Get ready to take a flamethrower to the official narrative and learn what the elites don't want you to know
You're listening to the Tom Woods show
Everybody Tom Woods here it's episode 2744 the Tom Woods show the great Robert Barnes the constant the only
Constitutional lawyer you ever want to hear from is here with us
He is the founder of the 70s 1776. What is it called 1776 Law Center?
Law Center, I couldn't think of because because I was thinking Southern Poverty Law Center
I thought it can't be the same words
But maybe you're using the same words to try to indicate that maybe in some senses see your kind of answer
There's some of these terrible people out there
But you are the guy I want to listen to on all these kinds of questions and today
We got to deal with this craziness that may turn out to be nothing
It may turn out to be a so-called nothing burger, but even if it does it still matters because of the way people
reacted to the the story if indeed turns out there is one and that is this matter of Tucker Carlson evidently having been
in contact with Iran in a way that would be described as treasonous because the US is at
Well war or not is that something with Iran at the moment and to see the way
Tucker's enemies were gleefully pouncing that he's gonna wind up behind bars Laura Loomer who is I do not would not want her as an
Ally if I found out she was my ally I would say to her. I really just don't want you around
I don't want you associated with my name
But some people not everybody's like me and she was boasting that she has helped push this case against
Tucker forward and that she hopes that he winds up in prison. So I thought
We had to talk about this. So what exactly?
The question of whether there really is
Anything any real case against Tucker formally being put together is very much in question
I'll get back to that later
But if there were to be one what according to what we've heard so far. Is it likely to consist of?
So me basically what Tucker reported is that CIA was spying on his texts and intercepting his communications with the
various people in Iran
When he was trying to set up an interview with the president of Iran back in the summer of 2025
The only plausible allegations you could make
Would be something like a far violation for an agents registration act and there's no evidence that that's the case here
Now the first problem with the what story Tucker was told is that the CIA has no statutory
constitutional or other right to spy or intercept any communication of an American that the CIA's own
Charter prohibits and precludes sometimes people see this in TV shows and movies
Reference but it is in fact legally correct in this instance
The TV shows and movies the CIA has no power to its spy on people inside the United States territory
Who are themselves United States citizens?
So the NSA has that power through the foreign intelligence surveillance act and usually they have to go
But if they're going to target an American
Oh, if they're going to unmask who the communication is to they also have to go through
And get court approval through the foreign intelligence surveillance court, which is appointed by Chief Justice
Roberts now both of these of course have been controversial in recent times because
General Flynn was one of the very few people ever prosecuted under far and a very misuse and abuse of
prosecutorial power by Robert Mueller's crew in Trump's first term and of course the FISA abuse
It was part of what led to spy gate
Which was part of the whole Russia gate scandal in the first term of the president's administration
Which Tulsi Gabbard has already outed and is part subject to a criminal referral being made to the Southern District of Florida
to look into people like John Brennan and a range of others connected to him
Concerning their legal behavior. So the question is is the CIA doing it again?
If the CIA did in fact spy or intercept on these communications
Then they have violated the constitutional rights of Tucker Carlson and they're back to outside their statutory authority and
Themselves committed crimes
So I have doubts about the story that Tucker was told that the CIA would make a criminal referral to the Justice Department because they're criminal
But who knows they may be that dumb
Because such a criminal referral
Would be an admission and acknowledgement of their own criminality not of anything Tucker did for those that are concerned
Hey, because it does the foreign agents registration act restrict my first amendment speech rights here in the United States
Of course, no statute can overturn the Constitution of the United States
So first answer is no second is so you have to interpret that law in light of the First Amendment
The in the way in which it's been interpreted
It only applies if you're really not speaking for yourself
But you're speaking as an agent of somebody else and that agent is a foreign principle who you are acting under the
Controller supervision of so most common most ordinary people deal with the concept of agency in the principle of their employment
When is somebody my agent when is when am I somebody else's agent think about those principles?
Am I acting on my behalf or am I acting on somebody else's behalf if you're not acting on somebody else's behalf and that somebody else
Isn't a foreign principle anyway, then you're not subject to far up even then the far law itself
Says if you're involved in scientific work academic work literary work
Artistic work or journalistic work you are entirely excluded and exempt from far in the first place
So if you're a journalist engaged in news gathering, you're not covered under the far laws
So this means that there's nothing that Tucker did in trying to get an interview with Iranian president
That could even possibly be a violation of the law least of all something that could be
Constitutionally upheld as a plausible indictment
But what it does suggest is a pattern of harassment that is likely to escalate in the context of war
As we've seen in America and like around the world like what happened during COVID
once the war machine gets rolling a
censorship and
Prosecution of people for politicized reasons soon follows it
So that's what it what's really likely behind the scenes is an effort to intimidate not just Tucker
But everybody else you better put your head low you better keep your mouth shut or you might be next right right right, right?
I do want to say just to be
Just for completeness
the issue of whether or not the United States is technically quote at war is
Potentially an issue here because the administration has made such a big deal out of claiming that they're not at war
Even though the president keeps saying using the word war the vice president is very careful
Even if he has to stumble to do it to avoid the use of the word war
So if they really really want to insist to us that they're not at war
Then you know, yeah, they've made their beds now. They have to sleep in it
So whatever Tucker is doing he's doing at a time when apparently the US is not at war. Does that matter?
