WEBVTT 00:00.110 --> 00:05.630 Remember those heady days of early January, 2026, when we could still laugh about America 00:05.630 --> 00:06.770 trying to take over the world? 00:07.490 --> 00:12.770 Well, in case you missed it at the time, some funny Greenlanders made a humorous meme about 00:12.770 --> 00:14.890 American culture taking over Greenland. 00:25.730 --> 00:30.310 Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, hmm. 00:30.970 --> 00:37.270 Well it's a funny meme no doubt, but I hope that you are sheltered enough to not actually 00:37.270 --> 00:43.010 know what it's referring to, namely the fentanyl fold, but once you do discover what that is 00:43.010 --> 00:47.130 a reference to and what is being mocked here, you'll see that this is really not so much 00:47.130 --> 00:48.030 of a laughing matter. 00:48.170 --> 00:54.430 In fact, it's a very sad and tragic reality for far too many people in the United States, 00:54.730 --> 00:56.950 sure, but around the world at this point. 00:57.690 --> 01:02.450 And there are many, many things that we could talk about and address when it comes 01:02.450 --> 01:05.910 to this issue of substance use and abuse and addiction. 01:07.050 --> 01:09.810 And there are many sociopolitical factors to talk about. 01:09.930 --> 01:12.710 There are also even geopolitical factors to talk about. 01:12.830 --> 01:19.410 And if you don't know why the opium wars leading to the century of humiliation has forged 01:19.810 --> 01:26.010 the modern Chinese mindset and maybe part of the modern opium war 2.0 that is now 01:26.010 --> 01:28.450 being folded back in on the United States itself. 01:29.030 --> 01:31.830 Well, there's a lot of reading and catch up to do with that. 01:31.830 --> 01:34.050 But that is not our purpose here today. 01:34.170 --> 01:35.810 Today, this is Solutions Watch. 01:36.110 --> 01:42.930 And I want to talk about addressing this addiction crisis and what someone who is out 01:42.930 --> 01:48.250 there who is either dealing with addiction themselves personally or knows people in 01:48.250 --> 01:52.630 their lives who are dealing with addiction can do to start changing that person's 01:52.630 --> 01:57.970 life. And obviously, these behaviors are destructive and they can get out of 01:57.970 --> 02:01.830 hand. And sometimes it seems completely hopeless. 02:02.570 --> 02:08.570 But there are there are strategies, ideas, there is help out there. 02:08.570 --> 02:11.430 And I want to underline that in today's exploration. 02:11.790 --> 02:14.290 I am no expert on these matters myself. 02:14.290 --> 02:19.470 So instead, I've reached out to some people in my colleague group who are 02:19.470 --> 02:23.970 experts on this subject through personal experience on both sides of the issue. 02:23.970 --> 02:28.290 And we're going to start by talking to Ian Davis, who I know that my regular 02:28.290 --> 02:32.670 viewers will know as, for example, the author of The Technocratic Dark State. 02:32.870 --> 02:38.490 And you will know that from interview 1,993 in which I talked to Ian Davis 02:38.490 --> 02:43.790 about his work on that important book and what it exposes about the nature 02:43.790 --> 02:45.750 of the political reality we're living through. 02:46.210 --> 02:50.130 And I'm sure you'll have seen my previous conversations with Ian on similar 02:51.170 --> 02:54.790 conversational topics, and you'll have seen his journalism and his work on many 02:54.790 --> 02:59.310 outlets, unlimited hangout, various places he's posted his work. 03:00.190 --> 03:05.950 But hopefully you will also remember that Ian Davis, in fact, spent 20 years 03:05.950 --> 03:09.250 as an alcohol and drug addiction counselor in the UK. 03:09.890 --> 03:13.730 And you will remember that because we talked to Ian Davis here on Solutions 03:13.730 --> 03:18.510 Watch four years ago now in an episode on acceptance of and commitment 03:18.510 --> 03:23.450 to freedom, where we talked about Ian Davis's own experience, utilizing 03:23.450 --> 03:27.530 acceptance and commitment therapy as a type of behavioral therapy to get 03:27.530 --> 03:29.950 people to change their life for the better. 03:30.430 --> 03:31.730 And that is an important conversation. 03:31.910 --> 03:34.030 I hope you will go back and revisit it if you need to. 03:34.670 --> 03:38.990 But I wanted to follow up with Ian specifically about drug and alcohol 03:38.990 --> 03:43.130 addiction and addiction generally in order to understand how behavioral 03:43.710 --> 03:47.610 therapy can intersect with the idea of addiction recovery. 03:48.170 --> 03:53.270 And so I started this conversation with the deceptively simple question, 03:53.790 --> 03:54.570 what is addiction? 03:56.210 --> 03:57.650 Well, I mean, I think you need to. 03:57.850 --> 04:02.290 So I might say, I mean, people will have a different definition of addiction. 04:02.790 --> 04:05.190 Some people consider it to be a disease. 04:06.030 --> 04:10.050 And some people consider it to be a self-harming behavior. 04:11.610 --> 04:15.910 I personally, I fall on the self-harming behavior side of it. 04:15.910 --> 04:20.310 So I would say that addiction is a repetitive self-harming behavior 04:20.310 --> 04:27.050 that is driven by a variety of factors, emotional, psychological 04:27.750 --> 04:32.750 and physical, physical dependency dependencies 04:33.850 --> 04:36.910 cause that cause that repetitive self-harming behavior 04:37.670 --> 04:40.470 or lead to that repetitive self-harming behavior. 04:41.350 --> 04:44.230 But other people would say it was a disease that you 04:44.230 --> 04:49.030 that you suffer from and there are various different models of treatment 04:49.030 --> 04:53.650 based around those different kind of varying ideas about what addiction is. 04:55.090 --> 04:56.670 And it and it doesn't matter. 04:56.810 --> 04:59.870 One thing I would stress and one thing that we used to say 04:59.870 --> 05:05.110 when we were working with clients is it doesn't matter what works for you. 05:05.290 --> 05:07.370 All that matter is that it works for you. 05:08.070 --> 05:13.090 So if you if you want to go down, I mean, the famous kind of 05:13.610 --> 05:19.430 disease model would be the 12 step programs. 05:19.730 --> 05:23.630 So the 12 step programs are very much based on the notion that you have a disease 05:23.630 --> 05:25.370 that you have that you can't change. 05:25.590 --> 05:29.550 Therefore, you try to try to work with it and defeat it. 05:29.770 --> 05:34.410 Or the behavioral change model, which was the bump model that I personally preferred 05:35.310 --> 05:38.950 purely because it appeared to me to be more affected with the clients 05:38.950 --> 05:44.750 that I work with is more about taking control of underlying behaviors. 05:45.470 --> 05:47.890 But the reason that we have the problem 05:48.630 --> 05:53.990 so much in countries like the UK and there is such a vast unmet need 05:54.950 --> 05:59.830 is a because obviously the numbers of people outstrips the availability of services. 06:00.550 --> 06:02.910 But but that that people have. 06:04.550 --> 06:10.990 You know, there are so much unmet need around other things, such as mental health, 06:11.430 --> 06:17.110 such as emotional well being, such as, you know, 06:18.050 --> 06:21.930 things like poverty, things things that drive people towards 06:23.290 --> 06:29.470 situations where they can find themselves moving towards these addictive behaviors. 06:30.550 --> 06:36.630 And and very much the the the idea of, you know, for the in the services that I work with, 06:36.970 --> 06:43.490 that I work within was that that we're talking about what we might call problematic behaviors. 06:43.910 --> 06:50.390 So that is a it's a problem to the individual, potentially lethal to the to the individual. 