100 --> 01:19:05.360
he created Adam

01:19:07.020 --> 01:19:08.320
in his image

01:19:09.620 --> 01:19:12.080
Adam uniquely was not born

01:19:12.080 --> 01:19:14.340
he was not carried just

01:19:14.340 --> 01:19:16.480
dated within a woman's body

01:19:16.480 --> 01:19:17.740
and given birth

01:19:17.740 --> 01:19:19.380
he was created

01:19:19.840 --> 01:19:21.840
out of the clay let's say

01:19:21.840 --> 01:19:24.140
as far as Genesis

01:19:24.140 --> 01:19:25.040
would have it

01:19:25.040 --> 01:19:28.060
but everybody else is born

01:19:28.060 --> 01:19:28.660
of

01:19:30.040 --> 01:19:32.440
well in the Bible

01:19:32.440 --> 01:19:33.820
telling everybody else is

01:19:33.820 --> 01:19:35.280
born of Adam and Eve

01:19:35.280 --> 01:19:38.400
in the conventional way

01:19:38.400 --> 01:19:41.220
so when you talk about

01:19:41.220 --> 01:19:42.740
the fallen angels

01:19:42.740 --> 01:19:45.500
being angry about God's image

01:19:45.500 --> 01:19:46.580
there's only

01:19:47.220 --> 01:19:47.860
Adam

01:19:48.900 --> 01:19:50.120
they would only have that

01:19:50.120 --> 01:19:52.540
in your schemata

01:19:52.920 --> 01:19:54.860
be levelling that kind of ire

01:19:54.860 --> 01:19:56.340
at Adam specifically

01:19:56.340 --> 01:19:57.940
because everybody else is born of Adam

01:19:57.940 --> 01:19:59.820
I think that's a

01:19:59.820 --> 01:20:02.240
really fair point

01:20:02.240 --> 01:20:04.600
we can infer very clearly

01:20:04.940 --> 01:20:07.460
that the fallen angels

01:20:07.460 --> 01:20:09.780
the Bible is constantly talking about

01:20:09.780 --> 01:20:10.400
the son of man

01:20:10.400 --> 01:20:12.920
and by the son of man they mean

01:20:12.920 --> 01:20:15.740
the sons of Adam

01:20:15.740 --> 01:20:18.060
but it is assumed

01:20:18.060 --> 01:20:19.440
there is a kind of ellipsis

01:20:19.440 --> 01:20:20.380
which takes place there

01:20:20.380 --> 01:20:22.660
which is for Adam

01:20:22.660 --> 01:20:24.760
see also all men thereafter

01:20:24.760 --> 01:20:27.480
I think it's a nice

01:20:27.480 --> 01:20:29.580
point but I'm not sure it's a very valuable point

01:20:29.580 --> 01:20:30.480
and also the

01:20:32.260 --> 01:20:33.300
Sethian heresy

01:20:33.300 --> 01:20:35.080
in inverted commas

01:20:36.120 --> 01:20:38.160
insists that there's a prologue

01:20:38.160 --> 01:20:38.740
to Genesis

01:20:38.740 --> 01:20:41.680
and that you detect it

01:20:41.680 --> 01:20:43.840
between Genesis 1

01:20:43.840 --> 01:20:45.320
1 and Genesis 1

01:20:45.320 --> 01:20:46.040
2

01:20:46.040 --> 01:20:49.500
so the Sethian heresy

01:20:49.500 --> 01:20:51.040
which has

01:20:51.040 --> 01:20:51.480
some

01:20:53.320 --> 01:20:56.120
things in common with the Manichaeanism

01:20:56.120 --> 01:20:57.740
and other

01:20:58.680 --> 01:20:59.480
heresies

01:20:59.480 --> 01:21:00.540
and I'm just using the word

01:21:00.540 --> 01:21:04.160
I'm just saying they are called heresies

01:21:04.160 --> 01:21:05.380
you know but

01:21:05.380 --> 01:21:06.260
so there are

01:21:07.760 --> 01:21:09.260
I'm not hard and fast

01:21:09.260 --> 01:21:11.500
about interpreting

01:21:11.500 --> 01:21:13.140
the Bible because I think

01:21:13.920 --> 01:21:15.800
I've read enough and seen enough

01:21:15.800 --> 01:21:16.840
to know that there are as many

01:21:18.420 --> 01:21:19.440
loopholes if you like

01:21:19.440 --> 01:21:21.820
there are ways in which brighter minds than mine

01:21:21.820 --> 01:21:24.080
have spotted a hold on

01:21:24.080 --> 01:21:25.900
this might be what's meant

01:21:25.900 --> 01:21:26.520
by that

01:21:27.260 --> 01:21:29.500
and you talk about the fallen angels

01:21:30.680 --> 01:21:31.720
there's probably

01:21:31.720 --> 01:21:33.240
even a distinction between

01:21:33.240 --> 01:21:35.520
you know people

01:21:35.520 --> 01:21:36.820
talk about

01:21:37.720 --> 01:21:39.900
presumably the ultimate fallen angel

01:21:39.900 --> 01:21:40.840
is Satan

01:21:41.490 --> 01:21:42.960
yeah but presumably

01:21:42.960 --> 01:21:46.700
this is one of the hard things

01:21:46.700 --> 01:21:48.000
it's hard to work out

01:21:48.000 --> 01:21:50.080
but etymologically

01:21:50.080 --> 01:21:51.900
Satan means the

01:21:51.900 --> 01:21:52.480
adversary

01:21:53.720 --> 01:21:55.760
someone who sets

01:21:55.760 --> 01:21:56.800
himself against

01:21:57.740 --> 01:21:59.340
his opposite

01:21:59.340 --> 01:22:00.700
or god

01:22:01.340 --> 01:22:03.420
and then there's the devil

01:22:03.420 --> 01:22:05.340
and the devil means accuser

01:22:05.960 --> 01:22:09.400
and then there's Lucifer which is the son

01:22:09.400 --> 01:22:09.940
of the morning

01:22:12.020 --> 01:22:13.200
morning star

01:22:13.200 --> 01:22:14.940
and all of the rest of it

01:22:16.360 --> 01:22:19.600
so the ultimate fallen angel

01:22:19.600 --> 01:22:20.620
is

01:22:21.340 --> 01:22:23.100
Satan but Satan

01:22:23.100 --> 01:22:24.920
according to the Bible

01:22:24.920 --> 01:22:26.640
plainly walks the earth

01:22:26.640 --> 01:22:28.600
you know he's not in hell

01:22:29.760 --> 01:22:30.200
because

01:22:30.200 --> 01:22:31.500
in Job for example

01:22:31.500 --> 01:22:34.520
he rucks up and God asks him what he's been up to

01:22:34.520 --> 01:22:36.640
and he says I've been wondering about and I've spotted your man