They came out in certain context
So the there's nothing Tucker did that would be considered a criminal violation of these laws of sedition or treason or the like anyway
But the if but those the treason laws for example, which are
Constitutionally constrained in their definition because there was great concern by our founders that treason would be misused and abused in the way
President Trump is currently talking about wanting to misuse and abuse it saying if media are continued to expose the failures of my war effort in Iran
Then they should be prosecuted for treason. This is insanity. This is a constitutional violation is gonna get was gonna be one count of about
125 they get this president impeached
In my opinion unfortunately
For those of us that backed him the but basically treason only applies and when there's been a formal declaration of war
So you can play games. I mean, I'll give them credit
They took Putin's special military operation in Ukraine and they're like, yeah, let's just steal that and they're like
Well, we can't use the exact same phrase because then everybody will know what special combat operation. Yes
But even Vance can't can't remember the terms like what am I supposed to say again? Oh, yeah, not a war special combat operation
I mean the level of Orwellian it's it's like what would happen if Orwell was retarded and that's the current Trump
Administration's protection of all of this nonsense. Oh, I'm reading a series of posts by a guy who I guess is a White House reporter for Axios and
He says this the online chatter about Tucker Carlson looked like quite a story
He was being spied on by the CIA and knowing that
Trump tweeted him as a useful idiot by feeding him disinformation
That fooled the Iranians about the looming February 28th attack
But top administration officials say it's well
I don't use bad words on the show because I want I want parents to be able to drive around with little Johnny in the back
Seat, but let's just say top administration officials say it's you know, it's not true. Let's put it that way
And he says specifically I'm told number one
There is no CIA investigation of Carlson number two in his meeting the two politely disagreed and
Trump held to his position that Iran was a threat and did not mislead Tucker and a one source says
Trump quote wasn't participating in an op
So that's all I mean if this guy is to be believed. I don't see why why not
Then this is being hyped up by people who just can't stand Tucker and I can't I wonder what it is about Tucker
Is it you think it's his economic policies that?
People dislike or I don't know. Maybe they just think he's a boring host. Is there you think there could be anything motivating?
I mean, I don't need you to read minds here Robert
But what do you think is really going on here? Well, I encourage people to filter I've used for a long time
I call it confession through projection
So if you think about it anytime in your life at some point somebody comes and makes like a crazy
Allegation against you that just makes no sense
Often they're confessing their own crimes
It's the old Edgar Allen pose telltale heart beats loudly that people just have this need to confess
The like of you if you listen almost anything President Macron of France says about Russia
He's telling you what Europe is about to do or has done
It's not about Russia if Ukraine's talking about casualties whenever they mention Ukrainian casualties
Those are the Russian casualties whenever they mention Russian casualties
Those are the Ukrainian casualties and I've found it all sometimes people confess in like shocking ways
So I've been using it with Trump ever since he started losing his mind in my opinion
starting in late last summer and
It's stunningly. It's like when he says Iran was begging for a ceasefire
But the terms aren't acceptable to me yet
What he really really means is Trump is begging for a ceasefire
But Iran is unwilling to accept what Trump wants to provide his terms. So the I think the same thing is true here
Notice their obsession with hey
There's a foreign government afoot that is involved in illicitly interfering with and hijacking
US public policy
Including the opinions of prominent podcasters influencers and social media folks. Well, there is such a government
They are in fact infiltrating and hijacking and staging a coup over the American government
But it ain't cutter and ain't Saudi Arabia and ain't Iran and ain't the Ruskies and ain't China
It's Israel and it's the Israel lobby that has got their ultimate
Takeover of an entire administration's policies not only in concerning Gaza or Lebanon or Syria or war the ran or
Relationship with the Gulf States and all of that
But also things like the Epstein files the Epstein files the total reversal by the president
Corresponds to this
this sort of complete
subservience to the Israel lobby who has and they've done this throughout the administration if anybody in the administration
Or who's gonna come and people like Brandon Weissher and people like Jeremy Carl
These are people that are very strong Trump supporters knowledgeable on issues of foreign policy
They have been excluded or kicked out Dan Caldwell former Pentagon
Joint secretary of defense now secretary of war eggs depth
You know the kind of person who was moderating and modified
You know the insanity of someone like eggs death when left alone all these people were perched all these people were either excluded or kicked out of
The administration for one reason and one reason only there are failure to be subservient Israel
If you look at a lot of people that have not been known as MAGA
Who suddenly got high-ranking jobs in the administration you look at people like the secretary of commerce
Lutnick you the secretary of treasury pheasant secretary of state and Rubio
CIA director Ratcliffe deputy general counsel the CIA
Michael Ellis the you look at a range of these people that you know
You had the political people that helped him win people like Bobby Kennedy and Tulsi Gabbard and JD Vance and and Elbridge Colby
And Joe Kent and that crowd
But the people that didn't have anything to do with him winning they got all these positions of power
They have one thing in common including Dan Bongino and cash Patel and Pam Bondi and Todd Blanche and Stanley Woodward
They're all deeply loyal to Israel. They're Israel firsters
Basically Israel has captured this administration and being unsatisfied with just capturing the administration and its policies and
hijacking all of Trump and the Trump part two
They've also been enraged that the public is pointing this out upon occasion
So they the next step was massive illicit
I mean, it's publicly known that they were
Spending hundreds of thousands millions of dollars to influence and and buy off influencers in the United States
But those influencers have still not been disclosed the agency hired to do it disclosed