06:50.790 --> 06:55.850 But it's also a societal problem because of the knock on affective people, 06:56.730 --> 07:03.050 you know, often committing crime in order to pay for their dependency, whatever it might be. 07:03.810 --> 07:06.190 You know, and I think, you know, there's so much 07:06.930 --> 07:12.150 that is said about addiction in terms when people talk about addiction in the UK. 07:12.470 --> 07:17.010 It's often they're talking about the use of illicit substances, 07:17.430 --> 07:20.010 but we can be addicted to so many things 07:20.010 --> 07:24.550 that a lot of our clients are addicted to prescribed medication. 07:25.390 --> 07:31.450 A lot of people that were initially on illicit or illegal substances 07:31.450 --> 07:36.550 have then moved on to things like methadone, which is a which is prescribed 07:36.550 --> 07:40.730 as an official official substance that then addicted to that. 07:41.790 --> 07:45.210 You know, alcohol is freely available and is legal. 07:45.810 --> 07:49.970 The big I would say that probably the biggest single client base 07:49.970 --> 07:54.110 one, not probably definitely the biggest single client group was 07:54.110 --> 07:59.050 that I work with were facing addiction issues with alcohol. 07:59.810 --> 08:02.850 So it's not just a there's no one size fits all. 08:02.970 --> 08:05.230 It's not a black and white situation. 08:05.770 --> 08:10.910 But it but it is a it's and it remains a vast unmet need. 08:12.850 --> 08:19.670 Well, as you say, the we can treat this either as a self harming behavior 08:19.670 --> 08:24.370 or as a disease, and there are approaches that are appropriate for both of those 08:24.370 --> 08:30.490 those outlooks. But as you say, you prefer to treat it as a case of self harm. 08:30.770 --> 08:34.630 How does that inform the types of strategies that you would use 08:34.630 --> 08:36.830 to help someone recover from their addiction? 08:38.490 --> 08:42.430 So first and foremost, obviously, you have to address any physical need. 08:42.830 --> 08:47.750 So that means detox of some sort, if that's present. 08:48.510 --> 08:51.370 And then you need to start talking about, I mean, 08:52.650 --> 08:57.670 so let's if we take the 12 step approach, which is the disease model, 08:58.220 --> 09:01.790 it is very much about focusing on the things that you can change. 09:02.190 --> 09:06.310 So you have there's an there's an acceptance that you can't change the disease. 09:06.570 --> 09:09.650 You are you are you are suffering from a disease. 09:10.250 --> 09:14.710 Therefore, you know, I mean, and 12 steps is often 12 step pro not all, 09:14.710 --> 09:17.750 but nearly all 12 step programs are based around faith. 09:18.510 --> 09:21.190 So what can you use to overcome 09:22.690 --> 09:24.510 the problems that you've got? 09:25.030 --> 09:28.570 And often, you know, you can turn to your faith, rely upon your faith 09:28.570 --> 09:32.190 and what you what you get from your faith that will enable you 09:32.190 --> 09:37.430 to address the difficulties that are around your disease, that your disease causes. 09:38.590 --> 09:42.530 The behavioral model suggests that that 09:42.530 --> 09:47.410 that the the addiction is driven by your behavior. 09:47.970 --> 09:52.430 So therefore, you need to address your behavior in order to tackle 09:52.430 --> 09:57.050 the addiction, which is a slight a slightly slightly different approach. 09:57.730 --> 10:04.230 Now, so the thing is, you focus on with I used a used a lot of talking therapy. 10:04.230 --> 10:09.090 So now we so we've got you've got the additional the the physical component, 10:09.090 --> 10:13.690 which you've hopefully addressed with the usually with support of medical services. 10:14.310 --> 10:17.770 The rehab component, which is the which is the 10:19.290 --> 10:22.570 initial kind of intensive work that you do. 10:22.890 --> 10:25.630 And then you move into the into the longer term support. 10:25.850 --> 10:30.170 So during the rehab part of that of that process, 10:30.170 --> 10:35.690 which is where the services that I worked in would come into it more. 10:36.530 --> 10:40.870 Um, what you what you would try to do is work with the clients to identify 10:40.870 --> 10:45.850 the problem that the problematic behaviors that are causing their addiction. 10:45.990 --> 10:51.250 So obviously, the problematic behavior might be the repetitive use 10:51.250 --> 10:53.450 of the large amount of alcohol, for example. 10:55.010 --> 11:01.030 But in order for them to be able to for an individual to buy alcohol 11:01.030 --> 11:04.970 or to drink alcohol, there are a whole set of behaviors 11:05.770 --> 11:09.290 individual behaviors that that are also necessary. 11:09.690 --> 11:15.230 So, for example, stepping out of your front door to to go to the off license 11:15.230 --> 11:19.810 or the pub, you know, getting in your car to drive to the pub, 11:20.190 --> 11:24.750 getting the money, you know, setting aside a certain amount of your money 11:24.750 --> 11:29.230 for your for your substance, all these all these kind of behaviors. 11:29.630 --> 11:32.550 So what we would say is, well, if you if your intention, 11:32.550 --> 11:36.750 if what is important to you, and that's a very important thing 11:36.750 --> 11:39.930 about being honest with yourself about what is important to you, 11:40.570 --> 11:47.230 if what is important to you is is not being subjected to essentially 11:47.230 --> 11:54.150 self-imposed, self-harming control based on your your own your own behavior. 11:54.550 --> 11:58.470 Then if you break down your behavior into its constituent parts 11:58.470 --> 12:01.830 that lead to the key problematic behavior, 12:02.550 --> 12:06.190 at any point along that pathway of those little behaviors, 12:06.710 --> 12:10.070 you know, putting it even if it's putting your coat on to walk out of the door. 12:10.490 --> 12:14.790 If you if that behavior of putting your coat on, that is an opportunity 12:15.570 --> 12:19.230 to intervene for you to intervene at that point 12:19.850 --> 12:25.010 in your behavioral pathway towards the thing that is leading you away 12:25.010 --> 12:27.090 from something that is important to you. 12:27.610 --> 12:33.270 So so each one of so what the therapies that the talking therapies 12:33.270 --> 12:37.370 that I worked with predominantly were focused on getting the clients 12:37.370 --> 12:42.970 to notice their behavior, because so much of our behavior is automatic. 12:43.590 --> 12:47.550 I mean, who I'd ask anybody watching this or listening to this now, 12:48.190 --> 12:51.350 who among us notice is putting our coat on to walk out the door? 12:51.990 --> 12:54.550 You know, we just go and put it on and walk out the door. 12:54.550 --> 12:59.010 We don't actively think about putting our coat on to walk out the door. 12:59.950 --> 13:04.810 You know, so so if we need to notice those behaviors, 13:04.830 --> 13:09.790 so this is all about taking self-inventory, about being aware of your own 13:10.410 --> 13:14.110 your own behaviors and at some point down the line, 13:14.130 --> 13:16.530 you might address the drivers for those behaviors. 13:16.550 --> 13:21.310 But what really matters first is noticing the steps along the path 13:21.310 --> 13:24.070 that lead you towards in this case of self-harming 13:24.070 --> 13:26.230 and potentially destructive behavior. 13:26.790 --> 13:30.770 And if you can intervene in those moments, then you've got an opportunity 13:30.770 --> 13:34.210 to take control of that behavior, because. 13:35.230 --> 13:37.650 Almost by definition, if you've got an addiction, 13:37.690 --> 13:39.610 you are not in control of your behavior. 13:40.570 --> 13:44.010 So it's all about giving people the tools 13:44.010 --> 13:50.350 and the methods that they can use to take control of their own behavior. 13:51.530 --> 13:56.630 And that almost doesn't need doesn't require that you actually address 13:56.630 --> 14:00.790 the underlying drivers of that behavior that you can do that. 14:00.910 --> 14:04.070 You can do that further down the recovery road, if you wish. 14:04.530 --> 14:09.610 But what really matters is grabbing control of your behavior now, right now. 14:09.830 --> 14:14.330 And that's that's a key thing that is emphasized with behavioral talking 14:14.330 --> 14:18.350 therapies and behavioral change therapy and acceptance and commitment therapy. 