01:22:36.640 --> 01:22:38.920
Job and I think I can do a number

01:22:38.920 --> 01:22:40.620
on him and God says well if you go

01:22:40.620 --> 01:22:42.400
and do your work so Satan's roaming

01:22:42.400 --> 01:22:44.380
the earth and God knows it

01:22:44.380 --> 01:22:46.840
and you're talking about

01:22:46.840 --> 01:22:48.920
the angels

01:22:48.920 --> 01:22:50.960
you're talking about the angels that fall

01:22:50.960 --> 01:22:52.600
in as much as they give

01:22:52.600 --> 01:22:54.480
into their lustful tendencies

01:22:54.480 --> 01:22:56.180
and they see

01:22:56.180 --> 01:22:57.820
and covet the

01:22:58.480 --> 01:22:59.300
daughters of

01:23:00.360 --> 01:23:02.200
the daughters of man

01:23:02.200 --> 01:23:04.600
and they want in amongst them

01:23:04.600 --> 01:23:05.760
and they breed with them

01:23:06.560 --> 01:23:07.620
and it's only

01:23:08.480 --> 01:23:11.000
you know the fallen angels all seem to be male

01:23:11.000 --> 01:23:12.740
there aren't any

01:23:12.740 --> 01:23:14.540
there aren't any fallen

01:23:14.540 --> 01:23:15.420
feminine

01:23:16.100 --> 01:23:18.400
angels that couple with

01:23:18.400 --> 01:23:19.720
sons of

01:23:20.220 --> 01:23:21.680
it's always male angels

01:23:21.680 --> 01:23:23.780
so and they are

01:23:23.780 --> 01:23:25.240
they are of a different

01:23:25.240 --> 01:23:26.640
they are of a different

01:23:26.640 --> 01:23:28.980
they are progeny are the

01:23:30.060 --> 01:23:31.980
Nephilim which are the Watchers

01:23:31.980 --> 01:23:33.420
you know which there's a great deal

01:23:33.420 --> 01:23:35.420
more about in the book of Enoch

01:23:35.420 --> 01:23:36.780
than there is in Genesis

01:23:37.720 --> 01:23:39.200
so there's a bit more detail

01:23:39.200 --> 01:23:41.940
in the book of Enoch about who exactly

01:23:41.940 --> 01:23:43.880
is there in that context

01:23:45.140 --> 01:23:45.960
all I mean

01:23:45.960 --> 01:23:47.640
all I mean is that it's

01:23:47.640 --> 01:23:49.860
I certainly do not claim to have

01:23:49.860 --> 01:23:51.960
the necessary knowledge nor

01:23:51.960 --> 01:23:52.340
wit

01:23:53.840 --> 01:23:55.980
comprehensively to interpret what is there

01:23:55.980 --> 01:23:57.900
in the redacted

01:23:57.900 --> 01:23:59.720
rewritten interpolated

01:23:59.720 --> 01:24:01.840
translated entity

01:24:01.840 --> 01:24:03.100
that's called the Bible

01:24:03.960 --> 01:24:05.600
I'm listening to what you're saying

01:24:05.600 --> 01:24:07.120
and I listen to what

01:24:07.760 --> 01:24:09.600
scores of other people say about it

01:24:09.600 --> 01:24:11.480
and there are as many into it

01:24:11.480 --> 01:24:13.820
I don't think to counter your

01:24:13.820 --> 01:24:15.900
point that it is that cut and dry

01:24:15.900 --> 01:24:17.900
that you just read the Bible and get

01:24:17.900 --> 01:24:19.860
the truth I don't think it's

01:24:19.860 --> 01:24:20.820
anything like that

01:24:20.820 --> 01:24:22.560
nor was I

01:24:23.860 --> 01:24:25.400
asking you to

01:24:26.340 --> 01:24:26.860
um

01:24:27.440 --> 01:24:29.620
agree with me although nothing you've said actually

01:24:30.400 --> 01:24:32.060
what you just told me is that

01:24:32.060 --> 01:24:33.680
you've read a lot about this stuff and you've been

01:24:33.680 --> 01:24:35.640
you've been keeping your powder dry

01:24:35.640 --> 01:24:37.820
and waiting for me to

01:24:37.820 --> 01:24:39.120
to approach your

01:24:39.680 --> 01:24:41.060
the palace aid

01:24:41.060 --> 01:24:43.600
before giving me the full volley

01:24:43.600 --> 01:24:45.820
but no I mean I don't disagree with anything

01:24:45.820 --> 01:24:47.580
that you say and I'm aware of all these

01:24:47.580 --> 01:24:49.000
these inconsistencies

01:24:49.000 --> 01:24:50.880
but it seems to me

01:24:50.880 --> 01:24:52.080
to be

01:24:53.420 --> 01:24:55.140
a cop out if you like

01:24:55.140 --> 01:24:57.540
to say well there's this

01:24:57.540 --> 01:24:59.620
elemental force of

01:24:59.620 --> 01:25:00.720
evil

01:25:00.720 --> 01:25:03.460
which is the opposite of light

01:25:03.460 --> 01:25:05.360
and it's kind of like a man or two and

01:25:05.360 --> 01:25:06.900
stuff I

01:25:07.560 --> 01:25:08.800
I think there's

01:25:09.660 --> 01:25:10.300
it's not

01:25:11.720 --> 01:25:13.600
even if you don't have to be right

01:25:13.600 --> 01:25:15.260
and you don't have to be

01:25:16.000 --> 01:25:16.560
adamant

01:25:16.560 --> 01:25:19.460
but I think that you need

01:25:19.460 --> 01:25:21.340
a better working theory than you've

01:25:21.340 --> 01:25:23.880
got at the moment you don't even have a theory

01:25:23.880 --> 01:25:25.280
I don't even have a theory

01:25:25.860 --> 01:25:27.600
well that yeah and that's what's

01:25:27.600 --> 01:25:29.580
troubling me slightly I'm puzzled

01:25:29.580 --> 01:25:31.220
as to why because

01:25:31.220 --> 01:25:33.280
I mean we're human

01:25:33.880 --> 01:25:35.460
we're trained to watch

01:25:36.220 --> 01:25:38.080
we like watching dramas

01:25:38.080 --> 01:25:39.780
and we've

01:25:39.780 --> 01:25:41.140
taught ourselves maybe it's innate

01:25:42.100 --> 01:25:43.140
to try

01:25:43.140 --> 01:25:45.060
and work out the motivations

01:25:45.060 --> 01:25:47.120
and if it's just

01:25:47.120 --> 01:25:48.300
motorless malignity

01:25:48.980 --> 01:25:51.180
we feel uncomfortable with it because we kind of want

01:25:51.180 --> 01:25:52.580
to know what people are doing

01:25:52.580 --> 01:25:54.600
I think it works in

01:25:54.980 --> 01:25:57.000
what I think is I think it works in that way

01:25:57.000 --> 01:25:58.960
again I go back to the line in John about

01:25:58.960 --> 01:26:00.780
the light and the dark

01:26:01.580 --> 01:26:02.380
I think

01:26:03.620 --> 01:26:05.160
the lesson that's there

01:26:05.160 --> 01:26:05.760
is that

01:26:06.760 --> 01:26:09.100
the dark or the evil

01:26:09.100 --> 01:26:10.680
or the

01:26:10.680 --> 01:26:13.120
absence of God I mean there's as many ways

01:26:13.120 --> 01:26:14.380
of expressing the thought

01:26:15.100 --> 01:26:16.240
it is

01:26:16.680 --> 01:26:18.900
what happens unless people are

01:26:18.900 --> 01:26:20.020
actively good

01:26:21.100 --> 01:26:23.280
I think the dynamism

01:26:23.280 --> 01:26:24.280
comes from

01:26:25.020 --> 01:26:25.860
the light

01:26:27.100 --> 01:26:27.860
and the

01:26:29.080 --> 01:26:30.040
evil

01:26:30.040 --> 01:26:31.140
the devil

01:26:31.140 --> 01:26:32.860
darkness

01:26:34.100 --> 01:26:35.800
wickedness manifest

01:26:35.800 --> 01:26:37.580
is what happens when

01:26:37.580 --> 01:26:39.440
the active

01:26:40.400 --> 01:26:41.140
good

01:26:42.040 --> 01:26:43.140
drops its

01:26:43.490 --> 01:26:45.220
you know drops its burden

01:26:45.800 --> 01:26:47.820
you know I think it's beholden

01:26:47.820 --> 01:26:50.300
on the other side of the equation

01:26:50.300 --> 01:26:51.720
to be

01:26:51.720 --> 01:26:53.580
actively the light

01:26:53.580 --> 01:26:56.240
because it's in the absence of that

01:26:56.240 --> 01:26:56.920
it's when the

01:26:57.800 --> 01:26:59.360
shoulders slump

01:26:59.360 --> 01:27:01.440
and the burden is set down

01:27:01.440 --> 01:27:03.740
the dark

01:27:03.740 --> 01:27:05.560
the evil is then

01:27:06.400 --> 01:27:07.560
that's what you get

01:27:08.200 --> 01:27:09.600
I think that's what's there

01:27:09.600 --> 01:27:11.920
encapsulated in the prologue to John

01:27:13.240 --> 01:27:14.300
do you think

01:27:14.300 --> 01:27:15.360
are you

01:27:16.480 --> 01:27:17.540
I don't want to

01:27:17.540 --> 01:27:18.380
dump

01:27:19.320 --> 01:27:21.340
terms on you if they're not fair

01:27:21.340 --> 01:27:24.100
but would you say that are you sympathetic to the new age