But they didn't disclose who it is they were hiring and so they you know
They was talking up to seven thousand dollars a post or maybe it was seven thousand dollars a month
Whatever it was huge amounts of money have been flooding into this space
And you suddenly see people that have been you know Israel skeptics that have been war critics
Suddenly, you know on this cheer, you know Tucker Carlson is the devil
Laura the who is there is some sort of a hero. I mean, this is someone who you know
The who modeled for the character jigsaw out of the movie saw, you know
The this is not someone who should be dictating any degree of public policy
The but that's so that's what's really underneath all of this is the Israel lobby has hijacked the
American administration under President Trump and they're high and in order to keep it a secret
They're running smear and censor campaigns against anybody buying off various
Influencers and social media and other networks to achieve their ends and they're confessing through projecting when they keep telling you
There's a foreign government that's hijacking our influencers and hijacking our public policy
But the reality is it's them not their adversaries
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At this point, it's so obvious
I mean there at least before you know that they did is the courtesy of trying to be
Cajie about it and now it's so out in the open and but yet but yet
They they seem to think that the hostility that is being thereby provoked. I mean after all
We've seen poll numbers showing that American favorability toward Israel is at an all-time low
So you can imagine
What American favorability toward people who just lobby for Israel 24 hours a day must be that the way they're gonna
They're really thinking that they're gonna handle this by just denying everything
There is no such thing as Israel first you anti-semites made that up
They're just gonna deny everything
Instead of saying well, yeah, a lot of us have a deep and profound abiding concern for Israel
For personal reasons but also for strategic reasons that we think are shared by the United States and let me list them for you
Now how often do you get that? I mean Robert you for a long time as was I
Was would be counted in Israel's corner and and when you had some misgivings that you started to express
Did anybody say to you oh Robert listen? You've been such a wonderful ally the least we can do with that
We owe you as decent human beings is to just explain to you a little bit better
What the strategic value of Israel to the US is I I would tend to think nobody, right?
Oh, yeah, it's very much the reaction that I got for simply pointing out the implicit promise of the Israel lobby in Trump
2024 was if maga backs
Protecting Israel then Israel lobby will fund Trump and maga agenda items
but in fact they betrayed that promise and
Immediately hijacked it all for their own purposes for the detriment of the coalition because like my objections to this Iranian conflict
The first one is just that it breaks up the entire 2024 coalition and likely leads to Democrats controlling the House of the Senate and the White House
By 2028 they'll control the House of the Senate by 2026
So I was just not willing like Matt Walsh said I was not willing to sacrifice the midterms and the 2028 for Israel's
Priorities particularly when those priorities were not apparently or manifestly in their own self-interest their security
Iran was no imminent threat to Israeli more than was the United States as long as they didn't attack them
You know which was our perverted distorted logic
But the the reality is the Scott Hortons of the world the Dave Smith's of the world the Ron Paul's of the world
The Rand Paul's of the world the Thomas masses of the world their skepticism of our getting entangled though
You know those are people following President George Washington's farewell address people forget
He said not only avoid, you know getting unduly involved in about adversaries globally
But he said especially stay away from your friends your friends will get you dragged into a dumb stupid war easier than anybody
So he said whatever you do don't do that and but the reality is Israel hasn't been much of a friend the United States
the Israel lobby is documented by professor Mirsheimer back in 06 and 07 has constantly been sabotaging American foreign policy and
They've done more spying on the US than anybody
They've stolen more secrets from the US than anybody is Israel
But some of us were willing to push that aside as long as they're a part of the MAGA coalition instead
They become the ultimate traders and saboteurs
The and whenever I started voicing criticism and questions and concerns which I think even for Israel's own benefit
This is war is not good. You know, they're getting hammered within the war
But they're gonna have no allies left in the world and when you have no allies left in the world
How how long do you think your small little nation can survive? You know nuclear war weapons only works as a deterrent
To the degree that you have at least some degree of public buying around the world
Otherwise you're gonna be a pariah state like North Korea and I don't think Israel can sustain that so I don't even think this is an
Israel's best interest, but it became clear what Israel the lobby was up to
And they were sabotaging everything else in the Trump administration the Justice Department's become an open pay-for-play scheme
You can see this reported in everything from libertarian publications to the to the American prospect
In terms of the antitrust division the Justice Department
There's a you know the pardons are pay-for-play and a lot of and but what happens when you dig into these corruption
Issues you'll find the same Israel lobby connected people people like the Laura
Loser keep showing up connected to these items as well
You know is it a coincidence that rumor went nuts on Tucker after Tucker disclosed that she's involved in a scam trying to rip off old people
Connected to bogus a gold sales. Oh, yeah, probably not
But yeah, the reaction to me has been whenever I voiced any criticism or skepticism or concern when and I'm a big believer in short term
Medium term predictability listen to what somebody says and see if they they can make short medium term predictions that are accurate
And so on the Iran conflict I followed people like Lieutenant Colonel Daniel Davis and Colonel Douglas McGregor
The Doran Alexander McCorris and Alex Christopher Daniel Davis another guy. They tried to keep out of the administration
They successfully kept out of the administration. They did swampy Susie. Yeah, the
Was the one who helped lock him because Tulsi Gabbard wanted them in and so the but yeah
The reaction has been hey Barnes when you originally gave that criticism. It sounded better than the original German, you know the
Where's your little Nazi outfit?