14:18.910 --> 14:21.990 That everything that that you can control, 14:22.070 --> 14:24.970 you can only control it now, right now. 14:25.290 --> 14:28.950 So you have to notice what is happening to you right now. 14:29.530 --> 14:32.270 Then you then you can control it in that moment. 14:33.130 --> 14:39.810 Later on, you can perhaps look at why, why you're doing what you're doing. 14:40.990 --> 14:43.930 You know, what you say makes sense at such a gut intuitive level. 14:43.930 --> 14:46.150 I'm not personally drug or alcohol addicted, 14:46.150 --> 14:50.610 but I understand that everything that we do is preceded by various preparatory 14:50.610 --> 14:53.670 actions that generally go unnoticed by ourselves. 14:53.890 --> 14:56.810 But if you stop and think about them, there is the chance for a pattern 14:56.810 --> 15:01.110 interruption that could stop that process in the cascade towards that behavior. 15:01.550 --> 15:06.230 And it puts me in mind of almost every smoker that I have ever talked to 15:06.230 --> 15:09.810 who has successfully quit smoking has talked about the most difficult part 15:09.810 --> 15:14.590 about quitting smoking was finding something to do to replace 15:15.070 --> 15:18.490 that physical action of taking the cigarette out after a meal 15:18.490 --> 15:21.650 and nor it does, you know, whatever appointed time they usually have the cigarette. 15:21.710 --> 15:26.150 Just that physical action was the hardest part of them for them to break. 15:26.510 --> 15:29.990 And I've talked to many smokers who said they had to replace 15:29.990 --> 15:33.230 the pack of cigarettes with a pack of gum or something that they could use 15:33.230 --> 15:36.230 to emulate that action, but actually produce a different result. 15:36.490 --> 15:38.830 Is that in line with what you're talking about here? 15:39.390 --> 15:40.410 Yeah, absolutely. 15:41.110 --> 15:44.890 Going back to earlier, we'll talk about something where with behavioral 15:45.410 --> 15:49.070 therapy, it's important to be honest with yourself about what is important to you. 15:49.850 --> 15:54.270 So what so so often people you will ask people when they're certainly 15:54.270 --> 15:58.930 when they're in early stages of recovery, what's important to you? 15:59.230 --> 16:03.130 And they will list a long list of things like, you know, their family, 16:03.410 --> 16:08.150 their their relationship, their children, their pets, their home, their job, 16:08.150 --> 16:11.890 all these kind of things that they say that are important to them and very 16:11.890 --> 16:17.470 rarely does someone say alcohol or heroin or cocaine. 16:17.690 --> 16:19.350 They never say that's important to them. 16:20.230 --> 16:24.050 And one of the first steps that we or rarely say that one of the first 16:24.050 --> 16:30.410 steps that we talked to people about is, but clearly, you know, 16:30.430 --> 16:36.130 your use of this thing, whatever it might be, is dominated your life 16:36.130 --> 16:41.330 for the last for the last how many, however many years it might have been 16:41.330 --> 16:44.030 or, you know, however long it might have been. 16:44.490 --> 16:46.170 So is that not important to you? 16:46.990 --> 16:48.890 And I think that it's that kind of honesty. 16:49.010 --> 16:52.950 And often, often people find that very difficult to confront. 16:52.950 --> 16:56.770 And it is probably one of the the highest risk moments, I think, 16:56.830 --> 17:01.150 in anybody's kind of recovery to actually because because people 17:01.150 --> 17:04.770 don't take substances just because they're dependent on them. 17:05.530 --> 17:08.510 People take substances because they get something from them. 17:09.230 --> 17:15.550 So at some point you need to you need to tackle what it is that they get from it. 17:16.790 --> 17:21.190 But replacing that, therefore, if you say, you know, what's really important 17:21.190 --> 17:26.170 to me is rebuilding relationships with my family, for example. 17:26.930 --> 17:29.510 OK, fine. That's really important to you. 17:29.550 --> 17:33.530 But how do you get to do that in that moment where you when you 17:33.530 --> 17:39.390 are thinking about having a drink or, you know, using a substance? 17:40.150 --> 17:44.110 Is it really important to you in that moment that you rebuild 17:44.110 --> 17:45.670 relationships with your family? 17:46.030 --> 17:48.830 If it is, why would you why would you take the substance? 17:49.610 --> 17:53.370 So if you're going to replace that use with something else. 17:54.930 --> 17:57.450 That has to be practical. 17:57.910 --> 18:02.190 That that has to serve some sort of beneficial purpose for you, 18:02.190 --> 18:07.130 because clearly the substance served some sort of, you know, it might be 18:07.130 --> 18:09.590 deleterious in the in the long effect. 18:09.750 --> 18:13.990 But in the moment, there's a that serve some sort of purpose for you. 18:14.130 --> 18:17.910 So what how else are you going to manage whatever this situation 18:18.510 --> 18:20.090 where you need this substance? 18:20.430 --> 18:21.250 What else are you going to do? 18:21.630 --> 18:26.450 So often things like, you know, people might say, well, I quite enjoy 18:26.450 --> 18:32.410 art, or I quite enjoy sport, or I quite enjoy something else, 18:32.550 --> 18:35.010 or I quite I quite enjoy listening to music. 18:35.590 --> 18:38.250 So OK, can you repurpose that? 18:38.550 --> 18:44.310 Can you repurpose that thing that you enjoy, that thing that you like, 18:44.530 --> 18:47.690 that thing that you value, that you get something out of? 18:48.010 --> 18:51.490 Can you repurpose that instead of using 18:52.350 --> 18:55.070 a substance or drinking or whatever it might be? 18:55.570 --> 18:59.530 So quite often, yeah, sure, you're using you're using these replacement 19:00.670 --> 19:08.210 replacement behaviors to to almost serve the same purpose 19:09.250 --> 19:11.910 in the short term as the substance. 19:12.230 --> 19:18.010 But the problem with that is you can then become reliant on that behavior. 19:18.090 --> 19:21.810 And any behavior which you do to excess can be problematic. 19:22.550 --> 19:25.670 So it's important to also address 19:26.890 --> 19:31.630 further down the road to also address the underlying drivers of 19:31.630 --> 19:35.530 of dependency, whatever that whatever they may be. 19:37.470 --> 19:42.410 Again, what you say resonates and it seems just true at an instinctual level. 19:42.410 --> 19:46.510 So let me take what you have the information you've imparted here 19:46.510 --> 19:49.990 and see if I can make a hypothesis that in your decades of experience, 19:49.990 --> 19:54.970 you found that the people who were most honest with themselves 19:54.970 --> 19:58.250 about their behaviors, why they are engaged in those behaviors 19:58.830 --> 20:02.490 and why they want to change those behaviors were the ones who were most 20:02.490 --> 20:04.750 often successful in actually kicking the addiction. 20:05.390 --> 20:06.850 Yeah, no, absolutely. 20:07.610 --> 20:10.690 And I would also say those that are most determined 20:10.690 --> 20:13.730 because the failure rate is quite high. 20:15.130 --> 20:18.130 You know, I worked in a service 20:18.890 --> 20:24.450 where we had a positive outcome rate of about 30 percent. 20:25.110 --> 20:29.530 And that was off the charts for success rate. 20:30.690 --> 20:35.230 So the people who succeed are the people who are committed, determined 20:35.230 --> 20:37.070 and don't give up as well. 20:37.990 --> 20:40.370 So they because often it's people will try 20:41.180 --> 20:44.450 a few times before they before they succeed. 20:44.830 --> 20:46.730 But the fact is that they keep trying. 20:46.730 --> 20:48.430 They keep trying to succeed. 20:49.110 --> 20:53.170 And ultimately, absolutely, the honesty with yourself 20:54.030 --> 20:57.890 is essential because you're not you're not. 20:58.090 --> 21:00.330 I mean, and I know one thing that I have to say to people 21:00.830 --> 21:02.670 that perhaps never had an addiction. 