01:27:24.980 --> 01:27:25.880
what do you mean

01:27:25.880 --> 01:27:26.620
by the new age

01:27:26.620 --> 01:27:29.700
well the teachings of sort of Madame Blavatsky

01:27:29.700 --> 01:27:30.100
and

01:27:30.100 --> 01:27:31.540
no, not particularly

01:27:31.540 --> 01:27:34.180
again I find the Theosophy movement

01:27:34.180 --> 01:27:36.100
interesting and I find the anthroposophy

01:27:36.100 --> 01:27:36.540
of

01:27:38.600 --> 01:27:39.240
Steiner

01:27:40.100 --> 01:27:42.180
yes, Rudolf Steiner

01:27:42.180 --> 01:27:43.780
I find all of these things

01:27:43.780 --> 01:27:45.260
interesting because I think

01:27:46.400 --> 01:27:48.140
more in the case of Steiner

01:27:48.140 --> 01:27:49.880
than Blavatsky I think he was

01:27:49.880 --> 01:27:51.160
genuinely striving

01:27:52.100 --> 01:27:53.120
I think there's something

01:27:54.780 --> 01:27:55.760
there's a limit

01:27:55.760 --> 01:27:58.160
to which I just

01:27:58.160 --> 01:27:59.560
on the face of it I accept

01:28:00.160 --> 01:28:01.260
wisdom that's

01:28:01.990 --> 01:28:02.700
accomplished by

01:28:04.380 --> 01:28:05.620
clairvoyance and mysticism

01:28:06.160 --> 01:28:07.580
I'm not sure about that

01:28:08.620 --> 01:28:10.400
and that's obviously what makes me

01:28:10.400 --> 01:28:11.800
because Steiner

01:28:11.800 --> 01:28:12.920
thought that he was

01:28:14.380 --> 01:28:14.880
absorbing

01:28:15.600 --> 01:28:16.620
what he knew

01:28:16.620 --> 01:28:18.640
out of the ether almost

01:28:18.640 --> 01:28:21.220
and maybe he was, maybe he wasn't but

01:28:21.220 --> 01:28:23.020
I certainly wouldn't be certain about it

01:28:23.020 --> 01:28:26.160
so I've got more time for anthroposophy than

01:28:26.160 --> 01:28:28.380
than Theosophy

01:28:29.920 --> 01:28:32.440
but I just, I'm interested

01:28:32.440 --> 01:28:34.100
and open to people

01:28:34.100 --> 01:28:35.940
who I think are genuinely

01:28:35.940 --> 01:28:37.800
questing genuinely

01:28:39.440 --> 01:28:40.060
trying

01:28:40.060 --> 01:28:42.100
trying to manifest good

01:28:42.100 --> 01:28:44.480
and I think some people genuinely are

01:28:44.480 --> 01:28:46.160
how would you go about this

01:28:46.160 --> 01:28:47.880
I mean what would the world look like

01:28:47.880 --> 01:28:50.320
what would people be doing more of

01:28:51.040 --> 01:28:52.340
in a good world

01:28:52.340 --> 01:28:54.020
yeah, I mean

01:28:54.020 --> 01:28:55.240
if that's the answer

01:28:55.240 --> 01:28:57.600
if we're going to defeat this evil

01:28:57.600 --> 01:29:00.180
I think it's infinitely fascinating

01:29:00.180 --> 01:29:01.040
I believe

01:29:01.040 --> 01:29:03.400
I don't think

01:29:03.400 --> 01:29:05.640
I think a lot of the trouble in the west

01:29:05.640 --> 01:29:06.280
is because

01:29:06.280 --> 01:29:09.720
the Old Testament was bracketed on

01:29:09.720 --> 01:29:11.640
to the New Testament and the whole thing

01:29:11.640 --> 01:29:12.960
was called the Holy Bible

01:29:12.960 --> 01:29:14.960
you know, Oregon

01:29:14.960 --> 01:29:17.220
and in particular was

01:29:17.800 --> 01:29:18.560
incensed about

01:29:18.560 --> 01:29:21.340
the wrongness of doing that

01:29:21.340 --> 01:29:23.620
of bolting

01:29:23.620 --> 01:29:24.600
like a dead

01:29:25.340 --> 01:29:26.640
elephant onto the

01:29:26.640 --> 01:29:29.380
wing of the little light Cessna aircraft

01:29:29.380 --> 01:29:30.620
that was the New Testament

01:29:31.340 --> 01:29:33.340
you know, he couldn't believe that they had

01:29:33.340 --> 01:29:35.240
done that to the

01:29:35.240 --> 01:29:37.340
I don't think Oregon used that

01:29:37.340 --> 01:29:40.320
I don't think he used that metaphor either

01:29:40.320 --> 01:29:41.340
but you know what I mean

01:29:41.340 --> 01:29:43.100
you know, he couldn't believe

01:29:43.100 --> 01:29:45.380
that they had so burdened

01:29:45.380 --> 01:29:46.460
and so traduced

01:29:47.140 --> 01:29:49.360
the New Testament by bolting

01:29:49.360 --> 01:29:50.900
it together with the Old

01:29:50.900 --> 01:29:53.280
and so when you say

01:29:53.280 --> 01:29:54.640
what would the world look like

01:29:55.260 --> 01:29:57.280
I think the message

01:29:58.100 --> 01:29:59.140
that Jesus

01:30:00.020 --> 01:30:01.320
came to deliver

01:30:01.320 --> 01:30:02.860
was extremely simple

01:30:03.720 --> 01:30:05.880
and I think it all boiled down to

01:30:05.880 --> 01:30:07.740
well, you know what it boils down to

01:30:07.740 --> 01:30:08.400
it's

01:30:10.000 --> 01:30:11.400
treat everyone like you'd wish

01:30:11.400 --> 01:30:13.740
to be treated, you know, it's that golden rule

01:30:14.740 --> 01:30:17.140
and I think if the world

01:30:17.140 --> 01:30:18.140
was made up of people

01:30:19.220 --> 01:30:20.660
earnestly doing that

01:30:21.980 --> 01:30:23.320
then you would see

01:30:23.320 --> 01:30:24.620
what you would see, you know

01:30:24.980 --> 01:30:26.940
Francis Hutchison who had the chair of moral

01:30:26.940 --> 01:30:28.220
philosophy at Glasgow University

01:30:28.220 --> 01:30:30.040
in the middle of the 18th century

01:30:30.040 --> 01:30:31.960
part of the Scottish Enlightenment

01:30:31.960 --> 01:30:33.780
I mean he preached that happiness

01:30:34.420 --> 01:30:36.760
was not random manna from heaven

01:30:36.760 --> 01:30:38.960
manna incidentally is an interesting word

01:30:38.960 --> 01:30:40.320
it means I don't know what that is

01:30:41.740 --> 01:30:42.960
so the thing that the

01:30:42.960 --> 01:30:44.440
Israelites were eating in the desert

01:30:44.440 --> 01:30:46.560
they were literally saying I don't know what that is

01:30:46.560 --> 01:30:48.140
but so

01:30:48.140 --> 01:30:50.440
Hutchison said happiness is not

01:30:50.440 --> 01:30:52.680
just random it's not a lottery win

01:30:53.320 --> 01:30:54.660
it's on the contrary

01:30:54.660 --> 01:30:56.000
it's what happens when you give

01:30:56.000 --> 01:30:58.620
all of your effort to making other people's lives

01:30:58.620 --> 01:30:59.060
better

01:30:59.960 --> 01:31:02.680
and if you do that with every fibre of your being

01:31:02.680 --> 01:31:04.280
then a collateral benefit

01:31:04.280 --> 01:31:05.800
is some happiness for you

01:31:06.460 --> 01:31:07.780
and that then

01:31:08.220 --> 01:31:10.700
when one of his students, John Witherspoon

01:31:10.700 --> 01:31:12.300
was invited to become

01:31:12.300 --> 01:31:14.900
the second president of what is now Princeton University

01:31:15.680 --> 01:31:16.160
he

01:31:17.080 --> 01:31:18.860
he took that teaching with him

01:31:18.860 --> 01:31:21.100
and there are good reasons for thinking that the line

01:31:21.100 --> 01:31:23.540
he is a signatory of the Declaration of Independence

01:31:23.540 --> 01:31:24.620
also Witherspoon

01:31:24.620 --> 01:31:28.020
and there are good reasons for thinking that the line about the pursuit of happiness