Do you like to go step around the office and on your house when you wake up in the morning and all the anti
Nothing, it's really stupid about equating
support or opposition to Israel's particular policies with the religion or identity of Judaism is it increases
Antisemitism it doesn't decrease it when it's a complete lies. Ionism and Judaism are not the same thing
Ask any a lot of orthodox Jews who will go on a long lecture about how heretical
Zionism is or talk to a lot of liberal and left-wing Jews who are highly critical of Zionism and have been from its inception
So you have that aspect one out of four Israelis opposed Jewish Israelis opposed this war in Iran
So there's people in Israel who do not agree that BB Netanyahu equals Judaism
Any more than Israel equals Judaism
But what that does is that jacks up the anti-semitism the Nick Fuentes of the world look look prescient
Now because of all of this now it's all people if you listen to Nick Fuentes and Scott Horton Scott Horton's been a lot more accurate than Nick
went there so the
But the you look at to the people that have been on the war skeptical side the Israel skeptical side
It comes from detailed diligent study of these issues for the past 30 40 years and we're just now
It's coming to fruition in a mushroom cloud. I mean, that's how bad it
Is becoming and the risk that we run and the that's why Tucker Carlson anti-semitic
There's not anti-semitic bone in his body Brett Weinstein anti-semitic Jew hating Jew self-loathing. I mean, this is insanity
They're using the rhetoric and language of the left because they need to censor and shame
In order to suppress the knowledge and awareness that these are dangerous policies because America's government has been hijacked by a foreign nation
I want to back up something you said that that thing about the gold scams. That's not
That's not being overstated. That is a that's a real thing and I won't take just a minute on this so Tucker
Along with another guy
basically started a gold or he partnered in a gold company because what what has but continues to happen in the podcasting world is
When it comes to gold a gold dealer is operating on very very thin margins
So if you're promoting a gold company on a podcast
You the commissions you would earn or the the advertising review would earn is gonna be very low because the margins are low
But these scam companies who are gonna scam Fox News viewers who are retired into into overpaying
Paying a premium for collectible coins, which is a mistake on multiple levels
they can pay very high
commissions and
Advertising rates to podcasters because they're making a ton of money because they're screwing people out of their money and it
It should be obvious that that's what's happening like a podcast host should know
There's no way I should be making this much money selling gold at the spot price
I mean, there's no reason this should be happening, but they either
Weren't bright enough to look into it any deeper or you know, heaven forbid they were in on it
But the fact is this has been going on on podcast after podcast after podcast
where the host just sees dollar signs and doesn't ask questions and
That's the case for a lot of these people
So that's it doesn't matter how you feel about Tucker pro or con on this. He is a hundred percent right
Now on on the other stuff. Um, I I want to say
Urge people to watch the interview that Tucker did just several days ago
not the interview he did on his own show with Piers Morgan, but the interview he did on Piers Morgan's show and
That to me as if I didn't know already
Revealed why it is. They're so berserk about Tucker. I mean, there are other people who have expressed
Concern about the American-Israeli relationship
Obviously Tucker has very high ratings. So that's a big reason that they're paying attention
But the other thing is he doesn't sound crazy, you know, they they try to say, oh, he's lost his mind
He's this or that. No, it's the opposite. It's precisely because he comes across as so reasonable
In fact Piers Morgan, you know
Who's been accused of being too pro-Israel and too anti-Israel? So, you know, he's in the middle said, you know
I I can barely think of anything. I disagreed with you about in this interview. Piers is pretty much right down the middle
And that's the thing is that he's explaining it in ways that are not hysterical and not crazy and
Just persuasive enough to make even a hardened Fox News person think well
And when you put it like that, I guess I don't really like the way that sounds
So that's got to be part of it is actually that he's good at it
Oh, I think no doubt and I think the fact that these are people that have Tucker previously strongly supported Israel
People like myself strongly supported Israel people like Megan Kelly strongly supported the Israel people like Piers Morgan
Strongly supported Israel and mostly we are just reflective and representative of what is broadly happening
Like I'll get people that will attack me say ponder. Crazy. You've lost your mind
Oh, it's like okay. So Alex Jones also lost his mind Joe Rogan also lost his mind the obon also lost his mind
And they all became anti-Semitic
Simultaneously, yeah, exactly. We all started suffering anti-Israeli virus
The that spread somehow like COVID the or it could be the case that what we're seeing in public opinion
Richard Barris people's public people's pundit daily
The we even did a whole video on this last year breaking down the whole political history of American public opinion about Israel
In which you could see we predicted it before it happened now
It's actually happened said that you know that sometime over the next couple of years a majority of American more Americans
Will side with the Palestinians and sympathize with the Palestinians in Israel
We were just documenting to lies degree with Tucker's doing is simply representing
What is broadly happening throughout the world which is that the world is rejecting Israel right now in the United States?