21:03.110 --> 21:06.850 And one thing that I that I greatly value from the people 21:06.850 --> 21:09.990 that I work with that were the clients that I work with 21:10.530 --> 21:12.230 is that they've gone through processes. 21:13.330 --> 21:15.390 That most of us never go through. 21:15.950 --> 21:22.650 Now, few of us, few of us really look that hard at ourselves. 21:22.910 --> 21:27.210 And part of recovery is to look very hard at yourself. 21:29.510 --> 21:30.270 All right. 21:32.250 --> 21:34.850 We've talked about a number of different aspects of this. 21:34.930 --> 21:37.130 Is there anything else that you would want to say to anyone 21:37.130 --> 21:39.850 who is going through addiction at the moment 21:39.850 --> 21:42.730 and recognizes that they want to change their behaviors? 21:42.830 --> 21:45.030 What would you say to encourage them along the path 21:45.030 --> 21:47.210 towards actually changing their lives? 21:49.730 --> 21:50.770 Seek support. 21:51.230 --> 21:53.650 It's it's not something you can do on your own. 21:53.970 --> 21:56.630 You definitely need support depending 21:57.350 --> 21:58.870 depending on where you live. 21:59.030 --> 22:01.250 There should be support services available. 22:01.930 --> 22:04.230 And they might not be perfect. 22:04.590 --> 22:07.870 They might not be, you know, exactly what you want right now. 22:07.950 --> 22:09.770 But you must have support. 22:09.990 --> 22:14.330 You you you must have people around you that will support you. 22:14.330 --> 22:17.290 And initially, you know, you need people 22:17.290 --> 22:19.310 that have got some kind of appreciation 22:19.310 --> 22:21.310 and understanding of what you are going through. 22:21.690 --> 22:23.930 And that may be family, that may be friends, 22:24.050 --> 22:28.210 but it may also be services that are available to you. 22:28.210 --> 22:29.790 So you must you must have that. 22:30.170 --> 22:35.030 And also, I would say that just as anybody 22:35.570 --> 22:38.850 and I mean anybody, I've I've worked with clients 22:38.850 --> 22:43.530 from every single walk of life and every single demographic 22:43.530 --> 22:45.530 that you could possibly think of. 22:46.010 --> 22:51.750 So just as anybody can become addicted to anything, 22:52.430 --> 22:56.650 so can anybody become clean. 22:58.010 --> 23:00.570 But there's there's no there's no reason 23:00.570 --> 23:03.810 why you won't be able to turn your life around and become clean. 23:05.390 --> 23:09.610 Once again, that was Ian Davis of Ian Davis dot com. 23:09.870 --> 23:11.730 And I hope you will check out his work generally. 23:11.730 --> 23:15.550 But obviously, he also has some important and interesting insights 23:15.550 --> 23:19.790 on this issue of addiction gleaned from two decades of experience 23:19.790 --> 23:23.070 as a qualified drug and alcohol addiction counselor. 23:23.450 --> 23:26.710 And I think there are some important things to note from that story. 23:26.970 --> 23:29.630 And the record that he speaks of speaks for itself, 23:29.630 --> 23:34.590 where his service had something on the order of a 30 percent positive 23:34.590 --> 23:37.570 recovery rate, which, as he says, is almost unheard of 23:37.570 --> 23:41.170 for those types of addiction counseling services in the UK. 23:41.170 --> 23:45.950 So obviously, there is something to the concept of the behavioral therapy 23:45.950 --> 23:50.230 and how people can learn to change those habits, 23:50.510 --> 23:53.510 not learn to recognize and change those habits. 23:53.630 --> 23:56.270 So there's a lot to be gained from those insights. 23:56.390 --> 23:59.870 But the question may be, oh, that's all fine and dandy in theory 23:59.870 --> 24:02.090 and in some form of practice. 24:02.250 --> 24:04.590 But does how does that look like from the inside? 24:04.770 --> 24:09.770 What does it seem for someone who is actually dealing with these issues, 24:09.770 --> 24:12.930 which at the time that people are struggling with drug addiction 24:12.930 --> 24:16.230 can be almost unimaginably overwhelming? 24:16.910 --> 24:21.170 Well, luckily, we don't have to turn very far for answers to that question. 24:21.310 --> 24:25.230 In fact, you could turn back to a previous Solutions Watch guest 24:25.730 --> 24:29.430 who talked about his own experiences with drug and alcohol addiction 24:29.430 --> 24:33.970 and overcoming it in Pick Your Pieces, some thoughts to think about, 24:34.130 --> 24:37.610 which is a book written by, of course, friend of the show, Joseph Plummer, 24:37.610 --> 24:40.650 who, again, you'll remember from that Solutions Watch and other times 24:40.650 --> 24:44.130 that we've talked to him about his work on tragedy and hope and other such things. 24:44.650 --> 24:49.650 But in that book, as we talk about in that Solutions Watch conversation, 24:50.010 --> 24:52.370 we had a couple of years ago, Joseph Plummer describes 24:52.370 --> 24:56.930 how he used self-directed neuroplasticity to rewire his brain 24:56.930 --> 25:01.450 and to change the addictive behaviors that he had and channel them 25:01.450 --> 25:03.910 and transmute them into something productive 25:03.910 --> 25:08.850 and something that has made him into an incredibly productive and sober individual, 25:09.310 --> 25:12.170 which, again, you can hear more about in that particular conversation. 25:12.570 --> 25:14.610 But for the purposes of today's Solutions Watch, 25:14.730 --> 25:19.590 I want to direct you to yet another book-length resource that people can use 25:19.590 --> 25:23.430 if they want to hear how this process of transformation looks like 25:23.430 --> 25:25.090 from somebody who has lived through it. 25:25.370 --> 25:28.510 And in this case, it is a man of my word 25:28.510 --> 25:32.750 how I overcame addiction, depression and mental and physical prisons 25:33.250 --> 25:37.810 by Derek Brose, who, again, you will know not only from his many, many appearances 25:37.810 --> 25:41.790 on Solutions Watch, but from his activism and journalism generally 25:42.290 --> 25:45.330 at the Conscious Resistance Network, at theconsciousresistance.com, 25:45.670 --> 25:48.510 his work for Ryan Christian at The Last American Vagabond, 25:48.610 --> 25:51.410 his work with Whitney Webb and Unlimited Hangout, et cetera. 25:51.830 --> 25:56.450 Obviously, people know about Derek and his various activism and journalism, 25:56.450 --> 25:59.970 but something you may not know about is the subject of this book, 25:59.970 --> 26:05.850 namely Derek Brose's origin story, his struggles in his teenage and youth years 26:06.490 --> 26:10.330 with drug addiction and how he came through 26:10.330 --> 26:13.890 that incredibly humbling experience to come out the other side 26:13.890 --> 26:17.470 as such a motivated and motivating journalist. 26:17.950 --> 26:21.610 So just to give you a hint of this book, let me go through a little bit of 26:21.610 --> 26:25.570 just read the prologue, which starts on November 16, 2005. 26:26.490 --> 26:28.010 Sir, please step out of your vehicle. 26:28.630 --> 26:31.810 The officer's words cut through the air and sent chills down my spine. 26:32.310 --> 26:35.110 Even though I knew why he wanted me to get out of my car, I still asked, 26:35.390 --> 26:36.570 can you tell me why, officer? 26:37.370 --> 26:40.550 He proceeded to inform me that I had numerous warrants out for my arrest. 26:41.070 --> 26:43.770 Again, he politely requested that I exit the vehicle. 26:44.450 --> 26:47.430 I knew there was nothing left to do but open my door and step outside. 26:48.290 --> 26:51.810 While the officer was handcuffing me and placing me in the back of his squad car, 26:52.150 --> 26:55.930 I began to sweat profusely as I recalled everything that had preceded this moment, 26:55.930 --> 26:59.630 the drugs, the sex, the rock and roll, the self harm, the addictions, 26:59.910 --> 27:03.330 the periods of homelessness and my recent plans to begin a new life, 27:03.770 --> 27:05.890 plans that were now crumbling to bits in front of me. 27:06.370 --> 27:07.710 How did I get into this mess? 27:08.530 --> 27:10.030 How had I let this happen? 