01:31:28.020 --> 01:31:29.500
made its way into that document

01:31:29.500 --> 01:31:31.160
because of Witherspoon

01:31:31.920 --> 01:31:33.840
and ultimately because of the teaching

01:31:33.840 --> 01:31:36.080
of Francis Hutchison

01:31:36.080 --> 01:31:36.520
who said

01:31:37.300 --> 01:31:39.380
if you give out all of your effort

01:31:39.380 --> 01:31:41.640
to making other people better off

01:31:41.640 --> 01:31:43.920
then that will make you happy

01:31:44.740 --> 01:31:46.180
that's the pursuit of

01:31:46.180 --> 01:31:48.280
that is the earnest pursuit of happiness

01:31:48.940 --> 01:31:49.740
and I think

01:31:49.740 --> 01:31:52.740
I don't think because of all the interpolations

01:31:52.740 --> 01:31:53.280
and all of the

01:31:53.280 --> 01:31:54.980
all of the agenda-riven

01:31:56.420 --> 01:31:57.380
reinterpretations of

01:31:57.380 --> 01:32:00.360
whatever Jesus and others said

01:32:00.360 --> 01:32:01.920
I think the only

01:32:01.920 --> 01:32:03.680
as much of it

01:32:03.680 --> 01:32:05.580
and I would even leave a qualifier there

01:32:05.580 --> 01:32:07.580
for it I think the line about

01:32:07.580 --> 01:32:10.000
treat everyone like you would wish to be treated

01:32:10.000 --> 01:32:12.360
if we saw that manifest

01:32:13.100 --> 01:32:14.120
in the world

01:32:14.120 --> 01:32:16.560
then the world would be a better place

01:32:18.480 --> 01:32:19.320
oh I think

01:32:19.940 --> 01:32:20.840
I think no question

01:32:22.180 --> 01:32:23.640
yeah so that's

01:32:24.360 --> 01:32:25.140
you know

01:32:26.420 --> 01:32:28.380
that's what I think about that

01:32:28.380 --> 01:32:29.060
that's

01:32:29.060 --> 01:32:31.480
so I agree that that's I mean

01:32:32.000 --> 01:32:34.060
it ain't gonna happen unfortunately because

01:32:34.060 --> 01:32:34.860
because

01:32:34.860 --> 01:32:36.340
because of the

01:32:36.340 --> 01:32:37.700
well

01:32:38.340 --> 01:32:41.020
it's almost systematically embedded isn't it

01:32:41.020 --> 01:32:42.180
bad behaviour

01:32:42.180 --> 01:32:44.740
is the system encourages

01:32:45.980 --> 01:32:46.440
amoral

01:32:46.900 --> 01:32:48.180
behaviour

01:32:49.340 --> 01:32:50.260
it's

01:32:50.260 --> 01:32:52.620
you look at the kind of things that

01:32:52.620 --> 01:32:54.680
kids are taught on

01:32:54.680 --> 01:32:56.300
graduate training

01:32:56.300 --> 01:32:58.840
new schemes and they're all these

01:32:58.840 --> 01:33:00.740
these artificial

01:33:00.740 --> 01:33:03.300
values that are imposed upon them

01:33:03.300 --> 01:33:05.080
which have a sort of

01:33:05.080 --> 01:33:07.100
virtual adjacent field to them

01:33:07.100 --> 01:33:08.240
like sustainability

01:33:08.240 --> 01:33:10.700
everyone knows that sustainability is good without

01:33:10.700 --> 01:33:13.140
really having questioned the origins of that

01:33:13.140 --> 01:33:14.300
of that term

01:33:14.880 --> 01:33:15.980
or the whole

01:33:16.820 --> 01:33:18.620
diversity, equity and inclusion

01:33:18.620 --> 01:33:21.280
these are all sold to us as

01:33:21.280 --> 01:33:23.320
as good things and they're not

01:33:23.320 --> 01:33:25.300
necessarily well in fact not at all

01:33:27.700 --> 01:33:29.200
but I agree

01:33:29.200 --> 01:33:30.320
with you that

01:33:30.940 --> 01:33:33.000
if we all loved our neighbour as ourselves

01:33:33.000 --> 01:33:35.140
it would make a huge difference

01:33:35.140 --> 01:33:36.900
but it doesn't really answer the question

01:33:36.900 --> 01:33:39.280
about why things have got

01:33:39.920 --> 01:33:41.240
that feeling you've got

01:33:41.240 --> 01:33:42.960
and I've got that we're approaching

01:33:42.960 --> 01:33:44.100
the kind of

01:33:45.100 --> 01:33:47.340
well what people might call end times

01:33:47.340 --> 01:33:48.980
but we're seeing it about

01:33:48.980 --> 01:33:50.020
as bad as it's ever been

01:33:50.020 --> 01:33:51.700
why is that

01:33:53.140 --> 01:33:54.100
why people's

01:33:54.100 --> 01:33:55.580
why is it happening

01:33:59.520 --> 01:34:00.320
I think

01:34:04.340 --> 01:34:05.300
it

01:34:05.300 --> 01:34:06.440
it's partly

01:34:06.820 --> 01:34:08.940
I think the consequence

01:34:08.940 --> 01:34:09.840
of

01:34:11.160 --> 01:34:12.560
soft living

01:34:14.000 --> 01:34:17.060
by which I'm referencing the idea

01:34:17.060 --> 01:34:17.340
that

01:34:17.340 --> 01:34:20.860
a hard working entrepreneurial

01:34:20.860 --> 01:34:23.060
go-getter establishes

01:34:23.060 --> 01:34:23.880
a fortune

01:34:23.880 --> 01:34:26.020
and then the next generation

01:34:28.920 --> 01:34:31.480
squander it and then the third generation

01:34:31.480 --> 01:34:33.540
finally throws it all away

01:34:33.540 --> 01:34:35.520
and ends up in the gutter with a needle

01:34:35.520 --> 01:34:37.080
in their arm you know that kind of

01:34:37.080 --> 01:34:37.940
trajectory

01:34:38.880 --> 01:34:39.640
and I think

01:34:40.580 --> 01:34:42.580
in the west certainly

01:34:42.580 --> 01:34:45.360
I certainly can't speak to

01:34:45.360 --> 01:34:47.500
parts of the world in which I was not

01:34:47.500 --> 01:34:48.560
raised and

01:34:49.580 --> 01:34:51.380
the idea of which I

01:34:51.380 --> 01:34:52.640
have not absorbed

01:34:53.260 --> 01:34:54.540
but I think we've been

01:34:54.540 --> 01:34:56.260
I am too

01:34:58.040 --> 01:34:59.380
we've set aside

01:35:00.060 --> 01:35:01.380
too much of what it means

01:35:01.380 --> 01:35:02.600
to be human and alive

01:35:03.260 --> 01:35:04.840
you know and I think for example

01:35:05.940 --> 01:35:07.240
in my case

01:35:07.240 --> 01:35:09.340
I would say and many like me

01:35:09.340 --> 01:35:11.620
we've allowed to be

01:35:13.080 --> 01:35:13.560
denatured

01:35:13.560 --> 01:35:14.560
of our masculinity

01:35:15.960 --> 01:35:16.720
and again

01:35:16.720 --> 01:35:19.280
I can't speak to the feminine because

01:35:19.280 --> 01:35:20.740
I'm not a woman I am only

01:35:20.740 --> 01:35:22.100
I am only a man

01:35:22.100 --> 01:35:24.080
but I'm aware of the fact that

01:35:24.080 --> 01:35:26.920
the kind of warrior creed

01:35:26.920 --> 01:35:28.060
you know and

01:35:28.680 --> 01:35:30.540
you know that the innate

01:35:31.500 --> 01:35:32.620
potency of

01:35:32.620 --> 01:35:33.560
violence

01:35:34.840 --> 01:35:35.480
properly

01:35:36.260 --> 01:35:38.600
mastered and channeled

01:35:38.600 --> 01:35:40.780
is what you want from a man

01:35:40.780 --> 01:35:42.900
and you don't want just

01:35:42.900 --> 01:35:44.860
arbitrarily casually violent

01:35:44.860 --> 01:35:46.820
men but that

01:35:46.820 --> 01:35:48.960
teaching that if you think that you're

01:35:48.960 --> 01:35:51.100
a nice person and you have no violence

01:35:51.100 --> 01:35:52.900
in you then you're much more dangerous than

01:35:52.900 --> 01:35:53.860
a violent person

01:35:53.860 --> 01:35:55.900
and the best of all

01:35:55.900 --> 01:35:57.500
is someone who has

01:35:58.380 --> 01:35:59.560
accepted the presence

01:35:59.560 --> 01:36:01.120
of the monster

01:36:01.560 --> 01:36:02.120
and has

01:36:03.840 --> 01:36:04.800
mastered it

01:36:04.800 --> 01:36:07.860
you know the word