Every generation other than boomers have a very negative view of Israel have an unfavorable view of Israel have a more sympathetic view of
Palestinians and these are the Palestinians like that are affiliated or associated in court of public opinion with a mass of the Todd
You know and all of that they still sympathize more with the Palestinians in with Israel
It's not because they're so sympathetic toward the Palestinians. It's because they're that hostile to Israel
particularly BB Netanyahu's Israel and the greater Israel project
and
What they what they've done in dragging us into all these conflicts was one thing the raising of Gaza to the to the
Almost to the ground was the second thing and the third was dragging us into war that the don't drag us into another war
at least of all with Iran and
That's what the you know people like me the another person who was going through this exact same conversion in lifetime
Who experienced mass be just because they were intellectually honest and they were listening to the community was Charlie Kirk
The I mean I had these conversations offline with Charlie and the and they you know
There's different branches within T turning point and so there's not going struggle there
But I'll give them credit last week Charlie Kirk show put me on to talk about it for about half an hour
And they got so much crap
They got there was a massive cancellation campaign a demand the donors quit donating the turning point simply because the Charlie
Kirk show had me on that was it was this on for a few minutes the
The mark Levin was you know giving them free unsolicited advice of course about how do you know how to make sure to blacklist people like us and
The to their credit they stood with it. They went on Megan Kelly said they're gonna do it again
They wrecked me Andrew in particular knows how much Charlie
Was Ted taken a different position increasingly on Israel
The and you see them trying to gin up like a fear of Islamic presence in the United States
And there's legitimate concerns mixed in there. I don't dispute that what's happening in Europe and other places
But it's going to be exaggerated here in the United States large number of voters in Dearborn voted for Trump in 2024
So Trump was proud of that. Yes. He was he solicited their votes
He wanted their votes and you know now in the and now all of a sudden that's the great threat to America
Not the Israel lobby hijacking our entire military economic and political policy for a tiny foreign nation to engage in a possible
Apocalyptic war because Hague's death mean you talk about people falling off the wagon
He fell off the neo wagon and went and just started binging like a madman the I mean
I knew that he believed in some of these things, but I talked to him years ago
He told me he'd rejected all that he's no longer part of that. He didn't like that, you know
Maybe he was sincere. Maybe he wasn't some of these people. I don't know how much they were sincere now
You do know there's criticisms out there about JD Vance Vance lobbied up obsessively
Against this war in this conflict. That's why he got stuck in DC
It wasn't Trump didn't even bring him to Mar-a-Lago to launch the attack and when everything JD told him said we got this risk
This risk this risk started coming true
Trump's reaction was to get in enraged and they get mad and and cancel certain PR of public events that JD was going to appear
That's what he basically disappeared for about a week
The to be Trump is frankly becoming King Lear mad
By what I've heard from people up in the administration like he's Susie Wiles has literally instructed cabinet members to not deliver any
Information to Trump that he could interpret negatively. That's how bad it is
you know, so
Unfortunately could get worse before it gets better, but Tulsi Gabbard
I know there's been a lot of criticism over because he long said this war would be a disaster
She did everything she could to try to stop this and yeah, could she resign?
Yes, but then she's got no power at all
Then she's got no influence at all and she's hopeful by constantly being there whispering in Trump's ear
Maybe get him to take an exit ramp. Maybe get him to not escalate not would not go to ground forces
And unfortunately the worst of the escalatory risk in Iran
Tucker's absolutely right to warn people about is the use of nuclear weapons
They are a seriously considering that as an option. So you got ground forces draft and nuclear weapons
That's how this could get way out of hand and let's hope that the sound and sane voices get to the president enough to
Stop them from escalating in that direction
His stay to mind right now is the opposite of what it should be he should be saying
Who who was it who pushed me into this stupid thing like these people I have to just turn off
But he's not doing that
As far as I mean, I don't know what goes on behind closed doors
But I joked the other day on Twitter, you know, I'm a I'm a decent Twitter follow
I think and I said look now that he's defending Mark Levin with this with this block of
Impenetrable block of unreadable text last night or whenever it was
You know with with all this going on
Does this not maybe suggest to us that whatever it is they have on them
Must be pretty terrible if he's reduced to what no self-respecting person would do namely writing a big
Fawning tribute to Mark Levin of all people
Yeah, I'm I'm worried about this and the thing is, you know when
on the campaign trail and and into in
2024 in particular, I think everybody who sympathized with Trump thought all right look we all know
There's you know, there's something a little bit odd upstairs with the guy
And he will fly off the handle at people who have been you know, he had been his longtime allies
His his loyalty is not very great. He expects perfect loyalty to him, but he doesn't have to be loyal to anybody else
Oh, you defended me through two impeachments. Oh, what have you done for me lately?