27:10.510 --> 27:12.970 I wasn't much for praying to God, but at that moment, 27:13.030 --> 27:15.790 I started pleading for someone up there, anyone to help me. 27:16.170 --> 27:18.910 My only hope was that the officer would somehow forget to search 27:18.910 --> 27:20.330 my car before towing it away. 27:20.890 --> 27:22.050 I wasn't so lucky. 27:22.530 --> 27:25.330 The officer opened the front passenger door and immediately went 27:25.330 --> 27:27.870 for the glove compartment where I had stored a pill bottle 27:27.870 --> 27:32.190 with three point grams of crystal methamphetamine plus a scale and baggies. 27:32.610 --> 27:34.210 There was also a bong in the back seat. 27:34.770 --> 27:37.070 Only moments before, as the officer was approaching me, 27:37.370 --> 27:39.790 I thought of stuffing the most incriminating paraphernalia 27:39.790 --> 27:43.010 into my air conditioning vents in a feeble attempt at surviving this encounter. 27:43.290 --> 27:44.870 But I was too nervous to pull it off. 27:45.550 --> 27:48.310 The officer picked up the pill bottle, held it up to his eyes, 27:48.670 --> 27:50.810 shook his head and shot me a look of disapproval. 27:51.370 --> 27:54.770 It was then, at that exact moment that I knew my life was about to 27:54.770 --> 27:56.010 change big time. 27:56.530 --> 27:58.250 I knew I would never see that car again. 27:58.590 --> 28:01.150 I knew I was in the worst legal trouble I'd ever been in. 28:01.370 --> 28:05.010 But what I didn't know was that this was the start of both the worst 28:05.010 --> 28:06.790 and the best days of my life. 28:07.110 --> 28:09.130 This was the beginning of my transformation. 28:10.250 --> 28:13.430 Well, that's the dramatic opening to this memoir 28:13.430 --> 28:17.310 that recounts that period of drug addiction and abuse 28:17.890 --> 28:22.470 and a lot of crazy events that happened in that time frame for Derek, 28:22.470 --> 28:26.770 which ultimately ended up seeing him living for some period at a crack house 28:26.770 --> 28:32.630 and homeless at various times and eventually his story of recovery, 28:32.770 --> 28:36.850 which we eventually know leads to Derek Bros. 28:37.090 --> 28:40.930 as this activist journalist, a dynamo of energy and enthusiasm. 28:40.970 --> 28:43.770 And it was that process of transforming 28:43.770 --> 28:46.650 his addictive behaviors into productive behaviors 28:47.010 --> 28:51.530 that really was the reason why he is out there and doing such good work today. 28:51.530 --> 28:53.710 So it is a fascinating story from that 28:53.710 --> 28:57.570 perspective and with that knowledge in mind, and that's exactly why I wanted to talk 28:57.570 --> 29:02.570 to Derek about his own experience of transformation and how that came about. 29:02.770 --> 29:06.190 And I started by honing in on one phrase in the book 29:06.190 --> 29:12.890 where he has the realization that what he was doing was self harm, 29:13.010 --> 29:16.450 that he was the author of his own pain and self destruction. 29:16.450 --> 29:20.430 And I asked him about whether and how that realization 29:21.030 --> 29:22.890 helped in that process of transformation. 29:24.570 --> 29:27.350 I think that's huge, you know, for me, 29:27.950 --> 29:32.170 coming to realize that as I say in the book and the architect of my own pain, 29:32.470 --> 29:36.010 like that I was had a habit of self sabotaging 29:36.010 --> 29:39.990 and finally recognizing that and seeing that was a big move 29:39.990 --> 29:44.130 because then it led to taking personal responsibility in my life, 29:44.130 --> 29:47.370 which is obviously a big part of my current political philosophy, 29:47.510 --> 29:50.830 volunteerism and the way I see the world today. 29:51.090 --> 29:53.090 And when I was at that point of realizing, OK, 29:53.170 --> 29:56.870 I could be angry at my father for things he did or didn't do 29:56.870 --> 29:59.390 or for the lies he told and the promises he broke. 29:59.590 --> 30:00.730 I could do that forever. 30:00.950 --> 30:01.650 I could blame society. 30:02.010 --> 30:05.950 I could do all these things that sometimes we find ourselves into, 30:06.090 --> 30:07.270 you know, especially when you're on drugs 30:07.270 --> 30:09.230 or you're just dealing with mental health issues. 30:09.370 --> 30:12.850 You can get into this self pity and I definitely went through that. 30:12.850 --> 30:16.750 But when I started to recognize like I'm doing this to myself, 30:16.830 --> 30:18.230 I keep shooting myself in my own foot. 30:18.350 --> 30:20.630 I keep, you know, creating these same scenarios. 30:20.630 --> 30:23.410 And then afterwards I'm like, oh, no, I feel horrible. 30:23.590 --> 30:26.610 Let me take a bunch of drugs and see if that'll if that'll self 30:26.610 --> 30:28.250 Medicaid and numb the pain. 30:29.070 --> 30:32.630 But ultimately, when I understood, I'm doing this to myself, 30:32.770 --> 30:35.910 you know, I had to then take responsibility 30:35.910 --> 30:38.030 and especially because I wasn't happy. 30:38.150 --> 30:40.770 I mean, some people might go through some of the things I went through 30:40.770 --> 30:43.970 and they believe they're happy or maybe genuinely are happy 30:43.970 --> 30:45.810 for a time or fool themselves into that. 30:46.190 --> 30:49.890 But I guess the difference for me is besides a few, you know, 30:50.030 --> 30:53.810 funny, odd, you know, occasionally happy memories in there, 30:54.010 --> 30:56.390 I was not happy and I knew I wasn't happy. 30:56.490 --> 30:59.030 I was already depressed well before I started taking drugs 30:59.030 --> 31:00.890 and drinking and all those sort of things. 31:00.970 --> 31:03.110 So it didn't take me very long to realize like this. 31:03.230 --> 31:04.530 This is not where I want to be. 31:05.270 --> 31:08.170 And then eventually, yeah, to recognize I'm doing this 31:08.170 --> 31:10.030 to myself, I keep setting myself up to fail. 31:10.030 --> 31:14.170 And then I just in the cycle of failure and then anger 31:14.170 --> 31:16.370 and frustration and then taking a bunch of substances 31:16.370 --> 31:17.770 and then confusion and emotions 31:17.770 --> 31:19.190 and just over and over and over. 31:19.370 --> 31:21.850 So I think for me, that's an important piece of the puzzle. 31:22.230 --> 31:25.030 I also think with, you know, the other piece 31:25.030 --> 31:27.770 of what I'm trying to do, you asked like why I wrote the book. 31:28.010 --> 31:30.870 In the bigger picture, I would like to make conversations 31:30.870 --> 31:34.530 around drug addiction and, you know, recovery 31:34.530 --> 31:38.010 for lack of a better term to be an increasingly important part 31:38.010 --> 31:40.470 of my work, my activism and even my journalism 31:40.470 --> 31:41.750 because I do think it's something 31:41.750 --> 31:43.190 that is an underlying conversation 31:43.190 --> 31:45.150 that even in our truth freedom communities, 31:45.350 --> 31:47.850 we sort of, you know, only speak about in hushed tones. 31:48.870 --> 31:52.370 And I want to eventually, you know, have some sort of, 31:52.410 --> 31:54.030 I don't know about program or institution, 31:54.250 --> 31:55.910 maybe a private member association, something 31:56.430 --> 31:58.190 that will probably be named after my father 31:58.190 --> 31:59.650 who was also a drug addict who died 31:59.650 --> 32:01.130 of a drug overdose in 2018. 32:01.930 --> 32:04.890 Some sort of way to think about how to approach 32:04.890 --> 32:06.410 these things because as I say in the book, 32:06.410 --> 32:08.610 I don't think the addiction as a disease model 32:08.610 --> 32:10.090 is sufficient or is helpful. 32:10.530 --> 32:12.230 Obviously I don't think throwing people in prisons 32:12.230 --> 32:13.850 for their drug addictions is the answer. 32:14.770 --> 32:17.190 And part of whatever that program might look like 32:17.190 --> 32:18.790 in the future, I think is really going 32:18.790 --> 32:20.430 to be helping people come to a place 32:20.430 --> 32:22.610 of taking responsibility for their own actions. 