01:36:08.680 --> 01:36:09.220
meek

01:36:09.860 --> 01:36:11.500
the meek shall inherit the earth

01:36:11.500 --> 01:36:13.740
everyone most people think meek

01:36:13.740 --> 01:36:14.760
means just whatever

01:36:14.760 --> 01:36:17.040
weak really soft

01:36:17.740 --> 01:36:19.720
but when you follow its translation

01:36:19.720 --> 01:36:21.520
out of the Greek it comes from

01:36:21.520 --> 01:36:21.920
prose

01:36:23.300 --> 01:36:24.600
and it's about

01:36:24.600 --> 01:36:26.540
the images of

01:36:26.540 --> 01:36:28.200
a wild horse

01:36:28.200 --> 01:36:31.500
which in and of itself is a skittish

01:36:31.500 --> 01:36:33.300
uncreditable creature

01:36:33.300 --> 01:36:35.120
that's labelled to hurt itself and others

01:36:35.120 --> 01:36:36.140
if it's provoked

01:36:36.140 --> 01:36:39.280
but once it's mastered

01:36:39.280 --> 01:36:41.340
by its rider it becomes meek

01:36:41.340 --> 01:36:43.020
which is to say it becomes

01:36:43.020 --> 01:36:45.740
an incredibly effective channeled

01:36:45.740 --> 01:36:47.140
power

01:36:47.140 --> 01:36:48.800
that's meek

01:36:48.800 --> 01:36:50.500
mastered power

01:36:50.500 --> 01:36:52.460
and so I think

01:36:52.460 --> 01:36:55.260
we've had too long of being told

01:36:55.260 --> 01:36:56.960
the things that we've been told

01:36:56.960 --> 01:36:58.360
in the west I can't do anything

01:36:58.360 --> 01:37:00.160
I can't go into the wild

01:37:00.160 --> 01:37:01.820
and hunt

01:37:01.820 --> 01:37:04.620
and provide in practical terms

01:37:04.620 --> 01:37:06.540
for my family I'm dependent

01:37:06.540 --> 01:37:09.040
on shops and I'm dependent on all of it

01:37:09.040 --> 01:37:10.800
so I think we've denatured

01:37:11.780 --> 01:37:12.400
ourselves

01:37:13.640 --> 01:37:15.820
or we've been denatured

01:37:15.820 --> 01:37:16.460
well yes

01:37:16.460 --> 01:37:18.700
it's a chicken and egg situation

01:37:18.700 --> 01:37:19.920
because we have

01:37:19.920 --> 01:37:21.800
I suppose the animal

01:37:21.800 --> 01:37:23.460
if the animal is offered

01:37:24.060 --> 01:37:25.940
honey it will gorge on it

01:37:26.460 --> 01:37:28.320
we will go to the sweet

01:37:28.320 --> 01:37:29.540
we will go to

01:37:30.340 --> 01:37:32.380
you would naturally

01:37:32.380 --> 01:37:34.160
set aside your hammer and your

01:37:34.160 --> 01:37:36.620
shovel and live a soft life

01:37:36.620 --> 01:37:37.840
if it's offered to you because

01:37:40.240 --> 01:37:42.040
it's there and it's innate

01:37:42.040 --> 01:37:44.200
in the species not many people

01:37:44.200 --> 01:37:46.700
will pick the ascetic spartan life

01:37:46.700 --> 01:37:48.000
if something

01:37:48.000 --> 01:37:50.440
furlined and sweet is offered

01:37:50.440 --> 01:37:51.240
as an alternative

01:37:52.220 --> 01:37:54.160
you know so and that

01:37:54.160 --> 01:37:56.060
that tendency of the animal

01:37:56.060 --> 01:37:58.100
has been identified long ago

01:37:58.920 --> 01:38:00.200
you know you give them bread

01:38:00.200 --> 01:38:01.820
and circuses and all of that

01:38:01.820 --> 01:38:04.020
then comes into play so you say

01:38:04.020 --> 01:38:05.600
why did it why has it happened

01:38:06.200 --> 01:38:07.420
I think it's because

01:38:08.300 --> 01:38:10.340
life has become too easy

01:38:10.340 --> 01:38:12.020
and we have become

01:38:12.020 --> 01:38:13.820
soft and

01:38:13.820 --> 01:38:16.020
that has been our undoing

01:38:18.760 --> 01:38:20.260
it's going to be I'm feeling

01:38:20.260 --> 01:38:21.280
quite depressed now Neil

01:38:22.560 --> 01:38:24.140
it's not I don't think

01:38:24.140 --> 01:38:25.540
I am not depressed

01:38:25.540 --> 01:38:26.520
I think

01:38:26.520 --> 01:38:27.500
I think

01:38:29.820 --> 01:38:31.360
you know sadness

01:38:31.360 --> 01:38:32.980
or whatever gets a bad rap

01:38:33.720 --> 01:38:34.400
I think

01:38:35.960 --> 01:38:37.720
you're sold a version

01:38:37.720 --> 01:38:39.440
of life which is about happiness

01:38:39.440 --> 01:38:41.100
which I think is really

01:38:41.100 --> 01:38:42.840
akin to drunkenness

01:38:43.440 --> 01:38:45.200
which is fun but it's not really

01:38:45.200 --> 01:38:47.420
a way to live a life just being drunk

01:38:48.020 --> 01:38:49.520
you know you need to be sober

01:38:49.520 --> 01:38:51.760
as well most of the time

01:38:51.760 --> 01:38:52.880
to get things done

01:38:53.600 --> 01:38:55.480
and there's a whole rich

01:38:56.960 --> 01:38:57.920
texture of

01:38:57.920 --> 01:38:59.180
of reality

01:38:59.180 --> 01:39:01.700
of what it is to be human and alive

01:39:02.520 --> 01:39:03.420
and we've been

01:39:03.420 --> 01:39:05.120
we've been brow beaten and

01:39:06.240 --> 01:39:06.960
MKUltraid and

01:39:08.040 --> 01:39:08.700
brainwashed

01:39:08.700 --> 01:39:10.880
into thinking that you know unless

01:39:10.880 --> 01:39:12.960
you've got three Range Rovers

01:39:12.960 --> 01:39:14.160
a Lamborghini

01:39:14.960 --> 01:39:16.780
infinite upgrades on your phone

01:39:16.780 --> 01:39:18.780
and you never have to work and everything's

01:39:18.780 --> 01:39:20.720
I think Gordon Ramsay has

01:39:20.720 --> 01:39:21.980
that's a complete

01:39:21.980 --> 01:39:23.880
that's a complete travesty

01:39:24.750 --> 01:39:26.680
you know that which

01:39:26.680 --> 01:39:27.960
we have been sold

01:39:27.960 --> 01:39:30.620
is our undoing and I think

01:39:30.620 --> 01:39:32.320
you say I'm depressed

01:39:32.320 --> 01:39:35.020
I think it's

01:39:35.020 --> 01:39:36.940
infinitely thrilling

01:39:37.720 --> 01:39:38.960
you know

01:39:38.960 --> 01:39:40.600
to contemplate

01:39:40.600 --> 01:39:42.520
the fullness

01:39:42.520 --> 01:39:44.180
the rich texture

01:39:44.980 --> 01:39:46.800
of what it is to be human and alive

01:39:46.800 --> 01:39:48.220
and I think you can

01:39:48.220 --> 01:39:49.720
you know

01:39:49.720 --> 01:39:53.200
you know success is counted sweetest

01:39:53.200 --> 01:39:55.100
by those who never succeed to comprehend

01:39:55.100 --> 01:39:57.240
an actor requires sores need

01:39:58.800 --> 01:40:00.920
I think you know it's

01:40:00.920 --> 01:40:01.960
sores need

01:40:02.680 --> 01:40:03.920
is what comes back

01:40:03.920 --> 01:40:04.840
into your life

01:40:05.520 --> 01:40:07.700
if you're splashed in the face

01:40:07.700 --> 01:40:09.820
or slapped in the face with the realisation

01:40:09.820 --> 01:40:11.760
that a soft easy life is not worth

01:40:11.760 --> 01:40:12.580
having at all

01:40:14.160 --> 01:40:15.580
and you know that

01:40:16.260 --> 01:40:16.820
it's

01:40:18.340 --> 01:40:20.000
it's once you're confronted with that

01:40:20.000 --> 01:40:21.540
then even if you don't achieve it

01:40:21.540 --> 01:40:23.560
but being invited to

01:40:23.560 --> 01:40:24.960
strive you know

01:40:24.960 --> 01:40:27.540
to strive and not to yield

01:40:27.540 --> 01:40:28.900
you know these things are true

01:40:28.900 --> 01:40:30.600
and even if you

01:40:30.600 --> 01:40:31.960
fall and fail

01:40:31.960 --> 01:40:34.380
you know not one of all the purple

01:40:34.380 --> 01:40:36.820
host that took the flag today can tell the definition