It's his attitude toward Thomas Massey for example, but we all kind of I think thought well
But offsetting that is the potential he has to do good offsetting that is is that
But now it's he's in a situation where things are you know, obviously going badly and
Now that part of his personality really comes to the fore and and if people are afraid to give him bad news
Well, this is I don't know what to say about it. Yeah, it becomes very very dangerous
So when I was a kid
But dad dad when I was 11 and I had these two books
I really just clung to for like the next year is sort of mentor guide guide sort of paternalistic guides
One of them is Robert Kennedy seniors book to seek a newer world about his campaign text in 1968
And the other one was Donald Trump's art of the deal
I remember I should share that story with Bobby Kennedy Jr. Some years ago. He got a kick out of the
But the thing I stuck to it are the deal was Trump had this unique mindset, which was expect the best
But always plan for the worst
So it was this great marriage of idealism almost utopianism
Mixed with hardcore balanced and tethered by realism and I found it to be a very powerful
Motivational tool it almost anything that I did professing
Trump is now abandoned the latter part of that. He doesn't want any realism
Instead, everything's got to just be positive thinking and this is where positive thinking can go awry
It becomes wishful thinking it becomes hallucinatory self delusions
And that's where Trump mentally is when people get confused where Trump says they don't Iran doesn't have any
Boats, this is just a made-up made-up lie
What this has been part of man's defense way back these go-fast type boats
They can can their Navy is not a traditional Navy their army is not a traditional army the Air Force is not a traditional Air Force
They knew they couldn't win that way instead
They have a bunch of drones and underground ballistic missiles
They have a bunch of underwater drones and go-fast boats with missiles attached to them that apparently sent the USS Lincoln
Despite all of our false claims
You know, everybody can see the satellite footage. It's going backwards. They're going forward the and Trump's out there saying no
I think he he convinced it. He now he is told the truth
He was told the truth best rates of our moves
He was told the truth about their weapons about the regime change would collapse wouldn't happen
He was told all this he just ignored it
He refused to listen to it because of your memory the movie memento where the character
Sorry if anybody out there listening hasn't seen the movie this a little bit of a spoiler
So you could fast-forward 30 seconds if you want, but the character is very
Basically loses his memory every night and what he does is he lies to himself during the day
So that he will believe the lies the next day so that he can do horrific things in a conscientious way
The and so the this memento memories where Trump is now anything negative. He shuts out and disappears
Anything he wants to hear he enhances it and that's why you get this insanity this in real time
We just destroyed a hundred percent of their military
Except their drones their bombs their missiles and their and their soldiers. Let's look
You didn't think about this when you put this burger, but that's what happens when you're operating it
He's operating at continuous cognitive dissonance on a daily basis. We see it represented as public statements
We see it in his troops
But I've been hearing about this for months from high-ranking Trump administration officials that he was literally losing it that you
Couldn't share any negative information and the problem is that's when you read the story
Of the King leaders going mad that that sort of literary tradition
represents a historical
Tradition which is of people that you know the may have at one time been very good noble leaders
But at some point lose it the reality is Trump has been losing it and the I mean
I you know, I'm half kidding, but I'm literally only half kidding
We're like lock him up in the White House movie room
Show him just movies of how awesome he is and how great he is and people cheering him all the time
And just let him stay there and somebody else run JD Vance run the country. Yeah
I mean that would be great if we could figure out a way to make that happen
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The fact that in the middle of all this
somehow
the president found time to write this thing for
Mark Levin who had been attacked by Megan Kelly not unprovoked obviously he'd been attacking Megan Kelly
Over and over and over consistently and viciously
Day of week and month after month and she finally just had it and you know
Well, I think was a bit vulgar in her response
but I I can't say I don't sympathize with her and
Obviously Levin goes crying to Trump and Trump obliges him instead of saying grow up
You're an old man for heaven's sake. You're a granddad, you know
You who cares if somebody on social media is calling you a name
But no he interviewed be why because because Levin's a flatterer
Levin understands that if you want to appeal to this man, it's through flattery and it's through implied threats like
You know putting your arm around him telling him how great he is
But he's great because he's done these particular things and then posting on Twitter that I know the president would never
Give in and just negotiate on this because what is there to go?
I know which means I'm ready to jump ship the second this guy doesn't do exactly what I want
It's incredible that you would want a friend like that because that's not really a friend. Oh
No, no, I mean Mark Levin for those people may not remember was so in never Trump
He refused to vote for him in 2016 the general elect so that's who Martin Levin is but you're right
The this is what a high-ranking Trump official told me two months ago
They said a Barnes Trump only respects sick of fans and killers
So he goes the problem is you no longer wants the killers around what does that mean?
All he gets his flatterers and sick of fans now JD Vance
He can't remove because he's vice president. He's elected official so Vance can be more direct and blunt
But whatever Trump doesn't like what he says. He just starts systematically excluding JD
Start stripping him of different power and authority Vance was supposed to be in charge of the fraud
prosecutions and a new overlapping fraud assistant attorney general position
And because Vance was constantly being critical of the Iran war idea all the way back to January
Trump stripped him of it and gave that power back to the Justice Department and now Vance's role is purely ceremonial purely a press role
So the it's it's he's lose and I've told people the only the way you're gonna get through the Trump is to get up
And get right up in front of him smack him in the face
The reality is the only really the only way you're gonna get negative information to him is not going the sycophant route
But by being the killer route
And Trump let you know the despite his
He'll protest a wine. He'll squeal. He'll complain. He'll throw a temper tantrum
But it will get through to him and at some point unconsciously starts to move him
Even if he doesn't want to be moved and then the sycophantic thing is you plant the idea as if it was his idea
That's why I love Tim Dillon's early
Could be routine this past podcast where Dylan was explaining, you know, maybe the new Iranian leader despite
The supreme leader despite having his father his mother his wife and his young daughter just murdered
You know, maybe he'll be really good
Because we don't know what his family relations were like. That was Dylan's joke
But the but he progressed with he goes I'm for anything that will convince this president to get out
Tell him whatever lie you need to tell him. Tell him whatever fan
Do you know what whatever it is anything that gets us out? You're a huge winner, Mr.