32:24.310 --> 32:26.570 You know, it's interesting that you say that 32:26.570 --> 32:29.330 because it seems from the narrative in the book here, 32:29.490 --> 32:31.990 it seems that there was a certain rock bottom 32:31.990 --> 32:33.990 that you reached when living in a crack house 32:33.990 --> 32:35.610 for some period of time and deciding 32:35.610 --> 32:37.410 that you didn't want any part of that anymore 32:37.410 --> 32:38.990 and getting out of there. 32:39.470 --> 32:41.110 But it seems the real rock bottom 32:41.110 --> 32:43.070 or at least the beginning of the true change 32:43.070 --> 32:44.990 took place in Harris County Jail. 32:45.550 --> 32:47.530 And it seems like journaling and reading 32:47.930 --> 32:49.630 were part of the transformative experience 32:49.630 --> 32:51.610 as you started to learn about meditation 32:51.610 --> 32:52.430 and things like that. 32:52.610 --> 32:53.970 Tell us about that transformation, 32:54.550 --> 32:56.230 how it really got kickstarted 32:56.230 --> 32:57.870 and whether it would have been possible 32:57.870 --> 32:58.890 if you hadn't been put in jail. 33:01.010 --> 33:02.550 Yeah, you know, I've asked myself 33:02.550 --> 33:04.110 that plenty of times over the years, 33:04.110 --> 33:08.470 like if for whatever reason my path in this life, 33:08.690 --> 33:11.150 I had to go through that in order to get to here. 33:11.630 --> 33:12.030 I don't know. 33:12.130 --> 33:13.890 And obviously, you know, you can't change the past. 33:14.110 --> 33:15.910 So whatever happened happened 33:15.910 --> 33:17.270 and it's led me to this moment 33:17.270 --> 33:18.390 and I'm grateful for that. 33:18.710 --> 33:22.110 I wish that I could have received the messages 33:22.110 --> 33:24.630 that which I believe were being, you know, shown to me 33:24.630 --> 33:26.190 both by family and friends who were like, 33:26.230 --> 33:26.870 what are you doing? 33:27.010 --> 33:28.950 You're clearly headed down a bad path. 33:29.090 --> 33:30.990 They could see that I was losing a lot of weight 33:30.990 --> 33:32.670 but I just wasn't very healthy. 33:33.090 --> 33:35.470 And then I also tell a story in there 33:35.470 --> 33:37.690 of sort of feeling like I was receiving a message 33:37.690 --> 33:39.550 from a psychedelic experience I had 33:39.550 --> 33:41.110 where that was kind of where I had a vision 33:41.110 --> 33:44.090 of seeing myself homeless and very, very skinny 33:44.090 --> 33:46.630 and just, you know, this potential future for me. 33:46.830 --> 33:49.110 And that did cause me to at least throw away 33:49.110 --> 33:50.750 a bunch of drugs and for a few months 33:50.750 --> 33:52.390 kind of step away from that. 33:52.750 --> 33:55.190 Ultimately though, obviously I got arrested 33:55.190 --> 33:58.230 and I got arrested with possession of crystal meth 33:58.230 --> 34:00.650 because I decided to go try to do another drug deal 34:00.650 --> 34:02.750 which is what I had become accustomed to doing at the time. 34:03.570 --> 34:06.650 And that I think was the rock bottom getting locked up 34:06.650 --> 34:08.870 at least the first time, definitely the second time 34:08.870 --> 34:10.050 when I felt even more alone 34:10.050 --> 34:12.570 and I had even less resources, family and support, 34:12.850 --> 34:13.790 family and friends support. 34:14.370 --> 34:17.150 And I talk about it in the book and just, you know, 34:17.170 --> 34:20.110 I remember it clear as day when I got locked up 34:20.110 --> 34:21.750 and as you said, I was in Harris County jail 34:21.750 --> 34:24.290 in Texas in Houston, but then at the same time 34:24.790 --> 34:26.930 I got my sentence which was sending me 34:26.930 --> 34:29.050 to basically a Texas state prison 34:29.050 --> 34:31.590 where they give you a counselor and they call it a rehab 34:31.590 --> 34:33.070 and the state gets a bunch of money 34:33.070 --> 34:35.690 to say that they're treating people for drug addiction. 34:36.050 --> 34:37.890 But for all intents and purposes, it's a prison, 34:38.330 --> 34:40.530 you know, you can't leave armed guards, razor wire, 34:41.010 --> 34:42.850 they treat you like crap, all that sort of stuff. 34:42.990 --> 34:44.590 And whenever I realized that 34:44.590 --> 34:46.510 there was nothing I could do anymore 34:46.510 --> 34:48.890 that my mom who had been trying to help 34:48.890 --> 34:50.210 was getting in touch with a lawyer 34:50.210 --> 34:51.250 and seeing what she could do, 34:51.350 --> 34:52.990 my girlfriend at the time who was trying to help 34:52.990 --> 34:55.190 that when I recognize that there's nobody 34:55.190 --> 34:56.370 that's going to help me. 34:56.370 --> 34:59.090 I'm in this four walls with these crazy people 34:59.090 --> 35:02.270 and these insane guards and I'm not leaving 35:02.270 --> 35:04.390 until they call my name and say, 35:04.430 --> 35:05.310 bros, you're out of here. 35:05.710 --> 35:08.130 And from that moment when I realized that 35:08.130 --> 35:10.410 it was going to be at least 10 to 11 months 35:10.410 --> 35:11.950 before that was even gonna be possible 35:11.950 --> 35:13.390 and potentially longer. 35:13.930 --> 35:17.570 And that is a very disempowering feeling to go through, 35:17.790 --> 35:19.790 you know, of just sort of realizing like, 35:19.870 --> 35:22.990 wow, my freedom at least in the physical sense 35:22.990 --> 35:24.170 has been stripped from me. 35:24.170 --> 35:26.950 And I could go try to fight a guard if I want. 35:27.070 --> 35:28.490 I could go yell and scream and cry. 35:28.670 --> 35:29.990 I could do all these things 35:29.990 --> 35:31.990 and it won't make a damn of a difference. 35:32.210 --> 35:34.310 I'm not leaving until these people say I am. 35:34.470 --> 35:38.190 And that, yeah, I remember just the weight of that feeling 35:38.190 --> 35:41.470 and that realization, but as I say in the book 35:41.470 --> 35:43.770 that that was also the beginning of me really trying 35:43.770 --> 35:45.690 to starting to find my own personal power. 35:45.970 --> 35:48.230 And cause as I said, they took away my physical freedom 35:48.710 --> 35:51.410 but as anybody who has ever been in prisons 35:51.410 --> 35:54.670 and people much longer than myself have written 35:54.670 --> 35:57.790 over the years and whether that's the prison of the state 35:57.790 --> 36:01.170 or concentration camp or other sort of harrowing events, 36:01.510 --> 36:03.770 they recognize that they can control your body 36:03.770 --> 36:04.870 but they can't control your mind. 36:05.010 --> 36:06.010 They can't control your spirit. 36:06.310 --> 36:08.470 And that's the realization that I started to have 36:08.470 --> 36:10.530 is like, okay, well, I can't physically leave here 36:11.030 --> 36:12.350 until these people say I can, 36:13.090 --> 36:15.070 but I'm still free in my mind 36:15.070 --> 36:17.110 and that there's a lot of power there. 36:17.250 --> 36:20.010 And so I did have a very big spiritual influence 36:20.010 --> 36:21.110 my grandmother at the time 36:21.110 --> 36:24.550 and she started sending me books on like Christian prayer 36:24.550 --> 36:25.490 and then Zen Buddhism. 36:25.830 --> 36:27.670 She was a very kind of eccentric Christian, 36:27.850 --> 36:29.690 you could say esoteric Christian. 36:30.030 --> 36:32.730 And we just sending me things that were at the time 36:32.730 --> 36:34.550 things I wasn't initially open to 36:34.550 --> 36:37.370 because I had been so very much against anything 36:37.890 --> 36:39.990 that I perceived religious or even spiritual 36:39.990 --> 36:42.450 or related to God, but in that space 36:42.450 --> 36:43.910 of really kind of questioning, 36:44.050 --> 36:45.210 well, how the heck did I get here? 36:45.310 --> 36:45.790 What, you know, what, 36:45.830 --> 36:47.350 what have I been doing the last couple of years? 36:47.350 --> 36:49.630 Here I am mad at my father my whole life 36:49.630 --> 36:51.270 for his drug addiction and his time in prison. 36:51.490 --> 36:53.810 And I'm following that same path, you know, 36:53.830 --> 36:56.470 and I realized I needed to do something about it. 36:56.470 --> 37:00.110 So yeah, that was I think the beginning of the rock bottom. 