01:40:36.820 --> 01:40:38.680
so clear of victory as him defeated

01:40:38.680 --> 01:40:40.280
dying on whose forbidden ear

01:40:40.690 --> 01:40:43.280
the distant sounds of triumph burst agonised

01:40:43.280 --> 01:40:43.800
and clear

01:40:45.560 --> 01:40:46.360
what's that from

01:40:46.890 --> 01:40:48.320
that's Emily Dickinson but

01:40:48.320 --> 01:40:49.980
I don't know the name of the poem but

01:40:50.710 --> 01:40:51.260
you know that

01:40:51.260 --> 01:40:54.140
even if you don't make it

01:40:54.140 --> 01:40:55.620
even if you fall in the battle

01:40:55.620 --> 01:40:57.600
even if you don't taste

01:40:57.600 --> 01:40:59.900
the ambrosia even if you don't

01:41:00.460 --> 01:41:01.600
what matters

01:41:01.600 --> 01:41:02.880
is to know it's there

01:41:03.520 --> 01:41:04.860
and to live your life

01:41:04.860 --> 01:41:07.700
you know in the pursuit of it

01:41:08.440 --> 01:41:09.120
that's

01:41:09.120 --> 01:41:10.540
we've been

01:41:10.540 --> 01:41:12.300
we're handed this

01:41:12.300 --> 01:41:13.680
this nonsense

01:41:15.340 --> 01:41:16.020
ersatz

01:41:17.340 --> 01:41:19.120
success and happiness that is not

01:41:19.120 --> 01:41:20.120
that is neither

01:41:21.420 --> 01:41:23.440
yeah look I agree with everything you're saying

01:41:23.440 --> 01:41:25.260
but I'm

01:41:25.260 --> 01:41:27.100
recognising the irony of this here

01:41:27.100 --> 01:41:29.420
look there you are in your nice

01:41:29.420 --> 01:41:30.020
um

01:41:30.600 --> 01:41:33.000
I've already said I am one of those

01:41:34.240 --> 01:41:35.200
that's what I mean

01:41:35.200 --> 01:41:37.660
so we're preaching this stuff

01:41:37.660 --> 01:41:38.500
but actually

01:41:39.260 --> 01:41:39.820
really

01:41:39.820 --> 01:41:42.800
I've got my nice microphone that you've got

01:41:42.800 --> 01:41:44.480
I don't preach this stuff I don't think

01:41:45.380 --> 01:41:47.060
I'm an exemplar of anything

01:41:47.060 --> 01:41:49.540
I'm just interested

01:41:50.660 --> 01:41:52.840
all I'm saying is

01:41:52.840 --> 01:41:53.120
that

01:41:53.120 --> 01:41:55.600
should we really even be talking

01:41:55.600 --> 01:41:56.600
what we should be doing

01:41:57.300 --> 01:41:59.200
is going and

01:41:59.200 --> 01:42:00.680
pumping iron

01:42:01.500 --> 01:42:01.900
and

01:42:01.900 --> 01:42:04.720
being learning

01:42:05.300 --> 01:42:06.460
martial arts skills

01:42:06.460 --> 01:42:09.560
while we still have an ounce of strength

01:42:09.560 --> 01:42:11.260
in our failing

01:42:11.260 --> 01:42:12.500
feminised bodies

01:42:13.220 --> 01:42:14.600
I mean this is

01:42:14.600 --> 01:42:17.280
I think some shits about

01:42:17.280 --> 01:42:19.240
the hit the fan and although I've got

01:42:19.240 --> 01:42:21.500
I've planted some garlic this year

01:42:21.500 --> 01:42:22.660
I'm happy about my garlic

01:42:23.240 --> 01:42:24.940
I'm happy about the small

01:42:25.540 --> 01:42:26.720
measures I've taken

01:42:27.180 --> 01:42:29.240
towards self-sufficiency I recognise that they're

01:42:29.240 --> 01:42:30.160
pitifully inadequate

01:42:30.780 --> 01:42:33.040
I also subscribe

01:42:33.700 --> 01:42:35.420
to some extent to the notion

01:42:35.420 --> 01:42:37.020
that you know the whole a lot of

01:42:37.700 --> 01:42:39.180
you're talking about you know fallen

01:42:39.180 --> 01:42:41.140
angels and all of the rest of it and you'll

01:42:41.140 --> 01:42:43.040
have read into the you know the whole

01:42:43.040 --> 01:42:44.940
you know the idea of the demi-urge

01:42:44.940 --> 01:42:47.020
and you know and that the whole

01:42:47.020 --> 01:42:48.780
of the whole physical real

01:42:48.780 --> 01:42:50.860
world that we experience is the

01:42:50.860 --> 01:42:51.800
creation of

01:42:51.800 --> 01:42:54.200
you know an artisanal

01:42:54.650 --> 01:42:56.140
lesser being the demi-urge

01:42:56.790 --> 01:42:58.060
you don't bind to that but

01:42:58.060 --> 01:42:59.860
that's noctisism which I

01:42:59.860 --> 01:43:02.980
well you call it I'm not

01:43:02.980 --> 01:43:04.780
I'm not saying that I'm just

01:43:04.780 --> 01:43:06.860
saying it's another thing to

01:43:06.860 --> 01:43:08.360
consider you know there's a

01:43:08.940 --> 01:43:09.280
the

01:43:11.660 --> 01:43:12.900
the cathars

01:43:12.900 --> 01:43:14.900
you know who were you know who were

01:43:14.900 --> 01:43:15.880
wiped out in the

01:43:15.880 --> 01:43:18.940
you know the 13th and 14th centuries

01:43:18.940 --> 01:43:20.520
Alba Jensen Crusade

01:43:20.520 --> 01:43:22.080
now

01:43:22.840 --> 01:43:24.600
their version of whatever

01:43:24.600 --> 01:43:25.240
belief

01:43:26.700 --> 01:43:28.720
strange to say is very

01:43:28.720 --> 01:43:30.560
much mirrored in

01:43:30.560 --> 01:43:31.700
Nusairi

01:43:31.700 --> 01:43:33.060
which is

01:43:34.980 --> 01:43:36.820
well I suppose better known as

01:43:36.820 --> 01:43:38.600
the Alawai sect that was

01:43:38.600 --> 01:43:40.080
in Syria

01:43:40.080 --> 01:43:42.240
but since Syria and up into

01:43:42.240 --> 01:43:44.040
Turkey there's a you know

01:43:44.040 --> 01:43:46.040
there's a sect of belief

01:43:46.040 --> 01:43:47.460
that is Nusairi

01:43:48.040 --> 01:43:50.220
and it's very similar

01:43:50.220 --> 01:43:52.600
to what was

01:43:54.160 --> 01:43:55.960
manifest amongst the

01:43:55.960 --> 01:43:58.360
cathars and

01:43:58.360 --> 01:44:00.100
there's a lovely

01:44:00.100 --> 01:44:02.000
Nusairi prayer

01:44:02.000 --> 01:44:03.300
which is about

01:44:06.700 --> 01:44:08.080
deliverers from these

01:44:08.080 --> 01:44:09.680
human forms and

01:44:09.680 --> 01:44:11.660
reclothers in light among

01:44:11.660 --> 01:44:12.340
the stars

01:44:13.580 --> 01:44:14.260
and

01:44:15.400 --> 01:44:17.500
it's about I suppose it's a

01:44:17.900 --> 01:44:20.200
mindset that contemplates the possibility

01:44:20.200 --> 01:44:22.060
that all of this is just all of this

01:44:22.060 --> 01:44:23.880
and that we are

01:44:23.880 --> 01:44:24.860
immortal

01:44:26.080 --> 01:44:27.400
beings of light

01:44:28.300 --> 01:44:29.960
that we are of the

01:44:29.960 --> 01:44:31.720
Sunyata the void the

01:44:31.720 --> 01:44:33.820
ineffable you know

01:44:33.820 --> 01:44:35.800
sons and daughters of the most high

01:44:35.800 --> 01:44:37.720
whatever language you want to use to try

01:44:37.720 --> 01:44:39.860
and encapsulate the thought

01:44:39.860 --> 01:44:41.880
you know there's a

01:44:41.880 --> 01:44:43.580
whether you ever become

01:44:43.580 --> 01:44:45.640
warrior or whether you ever

01:44:45.640 --> 01:44:47.920
you know live the ascetic

01:44:47.920 --> 01:44:49.780
life and grow

01:44:49.780 --> 01:44:51.720
your own food and you know bring

01:44:51.720 --> 01:44:53.740
down a caribou and provide for your children

01:44:53.740 --> 01:44:55.760
with the strength of your back

01:44:57.420 --> 01:44:59.500
ultimately we are brief

01:45:00.640 --> 01:45:01.740
manifestations of

01:45:01.740 --> 01:45:03.960
matter islands of matter

01:45:03.960 --> 01:45:06.080
in an ocean an infinite ocean

01:45:06.080 --> 01:45:06.600
of

01:45:08.140 --> 01:45:09.100
spirit mind

01:45:10.180 --> 01:45:11.380
really and so

01:45:12.060 --> 01:45:13.980
this I sometimes think that

01:45:13.980 --> 01:45:15.240
where we are now is like a

01:45:15.240 --> 01:45:16.560
an escape room

01:45:17.780 --> 01:45:19.580
you know those things where you pay to go in

01:45:19.580 --> 01:45:21.740
and you get shut in and you have to solve

01:45:21.740 --> 01:45:23.440
a series of questions

01:45:23.440 --> 01:45:25.860
or riddles or challenges and then you get

01:45:25.860 --> 01:45:28.060
out yeah I think

01:45:28.060 --> 01:45:29.900
it's a I think there's that's another

01:45:31.100 --> 01:45:31.580
possibly

01:45:31.580 --> 01:45:33.600
slightly helpful way of contemplating

01:45:33.600 --> 01:45:35.660
what we're experiencing that

01:45:35.660 --> 01:45:37.600
you know you're going to get out of this

01:45:37.600 --> 01:45:39.420
whether you believe in

01:45:39.420 --> 01:45:41.380
whatever you believe you know

01:45:41.380 --> 01:45:42.920
even if even the most

01:45:43.660 --> 01:45:45.460
you know convinced

01:45:46.300 --> 01:45:47.820
atheist thinks you're

01:45:47.820 --> 01:45:49.620
going to get out of here

01:45:50.340 --> 01:45:51.760
even if it's into nothing

01:45:51.760 --> 01:45:53.180
in the case of an atheist

01:45:53.980 --> 01:45:55.580
but everyone thinks

01:45:55.580 --> 01:45:56.900
that this is temporary

01:45:57.580 --> 01:45:59.160
and the faithful in whatever

01:45:59.160 --> 01:46:01.480
whether they be Buddhist or Christian

01:46:01.480 --> 01:46:02.120
or whatever

01:46:02.120 --> 01:46:04.680
they believe they're going to get out of this

01:46:04.680 --> 01:46:06.460
and so you know

01:46:06.460 --> 01:46:09.140
delivers from these human forms and reclothers

01:46:09.140 --> 01:46:11.000
in light among the stars you know it's like

01:46:11.720 --> 01:46:12.240
yeah

01:46:13.800 --> 01:46:15.060
yeah I like

01:46:15.060 --> 01:46:16.740
that I like that

01:46:16.740 --> 01:46:19.040
I think we'll end on that thought actually that's a good one Neil