President you did something nothing
Oh, nobody else could ever do but the only way you can guarantee this win is gotta gotta get us out now
Because otherwise they'll say you've lost if you're still there in a week
So the I'll give Dylan credit for that but Trump is losing his mind
He really is losing his mind and it's an ongoing risk his his modus operandi the way you approach is
I mean, I'll give an example the other way in which they're enforcing this and this connects to Tucker and what's happening with Trump
They went to a bunch of Republican pollsters a month ago and said if you want to get
Any contract from any pack
Connected at all to the Trump cause of the Republican Party
You are not going to publish or print any polls that show Trump badly underwater or
negative any negative information on either the Epstein files or the Iran war and
The very prominently Mark Mitchell of Rasmussen suddenly disappeared from social media at that time Frank
And all of a sudden Rasmussen started printing polls. It made no sense the Mark Mitchell wasn't there doing those polls by all appearances the
See, you know people like Richard Barris were like screw you. I'm gonna be an honest pollster
I'm not gonna be intimidated by anybody
But I would love to I would love to get him on if there's some way I could do that
In touch
River to riches, you know, he's like maybe five foot eight, but he's a tough
But he's somebody who could take down somebody who's six foot ten, you know, the okay
Well, I'm only five foot six. So this I'm not even in the picture
But you know, he's served in our military great guy people's pundit big data poll does all kinds of detailed polling
1776 law center recently did a nationwide survey to feed to everybody that's running for office or in office on all these popular populist
Policies that just re-empower people away from the government whether it's food freedom or medical freedom political freedom financial freedom
Being able to take on these centralized institutions of big ag big pharma big tech and big media the and so
But he was the only one to refuse insider advantage went along Trafalgar went along and so what happens?
They start feeding fake polls to the president
It starts being this circle this knowing of circular logic
But a circle of bad intel and information and then it's being reinforced by all the conservative influencers or secretly on
Israeli payroll or have been intimidated or have been captured by their audience
Because they've been flooding. I mean you've probably seen this on X
I've been getting even that that fake Shaw of Iran that the son of the former Shaw of Iran
He showed up in my response and replies
To it if you can't do a poll now on X that's honest anymore
It'll be honest for about an hour and then after that the bots flood it and suddenly oh everybody loves war
Everybody wants this everybody loves the fake Shaw the so the they've been using the bot armies
They've been using social media. They're rating people's YouTube tats rumble tats, etc
These accounts you've never seen before from names. You've never seen before making crazy allegations or accusations the moment
You say anything critical of the war or the Epstein file handling or President Trump or of Israel's policies and politics
I mean Israel just allowed one of the worst war crimes in the modern era
Let them all walk a bunch of Israeli soldiers were systematically raping an abusing pit
Palestinian detainees caught on tape doing so an Irene an Israeli whistleblower blew the whistle in Israeli doctor
Was the main testifying witness and they dropped the whole case and BB Netanyahu went out there and said or at least
Ex-account said you know, we're not sure where BB is these days
But they said it's a blood libel to point out
These are morally legally horrific things that these soldiers did and they did it in the name of Israel
And so the and then bunch of the Israeli public cheered it because they've kind of lost you you know
Well, you live through it. We both did
It's post 9-1 and my mom post 9-11 madness, right? Or were people like it's okay. What's happening at Abu Ghraib?
It's okay. What's happening in Guantanamo. It's okay. We're renditioning likely innocent people to hell holes all around the world the
Because they became so morally degraded they looked into the vests and the abyss stared back and they became the monster
They sought to destroy it and I think there's part of that going on in the Israeli public
So now particularly was not the time to we'll have BB Netanyahu drag us around the nose to any conflict around the world
But anybody who points it out is gonna get attacked gonna be demonized gonna be so I mean the other thing
They did to those these are posters
They told these posters if you keep being publicly critical of President Trump on these particular issues ran or an Epstein files
Then Pam Bondi is gonna use the Justice Department to come after you I mean it was literally
I know because I was getting calls panic calls from them afterward a barn's way represent me
This actually happens the so that tells you the level of insanity
You're talking like Nixon walking around looking at you know talking to the paintings as if they're real
1974 in terms of where Trump's mindset is and the entire
collectocratic corrupt
Israel first class that has surrounded him in positions of political power are so eager to line their own pockets with all this that they
Keep Trump in denial is to the political and an everyday military reality. You see Hex death out there just pitching
Oh, we have a complete air superiority. Well, why haven't we hit anything in Eastern Iran then yet?
I mean the it's these are oh nobody our plane just magically fell from the sky
Oh, not that Iranian weapons took him down
Which is by the way happened multiple times as Larry Johnson has confirmed the former CIA analyst
Who stole his deep ties and connections throughout the military intelligence world?
So it's unfortunately it's gonna get more dangerous rather than less
But don't be surprised if you're seeing, you know, you know bought back
Accounts suddenly surge out of the blue. Oh weird attacks out of the blue
Efforts to demonize smear censor anybody who voices any dissident information at all about the war of the conflict
We've already seen lots of it and it's gonna get worse before it gets better
Well, last thing and then I'll let you go
This is an area where you and I are very interested in the subject
But we're not experts and that is just just sheer political analysis. I just I guess I want to ask you in
2028 I
I think a lot of people just assumed that it would just be natural that
JD Vance would be the clear standard bearer
And if you were gonna run in the Republican primary, you would know that you were facing a huge huge uphill climb
But all of this going on as you have strongly suggested here at the very least complicates that scenario
We also have the neocons pushing for Rubio
Rubio as the nominee would be the ultimate way of saying we've learned nothing
But we learn not a thing in our entire adult lives
We want Marco Rubio, but I guess my question is it's not a I don't know if it's a should question or it's a do you expect question?