37:00.170 --> 37:02.770 And as I said, even after a year, I did end up going back 37:02.770 --> 37:04.530 and that was probably even a lower low, 37:04.530 --> 37:06.510 but it was that first initial experience 37:06.510 --> 37:08.710 of getting arrested and recognizing that 37:08.710 --> 37:10.510 while my physical body was caged 37:10.510 --> 37:13.050 and not going anywhere until these people said I could, 37:13.170 --> 37:15.090 they still couldn't control my mind 37:15.090 --> 37:17.090 or anything beyond that. 37:18.050 --> 37:19.830 Well, the book is called A Man of My Word. 37:20.090 --> 37:21.710 What does that phrase mean to you? 37:21.810 --> 37:22.350 Why is it important? 37:24.330 --> 37:27.390 It's important to me because as I share in the book, 37:27.570 --> 37:29.950 there were definitely periods of my life 37:29.950 --> 37:33.690 and particularly when I was going through all this chaos 37:33.690 --> 37:35.430 here where I was not a man of my word 37:35.430 --> 37:37.890 and I was treating different people. 37:38.850 --> 37:39.650 You know, I was a liar. 37:39.810 --> 37:40.290 I was a cheater. 37:40.570 --> 37:42.650 I was never a thief, but I was definitely a liar. 37:42.830 --> 37:44.370 I was definitely cheating on all the relationships 37:44.370 --> 37:44.910 I was in. 37:45.250 --> 37:47.050 I was definitely not being honest with myself 37:47.050 --> 37:48.230 or my family and friends. 37:48.530 --> 37:51.450 And I could see firsthand the destruction 37:51.450 --> 37:54.610 that was coming from that, the hurt, the pain, et cetera. 37:54.930 --> 37:56.430 And then as I was kind of sharing earlier 37:56.430 --> 37:59.990 about that cycle of like, okay, well now I hurt somebody 38:00.460 --> 38:02.130 and now I'm all sad or depressed about it. 38:02.190 --> 38:03.530 Well, let me just go take a bunch of drugs 38:03.530 --> 38:04.850 and then that leads to something else 38:04.850 --> 38:06.030 and it just became this cycle. 38:06.610 --> 38:08.890 And so the second time I got locked up, 38:09.190 --> 38:12.230 and I was sent to another safe pee type facility 38:12.870 --> 38:14.370 and I felt even more determined 38:14.370 --> 38:16.990 that I needed to get whatever I missed the first time 38:16.990 --> 38:18.390 because the first time I did 11 months 38:18.390 --> 38:21.190 and I was only out for five months before I got sent back. 38:21.370 --> 38:22.550 And then the second time going back, 38:22.550 --> 38:24.190 I didn't have the support I had. 38:24.250 --> 38:25.730 My girlfriend who had waited the first time 38:25.730 --> 38:26.970 was like, I'm not doing this again. 38:27.410 --> 38:29.070 My mom's like, you're turning into your father, 38:29.230 --> 38:30.110 don't come back home. 38:30.530 --> 38:32.490 And so when I had to go turn myself in, 38:32.650 --> 38:34.570 it was just like, that felt like, wow, 38:34.710 --> 38:36.310 I don't think I've ever felt lower than that. 38:36.510 --> 38:38.350 And so I went into there thinking like, 38:38.450 --> 38:40.230 I need to get whatever I missed last time. 38:40.230 --> 38:42.870 So they had this workbook that they expected you to work 38:42.870 --> 38:45.830 through over the three to six months period 38:45.830 --> 38:47.050 you were gonna be there. 38:47.350 --> 38:48.730 And I think I did it in two weeks 38:48.730 --> 38:50.010 and I remember somebody telling me, 38:50.050 --> 38:51.170 you don't get out any sooner 38:51.170 --> 38:52.530 just for finishing it faster. 38:52.810 --> 38:55.050 But I was seriously like, I just need to, 38:55.250 --> 38:55.790 what did I miss? 38:56.030 --> 38:57.410 What is the missing piece of this puzzle 38:57.410 --> 39:00.270 that I just can't seem to grasp? 39:00.530 --> 39:03.030 And that second time, 39:03.310 --> 39:04.970 this exercise is probably the one thing 39:04.970 --> 39:06.010 I would say that I took away 39:06.010 --> 39:07.450 and it was just a simple thing 39:07.450 --> 39:09.530 of little kind of visualization exercise. 39:09.530 --> 39:10.530 Like, okay, so, 39:10.950 --> 39:12.590 because they're working through all the fact 39:12.590 --> 39:14.130 of like you've been treating people wrong, 39:14.270 --> 39:15.770 you've been having destructive behaviors, 39:15.910 --> 39:16.570 whether it's drugs, 39:16.710 --> 39:17.850 whether it's other criminal behavior, 39:18.130 --> 39:19.510 you probably haven't been living right. 39:19.690 --> 39:21.750 And so you need to reflect on those decisions 39:21.750 --> 39:23.450 and how you got to where you're at now. 39:23.710 --> 39:25.650 And so the final exercise was something like, 39:25.810 --> 39:27.270 you go to the doctor and you find out 39:27.270 --> 39:28.250 you have terminal cancer 39:28.250 --> 39:29.910 and you have six months to live. 39:30.090 --> 39:31.750 Or you think they started out like five years, 39:31.850 --> 39:32.690 you have five years to live, 39:32.770 --> 39:33.510 what would you do with that? 39:33.590 --> 39:35.910 And then you have one year live, six months, et cetera. 39:36.270 --> 39:37.810 And just kind of getting you to really reflect. 39:37.810 --> 39:41.790 And I was trying to take this as genuinely as possible. 39:41.930 --> 39:43.310 Like, okay, like let me think about this. 39:43.410 --> 39:44.770 Like what does matter to me in life? 39:44.890 --> 39:46.750 And what would I do if I found that 39:46.750 --> 39:48.730 I was gonna die next year or six months from now? 39:48.950 --> 39:50.150 And so you work through that 39:50.150 --> 39:51.610 and then eventually you get to the exercise 39:51.610 --> 39:53.450 and you turn the page and it's like a tombstone. 39:53.650 --> 39:55.530 It's like, you know, this morning 39:55.530 --> 39:57.650 at whatever time you were found dead, 39:57.910 --> 39:59.550 you died from cancer. 40:00.030 --> 40:02.070 What five words do you want on your tombstone? 40:02.670 --> 40:04.730 And it didn't take me long to realize 40:04.730 --> 40:06.390 that I wanted a man of my word, 40:06.970 --> 40:09.030 which is obviously the book title now. 40:09.550 --> 40:10.610 And it was because of that 40:10.610 --> 40:13.190 because especially at that point, this is 2007, 40:13.810 --> 40:16.770 I was still not, you know, I was not on drugs anymore 40:16.770 --> 40:17.730 and I was getting sober, 40:17.850 --> 40:20.230 but I still wasn't living the way that I believed 40:20.230 --> 40:23.910 I needed to in a way that also produced happiness 40:23.910 --> 40:26.090 in my life and I was still hurting people. 40:26.190 --> 40:27.490 So it was important to me, 40:27.510 --> 40:28.630 and it still is important to me 40:28.630 --> 40:30.750 to strive to be a man of my word, 40:30.830 --> 40:33.250 to be accountable to myself and to other people 40:33.890 --> 40:36.110 because I know what it feels like to not do that. 40:36.110 --> 40:36.930 And it didn't feel good. 40:37.190 --> 40:37.790 And it didn't, you know, 40:37.810 --> 40:39.410 it wasn't really about trying to impress anybody. 40:39.530 --> 40:41.190 It was like, look, I've lived that life 40:41.190 --> 40:43.250 and I know that that didn't lead me to anywhere 40:43.250 --> 40:46.210 that felt happy or joyful or anything I wanna be. 40:46.350 --> 40:48.290 So maybe I should try doing the other thing. 40:48.510 --> 40:51.950 And so yeah, for me, striving to be a man of my word, 40:52.010 --> 40:53.090 both in my individual life 40:53.090 --> 40:54.170 and then now as a journalist 40:54.170 --> 40:56.910 and everything else I do, it's extremely important. 40:58.570 --> 41:01.690 You know, I find this entire book 41:02.550 --> 41:03.990 really uplifting in a way, 41:03.990 --> 41:06.870 really empowering because I know the sequel. 41:07.430 --> 41:10.070 Like if I only knew this book, it would be one thing 41:10.070 --> 41:12.630 and I'd, okay, here's a story of a man going through this 41:12.630 --> 41:15.430 and finding his way out of addiction, et cetera. 