01:46:20.000 --> 01:46:20.840
thank you

01:46:20.840 --> 01:46:22.280
good fun talking to you James

01:46:22.280 --> 01:46:24.940
that was very interesting

01:46:24.940 --> 01:46:25.660
I'm glad

01:46:25.660 --> 01:46:28.540
I'm going to look up apophatic theology

01:46:29.680 --> 01:46:30.620
oh well

01:46:30.620 --> 01:46:32.460
you'll find it enriching

01:46:32.460 --> 01:46:34.580
is there any

01:46:35.600 --> 01:46:37.020
book I need to read about this

01:46:38.120 --> 01:46:39.380
oh gosh

01:46:39.380 --> 01:46:40.820
well the

01:46:41.640 --> 01:46:43.080
the works of

01:46:43.660 --> 01:46:45.600
the individual who is called

01:46:45.600 --> 01:46:47.660
pseudo Dionysius

01:46:47.660 --> 01:46:48.940
the Areopagite are there

01:46:48.940 --> 01:46:50.480
there are a series of books

01:46:50.480 --> 01:46:53.300
you just love saying pseudo Dionysius

01:46:53.300 --> 01:46:54.440
the Areopagite

01:46:55.300 --> 01:46:57.320
I also I'm very taken with

01:46:57.320 --> 01:46:59.300
I'm very taken with the teaching of another

01:46:59.300 --> 01:47:00.420
heretic really the

01:47:01.060 --> 01:47:03.380
arguably the original heretic who's Pelagius

01:47:03.380 --> 01:47:05.140
who bumped heads

01:47:05.140 --> 01:47:05.640
with

01:47:07.060 --> 01:47:08.240
Augustine of Hippo

01:47:09.040 --> 01:47:09.740
in the

01:47:09.740 --> 01:47:11.980
in the 300s

01:47:11.980 --> 01:47:14.020
and Pelagius was a layman

01:47:14.020 --> 01:47:15.700
a lay preacher if anything

01:47:15.700 --> 01:47:17.320
and he

01:47:18.060 --> 01:47:20.240
Augustine was determined about

01:47:20.240 --> 01:47:22.000
the fallen nature of man

01:47:22.680 --> 01:47:24.340
that we are hopeless

01:47:24.340 --> 01:47:25.860
fallen creatures

01:47:25.860 --> 01:47:28.140
and that our only hope of

01:47:28.140 --> 01:47:30.000
salvation comes through the church

01:47:30.740 --> 01:47:31.340
priests

01:47:32.540 --> 01:47:33.740
confession, absolution

01:47:33.740 --> 01:47:35.340
and so on and so on

01:47:35.340 --> 01:47:38.300
but Pelagius said no no no no that's a cop

01:47:38.300 --> 01:47:40.240
out we're all responsible

01:47:40.240 --> 01:47:41.840
for our own

01:47:41.840 --> 01:47:44.000
doings and it's

01:47:44.000 --> 01:47:46.320
possible to aspire to live a life as close

01:47:46.320 --> 01:47:48.100
to that of Jesus as you possibly can

01:47:48.100 --> 01:47:49.340
you're never going to be Jesus

01:47:49.340 --> 01:47:50.720
you're never going to be that good

01:47:50.720 --> 01:47:53.820
but that's the model and you don't need

01:47:53.820 --> 01:47:55.040
intercession

01:47:55.040 --> 01:47:57.420
and I like Pelagius

01:47:57.420 --> 01:47:58.800
if I'm anything

01:47:58.800 --> 01:48:00.780
in the Christian realm

01:48:00.780 --> 01:48:03.480
I'm more in that realm

01:48:03.480 --> 01:48:05.020
I'm more in that direction

01:48:05.840 --> 01:48:06.520
Pelagius

01:48:06.520 --> 01:48:09.640
yes I have heard of the

01:48:09.640 --> 01:48:10.380
of the

01:48:11.720 --> 01:48:13.080
Pelagian heresy

01:48:13.860 --> 01:48:14.580
yeah exactly

01:48:14.580 --> 01:48:17.440
so that would make sense

01:48:17.440 --> 01:48:19.320
yes it's all those people who say that

01:48:20.380 --> 01:48:22.180
good works make no difference

01:48:22.180 --> 01:48:23.080
you're already saved

01:48:23.080 --> 01:48:24.060
through

01:48:24.580 --> 01:48:26.160
the intercession of Jesus

01:48:26.160 --> 01:48:28.120
and stuff and yeah

01:48:28.120 --> 01:48:31.060
in fact that's one of the topics that causes

01:48:32.220 --> 01:48:32.860
most

01:48:32.860 --> 01:48:34.760
dissent I think among Christians

01:48:34.760 --> 01:48:36.220
because I must say

01:48:36.220 --> 01:48:37.040
I

01:48:38.480 --> 01:48:40.040
tend towards your

01:48:40.920 --> 01:48:42.100
position that

01:48:45.000 --> 01:48:45.480
well

01:48:45.480 --> 01:48:46.400
and it's not enough

01:48:46.400 --> 01:48:47.120
that one is

01:48:48.140 --> 01:48:49.100
saved through

01:48:49.920 --> 01:48:51.280
Christ and through

01:48:51.960 --> 01:48:54.500
the church you've got to put your back into it

01:48:54.500 --> 01:48:56.020
I think it's more complicated than that

01:48:56.020 --> 01:48:56.220
yeah

01:48:58.540 --> 01:48:59.800
yeah it's the ultimate

01:48:59.800 --> 01:49:02.480
rabbit hole I think Christianity which is why it's so endlessly fascinating

01:49:03.600 --> 01:49:04.560
step 100

01:49:04.560 --> 01:49:05.680
on the staircase of

01:49:06.260 --> 01:49:07.240
disbelief it is

01:49:08.640 --> 01:49:10.100
I've got to get him on

01:49:10.100 --> 01:49:12.440
sometime it's Neil Kramer isn't

01:49:12.920 --> 01:49:14.020
that's right I couldn't

01:49:14.020 --> 01:49:16.000
swear to his first name funnily enough but yeah

01:49:16.500 --> 01:49:18.420
is it Mark I can't remember

01:49:18.420 --> 01:49:20.360
I don't know I thought it was Neil but I don't know

01:49:20.360 --> 01:49:20.880
anyway

01:49:22.620 --> 01:49:24.140