There to be somebody on that debate stage who will
represent this
America first wing of the movement the one that would they're pretending never existed you just misinterpreted us
You don't know what you're talking about or you're a Nazi or whatever that whole thing
It you know somebody like a Thomas Massey who I don't know if he's you know a great presidential candidate or not
I guess we'd have to see or even a Tucker Carlson himself if he would dare risk that
Do you think that would be good or and or do you expect something like that to happen?
I do think there'll be the thing I'm most curious about is
Not so much to the primary competition, but the surge of independent or third-party options
so I think that I think you because if Republicans nominate a Rubio and
Democrats nominate another neoliberal war whore then I think we can see you know
You generally the UK tends to run in parallel with US political trends wise so you go all the way back
You know you could say you know the tertiary getting thrown out is like the Democrats getting thrown out in 1946
You know the Harold Wilson it was very much a Jimmy Carter type in the 1970s
Margaret Thatcher
previewed Ronald Reagan surge for our election 79 his and 80
You know John major was a lot like poppy bush
You know Tony Blair was a lot like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama the
The the Tory establishment was a lot like the Republican House and Senate establishment in the mid to end the
2010s
UK voting for Brexit very much presaged and previewed Trump's election in 2016
So you but what do you see right now in the UK the three dominant parties for more than a century labor
Tories and liberal Democrats are by most public opinion surveys
Expected to not even meaningfully exist after the next parliamentary elections
They're going to be replaced by the Greens on the left and reform any and some other populist parties on the right
For the first time in modern UK well over a century of UK history
So that suggests to me that we may be in the same position. We were in say 1828 or
1860
The where you have a whole new party suddenly surge out of the blue out of the ashes of a dead political establishment
And I think what I'm most in we already tested at 1776 law center amongst voters who recognize the name
Thomas Massey is getting close to 20% of the vote as an independent third-party candidate in
2028 already and that's what half the country not even knowing who he is
That's the appetite for an independent third-party challenge somebody who will break this two-party duopoly
I think you will see and I think the most likely
Candidates because of America's tough ballot action access laws
I've litigated that for 25 years for various independent third-party candidate
The easiest way to do it would be for the left to join the Greens and elevate them and for the left populist on that side
And the right populist to take over and the anti-war crowd to take over the libertarians
The the key is whether that can happen. I mean you've been part of those inside battles
So there's a bunch of us working together right now that on that popular side
That want to really reinvigorate the anti-war anti-banking establishment anti-federal reserve
These anti, you know Wall Street concentration of power all of these institutions that are degrading America's
Constitutional Republic and are an imminent threat to that constitutional Republic real accountability on COVID in deep state other aspects
That I think that's what you may see it may happen much faster than anybody could think possible
So I think 2028 it's gonna bring some revolutionary change or be the beginning
Trimmers of a political earthquake that five ten years from now Republican and Democratic parties may not even exist in their modern form. I
Guess I misled you when I said the last thing I want to give you a minute or two to talk about the 1776 Law Center. Oh
It's meant to be kind of a counterpoint to the ACL use of the world and the corporate establishment types
So 1776 Law Center you can find it 1776 law center calm is
Designed to defend people about the court of public opinion and get lawyers and advocates to represent people in the courts of law
On issues of public policy on issues where their cases or causes are have a broader importance than them
And where they do not have the economic means or political
Patriotage to be able to get the attention of the court of public opinion or effective advocacy in court
So this includes food freedom
We represent Amos Miller and a bunch of Amish farmers who are you know trying to state your right to buy food directly from the farmer
Without getting a government permission slip in advance. We've been
Promoting these ideas and at the state local and federal level in terms of actual policy changes in reforms as well
The Sam medical freedom is another big one representing people who are wrongfully mandated the COVID vaccine
Who were who were discriminated against for religious and other reasons related to their objections to the COVID vaccines
Trying to establish the precedent that big pharma should be held liable when their vaccines cause injury
The that nobody should be immune or above the law in that context
So a wide range of issues connected to medical freedom the on political freedom
This is opposing censorship opposing everything connected to censorship whether it's related to some dumb war or or some bad policy like
COVID and
Advocating for a range of clients in that context
But also public advocacy changes and then financial freedom advocating for you know unleashing Bitcoin
auditing the Federal Reserve
Not allowing banks to discriminate against people based on their political beliefs when these are politically protected utilities
Privileged at a major level by state and federal governments particularly the federal government
So, you know reinstating all form, you know having true free market enterprise
So there isn't these big antitrust monopolies that are anti competitive and strip us of our free market liberties and rights
So we recommend and we represent all those different constituencies everybody from Kyle written out to the Covington kids from Alex Jones
To Amos Miller. So you can support it. We're doing a big fundraiser up at the we're gonna do an Amish outing
People come Amos Miller's farm enjoy the food have a picnic see the farm meet the family go on little buggy rides all that jazz
On my birthday is a fundraiser for 1776 law center being get all that information 1776 law center dot com
All right, 1776 law center calm. I'll have it linked at Tom Woods comm slash 2744
Robert Barnes
Glad to be in whatever this crazy fight is
Together with you didn't think we'd have to find we thought we won this fight
Didn't think we have to keep fighting it over again against the very people
We thought had won it with us, but here we are. Thanks so much Robert. Absolutely glad to be here and thank you ladies and gentlemen
Make yourself and those you love less vulnerable to the regime both mentally and physically
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