41:15.470 --> 41:18.430 But because I know what you have done since then 41:18.430 --> 41:21.410 and the journalism and activism that you've engaged in. 41:21.930 --> 41:24.290 Now I see and forgive me for, 41:24.650 --> 41:26.450 I mean, I'm on the outside, I don't know you 41:26.450 --> 41:28.850 but it looks to me like what you've done 41:28.850 --> 41:31.230 is taken that hustling mindset 41:31.230 --> 41:34.010 that was part of the allure of the drug world 41:34.570 --> 41:36.730 and transformed that into your activism 41:36.730 --> 41:38.750 and channeled it into journalism 41:38.750 --> 41:42.970 so that now you're hustling and creating these documentaries 41:42.970 --> 41:45.970 and the great reset and doing all of this activism 41:45.970 --> 41:48.050 and running for Houston mayor 41:48.050 --> 41:50.210 and all of these things that you're involved in. 41:50.350 --> 41:50.630 100%. 41:50.630 --> 41:53.550 It's just kind of taking that energy 41:53.550 --> 41:55.510 and transforming it into something positive. 41:55.650 --> 41:56.770 Can you talk about that experience? 41:58.190 --> 41:59.930 Absolutely, James, that's 100% correct. 41:59.930 --> 42:02.210 And in fact, because of that, the book, 42:02.490 --> 42:04.190 the original title I was gonna go with the book 42:04.190 --> 42:05.790 which I'm glad we chose what we did 42:05.790 --> 42:06.810 because I think it's more suiting 42:06.810 --> 42:08.950 was something along the lines of transmutation 42:08.950 --> 42:11.470 and overcoming depression. 42:11.730 --> 42:13.070 It's a similar title, subtitle, 42:13.190 --> 42:15.390 but transmutation was gonna be the main title 42:15.390 --> 42:18.390 because I feel like that's what I was able to do 42:18.910 --> 42:23.650 is to transmute that young, chaotic, confused energy 42:23.650 --> 42:26.790 that I had which was passion and a form. 42:27.390 --> 42:29.350 And it was, as I talk about in the book, 42:29.350 --> 42:31.290 the excitement of being involved in business 42:31.290 --> 42:33.510 and entrepreneurship which is interesting to me 42:33.510 --> 42:36.210 because a lot of that later on, I would discover agorism 42:36.210 --> 42:37.950 and black and gray markets and all that. 42:38.090 --> 42:40.370 I'm like, okay, well, I kind of already understood that already. 42:40.510 --> 42:41.950 I just wasn't doing it in a healthy way 42:41.950 --> 42:45.570 and I wasn't living a way that is conducive to happiness 42:45.990 --> 42:47.670 and to joy and all that sort of thing. 42:47.770 --> 42:51.890 But absolutely, that same passion and energy 42:51.890 --> 42:54.230 that I had as a young man 20 years ago, 42:54.330 --> 42:56.470 20 plus years ago that was at that time 42:56.470 --> 42:58.930 kind of buried under sadness and depression 42:58.930 --> 43:01.930 and chaos and just not really knowing how to channel it. 43:02.570 --> 43:05.790 I've since learned how to work within my own mind 43:05.790 --> 43:08.310 because I'm not sitting here today saying that 43:08.310 --> 43:11.550 I don't ever have self-worth issues, 43:11.950 --> 43:13.730 struggles still as I discuss in the book 43:13.730 --> 43:16.090 or that I don't ever have my own doubts 43:16.090 --> 43:18.450 and things like that, like we all do as human beings. 43:18.830 --> 43:20.810 But I've learned how to deal with those things 43:20.810 --> 43:22.950 rather than drinking a bunch of alcohol 43:22.950 --> 43:24.170 or taking a bunch of drugs. 43:24.350 --> 43:26.970 I've found other ways to navigate my own mind 43:26.970 --> 43:29.530 and navigate my own personal struggles 43:29.530 --> 43:32.350 that are empowering rather than disempowering. 43:32.570 --> 43:34.930 And a lot of that is putting that passion 43:34.930 --> 43:36.970 or that energy I have into the works that I do, 43:37.370 --> 43:39.030 whether it's documentaries, whether it's books 43:39.030 --> 43:41.130 and things like that, activism of various sorts. 43:42.050 --> 43:44.490 So 100%, that's a big part of it too 43:44.490 --> 43:47.670 is transmuting that pain and that heaviness 43:47.670 --> 43:49.850 and turning it into something positive. 43:50.930 --> 43:52.730 Once again, that is Derek Brose 43:52.730 --> 43:54.750 and you can get a copy of his book 43:54.750 --> 43:57.270 through a manofmyword.com 43:57.270 --> 43:58.650 that will be linked up in the show notes 43:58.650 --> 44:00.950 for today's edition of Solutions Watch, obviously. 44:01.250 --> 44:04.590 For those out there who are dealing with this issue 44:04.590 --> 44:07.270 either themselves personally or people in their lives 44:07.920 --> 44:09.050 that they want to help, 44:09.150 --> 44:12.590 I think it is an important story to know, to hear, 44:12.690 --> 44:15.730 to understand that change is possible, 44:15.830 --> 44:16.750 that it does happen, 44:16.830 --> 44:18.810 that these destructive behaviors 44:18.810 --> 44:22.290 can be transformed into something productive. 44:22.290 --> 44:26.050 And although that transformation will not be easy 44:26.050 --> 44:27.570 and it will take a lot of work 44:27.570 --> 44:30.090 and there will be failures and setbacks along the way 44:30.090 --> 44:33.230 but with enough time and enough patience and enough love 44:33.230 --> 44:35.910 it can happen and healing can occur. 44:36.070 --> 44:37.870 It is important for people who are going through this 44:38.250 --> 44:41.170 to know and understand that at the very least. 44:41.510 --> 44:42.970 So there are some resources 44:42.970 --> 44:44.670 that we have put on the table here. 44:44.790 --> 44:46.150 I hope people will explore them. 44:46.490 --> 44:49.090 And if you are dealing with these types of issues 44:49.090 --> 44:51.370 I hope you can find the support in your area. 44:51.370 --> 44:53.210 And on that note, once again, 44:53.470 --> 44:55.170 Solutions Watch is not a spectator sport 44:55.170 --> 44:57.450 but a community participation exercise. 44:57.650 --> 44:59.510 So I hope that members of the Corbett Report, 44:59.750 --> 45:02.950 member community who have experience with this issue 45:02.950 --> 45:05.890 will be able to chime in with their own experiences 45:05.890 --> 45:07.470 and their own recommendations 45:07.470 --> 45:11.170 or things that they would suggest people avoid, et cetera. 45:11.350 --> 45:13.350 I think the more that we hear 45:13.350 --> 45:15.890 about people's actual experience dealing with these issues 45:15.890 --> 45:17.870 obviously everyone is walking their own path 45:17.870 --> 45:19.390 and will have to come to their own decisions 45:19.390 --> 45:20.270 and determinations. 45:20.790 --> 45:23.050 But it is good to have that feedback 45:23.050 --> 45:25.350 and that knowledge of what other people have gone through. 45:25.730 --> 45:26.710 I think that's an important part 45:26.710 --> 45:27.990 of the healing process itself. 45:28.530 --> 45:30.430 So there's a lot on the table. 45:30.610 --> 45:33.030 I hope Corbett Report members will log in 45:33.030 --> 45:35.890 and leave their experiences at corbettreport.com 45:35.890 --> 45:38.590 so that we can learn and grow our way forward together 45:38.590 --> 45:42.830 and hopefully get more people off of these substances 45:42.830 --> 45:45.190 or activities or behaviors 45:45.190 --> 45:46.990 that they have found themselves addicted to 45:46.990 --> 45:50.270 and towards using their energies and passions 45:50.270 --> 45:51.610 in a productive capacity. 45:52.350 --> 45:53.170 That is the goal. 45:53.510 --> 45:54.670 Let's see if we can make it happen. 45:55.370 --> 45:56.350 And on that note, 45:56.630 --> 45:58.670 I'm going to leave today's exploration there for today. 45:59.210 --> 46:00.770 I'm James Corbett of corbettreport.com 46:00.770 --> 46:02.970 looking forward to talking to you again in the near future. 46:05.230 --> 46:08.610 The Corbett Report is 100% listener supported. 46:09.970 --> 46:12.450 Join the Corbett Report community to become a member 46:12.870 --> 46:14.750 and log into corbettreport.com 46:15.070 --> 46:16.750 to read the subscriber newsletter, 46:17.390 --> 46:18.830 featuring my weekly editorial, 46:19.390 --> 46:20.810 recommended reading and viewing, 46:21.510 --> 46:23.150 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