oh I see well I suppose

01:49:24.140 --> 01:49:25.640
you're called Neil so maybe it

01:49:26.160 --> 01:49:27.480
one has a blind spot

01:49:28.900 --> 01:49:29.780
one among nine

01:49:29.780 --> 01:49:31.380
I think he might even be any

01:49:31.880 --> 01:49:32.320
anyway

01:49:33.980 --> 01:49:34.420
Neil

01:49:35.600 --> 01:49:37.400
where can we

01:49:37.400 --> 01:49:38.620
where can we find you

01:49:38.620 --> 01:49:40.840
clearly we can find you at GB news still

01:49:42.160 --> 01:49:43.240
yeah absolutely

01:49:44.580 --> 01:49:46.640
I am the coast guy

01:49:47.230 --> 01:49:49.180
is my handle on X

01:49:49.180 --> 01:49:51.080
I have my own channel

01:49:51.080 --> 01:49:53.040
on YouTube and rumble and

01:49:53.040 --> 01:49:54.540
TikTok and all of that

01:49:56.020 --> 01:49:56.820
so I

01:49:57.150 --> 01:49:59.360
do my own content I interview

01:49:59.360 --> 01:50:01.460
my own choice of people and I do my

01:50:01.460 --> 01:50:03.340
own monologues and there's also

01:50:03.340 --> 01:50:05.620
lots of history there because really my heart lies

01:50:05.620 --> 01:50:07.540
in you know history

01:50:07.540 --> 01:50:09.660
books and so there's plenty of

01:50:09.660 --> 01:50:11.320
my most recent book is

01:50:12.280 --> 01:50:13.600
hauntings a book of ghosts

01:50:13.600 --> 01:50:15.500
and where to find them which is about

01:50:15.500 --> 01:50:17.640
ghosts but it's also really addressing

01:50:17.640 --> 01:50:19.800
some of the you know asking

01:50:19.800 --> 01:50:21.660
some of the questions about you know

01:50:22.500 --> 01:50:23.500
what's it all about

01:50:24.240 --> 01:50:25.680
have you seen a guest

01:50:26.520 --> 01:50:27.000
not

01:50:27.620 --> 01:50:29.680
not in the classic sense

01:50:29.680 --> 01:50:31.540
but I have and they're detailed in the

01:50:31.540 --> 01:50:33.480
book I've had some you know

01:50:33.480 --> 01:50:34.100
the

01:50:35.240 --> 01:50:36.520
some of that has passed

01:50:36.520 --> 01:50:39.640
has brushed past me like a stranger in a crowd

01:50:42.540 --> 01:50:43.040
right

01:50:43.820 --> 01:50:45.480
but it's there in the book that's my most

01:50:45.480 --> 01:50:47.180
recent book I've got another book in the hands

01:50:47.180 --> 01:50:49.260
of my publisher at the moment and that's

01:50:49.260 --> 01:50:51.380
just the process begun again

01:50:51.380 --> 01:50:52.660
to getting something out so

01:50:53.290 --> 01:50:55.400
but yes and you're a hard

01:50:55.400 --> 01:50:56.080
working boy

01:50:57.000 --> 01:50:59.260
well I've got a mortgage to service

01:51:01.900 --> 01:51:03.240
my wife keeps on saying

01:51:03.240 --> 01:51:05.220
if we were controlled opposition and had money

01:51:05.220 --> 01:51:07.080
from Qatar she'd have a new kitchen

01:51:07.080 --> 01:51:08.180
and would have an extension

01:51:08.180 --> 01:51:10.420
yeah yeah you're full

01:51:10.420 --> 01:51:11.660
you're full

01:51:12.840 --> 01:51:14.980
it's been great catching up on you

01:51:14.980 --> 01:51:16.960
and I think I might have to have you back on again

01:51:16.960 --> 01:51:18.600
when I've read your ghost book and

01:51:19.080 --> 01:51:20.820
and find one else

01:51:20.820 --> 01:51:22.480
I love the

01:51:24.400 --> 01:51:25.520
conversations we've had

01:51:25.520 --> 01:51:27.320
not enough too few

01:51:27.320 --> 01:51:29.400
no let's do another one

01:51:29.400 --> 01:51:31.060
definitely been too long

01:51:31.060 --> 01:51:33.760
I'll have you on my channel I'll return the favor

01:51:33.760 --> 01:51:35.320
that would be good

01:51:35.320 --> 01:51:36.600
yeah you don't have to

01:51:36.600 --> 01:51:38.300
if you want

01:51:38.300 --> 01:51:41.140
I can talk about stuff probably

01:51:41.140 --> 01:51:43.960
I believe that I've read that about you

01:51:46.920 --> 01:51:49.120
thank you and everyone else

01:51:49.120 --> 01:51:50.340
if you've enjoyed this podcast

01:51:50.340 --> 01:51:52.220
which obviously you have

01:51:52.220 --> 01:51:54.240
do please keep

01:51:54.980 --> 01:51:55.860
signing up

01:51:55.860 --> 01:51:57.620
supporting me spreading the word

01:51:58.240 --> 01:52:00.120
you can still try and support me on

01:52:00.120 --> 01:52:02.100
substack I think it's a honey trap

01:52:02.100 --> 01:52:03.780
I don't trust their intentions

01:52:03.780 --> 01:52:04.940
but try

01:52:04.940 --> 01:52:06.380
or go to my website

01:52:07.220 --> 01:52:08.580
jamesdellingpole.co.uk

01:52:09.280 --> 01:52:11.780
and I think you'll soon find a way of

01:52:11.780 --> 01:52:13.880
being able to fund me directly

01:52:13.880 --> 01:52:15.660
instead of going through the other places

01:52:16.240 --> 01:52:17.000
buy me a coffee

01:52:17.000 --> 01:52:20.140
and thank you again Neil

01:52:20.140 --> 01:52:21.520
thank you

01:52:21.520 --> 01:52:23.020
and let me send me a link

01:52:23.020 --> 01:52:25.000
so I can find this as soon as possible

01:52:25.660 --> 01:52:26.800
oh I'll do that